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View Full Version : The 9th Annual Wilfred's Debates - Round 1 - Kneeneighbor vs. Mills



Cewsh
May 1st, 2013, 11:43 AM
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FICTION FIGHT CONFERENCE

Now, two new combatants will enter the circle of debate from which only one can proceed. And here is the topic that they will do battle over:

The WWE Hall of Fame is an institution that has gotten a great deal of criticism over the years for the people they induct, whether it be celebrities, subpar wrestlers, or people that are inducted ahead of more deserving people. It has also given us touching memories of fond farewells, and allowed us to pay tribute to the greatest performers in wrestling one last time. But we're not here to talk about the positive. And that is why you have to decide...


WHO IS THE LEAST DESERVING INDUCTEE INTO THE WWE HALL OF FAME?

(Here is a list of everyone currently inducted into the Hall of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Hall_of_Fame).)

As a reminder, the rules are as follows. If you break a rule, there will be no excuses taken, so read them carefully.

Each debate will have a 72 hour time limit, a 350 word word limit. Videos and pictures are not only allowed, they're downright encouraged.

Also, to finally address the issue of the first one to go or the second having the advantage, a coin will be flipped by me in advance to determine who goes first or second. Completely fair odds for everyone.

If you have any questions about the question you are given, or about how to proceed, please direct them to me BEFORE you post about them, to avoid troubles.

You must wait your turn to post, meaning that you can't rattle off all three right from the get go, you have to post in turns with your opponent and, this is very fucking important, IF YOU GET THE COIN TOSS TO GO SECOND, YOUR INTRODUCTION POST CAN NOT BE A RESPONSE TO THE OTHER GUY'S INTRODUCTION POST.

You must wait until your second post to begin debating what the other person has said. This is the only way to make this fair, it is not up for debate, and I will penalize your asses. So be fucking told.

Your judges are former Wilfred's champions Badger and the_man_diva.

Now let's get down to business. The coin toss dictates that KNEENEIGHBOR will go first.

Kneeneighbor
May 1st, 2013, 10:03 PM
When talking about the WWE Hall of Fame there are several glaring omissions as well as several head scratchers that have made it in. The first and most natural place to look is the celebrity wing where several have been inducted that have had little to no impact on the wrestling world and that my friends is where my submission calls home. Mr. Bob Uecker.

Uecker made two WWE appearances of note, at WrestleMania III and IV as the guest ring announcer and as a back stage interviewer respectively. Neither of those had any impact what so ever. The WWE was boasting Hogan vs Andre at WMIII and a tournament at WM4. Uecker had zero to do with the buy rate and zero moments from either show. In fact here below is the only thing of any note that Uecker did in wrestling.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvEYaX9ywQg

Hell, Ueker didn’t even sell the choke very well, especially after Andre let go. At least Pete Rose and Drew Carry sold the moves they received.
And while we are on the topic of celebrities can we really even consider Bob Uecker a celebrity? Lets see he hit around .200 in MLB, appeared in a few Miller Lite commercials and was on Mr. Belvedere. Yupp you all remember that hit show??? In the meantime the other celebrities in are the all-time hit king, are billionaires or at the very least have their own TV Shows in the case of Drew Carey who by the way actually wrestled a match.

The argument here is pretty simple. Uecker is the bottom of the barrel for the celebrity wing which in and of itself belongs below the rest of the hall of fame. Your choice people, is simply Bob Uecker.

Mills
May 3rd, 2013, 1:22 AM
The WWE hall of fame has some of the biggest names and towering presences in the history of World Wrestling Federation/Entertainment history. Big names like Stone Cold Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair and Andre the Giant spent years perfecting their craft, dedicating their lives to becoming the finest competitiors in the world. The person I've chosen has not. Ladies and gentlemen, let me tell you why DREW CAREY does not deserve to be in the WWE hall of fame.

