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Hero!
May 15th, 2013, 8:28 PM
Hello all. While discussing wrestling with some casual fan friends of mine today, it struck me just how differently 'marks' & 'smart'/'smarks' perceive the WWE's product and wrestling as a whole. Now, for some background: I'm 22 and have been watching wrestling since I was 8 years old. I've been on Rajah for some 7 years now, but started to educate myself and "smarten" up on wrestling a year or two beforehand. I have a group of about 7 people that I watch PPVs with in addition to a couple of other casual fans that I speak to on a regular basis.

The point of this thread is just to share things you hear your casual or 'mark' friends say about the current product that kind of just blow your mind and maybe help us see the product in a different way than we usually do here on forums.rajah.com.

Earlier today some friends of mine and I were discussing The Shield. Now, the IWC seems to love them, but according to my friends:

- They're too green and clearly not ready for the role they've been given
- Roman Reigns is a one trick pony with that crappy spear of his
- Seth Rollins is clearly new to wrestling, the guy doesn't know what to do in the ring
- Dean Ambrose looks and moves like a spastic. He really needs to go back to developmental.

On the topic of the current main event scene:
- Dolph Ziggler is really boring
- John Cena & Ryback is the only good feud in the WWE right now
- Brock Lesnar is the only thing that gives wrestling credibility
- Sin Cara should be in the main event as he's the only really well trained wrestler. Unlike the rest of the roster, Cara spent years learning in Mexico and becoming the best at his craft.
- The Miz should be main eventing more, since he's an actual star.
- The loss of Edge has really hurt the product.

Those are just the things I remember. I imagine i'll hear more of these views on Sunday as we watch Extreme Rules, but feel free to share your own experiences of discussing wrestling with casual fans.

Beer-Belly
May 15th, 2013, 8:39 PM
I went to a house show with a friend recently and he fell back in love with it. Dolph Ziggler is his current favorite by far. He was PISSED about the concussion taking Dolph out of action.

Cewsh
May 15th, 2013, 8:42 PM
It's actually quite striking how many of those opinions I share with them.

Kimura Kid
May 15th, 2013, 8:51 PM
Agreed The only ones I cannot really understand or agree with is Sin Cara being the only well trained wrestler & Dolph Ziggler being boring.

But I may be more of a Mark than a Smark....Not even sure what the difference is. But Marks seem to be the more naive of the 2, At least thats what I gathered from this thread.

Cewsh
May 15th, 2013, 8:59 PM
Well Sin Cara is the biggest international star they've had since Andre the Giant. He's incredibly well versed in LUCHA LIBRE. WWE style has given him some trouble, but he's been making steady progress.

The Law
May 15th, 2013, 9:04 PM
-I don't consider Ziggler boring, but I don't like him nearly as much as most people on here and wasn't happy to see him get the title from Del Rio. He's a solid worker, but still not much of a talker, character is nothing beyond "show-off," and it's taken every trick they can think of to get him over.

- I don't like the Cena/Ryback feud at all, but I'm not a huge fan of any of the feuds going right now. Sheamus/Henry is probably the most entertaining of the bunch, as Mark whipping Sheamus was one of my favorite segments in a long time. Actually, I was really digging the three way Ziggler/Del Rio/Swagger feud, but it was most for the work that Big E, Zeb, and Ricardo were doing.

- I don't really know what they mean by "credibility," but Lesnar is absolutely the biggest star that WWE has on their roster right now and their biggest draw. His appearances at Extreme Rules and Summerslam last year increased buyrates by 25% over the shows from the previous year.

- Sin Cara isn't ready for the main event, but I'm not ready to give up on the guy. He needs a sustained push when he gets back and a torch passing match with Mysterio. The guy can work, he's just had a ridiculous string of bad luck and self-inflicted wounds so far.

- Don't agree on The Miz, although he does have more personality than most members of the roster. If he were to turn heel I would be fine with him holding an upper-midcard position, but I'm not into him as a face. I just don't want to cheer for the guy.

