WWE needs to reevaluate the way they portray their faces and heels

[Andy]

This is something that's been bothering me for a while. With WWE still firmly in the PG era, faces and heels have been portrayed to us as pretty much black or white for years. It's pretty much face and heel 101 booking. Good guys are funny/tough/brave etc, heels are arrogant/cowardly/vicious etc. This is backed up by the commentators, with Cole especially shoving down our throat who we should be backing and who we should be against.

In the last couple of years though, two things seem to have changed. Firstly, WWE seem to have changed up how they portray some of their heels and faces. Sheamus is the prime example here. He turned faced quite organically as a guy who was tough and just loved to fight. As the character evolved though, he just became a bully. Actively humiliating and attacking the supposed heels. Was this WWE's attempt to create a more edgy character? On the other hand, you have guys like Cody, Ziggler and Bryan, who didn't change their characters at all, but WWE flipped the switch and now Cole et al are continually telling us how great they are. Now I don't have an issue cheering these guys, and neither do the fans. But that's because they're excellent in the ring and charismatic. They connect with the audience and make people care. With Ziggler and Cody especially, they're still demonstrating the characteristics that up until recently WWE told us were a bad thing.

This brings me on to my next point. The fans seem to be able to see through this no problem these days, and more and more often we see the fans chant for the heels. Cody and Ziggler were getting very strong reactions from the crowd and so they were turned. Ziggler did very well but WWE seem to have dropped the ball on him. A mixed tag at Summerslam? Boring. The jury is still out on Cody, as much as I like the guy he is acting like an arse hole at the moment. The Bryan turn is the only one that has been done to perfection.

This leads me to think two things. One - WWE aren't able to create a truly compelling face in the PG era. PG era faces are boring to the majority of fans, plain and simple. And so...two - WWE needs to reevaluate how they portray their faces and heels. Instead of forcing these characters down our throats as heel or face, let us decide. Don't dilute the popular guys once they become popular, let them keep doing the things that made them popular. And on the other end of the scale, don't go overboard like they have with Sheamus. The reaction he got when Cena called his name while deciding on the number one contender was laughable. Your number two face in the company heavily booed because they've turned him into such a prick.

So how would you solve this conundrum? It's certainly a tricky one. I feel like there is some middle ground to be found between the current protocol and simply leaving it up to the fans. Some turns can be very well worked, like the Cody and Ziggler ones. It's following that up that needs to be done more effectively. These guys need to maintain the arrogance without becoming ass holes. Maintain what makes them unique and not drift into standard good guy territory.

I really feel like they need to find a solution to this as soon as possible. The reason I say this is because of The Shield and The Wyatts. The Shield are getting decent reactions and not a huge amount of heat at the moment. Why? Because they're great in the ring, they've been putting on brilliant matches, and attacking people that a lot of people want to see them attack like Orton, Sheamus and Cena. The Wyatts are meant to be these strong heels but they're already getting cheered because they've been fucking brilliant. With such a strong pool of talent waiting to be called up, they need to sort this out before they have a roster full of heels getting cheered, boring faces no one cares about and attempted heel and face turns all over the place.

DISCUSS

[Beer-Belly]

Sheamus isn't THAT big of a prick. He occasionally takes cheapshots and he stole ADR's car, but his actions were reactions to heels being jerks.

[ANT]

I thought Sheamus was hilarious.

I think expecting all faces to act a certain way is the problem. Ziggler still kept some of the things that make him Ziggler so I'm cool with it. Some faces aren't meant morally right. They could just be guys you want see kick ass.

[VHS]

The way WWE writes faces and heels is ass-backwards and has been for a very long time IMO. The "good guys" have become so overpowering that we never get the impression that the heels have a snowballs chance in hell of winning clean... or at all for that matter. Anybody going up against John Cena... hah, good luck. Randy Orton? Very slim chance. Sheamus? Lord.

There's been a tremendous lack of suspense when it comes to good overcoming evil within WWE, because if a heel is going into a match with zero credibility against somebody like... Kofi Kingston... then there's no surprise when he loses. I've been a firm believer that heels should be the ones that possess the credibility, confidence, and power to win on their own; not the other way around.

