Brand Split: Yea or Nay?

[The Law]

So at this point WWE has almost entirely done away with the brand split. The only remnants of it are that John Cena and CM Punk rarely appear on Smackdown and most major storylines don't advance on Smackdown. Also, there are two world titles, but that's as much a function of the size of the roster right now. There are a lot of good arguments both for and against the split that I don't really feel like going over right now. The biggest one that stands out to me is that A) the roster is huge and B) it's incredibly deep, the best it has been since 2002. I think WWE definitely has the capacity to run two good, separate shows right now.

Personally, I generally oppose the brand split because I don't like only getting to see the guys I like once a week and I feel like it unnecessarily limits the interactions and feuds we can have. For me, the ideal arrangement would be a total end of the split, with Smackdown featuring Cena and Punk and being used to follow-up on the stories that took place on Raw. I would also unify the world titles and institute a new midcard title. Either the Cruiserweight Title or a Television Title that would defended on almost every Raw and Smackdown.

What should WWE do regarding the brand split? Strengthen it? Maintain the status quo? Or end it entirely?

[Morrison]

i think someone on here said it best, and i'm sorry i can't give credit, but unifying the world and WWE titles and then going on to book the IC title like they book the world heavyweight title would be the best course of action, as far as titles go.

[Judas Iscariot]

They don't have to unify anything, really.

They have 6,000 hours worth of programming per week.

What they need is to give a shot about booking.

There's no reason good feuds can't be built around all of the titles, Tag and Divas included, with how much time they have on TV and with the ridiculous depth of talent they have on the roster but don't use.

I know everyone goes on about the recaps and app plugs and whatever and I feel like that gets a little cliche because its only down for a minute or two at a clip. But, lets just day, 15 minutes of a 240 minute broadcast, that's 15 minutes to build feuds and that's all it takes.

[Simmo Fortyone]

I was all for the brand split, but don't really give a shit that it's gone.

They could finally start using Smackers as the B show it's always been and build feuds around the Tag/US titles. And maybe some midcard feuds without titles.

I still don't get what unifying the WWE and WHC titles is supposed to achieve.

[Version 6]

I was all for the brand split, but don't really give a shit that it's gone.

They could finally start using Smackers as the B show it's always been and build feuds around the Tag/US titles. And maybe some midcard feuds without titles.

I still don't get what unifying the WWE and WHC titles is supposed to achieve.

I think having two "world" championships devalues each of them to some extent.

Neither championship is the championship of the entire company (because there are two), so what are each of them really?

[Judas Iscariot]

Well the one called the WWE Championship would seem to be the championship of the WWE company, yeah?

[G-Fresh]

The brand split was dope for a while. Like when Raw & SD had their own PPVs.

[chatty]

I'd just like them to pick either way and fully commit to it. If there is no split then unify the titles, boost up the IC and have the US as a lower mid-card title.

If not then commit to a brand split and at least make SD worthwhile with their own champ and only keep both brand match ups for big events.

[chatty]

The WHC devalues the WWE title because they use it as a trial horse to the real title but because the people have already been champion it makes the time come when they win the WWE title less special or less meaningful.

I mean say Dolph wins it, in reality they are saying he is the best in the company at that time or at least want him to be perceived as that being the main champ, that should be his crowning moment where he has really made it but its not because he has held the WHC twice and claimed to be a legit world champ when really he never was.

Just as one example.

[Tainted Eclipse]

I like what they're doing now generally. RAW is their clear flagship show, SD is a far secondary show that furthers angles somewhat and Main Event and Superstars can showcase guys they don't have time for on the main shows. The brand split was good at times, but I definitely don't want them to go back to it. They just need to use their time better and do something about the WHC and WWE title, because it really doesn't make the least bit of sense right now. WWE is clearly the big title, but WHC is still around, obviously inferior, but not explicitly recognized as inferior so it's in a weird spot kay-fabe wise, although it does well the job it's supposed to do: be a big deal for guys on the cusp of the main event. I'd like them to keep it around, but recognize explicitly it's inferior to the WWE title, and maybe unify the US Title and IC Title, because I think it would be hard to make the IC title as over as the WHC is right now, even with it obviously being secondary to the WWE title.

