Alternate Wrestling History...

[BullyRayStoleMyLunch]

Complete Newbie here, so in an attempt to make a... sigh... Impact early on, here goes!

Pretty much any of you who've watched any time travel movie ever will get the idea of this: one thing changing in history has the potential to change much more after it - thought it could be fun for some speculation.


Anybody can feel free to discuss which starting points they like, but I'll set one to start:

What changes afterwards in a world where Dr. Death OWNS Bart Gunn in Brawl for All?

Hope you enjoy...

[MikeHunt]

I think everything would have been the same and everyone would have continued to condemn Brawl for All as a pish idea.

What would have happened if austin had died from his broken neck.

[Hero!]

WWE would have gone out of business and we'd be watching WCW Monday Night Nitro RAW every week. Owen Hart probably would have retired and not died.

What if John Cena never dressed as Vanilla Ice for Halloween and got his rapping gimmick?

[BullyRayStoleMyLunch]

I think everything would have been the same and everyone would have continued to condemn Brawl for All as a pish idea.

What would have happened if austin had died from his broken neck.

Piledrivers pretty much banned, along with a few other neck compression moves. Given that WWE were in a boom period at the time, I'd expect a Benoitesque media interest, also.

[The Law]

If Steve Williams had not been knocked out by Bart Gunn in the Brawl for All I believe he would have been built up throughout the Summer of 1998 as an unstoppable force. After Summerslam, when Steve Austin defeated Undertaker to retain the WWF Championship, he needed a new opponent. I think that would have been the time for Dr. Death to make his move. Steve Williams vs. Steve Austin at Breakdown for the WWF Championship. Because Jim Ross is known to be a friend of both of them, it wouldn't surprise me if he had gotten involved in the storyline in some capacity. I could even see McMahon having him officiate either the first match or the rematch at Judgment Day. Williams would have proclaimed himself the "Toughest S.O.B. in the World" in contrast to Austin being the Toughest S.O.B. in the WWF. Williams would not have won the title, although it wouldn't be surprising if there had been some kind of controversial finish to set up the Deadly Game Tournament at Survivor Series.

I think Austin and Williams would have fought to a Double DQ at Breakdown in order to set up a rematch at Judgment Day where JR would have been the referee. Ultimately, Austin would have retained his title when JR sided with him over Williams.

[BullyRayStoleMyLunch]

WWE would have gone out of business and we'd be watching WCW Monday Night Nitro RAW every week. Owen Hart probably would have retired and not died.

What if John Cena never dressed as Vanilla Ice for Halloween and got his rapping gimmick?

DEFINITELY with you on Owen retiring. I don't think he could have just taken it as "What goes in the ring".

Cena: About 6 more months of "Ruthless Aggression", maybe a few months as a Heel sidekick (maybe Angle takes him under his wing), few more months of B shows, until Creative "has nothing for him".

[The Law]

What if the AWA had put the title on Hulk Hogan in 1982?

So the story here is that Hogan was insanely over (doing the same act he would later do in the WWF). He was blowing the roof off every arena he went to and selling them all out. Verne Gagne was a wrestling traditionalist and didn't want to put the title on Hogan, viewing him as a showman with little true wrestling talent. Thus, they did a series of Dusty Finishes where Hogan was briefly awarded the title before being stripped. Eventually, Hogan got a bigger offer from the WWF and jumped ship. The rest is history, the AWA went out of business, Hogan became the most popular wrestler in history, and Vince McMahon conquered the wrestling world.

So what if the AWA had pulled the trigger on Hogan? He definitely would have kept them around longer. A company with Hulk Hogan on top in the 1980s isn't going out of business. I think the WWF's national expansion would have been delayed because Vince wouldn't have had a guy to run with the ball. Paul Orndorff? Snuka? Nope. I think he would have held off on making his move until later in the 1980s, after he signed Randy Savage. Savage would have been the top guy. Hogan would have come over to New York eventually, because the money would have been too much to turn down. But he would have the new challenger to Savage's crown, not the top guy. I think the WWF's expansion and takeover of the wrestling industry was inevitable due to changing technology and their ownership of the New York TV market. But it would have been pushed back without Hogan.

[BullyRayStoleMyLunch]

What if the AWA had put the title on Hulk Hogan in 1982?