[Beer-Belly]

Also, the crowd booed everyone not named Daniel Bryan when Cena was making his decision. Sheamus got a poor response, but I'd say that has more to do with him being a "smilin' babyface" than his dickhead antics.

[Bennedy]

To be honest, the Sheamus being a prick thing has been way overblown on here.

He isn't booed because he is prick, he is booed because he is fucking boring.

[Gangers]

That's not true, they cheered Jericho, RVD and to some extent, Orton. What you said is still right though, it's because he's boring and overexposed.

[Andy]

I don't think Sheamus is particularly boring. He's always had something going on and it's always backed up by good matches. I mean the stuff with Henry was interesting, but he acted the heel in that feud. That along with Cole pretty much wanking over him and it's no wonder the fans turned on him.

[wardy]

Also, the crowd booed everyone not named Daniel Bryan when Cena was making his decision.
This. There's no point in looking to the reactions the other guys got that night. The fans only booed because they wanted it to be Bryan.

[Cewsh]

I don't think it can understated that the crowd reactions seem to vary hugely depending on what part of the country they're in these days. It's like the United States has broken back up into territories, only with audiences instead of promotions.

[Mark Hammer]

Good OP but Sheamus is tailor-made to be a heel. There's nothing they could do with him that would make him a decent face. "Turning" him was simply lazy booking on WWE's part.

[VHS]

Sheamus could be a great face some day, it's just the way he's been portrayed has been underwhelming. I've no doubt with the right direction he could be one of WWE's top guys sooner than later.

[Andy]

I don't agree with that at all. He turned pretty organically if I remember correctly. He was a heel and started getting cheered more and more for being a badass who loved to fight. Then they went overboard with it which not only caused him to lose his edge but also made him a bully and a terrible face. Had they kept it more simple it may have gotten stale too, by he probably wouldn't have had people turning on him.

[Version 6]

I don't think there's anything wrong with having characters who are completely virtuous, completely morally corrupt or somewhere in between.

Where the thinking needs to change is the assumption that the WWE can or should control which reactions those characters will get. Or that it can get the entire audience to feel a certain way. With so much of the audience being connected away from the shows (on social media and places like this) outside of the WWE's control it's inevitable that they will/have lost the ability to control reactions. I think they just need to roll with that.

[Andy]

Exactly.

As I said, there should be some middle ground. A turn like the one they gave Cody was necessary, because the guy was just getting lost in the shuffle and wasn't given a chance to get the fans on board. But when you get fans booing Sheamus he shouldn't be turned instantly, let him roll with it and see what happens.

Another interesting guy is CM Punk. The stuff that guy did to Taker was about as heel-ish as you can get but people still cheer because he is just awesome. There were duelling Taker/Punk chants at Mania for gods sake. Luckily they've turned him without making him lose his edge again yet.

[The Law]

I don't think there's a huge problem. Not all the faces should be 100% good guys, not all the heels should be 100% bad guys. Sheamus was annoying the last few months, but he was fine before that. You have a scale of faces ranging from John Cena (totally virtuous) to Randy Orton (complete bastard). Most guys just kind of fall in the middle and are generally virtuous, but there are some guys like Kane and Daniel Bryan that have some edge to them.

I also always feel the need to point out that while smart fans might not like him, Sheamus is extremely over with the vast majority of WWE's fans. He consistently gets a great reaction. If they want him to continue playing face, it would be really easy for him to just be less of a dick (unlike how he acted during the Henry and Sandow feuds).

[MMH]

Of course Sheamus has been a complete prick! What shows have you lot been watching?

The Sandow stuff was staggeringly bad, he beat up Sandow because he beat him in a match and because he outsmarted him a couple of times.

He is a complete arsehole and its annoying as he makes a great heel. He actually could make a great babyface too but not how they have booked him. Hes like a whiny petulent child who lashes out when he doesnt get his own way.