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/CBS+Price+Right+Drew+Carey+500th+Show+caln6AuEBY4l .jpg




Drew Carey was at exactly one pay per view event, Royal Rumble 2001, being in one surprise backstage segment and a small sliver of the Royal Rumble, spending a grand total of 7 minutes of WWE time. 7 minutes. Think of just 7 minutes in WWE time, and that's worthy of a hall of fame spot? He talked with Vince McMahon, watched the Hardys eliminate themsleves and hop over the top rope to avoid more time with Kane, that's a forgettable segment, quick and to the point. But a hall of fame spot? Pure ridiculousness.

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/superstar_playlist/public/video/thumb/2012/03/hof_drew_vince.jpg


Also, we're talking about the HALL OF FAME. This isn't some random hoe-dunk promotion that honors whomever will take their small, minute payments. We're talking about the WWE hall of fame, a huge deal in the wrestling world. Someone who got their spot for 7 minutes of work doesn't deserve their spot in a fan's memory, let alone the WWE hall of fame.
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/132/298/HOF_Logo_crop_650x440.jpg?1334719389

Kneeneighbor
May 3rd, 2013, 1:23 PM
When comparing Bob Uecker and Drew Carey we are truly scraping the bottom of the barrel. However this is the WWE Wrestling Hall of Fame. I will say that again, the WRESTLING Hall of Fame. Bob Uecker has never even had a wrestling match while Drew Carey has in fact stepped into the wrestling ring and participated in the Royal Rumble.

Mills will try to distract you with 7 minutes and 1 Pay Per View. What he fails to mention in his post is that Drew Carey holds an elimination in that Royal Rumble after he climbed over the top rope and eliminated himself, so not only has Carey Wrestled in a match, he also holds an elimination in the event. That is more eliminations than HOF Member KoKo B Ware and Jimmy Snuka (who had 1/8th of an elimination)

If you want to argue celebrity then again its Mr. Carey who comes out ahead. He was the star of THE DREW CAREY SHOW. They obviously thought his name had enough fire power to sell it, and he later became the host of The Price is Right, replacing Bob Barker who was one of the all time most popular game show hosts around.

Whether you want to argue Celebrity or Wrestling accomplishments it is safe to say that Drew Carey takes the cake. Hell, just look at the picture Mills posted.

Mills
May 4th, 2013, 12:18 AM
Excuse me while I laugh for a second. Drew Carey is more valuable then Bob Eucker? You're out of your Elmo lovin mind!


First off, let's get a fact straight. It isn't the WWE Wrestling hall of hame, its the WWE hall of fame, and the E stands for ENTERTAINMENT.

Also, you mentioned that Drew Carey was worthy because he has a royal rumble elimination, by eliminating HIMSELF. While that is a ridiculous point in and of itself, we'll roll with it, but I have a question. Is Bruno Sammartino unworthy of the hall of fame? He has 0 eliminations, same with dozens of other hall of famers.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSQ3tNb89e3Yi9rZPfmqgEljk3FBa4y F1vVtVQeKozeBbCsfoT
Hall of fame worthy? NO.

Now TV show wise, while Drew Carey has some entertaining moments, Bob Eucker blows him out of the water. Drew Carey had a TV show named after him, cool, but it NEVER hit the rating levels of Mr Belvedere, which had a higher Nielsen rating by almost 4 points.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/36/Mr_Belvedere.jpg/270px-Mr_Belvedere.jpg

Also, Bob Eucker is a movie star, playing Harry Doyle in the classic Major League movie series, and a commerical star, starring in well recieved commericals for Miller Lite.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw42jf-uQcY

Drew Carey may've been a star, but Bob Eucker has been a superstar.

However, this is only a part of my argument...

Kneeneighbor has vainly attempted to gloss over Bob Eucker's credentials to be a hall of famer. Bob did broadcasting, skits and ring announcing at not one but TWO wrestlemanias, including whats considered the biggest main events of all time, Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant at Wrestlemania 3.

Speaking of Andre, you know the WWE opening credits, where Andre is mentioned by name, whose voice it that? Why, it's Bob Uecker's! Here's a clip as an example:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9arjhJ9b7Y

Bob's voice has lived on in WWE history for years and years, Drew Carey was involved in .11667 of an hour. How is Drew Carey more worthy of a hall of fame induction then Bob Uecker?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTdXUsDXNnnAehQLaCXJPJpFqHU9yGTo 6i4SjqEYXRtOOImTfu2

Yeah Drew, I can't think of a reason either

Kneeneighbor
May 4th, 2013, 10:47 AM
The probelm with your argument is Bob Uecker played a bit part on Mr. Belveder and everything else he did of note came after his WWE run while Drew Carey was a start when he arrived in the WWE. Major League was a good 3+ years after the WrestleMania appearances.