[McBain]

The brand split was dope for a while. Like when Raw & SD had their own PPVs.

Were any of them that good though? Kudos to them for committing to the split and trying to make it work properly but I always felt the cards were too shallow on the brand exclusive PPVs.

[G-Fresh]

Yeah man. There were some really good matches on some of them. Especially on the SD PPVs.

[The Rogerer]

The WHC devalues the WWE title because they use it as a trial horse to the real title but because the people have already been champion it makes the time come when they win the WWE title less special or less meaningful.

I mean say Dolph wins it, in reality they are saying he is the best in the company at that time or at least want him to be perceived as that being the main champ, that should be his crowning moment where he has really made it but its not because he has held the WHC twice and claimed to be a legit world champ when really he never was.

Just as one example.Completely agree with this. May I add that Dolph isn't even a heavyweight.

[Psycho666Soldier]

I like what they're doing now generally. RAW is their clear flagship show, SD is a far secondary show that furthers angles somewhat and Main Event and Superstars can showcase guys they don't have time for on the main shows. The brand split was good at times, but I definitely don't want them to go back to it. They just need to use their time better and do something about the WHC and WWE title, because it really doesn't make the least bit of sense right now. WWE is clearly the big title, but WHC is still around, obviously inferior, but not explicitly recognized as inferior so it's in a weird spot kay-fabe wise, although it does well the job it's supposed to do: be a big deal for guys on the cusp of the main event. I'd like them to keep it around, but recognize explicitly it's inferior to the WWE title, and maybe unify the US Title and IC Title, because I think it would be hard to make the IC title as over as the WHC is right now, even with it obviously being secondary to the WWE title.

This is an option I hadn't considered when preaching Title Unification before. Acknowledging the WHC as the "Upper Midcard" belt rather than THE main event belt solves the problem of having both around, and allows the IC/US to be unified with purpose, allowing for a good low-to-midcard belt that they can focus on well without having to split time between the two belts. I would be all for that.

[MikeHunt]

Maybe the should make the whc a jr heavyweight title like njpw. Anyone under 220lbs can compete for it and treat it as a stepping stone for smaller wrestlers to make the jump to the wwe title.

[Version 6]

Well the one called the WWE Championship would seem to be the championship of the WWE company, yeah?

So since the world is bigger than the company I suppose that means the WHC is more prestigious than the WWE title?

You're being purposely obtuse here. You can see the problem. Two titles is dumb with no brand split.

[HHHnFoley_Rulez]

Split John Cena in 2, put him on both shows, enforce brand split, profit.

Or.. Cena on RAW, Darren Young on SD!. Done.

[SteveM]

Split John Cena in 2, put him on both shows, enforce brand split, profit.

Did you forget to mention him winning both belts, or does that go without saying...

[Mark Hammer]

The brand split was dope for a while. Like when Raw & SD had their own PPVs.

Most of those pay per views fucking sucked due to the company gutting itself of it's draws for the sake of a fake brand split.

[Kneeneighbor]

The problem with the split is Smackdown is on at a terrible time/night for a majority of people. I for one am not going to make Smackdown my Friday night routine regardless of who and what is going on. Now there are a handful of guys I enjoy watching now, the more of them that move to smackdown exclusively the less likely I am to watch RAW.

[Mark Hammer]

I think having two "world" championships devalues each of them to some extent.

Neither championship is the championship of the entire company (because there are two), so what are each of them really?
There is no question that having the two world championships devalues both titles. It was a poor idea when it actually made sense, now that there is literally no call for two champions I can't fathom why they continue to water them down.

[Mark Hammer]

Yeah man. There were some really good matches on some of them. Especially on the SD PPVs.

Definitely not worth chunking 60 bucks based on what they'd put on the lineup. The split ppvs were an unbelievably stupid idea.

