The 9th Annual Wilfred's Debates - Round 2 - Mills vs. Kdestiny

[Cewsh]

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FICTION FIGHT CONFERENCE


It's incredible to think that 3 unheralded rookies have taken WWE by storm in the past 6 months, but few groups in WWE history have ever made such an incredible impact in such a short time as the Shield have. At this point they have still yet to be beaten, even by the most incredible superteams that the WWE roster could throw at them, and two major feuds have even grown out of the failure of these teams to compete with the Shield. So looking forward to the future, and knowing that all good things must come to an end, you have to make a choice...


WHAT TEAM (OF 3 PEOPLE) SHOULD BE THE FIRST TO BEAT THE SHIELD?


As a reminder, the rules are as follows. If you break a rule, there will be no excuses taken, so read them carefully. Each debate will have a 72 hour time limit, a 350 word word limit. Videos and pictures are not only allowed, they're downright encouraged.

Also, to finally address the issue of the first one to go or the second having the advantage, a coin will be flipped by me in advance to determine who goes first or second. Completely fair odds for everyone.

If you have any questions about the question you are given, or about how to proceed, please direct them to me BEFORE you post about them, to avoid troubles.

You must wait your turn to post, meaning that you can't rattle off all three right from the get go, you have to post in turns with your opponent and, this is very fucking important, IF YOU GET THE COIN TOSS TO GO SECOND, YOUR INTRODUCTION POST CAN NOT BE A RESPONSE TO THE OTHER GUY'S INTRODUCTION POST.

You must wait until your second post to begin debating what the other person has said. This is the only way to make this fair, it is not up for debate, and I will penalize your asses. So be fucking told.

Your judges are former Wilfred's champions Badger and the_man_diva.


The coin toss dictates that MILLS will go first.

[Mills]

http://www.wwenews.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Shield.jpg

Injustices. The Shield are a trio of men seeking to rid World Wrestling Entertainment of the injustices that they have percieved to be running amok. So many have tried, world champions such as John Cena, Ryback, Randy Orton, Chris Jericho and many others have been unable to bring them down. The Shield are unstoppable, and we need to figure how how they must lose.

Now, we've decided they need to lose, but we need to make it count. They cannot just having a great match, but build 3 mega stars in one match, named Dean Ambrose, Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins.


The men that have fallen to the Shield so far won't be enough in any of the current teams that have fought the Shield, but one super team can still fight the fight that can defeat the Shield and make the men stars. However, this match can only happen at one stage, the biggest stage of them all, Wrestlemania.

Wrestlemania 30, the Shield will fight the one fight they will not win, against the one team that will make them legends while closing the door on one of the greatest stories in WWE history.

The Shield will lose, and need to lose, to the team of:

http://graveside-entertainment.com/wp-content/uploads/HHH-HBK-Undertaker.jpg

Triple H, Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker

This (un)holy trio can give one last nod to their legendary run of matches while making 3 superstars that can continue to be the next wave of WWE superstars. No one in WWE can do so much good in one big time match but three of THE biggest stars in WWE history.

[Kdestiny]

The Shield is certainly one of the strongest booked teams of all time and I absolutely applaud the writers for this. If there were any team of three that I feel should defeat the Shield it would be…

http://www.thekliqnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/match-cenapunkhhh.jpg

You surprised?

Just hear me out here. Triple H is getting sick and tired of the Shield just causing havoc and hurting the best talent that the WWE has to offer. Triple then recruits WWE Champion John Cena to help him find a way to take them out.

Okay, seems pretty simple right?

This group has been booked as a true powerhouse, the numbers game will take over.

Triple H and John Cena try to take the Shield out at the PPV, Payback. They are fighting but obviously the Shield gets the upper hand until…


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM-hD-iJ9NI

The crowd would go absolutely nuts. CM Punk gets to the ring and hits each member of the Shield with a Roundhouse Kick. This is a program that goes well into Summerslam and maybe even Survivor Series.

CM Punk is back and he has realized that the Shield is why he lost the title. If they didn’t come in and bother him during his reign, he could still be Champion today. Check.

John Cena finally gets redemption over the Shield who have been beating on him for quite some time. I feel it’s smart to include him because he is their top guy.

Triple H gets a bit more control of his company again. The Shield is vulnerable now.

The best thing about this is that it could lead to so many different feud and new possibilities for the Shield. You would be lying if you said you didn’t want to see Punk against Ambrose, Rollins, or even Reigns in the ring.

The Shield have been built up so well, and they deserve to be defeated by a true power trio. I feel the storyline calls for this. They have hung in with the best in the business, and deserve to be beaten by the best in the World!