You frame the argument that 0 eliminations in a Rumble is what we are talking about with Uecker, but its not. Its the 1 for Drew Carey that is of note. It adds to his legacy while Uecker has done little to create one for himself. You mention that it was Bob Ueckers voice that announces Andre the Giant on the intro and yet I wonder how many people out there actually knew that? My guess is very very few, even here on the forums.

Even going by the eyeball test if you stop 100 people on the street more of them are going to know who Drew Carey is than who Bob Ueckers is. Lets be honest the hall of fame wing is set up to draw attention to the event and in the main stream media Carey is far and away the bigger star.

Mills
May 4th, 2013, 1:56 PM
Let's get a few things straight, Bob Uecker was well known before he came into his guest role at Wrestlemania, that's why he was invited to be a guest celebrity in Wrestlemania in the first place, and did so well that he was invited to come back for a second Wrestlemania. Drew Carey showed up to the Royal Rumble to promote his own PPV and was never heard from again.


Also, you brought up how Uecker's presence did little to help Wrestlemania's buyrate. At least Bob Uecker was mentioned beforehand, Drew showed up unannounced for the show. WWF/E thought enough of Bob Uecker to mention that he would be there, whereas they wouldn't even mention that Drew was going to be at the Royal Rumble.



Your argument in that more people would recognize Drew Carey's name over Bob Uecker's is a flawed opinion at best. Many fans recognize Bob Uecker from his commericals, announcing, acting roles in TV shows and popular movies. Drew Carey had a TV show that was popular for a few years, then faded into obscurity. I also find it convient that you laud Drew Carey for his TV show and Price is Right hosting gigs while low balling Bob's credentials for some of them happening after wrestlemania. You do realize that the Price is Right gig happened after his Royal Rumble guest spot right?


To round this up, lets review. Drew Carey is an actor that showed up at one PPV, UNANNOUCED, did a backstage segment and appeared in the ring for a few minutes and ran away, about 7 MINUTES total. Bob Uecker came to 2 wrestlemanias, did ring announcing, commentary and numerous backstage skits, performing well in all aspects.


Your argument is full of opinions, "people probably don't know it was Uecker's voice", assuming more people know who Drew Carey is then Bob Uecker, while I'm giving strong facts about starpower and multiple WWE appearances. Drew had 7 MINUTES for WWE, that's it. That's why he's the least deserving candidate for the WWE hall of fame, not Bob Uecker.

chatty
May 4th, 2013, 2:14 PM
I vote Mills

I don't know either guy tbh and both are scraping the barrell of the worst HOFers without a doubt. I picked Mills basically because I remember Uecker getting choked of Andre more than Carey fleeing the Royal Rumble. That's basically how bad both these HOfers are.

Cewsh
May 4th, 2013, 2:16 PM
THIS DEBATE IS CLOSED.


And now it's your turn, readers. All you have to do is reply with your vote and a short explanation as to why you voted the way you did, and your voice will be heard. Remember that your votes count for 50% of the total judging for every tie, so your one vote could be the difference between your choice moving on to the next round or being left out in the cold. So don't wait to do it later, don't put it off to see if you need another vote, and if lots of people vote one way, don't be afraid to vote your way anyway. These guys appreciate the support even in a losing effort. Regardless, your voice matters. Let's give these guys their due.

For new voters, just follow this template:


I'm voting for INSERT NAME HERE.

This is a sample paragraph. This is a sample paragraph. This is a sample paragraph. This is a sample paragraph. This is a sample paragraph. This is a sample paragraph. This is a sample paragraph. This is a sample paragraph. This is a sample paragraph. This is a sample paragraph.


Badger and The-Man_Diva will send their votes to me via Private Message as usual, to keep them secret until the end. Voting will end on Tuesday, May 7th. Now have at it!