[The Law]

The single brand PPVs were pretty weak for the most part. When the rosters were fairly balanced in 2003 it was fine, but when Smackdown got fucked over in 2004 (Brock left, Big Show hurt, Angle hurt, Benoit and Edge jumped to Raw) their shows were a total disaster. Judgment Day 2004 was a pretty big train wreck, saved by a great Eddie/JBL match in the main event. That show featured such classic matches as: Torrie Wilson vs. Dawn Marie, Scotty 2 Hotty vs. Mordecai, Charlie Haas and Rico vs. Hardcore Holly and Billy Gunn, and Chavo Guerrero vs. Jacqueline. Then Great American Bash was even worse, featuring: Luther Reigns vs. Charlie Haas, Kenzo Suzuki vs. Billy Gunn, Sable vs. Torrie Wilson, and Mordecai vs. Hardcore Holly. The shows got better after that, but they scrapped the brand-exclusive shows because the Smackdown PPVs were drawing poorly. It just doesn't make a ton of sense from a business (or creative, in my opinion) perspective to only feature half your talent at a time.

[Cewsh]

The problem with the split is Smackdown is on at a terrible time/night for a majority of people. I for one am not going to make Smackdown my Friday night routine regardless of who and what is going on. Now there are a handful of guys I enjoy watching now, the more of them that move to smackdown exclusively the less likely I am to watch RAW.

Do you not have a DVR? I think wide availability of those has taken the edge off of the whole "weekends are death to shows" thing. Hell, Sunday is the biggest tv night of the week now.

[Andy]

Eddie/JBL is so overrated. :no:

[Ringo]

Incorrect. It's amazing.

[Cewsh]

Incorrect. It's awful.

[OD50]

I must rewatch it sometime, all I remember is blood.. Lots of blood.

[Slare]

It was pretty plodding until THAT chair shot but fuck it, viuals and drama can make a match great - and the last 5 minutes were great.

Also, I miss LUTHER REIGNS.

I HAD PEAS BEFO

[Ringo]

In hindsight the blood loss should probably be criticised heavily if we're being reasonable. It's disgusting and reckless.

But yeah I fucking love ittttttt :panic:

[Ringo]

Also, I miss LUTHER REIGNS.

I HAD PEAS BEFO

He was legitimately amazing. I feel bad for anyone who didn't recognise that. Including him, apparently, because he packed it in right after getting released.

[Slare]

He was brilliant as a big doofus angry heel. Incredible unintentional comedy and actually fairly solid in the ring. Also his music was fucking great.

[Ringo]

Shame about Mark Jindrak.

[Chris]

Were any of them that good though? Kudos to them for committing to the split and trying to make it work properly but I always felt the cards were too shallow on the brand exclusive PPVs.

Check out Vengeance 2003 and Judgement Day 2006 if you get the chance. Both Smackdown PPVs and both were very good. But you're right, there were times that the cards were pathetic because there simply wasn't enough star power on them and the undercard was thrown together.

[Cewsh]

See: Any Great American Bash WWE ever produced.

[Slare]

Shame about Mark Jindrak.
DA REFLECTION, OF PAHFECTION

[G-Fresh]

Definitely not worth chunking 60 bucks based on what they'd put on the lineup. The split ppvs were an unbelievably stupid idea.

At the time I didn't really care how much they cost. I liked a lot of the undercard/tag matches.

[Andy]

I don't think the brand split is a good idea at this point. Raw being much longer than SD is the main issue. I strongly feel they should unify the titles as soon as possible. The only real objection I've heard to it is that it would cause them trouble for live events. But really, does anyone going to a SD event at the moment care if ADR is there or not? They know they're going to the secondary show. As long as they have a few big names on the SD branded tour, I really don't think it makes any difference.

[Hero!]

The brand split doesn't even exist anymore. They've unified the tag and women's title, did away with the draft TWO years ago, and the champions of both shows wrestle on...both shows. "Brand split" exists only in the house show schedule.

[G-Fresh]

Right, and that brings way too much money to do away with.

