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Slare
July 25th, 2013, 11:16 AM
What are the little things (or big for that matter) that really annoy you in wrestling.

I'm talking about the things that most people might not even notice but they really put you off or take you out of a match/segment?

Could be something they've been doing forever or a trend that's just started recently.

For me right now, it's the whole 'wrestler a is distracted so much in ring by wrestler b having their music played that they completely forget that they're having a match and get rolled up and beat'.

This benefits absolutely nobody. The guy in the ring looks like an absolute idiot. The winner gets a cheap and pointless win, and the guy who's music is being played gets absolutely no heat for it because he very rarely appears. Just totally backwards booking and something that pops up far too often now.

OK GO

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 11:22 AM
The announcers talking about anything but the show in front of them and the context behind it.

This takes a lot of forms. From JBL inserting some kind of political debate into every Cesaro/Swagger match instead of actually talking about the fucking match or storyline, to having to be told that Shelton Benjamin grew up on the "mean streets" every time he does a suplex. It's commentary clutter, and it distracts from the narrative in play.

Psycho666Soldier
July 25th, 2013, 11:28 AM
Wrestlers that fall in an unbelievable direction after a strike. For example, when Del Rio kicked Sheamus' head on the turnbuckle on Monday, and instead of falling out the ring or at least flailing that way, he falls forward. It makes no sense and can take me out of the match a bit. It frustrates me to no end!

Plenty more, but that's the first thing that popped up other than what both of you already suggested.

The Law
July 25th, 2013, 11:38 AM
Generally ref bumps. It's almost always lazy booking, it's almost never convincing, and it's so incredibly contrived. It's one thing if the referee gets kicked in the head, which could actually knock someone out. It's another when they just get run into, or sandwiched in the corner. And then they're down while whatever happens in the ring happens, but they wake up just in time to count the pin.

Champions losing non-title matches. If there's a real reason for it, like to set-up a match against the person who beat them, it's fine. But a few months ago they were just having all of the champions lose on TV almost every week for no reason. All it did was sap their credibility. I also don't like when they have a midcard champion lose to a main eventer. There's just no reason for the match. Book someone else in there.

Guys always winning with the same move. I understand why the concept of the finisher is appealing, but I don't like that guys can only win with their finisher or a cheap roll-up. Sometimes guys should bust out something different and win with it. Or win with one of their signature moves. Randy Orton's Elevated DDT would make a perfectly fine finsher. Or Miz's Snap DDT while his opponent is on their knees. Del Rio should sometimes win with the Superkick, Ziggler with the FameAsser, Punk with the Flying Elbow. That would add a lot of drama to matches, knowing that those secondary moves could potentially finish the match.

The Rogerer
July 25th, 2013, 11:39 AM
Big Show's headbutts. The state of the commentary table and how much it descends into stilted bickering. Too much playing of entrance music at times, especially where an entrance seems to outlast the match. The fact that everyone has to roll about the ring for 5 minutes after they've lost a match.

JP
July 25th, 2013, 11:40 AM
Recently, blatant spot calling has started to really do my nut in.

Kdestiny
July 25th, 2013, 11:41 AM
Bad Selling.

my number one example is John Cena but it happens more than it should.

Chris
July 25th, 2013, 11:46 AM
A complete lack of continuity. For example, questioning whether a wrestler can perform a move on another wrestler when we've already seen him do it before. You can question that sort of thing in terms of match fatigue, but too often the announcers try to make out that it's never happened before. Same with stating that no-one has ever kicked out of a certain move or that a variation on a move has never been seen before when it actually has.

Wrestlers who start off promos by telling us their names, despite the fact that they've been around for ages. Randy Orton was the most guilty of this several years ago.

Andy
July 25th, 2013, 11:49 AM
Yeah this entrance music playing during matches has done my head in recently.

Champions losing all the time.

Poor midcard booking.

Lack of Heath Slater.

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 11:49 AM
Guys always winning with the same move. I understand why the concept of the finisher is appealing, but I don't like that guys can only win with their finisher or a cheap roll-up. Sometimes guys should bust out something different and win with it. Or win with one of their signature moves. Randy Orton's Elevated DDT would make a perfectly fine finsher. Or Miz's Snap DDT while his opponent is on their knees. Del Rio should sometimes win with the Superkick, Ziggler with the FameAsser, Punk with the Flying Elbow. That would add a lot of drama to matches, knowing that those secondary moves could potentially finish the match.

That one would be an extremely tough sell in WWE. Viewers have been conditioned for 30 years that finishers and roll ups are the only things that win matches. They won't respond properly to anything else without having to be reducated and a lot of matches ending flat in the meantime.

Andy
July 25th, 2013, 11:52 AM
A lot of guys have two legit finishers though which is good.

Cena - STF/AA
Punk - GTS/AV
Sheamus - Brogue/Cloverleaf
Del Rio - Arm Bar/Superkick

I'm sure there's loads more.

Tainted Eclipse
July 25th, 2013, 11:52 AM
the weak looking, awkward finishers WWE has been giving its newer guys lately. ryback, ambrose, axel, big e (im sort of coming around to this move, as in not hating as much rather than starting to like it at all). its something wwe's basically always done, but i guess is more noticable now because they've been more successful using the new guys they've been bringing in.

InsertItHere
July 25th, 2013, 11:53 AM
I hate when the announce team (mainly Michael Cole) yells something like "WHAT AN UPSET" or "THIS HAS TO BE IT" when a wrestler goes for a pin attempt. It's almost always in a circumstance where any doubt about whether the person will kick out is removed, because the person always kicks out. It just takes some drama out of the big spots for me.

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 11:55 AM
A lot of guys have two legit finishers though which is good.

Cena - STF/AA
Punk - GTS/AV
Sheamus - Brogue/Cloverleaf
Del Rio - Arm Bar/Superkick

I'm sure there's loads more.

Submission finishers are definitely the classic exception. It makes sense for each guy to have one of each.

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 11:56 AM
the weak looking, awkward finishers WWE has been giving its newer guys lately. ryback, ambrose, axel, big e (im sort of coming around to this move, as in not hating as much rather than starting to like it at all). its something wwe's basically always done, but i guess is more noticable now because they've been more successful using the new guys they've been bringing in.

I've never really gotten why people are so down on Big E's finisher. The other ones I definitely get, since everything is some kind of neckbreaker now.

http://i.imgur.com/s3kfW.gif

Impactful, safe, and he can do it on anyone at anytime.

The Rogerer
July 25th, 2013, 11:58 AM
the weak looking, awkward finishers WWE has been giving its newer guys lately. ryback, ambrose, axel, big e (im sort of coming around to this move, as in not hating as much rather than starting to like it at all). its something wwe's basically always done, but i guess is more noticable now because they've been more successful using the new guys they've been bringing in.This is a good shout, I've complained about it before. White Noise just seems like such an awkward positioning to try and get someone into a shape that no-one has used before. Ziggler is easily going to fly completely past someone trying to do a Zigzig. The GTS is a great move when it hits, but can so easily look like rubbish.

I am a big fan of the Big Ending though.

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 11:59 AM
We should do a thread about which finishers work, honestly.

Andy
July 25th, 2013, 12:03 PM
I can't think of many guys who have two regular finishers that aren't a submission and something else.

Taker - Tombstone/Chokeslam (could add Last Ride I guess but he's not used that in years)
Big Show - KO Punch/Chokeslam

Anyone else?

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 12:06 PM
You could LOOSELY say that Jericho has the Lionsault, the Walls and the Codebreaker, but I don't think the Lionsault has won a match since Bill Clinton was in office.

The Rogerer
July 25th, 2013, 12:24 PM
If you want a man who went through a mixture of finishers, Edge's solo career is one to watch. I think he was changing them every week at one point.

Slare
July 25th, 2013, 12:25 PM
Implant DDT, Falling sitting back thing, weird sharpshooter thing, spear, I'm sure there were more?

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 12:27 PM
I think you mean the Edgecution, the Edge O'Matic and the Edgucator, good sir.

The Rogerer
July 25th, 2013, 12:29 PM
Figure Four Edge Lock, and he was using the Downward Spiral, and also the spear.

Hero!
July 25th, 2013, 12:31 PM
Don't forget the weird double dropkick with Mysterio

VHS
July 25th, 2013, 12:47 PM
When a superstar is ... distracted. We've seen it a million times when two superstars are going at it, somebody comes out and diverts somebody's attention, they lose in the next move. It's become way too overused.

Atty
July 25th, 2013, 12:53 PM
Cena.

Hero!
July 25th, 2013, 12:54 PM
The lack of use for lower card guys gets on my tits. I understand, not everyone can be on the show, but when's the last time JTG, Yoshi Tatsu, or Justin Gabriel had a match on RAW? Bring them out on every few weeks so the fans don't forget who they are. Or...give them a little push?

I really feel like Main Event needs a TV title. No need to have the thing defended on RAW, but create a little division over on Main Event and when you need to use someone for a little 10-minute match to get someone over, bringing the TV champion on would be great. The midcard belts are just props, but a third-tier title could have some use, if used correctly.

JP
July 25th, 2013, 1:05 PM
A TV Title foe ME is a great shout. :yes:

casselmm47
July 25th, 2013, 1:25 PM
When a superstar is ... distracted. We've seen it a million times when two superstars are going at it, somebody comes out and diverts somebody's attention, they lose in the next move. It's become way too overused.

