"Crossface"

[TimeSplitter]

MoviePilot.com reports that actor Liev Schreiber has been tapped to play Chris Benoit in a movie about the tragic double murder-suicide. The movie is titled Crossface and is written by Sarah Coulter.

The movie will reportedly cover Benoit's life from the early days in his career through the final days of his life where he murdered his son and wife. Several WWE stars including Triple H and Vince McMahon will be portrayed.

I love the casting, but will this movie come with the "he who must not be named" mantra from WWE?

Discuss.

[Mik]

Ooh, this all seems like an awful idea.

[Cewsh]

Yeah, there's no way this ends well.

[The Rick]

Yea, but I'm probably gonna watch.

[Jacknife]

Ron Perlman to play Triple H?

[The Law]

This movie is a horrible idea. Are there any non-wrestling fans who would want to see this? And how many wrestling fans actually would want to see it?

For comparison "The Wrestler" did $44 million at the box office. That was a great return on its $6 million budget. But that was a movie directed by Darren Aronfsky that received near-unanimously positive reviews (98% on Rotten Tomatoes) and was nominated for Academy Awards. It also featured a much-hyped performance by Micky Rourke that nearly won him an Academy Award. Any chance this movie manages to replicate any of those things?

I can actually envision how this movie goes: cross-cutting between the present, as Benoit murders his wife and son, back to his training, his time in Japan, his days in WCW where he meets Nancy, the real-life/kayfabe issue with Kevin Sullivan, going to the WWF and becoming world champion. As he's flashing back between making Triple H tap out at Wrestlemania 20, he locks his son in the Crossface in his bed. He can't differentiate between fiction and reality, the past and the present. The crowd keeps roaring as Daniel goes limp...and then the cheering stops.

Fuck me, this sounds like a bad "Lifetime" movie.

Edit: Obviously, WWE won't cooperate with the making of this movie. All that really means is that they can't use actual footage owned by WWE (which they probably wouldn't have anyway). Portrayal of real-life people without their consent is legitimate. I'm sure WWE will do everything they can to avoid promoting this movie in any way, including asking USA, Sci Fi, and ION not to sell ad time to it while WWE shows are airing.

[Cewsh]

I don't care if this movie wins every award every conceived and Roger Ebert comes back from the dead to endorse it. There's no fucking way I'm seeing this thing. I hope it bombs to high heaven, because if it has any kind of success we'll have to go through another 6 months of non wrestling fans looking at wrestling fans like they're lepers.

[Eggbert Spam]

Why would you care?

[MikeHunt]

I don't care if this movie wins every award every conceived and Roger Ebert comes back from the dead to endorse it. There's no fucking way I'm seeing this thing. I hope it bombs to high heaven, because if it has any kind of success we'll have to go through another 6 months of non wrestling fans looking at wrestling fans like they're lepers.

So what.

[Mik]

So as a wrestling fan he doesnt want non-wrestling fans thinking that the thing he is interested in is any weirder than they already think that it is?

[The Rogerer]

I can imagine if this was a kickstarter, it would be funded to the hilt so we can 'get to the truth'. I've asked this before, but it seems as time goes on the fascination with Benoit grows louder - as displayed in the original post. It seems that people treat the WWE's understandable silence on him as some sort of conspiracy. I read a thing on a forum that tries to deal with it as him being framed by Kevin Sullivan. It seems some people think the annals of professional wrestling history are more important than a tragedy that it's possibly liable for.

The one potentially interesting aspect to the Benoit case is the level of brain damage he had sustained, presumably from wrestling, that lead to his actions. That's pretty inconclusive and far from the subject of a film to delve into.

[MikeHunt]

So as a wrestling fan he doesnt want non-wrestling fans thinking that the thing he is interested in is any weirder than they already think that it is?

I still don't understand why that would make a single fuck of a difference.

[Cewsh]

Why would you care?


So what.

Because it's unpleasant for people to be shitty to you based on something you like? I would love to pretend that that sort of thing doesn't affect me because that's the cool way to be, but it was pretty rotten to be the person in my friend group who was known to love wrestling when the Chris Benoit story first hit, and having to defend my interest in it again and again.

Even good things like The Wrestler bring that on. I remember my mother in law watched it, and a few months later at dinner she asked me why I liked watching people staple dollar bills on each other's faces all the time.

[MikeHunt]

No one is judging you personally on what your interests are. It's not like you personally murdered anyone.

[The Rogerer]

I don't know whether to lay into Cewsh or not, so I'll casually mention that his train of thought here makes him look a bit like a stroppy teenager who doesn't want people coming into his bedroom. I think anyone who is very into wrestling probably does need to have a good answer as to what they like about it, especially in the light of the pain and early deaths it breeds. The Wrestler was a pretty fair criticism on the business.

