XBox One

[The Rick]

Starting at 10 a.m. Pacific time Tuesday, Microsoft will hold a big press conference. It is all but confirmed to be the unveiling of the next X-Box.

VG247 (http://www.vg247.com/2013/05/20/xbox-720-reveal-watch-it-live-here/) and ign (http://www.ign.com/xbox-720) among other sites with have the live feed.

WIth AMD producing both the PS4 and next X-Box chipsets, how will they set themselves apart?
WIll Kenect 2 really take off?
How will much will Illumiroom attract gamers?
Do they try and appeal to just the hardcore gamers, because that is usually your early adopters?
How do they top what the PS4 looks to offer?


So discuss all things New X-Box here.

[The Rick]

gamespot link (http://www.gamespot.com/news/next-gen-fifa-ufc-game-to-be-shown-at-xbox-720-event-6408600)
By Eddie Makuch May 20, 2013 11:44AM PDT



Next-gen FIFA, UFC game to be shown at Xbox 720 event
Latest entry in soccer series and new UFC game to be on display at Microsoft's next-generation reveal event tomorrow.

[UPDATE] Following the publication of this story, EA Sports announced that its new UFC game will also be shown during the next Xbox reveal event tomorrow.

The original story follows below

Call of Duty: Ghosts won't be the only game on display at Microsoft's next-generation reveal event tomorrow. An image posted to the official EA Sports FIFA Facebook page invites gamers to "see the next generation of FIFA" during the presentation, which starts at 10 a.m. PDT.

EA and Microsoft are rumored to announce a partnership at the reveal event that will see certain content released first on the next Xbox before launching on other platforms.

Outside of a brief flash of its logo, EA was a no-show during the PlayStation 4 announcement in February. Chief financial officer Blake Jorgensen explained the publisher's absence as EA's "timing of our own slate as well as trying to maintain a good balance of power with all the parties out there."

GameSpot will be in attendance at the Xbox 720 event, during which Microsoft will share its vision for the future of games and entertainment.

FIFA 14 was announced last month for the Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, and PC. EA Sports at the time noted that information about other platforms would be revealed "in the months ahead." The game sports a new ball physics engine and will not feature female players.

[Jez]

I'm expecting the Xbox reveal to be a much bigger and grander media event than the PS4 reveal, possibly with a few celebrity cameos just to make the whole thing cringeworthy. I expect them to focus primarily on entertainment and media with possibly only 50% of the event dedicated to games, some of which will be casual/kinect orientated. In other words I'm not particularly excited but I am curious and will be tuning in without a doubt. They have their work cut out for them to persuade the "core" gamer to side with them over Playstation after the PS4 event which did pretty much everything right. This will be an exciting year for video games.

[OD50]

The new UFC game is being shown? Sweet. :hyper:

[T.I (uh oh)]

I expect them to focus primarily on entertainment and media with possibly only 50% of the event dedicated to games

I read somewhere else today that this reveal will be all about almost exclusively about the console and it's features. E3 will be all about the games.

[Jez]

Yes I read that too but EA have confirmed a fair few games for this show such as Battlefield 4, new FIFA, rumours of the new NFS and the new UFC and it's also very likely Microsoft will show us the new Forza title and Activision have confirmed that CoD: Ghosts will be unveiled also. Those titles alone are bound to take a fair bit of time and I'd be surprised if there weren't a few titles which have been kept under wraps. E3 will probably be fantastic this year with both Microsoft and Sony bringing their A game for once.

[The Rick]

XBOX ONE



ign feed if needed (http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/05/21/ign-live-presents-the-next-xbox-reveal). There is a Battlefield 4 trailer before you get the live feed.

[Cewsh]

I'm not sure that I really want or need most of this stuff right now, but you can tell that they're making great strides towards a ridiculously advanced future. We'll see if that makes it the Sega Dreamcast or the Sega CD.

[The Rogerer]

I felt like the PS4 speech was working to turn things around. This feels like a seamless advancement, for better or worse.

[Cewsh]

Agreed. Microsoft had the least the fix in this generation.

[VHS]

I feel like they're telling us more than showing us stuff.

[Kimura Kid]

The new UFC game is being shown? Sweet. :hyper:


http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/281.png?w=640

[VHS]

Couple cut scenes, bunch of big numbers and adjectives, mention COD and boom done. Bye!

[Bad Collin]

Xbox one is a thoroughly shit name

[Vice]

Didn't show much in the way of games, but they showed off the console and the cool new shit it can do. That is good enough for me.

[The Rogerer]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/407912/microsoft-confirms-pre-owned-fee-for-xbox-one/ Theeere we go


Microsoft confirms 'pre-owned fee' for Xbox One
Mandatory game installation required for all games; second install on separate Live account sits behind paywall
Posted on Tuesday 21-May-2013 7:12 PM BST

Microsoft has confirmed that all Xbox One games will require mandatory installation onto the system's hard drive and, to install the same disc onto another user's drive, a fee must be paid.

[Vice]

Why, Microsoft? :(

[The Rogerer]

I wonder if the unlock fee de-authorises the previous account holder.

[Bad Collin]

Fuck off Microsoft. I'll be getting a Playstation unless they play the same trick.

[Vice]

I wonder if the unlock fee de-authorises the previous account holder.
If it does, that's dickish of them. If it doesn't, it could backfire completely.

So, I'm going with de-authorizes.

[Matty C]

Fuck off Microsoft. I'll be getting a Playstation unless they play the same trick.

I was probably getting a Playstation anyway but if one side does this and the other doesn't, I have to think a lot of people will feel this way. I know that if PS did it and Xbox didn't, it would be enough for me to switch to Xbox because I rarely buy a game brand new these days.

[The Rogerer]

If it does, that's dickish of them. If it doesn't, it could backfire completely.

So, I'm going with de-authorizes.When I think about it, if the unlock was less than the RRP and didn't de-auth, then you could just share a game disc around people on release day for a cheaper game. Calling it an 'unlock fee' means it seems less than paying the price of a full new game (or else you would just buy a new copy anyway) so I imagine de-authing, which I guess means you'll always need to verify what games you have in.

[Fro]

I'm rather displeased with the new generation of consoles and will probably abstain altogether.

[Cewsh]

I don't really care much about not being able to share games around, the advent on Xbox Live kind of made that a moot point for me personally, but if they are stacking an unlock fee on top of the usual price of buying a used game, that would seriously cut into the number of games that I buy. And if they force the prices down to allow for the unlock fees, then they'll bankrupt Gamestop, which doesn't do me much good either.

[Atty]

PS4 it is, I guess... :(

[Rip]

PS4 it is, I guess... :(

:yes:

I think Microsoft might have dropped a large one here.

[VHS]

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2013/05/sonystock.jpg

[Doctor Who]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b110/Humphries2002/MSC_zps47c05476.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/Humphries2002/media/MSC_zps47c05476.jpg.html)

[The Rick]

So EA's announcement, could have just be to gain some positive mindshare befor Microsoft announced this "authentication" crap. This Sony's to lose now. If they come out at E3, and say "we are doing that shit" they can steal a significant amount of XBox people away.

That being said, there is some cool functionality with XBOX ONE. I just don't see how it makes my gaming experience better.

[Cewsh]

The one that takes the lead will be whichever one launches cheaper with the best marketing campaign. Everything else is pretty irrelevant to the mainstream market.

[Beer-Belly]

I've never understood the brand loyalty for Xbox. Pretty much everyone I know that owned or owns a 360 either got the red ring of death or had some other issue with it.

[The Rogerer]

There's still confusion about what's happening with used games. Major Nelson did a blog to clear everything up, and he still left it sort of ambiguous and tried to dodge the issue. MS left Sony run away with the ball after the PS4 thing, now they've left so many unanswered questions for even more speculation, confirmed that you will need to authenticate games online, the Kinect NEEDS to be on. Sony had the right approach going technical, looking like a company that was addressing problems and trying to move forward, you don't need to talk about Call of Duty because you know it'll be there. Devoting so much time to Ghosts was strange as it'll be on 360 and I bet most people will still play it on this generation rather than the next, as even if you do move over most of your friends won't have.

They were facing a lot of negative speculation, and they've just fuelled it coming out of this. They'll still do alright, but it's comical how much they're following the hubristic path that people thought they would. They need to fight harder than this but Microsoft is in complete disarray.

[Vice]

I thought showing off Ghosts was pretty clever. What's a good way to get PS/PC fans to check out your conference? Showing off a game that millions and millions of people play the shit out of. Even if they didn't watch the conference itself, those people likely checked out video game websites to see the footage, and there is no avoiding Xbox stuff. Basically, it's not something that hurts Xbox fans already watching and who will likely be standing in line waiting for 3 days prior to the console launch, and if it can get the console any added interest from different crowds.. it's good for business.

And Big M definitely needs to come out and just tell everybody the deal with the used games thing. They are not clear about it at all, and while they say that it's a system designed with used game sales and all that shit in mind, they aren't giving anyone any sort of clarity. Everyone is dreading the lack of used games/authorization fees, and thousands and thousands and thousands of people are shitting on Microsoft all over the internet for how they're handling it. If they've got a good plan in place, and everyone is understanding everything wrong, CLEAR IT UP RIGHT NOW. Don't tell us that we'll find out eventually. It'll be revealed later. Whatever. If it's not stupid, just tell us right now so that people don't shit on you and make plans to buy a PS4 over the next few months while you remain confusing or outright silent. It's terrible for business.

[Hlebsfall]

It was an awful conference. Most of it was spent telling you that you can watch TV on it, and that there's going to be a fucking Halo TV show. Oh, though let's not forget the CGI dogs.

[Hlebsfall]

Oh sorry, I also forgot the PHOTONS, 5 BILLION TRANSISTORS AND ROCKET SCIENCE LEVEL TECHNOLOGY.

[Bad Collin]

The more I think about the used games thing, the more I think it is such a dreadful idea. Aside from the fact it treats loyal customers like criminals it will also put game stores out of business robbing Microsoft and Sony of high street space to sell the consoles.

Then there is the bad publicity and resources to deal with the large number of 'My internet is down and I can't get my games to work' complaints.

I might just skip the new consoles completely and save up for a decent gaming PC.

[T.I (uh oh)]

Perhaps most intriguing, however, is that Xbox One gives game developers the ability to access Microsoft’s Azure cloud computing platform. That leads to a few obvious and immediate applications: All your downloaded and installed games and achievements are synced to the cloud and can be accessed and played without interruption on any Xbox One you sign in to; stable, dedicated servers for every multiplayer game rather than the notoriously fragile practice of hosting matches on one participant’s console; even multiplayer matches that can grow to 64, even 128 participants, rather than the usual limit of 16 or 32.

But other possibilities also come to mind. If developers are able to offload significant chunks of processing power to the cloud—conceivably even fundamental game mechanics like physics engines or collision-detection systems—that frees them to use local processing for even more intensive processes. In other words, the possibilities are limited only by the imaginations of thousands of game programmers. “It’s not like on day one, everyone will have figured out how to take advantage of that power,” Whitten says. “It’s just one of those stakes we’re placing.”

Despite Microsoft saying that the Xbox One will only need to sync once every 24 hours, the bolded above pretty strongly suggests that some games will require 'always online'. This shit simply won't fly in many countries. Imagine having the shooting and hit detection modules hosted in the cloud in Halo 5. You're running along fine, next thing your WiFi craps out, and you can't shoot shit. No thanks.

Sauce: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/05/xbox-one/

[The Rogerer]

I really don't buy this "offloading processing power" thing. It was exposed as a naked lie when it came to Sim City, and I'm sceptical about using it in a mass market product. To make it anywhere near worthwhile, they'd have to have a massive infrastructure to support it. Graphics are your most expensive process and you can't realistically outsource that.

Their main focus, if that is the case, should using dedicated servers for online gaming. That doesn't solve all problems, but it helps a bit. It would certainly help justify the live fee.

There's still FUD being spread as to whether you will need to pay money to play online gaming with the PS4. If that's the case, then the PS4 is the answer as I didn't think too hard about that when I got a 360, but over the course of 5+ years it adds up. I also don't want Kinect, but with the xone it will be factoring into the cost of the system.

[Pablo Diablo]

I have a feeling this offloading processing power thing won't be limited to just the One. The PS4 will probably be able to do this as well. But I really hope neither of them use it, it's just such a stupid idea.

Where did you read TI that it required a sync once every 24 hours?

[Atty]

I've never understood the brand loyalty for Xbox. Pretty much everyone I know that owned or owns a 360 either got the red ring of death or had some other issue with it.

I didn't get a 360 until last October and, once I did, I found myself duplicating my PS3 library. I found the graphics better (I could easily set it to run 1080p all the time as opposed to PS3 where it would auto to 720) and I much prefered the controller. I rebought titles like Arkham City, Mass Effect (all of them), both Portals and Red Dead, with all running better on the 360.

That said, I'll be going PS4. Sony has the only non Nintendo exclusive I care about now (Uncharted) and this used thing pisses me right off. Same with lack of backplay, as I fully expect games like the entire Mass Effect series to be re-re-released on he next gen. Particularly on One, where they could now have it on one disc per game.

[VHS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw

[Bert]

https://twitter.com/MetroVideoGame/status/336889061241393152

We welcome the new consoles to join the "generation" we're already in on PC with Metro: Last Light.

[Pablo Diablo]

The one complaint I've been seeing a lot that I don't get is the complaint that they didn't show games. Despite saying previously that E3 was where they would show games.

That being said I had a chuckle at what VHS posted above.

[The_Mike]

I'm rather displeased with the new generation of consoles and will probably abstain altogether.

Same here. I got a PS3 second hand last gen, mostly for GTAIV and FFXIII. You can imagine how pleased I ended up being...