So the story here is that Hogan was insanely over (doing the same act he would later do in the WWF). He was blowing the roof off every arena he went to and selling them all out. Verne Gagne was a wrestling traditionalist and didn't want to put the title on Hogan, viewing him as a showman with little true wrestling talent. Thus, they did a series of Dusty Finishes where Hogan was briefly awarded the title before being stripped. Eventually, Hogan got a bigger offer from the WWF and jumped ship. The rest is history, the AWA went out of business, Hogan became the most popular wrestler in history, and Vince McMahon conquered the wrestling world.

So what if the AWA had pulled the trigger on Hogan? He definitely would have kept them around longer. A company with Hulk Hogan on top in the 1980s isn't going out of business. I think the WWF's national expansion would have been delayed because Vince wouldn't have had a guy to run with the ball. Paul Orndorff? Snuka? Nope. I think he would have held off on making his move until later in the 1980s, after he signed Randy Savage. Savage would have been the top guy. Hogan would have come over to New York eventually, because the money would have been too much to turn down. But he would have the new challenger to Savage's crown, not the top guy. I think the WWF's expansion and takeover of the wrestling industry was inevitable due to changing technology and their ownership of the New York TV market. But it would have been pushed back without Hogan.

This, my friend, is an EXCELLENT example of what I was hoping to achieve, Kudos!

I'd argue the effects would go even further. Gagne, I believe, wouldn't have had Vince's lust for making Wrestling into "Sports Entertainment", so possibly Hogan sticks with his more technical moveset, as he would in Japan.

Vince, without Hogan, doesn't have his foot in the door to the "Mainstream" he would need to start Wrestlemania. If you look at the list of celebs at Mania I, I don't feel even Savage could have had the crossover appeal to make it stick like Hogan did, at the time, or later down the line.

With Rocky 3, and his return, the Title, starting Mania - it was all just a case of the right thing striking at the right time, a before unseen explosion.

That's what makes this Alt. History thing so interesting for me, the what ifs.

[Cewsh]

Excellent thread, man. Big time welcome to the site. :yes:

[BullyRayStoleMyLunch]

Many thanks, dude!

Figured if I'm gonna join, I may as well go in, rather than "Hi, I'm 29, and I really like Taker..." ;)

[Hero!]

29? You're too old to be watching pretend fighting, NERD.


Err, I mean, welcome...

[Cewsh]

:mad:

[BullyRayStoleMyLunch]

29? You're too old to be watching pretend fighting, NERD.


Err, I mean, welcome...

You mean I'm not even allowed to dance along with Brodus?

You Meanie.

You breaker of dreams... ;)

[The Rosk]

Good thread.

What if Bart Gunn had knocked out Butterbean?

[BullyRayStoleMyLunch]

If Gunn KOs him, he's made.

Vince's reason for living is to be accepted as more than just a wrestling promoter. Vincent would treat it like he knocked out Tyson.

At least one WWF Title, a few feuds with some of the main Attitude Era players. The talking might have let him down, but it was a more manager friendly time, so to some extent, it would have been compensated for.

[Fanny Batter]

If Gunn had kayoed Butterbean, they'd probably have thrown in him in a feud with Severn and Shamrock, can't see him getting a much bigger role considering as a pro wrestler he was pretty damn average. He'd have gotten that big boost then fallen off, because he wasn't a star. If they ran it NOW perhaps he'd have a chance on top, but not with Austin, Rock, Mankind, Show, Triple H and Kane kicking about. He'd have gotten an IC title and maybe a PPV on top against Austin when he didn't have the belt, like King of the Ring.

What if Austin's career is ended at Summerslam '97?

[Andy]

Probably wouldn't have been that different. Vince still would've screwed Bret so the evil boss still would've been born. Rocky probably would've taken his place as the most charismatic guy on the roster.

[BullyRayStoleMyLunch]

I'd still contend Gunn would have at least one WWF Title run. With Vince and Russian there, no way are 5they not putting the belt on a guy who beats a legitimate fighter in a legitimate contest, in a WWF ring, on the biggest day of the year. He won't be Austin, but he'd do alright.

Besides, since when has decent ringwork stopped success... ;)



If Austin retires, and we assume Montreal happens as per the original timeline, Rock would probably be the best bet for the Austin role come XIV.