- I'm surprised by how much I miss Edge. I was never the biggest fan of the guy, but he could work with anyone, made terrible storylines watchable, put everyone he worked with over, and could work both face and heel well. He generally had the most heat of anyone on the roster other than Cena during his main event run.

Kimura Kid
May 15th, 2013, 9:05 PM
Re Read op and there's actually a bunch of shit in there I don't agree with.

VHS
May 15th, 2013, 9:11 PM
Wonderful topic, Hero! :yes:



- They're too green and clearly not ready for the role they've been given
- Roman Reigns is a one trick pony with that crappy spear of his
- Seth Rollins is clearly new to wrestling, the guy doesn't know what to do in the ring
- Dean Ambrose looks and moves like a spastic. He really needs to go back to developmental.

On the topic of the current main event scene:
- Dolph Ziggler is really boring
- John Cena & Ryback is the only good feud in the WWE right now
- Brock Lesnar is the only thing that gives wrestling credibility
- Sin Cara should be in the main event as he's the only really well trained wrestler. Unlike the rest of the roster, Cara spent years learning in Mexico and becoming the best at his craft.
- The Miz should be main eventing more, since he's an actual star.
- The loss of Edge has really hurt the product.



I'm astonished, but at the same time not surprised how much I disagree with these, those being the red ones of course. I guess this is why I've spent the past 10 years watching wrestling by myself. I don't remember the last time I've sat in a room with other people while watching Raw because of the difference in opinion, whether it be "wrestling is so stupid" or "Lol, John Cena is so funny."

maxxmisery
May 16th, 2013, 12:18 AM
Couple friends of mine are casual watchers that watch it with me once every few weeks or so, and both of them agree that Randy Orton is being wasted and should be the biggest star of all time.

Also, during the Cena/Punk/Rock drama, they both had no interest in Punk at all and consider him overrated as hell, and agree that he doesn't have what it takes to be a star.

Intersting indeed to see the casual point of view. I should also note that both of these people absolutely adored wrestling during the attitude era, if that means anything at all.

Mills
May 16th, 2013, 12:20 AM
My kids watch on and off and they agree with the Orton love too

MMH
May 16th, 2013, 3:14 AM
Orton is over because he always wins and his a cool finisher I reckon.

Zacharie
May 16th, 2013, 3:37 AM
My wife is a mark and likes Big Show, Kofi, and Orton. She talks shit about everyone else on the roster though, even referring to Ryback as "the fat guy." Oh yeah, she went crazy for The Rock stuff too. Probably the only time she really paid attention to the show.

Rip
May 16th, 2013, 4:27 AM
I ran those past my boys, who (7 & 6) out of interest...

On the Shield there's no debate, they love them, Bens favourite is Rollins, he love his entrance and his general style, James love Ambrose, everything about him, but if pushed he does admit he should be a bit bigger.

On the topic of the current main event scene:

- Dolph Ziggler is really boring - Nope, they love Ziggler, he's probably Bens second favourite wrestler in WWE right now and James thinks he's cool, he'd be allowed to sign 'the shirt'.
- John Cena & Ryback is the only good feud in the WWE right now - Well they are quite looking forward to the match but both agree Ryback should have stayed face
- Brock Lesnar is the only thing that gives wrestling credibility - James likes him, but isn't interested in what he's done outside wrestling because 'it doesn't really matter' Ben isn't a fan because he 'just looks silly'.
- Sin Cara should be in the main event as he's the only really well trained wrestler. Unlike the rest of the roster, Cara spent years learning in Mexico and becoming the best at his craft. Both lads love Sin Cara, James has a mask, Ben has Hunicos Black version, James isn't sure he's ready yet because he looks sloppy sometimes.
- The Miz should be main eventing more, since he's an actual star. They agree, he's very cool and they think he always gives a good match.
- The loss of Edge has really hurt the product.Ben doesn't care, James is a huge Edge fan (he's signed the shirt) and was devastated when he left, he also thinks Christian should be back NOW, preferably feuding with Miz and Sandow over a title.

McBain
May 16th, 2013, 4:44 AM
Your kids don't sound like marks to me...:yes:

OD50
May 16th, 2013, 4:57 AM
Hm, a Sandow/Christian feud over the IC/US title wouldn't be too shabby. OD approves. :yes:

Rip
May 16th, 2013, 5:17 AM
Your kids don't sound like marks to me...:yes:

They're probably somewhere in between.

James is the one who had his picture taken with the WWE belt and refused to let Del Rio sign his shirt a year ago because he wasn't cool enough, he's since changed his opinion and now says when he sees him next he'll let him.

turdpower
May 16th, 2013, 3:17 PM
Random question; the term MARK. Does this have the same connotations that grifters use?

Cewsh
May 16th, 2013, 3:19 PM
Yep. Both come from carny lingo. The wrestling version is less dubious in intent, but it's the same idea.

Simmo Fortyone
May 16th, 2013, 7:35 PM
Couple of my mates watch wrestling on the odd occasion when I am. Bear in mind that they are all about entertainment rather than ability. Their general opinions...

- Mark Henry is a badass motherfucker, but slow as shit.
- Lesnar, Big E, Ryback, Barrett and Big Show are beasts and they love them.
- Dolph, Cody and Jericho aren't any good.
- Sandow, Fandango, Tons of Funk and PTP are a touch over the top, but fun nonetheless.
- Team Hell No are pretty strange.
- Cena is unremarkable for a bloke who is on the screen a lot.
- Sheamus is a massive twat.
- "Why does everyone love this cunt?" (re: Orton)

Andy
May 16th, 2013, 8:16 PM
I had an interesting chat with a guy at Wrestlemania who, like me, has been on and off wrestling for years, but has never been on forums or news sites or anything. About the same age too.

He generally had similar opinions to me, even down to adoring Heath Slater and the PTPs. Thinks Orton is boring as shit, Henry is awesome, Ziggler is awesome.

The only things I generally disagreed with him about was he thought Kane has no place anymore, Laurinitis was boring and Trips should pack it in.

Anaconda Sniper
May 17th, 2013, 1:06 AM
The common things I hear from my friends:

When will Randy turn heel.
They hate Cody and I'm an oddball for liking him.
They all mostly hate CM Punk they say hes too whiny.. but have come around greatly for Daniel Bryan since 2 years ago.
They are 50/50 on Cena..love or hate him.
They all love Rock and HHH.
They are fond of the SHIELD but a couple of them think Ambrose isn't that good.
They all hate Miz...face or heel.

maxxmisery
May 17th, 2013, 1:39 AM
Had a guy at work today tell me that WWE would be better if the matches were more fair and treated as seriously as MMA style matches. He thought that wrestlers interfering in matches should be fined and/or suspended.

This guy is around 35ish years old or so, and still thinks wrestling is completely legit. Dead serious....

Kev
May 17th, 2013, 1:50 AM
My friends that don't talk about wrestling online like I do... have the following opinions:


The Rock is the best
As is CM Punk
Fandango is entertaining
Langston is a beast but they've never seen him before
There's too many new guys they've never heard of that are not interesting at all (Kofi, Ziggler, Swagger, Del Rio, Ryder, Barrett, Sandow, Rhodes) - I tend to argue that they tend to have quite bland storylines, as I feel they're all pretty competent...
Undertaker is too old, but still badass
There are no good tag-teams anymore
John Cena always wins
Ryback is trying way too hard to be like Goldberg
Lesnar is also trying to be like Goldberg, but he was a beast in UFC and therefore better
Natalya has a man-jaw (agreed)
Triple H should keep wrestling (ugh, no)
The Shield are animals and their matches are great, but they don't know enough about them
Daniel Bryan is an incredible wrestler, and hilarious, but that beard has got to go (agreed)

Andy
May 17th, 2013, 5:47 AM
The beard is great.