At this point, it really feels like the console industry is turning actively hostile toward gamers. I'm not interested in jumping through their hoops and playing their, pardon the pun, games anymore. I haven't had a console in 18 months and have found plenty of PC games to fill my time with. What strikes me as the most odd thing about this generation though is the obsession the console manufacturers seem to have with turning their devices into some kind of magical all-purpose social entertainment profit-squeeze machine, when all they really are likely to be are big boxes to play a half dozen iterations of Call of Duty on.

[VHS]

Back in my day you bought a console, bout a video game, and played it wherever/whenever you dang well pleased. Things used to be simple.

[The_Mike]

Yeah, well, you still had to pay extra for electricity so deal with it.

[The Doc]

To be fair the PS2 was the best selling DVD player of all time. My 360 is the only thing I've ever used Net Flix on other than the initial sign up. Get me a console that doubles as a DVR and I can clear out my living room.

[The_Mike]

The PS2 was a great DVD player because it was, relative to others at the time, dirt cheap. It was also a cheap DVD player because the medium it used was DVD so why not? That's not really the same as next gen consoles looking to become a jack of all trades and bloating their price and requiring a bunch of gizmos to be attached to them.

[The Rick]

Xbox is seriously betting that they will gain more of the mainstream audience than they will lose from their hardcore gaming audience. I think this is a big risk.

IGN has said in the latest GameScoop podcast, ALL GAMES WILL HAVE A PER USER INSTAL FEE. So if you have kids, you will be able to install it for one user, but will have to pay to put it on different accounts. That is not 100% confirmed, but IGN is usually pretty close to source when they discuss these things.

[The_Mike]

That would essentially kill the point of parental controls, unless they seriously expect families to pay extra just to let their kids install stuff. This whole thing seems so badly thought-out it's like they want to fail. I'm a cynical bastard who thinks most people are complete morons who would drink acid that is eating through a spoon if it was offered by a pretty PR person, but am I being totally irrational in having faith that consumers are largely going to balk at this?

[Atty]

If Sony's smart, they'll not do any of this and just murder Microsoft.

[VHS]

Any kid trying to explain this to their parents will just get a Wii U for Christmas.

[Atty]

Or a lump of coal that has a bluray player.

[Bert]

Any kid trying to explain this to their parents will just get a Wii U for Christmas.

Or the real Xbox 1.

http://i.imgur.com/N2NDJgm.jpg

[The_Mike]

Yeah, that's another thing I don't get with the X-Box 1 branding. How many people are going to find themselves gifted a $40 used X-Box? It's the first X-Box, isn't it? I guess they are trying to suggest unity and imply that all your entertainment needs will be incorporated into one box, but you could call it unity or universe or infinity or anything other than fucking one when it's the third fucking X-Box you fucks.

Pardon me. Just really confused and somewhat irritated that these marketing people have jobs that I think could be more safely entrusted to just about anyone on the forums.

[Judas Iscariot]

I just am not comfortable with Microsoft (and those they are in business with) requiring Kinect to be on so that I can be seen and heard at all times.

This is 1984 shit.

I might get a PS4, but to be frank the last game I really spent a lot of time on was Dark Souls. I guess I'm just not a gamer like I used to be. I probably won't get a console when it comes down to it.

[Jez]

I realise I'm late to the party but I did watch the conference live and I thought the show was overall pretty terrible. They focussed way too much on live TV, Kinect and sports and if that is truly indicative of their focus with the Xbox One then I'm not interested at all. Most of the impressive features like connecting it to your cable box are US only and I don't think I would use even if they did launch in the UK. I would never use Skype and never surf the net on my TV while watching a movie either so what about the One really was relevant to me? Finishing their huge conference with a tech demo for the latest Call of Duty was possibly the most underwhelming way they could have closed the show. And seriously the "Xbox One"?! What were they thinking? Not as bad as Wii U admittedly but come on!

I realise that E3 will be all about the games and they have 15 exclusives within their first year with 8 being new IPs but I'm finding it hard to care. Of the 8 new IPs we know that one is Ryse which looks rubbish and one is Quantum Break which I have no interest in after Alan Wake bored me senseless. Out of the 6 remaining new IPs how many will be Kinect only? And I fully expect the other 7 exclusives to include Forza 5, Halo 5 and Killer Instinct none of which excite me or interest me.

Maybe it's just the Xbox brand has faltered in my eyes in recent years but I honestly don't know how they could win me back. I feel that Microsoft have completely changed their vision since Kinect launched and I for one am not going to be supporting it next gen. PS4 will be my main console unless E3 drastically changes my mind with a X1 purchase some time after a price drop and/or redesign (because seriously that thing is a huge monstrosity of a console.)

To be fair though the controller looks quite nice and the operating system(s) look very slick and fast. It will undoubtedly sell well in the US at least because the Xbox brand has overtaken Playstation as the go-to brand for gaming.

[Jez]

EA announcing the end of their online pass scheme just days before they announce their exclusive partnership with Microsoft makes me suspicious that the used games policy was a large factor in them becoming partners. Up until as recently as 2011 EA and Sony were partners with games like Battlefield 3, Dead Space and Medal of Honor getting exclusive DLC and timed exclusive DLC. Does this mean that Sony refused to bow under the pressure from EA and won't block used games? Or am I reading too much into this?

[The Rogerer]

You know when a band has a big album and people think it's their first? People might think of the 360 as the first Xbox, so you have the Xbox 1, the first Xbox and then the Xbox One.

The EA thing is interesting. The main speculation I heard was that Mass Effect multiplayer weapon packs, Fifa ultimate team packs, etc, had loads of people spending hundreds and thousands of pounds on them (Just anecdotally I know my brother spent about £150 on Fifa stuff). Doing away with the online pass would increase the chance of them catching a new player. At a point it's worth it for them to give it away for free so they shouldn't worry about that too much. I think this partnership isn't much different to what MS has done in the past - securing what exclusivity they can. EA are trying to push themselves in a new direction with a new CEO, etc, so they'll want to show a strong future, etc, and overcome their PR disasters.

What is the story with Fifa though. At first people said Fifa was exclusive, then people said the Ultimate mode was exclusive. What I took was that it was a set of content for the Ultimate team that would be exclusive.

[Jez]

You know when a band has a big album and people think it's their first? People might think of the 360 as the first Xbox, so you have the Xbox 1, the first Xbox and then the Xbox One.

Huh? That makes things even more confusing! (edit: just realised that was your point!) I don't think this will be a Wii U style disaster of marketing but 'One' is a silly way to follow up '360' and is even worse when you consider that the 360 will probably be sold alongside it.


The EA thing is interesting. The main speculation I heard was that Mass Effect multiplayer weapon packs, Fifa ultimate team packs, etc, had loads of people spending hundreds and thousands of pounds on them (Just anecdotally I know my brother spent about £150 on Fifa stuff). Doing away with the online pass would increase the chance of them catching a new player. At a point it's worth it for them to give it away for free so they shouldn't worry about that too much. I think this partnership isn't much different to what MS has done in the past - securing what exclusivity they can. EA are trying to push themselves in a new direction with a new CEO, etc, so they'll want to show a strong future, etc, and overcome their PR disasters.

What is the story with Fifa though. At first people said Fifa was exclusive, then people said the Ultimate mode was exclusive. What I took was that it was a set of content for the Ultimate team that would be exclusive.

Yeah I am probably reading too much into it but it would be such a huge victory for Sony to come out and say that used games can be played in any console with no fee. It would be enough in my opinion to make Sony far and away the market leaders again because even the average non hardcore gamer still wants the ability to lend their games to their friends. From what I've read it is only specific Ultimate Team content that is exclusive which seems a very minor exclusive to be able to brag about.

[Peter Griffin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOxdMQhDMIU

[The_Mike]

Wired has an interesting article (http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/05/xbox-one-gaming/) about the reaction to the Xbox One, largely painting gamers as whiners who don't know what they want and declaring that, essentially, the console is dead:


It’s not hard to figure out what the gaming-first crowd wants: a super-powered box that connects to the TV, has a handheld controller and has a huge library of games from the biggest-budget epics to the breakout indie hits. They don’t want a PC because they don’t want to mess with settings and deal with crashes; they want a standard platform that Just Works. It can do other things, sure, but games are the meat and everything else is somewhere between the gravy and the pepper shaker.

Hey, that sounds like an awesome product! Tuned precisely to our very needs. Say, do you know how many companies — in the entire world — currently offer such a product?

Two.

The gist of it is that dedicated games consoles aren't profitable because Sony's bleeding cash and Nintendo and Microsoft don't want to make them anymore. I can't help but feel there's a great big gulf in that logic, but I'm curious what other people think. We already talked about how you used to just buy a box, stick it into your TV and play games on it, but that simplicity seems to have slipped away for good. Personally, I believe it's because of incompetence and obstinance on the part of console manufacturers, who just seem obsessed with selling gimmicks because it worked for Nintendo that one time and corporations are run by sheep who are very slow to learn. We do see this phenomenon in other industries. TV execs became obsessed with reality TV because Big Brother was wildly successful; every film director for six years thought bullet time was the best thing ever; the music industry clones every single artist who makes a swift cultural impact, and radio plays every fresh and successful artist to death. Games companies have this obsession with co-op and slapping multi-player features on blatantly single-player games right now. It's just what happens in media industries.

Still, maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps the modern world and the technological demands just aren't the place for a dedicate console anymore. Maybe Microsoft and Nintendo have good reason to not want to keep making these things, and even if they are simply incompetent, it's not as if we're entitled to console gaming as we know it. The Wired article makes the argument that these devices have to do so much more than play games to make these companies money in the modern world, but I don't know if I buy that. The fact we are in the modern world seems to suggest to me that none of these extra features are actually worth buying yet another device for. We already have TVs, we already have smart TVs, and we have media centre PCs and laptops and tablets and smartphones to coordinate our entertainment and social lives. I can Skype on my crappy 900MHz netbook, and I can watch TV on, shockingly, my TV. What is an Xbox One for, and what's wrong with the 'gaming-first crowd' wanting it to be for them?

[The Rick]

Well it's funny for the point that every part of Sony is bleeding money in all divisions except their video game divisions. Their gamble on 3D tvs really killed alot of their growth the last few years. Playstation has really been their only bright spot.

[The_Mike]

Yeah I really felt his financial data was seriously cherry-picked.

[The Doc]

First, I like my head. Please do not bite it off.

I think for starters you're picking Nintendo kinda out the air because you either love or hate the Wii. Something is there. The PS1 was a CD player (not that many people used it for that). Everything that Nintendo HASN'T made since that point has served as a DVD player and I don't know anybody who doesn't use their console as a DVD player. (Okay I'm lying, I have a friend to torrents everything and doesn't even own a cable box anymore) I see several people who are quite happy to play their Netflix on their consoles as well.

Now I'll agree with you that pretty much everything other than that is at best cute. I had my fun with Wii Vote and Wii Weather but that's about as far as that goes. I don't like this always on (well it needs to check in once a day) bullshit. I wonder if they know how many customers they are losing by alienating the military like that? I don't have a Kinnect and my few experiences with it and the Move have been pretty awful BUT Microsoft may be on to something here. One thing almost all of us can agree on is that peripherals almost always suck. Whether it was the Super Scope 6, SNES Mouse, or Kinnect they all sucked. The Wii (hate all you want, the motion controls worked and there were plenty of quality games) and the DS work. You have to force programmers to work with your gimmick or they'll ignore it. Microsoft is committed to getting the Kinnect out there and this is probably their best option.

Everybody though is trying to be the ones that master the all in one. I want my console to do games first, other shit second. I do agree with you that media get stuck in ruts of follow the leader. But as you point out I think that's just media, it's not like comics didn't do the same thing and it wouldn't shock me to find out that there was a decade where every book was the . . .(not now, before) . . .you know what I mean.

Also Goddamnit. I swore I'd never by another Playstation after 3 but I'm not sold on the Wii U and the X-Box One is a bigger insult than the PS3 was. They better give me some good games.

[Bad Collin]

This seems to me like a classic case of a company trying to diversify their audience and losing their hardcore crowd. The success of the Wii has meant that Microsoft and Sony have started pandering to the casual gamer in ernest and people who just want to play quality games are left out of the conversation.

[The Rogerer]

I felt I got what I wanted from the Sony conference. They're making good progress with reaching out to smaller developers and making it easier to make games for their system. Wired can fuck off. Sony invested loads of money in the PS3 and completely fucked it up, so how is that graph proof? They backed a turkey while the 360 and Wii ran away with it.

[Jez]

I must say that the Sony conference is much better in hindsight. At the time I was mostly impressed but after Microsoft's conference it feels like the PS4 reveal went very very well. Designing their console from the ground up with game developers in mind indicates that this is a games console first and a media centre second, which is exactly what I want since I already have an iPad, smart phone, Tivo box and smart TV. I don't need an all-in-one that tries to make me fall in love with my TV, I need a games console which is consumer friendly, easy to use and has plenty of exclusives.

I have no doubt that over the next few months opinions will sway for both consoles as details are revealed with the now revered PS4 taking a few bumps and the X1 maybe winning a few people back with their game line up. The Wii U might even win some support back if they're lucky - apparently sales on Amazon for the Wii U have went up over 300% since the X1 reveal. And regardless of what 'the internet' is thinking about the One right now it will sell massively well and probably sell out at launch. The average consumer will hear "new Xbox" and want it regardless of what it does or what it doesn't do.

[The Rogerer]

That's a good point about the Wii U. We were all holding our breath to see what the future was going to be, whether things were going to turned on their head. The Xbox One feels like a very gentle step into the forward - something that will do everything the 360 does but a bit faster. As I said about promoting Call of Duty: Ghosts, my guess is that there won't be crossover 360/One multiplayer, so a lot of people will probably be playing it on 360, where they'll still get the dog/new features. The problem I saw with the Xbox One presentation is that it really didn't promote anything new that made you need it. The smartglass idea seems like the most bizarre thing - you have to have a tablet or phone to use it anyway, and then you're going to open a window on a 1080p (or actually 768) screen? Your tablet probably has a better resolution than your TV.