[wardy]

Haha what the fuck just grow a pair and laugh it off like every other adult wrestling fan does.

[MikeHunt]

I don't know whether to lay into Cewsh or not, so I'll casually mention that his train of thought here makes him look a bit like a stroppy teenager who doesn't want people coming into his bedroom. I think anyone who is very into wrestling probably does need to have a good answer as to what they like about it, especially in the light of the pain and early deaths it breeds. The Wrestler was a pretty fair criticism on the business.

Dont know how cewsh's mother in law would react to finding out his reasons for liking wrestling; men, pants, oil and fireworks. Probably easier to be a stroppy girl about it.

[Cewsh]

I've done a bad job explaining myself here. Obviously anyone who is actively into pro wrestling beyond a certain way has a few people who will look at them askance. That's no big deal, though I know a lot of wrestling fans who never admit to it because of that. But when the Benoit news broke there was a whole new group of people who had "views" on this sort of thing, and they're just an unbelievable bore to have to deal with. I got cornered at parties by a few of these people, and it's annoying to know that this movie, if it is successful, will probably result in a new round of that sort of thing.

[MikeHunt]

You know how easy it is to say, "I don't want to talk about that." Really that simple cewsh.

[Eggbert Spam]

Or if you're so invested in wrestling that you get upset by people's opinions use it as an opportunity to enlighten them. Or debate them in normal humanly interaction.

Perhaps it's because I'm so witty and erudite, or maybe I just don't socialise with fuckwits, but I've never had someone say "ew, you like wrestling??"

[Hero!]

Liev Shcrieber has denied the rumors that he's playing Benoit. I would have actually really enjoyed that casting choice.

[Eggbert Spam]

On topic, I don't care about any supposed moral implications of this film, but it does seem a bit of an odd idea. I am however very interested to see Liev Schreiber play Benoit.

*fuck you Hero, spoiling my dream

[Hero!]

Ahaha, trust me, man, I would have loved Schrieber in the role. Been a big fan of his since the Scream movies.

[wardy]

Cewsh anyone that beats you up for liking wrestling isn't your friend.

[Jimmy Zero]

I've done a bad job explaining myself here. Obviously anyone who is actively into pro wrestling beyond a certain way has a few people who will look at them askance. That's no big deal, though I know a lot of wrestling fans who never admit to it because of that. But when the Benoit news broke there was a whole new group of people who had "views" on this sort of thing, and they're just an unbelievable bore to have to deal with. I got cornered at parties by a few of these people, and it's annoying to know that this movie, if it is successful, will probably result in a new round of that sort of thing.

Oh give me a break. Seriously, you sound like a petulant 13 year old.

As for me, I'd totally see a Benoit movie, especially if Liev Schreiber were to play him.

[Cewsh]

Actually, I do, don't I? I get way too carried away with stuff like this sometimes.

[Version 6]

Actually, I do, don't I? I get way too carried away with stuff like this sometimes.

Especially since the wrestling business does not in any way, shape or form deserve to be defended in this instance.

If people are turned off wrestling or have a negative view towards it because of the Benoit incident and the like, then rightly so.

[Simon]

Cewsh anyone that beats you up for liking wrestling isn't your friend.

Anyone that beats up Cewsh can be my friend.

[Version 6]

Anyone that beats up Cewsh can be my friend.

I was planning to beat up Cewsh, but I won't now.

[Simon]

Only joking Cewsh you old fucker.

Also, this made me laugh:


Yeah, there's no way this ends well.

You can say that again HAAAAAAAAAA

[Cewsh]

Yep, I acted like a spaz and got called on it. I'm glad, really. I was getting all kinds of whiny over nothing.

[lotjx]

So, is this a go or not, now? As for the fascination with Benoit, it comes from the fact that a lot of people, myself included, were giant Benoit fans. We don't want a guy that we put all of our hopes and dreams about wrestling turn out to be a murdering fucktard. There is little or no truth about Benoit, he killed a woman and child and no amount of studies or conspiracy theories are going to change it.

[Version 6]

Studies are important though.

With anything like this, it's important to know why it happened and would could have been done differently in order to prevent it. If injuries sustained over the course of his employment are a significant contributing factor, I think it's worth knowing.

[lotjx]

Its worth knowing, but its not going to excuse the actions. People want the study to be this smoking gun to absolve Benoit for his crimes. It won't. I also doubt how much of it was brain damage. There is way too much time from him murdering Nancy to his son to himself for him to being in a haze. He had to know what he was doing or did.

[Version 6]

It's not about finding an excuse for him. It's about preventing this sort of thing from happening again (to the extent that it is preventable).