To add onto this, when a superstar is in the ring talking, then someone's music hits and then the stupid WHU-WHU-WHU? look on their face as they whip their head around to see who's coming to the ring. Cena did this to Bryan at the top of last week's RAW, and it was cartoonish beyond belief.

chatty
July 25th, 2013, 1:30 PM
What seriously gets me everytime and its a nothing issue as well (adding to an earlier gripe) is am i meant to believe that when a guy is so pissed off that he is going to attack his foe, either in the middle of a match or just afterwards that he is so egocentrical that he's gonna make the trip to the promo truck to tell them to play his music and titantron. Either that or they have someone sitting in the guerrilla position waiting for them to walk to the ring and just playing the music whenever someone pops up there.

Wrestlers being filmed discussing something and then having us believe that there opponent hasn't got wind of their devious scheme even though its just been broadcast on live tv. or when they get secretly filmed by a moving camera that is obvious that there is a guy standing in front of them with a two foot long camera pointed at them.

No selling as mentioned.

Poor finishers as mentioned (although it don't bother me that much, i can suspend belief on this one easily enough).

Having most of the characters black and white, I understand why they do it but I liked it better when they were grey (or more of them were).

Mark Hammer
July 25th, 2013, 5:55 PM
Michael Cole. It is almost painful listening to him.

Mark Hammer
July 25th, 2013, 5:58 PM
Also the pitiful refs, who aren't afraid to get in a wrestler's face yelling like he just caught him stealing from him but gets knocked unconscious by a gust of wind. Chioda is horrible. So angry yet so weak.

WWE (and wrestling altogether) desperately needs to implement refs with a physical presence. Someone who could believably enforce the rules.

Mark Hammer
July 25th, 2013, 6:02 PM
That one would be an extremely tough sell in WWE. Viewers have been conditioned for 30 years that finishers and roll ups are the only things that win matches. They won't respond properly to anything else without having to be reducated and a lot of matches ending flat in the meantime.

That's no excuse. They can easily re-condition the fans not to expect the same tired routine.

The Rogerer
July 25th, 2013, 6:04 PM
Maybe the wrestlers just need to train themselves out of reacting to the music. My dog has started going mental any time you say "Who's that?" so I just make sure to say it every so often when there's nobody there and he'll eventually learn the phrase is meaningless.

Mark Hammer
July 25th, 2013, 6:05 PM
the weak looking, awkward finishers WWE has been giving its newer guys lately. ryback, ambrose, axel, big e (im sort of coming around to this move, as in not hating as much rather than starting to like it at all). its something wwe's basically always done, but i guess is more noticable now because they've been more successful using the new guys they've been bringing in.

The Cross Rhodes variation that everybody and his brother uses. Bray Wyatt has so much potential, why does he have to use the same weak-looking move?

turdpower
July 25th, 2013, 6:10 PM
The actual wrestling - it's just a choreographed dance that's a bit more painful than normal.

HHH hitting a sledgehammer in the most obviously painless way possible.

Kane's boiler mask

The fact that when Raw is in England, it isn't shown live

Taking the monitors out of announce tables before they are "used"

Having 3 commentators doing the job JR used to do.

The brand split

Paul Heyman not having his own music

Referees never accidentally counting 3 when it's very close to a kick out (this should happen alot)

The tag team division

The divas seem uglier than they were 10 years ago

The Undertaker only bothering to turn up once a year

The Rock not having his rematch for the title yet

HHH with short hair

Adverts in the middle of matches

WWE thinking anyone cares about the app

Fans that go to the event and are shit

Big E Langston

Any segment that includes a "contract signing"

When "police" are used in segments

Lack of Kevin Kelly

No wrestler just trying to do their finisher 3 times and then winning

Bennedy
July 25th, 2013, 6:13 PM
And just what is wrong with Big E Langston?

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 6:16 PM
That's no excuse. They can easily re-condition the fans not to expect the same tired routine.

Yeah, that's not true. You're talking about altering the way that wrestling matches fundamentally work and have for 30 years.

The WWE style is based heavily around building to a sequence of signiture moves, followed by an effective finisher. Virtually every great WWE main event match of this century has played heavily on the threat and danger of that one move, and way to counter it. Teaching fans that ANY move could end a match changes the very nature of this.

It took ten years of steady work to reeducate the fans to pop for any move that wasn't performed off of a ladder after the Attitude Era ended, and this change is much more fundamental to the WWE style. But that's not the reason it takes time, effort and resources to accomplish. You have to change the way your regular viewers watch your matches, but you also need to change the way new viewers watch them, and old viewers who only tune in time to time and are already ingrained with that prior idea of how things should be. And in the meantime, the matches will have trouble connecting on the same level as before while everyone adjusts.

Fundamental changes like that are hard. For you to suggest otherwise doesn't do your argument any credit.

turdpower
July 25th, 2013, 6:16 PM
He's a big fat fuckhead

Atty
July 25th, 2013, 6:16 PM
That one would be an extremely tough sell in WWE. Viewers have been conditioned for 30 years that finishers and roll ups are the only things that win matches. They won't respond properly to anything else without having to be reducated and a lot of matches ending flat in the meantime.

ADR won the belt off Ziggler with a kick.

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 6:18 PM
ADR won the belt off Ziggler with a kick.

Andy covered earlier in the thread that people having a submission AND an impact finisher are the exception. That's Del Rio's impact finisher.

Atty
July 25th, 2013, 6:22 PM
I'd never seen him use it to win before

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 6:22 PM
I'm not sure he had. But he's used it in that context since then. He's tried a few things, but he's never landed on a successful impact finisher before now.

Vice
July 25th, 2013, 6:26 PM
The Punk/Cena finish with the German suplex went over quite well.

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 6:31 PM
I was actually just sitting here thinking that another exception is for moves that are really spectacular in some way. Like that Super German Suplex was. Or Del Rio's kick on a concussed Ziggler who sold it like the grave.

Atty
July 25th, 2013, 6:34 PM
Jericho and Shawn beat each other with punches.

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 6:36 PM
Quoting a special example from 5 years ago isn't exactly disproving my point here. Those finishes are unique unto themselves, and aren't really what Law was talking about.

Vice
July 25th, 2013, 6:37 PM
Mark Henry beat Ryback by being fat.

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 6:38 PM
That sort of became his finisher for awhile for some reason. I wonder if that hurt his feelings?

Atty
July 25th, 2013, 6:45 PM
Quoting a special example from 5 years ago isn't exactly disproving my point here. Those finishes are unique unto themselves, and aren't really what Law was talking about.

Of course. Why would matches from five years ago count when one from a month ago doesn't? ;)

Mark Hammer
July 25th, 2013, 6:47 PM
Of course. Why would matches from five years ago count when one from a month ago doesn't? ;)

Especially when we're talking about "30 years of conditioning".

Cewsh is over-stating the importance of sticking to the norm and finishing every match in predictable fashion. It's ok to deviate from that formula every now and then and certainly won't result in some kind of catastrophe.

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 6:50 PM
Especially when we're talking about "30 years of conditioning".

Cewsh is over-stating the importance of sticking to the norm and finishing every match in predictable fashion.

I'm not going to keep on trying to explain my argument here, and I don't think I expressed in particularly well to start with. But being called out by Mark of all people on over stating things is certainly a wake up call.

Atty
July 25th, 2013, 6:51 PM
Cewsh just got Silvaed.

Mark Hammer
July 25th, 2013, 6:53 PM
I'm not going to keep on trying to explain my argument here, and I don't think I expressed in particularly well to start with. But being called out by Mark of all people on over stating things is certainly a wake up call.

Excellent rebuttal mate.

Atty
July 25th, 2013, 6:55 PM
Cewsh no want rematch?

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 6:56 PM
Excellent rebuttal mate.

It wasn't a rebuttal. My argument has holes in it that Atty and Vice made good points about. You came in to pile on and say that I am overstating things. That's a bit rich given your recent posts, but there's no real graceful way to concede an internet debate.

Mark Hammer
July 25th, 2013, 7:01 PM
I came in to pile on? This whole discussion stemmed from me quoting you.

Speaking of tired formulas, good look on resorting to personal attacks when you're backed into a corner have nothing intelligent to counter.

Atty
July 25th, 2013, 7:02 PM
Well, he did nail the knock out punch. I had forgotten the "30 years" bit.


Plus I love posting this
http://uploadir.com/u/m4ei4rku.gif

Mark Hammer
July 25th, 2013, 7:02 PM
Cewsh no want rematch?

He no hespecta nothing.

Tainted Eclipse
July 25th, 2013, 7:14 PM
I like the idea of guys being able to win matches with any number of their signature moves other than their proper "finisher" but it flies in the face of the WWE style of wrestling as WWE views it. WWE likes to very much "brand" wrestlers in part by what moves they use -- if one guy uses a powerbomb, they'd prefer that no one else on the roster ever use a powerbomb. Of course exceptions have happened but that's how it generally is, look at the lengths Cole has gone to on commentary a couple times in the past months to make sure everyone knows that when someone other than Reigns has hit a spear, that move is actually definitely NOT a spear. Plus WWE likes to put finisher names on wrestlers' t-shirts etc so it's pure marketing for them as much as anything else.