I now feel like there's no big mad revolution in the future and I can make my mind up now about what I'm going to do. The Wii U still has problems but they don't seem quite so dramatic and you can have your Wii U alongside a PS4, much like what happened with the Wii60 movement after PS3 dropped the ball. I'd still be half tempted to get one. My problem is that I don't want to tie up the TV all the time, and I have a PC with a big Steam Library but for some reason I never settle into that. TBH a second PS3 would solve my problems as when the TV is being watched, it's usually through the PS3 anyway. A Wii U would be alright in the meantime, but in the future you'll just be back to only Nintendo titles which I'm feeling burned out on.

[Alf]

I think the proof will be in the eating so to speak. I can't for my life get my head around the pros and cons of the new consoles so I'll just wait and see what they are like in action.

I definitely feel like the xbox stuff being a full on media centre, watching live tv through it and all that shit is an utter gimmick. Like someone else said, I can do that on my TV already, why do I need another box to facilitate TV watching?

[OD50]

Yeah, I'm borderline retarded when it comes to specs and shit. I just want the best gaming console don't give a flying F about the other stuff.

[Atty]

I think the proof will be in the eating so to speak. I can't for my life get my head around the pros and cons of the new consoles so I'll just wait and see what they are like in action.

I definitely feel like the xbox stuff being a full on media centre, watching live tv through it and all that shit is an utter gimmick. Like someone else said, I can do that on my TV already, why do I need another box to facilitate TV watching?

Plus I can do that on both my 360 and PS3.

[The Rick]

And here is the thing. Early adopters are gamers. They are the people that will plop down money right now for a pre-order. I'm on the fence about doing it with PS4(I can always sell my pre-order back). Microsoft wants to be the cornerstone of the living room, but to do that they needed to this press conference to be much bigger. Do the reveal on a major network. Put it in front of the masses. The people that tune in for a reveal are the same people that are the early adopters. I think this was a mistake by Microsoft. They can fix all of this at E3, but why put yourself farther behind Sony? Sony still has another event lined up before E3, which was reportedly made to counter anything they needed to from the Microsoft presser.

Right now you have to attract the minds of the gamers. Show them what awesome games they will be able to play on it. Then as we get closer to the holidays convey why this new console is a must for the consumer. Why Jan. A. Mother need to buy this machine for little Billy or Suzzie. That was the huge problem for the WiiU. They didn't communicate that it was a new system, and why people needed it. A good chunk of the masses thought that WiiU was just an add-on for their Wii. The naming was bad, the communication was terrible, and now publishers are jumping off of the Nintendo boat.

[The_Mike]

First, I like my head. Please do not bite it off.

It's all right, I'm out of chianti anyway.


I think for starters you're picking Nintendo kinda out the air because you either love or hate the Wii. Something is there. The PS1 was a CD player (not that many people used it for that). Everything that Nintendo HASN'T made since that point has served as a DVD player and I don't know anybody who doesn't use their console as a DVD player. (Okay I'm lying, I have a friend to torrents everything and doesn't even own a cable box anymore) I see several people who are quite happy to play their Netflix on their consoles as well.

Now I'll agree with you that pretty much everything other than that is at best cute. I had my fun with Wii Vote and Wii Weather but that's about as far as that goes. I don't like this always on (well it needs to check in once a day) bullshit. I wonder if they know how many customers they are losing by alienating the military like that? I don't have a Kinnect and my few experiences with it and the Move have been pretty awful BUT Microsoft may be on to something here. One thing almost all of us can agree on is that peripherals almost always suck. Whether it was the Super Scope 6, SNES Mouse, or Kinnect they all sucked. The Wii (hate all you want, the motion controls worked and there were plenty of quality games) and the DS work. You have to force programmers to work with your gimmick or they'll ignore it. Microsoft is committed to getting the Kinnect out there and this is probably their best option.

Everybody though is trying to be the ones that master the all in one. I want my console to do games first, other shit second. I do agree with you that media get stuck in ruts of follow the leader. But as you point out I think that's just media, it's not like comics didn't do the same thing and it wouldn't shock me to find out that there was a decade where every book was the . . .(not now, before) . . .you know what I mean.

Also Goddamnit. I swore I'd never by another Playstation after 3 but I'm not sold on the Wii U and the X-Box One is a bigger insult than the PS3 was. They better give me some good games.

I actually neither love nor hate the Wii. I had a Wii for a couple of years and I enjoyed what few games I got for it. I don't have a problem with it being a bit different, though I found the motion controls to be awkward. Slapping a ball around for ten minutes in Wii Sports was fun, trying to drive across the city and get into firefights in a two-hour session of Scarface was exhausting. My point wasn't that Nintendo are really bad or really good for coming up with this idea, my point was that that was their idea and their paradigm for playing their console, and because it was instantly popular it was also instantly cloned and now Sony and Microsoft have Move and Kinect and are obsessed with trying to gain the market they think Nintendo created. Nintendo's Wiimote was a bit different and it was cool while it lasted, but it's not the only way to make a games console. I'm a gamer, I want solid games to play, and maybe I'm old and stuck in my ways but I don't like the idea that I'm expected to flap my arms around and talk to myself to get it done.

I also disagree there were plenty of quality games on the Wii. There were enough for me to have fun with it, but it wasn't a platform that could cope with what were essentially normal games. It did what it did well, but it had a lot of baggage preventing it from being the jack of all trades it was pretending to be. Its Internet features were rudimentary at best, it wasn't really giving gamers the mainstream games they wanted (except Nintendo first party titles), but it was pretty good for party games and exercising. That's not a bad machine, but it's not a good games console. I don't know why other console manufacturers seem so determined to put themselves in the same position.

Essentially I agree with you except on little details. I want a games console first, and I don't see any sense in Microsoft trying their best not to make one.

[Pablo Diablo]

So the whole used games fee may not be true after all. Although why they haven't just come straight out and said it makes me think there is something more than normal.

[blackening]

Info given to retailers about how trade ins are going to work.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publishers-to-receive-cut-of-xbox-one-pre-owned-sales-at-retail/0116137

[Chris]

That is amateur level stuff from Microsoft. If all these reports are untrue, why don't they set the record straight by actually telling us what will happen? They're just creating more ambiguity by denying the reports, but remaining vague as to what the truth really is and when they'll bother to let us know. On the surface it seems as if they're trying to soften the blow of news which has already created controversy, and they will be seen to have handled the situation quite stupidly whether that news is accurate or not.

I'm with everyone else who is quite happy with the media set-up in my home, and not in need of a box which tries to take over from the technology I already have.

[Peter Griffin]

Are they expected to release price information for this and the PS4 etc at E3 or at a later date?

[Olympus]

We'll likely see prices and release dates for both at E3.

Serious question... did they pay people to scream and shout at the conference? It seems like everyone in the world hated every second of it, yet there were people in that crowd celebrating like they all just won free ice cream for life.

[The Rogerer]

They had a big section of Microsoft staff in the audience

[Atty]

I figured they contracted with CBS for a cheering version of their laugh track technology.

[The_Mike]

Several reporters were tweeting during/immediately after the show that essentially all of the cheering and applause was coming from the Microsoft staff at the back.

Microsoft's clarification of the used-game issue seems to only be getting worse every time they open their mouth. The latest idea is essentially executing games retailers, and making private transactions impossible, despite clear laws that make any individual entirely within their rights to re-sell their game discs to whoever they want without having to give the publisher or Microsoft a cent. Who the fuck do they think they are? Right now they're trying to pretend that even these latest clarifications are still somehow 'inaccurate and incomplete', which is their own damn fault and makes me suspect they are desperately trying to figure out some way to get away with fucking over retailers without getting too much bad press. They certainly don't seem willing to give up on their obsession with stealing the used game market, they appear to be just tweaking their plan on the fly in the hope they'll eventually get away with it.

[The Rick]

gamespot link (http://www.gamespot.com/news/xbox-one-preowned-plan-revealed-6408850)
By Eddie Makuch May 24, 2013 5:44PM PDT




Xbox One preowned plan revealed?
[UPDATE] Retail sources claim Microsoft and publishers will take a percentage of every used game; Microsoft says reports are "inaccurate and incomplete"; new report says no secondhand fees at all.

[UPDATE 2] Sources have told Polygon that the Xbox One will not require gamers pay an activation fee to play used games, but will mandate regular checks to verify the authenticity of games.

Microsoft is also reportedly mulling over the idea of special "exemption codes" that could be provided to those in Internet-free scenarios, like active-duty soldiers.

[UPDATE] Following the publication of this story, Microsoft director of Xbox Live programming Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb provided a new statement on Xbox One and used games.

"The ability to trade in and resell games is important to gamers and to Xbox," he said. "Xbox One is designed to support the trade in and resale of games. Reports about our policies for trade in and resale are inaccurate and incomplete. We will disclose more information in the near future."

The original story follows below.

According to retail sources speaking with MCV, retailers will be able to charge whatever they want for secondhand Xbox One games, but Microsoft and publishers will receive a cut of every transaction.

The information leak comes after Microsoft reportedly briefed "key" partners on its plans for the secondhand market as it relates to the Xbox One, something Microsoft has been coy about.

The system will reportedly work as such: consumers can trade in physical Xbox One game discs only at retailers that have agreed to Microsoft's terms and conditions and have integrated the company's cloud-enabled Azure preowned technology into their own.

The traded-in title is then registered on Microsoft's systems as having been resold, and the data files will be cleared from their Xbox One account. Such a system would explain Microsoft's position that the Xbox One must "check in" with its servers once every 24 hours.

Retailers are then able to resell the used game at whatever price point they see fit. As part of this initiative, the publisher of the game will automatically receive a cut of the sale, along with Microsoft. The rest is revenue for the retailer.

It is unclear what this percentage will be, though Consoledeals.co.uk claims the portion paid to retailers will be 10 percent, well below the margins retailers have come to expect from secondhand games. This could negatively impact retailers like GameStop, which rely on the secondhand market for a healthy portion of their overall business.

During an earnings call yesterday, GameStop management brushed aside questions regarding the Xbox One and used games, instead saying it will allow Microsoft to announce plans in due time.

The site also suggests, based on information from a senior employee at "one of the UK's largest video game retailers," that the rumored Xbox One preowned activation fee will be £35 ($52). It is unclear if this fee will be an additional cost on top of the sticker price for secondhand games.

Microsoft's official stance on the Xbox One used-game scenario is that the platform has been designed "to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail."

"We know there is some confusion around used games on Xbox One and wanted to provide a bit of clarification on exactly what we've confirmed today," Microsoft said earlier this week. "While there have been many potential scenarios discussed, today we have only confirmed that we designed Xbox One to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail."

"Beyond that, we have not confirmed any specific scenarios."

Sony has also dodged questions regarding used games on the PlayStation 4. The company has confirmed that preowned titles will play on the next-generation system, but said decisions about activation fees will be left up to individual publishers.

"It's a publisher decision," Sony said in February. "We are not talking about it. Sorry."

[The Rick]

Is anyone worried that they haven't shown actual gameplay? All they showed were pre-rendered shots. And to be honest, I didn't think much of the stuff they showed. I will say again, this all about what they show at E3. IF they come out and show off one huge game that everyone wants to play(Left 4 Dead 3 anybody?), and they can get the early adopters to pick up their system.

[The Rick]

Is anyone worried that they haven't shown actual gameplay? All they showed were pre-rendered shots. And to be honest, I didn't think much of the stuff they showed. I will say again, this all about what they show at E3. IF they come out and show off one huge game that everyone wants to play(Left 4 Dead 3 anybody?), and they can get the early adopters to pick up their system.



And another thing. Does GTA V and other big games(Cod, Madden, Fifa) keep people from needing to pick up either system?


oops ment to edit, and not quote. its whatever though.

[The Rogerer]

Good grief, they have let this get away from them.

[VHS]

Is anyone worried that they haven't shown actual gameplay? All they showed were pre-rendered shots. And to be honest, I didn't think much of the stuff they showed. I will say again, this all about what they show at E3. IF they come out and show off one huge game that everyone wants to play(Left 4 Dead 3 anybody?), and they can get the early adopters to pick up their system.

The footage that they showed us wasn't really all that great to me either. I feel like the graphics war has been over for years now, and the details they showed us... like the dog models, the soldier models, the cars, and the (sigh) hairy arm... it's just not spectacular enough for me to think the graphics are game changing. I kept thinking "How are current gen consoles or PCs not able to do this already?" And besides, with games these days, you're running through levels and maps like a parkour nut on speed; when have we ever been able to stop and smell the roses and appreciate the hair on somebody's arm? What if we're playing COD? There isn't any time to notice any details, which is why I thought the One's graphics showcase was pointless. Sure, games like Bioshock Infinite and the upcoming Watch Dogs seem to be breaths of fresh air, but Microsoft's attitude of "Screw pre-gen console graphics LOOK AT THIS!" wasn't very smart.

As for why they didn't show any gameplay footage, it turns our they mentioned (somewhere) that they were saving it for E3. Lame.

[The_Mike]

Not showing any gameplay footage at all at the reveal of a games console pretty aptly demonstrates what the problem is here: Microsoft aren't making a games console. Apparently they think of this as some kind of living-room consuming object that will take care of all your media needs, one of them being games, I guess, if you really have to. I love the doublespeak of "gamers won't have to pay a fee, but publishers have to get a cut of used game sales". Yeah, because retailers are going to totally eat that cut out of the goodness of their barely beating hearts.

I'd love to see games retailers tell Microsoft to fuck off with the XBox One. Don't bother selling it. It'll only kill them faster. And fuck any fucking fuck who makes a games console that forbids me from swapping a game with a friend for a few days to try something out.

Also, how's rental going to work? Are Gamefly fucked too?