[Jimmy Zero]

Its worth knowing, but its not going to excuse the actions. People want the study to be this smoking gun to absolve Benoit for his crimes. It won't. I also doubt how much of it was brain damage. There is way too much time from him murdering Nancy to his son to himself for him to being in a haze. He had to know what he was doing or did.

It's really quite entertaining to see your posts. Your level of cluelessness is truly impressive.

[Eggbert Spam]

Studies are important though.

With anything like this, it's important to know why it happened and would could have been done differently in order to prevent it. If injuries sustained over the course of his employment are a significant contributing factor, I think it's worth knowing.

They should have banned the shoulder charge.

[lotjx]

It's really quite entertaining to see your posts. Your level of cluelessness is truly impressive.

Its nice to see another snark comment with nothing behind it from you.

[The_Mike]

Its worth knowing, but its not going to excuse the actions. People want the study to be this smoking gun to absolve Benoit for his crimes. It won't. I also doubt how much of it was brain damage. There is way too much time from him murdering Nancy to his son to himself for him to being in a haze. He had to know what he was doing or did.

Remind me to call you for my next neurological consult.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Its worth knowing, but its not going to excuse the actions. People want the study to be this smoking gun to absolve Benoit for his crimes. It won't. I also doubt how much of it was brain damage. There is way too much time from him murdering Nancy to his son to himself for him to being in a haze. He had to know what he was doing or did.

Why even make certain pronunciations on things you have no idea about? You don't even know how long people can be psychotic for, obviously (working under the theory here that Benoit was psychotic when he carried out the crimes). People with Alzheimer's disease and dementia lose their minds and stay that way until they die, do you realise this? People with schizophrenia will be in states of psychosis for years upon years if they do not get treatment. In a guy like Benoit, with a history of head injuries, he could easily have been in a state of early-onset dementia and a state of psychosis brought about by brain trauma.

And if he was psychotic or impaired due to long-term brain damage then it very much would be an excuse for behaving as he did and it would also be very much a good idea to find out about the effects of chronic brain injury in impact sports on mental health.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

This is a straight to DVD/TV movie waiting to happen. I can't imagine they'd really get a guy like Liev Schrieber on board for it. Who really gives a shit about Benoit's life apart from wrestling nerds?

[Jimmy Zero]

Its nice to see another snark comment with nothing behind it from you.

Better than posting ignorant bullshit constantly.

[lotjx]

Why even make certain pronunciations on things you have no idea about? You don't even know how long people can be psychotic for, obviously (working under the theory here that Benoit was psychotic when he carried out the crimes). People with Alzheimer's disease and dementia lose their minds and stay that way until they die, do you realise this? People with schizophrenia will be in states of psychosis for years upon years if they do not get treatment. In a guy like Benoit, with a history of head injuries, he could easily have been in a state of early-onset dementia and a state of psychosis brought about by brain trauma.

And if he was psychotic or impaired due to long-term brain damage then it very much would be an excuse for behaving as he did and it would also be very much a good idea to find out about the effects of chronic brain injury in impact sports on mental health.

How do I know about this stuff, Alzheimer runs in my family. I have seen my grandfather go through it and there were plenty of times even near the end where he could tell who was who and what was going on. It got worse the longer it went on, but he was still aware after he had incidents. And yes, those incidents were violent at times. My problem with the study is time and decision making. He lied to the WWE and got on a plane, murdered Nancy, took his son to the pool, killed his son, sent text messages out and then killed himself. If he suffered from dementia, he would showed signs when he was out in public of it. Instead, all we hear is that he was smiling with his son and having a good time at the pool. He was also on a plane in a tight compact area and no one has ever reported. The timeline as well as interactions with the public does not support the theory. His brain may look like it was that of a 80 year old Alzheimer patient, but his actions were not. There was too much planning.

People need to stop using this as an excuse to exonerate his actions. He is not going into the HOF, we will probably never see his matches on WWE TV again and there is no way, he will ever be the IWC darling in which he was even though the IWC seems to go out of its way to defend him. Benoit was my hero too, but the reality is we never really know anyone especially people on television.

[The Rogerer]

Completely anecdotal. I think it's the other way around. I think it's used to exonerate the demands and extreme dangers of pro wrestling and how we ultimately bay for blood when watching it. I can safely say ECG doesn't give two shits about Benoit's 'legacy'. I agree that the WWE shouldn't bring him up again, but they do share some of the guilt, and by extension so do fans. There's a good chance that brain damage played a big factor in what happened, and then that should force everything to think about what professional wrestling is doing to people.

I think there is a resistance from people to question the things they are into. Pro wrestling is a very brutal industry, more so that real sports, and yet people will close ranks around it in the face of the Parent's Television Council/their mum/people asking questions about Benoit and defend it without question because they 'love it'.