But, given that they've had long running issues, would that be viable?

EDIT - Andy beat me!

[The Law]

If Austin had been retired or killed at Summerslam 1997 it probably would have ended up putting WWE out of business. First, the repercussions of Austin actually dying in the ring on live PPV would have been absolutely devastating for the company. There's a good shot Austin's widow would have sued WWF and Owen at a time when the company was on pretty shaky financial footing. Also, Brian Pillman dying shortly thereafter would have been a much bigger deal. We might have actually gotten drug testing implemented in the late-1990s due to all the bad publicity they would have been getting.

It's easy to say Rock would have slid into Austin's spot, but it never would have worked that soon. He was a few months removed from "Die Rocky Die" chants. His heel character worked because the fans absolutely fucking hated him. Trying to turn him face and push him to the moon that quickly probably would have backfired horribly. So then Michaels gets his back broken at the Royal Rumble (let's assume that still happened in this timeline. If not for the back injury, other injuries or his drug use would have taken him out of the picture eventually). WWF is rolling in 1998 with Undertaker, Kane, Mankind, Rock, and Triple H. It's easy to look back and say that it's a great group of talent, but other than Taker none of them was terribly over at the time. Foley only get over after Hell in a Cell and Mr. Socko. Kane was a complimentary character. Taker, for all his greatness, has really never been the primary focus of a promotion. He's always been a supporting player.

I look at that landscape and I'm pretty sure they end up going bankrupt. Vince was in such dire straits financially in 1997 that he couldn't afford to pay Bret $1 million/year. The slightest shock to their finances, like the hit they would have taken from losing Austin and the negative publicity associated with the fallout, and there's a reasonable chance WCW finishes them off. Turner buys out McMahon and WCW wins the Monday Night War. Vince McMahon ends up working for Ted Turner and Eric Bischoff, probably as an on-screen authority figure. The invasion angle is a massive failure because Hogan, Nash, Goldberg, and the other top WCW guys refuse to put over any of the WWF guys. WCW still gets into financial trouble because of the AOL/Time Warner merger and Bill Busch kicking them off TNT and TBS. I guess WCW ends up on USA?

One potential saving grace (maybe): If Austin is out of the picture, Vince probably can't let Bret go. He bites the bullet and pays him his money. No Screw Job. I think Mr. McMahon still emerges because they seemed to be going that direction during the course of the year anyway (Bret, Faarooq, Michaels, and Austin all challenging McMahon's authority). But who does he feud with? Bret Hart can do many things, but badass anti-authority face really isn't in his repertoire. Shawn would be good in that role, but odds are he ends up faltering to injuries and drug abuse. Taker? Not sure it fits. At least not nearly as well as Austin did. Overall, I just think it would have destroyed Vince to lose Austin in 1997.

[The Rosk]

What if Scott Hall had been straight edge?

[BullyRayStoleMyLunch]

I think it hits Vince a lot harder, but not takes him fully out.


If it were Austin retired, rather than dead in the ring, chances are they'd be giving him the Droz, wage for life treatment, to avoid such a lawsuit.

With Austin out of the picture, it'd kinda be like after Hogan left and the "New Generation Era" started, with no clear, definable Austin-like figurehead for a while, for reasons you've quite rightly detailed.

But with 2hrs of Raw a week, a PPV a month - I feel there would have been time, if booked accordingly, to get Rock there.

Vince would have to cut back a hell of a lot, but he'd pawn everything he owns before giving up.

[BullyRayStoleMyLunch]

What if Scott Hall had been straight edge?

I think he'd be on the writing team.

There have been a fair few accounts of Hall, when not under the influence, having a great mind for the business. It was supposedly him who convinced HBK to go with the Superkick for his finisher.

So yeah, I'd say either the writing team, or a Road Agent by now.

[Kneeneighbor]

How about a WOrld TItle Run for starters?

[BullyRayStoleMyLunch]

He'd have a fair few WCW Titles. I'd say a couple of WWFs too. The sobriety really was the only flaw with him. Same as Jake. If Jake could have never touched the poisons, he would have only got better throught the 90s.

[BullyRayStoleMyLunch]

Incidentally, though this is a double post (apologies), I should point out I have literally this SECOND found the dedicated new. members subforum...

Oh well, I'm here now... ;)