[Hero!]

http://i.minus.com/iGpVCeVzdBTUf.gif

Glad i'm a playstation boy. Cmon Sony, don't fuck up the ps4.

[Kunt 4 Life]

You know, reading through this, I miss the simple nice days of the super nintendo. I love my 3DS cause it still has decent respctable graphics that look pretty today, and yet doesnt have all this extra bullshit like registering and the like.

God, i'm an old fart.

[VHS]

They'll show a bunch of gameplay at E3 and enough people will go from backpedal to forward sprint like mindless cheetahs. It doesn't take much to disappoint fans, but it takes even less for them to forgive all when they see gameplay.

[The_Mike]

I strongly doubt that. Maybe I have too much faith in the average gamer CoD fanatic, but I don't see what Microsoft can really show off in terms of gameplay that will wash away the debacle of the whole reveal of what turned out to be a glorified cable box, the forcing of Kinect, and the fact that they are blatantly trying to steal the second hand market and kick gamers in the nuts for fun.

[Jez]

The average consumer sees their Xbox 360 as a Call of Duty/FIFA/Madden box anyway so the Xbox One reveal was sort of perfect for them. I have no doubt that the One will sell incredibly well, probably outselling the 360 within 3 or 4 years and that all this negative press will mean absolutely nothing. E3 will win back quite a few hurt 360 fanboys but as of now most people don't even know what all the fuss is about. By the time they know about the used game and always online crap it'll be too late.

[OD50]

Several reporters were tweeting during/immediately after the show that essentially all of the cheering and applause was coming from the Microsoft staff at the back.


Haha, that's sad.

[lotjx]

Late to the party on this, but this is a no go for me. Not that I am doing a lot with the 360 with a kid, but still. I don't see what the benefits of anything they are doing. Kinetic is a bomb, the graphics are not that great and fucking over the secondary market is just a spit on your grave moment. I have no idea why you can save your 360 games on the cloud, but can not play them on the One? It makes no sense. Honestly, none of what they are doing makes sense besides trying to make the brick and motor stores go bankrupt. Still, that also doesn't make sense, because a lot of their games can't be downloaded, yet. I have no idea what Microsoft was thinking with this, I already heard their stock went down after the release and there was a lot of complaining about it in some of the geek places I visited this weekend. Will, it sell well, maybe. We all thought PS3 was going to shatter records than well..you saw what happened with that. Xbox One could be the PS3 of the next generation systems.

[Bill Casey]

So basically, I can't bring a game over to a friend's house?

Fuck that...

[The Rick]

Is anybody worried about the Kenect camera having to be connected at all times? I know it comes with it out of the box, but many don't want it, and don't even want it hooked up.

[The Rogerer]

So basically, I can't bring a game over to a friend's house?

Fuck that...You're buying licences. You can log in your gamertag on your friend's One and that'll let you play the game as you'll have accessed your licence to play it.

[The Rick]

That's fine and all, but if you want to trade games with a friend you each have to pay a fee to play the game. Online passes, at least, only locked out some features. This renders the game inoperable for the next person, after playing it. Lets face it Microsoft is focusing primarily on the US. There are European courts that are making rulings, that it is legal to sell your software license to another person. What the Xbox ONE does, will not fly in other countries.
Microsoft is positioning itself to take over the living room, but they're trying to do it way to fast imo. The console fan boys are the who will show off the console, and I think Microsoft thinks they can bypass them.

[The Doc]

I'm only so worried about them forcing the Kinnect. They either need to force it or abandon it completely. There is nothing to gain from letting developers have a choice in the matter. It doesn't much matter to me which way they go but those are their realistic options.

As far as selling used games we'll see. If Xbox shows off some good exclusives they'll be just fine. Gamespot will bitch and whine but they won't ultimately do anything about it. They have no effective way of passing the fee onto the consumer in the first place so we're bitching because we like to bitch and because we don't want to support game makers. Then after we don't support them we want bitch more about how they put out Madden, Call of Duty and NBA so often they just number them by the year now and we only get something original and daring once a cycle.

Now ultimately I predict that just like with the PS3 the fact that gamers are vindictive fucks will end up doing the damage to them this cycle. If they succeed in their living room take over though it won't much matter what we think. Though PS3 promised the same thing, hell it was their fucking slogan. My expectations of this one are only slightly higher.

[The_Mike]

Is anybody worried about the Kenect camera having to be connected at all times? I know it comes with it out of the box, but many don't want it, and don't even want it hooked up.

I would be surprised if even Microsoft were actually recording or monitoring those things (though they do nose around in your Skydrive for agreement-infringing content, including personal photographs they might deem inappropriate), but it's a massive security and privacy issue nonetheless. Who wants videos of themselves or their children dancing in their pajamas to hit Youtube, and why the fuck would anybody want a recording device to just sit there in their home whether they have 'nothing to hide' or not? Again, it's unlikely to be an issue, especially with Microsoft directly, but people are going to be looking for ways to abuse these things. We've already had cases of school administrators getting in trouble for secretly recording from school-issued laptops, and their webcams have caught teenage students not wearing much while doing their homework in the privacy of their own bedrooms. As if they didn't expect that would happen. Sketchy doesn't begin to cover it.


You're buying licences. You can log in your gamertag on your friend's One and that'll let you play the game as you'll have accessed your licence to play it.

You'll have to download it first. I'm not going to a friend's house to play my copy of Fifa that I already paid for only to have to wait two hours for the thing to download to his hard drive. And I can't leave it with him unless I want to not be able to use my own Xbox at home. I refuse to play the game of buying licenses. I bought a game, whether Microsoft wants to pretend they sold me something else or not.


I'm only so worried about them forcing the Kinnect. They either need to force it or abandon it completely. There is nothing to gain from letting developers have a choice in the matter. It doesn't much matter to me which way they go but those are their realistic options.

As far as selling used games we'll see. If Xbox shows off some good exclusives they'll be just fine. Gamespot will bitch and whine but they won't ultimately do anything about it. They have no effective way of passing the fee onto the consumer in the first place so we're bitching because we like to bitch and because we don't want to support game makers. Then after we don't support them we want bitch more about how they put out Madden, Call of Duty and NBA so often they just number them by the year now and we only get something original and daring once a cycle.

Now ultimately I predict that just like with the PS3 the fact that gamers are vindictive fucks will end up doing the damage to them this cycle. If they succeed in their living room take over though it won't much matter what we think. Though PS3 promised the same thing, hell it was their fucking slogan. My expectations of this one are only slightly higher.

Who doesn't want to support game makers? I want to support them, I just won't be party to them being criminals taking away my property rights. I buy quality games at reasonable prices, assuming I actually get to own what I purchase, and it's not my fault AAA generally has a completely different take on what the terms 'quality', 'reasonable' and 'purchase' are. It's not our fault big publishers are becoming increasingly homogenous and reckless. Sim City was the poster child for what is an endemic problem: dishonesty, poor planning, poor quality control and a casual disregard for customers are becoming the hallmark of the games industry. Also there is a very effective way for Gamespot and co to pass on the fee: by charging more. That's what they'll do. They'll have to.

[The Doc]

Nobody will buy them if they charge more. Used games, unless you're talking old used games that you can often find NEW for pretty cheap are only a few bucks cheaper than the full purchase anyway. You're making the same assumption people make with taxes, every business is run innefficiently and wouldn't already be charging you more if you'd be willing to pay more for the product. They won't because they aren't and they won't have to because they aren't. It really is that damn simple. If by chance you're right and they ARE they'll simply stop selling used games all together but I have a hard time buying that when they buy a game from me for 25 bucks and turn around and sell it for 50 bucks that the profit margin is only five bucks which I'm sure is the maximum we're talking about for a license fee.

If people wanted to support the game makers the used game industry wouldn't exist in the FIRST place. Certainly not for new Triple A games where the price drops from 59.99 to 54.99.

It's a nice concept but I'm really not clear on how people came to the conclusion we have the right to pass around their product to begin with other than there was no effective way of stopping us. I do it too, I give my games away a lot of the time. I'm just not trying to pretend like I'm the noble person and not the thief.

Of course it's our fault the big publishers are becoming increasingly homogenous. I already pointed out exactly HOW it's our fault. There is nothing the average gamer can do about it, bitch all you want about Call of Duty there will be a new one for Christmas this year and we'll probably never see another LA Noire but lets not pretend it's anything but a numbers game and the numbers are there for one thing and not for another. I'm not going to defend every little thing they do because they have their faults. Faults that far too many people look past far too often. There is a reason why we have an annual "Wow, WWEXX is gonna suck" followed by half the thread owning the fucking game.

[darkhorse]

Is anybody worried about the Kenect camera having to be connected at all times? I know it comes with it out of the box, but many don't want it, and don't even want it hooked up.

I don't see myself buying an Xbox One anytime soon, but should the day come when I reconsider, a mandatory Kinect would still be a huge argument against it. The Kinect does not appeal to me on the 360, and quite frankly I would prefer the option of a Kinect-free Xbox One at a lower price.

[The_Mike]

Nobody will buy them if they charge more. Used games, unless you're talking old used games that you can often find NEW for pretty cheap are only a few bucks cheaper than the full purchase anyway. You're making the same assumption people make with taxes, every business is run innefficiently and wouldn't already be charging you more if you'd be willing to pay more for the product. They won't because they aren't and they won't have to because they aren't. It really is that damn simple. If by chance you're right and they ARE they'll simply stop selling used games all together but I have a hard time buying that when they buy a game from me for 25 bucks and turn around and sell it for 50 bucks that the profit margin is only five bucks which I'm sure is the maximum we're talking about for a license fee.

I usually see them 5-10 bucks cheaper if the release is pretty current, and 20 or more if it's older. I'm not making the assumption you assume I am (ha!), I am assuming that stores like Gamestop are already somewhat stretched and struggling to remain profitable. There's a reason 90% of the store is used games. In the UK, games retail has pretty much collapsed completely. These stores are having trouble staying afloat, and they're not likely to survive with their profit margin being eaten up by Microsoft and X Publisher deciding to ignore how property rights work. I have no idea how you think these stores would survive if they stopped selling used games, or where you got the idea that you have any clue what the license fee will be. Where are you coming up with this?


If people wanted to support the game makers the used game industry wouldn't exist in the FIRST place. Certainly not for new Triple A games where the price drops from 59.99 to 54.99.

That's bullshit. What people want and what people can afford are two different things, and 'people' are not 'every single person who buys a used game'. You're making a massive leap here, and forgetting that AAA isn't the entire games industry.


It's a nice concept but I'm really not clear on how people came to the conclusion we have the right to pass around their product to begin with other than there was no effective way of stopping us. I do it too, I give my games away a lot of the time. I'm just not trying to pretend like I'm the noble person and not the thief.

People came to that conclusion because we have that right with every other product ever. Books, videos, records, cars, even houses can be transferred or resold. You're not a thief for doing so. That kind of attitude is utterly bizarre to me. When you pay for something, you simply are not a thief for giving it to someone else. Jesus must be a criminal mastermind by your logic.

Edit to add: This also misses that the industries that service the games industry, rental and retail, will essentially be sunk. People will be put out of jobs, companies will fold, if this is the future of gaming. But I guess they were all just thieves and Microsoft is the noble one for pursuing the almighty dollar.


Of course it's our fault the big publishers are becoming increasingly homogenous. I already pointed out exactly HOW it's our fault. There is nothing the average gamer can do about it, bitch all you want about Call of Duty there will be a new one for Christmas this year and we'll probably never see another LA Noire but lets not pretend it's anything but a numbers game and the numbers are there for one thing and not for another. I'm not going to defend every little thing they do because they have their faults. Faults that far too many people look past far too often. There is a reason why we have an annual "Wow, WWEXX is gonna suck" followed by half the thread owning the fucking game.

You can keep saying that, it doesn't make it true. People look past faults because for a lot of them a relatively poor game is better than no game, that doesn't mean they have no right to complain about the game they bought or the industry at large, and it doesn't make the industry's unwillingness to do anything remotely different, or their open hostility toward consumers, at all acceptable. You say you're not going to defend every little thing they do, but you seem determined to find a way to blame anyone but the publishers for the publishers' own actions.

[The Rick]

I don't see myself buying an Xbox One anytime soon, but should the day come when I reconsider, a mandatory Kinect would still be a huge argument against it. The Kinect does not appeal to me on the 360, and quite frankly I would prefer the option of a Kinect-free Xbox One at a lower price.

At this point Microsoft has said the machinr will not run without the Kinect.

What actually scares me is that the Xbox sells well, that can give Sony free reign to do the same to their customers.


One of the thoughts to why EA dropped the onljne passes, were that they were making money hand over fist on micro-transaction on games like Fifa. A used game sell puts that game in the hands.of a customer that could possibly buy stuff from the Fifa store. And there is rumblings that there will be similar but different things planned for Battlefield 4. Micro-transaction for gun cammo, character uniforms, and possibly double xp time periods.

[Bad Collin]

I think micro transactions are fine as long as you don't need them to progress in the game. I have bought loads of gold packs on FIFA when I was addicted to the ultimate team mode but those Facebook games which make the levels impossible without buffs boil my blood.

I'm glad this pre-owned things has turned into such a PR shitstorm for Microsoft. The problem is, as people have pointed out, that the public forgive and forget these things too quickly.

[The_Mike]

I'd be surprised if the public forgets this one since the issue will last for the entire lifetime of the console and be more in their face than the usual DRM/crappy server nonsense. They simply won't be able to swap games or bring them to a friend's house and they might find second hand sales and rentals for this console practically vanish. It's going to try to change how people behave, and they don't usually like that. Then again, Microsoft convinced people to pay an annual subscription to use their home's bandwidth to play games they already bought via Live, so perhaps I am too optimistic. But if I'm too optimistic, god help humanity.

[stylepoints]

If I buy a game, I try to purchase it through digital download. A little more expensive but I like the convenience of it all. I have been a member of Gamefly for about 3 years now. I'm guessing that because of the pre-owned thing the company will be going bye bye should Microsoft' s plans go down.