Ringo
May 17th, 2013, 5:56 AM
Yeah, rubbish opinions there. Of all these marks, Rip's kids probs have the best take.

Cewsh
May 17th, 2013, 9:24 AM
I got my sister in law into wrestling about midway through last year. She had never watched it before and here are some of the opinions she had.

- CM Punk (who was the babyface champion at the time) is funny, but he's dirty and unlikable.
- Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara are the most entertaining thing ever. She's already bought a truckload of their merchandise.
- Sheamus is super attractive and amazing.
- The 3 hour shows are too long to pay attention to all the way through.
- Matches that end in interference or cheating of any kind are bullshit.
- Promos are boring and there should be more matches.
- The Divas Division is so fucked up it makes her want to murder things.
- Wrestling looks easy. She has decided to try to become a professional wrestler now.

Jimmy Zero
May 17th, 2013, 10:02 AM
- Wrestling looks easy. She has decided to try to become a professional wrestler now.

So we should expect to see her in WWE fixing the Divas Division in, oh, six months?

Cewsh
May 17th, 2013, 10:04 AM
That seemed to be her initial impression. She's done more research on it now and was disappointed to learn that it's actually hard.

The Rogerer
May 17th, 2013, 10:05 AM
The wife wanted to start watching because of The Rock coming back and she liked him in films. Since then:

- She started off really liking CM Punk, and then probably got annoyed by his drawn out rants and Heyman. Still likes him and really enjoyed his WM match
- Seems to really fancy Randy Orton although she doesn't think much of his face and thinks he's somewhat boring
- Favourite wrestler is Daniel Bryan, and really enjoys the Hell No Stuff.
- She said she's coming around to Cena, or at least appreciates that he gets a lot of shit and puts up with it.

However

- Absolutely no interest in divas matches, unless they do a mental submission move
- Completely bewildered and bored by this Mark Henry strongman stuff.
- Seems to respect the Shield, but doesn't like their interfering bullshit. Thinks Ambrose is a complete psycho
- Can't stand JBL. Complains about him saying "It's all legal" constantly in any gimmick match.
- Hate's Swaggers 'line in the sand' ring entrance thing
- Finds the app/twitter stuff ridiculous

Cewsh
May 17th, 2013, 10:08 AM
Oh yeah, every casual fan I've ever talked to has HATED JBL as a commentator.

Anaconda Sniper
May 17th, 2013, 12:04 PM
Yep same here with JBL as a commentator. They also hate Cole and Lawler..and wish Jim Ross would come back.

Rip
May 17th, 2013, 12:11 PM
My wife likes JBL, although since she loved the APA when she was younger I think it's residual rather than anything to do with what he's doing now.

Is it even possible to create a good WWE commentary set right now, without cloning Regal of course.

Hotbeef-Injection
May 17th, 2013, 6:30 PM
My missus watches wrestling when she turns over to stare at my laptop when i'm watching Raw or a PPV. Her main opinion is 'goddam there's no actual wrestling it's all just adverts and videos of stuff'. Hard to disagree with that.

Merchant4Ever
May 17th, 2013, 7:47 PM
My friends only get the main PPVs with me (Rumble, Mania, Summerslam)...so they are VERY casual fans.

Here are their consensus opinions:

They do love Ziggler, but to be fair, we all knew him in college so they are biased
Used to hate Punk 3 years ago, now they love him...
All think Cena is boring because he wins too much
Loved the Rock's return
Really enjoy HHH
Hate the midcard, Sandow, Rhodes, Kofi, Swagger, Del Rio, etc
Think the Miz should still be main-eventing
They don't understand my love for Daniel Bryan, they think it's too unbelievable that he could beat bigger guys
Cesaro is boring (apparently my friends work for WWE creative)
Jericho is cool
They LOVE watching Lesnar matches
The dancing acts are funny (Brodus, Fandango)
They don't get why I love the Shield
All of them think Orton should be on Cena's level

Melly
May 18th, 2013, 4:12 PM
I used to watch wrestling when I was younger (like 8 years old, loved Shawn Michaels and still do). I watched it every now and then and now I watch Raw weekly and PPV's. I have to credit mth (my husband) for getting me hooked again.