[The Rogerer]

I think people are quite happy to be amoral. I think Total Divas is actually a signpost of how attitudes have changed. There's no-one to really root for in that show - both Bellas are still clearly heels, even though you see a nicer side of Brie they're still antagonistic as a couple. The Funkadactyls come across as maniacs and Nattie is portrayed as a complainer, meanwhile the WWE looks terrible for pulling them without notice, relegating Nattie without any consideration, etc. So people seem to be lapping it up even though it's essentially a stream of bad things happening to dicks.

The face turns recently have been good examples of boredom turns - CM Punk and Ziggler, where people have every right to be popular, but then they haven't really fully earned their transition. Del Rio had the same problem, even though he was doing a good job. One of the biggest tells for me was when Kane put Bryan in the chokeslam and people were cheering it on - maybe hoping for a split, but the appreciation is definitely much more meta and smart than it used to be.

Cody Rhodes is a good example of a face that has been far more antagonistic than the heel. Sheamus is another one. Taking a guy out isn't really a good move unless there's a really high amount of tension or there's been a big build up to it.

[the_man_diva]

As someone pointed out above, a lot of it has to do with heels lacking A LOT of credibility. Like, I think AJ has been the only heel really showcased as intelligent and dangerous as of late. The great thing is, she's the Divas Champion and now you can build up Kaitlyn more so people will really like her once she topples AJ. That's how most of the booking should happen, remember people going apeshit over Batista finally beating Triple H. for the title ... or when Cena finally beat JBL at WrestleMania 21? If the heels were booked a bit better, and if the top babyfaces weren't so overpowering, I think this could actually be fixed ... it all comes down to suspense; things are so predictable, it's a little boring.

And therein lies the biggest problem. The fans immediately will cling to and cheer for that "breath of fresh air," right now, those "breaths" are the Wyatt Family and The Shield. WWE is only bringing in new talent if they have long term plans for them and debuting them in such memorable fashions, that I really wish they would take the time to maybe go back and fix some of the people that they kind of rushed onto the main roster without any real clear thought on WHAT to do with them (Sheamus was rushed in pretty quick and pushed to the top, Kofi has held a lot of titles and had some great matches but hasn't had a memorable storyline EVER, etc.).

[chatty]

It would help if the faces sold more. They have near all the main event scene faces no sell everything so much that the heels look like they have the uphill battle.

Even in the Hogan days they had him get the shit kicked out of him (even if via cheapshots, dirty tactics, multiple men) in the build up and then have him overcome adversity when the pair collided. Obviously not every feud was built like that and its a lot harder when they have to wrestle 3 times a week on tv to get the balance but guys like Orndorf, Piper, Andre, Savage, Warrior, Slaughter, Taker, Dibiase, Boss Man, Earthquake fucking Zeus and Dino Bravo were all made to look like legit threats to him even if you did know he was likely to win the majority of his feuds.

Has anyone thought Ryback, Ziggler or Henry were legitimate threats to Cena.

[Cewsh]

I think that that's a misrepresentation brought on by nostalgia. None of those guys were real threats to Hogan, and if you go back and read the sheets of the day, nobody regarded them as such.

I'm absolutely certain that to the kids watching today, these guys ARE genuine threats to Cena.

[The Rogerer]

Those guys are spread out over a very long period of time.

[The Law]

Lots of guys have been made to look like legitimate threats to Cena. Generally, the way they did it by having him get beaten by them for the title. He lost the belt to Edge, RVD, Orton, Sheamus, Batista, Punk, and Del Rio. Other guys who were real threats to him: Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Bobby Lashley, Big Show, JBL, Miz. Cena has lost a lot over the years for a guy who is supposedly invulnerable.

Comparatively, Hogan lost the title four times during his big run in the 80s and 90s. Andre, Warrior, Taker, Yokozuna. Of everyone else he crossed paths with, who was a legitimate threat to beat him?