[Bad Collin]

I'd be surprised if the public forgets this one since the issue will last for the entire lifetime of the console and be more in their face than the usual DRM/crappy server nonsense. They simply won't be able to swap games or bring them to a friend's house and they might find second hand sales and rentals for this console practically vanish. It's going to try to change how people behave, and they don't usually like that. Then again, Microsoft convinced people to pay an annual subscription to use their home's bandwidth to play games they already bought via Live, so perhaps I am too optimistic. But if I'm too optimistic, god help humanity.

It depends what Sony do. If both of them fold to the demands of the big software houses then people will just accept it as 'the way things are'. Sony need to stand up for gamers here.

I don't think Live was too bad. Silver membership is free and imagine if every software company charged you to use their servers?

[The_Mike]

Was silver always free? I thought you had to pay for silver until the 360 was launched.

Usually software companies do charge you to use their servers - it's called buying their software.

[The Rick]

gamesindustry link (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-28-xbox-one-games-will-be-region-locked)
By Brendan Sinclair TUE 28 MAY 2013




Xbox One games will be region-locked
Microsoft's next-gen console to keep games from one region from running on another region's hardware

Any hope that Microsoft's next console would be importer-friendly has been squashed, as Digital Trends has received confirmation that Xbox One will prevent software of one region from playing on the hardware of another.

"Similar to the movie and music industry, games must meet country-specific regulatory guidelines before they are cleared for sale," a Microsoft representative told the site. "We will continue to work with our partners to follow these guidelines with Xbox One."

Like most home consoles, Microsoft's Xbox and Xbox 360 were also region-locked. There is one current exception, as Sony did not mandate region locks for PlayStation 3 games.

[The Rick]

kotaku link (http://kotaku.com/microsoft-doesnt-own-xboxone-com-files-dispute-agains-509919629)
by OWEN GOOD Sunday 3:00pm




Microsoft Doesn't Own XboxOne.com, Files Dispute Against Guy Who Does

Though it may seem ridiculous that Microsoft would name its new console without already owning the domain name for it, there are a couple of mitigating factors here. One is that the guy who owns XboxOne.com registered the name almost two years ago. That's some good guessing!

Fusible reports that Microsoft has filed a complaint with the National Arbitration Forum over the domain name to thwart the lucky cybersquatter, whom records say is a resident of the U.K. and registered the name in December 2011. XboxOne.net also is covered in the same complaint, indicating it is owned by the same person, Fusible notes.

Domain registrations are public (indeed, Fusible sniffs out all of them for clues on upcoming games, movies and whatnot). Worse, to have entered into a legal dispute over ownership of a domain name for which no product or service currently existed, would have tipped off everyone what Microsoft was going to call its next console. So the company probably figured it just had to suck it up and battle this thing out after they announced the device. Microsoft seems to have done well in these disputes anyway.

[The Rick]

ign has a side by side comparison of the known details between PS4, Xbox ONE, and WiiU

PS4 vs. Xbox One vs. Wii U Comparison Chart (http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_vs._Xbox_One_vs._Wii_U_Comparison_Chart)

[The_Mike]

Microsoft can fuck off.

[Matthew]

cant wait to get one of these badboys

[The Rick]

ign link (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/28/german-privacy-official-xbox-one-is-twisted-nightmare)
by Lauren Hockenson MAY 28, 2013




German Official Criticizes Xbox One's Data Collecting
Kinect's all-seeing eye rubs Comissioner Peter Schaar the wrong way.

A lot of people were wowed last week when Microsoft showed off the responsiveness of the new generation Kinect perched on top of the forthcoming Xbox One, but not everyone is thrilled by the advances the company has made in facial recognition. Escapist reports that when German website Spiegel asked Germany's Federal Data Protection Commissioner Peter Schaar about the technology, he called it a "monitoring device."

"The Xbox continuously records all sorts of personal information about me. Reaction rates, my learning or emotional states," Schaar said. "They are then processed on an external server, and possibly even passed on to third parties. Whether they will ever deleted, the person cannot influence."

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2013/05/XboxOne-610x343.jpg

In a statement to Kotaku, Microsoft reiterated its commitment to user privacy, stating that the Kinect can be turned off, despite needing to be connected in order for the console to function:

"We know our customers want and expect strong privacy protections to be built into our products, devices and services, and for companies to be responsible stewards of their data. Microsoft has more than ten years of experience making privacy a top priority. Kinect for Xbox 360 was designed and built with strong privacy protections in place and the new Kinect will continue this commitment. We’ll share more details later."

With Microsoft deliberately keeping things under wraps, folks like Schaar are concerned that more damaging facts are obscured from the public. Most importantly, that information about individual users will filter back to the Seattle-based company's main data banks, acting a little more Big Brother than most people would be comfortable with.

Despite his concern, however, Schaar expressed doubts that Microsoft had malicious intent for the data it is collecting from Xbox One users, calling spying claims "merely a twisted nightmare."

What do you think of Microsoft's new Kinect and its tight integration with Xbox One? Let us know in the comments.

EDITOR'S NOTE: An earlier version of this story cited an erroneous translation of Schaar's comments. Instead of supporting the suggestion that the Kinect's monitoring practices were part of a deliberate data gathering strategy, Schaar was, in fact, expressing skepticism of any conspiracy on Microsoft's behalf. The copy has since been updated.

[Kneeneighbor]

cant wait to get one of these badboys

Ahh so you're the one.

[The Rick]

ign link (http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/List_of_Xbox_One_Games)




List of Confirmed Xbox One Games
These games were confirmed to be next-gen Xbox games at the Xbox announcement on May 21, 2013. At the Xbox One announcement Microsoft claimed to have 15 Xbox One exclusive games in its first year, with 8 of those being new franchises.

Assassin's Creed 4 - Ubisoft Montreal
Battlefield 4 - EA Digital Illusions CE (DICE)
Call of Duty: Ghosts - Infinity Ward 11.5.2013
Destiny - Bungie
Dying Light - Techland
FIFA Soccer 14 - EA
Forza Motorsport 5 - Turn 10
Madden 25 - EA
NBA Live 14 - EA
Need for Speed Rivals - EA
Quantum Break - Remedy Entertainment
Ryse - Crytek
Thief - Eidos Studios Montreal
EA Sports UFC - EA
Watch Dogs - Ubisoft

E3 should flesh out more release dates, as well as add a wealth of new titles to that list.

[T.I (uh oh)]

It depends what Sony do. If both of them fold to the demands of the big software houses then people will just accept it as 'the way things are'. Sony need to stand up for gamers here.

If Microsoft really are bowing to the pressure of the publishers in regards to DRM, I fail to see any possible scenario where Sony could not have a similar policy and retain support from said publishers. In this case, Sony either want third party support, or they don't. Either they screw themselves, or they screw the consumer.

Regardless, I don't think the current outrage on this issue is going to make that much difference in the end. Gamers been bent over on countless occasions in the last decade by almost every publisher, yet they continue to buy their games time after time. The gaming community needs to stand up for themselves, and send the publishers a message by not opening their wallet.

[The Rogerer]

The issue is we don't know how much of that money is going to go to the publisher. What percentage will just go to Microsoft?

Sony can do what it wants, otherwise. If the policy leads to a lower uptake of games or less Xboxes sold, then they'll take whatever they can get from Sony. The unspoken upside of pre-owned is that you can get your game traded in, but you can also have people trade in other games for your games. People may not be willing to increase the amount of money they spend on games, so as long as they can trade in there's a bigger chance they'll be able to pay for your game new. If they can't trade in that old game, they'll just stick with that purchase and skip yours.

[Bad Collin]

Was silver always free? I thought you had to pay for silver until the 360 was launched.

Usually software companies do charge you to use their servers - it's called buying their software.

I'm not sure, I had a PS2 rather than a Xbox.

Maybe it's because I'm not much of a social gamer but I see multiplayer as a add on rather than the main game. I don't necessarily see that spending £40 on a game entitles you to server space too but like I say, I don't go online much.


If Microsoft really are bowing to the pressure of the publishers in regards to DRM, I fail to see any possible scenario where Sony could not have a similar policy and retain support from said publishers. In this case, Sony either want third party support, or they don't. Either they screw themselves, or they screw the consumer.

Regardless, I don't think the current outrage on this issue is going to make that much difference in the end. Gamers been bent over on countless occasions in the last decade by almost every publisher, yet they continue to buy their games time after time. The gaming community needs to stand up for themselves, and send the publishers a message by not opening their wallet.

I think Sony can stand up to the publishers. I don't see too many of them limiting themselves to one system.

[Beefy]

If Microsoft really are bowing to the pressure of the publishers in regards to DRM, I fail to see any possible scenario where Sony could not have a similar policy and retain support from said publishers. In this case, Sony either want third party support, or they don't. Either they screw themselves, or they screw the consumer.


Sony have said all along what they're going to do - the system will support the blocking of pre-owned games but that it will be up to the publisher to decide whether to use it or not.

[Beefy]

Maybe it's because I'm not much of a social gamer but I see multiplayer as a add on rather than the main game. I don't necessarily see that spending £40 on a game entitles you to server space too but like I say, I don't go online much.



It doesn't. Online Pass was fully justified as servers cost money and the service should be shared amongst those gamers who use it whether they buy games new or second hand.

You can't compare a game with a car, or a house, or a pair of jeans or pretty much anything else because all of those items and most others that you can sell second hand deteriorate over time. Most video games are played once (if that in my case...) and so if you're selling it on the person buying is getting the exact same experience with no depreciation. I bought one pre-owned game this generation (Arkham Asylum) and I played exactly the same game as the person who owned it previously.

[The Rogerer]

I don't think Xbox live was paying for specific game servers - those servers would be maintained by the publishers, and a lot of the legwork was actually done by the console itself in a multiplayer game (the 'host' console). They then had to maintain their live servers, but those sold advertising space and was there to deliver games and films that you were paying for. Why put Netflix behind an Xbox live fee? Microsoft isn't doing any work there. It's simply charging a captive audience.

The one thing that I've anecdotally heard that Gold money is used for is securing those DLC exclusives. If that's the case, then a customer is paying money so MS can buy off a company so that people on the PS3 have to wait longer to buy that DLC, and in no way enhances the experience of that customer.

It's not a ridiculous amount of money but it's still an arbitrary charge. Imagine your broadband provider decided to charge you by the minute, like old dial-up. They considered it in the UK but it was opposed.

[Beefy]

Sorry, I meant the online pass style system rather than Gold. I'd guess that, for example, 90% of FIFA players play online most of the time in one of head to head, Clubs or Ultimate Team. To me, it doesn't seem unreasonable for EA to have charged £8 for online access to someone who otherwise hasn't contributed anything to the costs of maintaining servers capable of running up to half a million matches at any one time.

Obviously EA have now decided that they can make more money without charging it, but IMO the principle of charging for the online pass isn't as unreasonable as some people like to hold it up as being.

[The Rogerer]

The cost of the servers wasn't an issue, really, for current console multiplayer (This cloud stuff that MS is promising is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more demanding) A game like Hitman: Absolution has a online pass to play 'contracts' mode, where you're pretty much just uploading to a scoreboard. Mass Effect 2 used the 'online pass' to cover an extra character, nothing online. The online pass was a result of trying to do something about second hand sales, and I would say also trying to prevent people trading in games because it would devalue them and they'd have a piece of the package they were stuck with so they might as well hang onto it. The thing about the servers is a bit of a rationalisation for their strategy. I've paid for online passes and I've accepted the process as I don't think it was especially terrible, but it is a choice to charge for something that they could viably do for free. I don't think it was a terrible system, but a bit like Gold, it was trying to find out what you can convince people to pay for.

What I found interesting about the Online pass was the weird way it worked - you were entitled to your single player game, but the multiplayer couldn't be traded. Things like Battlefield, Call of Duty especially become weird products that are actually two things in one package. I'm starting to think less in the notion of single player games and accepting the multi player element. The (in my opinion) stupid and boring campaign of Halo 4 made me feel disappointed with that 'game', but really, I didn't play the real Halo that people love, the multiplayer, so what did I play?

[The Rogerer]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-05-30-ea-makes-some-online-pass-content-free-on-xbox-marketplace

And just saying that, they are now offering a load of previous Online Pass things for free on Xbox marketplace. Curious as to what happens with the PS3, although EA and MS are big buds now, etc.

[VHS]

Pre-order peice: £599.99

Please note that there are no official prices announced for Xbox One products. The price stated above is a placeholder. With our Pre-order Price Guarantee, you can order now and if the Amazon.co.uk price decreases between the time you place your order and the release date, you'll be charged the lowest price.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/ref=pe_283501_36832851_pe_02b/?ASIN=B00BE4OUBG.

[The Rogerer]

They're just hedging their bets. If they quoted a price that was too low, they'd have to honour it. Probably going to be another comedy PR blow though, and MS is proving to be pretty bad at dealing with these things

[BBF]

WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH Is anyone else hearing the £90 for a game rumour???

[The_Mike]

$90 I can see as possible, but £90 would be ludicrous. Like Rog said, that's a placeholder that is deliberately set high so they don't get burned if the price is a little higher than what most expect, which is about $60/£45.

[lotjx]

$90 is still way too high. I have heard $65 to $75 a game which is still way too high. $600 for the system is $200 less than what I heard which is good if I wasn't completely turned off by everything else MS is doing.

[Hero!]

$90 for a video game when a large portion of Americans can't even find jobs? Brilliant work there.

[The Rick]

Strictly rumor and conjecture at this point. And I wouldn't put it past either company to start these rumors either. Maybe trying to float prices out to the public, and see where prices draw the ire of people. Then they just have to back off if that a bit.