The Rick
May 4th, 2013, 6:09 PM
edit*
my apologies

vote: Mills
Better argument structure.

Cewsh
May 4th, 2013, 6:21 PM
.

Mills
May 4th, 2013, 7:26 PM
Please remove your quote Cewsh, you're defeating the purpose

Mr_Nobody
May 4th, 2013, 8:23 PM
I'm voting for Kneeneighbor.

Both picked great choices for their Worst Hall of Famer. I honestly forgotten that either of them were in it, so that says a lot, but then again, I looked at the Hall of Fame, and I didn't realize a lot of those guys are in there. Both gave a strong opening argument, but where Kneeneighbor surpassed Mills is in the counter arguing by making Drew Carey seem like he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame a whole lot more than Bob Eucker.

DaSaintFan
May 5th, 2013, 4:21 AM
I'm voting for Mills

This was such an _EASY_ choice. We knew the obvious choice would come from the celebrity wing. But Mills nailed it: 2 invited visits to WM, (where WWE superstars WANT to go) vs. 0...

Matty C
May 7th, 2013, 11:25 AM
Neither choice would have been at the top of my list for this topic to be honest but that’s an argument for another time. Given the choices and arguments presented I found this to be a tough call. They both had similar arguments in mentioning the portion of their choice’s fame that came after their WWE time. It was pointed out that both choices had a relatively small impact/role. Knee’s point about the Drew Carey show stood out, Mills point about Uecker being announced beforehand and being invited back to the biggest show on the calendar stuck out as well.

In the end, that’s what took it for me. WWE had Uecker come to the biggest PPV on their calendar not once but twice, and announced he would be there showing that they felt he was a bankable name. I thought those points trumped the popularity of the Drew Carey Show point. I’m going with Mills.

Cewsh
May 7th, 2013, 1:08 PM
VOTING IS NOW CLOSED.

Popular Vote: Mills (3-1)

Judge Badger: Mills


Going for Mills here in a pretty one-sided affair.

He brought the facts from the start to back up his choice, whereas Kneeneighbor used a lot of assumptions that Drew is more well-known plus his argument of Drew deserving more because he'd been in the ring and credited with a Royal Rumble elimination just doesn't hold water at all.

Judge Diva: Mills


I'm going to sound like a complete cock for saying this, I'm sorry Cewsh, I don't mean to be, LOL.

I feel this topic was a complete waste of Mills AND Knee's debate skills; I really think the topic should have stated that selections couldn't be made from the celebrity wing ... thereby giving us something more diverse to read and for the posters to debate over.

Now, as for the actual debate ... I'll keep it short and sweet, I vote for Mills. His third post cemented my vote (it was a toss-up, really till Mills' finale). Mills mentioning that Carey showed up unhyped and unannounced to the Royal Rumble really had me laughing though ... and thank God he pointed out that a self-elimination shouldn't count.

Self-eliminations don't count as "eliminations" in Battle Royals, I'm just saying ... again, don't mean to sound like a cock.

Much love to both posters, you guys really didn't have that much to work with regarding the others' choices, but thanks for at least going all the way and making it entertaining.

MY VOTE: Mills


MILLS DEFEATS KNEENEIGHBOR (3-0)

Kneeneighbor
May 7th, 2013, 1:28 PM
Mills and I had talked and we were both hoping for something different to debate... so we have decided to start RAW Flashbacks starting from RaW #1. We are still hashing out a format at the moment but we are close to our big kick off.

Cewsh
May 7th, 2013, 1:55 PM
What an amazing show of sportsmanship. I heartily endorse this partnership. :yes:

The Law
May 7th, 2013, 2:04 PM
Mills and I had talked and we were both hoping for something different to debate... so we have decided to start RAW Flashbacks starting from RaW #1. We are still hashing out a format at the moment but we are close to our big kick off.

Wow, that's awesome. I totally endorse that decision. Lots of work ahead, as there have been over 1,000 episodes of Raw. On the other hand, the show was only an hour long until the beginning of 1997, so you should be able to burn through the first four years pretty fast. Thanks for taking this up!