[Jimmy Zero]

How do I know about this stuff, Alzheimer runs in my family. I have seen my grandfather go through it and there were plenty of times even near the end where he could tell who was who and what was going on. It got worse the longer it went on, but he was still aware after he had incidents. And yes, those incidents were violent at times. My problem with the study is time and decision making. He lied to the WWE and got on a plane, murdered Nancy, took his son to the pool, killed his son, sent text messages out and then killed himself. If he suffered from dementia, he would showed signs when he was out in public of it. Instead, all we hear is that he was smiling with his son and having a good time at the pool. He was also on a plane in a tight compact area and no one has ever reported. The timeline as well as interactions with the public does not support the theory. His brain may look like it was that of a 80 year old Alzheimer patient, but his actions were not. There was too much planning.

People need to stop using this as an excuse to exonerate his actions. He is not going into the HOF, we will probably never see his matches on WWE TV again and there is no way, he will ever be the IWC darling in which he was even though the IWC seems to go out of its way to defend him. Benoit was my hero too, but the reality is we never really know anyone especially people on television.

I didn't know you were a neurological expert. Oh wait, you're not, this is just more ignorant bullshit. Was your grandfather also a steroid freak who made a career of taking blows to the head and who suffered several concussions and brain bruises over the course of his career? He wasn't? Oh, then how is your grandfather at all relevant to Chris Benoit? Yeah, he's not.

Since you want to use personal anecdotes to apparently prove your idiotic point, my grandfather also suffered from Alzheimer's at the end of his life. At first, it wasn't too severe, but he quickly went so far downhill that the only things he could sometimes remember were the songs from the musicals he grew up watching, and occasionally my grandmother. He didn't recognize his kids, or grandkids, and got so bad that he often couldn't remember how to put on a fucking pair of pants. He would get violent with my grandmother and aunts and uncles because he wouldn't recognize them and thought they were breaking into his home to harm him. We eventually had to have him put in a home because he was so far gone that we did not have the capabilities or understanding to properly care for him and maintain his safety. lotjx, you probably don't even get my point, here.

Fact of the matter is no one is trying to use this to exonerate his actions. You're just too stupid to understand why NFL players, hockey players, pro wrestlers, and members of any other profession that involves their brain rattling around in their skull would want to know exactly how concussions and traumatic brain injuries effect them in the long term. You think Benoit is the first person in history with a laundry list of brain injuries to go off the deep end and become violent? FYI he's not. Oh wait, I forgot, your grandfather suffered from Alzheimer's, so you're the expert.

[Mik]

Lets debate this without lowering ourselves to personal insults please.

[The_Mike]

As usual, Rogerer is talking sense and trying to steer this discussion into a rational direction. Anecdotal is the word. lotjx, you just can't set yourself up as the expert and arbitrer of how guilty and evil Benoit was because you knew people with Alzheimer's. That's not how discussions work and it's missing the complexity of the situation. We can trade stories all day and never actually get anywhere. I have met several people with forms of dementia that were quite severe and yet for periods they were perfectly capable of carrying on a conversation. They just thought it was 1968. My grandmother thought I was my father home from school and fed me my lunch while having a rational discourse that was displaced in time. She was still going shopping now and then. People can appear all right in the brief time somebody interacts with them out in the real world even if their mind has checked out. People have been known to drive while asleep or hypnotised without hitting anything, because some parts of the mind can run surprisingly well even if nobody's home.

But again, that's besides the point. This is not about exonerating Benoit, and your insistence that people are using it as an excuse is misplaced. You've been told that numerous times and I don't understand why you feel it is so necessary to make it plain to everyone you think he was an evil bastard. It is about finding out why it happened and whether people in a similar situation are likely to end up with similar results. You think Colette Foley hasn't wondered what impact 20 years of falling on floors has had on Mick? What's wrong with actually trying to learn something from what happened and accept that things are not black and white?

[virms]

Well said mike. :yes:

[Peter Griffin]

Absolutely it should be investigated, but they should absolutely not make a movie out of this. And as much as its a possibility that wrestling contributed to it, there is no chance that's the root cause, it goes a lot, lot deeper than that.

[Bill Casey]

If he suffered from dementia, he would showed signs when he was out in public of it. Instead, all we hear is that he was smiling with his son and having a good time at the pool.
According to the letters he kept writing to a dead Eddy Guerrero in his diary, towards the end he wouldn't take the same route to the airport because someone was out to get him, and he wouldn't let his family out of the house because someone was going to kidnap his son...

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Absolutely it should be investigated, but they should absolutely not make a movie out of this. And as much as its a possibility that wrestling contributed to it, there is no chance that's the root cause, it goes a lot, lot deeper than that.

How can you say is there no chance? I don't get why people make definitive statements on these things instead of just admitting they don't know.