I do like the idea of guys being able to maybe beat people who are lower on the hierarchy than them with other moves. So maybe Punk beats Darren Young with the elbow drop in a RAW match, stuff like that. But mid carders beating each other with random moves from their move set week in and week out is EXTREMELY incongruous with the WWE style. Plenty of wrestling promotions have had styles where guys had finishers but could beat their opponent with any number of 'high impact' moves but it goes so far against WWE's fundamental philosophy as far as their in-ring product goes that they would NEVER do such a thing.

mr sabu
July 25th, 2013, 9:25 PM
stupid fans who only like there fav wrestler due to there looks instead of ability

Atty
July 25th, 2013, 9:31 PM
stupid fans who only like there fav wrestler due to there looks instead of ability

So, Cena fans?

Cewsh
July 25th, 2013, 9:41 PM
I came in to pile on? This whole discussion stemmed from me quoting you.

Speaking of tired formulas, good look on resorting to personal attacks when you're backed into a corner have nothing intelligent to counter.

I wasn't making personal attacks, Mark. You're prone to hyperbole. That's not news to anyone.

And I am perfectly willing to concede that the point I was trying to make wasn't fully thought out, and had a few holes in it. But it's a very real thing. If what we're talking about is moving away from guys having specific dedicated finishing moves to a more fluid kind of wrestling where anyone could win with anything, that would be a fairly enormous change to the formula in place for WWE matches. Formulas create expectations. Changing those expectations in people's minds is not as easy as you laid it out. I went wrong by delving into specific certainties which Vice and Atty rightly poked holes in. But your original statement that they could do it easily just isn't true.

Judas Iscariot
July 25th, 2013, 9:46 PM
The IWC irks me.

Version 6
July 25th, 2013, 9:54 PM
I hate the way that stables give promos. They stand in a line in perfect formation, each having their turn to speak. Sometimes they even step forward for their turn to speak and then step back in the line. It's horrendous and does nothing to project a natural camaraderie or chemistry.

The Horsemen, DX, and The Wolfpack during the original nWo run (for all it's faults) nailed the way stables should give promos bang on.

Oh and I also hate that thing the WWE did for a while of having a red spotlight in whatever room backstage Kane happened to be in. How fucking stupid.

Fanny
July 25th, 2013, 10:11 PM
I hate Zack Ryder, he's shit and a moany fucking arsehole. Fuck off already.

Kneeneighbor
July 25th, 2013, 10:11 PM
I hate how contrived the "619" and "Orton's DDT while the guy is in the ropes" are. How many ways can a guy fall and position himself in the ropes?

maxxmisery
July 25th, 2013, 11:54 PM
I hate the "both guys hit each other with a clothesline at the same time" move, and both are selling like death

I also hate, even more, the slingshot. The physics of that move are just lol

Mills
July 26th, 2013, 12:09 AM
I hate stop and go pushes and even Steven booking.
I also can't stand authority figures that abuse authority. I liked teddy longs run where he was a non affiliated gm

The Law
July 26th, 2013, 12:16 AM
How about the fact that everyone on the roster is a former world champion?

Okay, not everyone's a former world champion. But 21 guys on the current roster are (I used Wikipedia's list, which included part-timers like Rock, Triple H, and Undertaker). And if you want to count Vince McMahon, then it's 22. Remember how back in the 1980s and even until the late 1990s being a world champion was a rare honor, something that only the absolute elite members of the roster could claim? Not any more. Now practically any midcarder with heat has had a world championship at some point. It just makes it so much less meaningful that guys get the belt so soon in their careers. Ziggler winning the belt from Del Rio should have been his first championship, but instead he had already had that ten minute reign back in 2011. Jack Swagger, who in his entire career has never been over, is a former world champion.

I miss the days when guys would have great careers, be legends, and actually win world championships. Roddy Piper, Ted DiBiase, Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect, Ricky Steamboat, British Bulldog and more all had great careers in WWE, but never held a world championship (in WWE). If there had been two world title belts back then and they changed hands as often as they do now, those guys probably all would have been multiple time champions. And Hogan would have been like a 15 time WWF Champion.

Admittedly, they're doing a much better job of not moving the belts around as much, especially the WWE Championship (the past three WWE Championship reigns have encompassed over 20 months total, which is a record since Diesel/Bret/Shawn from 1994 to 1996). But I still think they should scrap the World Heavyweight Championship and use the Intercontinental Championship as the upper-midcard title. It has the lineage to be a prestigious championship like it was in the 1980s. The U.S. Title can be what the IC Title is right now, and they can create a Television Championship that is contested by up-and-comers and changes hands a lot (it would be defended every week, and often more than once). That way, only guys who are truly at the top would be "World Champions." The only downside to this is that the beautiful Big Gold Belt would have to be retired. Although if this is my fantasy world I would probably just use that as the WWE Championship.

Vice
July 26th, 2013, 1:39 AM
I hate how contrived the "619" and "Orton's DDT while the guy is in the ropes" are. How many ways can a guy fall and position himself in the ropes?

Rey's 619 shit wasn't tooooo bad when he was pretty much batting 100% with it back in the day. But for the past years, all of his matches tease it like 10 times, which means someone has to fall into that position that many fucking times. It's terrible. It's one thing to tease, say, the AA/GTS since it's just lifting the person up on your shoulders, but when the dude has to stumble 10 feet to fall onto the ropes it is just mind bogglingly retarded.

Andy
July 26th, 2013, 4:23 AM
Most of the time Orton actually drags someone into the ropes so that's not bad.

Another thing that irks me: the main page.

The Rogerer
July 26th, 2013, 4:25 AM
Pretending that the WHC is meaningful. It's a great division but its name is misleading. If John Cena won it now he would throw it in the bin.

El_Dandy
July 26th, 2013, 5:35 AM
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWY9lBZx5jlW3HUnH9tnIGl4bwWZF__ qXyS1N_jK7LlS2q-q40

AudioDynamite
July 26th, 2013, 6:15 AM
"Let's check what happened on the WWE app while we were on break"

son_of_foley
July 26th, 2013, 7:18 AM
Stupid numbers of near falls which lack any sort of believability that the match will end. Both guys often look like they are going through the motions. I think it would be really nice if the matches did end on some lesser moves occasionally too.

The amount of punches thrown. I think in terms of believability with kicks they are getting there. They hurt. Knife edge chops hurt and look real right but when we have people being punched 25 times in the face in the corner of the ring I think it takes away from it. The face they are open hand punches makes very little sense either. Rather than having people trading haymakers with no lasting effect wouldn't it be nicer if people had guards up and we blocking most of them?

Starting every show with a 15 minute promo. TNA are terrible for this atm. Why do we stick to the attitude era formula for the layout of a tv show. I would prefer the presenters to maybe have an actual card graphic on tv and rundown a few of the upcoming matches. If they want to do the social media thing etc then announce the card through the app or something like that. Of course you can still have promo time and all that but not every show needs Hulk coming down to talk bollocks or Cena or whoever.

Andy
July 26th, 2013, 7:26 AM
Loads of near falls are fine and they do make sense. It's just a shame none of the commentators ever bother to explain that it takes energy to kick out. Remember JR explaining why a wrestler would use a certain pinning combination based on the context of the match. Like if someone was working on the back, shoulder, arm they'd use a lateral press, work on the leg then they hook the leg.

Slare
July 26th, 2013, 7:36 AM
Just to back Cewsh up a little from the previous argument;

The reason that you all remember the non-finisher finishes so well is because they come so few and far between. Surely they are the few exceptions that prove the rules? And the majority of them come as part of an ongoing story (shawn/jericho and Del Rio/Ziggler) where the non finisher finish makes sense.

Thing is, they work incredibly well when utilized like this, so why don't we have more of it?

I think that's what Cewsh was getting at?

GeezaTap
July 26th, 2013, 8:54 AM
Multi-Man matches for the World Title, and to a lesser extent gimmick matches for the belt (outside of Cage/HIAC as it's meant to be about no interference, at least in theory).

For his first reign, Sheamus became the best wrestler in the world by putting a rapper through a table by accident. I know it served the story they were telling, but they should keep the World Title scene 1-on-1 with as few gimmicks as possible.

Mark Hammer
July 26th, 2013, 9:19 AM
I wasn't making personal attacks, Mark. You're prone to hyperbole. That's not news to anyone.

"I wasn't making personal attacks. Your ideas are stupid and everybody knows it."

I've never written your opinions off whether I agreed with them or not. I ask for the same in return.

kangus
July 26th, 2013, 9:21 AM
Wait, why did you quote him and then make up a different quote?

Slare
July 26th, 2013, 9:28 AM
Because he was taking his perception of the real meaning of what Cewsh said and employing a literally tool of repetition and change to emphasise his point.

Slare
July 26th, 2013, 9:28 AM
Because he was taking his perception of the real meaning of what Cewsh said and employing a literally tool of repetition and change to emphasise his point.

"Because he's a big meanie-head"

Cewsh
July 26th, 2013, 9:30 AM
When did I say you opinions were stupid? You exaggerate for effect often. It's just part of your posting style. This seriously isn't an insult, just an observation.

kangus
July 26th, 2013, 9:33 AM
When did I say you opinions were stupid? You exaggerate for effect often. It's just part of your posting style. This seriously isn't an insult, just an observation.

"MARK HAMMER IS THE STUPIDEST PERSON ON THE INTERNET"

Whoa, Cewsh, you need to settle down.

chatty
July 26th, 2013, 9:48 AM
Stupid numbers of near falls which lack any sort of believability that the match will end. Both guys often look like they are going through the motions. I think it would be really nice if the matches did end on some lesser moves occasionally too.