[The Rick]

gamespot link (http://www.gamespot.com/news/microsoft-trying-to-get-hollywood-execs-on-board-with-xbox-one-report-6409244)
By Eddie Makuch June 4, 2013 11:45AM PDT




Microsoft trying to get Hollywood execs on board with Xbox One - Report
CEO Steve Ballmer reportedly attempting to curry favor with executives for exclusive content for next-generation gaming console.

Hollywood news site Deadline reports today that Microsoft has held meetings with Hollywood and television executives in an attempt to drum up excitement over the Xbox One.

The site claims Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer and Entertainment president Nancy Tellem have met with CBS CEO Leslie Moonves, WME co-CEOs Ari Emanuel and Patrick Whitesell, and other "bigwigs" in the TV business about the Xbox One.

Ballmer reportedly discussed "what we could do" with Xbox One as it relates to sports, music, reality, and scripted programming, going on to pledge that it could offer "more sophisticated technology."

He also supposedly told the executives that Microsoft "doesn't want to be a cable channel."

Microsoft hired Tellem in September, bringing her on to develop "interactive and linear content for Xbox and other devices" at a new production studio in Los Angeles.

During the Xbox One announcement last month, Microsoft highlighted a number of entertainment options for the platform. Users will be able to stream live television through the device, and thanks to a partnership with the NFL, viewers can track player statistics onscreen while watching a game.

In addition, Microsoft announced a partnership with ESPN and a live-action Halo television series. E.T. director Steven Spielberg is involved with the production, though his role has not been detailed.

[VanillaJello]

I'm glad they learned from their cluster of a debut presser.

[The_Mike]

Exclusive games, though I hate the idea, at least makes some sense as you can argue it was written specifically for a platform and would not necessarily work on a different machine. We better not end up with platforms carrying exclusive TV shows, though. It makes no sense, is transparently a greed-driven attempt to force people to buy a $600 machine, and isn't likely to do anybody any good. Who buys a massively powerful games box to watch TV on? Microsoft appear obsessed with this TV thing. Hopefully the subheading of that article has the wrong end of the stick.

[Pablo Diablo]

The Xbox One will have some great games. Some great exclusive games too. I don't know why people think that won't be the case. Their first press was awful, but I always expected E3 to be where they showed off most of their games. What they did that was smart was they announced a bunch of the unflattering stuff like the required Kinect and the used game stuff at the early part. Then they're going to get people excited about the games at E3 and for the average person that may be enough.

[The_Mike]

Of course it will have some great games, and eventually I'm sure Microsoft will throw enough money at certain developers to attain great exclusives. The issue is that it doesn't appear that Microsoft have even remembered that games are the point of the console, or that the new console facilitates newer, better games in any way. This just looks like Malibu Stacy with a new hat, except the hat spies on you and steals your property rights.

The problem has never been that there won't be any games. The problem is that the games aren't nearly as important to Microsoft as trying to control people's entire living room. They are only excited about the features of the console that nobody asked for.

[The Rick]

ign link (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/06/microsoft-details-xbox-one-used-games-always-online)
by Andrew Goldfarb JUNE 6, 2013



Microsoft Details Xbox One Used Games, Always Online
24-hour offline limit confirmed, games can be transferred to other players once.

Always Online
As explained by Microsoft, “while a persistent connection is not required, Xbox One is designed to verify if system, application or game updates are needed and to see if you have acquired new games, or resold, traded in, or given your game to a friend. Games that are designed to take advantage of the cloud may require a connection.”

“With Xbox One you can game offline for up to 24 hours on your primary console, or one hour if you are logged on to a separate console accessing your library. Offline gaming is not possible after these prescribed times until you re-establish a connection, but you can still watch live TV and enjoy Blu-ray and DVD movies."

"In our role as a game publisher, Microsoft Studios will enable you to give your games to friends or trade in your Xbox One games at participating retailers. Third party publishers may opt in or out of supporting game resale and may set up business terms or transfer fees with retailers. Microsoft does not receive any compensation as part of this. In addition, third party publishers can enable you to give games to friends."

Microsoft added "because every Xbox One owner has a broadband connection, developers can create massive, persistent worlds that evolve even when you’re not playing."

Used Games and Giving Games to Friends
“We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.”

Microsoft says "your friends and family, your guests and acquaintances get unlimited access to all of your games. Anyone can play your games on your console--regardless of whether you are logged in or their relationship to you." The company added that “Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.”

It's worth noting that Microsoft allows you to gift games to friends but they can't borrow them. Microsoft added that "loaning or renting games won’t be available at launch, but we are exploring the possibilities with our partners."

Xbox One will also allow you to give up to 10 family members access to "log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One." Similar to Xbox 360, "a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time."

Kinect Requirements
According to Xbox's official site, "at Microsoft, we prioritize your privacy. We understand that your personal data and privacy are important. Xbox One and Kinect will provide tools to put you in control of your data."

Microsoft stresses that "you are in control of what Kinect can see and hear. By design, you will determine how responsive and personalized your Xbox One is to you and your family during setup. The system will navigate you through key privacy options, like automatic or manual sign in, privacy settings, and clear notifications about how data is used. When Xbox One is on and you’re simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded."

Players will also control whether Kinect is on, off or paused. "If you don’t want the Kinect sensor on while playing games or enjoying your entertainment, you can pause Kinect. To turn off your Xbox One, just say 'Xbox Off.' When the system is off, it’s only listening for the single voice command -- 'Xbox On,' and you can even turn that feature off too. Some apps and games may require Kinect functionality to operate, so you’ll need to turn it back on for these experiences."

Your personal data will never be available to anyone outside of your console, Microsoft stressed. "You can play games or enjoy applications that use data, such as videos, photos, facial expressions, heart rate and more, but this data will not leave your Xbox One without your explicit permission."

[Morrison]

it all feels needlessly convoluted.

[The_Mike]

It feels like they're crowing about being able to do the most basic things in the world, like watch TV or give a friend a game, and as a bonus you get to jump through a bunch of hoops and be treated like a crook. I have to be friends with somebody for 30 days before Microsoft considers them a good enough friend to give away my own property to? Fuck Microsoft. And what use is sharing your library among your family? My family are probably in my bloody house, and if they aren't, they are not going to sit around for four hours waiting on Forza 4 downloading. They throw us a bone that's made of ceramic.

Also, pretty sure Microsoft were the ones who said they were getting a cut of the resale of games, so now that they've changed their tune again, I honestly believe they are continuing to make this up as they go along. The 24-hour limit is blatantly a compromise they cooked up when their dream of always on was met with hostility. I guarantee they will try again next time, assuming the market was softened up enough, and it's not as if it remotely solves any of the problems of always on by changing that to "needs to be online every day". If my cable is out for a couple of days, I can't play any fucking games, but at Microsoft is happy to tell me I can still watch live TV. Brilliant. Utter fucking morons. I don't normally get so hysterical over a product, I hate stupid console wars and don't really feel like getting stuck in to something I could just walk away from, but I honestly hope this machine fails and fails hard. Microsoft's grotesque sense of entitlement to people's money and property and privacy has to come with consequences. It will utterly destroy an industry I actually care about if it goes unchecked.

[Atty]

I want this system less the more I find out about it.

[The Rick]

Yea. Microsoft would have been better off if they had laid low after the press conference. Keep things vague, and let the games at E3 sell the system. Each day there is a new press release "clearing up details", and each time it seems to be at the detriment towards the customer. my biggest concern is the online issue for the success of the console.

-must connect online
This is a problem for many countries. Hell the midwest has problems in maintaining decent internet signals. Think about troops overseas, developing countries, natural disasters, and their own server outages. This is a plan that was poorly planned, and alienates many potential customers. Why would you want to cut off vast sections of customers before your system is released?

[Hlebsfall]

I know this will sell by the truckload, but unless it gets announced that games are going to be a tenner or something, you would be a moron for wanting one.

[Vice]

http://www.abload.de/img/drm4yjrw.png

It all sounds like some stupid compromise between 8 year olds over who gets to play with which toys.

[Jez]

What I will say is fair play to Microsoft for finally being honest and clearing things up, something Sony is yet to do. Their policies are very anti-consumer but we have all suspected that this may be the case for months now. The PS4 will not be much different because a lot of these policies have been dictated by publishers so those looking at Sony as the good guys should probably stop now. That being said I think the 'must connect once a day' will be exclusive to the Xbox One because Sony have already said you don't need to be connected, unless they change their mind. This doesn't have much effect on me as my internet is stable but I can see that restriction pissing people off big style in various situations.

Eurogamer's summary of the announced policies is a great read:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-07-microsoft-kills-game-ownership-and-expects-us-to-smile

[Bad Collin]

Looks like i'll be getting a PC then, I'm not having any part of this shit.

[OD50]

Your personal data will never be available to anyone outside of your console, Microsoft stressed. "You can play games or enjoy applications that use data, such as videos, photos, facial expressions, heart rate and more, but this data will not leave your Xbox One without your explicit permission."

Yeah, right.:lol:

I'm really not excited by this console anymore.
IllumiRoom.. Illuminati.. I'm on to you Gates.. :sherlock:

[Beefy]

It feels like they're crowing about being able to do the most basic things in the world, like watch TV or give a friend a game, and as a bonus you get to jump through a bunch of hoops and be treated like a crook. I have to be friends with somebody for 30 days before Microsoft considers them a good enough friend to give away my own property to? Fuck Microsoft. And what use is sharing your library among your family? My family are probably in my bloody house, and if they aren't, they are not going to sit around for four hours waiting on Forza 4 downloading. They throw us a bone that's made of ceramic.


To be slightly fair, you won't need to download the whole game to start playing it. Like the PS4, it'll be set up so that you download a tiny part of the file which allows the game to start and then you download the rest in the background. It's actually one decent feature that they're highlighting.

[lotjx]

What I will say is fair play to Microsoft for finally being honest and clearing things up, something Sony is yet to do. Their policies are very anti-consumer but we have all suspected that this may be the case for months now. The PS4 will not be much different because a lot of these policies have been dictated by publishers so those looking at Sony as the good guys should probably stop now. That being said I think the 'must connect once a day' will be exclusive to the Xbox One because Sony have already said you don't need to be connected, unless they change their mind. This doesn't have much effect on me as my internet is stable but I can see that restriction pissing people off big style in various situations.

Eurogamer's summary of the announced policies is a great read:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-07-microsoft-kills-game-ownership-and-expects-us-to-smile

Everything in that article can be applied to all digital medias and that is why physical stores are doomed. And in a lot of ways these industries are hurting themselves.

[Jez]

Not true - On my kindle I can download a book and then stay offline forever and will be able to read that book for as long as the device works. On my phone I can download an app or music and if I turn on Flight mode and never connect to the internet again the apps and music will still work for as long as the device works. If I download a game onto my 3DS, Vita, 360, PS3, PSP, Wii, Wii U or DSi and never connect to the internet again I will be able to play those games forever as long as the device works.

Now Microsoft have said you no longer own these games, you own a license to play them. If my internet is down because I have decided to switch internet providers or I'm moving house then I won't be able to play those games. If Microsoft's servers go down for any reason I won't be able to play games and in 20 years when the XB1 servers are closed my XB1 retro console becomes a big shiny blu-ray player with no other functions.

This may be more understandable if it was only for the digital media that Xbox sell but if you own the game on disc it doesn't matter - you STILL won't be able to play the game you paid for. That's like if I bought a Blu-Ray and was only allowed to lend it to one friend, and if I was watching it at home my blu-ray needed to be connected to my home network or else it would refuse to play. This is unheard of which is why everyone is reacting so negatively towards it.

A huge portion of the planet do not have access to 1.5 MBps broadband and it is quite frankly baffling that Microsoft would adopt such a policy. The benefits to the consumer in no way equal the rights they are losing. This console will confuse and frustrate consumers who don't understand what the cloud is or why they need it. What were they thinking?!

[Alf]

It's a fairly mad decision. We'll see if consumers vote with their feet.

[The_Mike]

To be slightly fair, you won't need to download the whole game to start playing it. Like the PS4, it'll be set up so that you download a tiny part of the file which allows the game to start and then you download the rest in the background. It's actually one decent feature that they're highlighting.

I was not aware of that, thanks. That's a little better, though naturally remains problematic for anyone without a decent connection or with a download cap. For the rest, though, it's kinda cool.

[The Rick]

gamespot link (http://www.gamespot.com/news/publishers-undecided-on-blocking-xbox-one-preowned-sales-6409463)
By Eddie Makuch June 7, 2013 2:02PM PDT



Publishers undecided on blocking Xbox One preowned sales
[UPDATE] Bethesda, Sega, Capcom, Take-Two, and Ubisoft won't yet clarify if they will allow secondhand games or charge activate fees for next-gen software; EA and Activision only companies not to respond.

Microsoft announced yesterday that decisions about allowing used Xbox One games would be left up to publishers. Though the power is in their hands, the companies behind Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto, among others, aren't yet ready to discuss what plans they have for the secondhand market.


GameSpot contacted major publishers including Activision Blizzard, Electronic Arts, Capcom, Bethesda, Warner Bros., Take-Two, Ubisoft, and Konami about their stance on Xbox One used games and did not receive a definitive stance from any company.

Bethesda said, "We haven't had time to fully understand and evaluate their policy." Sega chimed in with, "We are currently discussing within Sega policies relating to the new generation of consoles. As soon as these have been agreed upon with all concerned partners we will make the information public."

A Capcom representative said, "At present Capcom has not announced any titles for Xbox One so any decision regarding allowing trade-ins or loaning games has not been determined."

A representative for Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment said it is unlikely that the company has an official statement, while Grand Theft Auto parent publisher Take-Two Interactive declined to comment.

Konami said, "We have nothing official to share at this time."

Assassin's Creed and Far Cry publisher Ubisoft added in, "We're just now getting more information about Microsoft's plan and starting to examine what it means for our games. We don't have anything new to share right now, but rest assured we'll continue to focus on providing the best experience for our customers no matter how or where they buy our games."