I'm not very surprised lotjx missed the one I was making about dementia and other mental illness, that being that in contrary to his assertion that someone could not be out of their minds for long enough to carry out such acts, that in fact people can have impaired reasoning for years on end. There is no point bringing up anecdotal accounts of relatives knowing what time of day it was now and again, that's not a counter-argument.

If you care that much about wrestling and its image then you ought to care about the welfare of the people entertaining you, otherwise it is just exploitation. Writing Benoit's actions off as simply a random event brought about because of "evil" or some other abstract notion is burying your head in the sand.

[Peter Griffin]

Back up dude, I said there was no chance it was the only cause, but could well be a contributing factor, granted I didn't word it too well. I don't think it's too outlandish to say it was probably a number of things that lead up to it. But how many wrestlers have murdered there wife and kid then offed themselves? I know that's a blanket statement and again , I have no issue with saying what he went through in wrestling contributed to it, but I think to lay all the blame at wrestling's door is absurd.

[lotjx]

I think what people are forgetting about these studies is Nancy had a restraining order against him in 2002 to 2003 for violence. This is not something new. And if he was suffering from dementia at that time then the WWE is responsible for letting him go on, knowing something was wrong. Yet, there seems to be no indication of that at all. There are too many actions that make me question the "brain damage" excuse. And that is what it is right now, an excuse. An excuse for Benoit to go back and scream for him to be in the HOF. And don't say it isn't, because even JR has said he is sick to death of getting those emails from the IWC.

I am not saying brain damage shouldn't be studied, no where did I say that. I just said these studies are going to be inconclusive and rather pointless.I also didn't say I was an expert, I was saying from my experience his actions didn't make sense for someone that had dementia. For some reason, people are now experts on the other side of this issue. Saying my story was an anecdotes is the sickest word you could use for the story I shared with this board. For as stupid as you think I am for my opinions know its nothing on how I feel about most of you for seemingly going out of your way to diminish what I told you.

[McBain]

It's clearly got the makings of a good film plot. I'll probably check it out as long as the initial reviews are decent.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Back up dude, I said there was no chance it was the only cause, but could well be a contributing factor, granted I didn't word it too well. I don't think it's too outlandish to say it was probably a number of things that lead up to it. But how many wrestlers have murdered there wife and kid then offed themselves? I know that's a blanket statement and again , I have no issue with saying what he went through in wrestling contributed to it, but I think to lay all the blame at wrestling's door is absurd.

Why are you asking how many wrestlers have murdered their wife and kids? What has that got to do with anything? I have seen no one argue that repeated head injuries could cause someone to murder their wife and kids. The suggestion is that repeated brain injury could cause psychiatric illness. This includes depression, dementia, psychosis, substance abuse, erratic behaviour, loss of executive functions, various forms of memory loss or even just subtle personality changes or loss of cognitive function. You are an adult so you should have the ability to realise that brains are complicated organs and damage to brains manifests in different ways. It is very possible indeed that Chris Benoit's behaviour in murdering his wife and son were completely down to brain damage suffered during his career as a wrestler.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I think what people are forgetting about these studies is Nancy had a restraining order against him in 2002 to 2003 for violence. This is not something new. And if he was suffering from dementia at that time then the WWE is responsible for letting him go on, knowing something was wrong. Yet, there seems to be no indication of that at all. There are too many actions that make me question the "brain damage" excuse. And that is what it is right now, an excuse. An excuse for Benoit to go back and scream for him to be in the HOF. And don't say it isn't, because even JR has said he is sick to death of getting those emails from the IWC.

I am not saying brain damage shouldn't be studied, no where did I say that. I just said these studies are going to be inconclusive and rather pointless.I also didn't say I was an expert, I was saying from my experience his actions didn't make sense for someone that had dementia. For some reason, people are now experts on the other side of this issue. Saying my story was an anecdotes is the sickest word you could use for the story I shared with this board. For as stupid as you think I am for my opinions know its nothing on how I feel about most of you for seemingly going out of your way to diminish what I told you.

Chris Benoit died in 2007. It is very possible his behaviour would have been altered by brain injuries even going back to 2002/03, given that we are talking about a long-term chronic process.

There is no way you can possibly say with any authority that "studies" will be "inconclusive and pointless." This is a non sequitur. You can't say a study is inconclusive or pointless until you've looked at its design. Here are a number of questions we already have answers to:

- Does repeated head trauma and concussion cause subacute, chronic brain damage? Yes.

- Does chronic, subacute brain damage cause neurological or psychiatric illness? Yes. (This includes dementia, indeed, we know that dementia IS subacute chronic brain damage, caused either by repeated head injuries, multiple strokes or some other molecular disease process such as that in Alzheimer's disease)

- Can psychiatric illness result in erratic behaviour, including violence against oneself or others? Yes.