The amount of punches thrown. I think in terms of believability with kicks they are getting there. They hurt. Knife edge chops hurt and look real right but when we have people being punched 25 times in the face in the corner of the ring I think it takes away from it. The face they are open hand punches makes very little sense either. Rather than having people trading haymakers with no lasting effect wouldn't it be nicer if people had guards up and we blocking most of them?

Starting every show with a 15 minute promo. TNA are terrible for this atm. Why do we stick to the attitude era formula for the layout of a tv show. I would prefer the presenters to maybe have an actual card graphic on tv and rundown a few of the upcoming matches. If they want to do the social media thing etc then announce the card through the app or something like that. Of course you can still have promo time and all that but not every show needs Hulk coming down to talk bollocks or Cena or whoever.

I agree with both points. Punches used to be illegal which made more sense (even though they still used them) but you couldn't make it believable that these guys could trade Haymakers without knocking the other guy out, its known to everybody that that would happen but slaps wouldn't do much so yeah someone actually taking them on the arms would be the better way to do it as it would still hurt in real life and press you into a position but wouldn't straight up KO you.

Promo's are fine but they can be really predictable. You'll get a guy come out and talk complete shit while they wait for someone else to come out and pick a fight or attack them but would a big company really just let a guy walk out there to talk to the audience with no real reason. Maybe's it would be better if they had an in ring interviewer to make it feel a bit more natural.

Hero!
July 26th, 2013, 1:37 PM
Having 2 MITB briefcases, especially when each is title specific. When Edge won, you really had no idea which belt he was going after and no one had even thought that he'd cash in after a major beat down. Now, it's expected. Plus, it's hella less special when you have two guys who can do it, unless you have a really awesome occurrence where both men cash in on the same night. Having 2 briefcases gave us cool stuff like Bryan, Ziggler, and Miz's cash-ins, but at the same time, you had Del Rio, Cena, and Kane cash-in and those were all pretty shit. Kane & Cena can get a title match without the briefcase and Del Rio was awkwardly forced into the Punk/Cena title picture, where he had absolutely no business being involved. Like this year, we've got Sandow, who's cash-in moment is gonna be epic, but we've also got Orton, who really doesn't need the briefcase. Just a bit frustrating.

also, the number of 10-time champions is just ludicrous. Cena, Ege, and Orton all have 10+ world title reigns within 5-10 years of winning their first world title. Trips is at 13, which is fucking nuts in itself, but he's also been winning world titles since like 99 and I don't see him winning any more for the rest of his career. I do believe that WWE has seen the fault in this, which is why we're seeing more time between people's title reigns.

Hero!
July 26th, 2013, 1:40 PM
And I really want a new US title. Compared to all the other belts, it looks like shit. The world titles are massive gold/diamond belts that look like top titles, the diva and tag belts have unique looks, and the IC title has a cool retro thing going. The US title looks so out of place as it still looks like it belongs back on SD circa 2002.

VHS
July 26th, 2013, 1:50 PM
I think the US title looks fine... it's the Tag titles that need to be changed again. They look like cheap, giant pennies.

Hero!
July 26th, 2013, 1:56 PM
I like them more than any other tag belts we've had. I generally prefer round belts and they have a cool, unique look to them. Plus, I like that they aren't gold. Very, very different for wrestling championships.

Vice
July 26th, 2013, 4:22 PM
I actually dislike that they're copper, because it kind of goes along with them being shit, worthless titles. I would be fine with the world titles being gold while the IC/US titles are silver or something, since IC/US is basically "second best" (not really though). But tag titles still mean that you are the best at what you do, so you should get gold.

Hero!
July 26th, 2013, 4:45 PM
The copper bugged me at first, but the overall design with the gladiator helmets and cool shape sold me on the belts. Again, I just like bronze/copper as it further sets the belt apart from the other titles.

If we ever get a new US title, I wouldn't mind them using the WCW design, even though they probably never would. If anything, use one of those zany eagle-themed belt designs that they drafted up for the new WWE title.

Ochoa
July 26th, 2013, 6:55 PM
I don't like it whenever face wrestlers run out to attack their heel adversaries, only to not to go after them if they get away. A lot of guys will just wait in the ring as if they're being held back by a force field or something.

Mark Hammer
July 26th, 2013, 7:42 PM
Wait, why did you quote him and then make up a different quote?

Really?

Pipkin
July 26th, 2013, 7:49 PM
It bothers me to no end that Sheamus acts like such a dick constantly, even though he's supposed to be a good guy.

Atty
July 26th, 2013, 7:54 PM
Gimmick PPVS.

Pipkin
July 26th, 2013, 8:01 PM
That the grandson of Larry Hennig and the son of Curt Hennig isn't called Hennig.

Mark Hammer
July 26th, 2013, 9:04 PM
It bothers me to no end that Sheamus acts like such a dick constantly, even though he's supposed to be a good guy.

To add to this, when a wrestler is a good heel/terrible face, but still pushed as a face. Sheamus has no business as a babyface, it doesn't make any sense given both his appearance and his character.

The Law
July 26th, 2013, 9:46 PM
Sheamus would be fine as an ass kicker/loves to fight babyface, which is basically what he was up until a few months ago. This current dick character he's developed just doesn't work. I'm fine with guys being faces and not being straight-up good, but there's no reason to cheer the current version of Sheamus. He's just a big asshole who bullies people.

The lack of emphasis on tag team wrestling also irks me. We had a brief renaissance last year with Hell No, Rhodes Scholars, Mysterio/Cara, Primetime Players, and the rest. But that's already fallen apart. And we now have two tags teams on the roster with any credibility at all, and like three other total tag teams. We really haven't had a big time tag division in WWE since 2002 (the brief run of the Smackdown Six) and a long run of great tag teams since 1999-2002 (The Hardyz, Dudleyz, Edge and Christian, and the rest).

It's probably never going to be the 1980s again, where teams stayed together for years and years and the tag team titles were almost as prestigious as the WWF Championship. I just wish we could get some good tag teams together, not have them break up right away, and have some tag feuds that weren't for the tag titles. A non-title match between two real tag teams on a pay-per-view wold be absolutely awesome. I miss good tag team wrestling. WWF in the 1980s, WCW in the late 1980s and early 1990s, All Japan in the late 1990s, WWF in the early 2000s. Whatever happened to tag team wrestling?

Jimmy Zero
July 26th, 2013, 9:57 PM
What drives me up the wall is when a guy is doing a promo and he starts practically every statement with, "ya see..."

Tons of guys do it and it always pisses me off.

The Law
July 26th, 2013, 10:07 PM
Guys staring their promos with "My name is..." drives me fucking crazy. Seriously, 99% of the people watching the show know who you are, and the 1% that are new viewers can read the graphics on the screen during your entrance. Or listen when the announcers say your name. Also when wrestlers address each other by their full names. "John Cena, let me tell you..." "Listen to me, Randy Orton..."

Also the fact that Damien Sandow doesn't sing a song about his opponent to the tune of their entrance theme every week. It would be hard to pull off, but he'd absolutely be a main eventer if he did.

lotjx
July 26th, 2013, 10:16 PM
The WWE roster being sacrificial lambs to Cena. No matter what happens with the belt or a feud somewhere, somehow Cena is going to get involve and find a way to run it.

Hero!
July 26th, 2013, 10:34 PM
nah.

Mills
July 26th, 2013, 11:04 PM
I hate how they don't make their bigger, larger wrestlers a bigger deal. For example, if I'm a wrestler and the big show comes out as my opponent, I'd crap my pants. However, he's treated as just another wrestler

Atty
July 26th, 2013, 11:07 PM
To be fair, they usually build their big guys up like that until they lose to Cena.

Fanny
July 26th, 2013, 11:10 PM
Randy Orton is a piece of shit worthless dickhead

Fanny
July 26th, 2013, 11:11 PM
I hate face turns when a heel is automatically turned face due to another heel turning on them.

chatty
July 27th, 2013, 7:10 AM
What drives me up the wall is when a guy is doing a promo and he starts practically every statement with, "ya see..."

Tons of guys do it and it always pisses me off.
You know brother

The Rogerer
July 27th, 2013, 7:35 AM
I hate face turns when a heel is automatically turned face due to another heel turning on them.My wife didn't really get Del Rio's turn, and the tendency to turn people just because they go away and come back for a bit. Del Rio's turn eventually sinks in, but his turn was on Ziggler, who had enough bad karma that it was really his just desserts getting kicked in the head. Where is the redemption.

Atty
July 27th, 2013, 10:47 AM
I hate face turns when a heel is automatically turned face due to another heel turning on them.

I hate face turns where a heel gets really hot with the crowd and they neuter what made him over to become a generic face. This happened with Orton some years ago, where he was an absolute badass as a heel and one of the more fascinating characters they've had in a good long while. Suddenly he's face and isn't doing the crazy things that gave him his edge. They did the same with Punk following his face turn with Cena. After a couple months he became more generic until he wisely turned heel again. If the crowd cheers what you do, don't stop doing it.

Andy
July 27th, 2013, 11:54 AM
I think there's a wider issue there, and sooner or later WWE are going to have to evaluate how they present their superstars. There's no logical reason why fans should buy into the Cody/Sandow feud. Luckily Cody is good enough to pull off the face turn and make it work though. Similarly, fans are booing Sheamus now because they've gone too far in trying to make him a likeable ass kicker. Instead they've turned him into a complete arsehole bully.