Since I am pretty new to the whole thing I thought I'd give my two cents...

- 3 hr Raw is really long, it should be cut down to 2 hrs again
- Ryback is getting better all the time, I enjoy hearing him talk - except the heavy breathing needs to be toned down. I love him wearing the toque.
- Mark Henry is fantastic. "That's what I do!"
- Jack Swagger's current gimmick isn't enjoyable. I loved him before, miss those push ups during his entrance.
- Same with Alberto Del Rio. Loved him as a bad guy, not a fan of him now - boring. Ricardo is still fun.
- Randy Orton has a really nice body, but is boring to watch and listen to.
- Team Hell No has been fun, but it needs to end soon.
- Shield is great, Rollins is a bit goofy though.
- CM Punk is amazing. The show is not the same without him.
- Favorites: Jericho, Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Mark Henry, A.J., Brock, Heymen, Cena, Fandango, Shield, Ziggler, Big E, Shawn Michaels (probably missing some.)
- JBL is great on commentary, Michael Cole is annoying, Jerry can be funny at times
- Sheamus: boring, annoying, a jerk. He is probably the one I dislike the most out of all of them (except Christian, but he's not there right now)
- Triple H 's short hair looks 10x better then his long hair. He can be good to watch. Look forward to Brock and his match.
- Rhodes/Sandow are great together


I probably missed a few things, but that's the main points.

Judas Iscariot
May 18th, 2013, 4:15 PM
Melly, how do you even DEAL with that beard of his?

It's like you're married to two people, because that thing is a force to be reckoned with.

Judas Iscariot
May 18th, 2013, 4:18 PM
My little cousin is 13. She LOVES Big Show and LOVES Undertaker.

My sister's boyfriend is a smark along with me and talking to her during family functions is fun, as we're both called white trash children by the rest of the family.

Melly
May 18th, 2013, 9:02 PM
I forgot about Undertaker. He's one of the best ever.

Judas: The beard is pretty awesome. :yes: Not sure if I'd like it to get as crazy as Daniel Bryan's though.

Ol' Double Hard
May 18th, 2013, 10:29 PM
Some things I get a good chuckle about.

- Goldberg is the best ever

- No one should ever beat Undertaker at WM

- Dolph Ziggler is not World Championship material

Hero!
June 4th, 2013, 4:48 PM
Got some interesting stuff out of a friend today:

- He's glad Daniel Bryan is finally getting a push after being buried for the last year (I don't think he know what buried means, but I digress...)
- Kane needs to retire immediately. I counter with: "Kane is the only guy from the Attitude Era who can keep up physically with the young guys in the ring". He counters my counter with "Yeah, but he's old and fat and hasn't been interesting since 1999. He needs to go away".
- Big E Lesnar needs to leave so the WWE can give his paycheck to the real Lesnar and have him work more days.
- Curtis Axel is a joke.
- The Usos are pretty good, but did you know that they're the rock's cousins? these guys are gonna be pushed hard because they're family with the rock. (I don't think he realizes the Uso's have been there for years...)
- Chris Jericho, Wade Barrett, and Cesaro are all being buried. Can't say I disagreed with Barrett and Cesaro...

That's all I can remember really. Some stuff that he said I agreed with, but most of it just made me want to real life neg rep him.

Kimura Kid
June 4th, 2013, 4:53 PM
"real life neg rep him"

That's Awesome!

Andy
June 4th, 2013, 5:14 PM
Kane's current run might be my favourite in this century.

Hero!
June 4th, 2013, 6:59 PM
Kane is amazing right now. Promo wise, look wise, and in-ring wise. The dude is on fire.


PUN PUN PUN LOLOLOLOLLLLL

Beer-Belly
June 5th, 2013, 4:00 PM
My friend's interest is waning with Ziggler and Punk being out of action.