[Mills]

First off, I'm not surprised at your selections, nor are they bad selections. You have a WWE legend, a returning superstar in CM Punk and the WWE champion John Cena. However, your choices have some fairly large holes to account for, whereas mine could be feasible and make millions of dollars, which is a huge must for WWE.
http://i.imgur.com/TV8Qm.gif

Wrong team, right idea


Now, your story is nice and all, but it's just fantasy booking. You have fun bringing around these mixmatched stars coming together... but it's just ANOTHER match of 3 current mixmatched stars suddenly coming together and taking out the Shield. It's been done nearly to death in the WWE so far, at TLC, Elimination Chamber and Wrestlemania. While my group is also 3 wrestlers, these are 3 LEGENDS who can still go. HHH and Undertaker both had excellent matches just a month ago at wrestlemania, and HBK has looked great in the spots he had at Wrestlemania in the Lesnar match.



Also, this match is going to happen at PAYBACK?This is setting up a big time storyline, the Shield's first loss, and we're looking at PAYBACK? No, we're doing this right. Wrestlemania is the best spot to make this match have maximum impact. Payback won't have nearly the PPV buyers that a show like Wrestlemania has, minimizing the impact that the loss will have.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/8521629/wrestlemania_xxx_logo.0_standard_352.0.jpg

Lastly, your fantasy booking has some flaws. Your PPV has Cena and Triple H versus The Shield with a suprise return by Punk, thereby turning face. I can only speak for myself, but this sounds like a rough PPV lineup with the WWE Champ in with a 6 man tag where 1 member is unannounced. That's some convulted booking at best. My team is a fairly logical team with a reason to team up on the biggest stage of them all. Your story ends with them losing via a suprise return by someone who has reason to go against them at Payback. My story ends with them going out against 3 future hall of famers on the biggest stage of them all, without damaging the rest of the card.

[Kdestiny]

My idea is fantasy booking?

You are trying to bring back a retired superstar who enjoys being retired in Shawn Michaels and wasting what could be the Undertaker’s last Wrestlemania match (which we all know should be against John Cena).

The reason why my pairing works is because they are the right pairing of superstars, they all have something to offer to their own team. Plus, the Shield hasn’t had to face the Best in the World, CM Punk.

How isn’t Undertaker mismatching with Triple H and HBK? Your point there is really moot as these won’t just be an Orton/Sheamus/Show team. These are the three best in the business right now!

Never did I say that Triple H and Cena would have a match with Shield. I figured they could ambush them and start the set up for the future match at Summerslam with Punk on their team. Not sure how that wouldn’t make them money, their top stars taking on the hottest heel group to exist for a long time.

Punk returns to save Cena and Triple H thus leading to a future match. You must not read very well. I wouldn’t have this be a match where Punk comes back unadvertised for a MATCH, no way. It’d be a surprise, but it would have to build to Summerslam where the big bucks could really be made by WWE.

I’d also like to point out that your match idea for WMXXX is also flawed.

You are saying that this team of three legends who HAVEN’T teamed together to face the Shield would make the WWE more money than say The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar or the Undertaker vs. John Cena? If my booking is fantasy then I don’t even want to know where your booking is coming from.

I’d also like to point out once again: Michaels is retired and will stay that way as he is happy, Taker deserves a one on one match for his last WM showdown, this is the best option.

Best in the World.

[Mills]

Shawn Michaels may currently be retired, but there's zero reason to assume that he'd NEVER come back. Mick Foley retired, as did Ric Flair, The Rock, Terry Funk and hundreds of other wrestlers, yet all have come back at some point. You really think that he wouldn't come back to work Wrestlemania 30? Hell, he's making house show appearances in May, why not Wrestlemania?

Your logic also is hurt because by turning Punk face, you've now lost your biggest full time heel, damaging your total product. My team wouldn't harm the current roster one bit.

However, the whole point of this is to get the Shield moved up the card, to be made stars. The Shield would look like bonafied stars against this trio of legends who are experts at making new stars. Cena as the champ has really struggled the last few years in making new stars and turning Punk face will limit how much the Shield can get over without weakening him. In my scenario, the Shield goes out guns ablazing and can branch out in many ways. Maybe Rollins gets pinned, the other two get frustrated and kick him out. Maybe Ambrose gets pinned, loses his mind and goes further into madness. Hell, maybe Reigns gets pinned and turns face by respecting HHH. These are a few ways that this is the best way to get the Shield over, by getting their clean loss out of the way, at the biggest show of the year, Wrestlemania 30.

In conclusion, a few bullet points to reinforce why my team is the better option:

1. Bigger bucks. casual fans would comeback to watch this epic trio comeback and compete in a huge match. Hardcore fans disillusioned by the current product would buy this PPV to watch their hero HBK make his big return.

2. Bigger stars. Going down in defeat to these three is not going to make the Shield look bad. HHH would give a promo that would put the trio over, Cena would smile off their threat and "respect them"

3. Bigger deal. It's HBK, Undertaker and HHH at WRESTLEMANIA. The world will be watching!

[Kdestiny]

I don’t see how turning Punk face would really hurt him or the Shield. He was cheered already. It works story wise because Punk realized the Shield ended his historic reign.