Punk and Ziggler will get cheered regardless of whether they're meant to face or heel because they're just so good at what they do. I don't like it at all when Cole starts going on about how Sandow was wrong, Sheamus loves to fight, you gotta love Ziggler. It just doesn't make sense in the context of what these guys are doing and it's just trying to force the fans into seeing things as black or white, face or heel.

I think they'd be well served to stop trying to portray guys as clearly defined good guys or bad guys. Let them tell stories in the context of individual feuds. The talent is good enough to work the fanbase so they should let the grey areas shine through, let the fans decide who they want to root for in any given match or feud. At this stage I don't think they way they portray heel/face is sustainable.

Might be a thread worthy topic, may start it later.

BullyRayStoleMyLunch
July 27th, 2013, 12:02 PM
Right, channeling my inner Oscar The Grouch...

GMs = DOA. RIP

I am SICK of Authority Figures. Heel, you could never do any better than Vince, (though Bisch came close), and any face not named Mick Foley, circa 2001, is redundant in the role.

I don't want to see another 10 years of Cena valiantly overcoming the odds against whichever evil tyrant is running Raw at that point, because in 10 years time, they'll have gone through so many GMs, they'll probably have a fucking popcorn seller in the role.

Have somebody act in a "Jack Tunney" role - furtherimg a big storyline where need be, and limiting it to the MAJOR events. Less is more.

"I hate your guts... which is why I'm going to stand here and listen respectfully to every word you say."

Of course, I understand the reasoning behind the "taking turns" in a WWE in ring promo - it allows the fans to take in both sides, and further the story.

But, there are points where it REALLY bugs me.

If Wrestler A really hates Wrestler B that much, why is he content to stand there, let B verbally mock, insult, rip him a new one, while waiting patiently for B to finish, while maybe pulling a disapproving facial as his only sign of discontent? Especially as Wrestler A ALSO HAS A MICROPHONE IN HIS HANDS.

I'm not arguing that every feud needs to be a scream over each other clusterfuck. But with something like a Blood Feud, if you're presenting these guys as Mortal Enemies, then why would they wait for each other to finish their verbal onslaughts like they're on opposing debate teams? Takes me out of the moment.

"So Gentlemen, shall we scrap Survivor Series for Night Of Nasty No Countouts?

FUCK Gimmick PPVs.
Chamber is filling the spot that No Way Out used to use so well to build up Mania.
MITB needs to be ONE case, at Mania.
The Cell should be a feud ender, not "oh, its that time of the year, lets dust it off."
TLC, much the same, with the added note that coming in the same cycle as MITB, is ladder overload.

Justin Roberts at a spelling bee.

Justin, how do you spell John?

"JEEEEEE-YAAAAAAHN...."

Don't ever spell, or more importantly, SAY it like that again. Fucks me off something rotten.

Jaymz
July 27th, 2013, 12:10 PM
The brand split: Enforce it or lose it. It serves no fucking purpose because it's ignored on TV
The camerawork whenever The Shield attacks anyone: Seriously, it's borderline nauseating
Heel groups and factions vs. makeshift face groups: The Shield vs. Mark Henry & The Uso's? Really?
SERIOUS VOICES: Used far too often to describe injuries that are life threatening, only for that superstar to be back next week
The Bellas: i have no idea why they exist. I'd have taken Aksana for the dark-haired eye candy.
Street Fight/No-Holds Barred/No DQ/Weapons matches: They're the same fucking match. Call them the same thing
Not having King of the Ring: Great format, easily better than half of the shitty gimmick PPVs
No William Regal: Seriously, the guy is money
I can't believe it's not butter: You've told me that it's not butter, so due to advertising standards and the difference in taste to real butter, I can believe it's not butter. Stop treating me like some sort of idiot

Jimmy Zero
July 27th, 2013, 12:31 PM
Good call on the camera work during the Shield attacks. The height of amateurish.

Kneeneighbor
July 27th, 2013, 12:49 PM
Not having King of the Ring: Great format, easily better than half of the shitty gimmick PPVs


There were a few problems with KoR. First off tournament PPVs have historically not drawn well. People want to know what matches they are going to see. Secondly, the started attaching a title match to the winner. That severely limited the booking of the tournament and it became a lazy way to book the next title feud. I agree though I dislike many of the gimmick PPVs now.

VHS
July 27th, 2013, 1:03 PM
Referring to the fans as The WWE Universe. It's seriously the stupidest thing ever.

JP
July 27th, 2013, 1:23 PM
I love the camera work during The Shield matches.

Jaymz
July 27th, 2013, 1:41 PM
There were a few problems with KoR. First off tournament PPVs have historically not drawn well. People want to know what matches they are going to see. Secondly, the started attaching a title match to the winner. That severely limited the booking of the tournament and it became a lazy way to book the next title feud. I agree though I dislike many of the gimmick PPVs now.

I'd quite like a once a year PPV with neither of the big titles on the line, and just some damn good wrestling on it (A bit similar to the ECW One night stands or the recent TNA specials). Nothing but the title of KotR for the winner, which in itself can be a gimmick in the right hands.

Throw in some mid-card shit to kick the PPV off and you've got a solid card. Matches like Del Rio vs A recently jobbed out to everyone Christian and John Cena vs. Someone they'll never the put the title on doesn't interest me because I know the outcome. If you take away the baggage that comes with the outcome of the match, then I think that it opens up a lot more options.

Mizark was never going to beat Cena for the title, but with no title on the line at a PPV, you can elevate him by him picking up a win, by hook or by crook.

The Law
July 27th, 2013, 1:52 PM
I think they should bring back King of the Ring. I don't think they need to have the final three rounds on pay-per-view, I think it would probably make more sense to just do the finals and semi-finals on the show itself and the rest of the matches on TV leading up. Then they can still have room for the rest of the card, including WWE and World Heavyweight Championship matches. A show featuring just a tournament would probably draw quite poorly, as tournament shows traditionally have. If they want to make the tournament more important, giving the winner a "World Championship Match" in return for winning is also fine. It doesn't have to be at Summerslam, or even on pay-per-view at all. It can be, in the case that they want to do that. But other times it can just be a TV main event.

The Rogerer
July 27th, 2013, 2:58 PM
I hate face turns where a heel gets really hot with the crowd and they neuter what made him over to become a generic face. This happened with Orton some years ago, where he was an absolute badass as a heel and one of the more fascinating characters they've had in a good long while. Suddenly he's face and isn't doing the crazy things that gave him his edge. They did the same with Punk following his face turn with Cena. After a couple months he became more generic until he wisely turned heel again. If the crowd cheers what you do, don't stop doing it.Daniel Bryan has managed this so well. I was hesitant for him to go completely face and ruin it, but they gave him such a long run as a face who still thought he was a heel that they earned it. The most whirlwind example of this I have ever seen was Fandango. Fandangoing takes off and they absolutely smother it by having Grandad Lawler get into the ring and tell everybody to sing along with the hip new sensation.

El_Dandy
July 27th, 2013, 7:25 PM
John Morrison's insanely idiotic entrance from back when he was with the WWE... Goldust's was bad enough, then this turd Morrison comes out and everything is in slow motion with wind I mean a fan blowing in his hair while he wears a lady coat and the queerest bell bottoms ever. Not to mention the incredibly awful pose he does at the top of the stage... Like he's some super sexy rock n roller heroin addict superstar lyrical god poser of a musician that less than 10 percent of your fanbase knows,likes, or appreciates.

VHS
July 27th, 2013, 7:31 PM
Morrison was money, I miss that bastard. :(

Cewsh
July 27th, 2013, 8:06 PM
John Morrison's insanely idiotic entrance from back when he was with the WWE... Goldust's was bad enough, then this turd Morrison comes out and everything is in slow motion with wind I mean a fan blowing in his hair while he wears a lady coat and the queerest bell bottoms ever. Not to mention the incredibly awful pose he does at the top of the stage... Like he's some super sexy rock n roller heroin addict superstar lyrical god poser of a musician that less than 10 percent of your fanbase knows,likes, or appreciates.

There's some homophobic stuff in there right next to you calling him super sexy. I feel like you're confused, Dandy.

Hero!
July 27th, 2013, 8:14 PM
El Dandy should have thrown a "no homo" in there.

El_Dandy
July 27th, 2013, 8:15 PM
He's the one that is confused everything about him screamed bi sexual and feminine. His entrance made me change the channel thats all I know.

Hero!
July 27th, 2013, 8:16 PM
His entrance made me change the channel thats all I know.


Because it confuses you in the pants?

Beer-Belly
July 27th, 2013, 8:19 PM
I hate face turns where a heel gets really hot with the crowd and they neuter what made him over to become a generic face. This happened with Orton some years ago, where he was an absolute badass as a heel and one of the more fascinating characters they've had in a good long while. Suddenly he's face and isn't doing the crazy things that gave him his edge. They did the same with Punk following his face turn with Cena. After a couple months he became more generic until he wisely turned heel again. If the crowd cheers what you do, don't stop doing it.

I prefer Punk as a face, honestly. I like cheering the guy. So far he hasn't been blanded down in his current face role. "Swearing" on Heyman's children recently was an awesome bit that showed he can be a babyface while retaining his edge.

El_Dandy
July 27th, 2013, 8:19 PM
Nope pretty sure that my wife is does it for me.

Hero!
July 27th, 2013, 8:20 PM
Does she enter the bedroom in slow motion while wearing a fur coat and bell bottoms?