I think the real difference here is that most of us either weren't watching wrestling when Hogan was champion, or were kids. When you're a kid and don't really understand how wrestling works, it's easy to be convinced that someone is a real threat to your favorite good guy. As an adult, you grasp how wrestling works and that Cena is going to lose the title to Ryback or Mark Henry right after he's won it. And I think Daniel Bryan is a pretty clear threat.

[Cewsh]

Yeah, they have clearly built Bryan as a person you can't be sure of, and Cena is on the defensive.

[Beer-Belly]

Assuming WWE doesn't swerve us at Summerslam, where do they go after the "Bryan wins before Orton cashes in and punts him" scenario? Presumably they would do a triple threat at Night of Champions, but what about after that? I keep seeing people talk about Bryan chasing Orton for the title in the fall, however I'm skeptical that WWE would have a championship feud without Cena's involvement at this point. I just have a bad feeling that Bryan's momentum is going to be squandered in all of this. The only thing I can come up with that could segue into an Orton/Cena feud while still keeping Bryan in a prominent angle is to have Triple H screw him over in the hypothetical triple threat. I don't give a shit about seeing Cena vs. Orton again, but Bryan feuding with the McMahon family has the potential to be entertaining and it would keep him relevant. Bryan kicking Vince's head in and making Triple H tap while Stephanie cries at ringside sounds like tremendous fun.

[chatty]

It could be nostalgia.

I wasn't convinced about Bundy or Sid ever but Andre was a huge name (sure he wasn't going over at Mania but it was a believable threat that he could do it, Warrior did go over and hardly ever lost, Savage was not on Hogans level but was good enough to pull a long winded and brilliant story of with him, Earthquake squashed him and sent him packing for a while, Zeus may have been nostalgia, all I can remember is a massive angry fella, can't remember the build up all that much other than that shot movie they did.

As I said, its different because they weren't on TV constantly and feuds dragged out longer but all those heels (except Zeus) had more credibility going into a match than the majority of Cena's opponents do.

Maybes half the problem is that they are playing to loads of different ge ranges and struggle to find a balance in the main event scene.

[chatty]

Assuming WWE doesn't swerve us at Summerslam, where do they go after the "Bryan wins before Orton cashes in and punts him" scenario? Presumably they would do a triple threat at Night of Champions, but what about after that? I keep seeing people talk about Bryan chasing Orton for the title in the fall, however I'm skeptical that WWE would have a championship feud without Cena's involvement at this point. I just have a bad feeling that Bryan's momentum is going to be squandered in all of this. The only thing I can come up with that could segue into an Orton/Cena feud while still keeping Bryan in a prominent angle is to have Triple H screw him over in the hypothetical triple threat. I don't give a shit about seeing Cena vs. Orton again, but Bryan feuding with the McMahon family has the potential to be entertaining and it would keep him relevant. Bryan kicking Vince's head in and making Triple H tap while Stephanie cries at ringside sounds like tremendous fun.

They could have Cena pulled away from the title scene again I suppose, maybe do another match with Brock, maybes have him in some sort of angle with The Shield, possibly The Wyatts.

Cena's in a tough spot with the company at present because he's by far the biggest draw for them and the main man yet you get the feeling that even the writers are bored of him and dont have much to do. He seems to be on Raw in the middle these days unless in a match, I think they've lost the will to be creative with him. I think they are finding him as stale as we are but they can't do much unless they gamble on changing his dynamic.

They seem to just do the same thing a lot and then hope some chemistry forms along the way as it did with Punk.

Can't really blame anyone, they've done the same story with him for ten years.

[Cewsh]

Maybes half the problem is that they are playing to loads of different age ranges and struggle to find a balance in the main event scene.

I think that's exactly what it is.

WWE is the first wrestling promotion that systematically attempts to appeal to every possible wrestling fan all at once. It's an impossible task.

[Andy]

That's an interesting theory on Cena. I mean, who's left for him after Bryan?

He's feuded with every single mid or upper carder around now. Who hasn't he feuded with that might be viable? Sandow? I can't think of anyone else. And obviously I can see why they're keeping him away from The Shield and Wyatts at the moment.