[The Law]

I don't think the house show business would suffer much at all without the WHC. People are going to see the product and the guys featured. As long as one show has Cena and the other has Punk and Orton, or something along those lines, things should be fine. They ran two sets of house shows for years before they had a brand split or two heavyweight titles.

[Hero!]

Exactly, keep the house show shit split, as long as the main roster stays unified. WWE.com doesn't even differentiate anymore. The only thing I feel strongly about is WWE unifying the world titles and midcard belts.

Then bring back this beauty:

http://tnawwe.lapunk.hu/tarhely/tnawwe/kepek/eurobelt.jpg

[The Law]

I'd prefer a Television Title, but I agree that if they dumped the World Heavyweight Championship they would need to replace it with a midcard title.

[VHS]

The only "brands" that I see now are WWE and NXT. It would be huge fun seeing guys like Cory Graves and Adrian Neville get over on actuall WWE television. The amount of talent and potential from this little show is already starting to outweigh the main roster.

[Hero!]

I'd prefer a Television Title, but I agree that if they dumped the World Heavyweight Championship they would need to replace it with a midcard title.

A TV title would be great for the workhorse guys, but i'd go apeshit seeing the Euro title again.

[Chris]

There is no question that having the two world championships devalues both titles. It was a poor idea when it actually made sense, now that there is literally no call for two champions I can't fathom why they continue to water them down.
Two titles allows them to have their cake and eat it. They can put the spotlight on a rising star or give a veteran their moment in the sun with one belt, while still having the other belt around the waist of their top star and churn out a bunch of feuds where we're led to believe that Cena will be absolutely decimated and has absolutely no chance of winning.

He's been a WWE or World Champion for most of the years that he's been in the main event, and that's likely to continue. So while it's annoying when someone is only deemed worthy of winning the lesser World Title, its existence has been a good litmus test for some of the wrestlers and a way of giving them a record to brag about. I'm all for binning it and just having one World Champion. Similarly, I don't like having both the Intercontinental and United States Titles. But reducing the number of titles isn't guaranteed to change anything. Ultimately, it's the booking which has devalued both the main event and mid-card titles. More compelling characters, exciting feuds and a real sense of competition for those titles would restore their value.

[wardy]

They should either build towards a unification of the WHC and WWE titles at Wrestlemania or just come out and admit that the WHC isn't on par with the big one. Then they could get rid of/unify one of the lesser titles in the process.

[VHS]

Is it really necessary to have the WH title on the same level as the WWE title? Why would there be a need to admit it's not on par when there's no implication of such? It's the IC title of this generation.

[G-Fresh]

Then bring back this beauty:

http://tnawwe.lapunk.hu/tarhely/tnawwe/kepek/eurobelt.jpg

How about no?

I'd rather see a reinstated WCW TV Title or something on the like. It has a prestigious lineeage other than Jim Duggan finding it in the trash, and that still ain't as bad as Chyna holding the IC Title.

[Hero!]

World champs who held the Euro title: Michaels, Trips, Henry, The Hardys, Kurt Angle, Jericho, Bradshaw, DDP, RVD, Christian

Non world champs, but still notable: Bulldog, Regal, Shane O'Mac, X-Pac

The European championship has a tremendous lineage and was never THROWN IN THE GARBAGE.

Not to mention, you've got a roster fulla Europeans to hold it now. Just have Cesaro win the US title, vacate it, and reinstate this puppy. DONE.

[G-Fresh]

I reckon the stuff with Mideon and the Euro belt was close to that.

[The Law]

Mideon found the European Title in Shane McMahon's bag. He asked him if he could have it and that was how he became champion.

The Television Title was created in 1974. Some of wrestling's greatest legends held the title: Ivan Koloff, Ric Flair, Mr. Wrestling, Greg Valentine, Ricky Steamboat, Roddy Piper, Tully Blanchard, Dusty Rhodes, Nikita Koloff, Sting, Arn Anderson, Barry Windham, Steve Austin, Paul Orndorff, Larry Zbyszko, Lex Luger, Diamond Dallas Page, Steven Regal, Fit Finlay, Booker T, Rick Martel, Chris Benoit, Rick Steiner, Scott Steiner, and Scott Hall.