El_Dandy
July 27th, 2013, 8:22 PM
I have never seen her in a fur coat or bell bottoms, thank god. I don't want to be with a woman who takes fashion tips from Janis Joplin.

turdpower
July 27th, 2013, 8:23 PM
Cewsh, I think you misunderstand his post.

El_Dandy
July 27th, 2013, 8:26 PM
Was it some kind of is her name John Morrison swerve? That would have been funny but I ruined it.

Cewsh
July 27th, 2013, 8:35 PM
Cewsh, I think you misunderstand his post.

Haha, on purpose. Dandy and I are cool.

Atty
July 27th, 2013, 11:13 PM
Jomo's entrance was amazing.

milo
July 31st, 2013, 12:15 AM
A wrestler is getting a beat-down after a match, and no-one comes out to help... Not even a Ref or Security.

Kdestiny
July 31st, 2013, 12:17 AM
A wrestler is getting a beat-down after a match, and no-one comes out to help... Not even a Ref or Security.

And then in the case of Lesnar/Cena you get the entire roster

The Law
July 31st, 2013, 12:23 AM
I'll mention something that doesn't irk me: WWE pushing social media constantly on their show. It makes sense from a business perspective to want a more engaged audience, which social media allows. A large percentage of the audience is on Twitter, and I think many of them Tweet along with the show. I think the way they use social media can continue to improve, but I don't really see what everyone's problem is. At most, it takes up a few minutes of the show, and that's when they explain how to use the App...which gives people access to more wrestling content, meaning it more than makes up for the time spent plugging it. Letting people vote for what they want to see is a good idea, even if the actual results are almost never surprising.

On the other hand, when Rock was cutting promos a few years ago where all he was doing was making up some phrase and then saying it was trending on Twitter it really pissed me off.

Andy
July 31st, 2013, 10:29 AM
The problem I have with it isn't necessarily that they plug it, it's when they do it. Saying here's something going on with the app (eg an interview or a promo) DURING A MATCH, is beyond stupid. Also Michael Cole going on about it all the fucking time. Plug it, sure. Explain how to use it, sure. Tell us how there's some more context to what's going on now on the app, no problem. But talking about nonsense that's being going on in social media that has absolutely no relevance, fuck off with that.

Cewsh
July 31st, 2013, 11:13 AM
Well in some cases it is relevant during the match. Like when they're voting on stipulations, or when the go to commercial and you can use the app to see what's going on while the show is off. Those are cool features. They're just very inefficient in how they get the information across.

The Rogerer
July 31st, 2013, 11:17 AM
When did they start having advert breaks in the middle of matches, and did this coincide with the app? It's not some god given commandment to have breaks in the middle of the matches.

Cewsh
July 31st, 2013, 11:18 AM
They've done that ever since they've had television, I think, to some extent. But it definitely predates the app. They do it to give viewers a break in the middle of long matches so they stay tuned in, because fans have historically tuned out of many longer tv matches.

The Rogerer
July 31st, 2013, 11:21 AM
I watched Raw and Smackdown from 1999 to about 2002 regularly and I don't recall it happening. Am I just being completely forgetful? Why would I then be surprised when I came back and said "why is this happening"

Fanny
July 31st, 2013, 11:22 AM
:lol:

excellent work Rog

The Law
July 31st, 2013, 11:36 AM
I watched Raw and Smackdown from 1999 to about 2002 regularly and I don't recall it happening. Am I just being completely forgetful? Why would I then be surprised when I came back and said "why is this happening"

That's really because TV matches in that period very rarely ran for very long. When you go back and watch old Raws the matches are almost always less than five minutes long. Today we get 15 minute matches on Raw every week. If matches are going to run long, they are going to have to go to commercial in the middle of them.

wardy
July 31st, 2013, 11:37 AM
I watched Raw and Smackdown from 1999 to about 2002 regularly and I don't recall it happening. Am I just being completely forgetful? Why would I then be surprised when I came back and said "why is this happening"
We didn't get Raw and Smackdown live back then did we? Also, the matches were a lot shorter.

The Rogerer
July 31st, 2013, 11:51 AM
It wasn't live, I just wonder if during those days that the US was getting match adverts and Sky Sports was just allowing all the footage to keep going.

Matthew
July 31st, 2013, 11:58 AM
i remember in my younger days it happening even on shows like superstars and stuff. my memory if a bit fuzzier on the 1997-2001 times

Dave
July 31st, 2013, 12:57 PM
From my memory of watching Raw and SmackDown! on SkySports we'd get mini-breaks in matches - maybe a plug for the upcoming PPV, or a Don't Try This At Home bit. Usually very short (30 secs or so), but enough so that when the commentators mentioned coming back from an ad break it made sense. They definitely existed - at least in the tail end of 2000 and 2001.

Tainted Eclipse
July 31st, 2013, 1:15 PM
i do remember a commercial coming on during some big multi-man tag match i think in the smackdown episode arnold schwarzenegger was on and thinking how odd it was to have a commercial in the middle of the match because i couldn't remember seeing something like that. when i started watching again in 2004 it was one of the most noticeable changes for me, commercials interrupting matches regularly.

VHS
July 31st, 2013, 1:22 PM
Another think that irks me is when we come back from commercial and there's about 4-5 more minutes of wrestling, Michael Cole says "Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, this is Monday Night Raw..." I understand why he's supposed to do this, but it just bothers me to no end because it sounds like they've just come from another commercial break even though we just did several minutes ago.

Hero!
July 31st, 2013, 1:24 PM
Yeah, commercials never happened during matches till 2003 or so, when 10+ minute matches started to become a bit more regular. During the Smackdown Six era it was pretty normal too. Now, even short matches go about 8 minutes, which is why they often have to cut out entrances too (Barrett gets this treatment a lot).

i love the social media aspect. I love the app and enjoy reading wrestlers' tweets. Cole explained in an interview a few months back that he's basically got Vince screaming in his ear to plug twitter, tout, the app, and Facebook during matches while also plugging any one of their other 4 shows, PPVs, new stuff on WWE shop AND giving background on interviews conducted on WWE.com AND any outside stuff the wrestlers do like radio interviews or TV appearances. Poor cole, he's really not trying to shove this shit down everyone's throat, there's just so much of it that Vince & Co need him to keep bringing it up.

VHS
July 31st, 2013, 1:40 PM
Ugh, I've been detesting Cole's commentary for years now, but I still respect him. He's been busting his tail and dedicating himself 100% longer than I normally realize, and there's probably nobody else on this planet that can do his job especially with Vince screaming into his hear all the time all the while commentating on the matches. That said, I still wish we had somebody else in his place because there's something about Michael's voice that gives the show a mediocre feel. His voice, his vernacular, and his lack of chemistry with King & JBL certainly doesn't help matters either. It rarely feels like we have 3 buddies kicking back and critiquing a show, but instead it feels like 3 strangers that aren't paying attention to what the others are saying. Like they're walking at their own beat.

But if I had to choose which one to send packing, it would definitely be King... easy choice. If Cole makes things sound mediocre, then King makes things sound re-tar-ded.

I wish the commentators had more room to stretch their verbal legs and actually be themselves rather than robotic parrots with a grumpy pirate spitting in their ears.

Slare
July 31st, 2013, 1:44 PM
Another think that irks me is when we come back from commercial and there's about 4-5 more minutes of wrestling, Michael Cole says "Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, this is Monday Night Raw..." I understand why he's supposed to do this, but it just bothers me to no end because it sounds like they've just come from another commercial break even though we just did several minutes ago.

They will generally do this at the top of the hour to introduce new viewers.

Tainted Eclipse
July 31st, 2013, 1:59 PM
i think why all the social media stuff irks a lot of people is because people have a natural aversion to hard selling and corporate speak. "hey WWE UNIVERSE, dont forget to download the WWE AP because raw is the most SOCIALLY CONNECT show on blah blah blah etc"

and yeah i dont envy cole's job at all, having to plug shit every 5 seconds with endless corporate buzzwords

Andy
July 31st, 2013, 2:12 PM
I think Cole has very good chemistry with JBL. Some of the commentary on Raw was painful with JBL not there.

The thing that probably annoys me more than anything about commentary is that they just don't call any of the moves. I know they're told to tell a sports entertainment story but that doesn't mean they can't call any of the moves at all. Everything is a "takedown" with Cole.

Bennedy
July 31st, 2013, 2:14 PM
Or a throw. It's a suplex ffs.

Hero!
July 31st, 2013, 2:30 PM
Cole's inability to tell the Lion Tamer & Walls of Jericho apart fucking kills me.

VHS
July 31st, 2013, 2:54 PM
I'm sure Cole knows the difference, it's just what he's being told to call it that you might find annoying.

The Rogerer
July 31st, 2013, 2:59 PM
I don't mind Cole too much and he has a tough job, it's Lawler they need to get rid of. Sending him in to get involved with the divas or the Fandango stuff was silly. It would allow JBL and Cole a chance to develop a partnership as well.

The Law
July 31st, 2013, 3:50 PM
Cole and JBL seem to have pretty good chemistry both in and out of the booth, but it's hard for that to shine in a three man booth. Three guys can work if they all have very specific, defined roles, but I don't think we have that in the current Raw booth. Cole is the play by play and JBL and King are both color, and I guess to a limited extent JBL is supposed to be the heel commentator, but he really doesn't seem to act like a heel much. He never really criticizes the faces and his support for the heels is pretty limited.