Bar part time feuds with Taker or Brock, I don't see much left for Cena to do.

[The Law]

Repeat feuds. He hasn't faced Orton since 2009. He still has unfinished business with Punk, even after finally beating him in February. He hasn't faced babyface Punk since 2011. He never had much of a program with Del Rio, so that's a direction they could go. He hasn't worked with Sheamus in several years, so that could happen once Sheamus comes back. If they wanted to reach, RVD and Cena worked well together back in the day. Christian and Cena were briefly involved with each other in 2005 and haven't touched since. The roster is so deep right now that there's really no shortage of possibilities.

Also, I think a bigger issue right now is the fact that very few heels on the roster actually get any heat. I feel like Paul Heyman is the only guy who actually gets people to boo him. We've entered such a post-modern era that the crowd just automatically cheers any heel that does a good job.

[Beer-Belly]

Have the Wyatt clan try to intimidate some Make A Wish kids. I'm pretty sure everyone would root for Cena if he saved dying children.

[Andy]

Also, I think a bigger issue right now is the fact that very few heels on the roster actually get any heat. I feel like Paul Heyman is the only guy who actually gets people to boo him. We've entered such a post-modern era that the crowd just automatically cheers any heel that does a good job.

Hit the nail on the head. Even Heyman gets cheered in certain places and I can only see that growing as long as he's doing such an awesome job.

And that's why Cole etc need to stop insulting our intelligence and telling us exactly who to cheer and why, otherwise this dynamic is going to continue to grow.

[DaSaintFan]

Also, I think a bigger issue right now is the fact that very few heels on the roster actually get any heat. I feel like Paul Heyman is the only guy who actually gets people to boo him. We've entered such a post-modern era that the crowd just automatically cheers any heel that does a good job.

I think Law hit it with the last statement

Heyman, AJ, and Vicki are about it. Hell, the last few days before they let Vicki change from GM of Raw to Smackdown, she was performing all sorts of "Face" GM actions... but the fans continued to boo her (loudly) on tv.

As Law noted, if a heel can wrestle or cut a promo, he actually gets cheered (and the fans see them as "faces" now). Wyatt's character is the one that comes to mind. That character is designed to be a heel with no ifs, ands, or buts. Everything they do is an "evil" act. They beat the hell out of two characters designed to be loved by kids (Tons of Funk), they beat the hell out of Kane, they beat the hell out of R-Truth.

But what happens? He gets cheered when he goes into his promo routine.

Punk did everything in his power during his heel run to get crowds to boo him, but they only time they would was when Heyman was with him. (I mean honestly, I can't even add Brock to the "hated" heels list.)

Add in the IWC smarks, who 'cheer' for any heel who beats down the 'big star' (Cena), and you can see why heels aren't the heat magnets in the standard dichotomy.

Ironically, Cena's the one guy that gets it (I'd probably put Punk in here)... Half the people are going to hate him, half the people are going to love him, no matter what. So why change what he does? I'd say Mark Henry and Big Show are two others that get it as well.

[chatty]

They even tried the racist gimmick with Swagger and had some crowds cheering him:usa:

[The Law]

Zeb actually got some heat on Monday by ripping the Packers. Great as he is, he really hasn't gotten him, Swagger, or Cesaro any heat thus far.

[Andy]

That's because WWE fans don't care about politics and Jack Swagger is the most boring wrestler in history.

Haha I forgot about Vickie, who would've thought she'd be the only one in the company who has no problem getting huge heat from any crowd. What a woman.

[VHS]

That's because WWE fans don't care about politics and Jack Swagger is the most boring wrestler in history.


This can blend into the "what irks me" thread. What irks me is when people post overstated criticisms.

[Cewsh]

This can blend into the "what irks me" thread. What irks me is when people post overstated criticisms.

No offense, VHS, but you do that quite often yourself.

[Andy]

It irks me when people don't understand sarcasm.

[Mark Hammer]

This can blend into the "what irks me" thread. What irks me is when people post overstated criticisms.

It irks me when jobbers get too big for their britches.