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View Full Version : The 9th Annual Wilfred's Debates - Final Four -The Law vs. Rip



Cewsh
May 22nd, 2013, 1:27 PM
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WWE FORUM VS. THE ASYLUM


In yet another completely improbable event, you have been but in charge of the WWE championship committee, giving you complete control of what happen with WWE's championships and which ones are represented on screen. Vince McMahon has handed down the instruction that you may not remove any current ones from television and that you must bring back one retired championship to television. Which begs the question...



IF YOU COULD BRING BACK ONE RETIRED TITLE, OWNED BY WWE, WHICH WOULD YOU CHOOSE?


Here is a list of the defunct WWE Championships:


Defunct championships [edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_former_championships_in_WW E&action=edit&section=5)]




#
Championship
Date of entry
First champion(s)
(Tag team name)
Date retired
Final champion(s)
(Tag team name)
Notes


1
WWF United States Tag Team Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWF_United_States_Tag_Team_Championship)
1958
Don Curtis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Curtis)and Mark Lewin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Lewin)
1967
Spiros Arion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiros_Arion)and Bruno Sammartino (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Sammartino)
The title was retired without a formal announcement.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WWWFUSTT-4)


2
WWWF United States Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWWF_United_States_Championship)
1963
Pedro Morales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Morales)
February 1976
Bobo Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobo_Brazil)
The title was retired without a formal announcement.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WWWFUSTitle-7)


3
WWF North American Heavyweight Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWF_North_American_Heavyweight_Championship)
March 1979
"Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_DiBiase)
March 20, 1981
Seiji Sakaguchi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seiji_Sakaguchi)
The title was retired without a formal announcement.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WWFNAHeavyweight-14)


4
WWF International Heavyweight Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWF_International_Heavyweight_Championship)
1959
Antonino Rocca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonino_Rocca)
July 23, 1984
Akira Maeda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_Maeda)
The title was retired without a formal announcement.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WWFUWAInternational-8)


5
WWF Junior Heavyweight Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWF_Junior_Heavyweight_Championship)
1967
Johnny De Fazio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_De_Fazio)
October 31, 1985
The Cobra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Takano)
The title was retired after NJPW and the WWF ended their partnership.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WWFJRHeavyweight-12)


6
WWF International Tag Team Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWF_International_Tag_Team_Championship)
June 1969
Toru Tanaka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Kalani,_Jr.)and Mitsu Arakwa
(Rising Suns)
October 31, 1985
Tatsumi Fujinami (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatsumi_Fujinami) andKengo Kimura (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kengo_Kimura)
The title was retired after NJPW and the WWF ended their partnership.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WWFInternationaltagteam-10)


7
WWF Canadian Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWF_Canadian_Championship)
August 18, 1985
Dino Bravo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dino_Bravo)
January 22, 1986
Dino Bravo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dino_Bravo)
Bravo was the only champion as a result of the WWF abandoning the title without a formal announcement.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WWFCanadatitle-15)


8
WWF Women's Tag Team Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWF_Women%27s_Tag_Team_Championship)
1970
Velvet McIntyre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_McIntyre) andPrincess Victoria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickie_Otis)
1989
Leilani Kai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leilani_Kai)and Judy Martin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_Martin_(wrestler))
(The Glamour Girls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Glamour_Girls))
The title was abandoned by the WWF without a formal announcement.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WWFWomenstagteam-16)


9
WWF World Martial Arts Heavyweight Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWF_World_Martial_Arts_Heavyweight_Championship)
December 18, 1978
Antonio Inoki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Inoki)
1989
The Great Muta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keiji_Mutoh)
The title was retired after NJPW and the WWF ended their partnership.[a] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#endnote_1b)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WWFMartialarts-13)


10
WWF Intercontinental Tag Team Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWF_Intercontinental_Tag_Team_Championship)
July 1991
Perro Aguayo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perro_Aguayo) andGran Hamada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Hamada)
1991
Perro Aguayo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perro_Aguayo) andGran Hamada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Hamada)
Aguayo and Hamada were the only champions as a result of the WWF retiring the title without a formal announcement.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WWFIntercontinentaltagteam-17)