At press time, Activision Blizzard and Electronic Arts had not responded to requests for comment.

Though publishers are remaining quiet on plans for secondhand Xbox One games, Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter has been outspoken. In a note to investors today, the analyst said publisher are not likely to block used Xbox One games or require an activation fee.

"In our view, any publisher that disables used gaming risks a backlash or boycott of its titles by gamers, negatively impacting sales," he said.

The uncertainty surrounding Xbox One used games has not hurt retailer GameStop. The company's share value climbed more than 7 percent today.

[Beefy]

If Microsoft's servers go down for any reason I won't be able to play games and in 20 years when the XB1 servers are closed my XB1 retro console becomes a big shiny blu-ray player with no other functions.

This may be more understandable if it was only for the digital media that Xbox sell but if you own the game on disc it doesn't matter - you STILL won't be able to play the game you paid for. That's like if I bought a Blu-Ray and was only allowed to lend it to one friend, and if I was watching it at home my blu-ray needed to be connected to my home network or else it would refuse to play. This is unheard of which is why everyone is reacting so negatively towards it.


I doubt that this will happen. They'd likely remove the need to connect to the internet with the final firmware update. The danger would be what would happen if you woke up one morning and Microsoft had gone bust overnight.

[VHS]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/08/e3-2013-call-of-duty-ghosts-diving-into-the-campaign

So I watched the COD videos and I'm failing to see what makes this "next gen" technology. The graphics look like they could easily be used on a PS3 or 360.

[Olympus]

I feel like the closer we get to photo-realism, the deeper you have to look to find the improvements. Things like textures, fire, shadows, particles, etc... it's all more subtle.

(N.B.- I didn't watch the Ghosts video, but I noticed a lot of those little things in the Killzone video at the Sony press conference.)

[VHS]

I noticed things about the Killzone video too... like people disappearing right after the explosion. You see people running away and BOOP they just disappear, it's hilarious. I made a gif of it... lemme find it just a sec.

http://i.imgur.com/T0bZzFc.gif

http://i.imgur.com/VN03ch6.gif

"Next gen"... more like current gen stapled together with extra staples.

[The_Mike]

To be fair, these videos aren't from the finished product, but I really haven't been impressed so far.

[Olympus]

I just remember the helicopter approach at the beginning of the video. The reflections, smoke, and other effects all looked awesome. I'm sure high end PC's can do the same thing now (not a PC gamer), but I thought it looked pretty cool.

[Bill Casey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwYUGtI6guY

Ouch.

[The Rogerer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzmVcasl3ZU
Why did they let him be their spokesman? He can't help but be condescending.

Also Geoff there gets grief over the doritos picture, but in reality he will bite back when interviewing.

[Peter Griffin]

Ha fuck me :rofl:

[Alf]

Wowzer...

[Atty]

Bwahaha.

I'm now thinking One is a social experiment to see what people will actually buy. A hundred dollars more than PS4, required subscriptions and internet access, no used games. It's a fucking mess. They've tried to bill it as a home entertainment center, but people won't pay that price for that, when increasingly Smart TVs, cable/satellite boxes, computers and tablets already do most of it. You put someone in front of a One for $500 plus subscription and a $70 blu-ray player that streams Netflix and they're not going to buy the One.

Sony's E3 was just a massive knock out blow.

[lotjx]

Yeah, I wasn't even thinking PS4 until XBox One shat all over themselves. $300 for a next gen console with blu ray, built in Netflix and no one spying on me. Shit, can't wait for my refund check next year.

[Bad Collin]

I thought they were just having some PR disasters but it is becoming increasingly clear that they just haven't got a fucking clue what they are doing.

[The Rogerer]

It will be the confidence of their current position, plus Microsoft's wider headlessness.

[Peter Griffin]

'The Xbox One will not launch in Asia until late 2014! It's believed Microsoft want to 'tweak' the console for the Asian market after the appeal for the PS4 has gathered momentum'

Tweak the console? :wtf: . This just gets better.

[VHS]

By tweak I think he means drop it into oncoming traffic.

[The Rogerer]

I'm guessing they mean China by that, and trying to deal with the fact that they're massive pirates and they probably won't touch it with a bargepole if they don't do something.

If they're including Japan, it'll just be because they know it will do even worse than the 360 did, and they'll probably wait until they can make it cheaper.

[Cewsh]

Well Microsoft has practically zero market penetration in Japan. Maybe they'll disguise it as a Wii.

[The_Mike]

They should call it a Wii60.

Mattrick's response is exactly why I hope the Xbox One fails hard. Microsoft's head is so far up their ass they are shocked to discover not everyone on the planet has broadband or wants to have their papers checked every single day just to play games. How do you get in a position where this comes as a surprise?

Also, isn't tweaking the console to specific markets something that should have been worked out while designing the thing? It's not as if Asia sprang into existence yesterday morning. MS seem to have managed to catch themselves flat-footed with their own ineptitude. It is startling to behold this disaster.

[The Rogerer]

The bizarre thing is the new model of the 360 that they're bringing out - there's a 4GB version for $199 that is going to be £149. In 2008, I bought the new 360 Arcade edition for £130 and that wasn't a special deal (the special deal was that you actually got Halo 3 included for that price). So 5 years later, their practically identical entry level device is £20 more expensive.

I suppose they won't loss lead on it as much as they could, but it should count for more than that.

[Bill Casey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yC8FbgGnd0
Why did they let him be their spokesman? He can't help but be condescending.

Also Geoff there gets grief over the doritos picture, but in reality he will bite back when interviewing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZxzJGgox_E

[DDT]

What. The. Hell.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Getting-Xbox-Live-Account-Banned-on-Xbox-One-Means-Losing-Access-to-All-Games-361158.shtml

[mr sabu]

i normally couldn't give 2 fucks about console wars

but keep it up microsoft... your sure giving it easy to sony this gen

[The Doc]

I really hate that I'm considering going back to Sony for a PS4, especially since I don't think they really learned their lesson so much as Microsoft apparently lost their damn minds. Even so Killer Instinct. . .there isn't shit on PS4 that I care about and I suspect that the Xbox will be teh place for good exclusives this gen. (Assuming they can get the fucking Kinnect to work, but forcing people to work with it seems to have been a quality plan for the DS.)

[Pablo Diablo]

What. The. Hell.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Getting-Xbox-Live-Account-Banned-on-Xbox-One-Means-Losing-Access-to-All-Games-361158.shtml

This was apparently in reference to the 360. Not the One.

https://twitter.com/xboxsupport1/status/345775684045660160

Granted it still could be the case on the One but that's not for sure yet. Although with the way the system is set up I don't see how it can be anything but the way it will go.

[The Rogerer]

I thought at first the only reason people got banned was for pirating, but there has been a history of people being banned for getting games from shops early. Also, look at how EA managed to ban people on Origin from their entire game collections for extremely minor infractions.


I suspect that the Xbox will be teh place for good exclusives this gen. Such as...? That didn't work out this generation.

[Excel]

I felt it did at first but in the last couple years, sonys exclusives have shit all over Microsoft

[The_Mike]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/300x300/30062855.jpg

Oh dear.

[OD50]

:lol:

Not getting me no XboxOne, no fucking way.

[Vice]

So, he's finally apologized for all of this bullshit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46yBdG6cicA

[The Rick]

I suspect that the Xbox will be teh place for good exclusives this gen.

Not if they can't sell the damn thing. Publishers start acting funny when a system doesn't sell. Ask Nintendo about the WiiU, and GameCube. Ask Sony about American games for the PSP, and Vita. Ask Sega about the Saturn.

[Olympus]

Olympus: "Why would he apologize on behalf of his company for making the console the way they made it? That does make any sense..."

*click*

"Oh."

Got me.

[Hero!]

http://hugelolcdn.com/i700/141551.jpg

Blahahahgha

[The Rick]

from kotaku (http://kotaku.com/next-gen-consoles-as-game-of-thrones-characters-513889696)

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18r4wkirg69zypng/ku-xlarge.png



http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18r5f6jodw85npng/ku-medium.png

[The Rick]

gamespot link (http://www.gamespot.com/news/navy-publication-blasts-xbox-one-6410382)
By Eddie Makuch June 18, 2013 10:28AM PDT





Navy publication blasts Xbox One
New report from independent military magazine Navy Times takes issue with connectivity and region-lock policies.

Independent military magazine Navy Times has published a new report blasting the Xbox One and its various policies that the publication describes as problematic for those on active duty.

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2013/167/XboxOne12_83543_embed.jpg

The Xbox One will require users to connect to the Internet once every 24 hours, something Navy Lt. Scott Metcalf believes will be a "showstopper" for those serving downrange, in the field, or at sea.

A past report claimed Microsoft was working on a solution for those in Internet-free scenarios, though the company now says no such plan is in place.

In addition, the Xbox One will be supported in only 21 countries. Those stationed in major military regions like Germany, Italy, or Great Britain will not have a problem. However, service members in Japan, Kuwait, Afghanistan, or other areas are in a bind.

On top of this, since Xbox One games are region-locked, service members who import games won't be able to play them on their local machines. And as Navy Times points out, those who buy games locally will be out of luck, as Xbox Live accounts are tied to regions.

The publication also calls out potential "serious" security concerns for the Xbox One, involving the system's Kinect camera and/or microphone recording conversations not meant to be heard outside of the military. Microsoft has said that the Xbox One does not record idle living room chatter.

"Microsoft has single-handedly alienated the entire military," naval aviator Jay Johnson wrote in a Gamasutra piece. "And not just the U.S. military--the militaries of the entire world."

Johnson added that the Xbox One's Internet requirement is "the single greatest sin Microsoft has committed against all service members."

Xbox executive Don Mattrick last week offered an alternative for those without an Internet connection, such as military members and students.

"Fortunately, we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity; it's called Xbox 360," Mattrick said. "If you have zero access to the Internet, that is an offline device."

[mr sabu]

from 360achievements.org


Microsoft Explains Decision to Make Killer Instinct Free-to-Play




Microsoft Game Studios has explained the decision to make Xbox One’s Killer Instinct reboot free-to-play. According to the publisher, the move was made in reaction to the way many fans play fighting games. Those that download the game for free will only be able to play as the character Jago, while all the other characters will be sold as premium content. “Most fighting games that come out are disc based games where you get a huge cast of awesome characters, but it is a massive cast,” Microsoft producer Torin Rettig told Polygon (http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/11/4420388/killer-instinct-to-be-a-free-xbox-one-launch-title-comes-with-one). “Some games have anywhere between 30, 40, even 50 characters. And in reality, most players don’t play that many characters. “You just only have so much time to get good at so many characters. So we wanted to take that into consideration and release the game in a way that took that into consideration and allowed players to get in and play the game at the level that they want to play it.” A Season Pass will allow players access to all of the game’s other characters. However, no pricing for either the Season Pass or individual characters has yet been revealed.

[Bill Casey]

I suspect that the Xbox will be the place for good exclusives this gen.
Their titles will be so exclusive in fact that you won't even be able to play them once they decide to stop supporting the X-Box One and your X-Box has nothing to connect to...
Ten years from now, I will be able to go back and play an Atari game, an NES game, and a PS1 game, but not an X-Box One game...


It's a good thing older games are never ever ever worth playing ever...

[Beefy]

Their titles will be so exclusive in fact that you won't even be able to play them once they decide to stop supporting the X-Box One and your X-Box has nothing to connect to...
Ten years from now, I will be able to go back and play an Atari game, an NES game, and a PS1 game, but not an X-Box One game...


It's a good thing older games are never ever ever worth playing ever...

I'm pretty sure that this won't actually happen though.

The problem you'll more likely have with getting your XBox One games (or PS4 games) to work in ten years time will be that your XBox One will have died several years earlier due to the numbers of corners cut in order to get the price down.

[The Rogerer]

:panic: Reports of a Microsoft U-TURN

Discs are discs again - they are the game

No 24 hour checkins

No region locking

:panic:

[Vice]

Where's the punchline?

[The Rogerer]

Don Mattrick's face

[Excel]

It's true, check it out http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

[Excel]

This happened much sooner than expected

[Peter Griffin]

Haha is that the same prick that suggested people stuck with the 360 if they weren't happy with it? They have made themselves look like utter cunts all round, and despite this they can still go and fuck themselves as far as I am concerned.

[Bill Casey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3suGfhnT2Sg

[JP]

Hey, they listened.

Still, lol.

[Pablo Diablo]

Well shit. Now I actually have to think again. Although I am still leaning towards PS4. End of the day this is the right decision for everyone.

[Olympus]

Wow... Xbox 180.

Still probably won't get one at launch.

[Hero!]

Lol, Microsoft. "OK, we're already flip-flopping on what's required to use our system and games. But, seriously, trust us. We will 'NOT' fuck you over in any way by changing our minds again later. Just trust us, give us your money, and don't worry about a thing ;)"

[VHS]

PS4 still $100 cheaper.

[Bill Casey]

But, seriously, trust us. We will 'NOT' fuck you over in any way by changing our minds again later. Just trust us, give us your money, and don't worry about a thing ;)
You can say that about any company...
If they could get away with it, they'd all do it in a heartbeat...
Corporations are not your friends...

[VanillaJello]

Wonder if the pre-orders got so bad that they had to reverse course.

[The Rick]

Wonder if the pre-orders got so bad that they had to reverse course.

Gamestop was full up even before the back down(brick and mortar stores). But with such a media backlash, not surprising to see this. When branches of the military where your business has its headquarters at start spurning you, its time to evaluate.

[VHS]

Geez.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbAefjzovJg

[The Rick]

Well shit. Now I actually have to think again. Although I am still leaning towards PS4. End of the day this is the right decision for everyone.

I thought there was a great chance that the Rajahites would unite under the PS4. What a gamr of fifa that would be. I would get the game for sure if that happened.

[The_Mike]

That's hilarious.