So really what any study would aim to find out is if professional wrestlers are at a higher risk of suffering repetitive brain trauma. This could be as simple as MRI-scanning professional wrestlers and comparing their brains to a suitable control group. Another study could be to compare rates of psychiatric illness in wrestlers vs. a suitable control group, or to include this as part of the same study with MRI scanning. Really it's about the welfare of wrestlers and whether they know the risks they are taking and if there is appropriate standards of care involved, such as banning a wrestler from performing for one full month after a concussion, limiting the number of direct blows to the head etc.

Your experience is literally worthless. This is not meant as an insult, it's just a fact. The word "anecdote" is precisely what your story is in this context. I have no idea why that would offend you.

Also, what age are you supposed to be? An excuse to get Chris Benoit in the Hall of Fame? Fuck off.

[Jimmy Zero]

Well said.

[Bill Casey]

But how many wrestlers have murdered there wife and kid then offed themselves?

Verne Gagne killed a guy in a nursing home with a body slam and had no recollection of it...

[Pete Cash]

This is also a concern for athletes in proper contact sports. Especially with the strength/speed/size increases from athletes over the last 10 to 15 years. Just as an example rugby league in Australia recently outlawed the shoulder charge altogether because of the potential for brain damage in later life. I believe the NFL has concerns over concussions, etc.

[lotjx]

If Beniot was having symptoms in 2003 to 2004 then Nancy's family should be suing the fuck out of the WWE. They are not. If he was having those symptoms no wrestler in the world would want to get in the ring with him instead everyone was lining up for him. The reality is we don't know anything about Chris Benoit, the person. We know all about the kick ass wrestler thanks to the wrestling PR machine. There are too many rational moments for me to think, he was out of his mind due to dementia. There is him being in public numerous times without an episode. There is him keeping Daniel away from Nancy for days. There are the text messages that were sent out and there was the visit to the Doctor's office. If anything, I suspect drugs to be a part of this more so than brain damage. Remember the doctor who got busted after this? Yeah, no one does.

Again, I am not saying the study is not needed, I am just saying its not going to be the smoking gun that people can use to feel better about Benoit. And yes, people will use the study to say "Hey, see, he wasn't a bad guy, he was just fucked up due to wrestling, so lets put him in the HOF and back on TV." That is what is going to happen and that is what is happening. JR's comments about it were in the last few months, this isn't shit I am making up, this is happening. I am not saying anyone here is doing it, I am just saying members of the IWC are using it as an excuse. It is clear there was a pattern of violence with him and Nancy. Now, if you want to say it was the concussions, go ahead, just know that what you are saying he was out of his mind in 2002-3 then wrestled for another four to five years without anyone saying a word about how fucked up he worse. The only time, people said he was fucked is when Eddie died. For all we know that could have been the trigger for him to set off on this suicide/murder quest.

Saying my experience dealing with this disease is worthless is bullshit. To deal with this disease, I had to research it and come to understand it. I am not saying I am an expert, but lets not pretend, everyone against me is either. Most of you are just parroting off of each other. I am also not saying concussions don't cause dementia or studies shouldn't be done. I am saying this particular case is not going to solve anything as for as why he murdered his wife and child. There is too much evidence showing he had a history of violence as well as a certain amount of rational thought behind it that causes me to question how much brain damaged, he had.

[Fanny]

What's this study you keep going on about? I'm genuinely asking and not having a go - I thought this was a thread about a morbid biopic, not a public inquiry

Edit - read the thread properly, see what study is in reference to. Perils of browsing with a phone!


I think you really need to chill out about people's 'motives' for wanting further investigation into brain damage. I also think you'd do well to consider the opinions of as close to an operating medical professional as the boards have in Cappy on the subject; as far as I can tell he has no agenda one way or another with regards the legacy of Chris Benoit.

Your constant dismissals/ignoring of the possibility that people suffering from dementia can rationalise and plan in some way their current/future circumstances is really pretty ignorant. So the guy went from A to B to C with a smile on his face part the way through while he brutally murdered his family, ergo no pre-existing brain conditions because a family member of yours exhibited different behaviour through Alzheimers. You must see how that logic is flawed, or at least questionable.

You also keep going on about excuses, excusing his behaviour. There's a huge difference between excusing behaviour and trying to figure out the underlying reason for it, otherwise no-one would ever be entered into prison or other rehabilitative institutions.

I volunteer with mentally ill people as well as suffer from mental illness myself, but I'm absolutely no expert in the subject. This is not a personal attack on you either, this is simply my unbiased view of the events themselves and my opnion on the flaws in your both your stance and attempt to argue it.

[Mik]

I wouldnt go getting upset about people trivialising your experiences as 'anecdotal'...they are. My Nanna died earlier last year after a prolonged slow seep into dementia and I probably shared a similar experience to you in terms of trying to deal with it by researching into and understanding the illness. However my views on the subject would still be anecdotal and I wouldnt be offended by people saying that they were.

[Jimmy Zero]

If Beniot was having symptoms in 2003 to 2004 then Nancy's family should be suing the fuck out of the WWE. They are not. If he was having those symptoms no wrestler in the world would want to get in the ring with him instead everyone was lining up for him. The reality is we don't know anything about Chris Benoit, the person. We know all about the kick ass wrestler thanks to the wrestling PR machine. There are too many rational moments for me to think, he was out of his mind due to dementia. There is him being in public numerous times without an episode. There is him keeping Daniel away from Nancy for days. There are the text messages that were sent out and there was the visit to the Doctor's office. If anything, I suspect drugs to be a part of this more so than brain damage. Remember the doctor who got busted after this? Yeah, no one does.

You keep saying you're no expert (which is obvious), and then post BS pseudo-expert analysis like the above paragraph. It's perfectly reasonable to suspect Benoit was showing signs of brain damage in 2003-04 considering he'd already been wrestling for almost 20 years, at that point. That was also a time when doctors, trainers and athletes knew even less about concussions and brain injuries and their effects (short and long term) on mood and behavior than they do now. Honestly, your entire rationale that he wasn't suffering the effects of brain damage, or CTE, severely enough to affect his mood or behavior is that he continued to wrestle and went out in public. You should really just stop.

Really, the only person I've seen with any sort of Benoit agenda is you. Nobody in this thread gives one fuck about Benoit getting in to the Fake Fighting Hall of Fame, and I suspect the IWC at large isn't clamoring for his moral exoneration and to be remembered as some sort of wrestling god that didn't kill his family.

Frankly, I find your stance on this pretty incredible based on the experience you had with your grandfather, and your supposed knowledge on the subject, even disregarding how completely not related the two cases are. Almost as incredible is you continually dismissing the points of the one guy who, like Fanny said, is the closest thing this board has to a medical professional. I'm going to weigh his opinion on this far more heavily than a guy who read a few pamphlets and did some google searches about Alzheimer's.

And, hell, you might even be right that Benoit just snapped and went off the deep end one day. But, to dismiss the effect these types of brain injuries cause, almost completely out of hand, is completely silly.

[Matthew]

plus i am sure you could use a lot 'sicker' words than anecdotal to describe a story.

either way that part was amazing. loved it.

probably will see the movie. i would love to see how 'hollywood' takes on some of the roles like vince and hhh. mmm yea

[virms]

After this comes out someone with good video editing skills should make the vince mcmahon directors cut version.

[The Rick]

probably will see the movie. i would love to see how 'hollywood' takes on some of the roles like vince and hhh. mmm yea

This :yes:

Plus I want to see the director's take on the business. How much action they show, and if they get any indie wrestlers to play any of the roles.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Presumably any wrestlers taking part in the film would be gambling with their careers.

[The Rick]

Presumably any wrestlers taking part in the film would be gambling with their careers.

Kinda. Only Vince would black list them. There are hundreds of Indie wrestlers in the US alone. There are only a finite number of WWE spots. If they don't think that Vince is ever going to look their way why wouldn't they? That is face exposure on screen, and they can then use that in their bookings. Promoters want to sell shows. If they think that having guys off of a new wrestling movie will sell some tickets, they will use it.

[The_Mike]

If Beniot was having symptoms in 2003 to 2004 then Nancy's family should be suing the fuck out of the WWE. They are not. If he was having those symptoms no wrestler in the world would want to get in the ring with him instead everyone was lining up for him. The reality is we don't know anything about Chris Benoit, the person. We know all about the kick ass wrestler thanks to the wrestling PR machine. There are too many rational moments for me to think, he was out of his mind due to dementia. There is him being in public numerous times without an episode. There is him keeping Daniel away from Nancy for days. There are the text messages that were sent out and there was the visit to the Doctor's office. If anything, I suspect drugs to be a part of this more so than brain damage. Remember the doctor who got busted after this? Yeah, no one does.

Again, I am not saying the study is not needed, I am just saying its not going to be the smoking gun that people can use to feel better about Benoit. And yes, people will use the study to say "Hey, see, he wasn't a bad guy, he was just fucked up due to wrestling, so lets put him in the HOF and back on TV." That is what is going to happen and that is what is happening. JR's comments about it were in the last few months, this isn't shit I am making up, this is happening. I am not saying anyone here is doing it, I am just saying members of the IWC are using it as an excuse. It is clear there was a pattern of violence with him and Nancy. Now, if you want to say it was the concussions, go ahead, just know that what you are saying he was out of his mind in 2002-3 then wrestled for another four to five years without anyone saying a word about how fucked up he worse. The only time, people said he was fucked is when Eddie died. For all we know that could have been the trigger for him to set off on this suicide/murder quest.