11
WCW World Tag Team Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WCW_World_Tag_Team_Championship)
March 23, 2001[b] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#endnote_2a)
Sean O' Haire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_O%27_Haire) andChuck Palumbo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Palumbo)[c] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#endnote_3a)
November 18, 2001
Bubba Ray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_LoMonaco)and D-Von Dudley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devon_Hughes)
(Dudley Boyz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudley_Boyz))
The title was retired after it was unified with the WWF Tag Team Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tag_Team_Championship_(WWE)).[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WCWworldtagteam-21)


12
WWF Light Heavyweight Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWF_Light_Heavyweight_Championship)
December 7, 1997[d] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#endnote_4a)
Taka Michinoku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taka_Michinoku)
November 30, 2001
X-Pac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Waltman)
The title was replaced with theWCW Cruiserweight Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WCW_Cruiserweight_Championship)without a formal announcement.[a] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#endnote_4a)[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WWFLightweight-9)


13
WCW World Heavyweight Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WCW_World_Heavyweight_Championship)
March 23, 2001[b] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#endnote_2a)
Booker T (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booker_Huffman)[c] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#endnote_3b)
December 9, 2001
Chris Jericho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Jericho)
The title was retired after it was unified with the WWF Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Championship).[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WCWWorldtitle-20)


14
WWE European Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_European_Championship)
February 26, 1997
The British Bulldog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davey_Boy_Smith)
July 22, 2002
Rob Van Dam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Van_Dam)
The title was retired after it was unified with the WWE Intercontinental Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Intercontinental_Championship).[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-wweeuropeanfinalday-24)[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-31)


15
WWE Hardcore Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Hardcore_Championship)
November 2, 1998
Mankind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_Foley)
August 26, 2002
Rob Van Dam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Van_Dam)
The title was retired after it was unified with the WWE Intercontinental Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Intercontinental_Championship).[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-wwehardcorefinalday-32)


16
WWE Cruiserweight Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Cruiserweight_Championship)
March 23, 2001[b] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#endnote_2c)
Shane Helms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Helms)[c] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#endnote_3c)
March 4, 2008
Hornswoggle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornswoggle)
The title was retired without a formal announcement by WWE.[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WWEcruiser-22)


17
ECW World Heavyweight Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECW_World_Heavyweight_Championship)
June 13, 2006[e] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#endnote_5a)
Rob Van Dam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Van_Dam)[c] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#endnote_3c)
February 16, 2010
Ezekiel Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezekiel_Jackson)
The title was retired on the final episode of ECW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECW_(WWE)) with the closure of WWE's ECW brand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Brand_Extension#ECW).[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-ECW2-26)


18
World Tag Team Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tag_Team_Championship_(WWE))
June 3, 1971
Luke Graham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grady_Johnson)and Tarzan Tyler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarzan_Tyler)
August 16, 2010[f] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#endnote_6a)
David Hart Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hart_Smith) andTyson Kidd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TJ_Wilson)
(The Hart Dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hart_Dynasty))
The title was retired in favor of the WWE Tag Team Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Tag_Team_Championship) after the consolidation of the unification of both titles from April 2010.[27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WorldTag-27)[28] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-WWETag-28)


19
WWE Women's Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Women%27s_Championship)
September 18, 1956
The Fabulous Moolah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fabulous_Moolah)
September 19, 2010
Layla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layla_El)
The title was retired in favor of the WWE Divas Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Unified_Divas_Championship)after the consolidation of the unification of both titles on September 19, 2010.[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-33)[34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-34)


20
Million Dollar Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Dollar_Championship)
February 15, 1989
"Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_DiBiase)
November 15, 2010
Ted DiBiase, Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_DiBiase,_Jr.)
Ted DiBiase (Sr.) created the title, although it was never officially sanctioned by WWF/WWE. Ted DiBiase, Jr. abandoned the title after it was stolen byGoldust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dustin_Rhodes) on October 4 and Aksana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BDivil%C4%97_Raudonien%C4%97) on November 8. The title was returned to the Million Dollar Man and retired without a formal announcement.[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_championships_in_WWE#cite_note-Raw111510-35)




As a reminder, the rules are as follows. If you break a rule, there will be no excuses taken, so read them carefully. Each debate will have a 72 hour time limit, a 350 word word limit. Videos and pictures are not only allowed, they're downright encouraged.

Also, to finally address the issue of the first one to go or the second having the advantage, a coin will be flipped by me in advance to determine who goes first or second. Completely fair odds for everyone.

If you have any questions about the question you are given, or about how to proceed, please direct them to me BEFORE you post about them, to avoid troubles.

You must wait your turn to post, meaning that you can't rattle off all three right from the get go, you have to post in turns with your opponent and, this is very fucking important, IF YOU GET THE COIN TOSS TO GO SECOND, YOUR INTRODUCTION POST CAN NOT BE A RESPONSE TO THE OTHER GUY'S INTRODUCTION POST.

You must wait until your second post to begin debating what the other person has said. This is the only way to make this fair, it is not up for debate, and I will penalize your asses. So be fucking told.

Your judges are former Wilfred's champions Badger and the_man_diva.


The coin toss dictates that RIP will go first.

Rip
May 22nd, 2013, 3:35 PM
Looking through the list only one Title stands out as different, there are two stand out choices, but in the long run only one offers variety, innovation, entertainment and excitement.

One retired title, despite everything, was always at least FUN.

WWE Hardcore Championship.

The one match on the card that always gave you something, be it an excellent match, a glorious war, a new talent getting a push or at the least a damn good laugh.

Hardcore matches, when done well, are exciting, entertaining, fast paced and an excellent environment to push a new star, imagine the Shield in an era with the Hardcore Belt as a genuine prestigious title, CM Punk vs Dean Ambrose in a Hardcore match for a belt they both desired :drool: The Hardcore division would allow an edge to the product which clearly HHH desires and excels in delivering, it would enable the building of 'Beasts' true old fashioned dangerous heels, imagine for a second the damage Mark Henry in his current incarnation could do while chasing the Hardcore Title, what better environment to show how unstable and dangerous Ambrose can be, how cold and calculating Sandow is, how resourceful and resilient Miz is when pushed the possibilities are endless, rather than just another title to be forgotten like the current lower belts, the Hardcore Title brings a new division, a new flavour, a new direction.

I thought hard and sadly every other Title brings nothing new, another tag belt? Why? Another Heavyweight belt, they can't find anything meaningful to do with the ones they have now! A Lightweight/Cruiser Belt..? Honestly? What's the point, either book the cruisers well in which case they challenge for the 'real' titles or don't bother pretending you care, I'd rather see Ambrose fight for the World Heavyweight belt than get stuck in a second tier which is all the Cruisers ever amount to while pigeon holed into their own division, no my fellow Rajahites, there is only one choice here.

The Hardcore Title brings something different which means it brings opportunities, and isn't that what we all want?

The Law
May 22nd, 2013, 4:07 PM
The clear choice is to bring back the Cruiserweight Championship. While people generally dismiss WWE's version of the title, it actually had several good years. People remember Chavo Classic, Hornswaggle, and Jacqueline (who combined to hold the title for a few weeks) while forgetting Rey Mysterio, Chavo Guerrero, and Shane Helms (who held the title for several years).

The Cruiserweight Division would provide outstanding matches on a weekly basis. I'm talking *** matches on Raw and **** on PPV. Sin Cara, Justin Gabriel, Tyson Kidd, and many more would tear it up on Raw getting 10+ minutes in the midcard. Three hours of Raw provides plenty of time to give these guys a chance to have some great matches. The smaller high-flying wrestlers are the most underutilized group in WWE currently, and this would give them a chance to shine.

The Cruiserweight Division also would bring greater variety to the card. Having international wrestlers working their high-flying styles would definitely mix things up. Seeing Sin Cara and Rey Mysterio work their Lucha style while Tyson Kidd works his combination technical/high-flying style and Gabriel flies all over the ring would definitely shake up WWE.

This division is perfect for Sin Cara, who could be an enormous star if used correctly. The guy was the biggest draw in the history of Mexican wrestling. Letting him loose in the Cruiserweight Division, working with guys his size who wrestle his style and he is comfortable working with, could allow him to rise to become the international sensation he should be. Hispanics are a critical and growing group in WWE's fanbase. I see dollar signs in Sin Cara on top of the Cruiserweight Division.

Think of how many stars got their start in the Cruiserweight Division: Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Christian.

This is a division that was much better in WWE than anyone remembers and was HUGE in WCW. Given the talent of the cruiserweight they have on the roster and in NXT right now, it could be bigger than ever if brought back today.

Rip
May 24th, 2013, 3:37 PM
Unfortunately my esteemed opponent seems to have forgotten something.

This is the WWE.

Sadly the Cruiserweight division in the WWE does not exist for the promotion of high-flying matches, the WWE does not accept that 'lucha' style matches have any place in their family.

To the WWE the Cruiserweight division is always second best, a place to shove the smaller guys away from the real stars, a holding zone for people that creative have no idea what to do with but that someone with momentary vision decided to sign.

The resurrection of the Cruiserweight Title would signal a MASSIVE step backwards in the development of the WWE, it would undo a huge amount of the good work done over the last era by not only rising stars but HHH, who has championed the rise of the very wrestlers you seek to cast back into the dark ages. In the era of the Cruiserweight division how far do you believe Sin Cara would have risen? Do you believe Dean Ambrose would have been a current title holder, a viable challenger? If the Cruiserweight belt were in rotation now then these two stars of the future would have been lost to its clutches, the SHIELD would either not exist or have been robbed of both Ambrose and Rollins, PAC would have been plying his trade in ROH or TNA, Christian would not have returned, Rey would simply be a 7 time Cruiser, Daniel Bryan would have been sucked into obscurity fighting Yoshi and Tyson, I'd bet someone would have persuaded Ziggler to drop a few pounds, none of them would be credible contenders for the 'big belts', none would ever rise to WWE Champion.

The Cruiserweight Division is the pipe dream of the IWC, it sadly has no place in the WWE, by returning it to circulation you would simply be setting the company back years, pushing us away from the potential highs of Ambrose, Ziggler, PAC, Rhodes, Rollins and Bryan fighting over the real prize, the WWE and World titles.

The Law
May 24th, 2013, 8:26 PM
I understand your fear about people getting held back, except for the fact that Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, and Chris Jericho all became world champions while the Cruiserweight Division was still around. The presence of that championship didn't them back from becoming main eventers and world champions. Can you name a single wrestler who got "stuck" in the Cruiserweight Division? Mysterio, Matt Hardy, Chavo, and London all went on to other, bigger things after competing in the division. Who had their career ruined by being Cruiserweight Champion?

I think Dean Ambrose would be just fine with the Cruiserweight Division around. There's no particular reason to believe he would be in the division. Now that they've stopped kayfabing weights there are 20-30 guys on the roster under 225 pounds. Obviously, not all of them would be competing for the title. They could and would pick and choose the guys who were best suited for it, mostly the guys who didn't have anything else to do.


Remember all the great Hardcore Championship matches? Nope, me neither. Can only remember a few at all. Know why they got rid of it? The matches made the rest of the guys on the roster look like shit. Oh, Rock got hit with a chair in the main event? Who cares, Al Snow took six chair shots in the Hardcore Title match. Triple H put Undertaker through the announce table? Yawn. Hardcore Holly got put through two tables earlier. So instead we had to escalate things more and more and more until main eventers are taking insane bumps, getting injured, and shortening their careers.


You know what would set the company back years? Trying to relive the 90s and ECW. The Hardcore Title is the epitome of Attitude Era syndrome. Do you realize that during the existence of the Hardcore Title, it changed hands 234 times? It changed hands 60 times per year. More than once a week. The Hardcore Title looked just like what it was: garbage. And just like garbage, it stunk up the house.

Rip
May 25th, 2013, 4:11 PM
Interesting that you toss around names of Cruisers who predominantly were never really in the division.

Eddie, Benoit & Jericho never held the WWE Cruiser belt, the WWE never shoved them into that route as they saw them as being above the division.

Oh but wait, you save the point by asking us to believe that Chavo Guerrero held the Cruiserweight belt and went on to 'bigger and better things'... Like? TNA tag champ? Matt Hardy? 'Bigger and Better'... Like? Insanity? Paul London... 'Bigger and Better'... Like? I have nothing here, much like London.

Only Mysterio of your list got anywhere.

One man.

Wow.

The Hardcore Title?

Well...

Mankind, R-Truth, Big Show, Chris Jericho, Kane, RVD, Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle, The Undertaker, Christian, William Regal, Bubba Ray Dudley, Tommy Dreamer, Booker T and JBL are all former WWE Hardcore Champions.

Which belt has the better alumni?

Hardcore - 2 Hall of Famers, 7 Guaranteed future Hall of Famers, 10 WWE/World Heavyweight Champions, not counting Intercontinental or Tag reigns, or titles in other promotions.

Cruiser - Erm, well, Rey.

Come on people, there is only one answer.

The WWE Hardcore belt is often looked at with derision, but only by people who do not understand it's rich history and it's huge place in the history of the company, simply look at the names listed, the things those people went on to achieve, what they are still achieving.

Sadly the Cruiserweight title is an IWC pipe dream, whenever wrestling nerds gather it is brought up with reverence and false memories when simply the division HAS NEVER WORKED IN THE WWE STYLE AND NEVER WILL.

There is only one choice.

Harcore Rules.

The Law
May 25th, 2013, 5:01 PM
I notice you didn't address the fact that it made everyone else on the roster look like shit. Probably the most important part. No one is going to care about John Cena getting hit with a chair in the main event if they saw Dean Ambrose take five chair shots in the Hardcore Title match earlier. We don't need main eventers getting concussions and breaking bones because they had to one-up the HC Title match from earlier in the card.

My list of guys who won the world title was a response to your claim that Dean Ambrose or Dolph Ziggler would end up in the Cruiserweight Division if it existed. I was showing that was a false claim, not claiming that the CW Division made any of those guys stars.

That's a nice list of people who held the HC Title. You left out a few other former champions: Godfather's Ho, Pete Gas, Rodney, Terri Runnels. If you had a pulse between 1998 and 2002, you probably won that title at some point. None of the guys who held it got over because of it. It's not an important career accomplishment for any of them other than maybe Dreamer. We won't be hearing about Undertaker's Hardcore Title reign at his Hall of Fame induction. Several of those guys you listed held the title for less than five minutes.

I honestly laughed out loud when I read the words "rich history." The title was a joke. Non-wrestlers held it. Pat Patterson faced Gerald Brisco in an Evening Gown Match for it. It changed hands 15 times in one show. It devalued the other championships because anyone and everyone held it. Again, can anyone name a single great Hardcore Championship match?

The Cruiserweight Title would give underutilized wrestlers something to do. WWE is becoming a little man's game in the Wellness Policy Era with guys like Punk and Ziggler on top. It would produce good to great matches on a weekly basis, as it did in the past. It would provide something of value to the program, unlike the Hardcore Title.

Cewsh
May 25th, 2013, 5:28 PM
THIS DEBATE IS CLOSED.

VOTING WILL NOW BEGIN AND WILL CONTINUE UNTIL WEDNESDAY, MAY 29TH!

maxxmisery
May 25th, 2013, 6:17 PM
I vote The Law

Not only do I agree with his side of the argument, but I also agree that he laid his argument out better. The stats he dropped about how many times the HC title changed hands sealed the deal for me.

Good job by Rip as well though, even though I agree with the CW title coming back, I wouldn't mind seeing the HC title matches once in a while....

Mills
May 25th, 2013, 6:35 PM
Im going with The Law, I truly believe that Rip had it won but Law's last post knocked it out of the park. Honestly, if Rip had a last post he could've taken it back.

takerson
May 26th, 2013, 10:29 AM
Rip WAS my pick the whole time.... until the last post.

THE LAW takes it with his brilliant final post.

Kneeneighbor
May 26th, 2013, 10:32 AM
Great back and forth. I vote RIP by a nose.

StoneColdChris
May 26th, 2013, 9:27 PM
The Law

Great points on how hardcore title matches ruin the effects of the main events, how devalued the title was due to non wrestlers and the amount of changes, and how the CW title would utilize more talent and provide more value.

Cewsh
May 29th, 2013, 11:10 AM
VOTING IS NOW CLOSED.


Popular Vote: The Law (4-1)

Judge Badger: The Law


Good debate here, but for me The Law just edges this one for me

Both had good points about their opponent's choices not really being a big factor in elevating people to main-event status, but Law's points about WWE toning down on injuries these days plus the plethora of Hardcore title changes devaluing the belt won the day for me.

Judge Diva: N/A



THE LAW DEFEATS RIP (2-0)!

the_man_diva
May 29th, 2013, 5:49 PM
I know it's late for my vote, and it didn't matter as it was 2-0, but just felt I should chime in (life has been hectic, which was NOT forseeable when I signed on as a judge), but my vote would have gone to The Law also ... RIP had me on board from the get-go ... but damn, Law's second post really swayed me. Good job on both posters.

Rip
May 29th, 2013, 6:37 PM
Cewsh and his magic coin did for me, the advantage of going last in a debate is huge when your opponent is as good as Law, well played though.