I got carried away there, but that's an awesome list of champions. Unfortunately, stupid fucking Vince Russo decided it was a good idea to have Hall throw the belt in the trash on TV. If we made a list of the most unforgivable things Russo ever did, that would be high on the list. Spitting on the legacy of a 25 year-old championship for a cheap laugh.

For comparison, the European Title was around for about six years. There are some great wrestlers who held that title, but nothing like the TV Title.

[Version 6]

They should just have the WWE Title, the Intercontinentil title (in the place that the WHC currently holds), the Divas title, the tag titles and they should have the US Title be subject to TV title rules (defended on every show, 10 minute time limit, 15 min on PPVs).

[Hero!]

Mideon found the European Title in Shane McMahon's bag. He asked him if he could have it and that was how he became champion.

The Television Title was created in 1974. Some of wrestling's greatest legends held the title: Ivan Koloff, Ric Flair, Mr. Wrestling, Greg Valentine, Ricky Steamboat, Roddy Piper, Tully Blanchard, Dusty Rhodes, Nikita Koloff, Sting, Arn Anderson, Barry Windham, Steve Austin, Paul Orndorff, Larry Zbyszko, Lex Luger, Diamond Dallas Page, Steven Regal, Fit Finlay, Booker T, Rick Martel, Chris Benoit, Rick Steiner, Scott Steiner, and Scott Hall.

I got carried away there, but that's an awesome list of champions. Unfortunately, stupid fucking Vince Russo decided it was a good idea to have Hall throw the belt in the trash on TV. If we made a list of the most unforgivable things Russo ever did, that would be high on the list. Spitting on the legacy of a 25 year-old championship for a cheap laugh.

For comparison, the European Title was around for about six years. There are some great wrestlers who held that title, but nothing like the TV Title.

Yeah, I know my history, but the fucking TV title doesn't have the Portuguese flag on it. Therefore, European championship > TV belt thing.

[Kimura Kid]

Exactly, keep the house show shit split, as long as the main roster stays unified. WWE.com doesn't even differentiate anymore. The only thing I feel strongly about is WWE unifying the world titles and midcard belts.

Then bring back this beauty:

http://tnawwe.lapunk.hu/tarhely/tnawwe/kepek/eurobelt.jpg

Could you of picked a more fucked up image to show the title off with? lmao

[G-Fresh]

Fuck Europe.

[Hero!]

Could you of picked a more fucked up image to show the title off with? lmao

omfg bro come at me im fuckin jacked

[Kimura Kid]

Bro,

Do you even lift?

[G-Fresh]

Do you even bro?

[VHS]

Yeah, I don't like the idea of having the European title when 95% of the time WWE shows aren't in Europe. I for one want a World Jobber title where whoever loses the match keeps the title.

[Hero!]

http://sharetv.org/images/guide/621124.jpg

?

[wardy]

Is it really necessary to have the WH title on the same level as the WWE title? Why would there be a need to admit it's not on par when there's no implication of such? It's the IC title of this generation.
Of course they imply that it's on the same level as the WWE title. They always have, they just don't book it like it is. When you win the Royal Rumble or MITB briefcase you get a shot at one of the 2 big titles. They haven't turned that privilege into a choice between the big title and a midcard title. In theory anyway. That's why they need to stop the charade and either unify the titles or remove the WHC shot from these matches and start to acknowledge that it's #2.

[Atty]

The titles should be merged at WM 30. Punk vs. Cena. Title vs. Title.

[Version 6]

The titles should be merged at WM 30. Punk vs. Cena. Title vs. Title.

YES

Lock thread.

[virms]

Sting vs. Taker as other main event.

[G-Fresh]

YES

Lock thread.

It would never happen. Punk wouldn't want to lose.

[Atty]

:rofl:

[wardy]

Sounds good. Cena v The Streak will have to wait another year. Hopefully Taker's not dead by then.

[Brian M.]

Being dead hasn't stopped Taker from wrestling hundreds of other matches.