The worst part is it only makes Microsoft look worse. They basically plead guilty to being greedy thieving bastards trying to usurp consumers' property rights, destroy the rental industry and treat everyone buying their products like a convict. Do they expect forgiveness now?

[Cubed-Sphere]

Mike's sentiments seem to be the broad reaction to all of this; and my own. This just makes Microsoft look shady and many (going off of thousands of comments on IGN and N4G) are just questioning when Microsoft will flip-flop again.

Basically, I think those that already pre-ordered the XB1 will sigh with relief at this news, but this won't pull too many on the fence over to MS' side.

[The_Mike]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7572653824/h475E4AEC/

I know, it's a a silly meme, and MS changed their mind in the end, but this attitude of theirs simply makes my skin crawl. How could they have thought this was acceptable at any point?

[mr sabu]

Geez.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbAefjzovJg



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqgz6W1518Q

[Jez]

I think this complete reversal of policies is fascinating on so many levels. Have consumers ever managed to make a company change this much in such a short period of time? It is certainly a win for consumers and makes things much more interesting but Microsoft have effectively given into peer pressure and abandoned their vision of the future.

Should Microsoft be seen as heroes for listening to consumer feedback and responding in such a major way or should they be seen as villains whose plans have been foiled by the fanbase? They have burnt a lot of bridges and lost a lot of trust over the last few months but this decision has shown that they are not as arrogant as I and many others thought. I am now open to buying an XB1 at some point in the future (but not for £430) which I wasn't before. I mostly applaud them for their bravery in changing their policies because it has resulted in a loss of credibility but has resulted in a return of good faith towards Xbox.

[OD50]

That's hilarious.

The worst part is it only makes Microsoft look worse. They basically plead guilty to being greedy thieving bastards trying to usurp consumers' property rights, destroy the rental industry and treat everyone buying their products like a convict. Do they expect forgiveness now?

:lol: :yes:

Little too late there Microsoft, just fuck off. Not getting me one of them boxes.

[The Rick]

Now Microsoft need to push the fact that people would have to make new friends. Their ecosystems wouldn't be the same with a switch to PS4. People are lazy. And Microsoft need to play towards that

[The Rogerer]

If the right friend makes the switch to PS4, others will follow. It's a dangerous game. This is where backwards compatibility would have worked in MS's favour.

[Bad Collin]

Now Microsoft need to push the fact that people would have to make new friends. Their ecosystems wouldn't be the same with a switch to PS4. People are lazy. And Microsoft need to play towards that

Don't underestimate the value of the achievements system. People have spent hours amassing a gamer score and will want to take that with them for the new gen.

This puts Xbox back in contention for my £500, if they did a non-kinect version then it woud be a toss up for me.

[Hlebsfall]

Shame that they reversed their decision, was looking forward to seeing them fall on their face. Also a shame that people are now back contemplating it as a viable option, despite up to about 24 hours ago, Microsoft were prepared to put it in dry and fuck you every which way.

[VHS]

As much as I dislike Microsoft for their atrocious business decisions, the last thing I want to see is them fall flat on their faces. They became highly prestigious for a reason, and it would be a shame for a company with such valuable resources and workforce to take a heavy blow to the head if they didn't reverse their policies.

[Cewsh]

Is it really possible for them to do such a 180 on this? Surely the hardware is already designed and set up to block used content and require internet as they said.

[Vice]

Surely the hardware is already designed and set up to block used content and require internet as they said.
lol

[The_Mike]

As much as I dislike Microsoft for their atrocious business decisions, the last thing I want to see is them fall flat on their faces. They became highly prestigious for a reason, and it would be a shame for a company with such valuable resources and workforce to take a heavy blow to the head if they didn't reverse their policies.

When was Microsoft ever highly prestigious? They have been vilified since they stole Xerox's idea for the WIMP interface.


Is it really possible for them to do such a 180 on this? Surely the hardware is already designed and set up to block used content and require internet as they said.

I imagine it's just a case of switching a few flags in the code for the console's OS, kind of like how you can get rid of region-encoded restrictions by not having the device bother to check for the code.

[The Rick]

Is it really possible for them to do such a 180 on this? Surely the hardware is already designed and set up to block used content and require internet as they said.

Funny you should mention that


kotaku link (http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-drm-reversal-cuts-features-requires-one-time-514419715)
STEPHEN TOTILO Yesterday 5:22pm



WIN SOME, LOSE SOME
Xbox One DRM Reversal Cuts Features, Requires One-Time Connection

You win some, you lose some. In changing its drastic Xbox One DRM policies today, Microsoft will actually be cutting some of the cooler features announced from the console. Everything's got a price, folks.

"There’s a few things we won’t be able to deliver as a result of this change," Marc Whitten, v.p. of Xbox Live told Kotaku, "One of the things we were very exicted about was 'wherever we go my games are always with me.' Now, of course, your physical games won’t show up that way. The content you bought digitally will. But you’ll have to bring your discs with you to have your games with you. Similarly, the sharing library [is something] we won’t be able to deliver at launch."

That means that two features are being cut, at least for now, from Microsoft's Xbox One plans. Microsoft's concept of having your full game library travel with you is gone.

Microsoft's offer to let you share Xbox One games with up to nine other "family" members is gone, too.

The play-your-games-from-anywhere feature had been tied to the idea that all Xbox One games must be installed to the system's 500GB harddrive in order to run. In theory, if you had registered the game online—a requirement that's also been dropped for disc games for the Xbox One—you'd then be able to play those games from any other console you were logged into. Now, with disc games not needing to be registered, you'd have to bring the disc with you to prove you had the rights to play the game on it.

Those sacrifices are the cost of the new DRM policy that, Whitten says, will give people an Xbox One experience with disc-based games that matches what they had on the Xbox 360. Games won't have to be registered online, and players won't have to connect to the Internet in a 24-hour period to play offline disc-based games. "The way to think about it is that it works the way it does with the Xbox 360," Whitten said. "You can give them, loan them, trade them, play them. They will work exactly as they do today."

It's clear that Microsoft was not planning to make these changes. Even though it's June and the console doesn't launch until November, Whitten said that Xbox One consumers will have to download a day-one patch to enable the Xbox One's offline mode. Presumably, without it, the console will still think it's living in the Xbox One era of E3 2013.

UPDATE: Microsoft clarifies that the planned day-one Xbox One update, which Whitten told me, will "complete some of the software that won’t be there," is actually not a result of today's DRM policy change. Rather, it was always planned and will simply be required for playing off-line, among other things. Not a patch, they say. But, yes, your new Xbox console would have to connect online once in order to do the things Microsoft described today. And then you can keep it offline and play games without re-connecting to the Internet forever.

Microsoft also announced today a loosening of the Xbox One's regional restrictions. "You could buy a console in any country and use it any country," Whitten said. "You can use any disc in that console."

How did Microsoft get their initial plans for the Xbox One so wrong? "We believe a lot in this digital future," Whitten said. "We believe it builds an amazing experience—the ability to have a broader sharing platform and my content coming with me, [but] what we heard is people still wanted more choice… they wanted the familiarity of the physical disc."

Microsoft is obviously doing a big flip-flop here, but is putting a proud face on it. And a grateful one. "The last thing I would say is, 'Thank you for the feedback.'" He wasn't addressing me. He was addressing you. Your voices really were heard.

NOTE: The original headline for this story "Surprise Xbox One DRM Reversal Requires Day One Patch, Cuts Features" was changed to clarify that the console's day-one update was not a result of today's DRM policy change.

[The Rick]

So the Xbox "Family Sharing" program that Microsoft talked about... Trashed. Because you don't like DRM, and you don't like the thought of losing your games because of lack of internet. And they where getting raked over the coals. Pffff weaklings.

[Bad Collin]

As others have said, this is primarily a PR issue. All public companies exist to bleed money from consumers and repay shareholders, that is the nature of modern capitalism. If Sony thought that they could make more money with DRM then they would have tried this too.

Surely with more media being delivered digitally and severe measures being taken against piracy Microsoft should have been able to guarantee that their games would be cheaper. Perhaps if they had launched this console saying that the games will be cheaper, you can play your games from any console and you can share games with friend and family then it would have got a better reaction.

Microsoft's PR guys need to be fired because all that has come across is arrogance.

[The Rick]

I listened to a couple of podcasts through the day, and there is a rumor floating out during one that Gamestop started having Xbox One preorders canceled after the PS4 press conference. No hard facts, only the chatter of the gaming journalists in my head.

[lotjx]

I am still staying away. They say these things will be gone, but I don't believe it will. Your average gamer will have no idea if they did make the changes. Regardless, a $100 less and not knowing what exactly is going with my console is the real selling point for PS4. I do believe the pre-orders being canceled to some degree mainly for the price rather than the controversy.

[Olympus]

So the Xbox "Family Sharing" program that Microsoft talked about... Trashed. Because you don't like DRM, and you don't like the thought of losing your games because of lack of internet. And they where getting raked over the coals. Pffff weaklings.

I didn't really understand the "family sharing" program to begin with. Since my family lives with me and has the same access to consoles that I do, isn't every console I own a "family sharing" console?

[Morrison]

I didn't really understand the "family sharing" program to begin with. Since my family lives with me and has the same access to consoles that I do, isn't every console I own a "family sharing" console?

in the simplest terms, yes. but if you only have one gamertag, then your other family members won't be able to play through the game and unlock achievements and/or improve upon a gamerscore, have their own high scores or records, etc. so essentially they were saying 'hey, we're not going to lock your games between gamertags held within the same family, aren't we wonderful.' or at least that's as much as i gathered.

[The Rick]

It was Microsoft's way of conditioning players on the per user limits that Microsoft sets on its software like office. When you purchase office, you have a maximum number of users for that piece of software. Microsoft makes.money hand over.fist with this business.model. Whether it be with businesses, or government institutions. So if they can start families with "sharing", they won't be too outraged if and when they drop the number of users by one or two. It's all part of making the xbox brand as profitable as the rest of the company.

Now one feature.of the "sharing" would be the ability to use the cloud amongst multiple consoles. Say you have three consoles in the house. You would only need to buy the one game, and all users under the "family" could use said software. Microsoft never really got into whether you had to put the disc in each console, but it is all moot at this point.

[Bill Casey]

Should Microsoft be seen as heroes for listening to consumer feedback and responding in such a major way or should they be seen as villains whose plans have been foiled by the fanbase?
Neither...
They should be seen as incompetent for trying to implement these policies in what is no doubt a hair-brained attempt to fight piracy at the customer's expense, and they should be seen as responsive for doing away with these policies under pressure...

Contrary to some opinions, I would have respected them a lot less if they ignored the backlash...
Incompetent and unresponsive is infinitely worse...

[The_Mike]

I find it hard to respect them at all because they should have seen the backlash coming. They can't be that stupid. They just hoped they'd get away with it. Microsoft does this a lot, even with simple things like the Start Menu in Windows 8, which is coming back after telling us how great it was to get rid of it for eighteen months.

[Cewsh]

I listened to a couple of podcasts through the day, and there is a rumor floating out during one that Gamestop started having Xbox One preorders canceled after the PS4 press conference. No hard facts, only the chatter of the gaming journalists in my head.

I went to trade my Xbox 360 in for a PS3 over the weekend, and the Gamestop employee informed me that he had had 13 Xbox trade ins that day and about 20 PS4 preorders.

[Vice]

I don't understand the logic of trading in a 360 for a PS3 at this current time. Everyone seems to be doing it.

[Cewsh]

I don't understand the logic of trading in a 360 for a PS3 at this current time. Everyone seems to be doing it.

I have no idea why it's such a big thing, aside from general hostility towards Microsoft. I just did it because I never play the 360 and I like the PS3's setup and games better at this point. Plus, PS3 seems like it's going to have more going on after the next generation launch if I want to hold off on the new system for a bit.

Honestly, aside from playing with you guys, I don't see any reason to still have a 360.

[Vice]

You have officially abandoned us. :(

[Cewsh]

There aren't any games to play! Come play Destiny with me!

[Beefy]

If you are getting a PS3 at this point then get PS+ straight away

[Beefy]

Then buy Journey

[Cewsh]

Already there on both. :yes:

[Beefy]

Good man

[lotjx]

I find it hard to respect them at all because they should have seen the backlash coming. They can't be that stupid. They just hoped they'd get away with it. Microsoft does this a lot, even with simple things like the Start Menu in Windows 8, which is coming back after telling us how great it was to get rid of it for eighteen months.

Don't even get me started on Windows 8 start menu. That fucking thing is possessed by Satan.

[blackening]

So Microsoft has now come out and said that the Kinect will not be required.

Xbox One owners will be able to use all of the console's core functions regardless of whether the new Kinect sensor is connected. Naturally, many of the tentpole features of the new Kinect, such as player identification, voice commands, etc., will be disabled as a result, but players will still be able to play games and access entertainment content.

So you can add that to the list of changes to the X-Box One since it was announced.

There is no requirement to be always connected to the internet.
You can borrow games to friends just as you've always done.
You can play pre-owned games just as you've always done.
There is no region locking.
It comes with a headset.
Does not require the Kinect.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/08/13/xbox-one-then-and-now?abthid=520a2793126d69137f000005

[The_Mike]

So their insistence that it just had to be connected for the console to work was, as usual, a complete and utter lie. I'm more annoyed about that than the stupid policies themselves.

[The Rogerer]

I wonder if the Futurists will start saying that the idiot masses have ruined everything with this kinect thing. If they really thought the always on digital future would lead to a Steam sale equivalent, they are deficient.

[RuneEdge]

This just begs the question "Why am I still being asked to pay an extra £100 over the PS4, and being flogged a camera I dont need?"

[blackening]

Exactly. If its not required why not sell a version without the Kinect at a cheaper price?

[The Rick]

Exactly. If its not required why not sell a version without the Kinect at a cheaper price?

That announcement is being saved for next week? :dunno: