PDA

View Full Version : NY Times profiles Dave Meltzer



Defrost
May 15th, 2013, 6:01 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/sports/wrestling-reporter-dave-meltzer-tries-to-keep-it-real.html?smid=tw-nytmedia&seid=auto&_r=1&

Kimura Kid
May 15th, 2013, 6:13 PM
Good read, I've only heard of the guy through MMA.

Cewsh
May 15th, 2013, 6:44 PM
As I said on Twitter, reading this really makes me sad that ACTUAL Dave Meltzer is a gossip mongerer with a superiority complex. Because the IDEA of Dave Meltzer is terrific.

That quote about Meltzer being the foremost journalistic authority in his field always gives me a chuckle, though.

Peter Griffin
May 15th, 2013, 6:46 PM
Dave Meltzer is shit, 0/10

Kimura Kid
May 15th, 2013, 6:46 PM
As I said on Twitter, reading this really makes me sad that ACTUAL Dave Meltzer is a gossip mongerer with a superiority complex. Because the IDEA of Dave Meltzer is terrific.

That quote about Meltzer being the foremost journalistic authority in his field always gives me a chuckle, though.

You don't like the guy? Please elaborate further....If you have time.

Cewsh
May 15th, 2013, 6:53 PM
You don't like the guy? Please elaborate further....If you have time.

Going fully into it would seriously take forever, but the book on Meltzer is that he is extremely knowledgeable and well traveled in the wrestling industry, and in the 80s and 90s he had a direct line to the wrestlers which granted him access and information that nobody else could get. At that time, he was a hacky writer, but he had information nobody else did and was extremely valuable to smart fans. In the post internet age, however, as the major companies shut their doors to him and threatened to prosecute any employee who talked to him, he lost all of his reputable sources, and has now resorted to reporting speculation as fact continually, never answering for when his reports are utterly wrong.

He failed to move with the times when his industry changed, and now he uses his extremely powerful influence with a certain segment of the wrestling fanbase to sell them snake oil. When he can be bothered to discuss wrestling at all himself.

In other words, the Dave Meltzer of the 80s was a guy who worked hard to build an empire of knowledge, like, say, Sports Illustrated. The Dave Meltzer of the 90s used his connections to get the juiciest dirt on people and ran that, like, say, People Magazine. The Dave Meltzer of the 00s and 10s makes shit up until he pounces on an actual story, which he then pimps mercilessly, like, say, the National Enquirer.

The problem isn't that he's a rumor peddling hack. There are a million of those. The problem is that people take his word seriously because of what he was in the 80s and 90s. And he hasn't deserved it for a long time.

Kimura Kid
May 15th, 2013, 7:11 PM
Damn....Thanks man. That was extremely helpful.

JRSlim21
May 15th, 2013, 9:17 PM
Tell em how you really feel....


It's a nice profile on one of wrestling's most notable journalists, and probably the only one that a top commodity in journalism is gonna put a face to a name anytime soon.

MichaelC
May 16th, 2013, 9:25 AM
Going fully into it would seriously take forever, but the book on Meltzer is that he is extremely knowledgeable and well traveled in the wrestling industry, and in the 80s and 90s he had a direct line to the wrestlers which granted him access and information that nobody else could get. At that time, he was a hacky writer, but he had information nobody else did and was extremely valuable to smart fans. In the post internet age, however, as the major companies shut their doors to him and threatened to prosecute any employee who talked to him, he lost all of his reputable sources, and has now resorted to reporting speculation as fact continually, never answering for when his reports are utterly wrong.

He failed to move with the times when his industry changed, and now he uses his extremely powerful influence with a certain segment of the wrestling fanbase to sell them snake oil. When he can be bothered to discuss wrestling at all himself.

In other words, the Dave Meltzer of the 80s was a guy who worked hard to build an empire of knowledge, like, say, Sports Illustrated. The Dave Meltzer of the 90s used his connections to get the juiciest dirt on people and ran that, like, say, People Magazine. The Dave Meltzer of the 00s and 10s makes shit up until he pounces on an actual story, which he then pimps mercilessly, like, say, the National Enquirer.

The problem isn't that he's a rumor peddling hack. There are a million of those. The problem is that people take his word seriously because of what he was in the 80s and 90s. And he hasn't deserved it for a long time.

Don't forget the mass gaps in his knowledge (and his penchant for looking down on things he didn't understand, see the British wrestling thing for years) and his documented inability to admit he was wrong when all the facts move against him, Cewshter.

He's as trustworthy as FOX news.

Slare
May 16th, 2013, 9:44 AM
I love big Dave :( he's got his flaws but I think those who know him well enough (or his work well enough) can see where those are. He lives in a bubble and knows very little of what's going on in the world outwith wrestling. His cultural referencing is horrible at times, and yes when a story is completely wrong he will generally just reply with a 'plans change'.

But taking away his accomplishments and calling him anything but the greatest wrestling journalist of all time is absolutely mental. The internet has dissapated a lot of his importance sure, but you've still got wrestlers who live and die by his match ratings and 'fight over the observer' as Hart said.

I think he recognises that his pull in wrestling is diminishing slightly which is why he's really involved in MMA right now, but at the same time, there's nothing better as a huge wrestling fan than just listening to Dave shoot the shit on podcasts, telling stories from way back when or interviewing other guys. Saying he has 'big gaps in knowledge' is absolutely mental. Give the guy a break. He has probably forgotten more about wrestling than anyone on this site will ever know.

BIG DAVE 4 LIFE

Slare
May 16th, 2013, 9:50 AM
Cewsh you're the second best wrestling journalist of all time though so its ok.

Cewsh
May 16th, 2013, 10:52 AM
Works for me.

The man is indisputably the greatest wrestling journalist of all time. The thing about him that disappoints me is how little he has done with it. He memorably has his incredible coverage of the Montreal Screwjob to his credit, but where's the investigative reporting? Where are the attempts to penetrate the business and expose rotten promoters and major scandals? Where's the JOURNALISM?

He has spent far too much of his career content to be a reporter when he has the access and influence to be a journalist. I have trouble respecting that.

Slare
May 16th, 2013, 12:53 PM
The thing is though, as soon as he does some of those things, he's going to alienate a portion of people and in turn find himself with less sources or fewer friendly faces to help him with his reporting.

He's never 'protected' anyone per se, and he never shys away from reporting anything. In my 10 or so years subscribing to the observer I've seen him exposing plenty of bent promoters and the like, but his niche is to report the news in wrestling and MMA. He spends upwards of 100 hours a week doing it, producing upwards of 30,000 words, 15 hours of audio and whatever else you want on top of that. His job isn't to go creeping into the seedy underworlds of wrestling and write editorials about the business.

He is, if you will, the encyclopedia of wrestling. He is the guy who is putting together the material that, down the line, we will be using as historical sources in wrestling. He doesn't write opinion pieces (much) or colour pieces, he tells us what's happening and gives us an incredible look behind the curtain in a world where we just wouldn't get it otherwise.

He has his niche, his business model and it been more successful than anybody elses, what more do YOU FUCKING WANT FROM HIM mate?

The Rogerer
May 16th, 2013, 1:00 PM
Slare has nailed it. If you want to be an investigative journalist, you only get let into an organisation once.

Cewsh
May 16th, 2013, 1:18 PM
I don't mean that that's ALL I want him to be. You're right, he's not exactly going to go marching into Titan Towers with a camera crew, and it'd be ridiculous to expect him to. But on the other end of the spectrum, it's impossible to set him up as the encyclopedia of wrestling whose knowledge is unimpeachable and who deserves this endless respect when he is blatantly passing along weak rumors with no research put into them on a weekly basis.

I don't mean to sell Meltzer short on the good sides of him. He's put a ridiculous amount of time and effort into accruing knowledge and spreading it to people who wouldn't other wise know it. How many people is he directly responsible for getting into Lucha, or Puroresu or classic wrestling? He and Pro Wrestling Illustrated have played by far the largest role in turning marks into smarks for decades now. It's a tough job and he has done an extremely good job of it. I badly want to respect the man for his contributions to the wrestling business, but what gets in the way is this whole other side of what he does that is down there with the lowest muckraking tabloid bullshit you would ever see in the Enquirer or the Star or anything else.

He has the most powerful platform of any man in the wrestling industry who is independent of any wrestling promotion. Sometimes he uses that voice to teach. Sometimes he uses that voice to help. But all too often, he uses that voice to make things up and have them accepted without question. And that's purely despicable on a level we wouldn't put up with in any other industry but this one.

Slare
May 16th, 2013, 1:39 PM
What would you rather, no rumours and stories at all coming out, and certainly none of them being broken before anywhere else - or say, 5 broken and only one happens to be true? I think it's the same with all gossip things across every platform of entertainment, like Football transfer rumours or Hollywood dating stuff. Throw shit out and when it happens to be true it's awesome. He's not even close to the worst at that sort of thing - in fact, hes probably does it less than any other wrestling site online. The Torch is bias nonsense most of the time and the rest are silly cut and paste sites on the same level as Super Pena. Dave isn't anywhere near perfect, but he's the best we got.

Cewsh
May 16th, 2013, 1:46 PM
And that's the problem. If Dave Meltzer was just another guy then I would have no real issue with him whatsoever. But he represents the highest form of wrestling journalism, and that makes the entire concept look like garbage.

The Law
May 16th, 2013, 1:48 PM
I agree with Cewsh here. There are so many issues that need to be explored and exposed in the wrestling business: the corruption of promoters deceiving their talent about the companies finances, rampant abuse of PEDs and prescription drugs, head injuries, sexual harassment and abuse of female performers, inequity of wrestler's salaries, labor issues (wrestlers being fired while injured, promoters refusing to pay for wrestler's rehabilitation when they get hurt on the job), wrestlers being designated independent contractors instead of actual employees so promoters can fuck them over on benefits and avoid taxes. That's the stuff that really needs to be exposed, not why Cesaro isn't getting a push.

Slare
May 16th, 2013, 2:26 PM
I agree with Cewsh here. There are so many issues that need to be explored and exposed in the wrestling business: the corruption of promoters deceiving their talent about the companies finances, rampant abuse of PEDs and prescription drugs, head injuries, sexual harassment and abuse of female performers, inequity of wrestler's salaries, labor issues (wrestlers being fired while injured, promoters refusing to pay for wrestler's rehabilitation when they get hurt on the job), wrestlers being designated independent contractors instead of actual employees so promoters can fuck them over on benefits and avoid taxes. That's the stuff that really needs to be exposed, not why Cesaro isn't getting a push.


But he speaks about all of those. At length. Every week. Finances and drug stories are huge huge parts of his newsletter. He talks at length about wrestling rehabillitation programmes and what wrestlers are taking advantage of them and I've seen plenty of discussion labor issues too. His work and exploration into concussions and the history of head injuries and how the understanding of them has changed was actually tremendous. As far as the other stuff is concerned;

Who is going to pay 11 dollars a month to hear Dave go on about unionization and salaries. In fact, who outside of the wrestlers themselves and a small small portion of us online actually care?

He does cover all of these topics in great gret detail, but the fact is that the general mark who wants to be a smark would rather read about Randy Orton shitting in someone's bag or why Tyler Reks is angry at John Cena - so that's what rises to the top on the Copy/Paste sites that cite Meltzer as their main source.

Who actually reads the Observer week to week? It's all there.

Cewsh
May 16th, 2013, 2:42 PM
I understand what you're saying, and he does cover those things more than he's often given credit for. But sweeping the whole "makes up news and mixes it in with the serious stuff" and "peddling gossip about wrestlers that damages reputations and isn't fact checked" as something he has to do to get subscribers isn't doing him any credit.

The point here isn't that he's an awful shithead who never does anything good. The point is that he relentlessly pushes bullshit news through his journalistic medium and doesn't get called on it.

Slare
May 16th, 2013, 2:58 PM
This just might be niave from my part but I genuinely can't think of anything of substance from the past few years that he's reported that has been utter, utter bullshit. Inaccuracies will happen and plans do indeed change all the time in wrestling, but I cant think of any specific example of something that we've turned round and said 'thats just plain wrong and damaging to wrestler x'.

I'm not saying this in a prickish way, but can you think of any? Care to enlight me?

Cewsh
May 16th, 2013, 3:05 PM
Like when he said that the Rock walked out on a Monday Night Raw because he didn't like the direction the storyline was taking, causing the internet to pounce on the Rock for being a sell out and a crybaby? Where the Rock had to go on Twitter and reveal that he was so badly injured that he needed emergency surgery? Like that?

MMH
May 16th, 2013, 4:43 PM
I understand what you're saying, and he does cover those things more than he's often given credit for. But sweeping the whole "makes up news and mixes it in with the serious stuff" and "peddling gossip about wrestlers that damages reputations and isn't fact checked" as something he has to do to get subscribers isn't doing him any credit.

The point here isn't that he's an awful shithead who never does anything good. The point is that he relentlessly pushes bullshit news through his journalistic medium and doesn't get called on it.

He doesnt though really does he? Like any journalist he cant be right 100% of the time. Who are you expecting to call him on it anyway? You are doing that right now (and indeed every chance you get, you aint they only one of course) so obviously he does get pulled on it by people.

Anyway he reports rumours and such, you brought up The Rock stuff, he says allegedly...blah blah blah, when the truth came out who was the first to report the accurate information? I have no doubt it was him. By the whole nature of his business he can only go off what other people tell him. If his source isnt right he rectifies it.

Cewsh
May 16th, 2013, 4:51 PM
Why does he have to report things that people tell him without fact checking them? Am I to believe that he couldn't have contacted the Rock for confirmation before running that story? Again, in what other form of journalism is reporting stories that are blatantly wrong something that just gets shrugged off?

MMH
May 16th, 2013, 5:08 PM
Why does he have to report things that people tell him without fact checking them? Am I to believe that he couldn't have contacted the Rock for confirmation before running that story? Again, in what other form of journalism is reporting stories that are blatantly wrong something that just gets shrugged off?

Who the hell is shrugging them off? You aint shrugging them off, nor do other people so I dont really get where you are coming from there.

There are tons of stories in many different forms of journalism that are wrong. Its depends on the severity of wrongness. If he was to come out and say someone had raped somebody backstage or something then of course there would be an outcry if it wasnt true. The Rock thing nobody really cares enough about it to make an issue of. But you can get away with anything by saying "my sources tell me" etc.

I dont bloody know if he can contact the Rock, i dont know either of them personally! I would assume that the Rock aint as approachable as he would have been back in the day though.

The Law
May 16th, 2013, 5:11 PM
The Rock has a publicist. If a non-wrestling journalist were going to write a story about him, they would contact his people and give him an opportunity to provide a response to what was in the article. A wrestling journalist should do the same thing. Also, a legitimate journalist doesn't run a story unless they can get at least two independent sources. I get the feeling that many wrestling websites settle for one second-hand source.

Badger
May 16th, 2013, 5:17 PM
Maybe Meltzer could get like.....a real job?

Slare
May 17th, 2013, 6:01 PM
CEWSH HES CALLING YOU OUT

http://i.imgur.com/zkJrjzR.jpg

Slare
May 17th, 2013, 6:03 PM
Also it's fairly well known that Rock and Dave are very close and Rock is one of Dave's long-time sources. Dave never explicitly said what the reason for rock being taken off Raw was, he just reported that he wasn't there and there was panic backstage. Dave said he didn't know why. All the shitty cut and paste sites put two and two together and came out with the creative differences things. As soon as Dave spoke to Dwane he reported the truth.

Defrost
May 17th, 2013, 6:08 PM
It is pretty well known which wrestlers talk to Dave. Rock is one. If there is a Rock story in the Observer Rock has talked to Dave about it. Flair is probably the most obvious example of that.

Cewsh
May 17th, 2013, 6:11 PM
Fair enough. I was entirely wrong on that one, and I apologize for making accusations that turned out to be false. Apparently those copy and paste sites, (including ours,) were reporting the part of the story the Meltzer actually reported and adding their own bit on while still attributing it to him. That's some awful, slanderous stuff, and he absolutely shouldn't be held at fault for it.

Seriously. As critical of him as I am, I'm sorry for having put that on the man.

Defrost
May 17th, 2013, 6:13 PM
Fair enough. I was entirely wrong on that one, and I apologize for making accusations that turned out to be false. Apparently those copy and paste sites, (including ours,) were reporting the part of the story the Meltzer actually reported and adding their own bit on while still attributing it to him. That's some awful, slanderous stuff, and he absolutely shouldn't be held at fault for it.

Seriously. As critical of him as I am, I'm sorry for having put that on the man.

Oh fuck man the copy and paste sites always do that. There was a small thing on Batista in the Observer saying he was bulking back up after getting in MMA shape and all the copy and paste sites ran with it that Dave was saying he was getting bigger to go back to WWE

Cewsh
May 17th, 2013, 6:16 PM
Ugh. It's funny because I'm probably more negative of the man than I should be because so much of what he says is tainted by the time it reaches anyone who doesn't pay money for his service. That's a pretty serious issue with making his work inaccessible, but the fault isn't on him.

Fucking wrestling journalism, man.

One Man Gang
May 17th, 2013, 6:34 PM
Didn't Meltzer once say that WWE didn't hire back Bobby Heenan (after WCW) because Vince doesn't like guys who don't stand up to him?

Defrost
May 17th, 2013, 6:39 PM
Never heard that. On that account all I've ever heard from Dave is that Vince treats Lawler the best out of all the announcers because he quit that one time and stood up to him.

The Law
May 17th, 2013, 8:56 PM
Based on the anecdotes I've heard it seems like Vince is the kind of guy who only respects people who stand up to him, because as far as I can tell almost no one does. All the former writers I've heard interviewed all talk about how intimidating Vince is and how hard it is to pitch ideas to him. Also, I remember some particularly amusing news items saying that Vince didn't like John Morrison because Morrison let Melina cheat on him and that caused Vince to lose respect for him. I can definitely see Vince as the "man's man" type. It definitely doesn't seem like Cena suffered at all after he blew up at Vince backstage last year. Punk seems to have maintained his push as well despite being very publicly critical of Vince and the company.

Slare
May 18th, 2013, 5:27 AM
Fair enough. I was entirely wrong on that one, and I apologize for making accusations that turned out to be false. Apparently those copy and paste sites, (including ours,) were reporting the part of the story the Meltzer actually reported and adding their own bit on while still attributing it to him. That's some awful, slanderous stuff, and he absolutely shouldn't be held at fault for it.

Seriously. As critical of him as I am, I'm sorry for having put that on the man.

That's the crux of what Im trying to get at. A lot of people say Dave is garbage and his stories are always false etc. when they're not hits stories. The real garbage out there are the 'journalists' who take little things Dave says and blow them completely out of proportion. This happens constantly. If you read the observer and posted on his board (like Defrost and I do) it's obviously a lot clearer, but then there are plenty of smart guys like you who know what they're talking about that form unfair opinions of him through no fault of your own. sucks.

Cewsh
May 18th, 2013, 1:35 PM
Yep. Bummer.

One Man Gang
May 18th, 2013, 3:10 PM
We should set up a Meltzer truth-o-meter. Keep track of what he says each week this summer.

Slare
May 18th, 2013, 7:17 PM
That's a ruddy good idea. I have a subscription so I could give footnotes of what he's reporting and we can look back at it.

Cewsh
May 18th, 2013, 7:21 PM
Let's do it. :yes:

Tyson
May 19th, 2013, 2:34 AM
A boss giving his top-earners more leeway than the rest of the employees? That's unheard of.

BARRY HORROWTZ
May 21st, 2013, 4:05 AM
Ok, Cewsh.

I have seen you write before I am sure that you get confused whether something is libel or slander. The various posts I have observed you make online recently in regards to Dave Meltzer are verging on libellous.

For some reason you have an unexplained vendetta against Meltzer and seemingly only have the single factoid to grant it any credence at all, and that is the fallacy that Dave reported that Dwayne Johnson stormed out of Raw over a creative difference.

Now that that has been roundly and comprehensively debunked that Meltzer reported this, I challenge you to provide a SINGLE example of dishonest, unresearched or made up reporting tht Dave is responsible for.

The hilarious irony is that what you are accusing Meltzer of is EXACTLY what you are doing yourself in relation to Meltzer.

You come off as petty, insecure and very juvenile over this. Did Dave reject a story from you some years back? Or was there a perceived slight on his part towards you? You come off very bitter an dare I say it.... jealous in regards to
Dave.

So, with all respect Cewsh, again, I ask you to provide just a single example of this untruthful,sensationalist reporting which you are charging Meltzer with.

Thank you.

The Rogerer
May 21st, 2013, 5:10 AM
Fair enough. I was entirely wrong on that one, and I apologize for making accusations that turned out to be false. Apparently those copy and paste sites, (including ours,) were reporting the part of the story the Meltzer actually reported and adding their own bit on while still attributing it to him. That's some awful, slanderous stuff, and he absolutely shouldn't be held at fault for it.

Seriously. As critical of him as I am, I'm sorry for having put that on the man.I hope you realise the sort of shit that we're contributing to here, with this site, TPWW and the other shit engines that have hopped up daydreamers regurgitating other people's news and taking advantage of the 'rumours' aspect to add in a load of shit as long as the site owner gets their penny a click or whatever it is. My participation to the forum is starting to bother me in that regard.

BARRY HORROWTZ
May 21st, 2013, 5:40 AM
I hope you realise the sort of shit that we're contributing to here, with this site, TPWW and the other shit engines that have hopped up daydreamers regurgitating other people's news and taking advantage of the 'rumours' aspect to add in a load of shit as long as the site owner gets their penny a click or whatever it is. My participation to the forum is starting to bother me in that regard.

Has that not been the case for many years though Rogerer?

The Rogerer
May 21st, 2013, 5:56 AM
It's not you, it's me

Slare
May 21st, 2013, 6:42 AM
Barry Horowitz, I'm assuming you saw the chat on the thread on The Board and popped over here to give your two cents. What's your username over there?

Cewsh
May 21st, 2013, 10:48 AM
Ok, Cewsh.

I have seen you write before I am sure that you get confused whether something is libel or slander. The various posts I have observed you make online recently in regards to Dave Meltzer are verging on libellous.

For some reason you have an unexplained vendetta against Meltzer and seemingly only have the single factoid to grant it any credence at all, and that is the fallacy that Dave reported that Dwayne Johnson stormed out of Raw over a creative difference.

Now that that has been roundly and comprehensively debunked that Meltzer reported this, I challenge you to provide a SINGLE example of dishonest, unresearched or made up reporting tht Dave is responsible for.

The hilarious irony is that what you are accusing Meltzer of is EXACTLY what you are doing yourself in relation to Meltzer.

You come off as petty, insecure and very juvenile over this. Did Dave reject a story from you some years back? Or was there a perceived slight on his part towards you? You come off very bitter an dare I say it.... jealous in regards to
Dave.

So, with all respect Cewsh, again, I ask you to provide just a single example of this untruthful,sensationalist reporting which you are charging Meltzer with.

Thank you.

I'm guessing that you heard about my comments in this thread, and even saw some of the earlier posts that I made, but didn't see the retraction and apology that I made a few posts before yours. Here it is if you missed it:


Fair enough. I was entirely wrong on that one, and I apologize for making accusations that turned out to be false. Apparently those copy and paste sites, (including ours,) were reporting the part of the story the Meltzer actually reported and adding their own bit on while still attributing it to him. That's some awful, slanderous stuff, and he absolutely shouldn't be held at fault for it.

Seriously. As critical of him as I am, I'm sorry for having put that on the man.


Ugh. It's funny because I'm probably more negative of the man than I should be because so much of what he says is tainted by the time it reaches anyone who doesn't pay money for his service. That's a pretty serious issue with making his work inaccessible, but the fault isn't on him.

Fucking wrestling journalism, man.

And here is what I wrote on Twitter that same day:




Cewsh Reviews ‏@CewshReviews (https://twitter.com/CewshReviews)17 May (https://twitter.com/CewshReviews/status/335518853503262720)
So while many of my issues remain, I owe Dave Meltzer a sincere apology, and I very much mean it. Sorry, Dave. We're all better than that.



https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1763454224/th_TanahashiSilver_normal_normal_normal.pngCewsh Reviews ‏@CewshReviews (https://twitter.com/CewshReviews)17 M (https://twitter.com/CewshReviews/status/335518667922108417)ay
I was one of those that gave him a hard time, and I was wrong to do exactly what I accused him of. Slander without research. Awful.




https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1763454224/th_TanahashiSilver_normal_normal_normal.pngCewsh Reviews ‏@CewshReviews (https://twitter.com/CewshReviews)17 May (https://twitter.com/CewshReviews/status/335518468797517824)
I'm learning that news sites wrongfully attributed the "Rock is a selfish douche" parts of the Raw reports from awhile ago to Meltzer.




I have never submitted a story to the Wrestling Observer or any of it's related publications, and Dave Meltzer and I are only vaguely in the same business. He is simply the face that the world applies to wrestling journalism as a whole, and for me, and many other people, that makes him the occasional target of serious criticisms that he doesn't deserve for the way things work in that industry. I've never met the man, but I assume if I did he would be very humble, very friendly and incredibly knowledgeable, and I'm really sorry that I misrepresented him here. Please, by all means, take that apology back to the Observer website or wherever this was posted.

BARRY HORROWTZ
May 21st, 2013, 7:09 PM
Barry Horowitz, I'm assuming you saw the chat on the thread on The Board and popped over here to give your two cents. What's your username over there?


Slare, I'm chim55, who are you?

Ringo
May 21st, 2013, 7:13 PM
Yeah and tell him his star ratings are shit too!

Andy
May 21st, 2013, 7:31 PM
If you wouldn't mind, could you let him know I thought RVD vs Shelton Benjamin from Backlash 2006 deserved four stars, rather than the three and three quarters he gave it.

MMH
May 22nd, 2013, 3:20 AM
There was quite an interesting insight on how Meltzer works on mondays show this week regarding the UFC guy who was predicting loads of weird stuff accurately before disappearing that I think shows that he isnt just a sensationalist journalist and has a bit of decency about him.

Actually even going back to when the steroid and sex scandal in the early 90's was going on, when he was on the talk shows with Vince and a bunch of other wrestlers he was the only guy on the panel who was fair and reasoned and willing to see things from all sides.

Slare
May 22nd, 2013, 7:30 AM
I'm guessing that you heard about my comments in this thread, and even saw some of the earlier posts that I made, but didn't see the retraction and apology that I made a few posts before yours. Here it is if you missed it:





And here is what I wrote on Twitter that same day:




Cewsh Reviews ‏@CewshReviews (https://twitter.com/CewshReviews)17 May (https://twitter.com/CewshReviews/status/335518853503262720)
So while many of my issues remain, I owe Dave Meltzer a sincere apology, and I very much mean it. Sorry, Dave. We're all better than that.



https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1763454224/th_TanahashiSilver_normal_normal_normal.pngCewsh Reviews ‏@CewshReviews (https://twitter.com/CewshReviews)17 M (https://twitter.com/CewshReviews/status/335518667922108417)ay
I was one of those that gave him a hard time, and I was wrong to do exactly what I accused him of. Slander without research. Awful.




https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1763454224/th_TanahashiSilver_normal_normal_normal.pngCewsh Reviews ‏@CewshReviews (https://twitter.com/CewshReviews)17 May (https://twitter.com/CewshReviews/status/335518468797517824)
I'm learning that news sites wrongfully attributed the "Rock is a selfish douche" parts of the Raw reports from awhile ago to Meltzer.




I have never submitted a story to the Wrestling Observer or any of it's related publications, and Dave Meltzer and I are only vaguely in the same business. He is simply the face that the world applies to wrestling journalism as a whole, and for me, and many other people, that makes him the occasional target of serious criticisms that he doesn't deserve for the way things work in that industry. I've never met the man, but I assume if I did he would be very humble, very friendly and incredibly knowledgeable, and I'm really sorry that I misrepresented him here. Please, by all means, take that apology back to the Observer website or wherever this was posted.


This is all just a big ruddy bloody misunderstanding. Thing is, this is all an exact example of what's really wrong in wrestling journalism just now. Cewsh is by no means an idiot or a mark, but even he picks up this really crappy second hand journalism and attributes it to Metlzer (or Keller or whomever else). It creates this crappy ill feeling towards big Dave and some shitty cross-board hostility.

By the way Cewsh, the thread at the observer board wasn't directed at you, just incase you're feeling like you're getting the brunt of it, it was a thread about Meltzers tweets and the bunch of people that were having a go at him about the Rock thing, then Rajah came up and I bolted into to defend the honour of the forum and blame it all on Pena and how much of a cunt he is.

Slare
May 22nd, 2013, 7:31 AM
Slare, I'm chim55, who are you?

BENSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

kangus
May 22nd, 2013, 7:33 AM
Slare, you should just talk to your best mate JBL and give us the real scoop on wrestling.

Slare
May 22nd, 2013, 7:38 AM
Annoyingly JBL - since getting really involved with WWE again - has passed on the running of his site day to day to Adal Orca so he's the only one that's my mate anymore :( I still have big bad John's e-mail address though and sometimes when I'm drunk I think about messaging him. We were meant to play golf together but it fucking fell through due to bad weather (and him not wanting to play with me) :(:(:(

Cewsh
May 22nd, 2013, 4:02 PM
This is all just a big ruddy bloody misunderstanding. Thing is, this is all an exact example of what's really wrong in wrestling journalism just now. Cewsh is by no means an idiot or a mark, but even he picks up this really crappy second hand journalism and attributes it to Metlzer (or Keller or whomever else). It creates this crappy ill feeling towards big Dave and some shitty cross-board hostility.

By the way Cewsh, the thread at the observer board wasn't directed at you, just incase you're feeling like you're getting the brunt of it, it was a thread about Meltzers tweets and the bunch of people that were having a go at him about the Rock thing, then Rajah came up and I bolted into to defend the honour of the forum and blame it all on Pena and how much of a cunt he is.

I appreciate you clearing that up. I've actually decided to subscribe to the Observer for a bit to see exactly how wrong I've been, as a bit of a penance exercise. It should be interesting.

Historically, I don't agree with Meltzer's opinions or philosophy on wrestling at all, which also has played a role in not giving him the benefit of the doubt. That part likely won't change, but the factual stuff very well might.

DDT
May 22nd, 2013, 4:04 PM
You'll find yourself being a fan of the radio shows (especially the Alvarez ones) and nothing else.

Cewsh
May 22nd, 2013, 4:09 PM
You'll find yourself being a fan of the radio shows (especially the Alvarez ones) and nothing else.

I'm not sure about that. I have heard Metlzer and Alvarez on radio shows before, LAW Radio particularly, and have found them more annoying than anything.

Then again, I've really never found a radio show or podcast about wrestling that I enjoyed much at all. :(

MMH
May 22nd, 2013, 4:15 PM
I'm not sure about that. I have heard Metlzer and Alvarez on radio shows before, LAW Radio particularly, and have found them more annoying than anything.

Then again, I've really never found a radio show or podcast about wrestling that I enjoyed much at all. :(

The Bryan and Vinny show is great. Vinny balances out Bryan perfectly.

Aftermath was pretty good until it stopped getting made.

There is a solution out there...make your own.

Cewsh
May 22nd, 2013, 4:27 PM
I've certainly considered it, but without some kind of income coming in, I'm not sure I could dedicate the time to both that and Cewsh Reviews enough to make either one work. I'm sure the shows are probably quality as well, it's just a character flaw of mine that I get annoyed listening to people talk about their wrestling opinions when I can't participate.

I actually just went and read the most recent newsletter. It's certainly informative, as the information about Dragon Gate, Yuji Nagata and AAA was very welcome and new to me. The first bit certainly does seem full up with information that we're just supposed to take at face value without much elaboration, evidence or sourcing, but I had been told that going in. It was actually an enjoyable read, and I'll keep on with it for sure. Though the TV show reviews at the end were kind of a dumpster fire.

Slare
May 23rd, 2013, 9:59 AM
Yeah I'll agree that a lot of it can be absolute torture to read sometimes, I think its more down to the absolute speed that he writes and the amount of his output.

As far as the radio shows are concerned, the Tuesday (after Raw) Observer shows, and the Tuesday and Thursday Bryan and Vinnie shows are generally what I'll listen too. B and V are a hell of a lot of fun once you get into the swing of it (his Gran comes on for half an hour on the thursday and she talks utter nonsense but its hilarious once you get it).

The Board is fucking horrendous for the most part and theres so much shit to wade through and its full of complete in Jokes, but theres a lot of good stuff there. (Check out the #STOP4 thread from the start, fucking incredible, as well as the Dave Meltzers leather jacket megathread)

Cewsh
May 23rd, 2013, 10:51 AM
:yes:

I'll do all of that. Thanks for the recommendations, Slare.

MMH
May 23rd, 2013, 10:54 AM
Granny is pretty great.

Lance Storm is always an interesting listen too. They do have some very good podcasts, its not all just Meltzer.

I have never bothered to join the boards. It would be like cheating on this place.