For me, the clear solution is just to send Lawler into retirement with our best wishes. Cole and JBL would be an adequate pair for Raw, and they should use a different pair for Smackdown to give the shows a different feel.

Hero!
July 31st, 2013, 3:59 PM
I'm sure Cole knows the difference, it's just what he's being told to call it that you might find annoying.

No. He literally once called the lion tamer the walls and then as Jericho switched to the walls, he called it the tamer.

Andy
July 31st, 2013, 7:06 PM
The annoying thing is Cole used to call moves just fine on Smackdown from like 1999 onwards. He must just have too much crap to remember to bother with names of suplexes, holds and other moves.

Felonious Punk
August 4th, 2013, 11:13 AM
Commercial breaks during the match. Always takes me out of it.

Also, pole matches. And pinfalls in a cage match.

Melly
August 4th, 2013, 12:23 PM
Cole in general. He's annoying. He announces as if the moves are actually happening to him, gruning and making stupid noises. Very overdramatic.

Plugging the WWE app.

As mentioned multiple times, when wrestlers are distracted by somebody outside of the ring which leads to them losing the match.

Sheamus' brogue kick, especially when he had an injured arm and the opponent would work his arm when you knew Sheamus would just kick him to win.

VHS
August 4th, 2013, 12:28 PM
No. He literally once called the lion tamer the walls and then as Jericho switched to the walls, he called it the tamer.

Cole's not an idiot, Hero. :lol:

Anaconda Sniper
August 4th, 2013, 3:00 PM
And pinfalls in a cage match.


Same here..and winning by submission too. Cage matches are so much better when they actually have to escape the cage. This pinfall/submission crap in a cage match is retarded.

Vice
August 4th, 2013, 4:00 PM
THE DOOR in cage matches is the biggest abomination ever. It makes practically every single cage match absolutely retarded.

VHS
August 4th, 2013, 4:04 PM
THE DOOR in cage matches is the biggest abomination ever. It makes practically every single cage match absolutely retarded.

Especially when the only things separating the heel from the door is the unconscious face and they choose to climb over the top of the cage. The door is probably the TOP thing that requires me to suspend reality.

Tainted Eclipse
August 4th, 2013, 4:20 PM
Same here..and winning by submission too. Cage matches are so much better when they actually have to escape the cage. This pinfall/submission crap in a cage match is retarded.

it doesnt bother me, but if anything the idea of escaping being a way to win a cage match doesnt make any sense. you have two wrestlers in a blood feud who are thrown into a WALLED STRUCTURE to beat the hell out of each other, and the point of the match where you are thrown into an enclosed area to beat the hell out of your blood rival is ... to run away from him??

MMH
August 4th, 2013, 5:15 PM
You shouldnt have escapes in a cage match full stop. It makes no sense as TE said. A cage is usually put in as a culmination of a feud right? So I can see it if the cowardly heel wants to escape, but the face escaping to win makes no sense at all. Surely he should want to destroy his arch nemesis.

They may as well make them have a race or something.

The Law
August 4th, 2013, 5:35 PM
I've never really understood the conventional wisdom that pinfalls or submissions shouldn't count in a cage match. I've never actually heard anyone cite a reason why they think that, but it gets repeated all the time. I think any combination of pin, submission, or escape is fine. Escape creates drama and big spots, while pins and submissions can make the match more brutal and personal. It's not very personal or definitive to escape the cage in most cases, whereas it's a clear and definitive result to either pin or tap out your opponent.

And the door is the one of the worst things in wrestling. Why are you just allowed to walk out of the door? Why not make people climb all the way up the cage? Walking out the door is so incredibly easy. As in, the match should be over the first time someone gets knocked down, because the other guy could just walk right out the door at that point. I don't think the door is more unrealistic than the Irish Whip, but it's high on the list of least realistic moves in wrestling.

Here's another nominee: the Catapult. Fakest move in wrestling? I think so. If someone performed that move on me I would just fall right over. So would anyone else. I would not go flying through the air...unless I deliberately jumped to make it happen, which is what so clearly happens every single time the move is performed. I would definitely prefer to never see that move done again.

Mark Hammer
August 6th, 2013, 7:51 PM
As cheesy as the catapult is it's no worse than your typical Irish whip. Our bodies don't run indefinitely bouncing off ropes.

Mark Hammer
August 6th, 2013, 7:53 PM
I don't mind Cole too much and he has a tough job, it's Lawler they need to get rid of. Sending him in to get involved with the divas or the Fandango stuff was silly. It would allow JBL and Cole a chance to develop a partnership as well.

Lawler is horrible, true. But Cole is insanely corny and off-putting. I'll take Lawler over him any day, as bad as he is.

VHS
August 6th, 2013, 7:56 PM
Lawler is horrible, true. But Cole is insanely corny and off-putting. I'll take Lawler over him any day, as bad as he is.

Lawler over Cole? I don't know what to say... :barf:

Mark Hammer
August 6th, 2013, 7:59 PM
Lawler is terrible. Cole is unbearable.

VHS
August 6th, 2013, 8:15 PM
I'm going to pay less attention to your posts from now on, Mark Hammer. :lol:

Mark Hammer
August 6th, 2013, 8:31 PM
So Lawler isn't terrible? Or do you not find Cole unbearable?

I'm open to listening to your opinion, being an adult and all.

kangus
August 6th, 2013, 9:15 PM
I'm going to pay less attention to your posts from now on, Mark Hammer. :lol:

This guy learns quickly!

Mark Hammer
August 7th, 2013, 8:57 AM
Aye, and if disliking Michael Cole on commentary earns his ire then he's going to be ignoring quite a few people here.

ChiefsPhan
August 7th, 2013, 10:08 AM
It bothers me that The Miz went from WWE champion to hosting Summerslam... And announcing..

Psycho666Soldier
August 7th, 2013, 10:41 AM
It bothers me that The Miz went from WWE champion to hosting Summerslam... And announcing..

Welcome to the boards, mate.

I completely agree. Perhaps there isn't much room for him right now, but since losing the WWE title, he's been terribly misused. The face turn helped that for about two weeks before he started becoming irrelevant again. Hopefully they find something for him to do after WM30. Just one last significant run is all I ask.

Cewsh
August 7th, 2013, 10:56 AM
I think Miz might be the most underrated wrestler in the world these days.

Psycho666Soldier
August 7th, 2013, 11:01 AM
I think Miz might be the most underrated wrestler in the world these days.

I would generally agree with that statement. He was starting to come around during his title run, but when he first made his return from filming The Marine 3(when he first won the Intercontinental Champion) he was KILLING it in the ring! I was enjoying everything about him during that, then they took the belt away from him prematurely. Also, his face turn allowed him to wrestle a different way, and it came off effortlessly. I still remember his first match with Ziggler on Main Event after TLC. It proved to me that he would make a great face, particularly in the ring. Unfortunately, not so much on the mic, and as I said in the last post...he slowly fell into obscurity after that.

JustDuett
August 7th, 2013, 11:10 AM
I may have missed this on a previous page, but a little thing that irks me is that almost EVERY TIME they cut backstage, especially when relates to either a GM or a McMahon/HHH segment, the person HAS to be on the phone... Sometimes there are multiple cuts to the GM office and Vickie/Brad/whatever person it is is always getting off of a phone conversation and it just strikes me as odd/stupid. Obviously, this is very minor, but it makes me miss the days where an authority figure backstage was actually being productive or proactive in getting things done and was not just sitting in their "office" waiting for their fake phone calls to be interrupted by (insert name here).

The Rogerer
August 7th, 2013, 11:14 AM
They should maybe have a corporate box area that wrestlers/GMs go up into so you can cut to them watching the matches instead of starting at a TV (6 inches from Christian's face on Raw this week), a little like they have tried to do with the PPV pundit space. I realise this depends on the arena, and also a lot of the stuff is possibly pre-taped, but it might help it feel more organic.

Mark Hammer
August 7th, 2013, 7:27 PM
I liked the Miz when he was paired up with Morrison but I quickly became sour on him as soon as they started pushing him in the main event. He's decent (albeit forced) on a mic and by all accounts a good ambassador for WWE but he is a midcard talent at best.

VHS
August 7th, 2013, 7:47 PM
Miz is a guy we'll all remember 5-10 years from now, that alone says a lot about him (in a good way).

Version 6
August 7th, 2013, 7:51 PM
Nailed on midcarder.

He's not ever going to be the reason someone buys a ticket to see the show.

mimozed
August 8th, 2013, 1:49 PM
Michael Coles "Vintage" or "Classic" sound bite he yells, which correct me if I am wrong but when he does it for Randy Orton it sounds a bit like he is climaxing. "VINTAGE ORTON.....OOOH YEAH ORTON" (the sound of a thousand bananas peeling) I just don't like the PG WWE I understand why I just don't like it watching the strain in a wrestlers face when he goes on a role doing a promo but then he hits a cross roads he could say something that may offend or sound sexual and edits themselves killing the organic nature of conversation. granted CM Punk an Cena either can get away with some slight swearing but also seem to have the vocabulary to pull off a good promo keep it PG an believable.

Cewsh
August 8th, 2013, 2:00 PM
Nailed on midcarder.

He's not ever going to be the reason someone buys a ticket to see the show.

I both agree and disagree. I agree that he'll likely never be more than that from this point on, but I think if the Rock came back in 2012 and not 2011, it would be a very different story.