Saying my experience dealing with this disease is worthless is bullshit. To deal with this disease, I had to research it and come to understand it. I am not saying I am an expert, but lets not pretend, everyone against me is either. Most of you are just parroting off of each other. I am also not saying concussions don't cause dementia or studies shouldn't be done. I am saying this particular case is not going to solve anything as for as why he murdered his wife and child. There is too much evidence showing he had a history of violence as well as a certain amount of rational thought behind it that causes me to question how much brain damaged, he had.

You are not taking in what people are saying to you at all and coming off rather paranoid. Have you been hit in the head? What you call rational moments aren't necessarily rational, and having rational moments doesn't necessarily mean somebody's other behaviour isn't caused by or contributed to by brain damage. How many times must this be explained to you? Same with what the word 'anecdote' means. This is not a conspiracy to make you feel bad about your experiences with your relatives, this is a discussion about medical science. You're tilting at windmills, arguing against people who now even you admit aren't here. Why?

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Kinda. Only Vince would black list them. There are hundreds of Indie wrestlers in the US alone. There are only a finite number of WWE spots. If they don't think that Vince is ever going to look their way why wouldn't they? That is face exposure on screen, and they can then use that in their bookings. Promoters want to sell shows. If they think that having guys off of a new wrestling movie will sell some tickets, they will use it.

I'm assuming some of the film will also focus on Benoit's early career and the things he had to do to make a name for himself. In any dramaticised form of this story the natural way to go is to show him striving for success, compromising himself, gaining fame and fortune and ultimate suffering the consequences. I would think that the wrestling business in general will take a beating in any film that seeks to look at the Benoit story as a whole, precisely the sort of misgivings Cewsh was expressing before he had a word with himself.

And rightly so, the wrestling industry does deserve a highly public beating.

[The Rogerer]

lojtx seems to be in this two sided debate that doesn't exist. If there are real people out there clamouring for Benoit to be in the WWE Hall of Fame, and I'm sure they exist, then they are deranged in more ways than one. There is no-one of that opinion here.

[The Rogerer]

I'd just like to add that I think there has been improvements since the wellness policy post-Benoit, etc. I've been watching wrestling again since January, and then went back and watched Fully Loaded 2000, and the number of high risk and dangerous moves in the first match alone was ridiculous. It is shocking how violent it was compared to now.

[Seanny One Ball]

Now it's just fake MMA

[The Rick]

ign link (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/22/director-hired-for-chris-benoit-movie)
by Jim Vejvoda JULY 22, 2013




Director Hired for Chris Benoit Movie
Good's Vicente Amorim set to direct Crossface.

Filmmaker Vicente Amorim (Good) is set to direct Crossface, SRG Films' feature film adaptation of Matthew Randazzo's book Ring of Hell: The Story of Chris Benoit and the Fall of the Pro Wrestling Industry.

The movie, according to a past press release, "delves into the pressures WWE superstar Chris Benoit faced throughout his wrestling career as the combination of drug-use, depression, and head trauma became increasingly impossible for him to handle. The true story made headline news in 2007 when Chris murdered his wife and young son before taking his own life."

“Wrestling is showbiz taken to the extreme and Crossface is Limelight on steroids,” Amorim told Deadline. “Chris Benoit’s story is the perfect vehicle for a fiercely honest film that is as much about him and the world of wrestling as it is about America and show business. I am very happy to be on board to help tell this story.”

IGN recently ranked Chris Benoit 29th on our list of the Top 50 wrestlers of all time (http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/02/top-50-wrestlers-of-all-time?page=3).

[G-Fresh]

If there are real people out there clamouring for Benoit to be in the WWE Hall of Fame, and I'm sure they exist, then they are deranged in more ways than one. There is no-one of that opinion here.

Right here, buddy.

[The Rogerer]

Kevin Sullivan was into satanism

[G-Fresh]

He gets heckled hardcore at the GotJ every year he's there over Benoit. Me & some friends got a You Killed Chris chant going at the 2007 Gathering that I actually feel really bad over. I need to apologize to the dude if I ever get a chance.

[The Law]

Internet fanboys smearing Kevin Sullivan as a murderer because they can't except what their hero did makes me fucking sick. Seriously, the guy had his wife taken from him and then had that dude murder her. Despite all this, he really doesn't seem to express any malice or bitterness towards either of them, which is absolutely remarkable. Let's just leave the guy alone now, he's been through enough for one lifetime.