Your situation is the same as throwing any random trio together, isn’t it? Why DX and Taker? Seems odd to me

I feel that by this point that Punk won’t ever be weakened, so a possible program with him and Ambrose would really be a dream come true with Ambrose being the true psycho that he is after the end of the Shield and how he must go after Punk for it.

As far as Cena goes, I am not his biggest fan but the merchandise sales speak for themselves. He will always be a top star. He can start a program with a monster Roman Reigns who has gone off his rocker after his defeat. I feel that Reigns has the look that many see in a possible top star, and this match would be a great platform for him

There is also the possibility of Ambrose/HHH and Rollins/Punk sure. You aren’t really thinking about setting up the future. These guys are the future of the WWE, and they deserve to be beaten by a team that really can help them out long term. If they lose to Taker/HBK/HHH, they will just be another tally mark for the Undertaker.

There are bigger bucks to be made for Taker anyway as a match with Lesnar or Cena would be the right way

This match is the best decision because it’s not just a one off.

This from an interview HBK had...

"We had a couple, little back-up plans if (I) wanted to come back maybe and do a little retirement tour and do it this way. I can remember after that match, me, Taker, and Michael Hayes were sitting in a room by ourselves taking it all in. Just very quiet. And Michael Hayes spoke up and said, 'Ya know, if that's the last one, I understand.' And I looked over at him and said, 'That's it.'"

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2951255/cm-punk-pipe-bomb-o.gif

[Cewsh]

Debate Closed.

Voting Is Open Until Sunday, May 19th.

[WizoOzz]

This was an excellent debate. It really sucks when there are two perfectly acceptable answers that are based basically off of opinion, so you can't go back and say "so-and-so had his/her facts more in line, they get the vote."

So basically, I have to go off of which side I agreed with more, while at the same time leaving myself open-minded enough that the opposite side be able to sway me if able to.

That being said, my vote goes to Mills. I think that an epic encounter would be what would need to happen in order to both have it be an acceptable loss, and also to set these three up as giant names for the foreseeable future. And taking Trips, HBK, and Taker to their limit and just coming up short would be the ultimate way of doing it.

Cena and Punk, in my opinion, are still too fresh off their feud to team realistically together. Whereas DX and Taker have history on their side, as well as the respect that could be built on from the past several Wrestlemanias.

KD, you put up a helluvan argument, though. As realistically, I can see where you're coming from - the two biggest names (arguably) in WWE and a legend in Trips. I'm afraid you're trying to execute too quickly, however. Wrestlemania is where superstars are made, where those superstars become legends, and those legends eventually become Hall of Famers.

Good job guys.

[Matty C]

I’m going to go with KD here in a very tight contest. In the end, the points about leaving big money on the table with Undertaker at WM, and HBK being fairly firmly retired as well as them not being consistent superstars, able to carry on feuds after the initial match, won me over. I actually favoured Mills initial choice but KD one me over.

[takerson]

Destiny wins. But this was a good debate.

Destiny just had much better points and his team is much more feasible. I basically agree with Matty C's reasoning in his vote. :yes:

[DaSaintFan]

I'm voting Mills

Kd never answered this line to my satisfaction: "but it's just ANOTHER match of 3 current mixmatched stars suddenly coming together and taking out the Shield'.

Instead of giving full reasons why this Team (HHH, Cena, Punk) : kd went with the "the right pairing of superstars, they all have something to offer to their own team. Plus, the Shield hasn’t had to face the Best in the World, CM Punk."
So basically kd's only "complete" reason was they hadn't faced CM Punk yet.... where as mills explained exactly why you took the three "attitude" stars and put them together. If kd had given a clear reason why those three were the three that needed to be paired together, I'd say kd would have won any other time, but he got handed a softball pitch and WHIFFED.

[Cewsh]

VOTING IS NOW CLOSED.

Popular Vote: Draw (2-2)

Judge Badger: kdestiny


Two fantastic choices, and I would love to see either of these matches. However, I felt kdestiny gave a myriad of options on how to book his feud, whereas I felt Mills's argument was a tad one-dimensional mainly relying on name value and not much story behind it. kdestiny also brought up a strong point about Taker nearing the end of the road and that there are still opponents one-on-one they could still have him face at Mania.

My vote: kdestiny

Judge Cewsh: kdestiny


This was an absolutely fantastic debate. Both sides made terrific choices and really argued them well, giving both ideas a ton to recommend them. Until kdestiny's last post I really had no idea where my vote was going with this, but Destiny did a fantastic job of looking at one weakness in Mills' argument and just pulling the leg out from underneath of it, by making a strong case that a third of the team wouldn't even be an option. But again, this was a great debate, and if Destiny hadn't brought in in a major way in his final paragraph, I think it would have gone the other way. Bravo, guys.


KDESTINY DEFEATS MILLS! (2-0-1)