Andy
August 8th, 2013, 2:06 PM
Yeah Miz fell victim to The Rock and Super Cena at his worst, but I don't ever see him being at that level again. There's so many younger guys who are already better or on the verge of being better in all departments.

Having said that, I do think the guy is underrated in the ring. I really enjoyed his 2/3 falls match with Cesaro and IC title match with Barrett the night after Mania.

Cewsh
August 8th, 2013, 2:07 PM
I haven't seen a single bad Miz match since he came back. I can't say the same about a lot of top level wrestlers in the same time period.

Bennedy
August 8th, 2013, 2:08 PM
I really liked Miz's championship run. Apart from that clusterfuck ending at Wrestlemania, but lets all forget about that.

He is very similar to Ziggler in a way as they both started off as low card acts and worked hard to get to the position they are in today. Miz needs to go back to being a heel though. He is just not the kind of guy that you want to cheer.

MMH
August 8th, 2013, 2:10 PM
Speaking of Orton and Cole, the way he says "hes got voices in his head" when he starts to do his finishing routine. Its so annoying and doesnt even make sense.

MMH
August 8th, 2013, 2:12 PM
I haven't seen a single bad Miz match since he came back. I can't say the same about a lot of top level wrestlers in the same time period.

I think the best description for the Miz is solid. Not stunning in the ring, not awful either just a nice solid WWE wrestler.

He should always be a heel though.

The Rogerer
August 8th, 2013, 2:13 PM
He is so creepy

Kimura Kid
August 8th, 2013, 3:26 PM
I Can't fucking stand having the Champions coming down to the ring before their opponent. If you have a fucking title and the guy your facing doesn't you should be coming out last if your title is on the line.

:banghead:

Matthew
August 8th, 2013, 3:51 PM
the shields' outfits

why do you need so many pockets

Hero!
August 8th, 2013, 3:53 PM
I Can't fucking stand having the Champions coming down to the ring before their opponent. If you have a fucking title and the guy your facing doesn't you should be coming out last if your title is on the line.

:banghead:

for some reason, I was convinced this was only a recent thing, but I was watching some old WWF matches and they did it back then too. I don't know why.


the shields' outfits

why do you need so many pockets

To hold all their JUSTICE

Kdestiny
August 8th, 2013, 4:11 PM
I hate that the midcard champions lose so many non-title matches. I know they want to make new challengers, but that is the wrong way to do it as it weakens the champion and the championship by a lot.

mth
August 8th, 2013, 4:24 PM
Speaking of Orton and Cole, the way he says "hes got voices in his head" when he starts to do his finishing routine. Its so annoying and doesnt even make sense.

ORTON'S GOING TO THAT PLACE!! is even worse. Can't remember if it's him or Lawler that says it...it's "THAT PLACE WHERE HE HEARS VOICES." or whatever. Blargh. Reminds me of when Cole was going on about Taker's 'dementia'.

Kdestiny
August 8th, 2013, 4:37 PM
ORTON'S GOING TO THAT PLACE!! is even worse. Can't remember if it's him or Lawler that says it...it's "THAT PLACE WHERE HE HEARS VOICES." or whatever. Blargh. Reminds me of when Cole was going on about Taker's 'dementia'.

Calling him "The man who has voices in his head" is really bothersome to me. Just a really dumb nickname by a really dumb commentator.

Bennedy
August 8th, 2013, 9:39 PM
I hate that the midcard champions lose so many non-title matches. I know they want to make new challengers, but that is the wrong way to do it as it weakens the champion and the championship by a lot.

I don't think that really happens as much now. Since Raw got a proper head writer they have made it much more sensible.

Mills
August 9th, 2013, 11:12 PM
When faces interfere in a heels match for a title. Wouldn't you want them to win so you can get your hands on the title?

9-to-5 Jobber
August 10th, 2013, 10:54 AM
I'm a bit late to the game here, so all my main "irks" have been discussed. One minor thing that bothers me is the cookie-cutter WHC promo, which always ends with "... when I become the World. Heavyweight. Champion." (or "when I win the World. Heavyweight. Championship.") It's the way they emphasize those three words that bugs me because 1) there's very little difference in delivery, making it obvious the same person/people wrote the promo, and 2) these promos are always the most generic because they lack a real storyline, relying solely on the quest for the championship, and 3) they go on for minutes but the amount of actual content could be communicated in about 10 seconds.

Kneeneighbor
August 10th, 2013, 11:09 AM
for some reason, I was convinced this was only a recent thing, but I was watching some old WWF matches and they did it back then too. I don't know why.


Often even when Hogan was challenging he would still demand to be out last.

OD50
August 10th, 2013, 2:02 PM
I remember being quite pissed about that at Mania V.

mimozed
August 13th, 2013, 2:51 AM
When people find out I love wrestling telling me it's fake like I'm retarded then I I have to go into I know it's preplanned but here is why it's epic go watch the kardashians and shut the honey boo boo fuck up!

Slare
August 13th, 2013, 9:15 AM
Wowwwwwwwza ok.

Mark Hammer
August 27th, 2013, 6:54 PM
Orton's reaction to Bryan vandalizing his Escalade last night got me to thinking. It really irks me how wrestlers stupidly storm in circles around the ring, all animated and cursing, when someone pisses them off on the Titantron or on the ramp. Surely they can just exit the ring and confront their antagonizer?

Cewsh
August 27th, 2013, 6:55 PM
Well, in that case Bryan was in the parking lot, so it might take Orton a solid 10 minutes to get to him.

Mark Hammer
August 27th, 2013, 6:57 PM
Still seems like a less futile effort than stomping about in circles. Orton may not have been able to get to him in time but he certainly wouldn't have looked as silly had he just made his way out of the ring to hunt him down.

mth
August 27th, 2013, 8:00 PM
RAW's a spoiler until Weds.

I definitely think it's stupid when they're fuming and on the chase and for some reason they stop at the ropes and just watch the other person go up the ramp and then stand around at the top of the stage. Happens quite frequently. I'd rather they pursue them up the ramp and backstage. Then just have the announcers say they were separated by officials once they got there.

mimozed
August 27th, 2013, 8:29 PM
That massive dick dolphin0800isuckballs thank.you for thinking that we all want what we clearly love spoiled ruined for what an ego boost a quick Buck for what to push for tighter wwe security bull shit I hope he reads this spoiler alert please come to new Zealand I run a Bar in northland we can have a drink I willing take your empty beer bottle turn it sideways and right up your candy assume!

Sorry a bit ranty but isn't anyone else bothered by this wwe terrorist?

mimozed
August 27th, 2013, 8:30 PM
Damn spell check lol
Ass

McBain
August 27th, 2013, 8:30 PM
Terrorist. :lol:

Not really, if you don't want to know the results don't click the link.

mth
August 27th, 2013, 8:31 PM
Yeah, I think he's kind of dumb but if you don't want to read stuff, no one's making you.

mimozed
August 27th, 2013, 8:47 PM
Break iI haven't read anything other than his attention seeking statements about his sources and the mole I guess in a contradictory way perhaps if he is ignored by wwe and by rajah and by the wrestmedia he won't have a platform for his act of terror lol what a shit terrorist name dolphin could have come up with something better like wrestleghost or the C.I.A god knows just hate it sorry guy's just pisses me off.

Jimmy Zero
August 27th, 2013, 8:54 PM
Uh...

Tainted Eclipse
August 27th, 2013, 9:02 PM
dolphins1925 running an indirect marketing campaign for himself in this very thread

Mark Hammer
August 27th, 2013, 9:04 PM
Quite the chore making sense out of mimozed's posts.

Jarrod1983
August 27th, 2013, 9:24 PM
That massive dick dolphin0800isuckballs thank.you for thinking that we all want what we clearly love spoiled ruined for what an ego boost a quick Buck for what to push for tighter wwe security bull shit I hope he reads this spoiler alert please come to new Zealand I run a Bar in northland we can have a drink I willing take your empty beer bottle turn it sideways and right up your candy assume!

Sorry a bit ranty but isn't anyone else bothered by this wwe terrorist?

I'm guessing, since you own a bar, you are drinking right now? Spell check can't help you brother.

VHS
August 27th, 2013, 9:38 PM
Break iI haven't read anything other than his attention seeking statements about his sources and the mole I guess in a contradictory way perhaps if he is ignored by wwe and by rajah and by the wrestmedia he won't have a platform for his act of terror lol what a shit terrorist name dolphin could have come up with something better like wrestleghost or the C.I.A god knows just hate it sorry guy's just pisses me off.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Blade_WTF.gif

mth
August 27th, 2013, 9:47 PM
Alright, we've made it clear mimozed could stand to improve his grammar/punctuation. Let's get back on topic from here on, please.

McBain
August 27th, 2013, 9:48 PM
Mimozed's grammar really irks me.

Cewsh
August 27th, 2013, 10:49 PM
That massive dick dolphin0800isuckballs thank.you for thinking that we all want what we clearly love spoiled ruined for what an ego boost a quick Buck for what to push for tighter wwe security bull shit I hope he reads this spoiler alert please come to new Zealand I run a Bar in northland we can have a drink I willing take your empty beer bottle turn it sideways and right up your candy assume!

Sorry a bit ranty but isn't anyone else bothered by this wwe terrorist?

Nope.

Newf
August 28th, 2013, 12:29 AM
Can we have something like this inserted into the registration process?

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/1/8/5/9/3/7/caption-this-52831799959.jpeg