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View Full Version : WWE RAW - April 22 2013 - 8PM ET, USA Network



greebull
April 22nd, 2013, 9:22 AM
6-MAN TAG TEAM MAIN EVENT:
Tag Champs Daniel Bryan & Kane / The Undertaker vs. The Shield

-PLUS: HHH responds to Brock Lesnar's STEEL CAGE Challenge
-ALSO: Cena and Ryback will meet at Extreme Rules on May 19. (It's official...) Will a stipulation be announced tonight?
-What's next for Fandango?
-Will the champions keep losing?

VHS
April 22nd, 2013, 10:49 AM
-HHH says maybe.
-John Cena will smile and Ryback will say Feed Me More.
-Fandango will say Fandango.
-Yup.

Andy
April 22nd, 2013, 10:57 AM
Why aren't we getting this live? The one time a year Raw is in London and they still don't air it till 1 am.

G-Fresh
April 22nd, 2013, 11:07 AM
Cause ya'll suck.

Jay
April 22nd, 2013, 4:02 PM
No Fandango tonight; apparently he's in Cardiff for the SmackDown! event :(

Kneeneighbor
April 22nd, 2013, 4:07 PM
I hope the Euro crowd Fandangos the hell out of Orton and Shamus then.

MikeHunt
April 22nd, 2013, 4:15 PM
British crowd. Don't European us!

Ringo
April 22nd, 2013, 4:37 PM
no fandango what the fucking shit :grumpy:

takerson
April 22nd, 2013, 4:40 PM
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/p480x480/525364_500674103315492_1915749342_n.jpg

CAN'T WAIT for this friggin' match. Gonna be insane. PPV quality for free.

Still can't get over, I know it's been said to death but it can't be said enough, DANIELSON and BLACK in a WWE match with The Undertaker. How fucking unbelievable is that? Just a couple years ago that would've been impossible, and before last week, I still never thought I'd see any of them involved in the same match as the fuckin' Undertaker. Ambrose too, it's surreal.

Andy
April 22nd, 2013, 4:47 PM
They made all that fuss about the whole Fandangoing thing being inspired by the British fans then don't put him on Raw from London two weeks later. Mad.

MikeHunt
April 22nd, 2013, 4:50 PM
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/p480x480/525364_500674103315492_1915749342_n.jpg

CAN'T WAIT for this friggin' match. Gonna be insane. PPV quality for free.

Still can't get over, I know it's been said to death but it can't be said enough, DANIELSON and BLACK in a WWE match with The Undertaker. How fucking unbelievable is that? Just a couple years ago that would've been impossible, and before last week, I still never thought I'd see any of them involved in the same match as the fuckin' Undertaker. Ambrose too, it's surreal.

I expect shenanigans and no match to happen.

mth
April 22nd, 2013, 4:57 PM
Main page has on-going spoilers, so if you want to know if the match happens or not, click this:
It does.

Ringo
April 22nd, 2013, 5:04 PM
yeah been looking forward to this Raw for 2 weeks primarily for the reaction to Fandango. Big big shame. Using him on the show could've helped him a lot.

Great main event advertised if it actually goes ahead though and the crowd should still be in good form. Won't be spoiling it for myself.

Andy
April 22nd, 2013, 5:05 PM
I love that Taker has been on Raw twice in three weeks and actually wrestled a match on this one. There's no doubt he wouldn't be there unless he absolutely wanted to be so hopefully he's in the mood for a run of sorts. I'd love to see him do a few PPVs this year and really build to a massive match at Mania next year.

Andy
April 22nd, 2013, 5:06 PM
Oh wait turns out Fandango is there. gods sake JAY

turdpower
April 22nd, 2013, 5:06 PM
No Fandango tonight; apparently he's in Cardiff for the SmackDown! event :(

wrong

takerson
April 22nd, 2013, 5:23 PM
If someone who's read the spoilers can PM me if the match actually happens or not, without any other details as to what happens in it, I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

My gut says there might be shenanigans preventing it, however for the England Raw, they usually have at least one special PPV-quality thing because it's a rare occasion for the UK fans.

mth
April 22nd, 2013, 5:24 PM
That's what was under my spoiler tag up there, I just said if it happens or not with no other details.

Jay
April 22nd, 2013, 5:36 PM
Oh wait turns out Fandango is there. gods sake JAYSPOILER! :irked:

He was advertised for the SmackDown! show in Cardiff tonight according to PWTorch, but I guess he's just too much of a hot act at the moment to keep him off Raw. I've never been more thrilled to be wrong.

Kimura Kid
April 22nd, 2013, 5:39 PM
I'm excited for another night of wrestling with the Rajah Boys!!

Hope we can pack the Skype chat again tonight!!

takerson
April 22nd, 2013, 5:42 PM
That's what was under my spoiler tag up there, I just said if it happens or not with no other details.

Thank you mth! :beer:

The Law
April 22nd, 2013, 5:47 PM
It sounds like a good show tonight:

Undertaker actually wrestles, which I didn't anticipate. I thought they would have him get taken out backstage or something along those lines. Jericho wrestles Ziggler and Ziggler actually wins. Regal wrestles Fandango, who apparently gets a crazy reaction. Foley is on the show too.

mth
April 22nd, 2013, 5:52 PM
*FULL SPOILERS* for tonight off the main page:
WWE taped tonight's episode of Monday Night RAW this afternoon from the O2 Arena in London, England. Here are complete spoiler results:

- RAW kicks off with Paul Heyman coming out, representing Brock Lesnar. Big ECW chants for Heyman. Heyman says Triple H is not at Raw tonight, and he is going to read an email to the live crowd that he received from Triple H.

Triple H's music hits, and he is in fact at RAW. He got a huge pop, but surprisingly not as big as the one JBL received for his entrance before RAW began. Triple H accepts Brock Lesnar's Extreme Rules match challenge, then gives Paul Heyman a pedigree!

- A graphic displays on the Titan Tron showing that later tonight - it will be World Heavyweight Champion Dolph Ziggler vs. Chris Jericho.

- R-Truth defeated Antonio Cesaro in a pretty quick match.

- Damien Sandow defeated Brodus Clay with a roll-up. Tensai and Cody Rhodes were at ringside.

- There have been very loud JBL chants all night.

- Dolph Ziggler defeated Chris Jericho with a Zig Zag. If Jericho had won the match, he would have been added to the World Heavyweight title match at Extreme Rules. The crowd got rowdy during this match, including a "We are awesome" chant. Jericho went for the Walls of Jericho, but Fandango's music hit and the crowd went nuts. However, Fandango never appeared - but the music distracted Jericho and allowed Ziggler to hit the Zig Zag.

- Tensai defeated Cody Rhodes.

- Ryback appears on the big screen says the fans don't understand him. He hyped his upcoming WWE Title match against John Cena at Extreme Rules and said he wants Mick Foley in the ring later tonight.

- Big E Langston squashed Zack Ryder.

- Backstage, Daniel Bryan and Kane were talking about their match against The Shield later tonight. Daniel Bryan showed Kane a pie chart - which led to a "we want pie charts" chant breaking out.

- The Shield defeated The Undertaker, Kane and Daniel Bryan. The Undertaker made his way out to the ring first, but was confronted by The Shield. Team Hell No ran out and made the save - which led to a brawl between all 6 men. Once things settled down, the match began - with Daniel Bryan and Dean Ambrose starting things off. Bryan quickly tagged in the Undertaker, who got in some offense on Ambrose and hit "Old School" before tagging in Kane. Our live correspondent says The Undertaker looked to be in great physical condition, moving around quickly without any signs of injury. Taker was involved in several big spots in the match, including a spear from Roman Reigns. The finish came when Daniel Bryan went for his flying headbutt on Ambrose, but Ambrose moved out of the way and got the pin.

- After the six-man, Bryan wants a hug from The Undertaker, but the Undertaker wasn't having it. Bryan insists Taker hugged him backstage earlier in the night. He never got a hug from the Dead Man, but got one from Kane.

- On the big screen, WWE showed several tweets from The Rock about needing surgery due to the injuries he suffered at WrestleMania 29.

- Backstage, John Cena was shown talking with Mick Foley. Foley addressed Ryback's comments from earlier in the evening, where he said he wants Foley in the ring tonight.

- Fandango comes out to one of the loudest pops of the night. His opponent tonight will be ... William Regal. Fandango got the win in what was described as a short, but fun match with a lot of crowd involvement. After the match, Chris Jericho came out and attacked Fandango. Jericho throws him off the stage and danced with Fandango's dancing partner.

- Divas champion Kaitlyn came out and cut a promo. A battle royal will be held to determine the #1 contender to the Divas title. AJ Lee won the battle royal, which also included Tamina Snuka, Cameron, Naomi, Layla and The Bella Twins.

- Mick Foley came out with a steel chair, but says he'd rather not fight anybody tonight. Out comes Ryback. They go back and forth - with Foley listing his career accomplishments and asying he won't back down from a fight. Ryback tells him to shut up and declares he will capture the WWE Championship at Extreme Rules when he defeats "Super Cena." Ryback calls Foley fat and pathetic and gets in his face.

John Cena's music hits and gets loud boos from the London crowd. The Shield runs out and it looks to be 4-on-1, with insurmountable odds against Cena. Cena manages to escape - which leaves The Shield there with Ryback. The Shield turns their attention to Ryback - but John Cena runs back into the ring with a steel chair and chases off The Shield. This leaves Cena and Ryback in the ring. Cena nails him with Attitude Adjustment to end the show.

Remember, if you're going to talk about any of that before the show airs, tag that shit.

Fanny
April 22nd, 2013, 5:52 PM
super pumped for tonight - crowd should be incredible, because UK crowds are like post-Mania RAW crowds. All the time.

Kimura Kid
April 22nd, 2013, 5:57 PM
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6669/ariel00.gif

Kurt
April 22nd, 2013, 6:28 PM
It has been a great night seeing it live. Will be interesting to see how it comes across on TV. The crowd was the best I remember in london from seeing it the last 3 years!

Zacharie
April 22nd, 2013, 7:01 PM
Sounds alright. I'm in it for the crowd and the six man match.

The Law
April 22nd, 2013, 8:03 PM
Got to say, these cinematic recaps/previews are an absolutely terrible way to start the show. No energy at all.

Hero!
April 22nd, 2013, 8:11 PM
HERE COMES HHH

Hero!
April 22nd, 2013, 8:11 PM
THERE GOES HHH

virms
April 22nd, 2013, 8:12 PM
Wait what


Fuck I need to get home and hero needs skype

Hero!
April 22nd, 2013, 8:17 PM
Fucking TROOF rapping his way out again yessss!!

Alex E
April 22nd, 2013, 8:18 PM
I was going to say that's the first time R-Truth had been on beat the whole time, then the end messed up...

Hero!
April 22nd, 2013, 8:18 PM
Skype? Y'all fgts don't even use the video chat. Pussies

Bluegunn
April 22nd, 2013, 8:19 PM
Kinda shocked how Fandango has yet to mention Jericho on dancing with the stars

virms
April 22nd, 2013, 8:21 PM
Skype? Y'all fgts don't even use the video chat. Pussies

Wjy do you want to sit and talk about raw while watching fellow posters watch raw lol.

You would just be wearing your rey mask anyways

maxxmisery
April 22nd, 2013, 8:21 PM
how the hell is r truth getting a push again?

I don't get it with this guy

Tainted Eclipse
April 22nd, 2013, 8:22 PM
what

Hero!
April 22nd, 2013, 8:22 PM
AWESOME shield entrance

Kneeneighbor
April 22nd, 2013, 8:23 PM
Well that helicopter ride was totally pointless.

And R-Truth needs to go away.

The Law
April 22nd, 2013, 8:23 PM
So this will be Undertaker's first match on Raw since he faced Jack Swagger on the volcano Raw in 2010. I think. He may have had another match on Raw later that year.

G-Fresh
April 22nd, 2013, 8:24 PM
Sweet T 4 champion of the fuckin universe.

Kimura Kid
April 22nd, 2013, 8:26 PM
Wait what


Fuck I need to get home and hero needs skype

Yea where you at?

Hero!
April 22nd, 2013, 8:31 PM
WTF ENGLAND WHERE'S DA CHANTS FGTS? THAT FANDANGOING WAS WEAK

Hero!
April 22nd, 2013, 8:35 PM
Team Bricky!

Ringo
April 22nd, 2013, 8:35 PM
I love Big E so much!

Kneeneighbor
April 22nd, 2013, 8:36 PM
I love crazy AJ. SO HOT!

G-Fresh
April 22nd, 2013, 8:37 PM
I don't give a fuck what any ya'll say. I'd fuckin smash Vickie.

Tainted Eclipse
April 22nd, 2013, 8:40 PM
big e likes to watch, what a man

StoneColdChris
April 22nd, 2013, 8:41 PM
So this will be Undertaker's first match on Raw since he faced Jack Swagger on the volcano Raw in 2010. I think. He may have had another match on Raw later that year.

Technically, he had a schelduled match up with Bret Hart later on that year (Raw 900?), which never started due to Nexus running interference. But pretty sure the Swagger match was his last official Raw one.

Kneeneighbor
April 22nd, 2013, 8:43 PM
I don't give a fuck what any ya'll say. I'd fuckin smash Vickie.

Id nail her too.

maxxmisery
April 22nd, 2013, 8:53 PM
seems like so many more commercials than usual

G-Fresh
April 22nd, 2013, 8:54 PM
Congrats to Jared for not being a fatass for the past 15 years.

Ringo
April 22nd, 2013, 9:22 PM
DIAGRAMS

Hero!
April 22nd, 2013, 9:34 PM
What the fuck is this music they have Biggy coming out to??

Hero!
April 22nd, 2013, 9:37 PM
Seriously, why is big e coming out to generic BLACK PEOPLE MUSIC?

Ringo
April 22nd, 2013, 9:39 PM
Solid Ryder heel turn there

Ringo
April 22nd, 2013, 9:39 PM
1

2

3

4

5

DO IT FFS

Ringo
April 22nd, 2013, 9:41 PM
Jesus, this is pretty dull. Struggling to stay awake for the main event here. We need another backstage segment. Those are the only things that have been keeping me awake since Heyman was speaking.

Hero!
April 22nd, 2013, 9:47 PM
I hope the shield just eat taker alive

Hero!
April 22nd, 2013, 9:47 PM
Oh and FUCK YOU DUDES who read spoilers instead of watching

Kimura Kid
April 22nd, 2013, 9:52 PM
Haha!! Hero you should get on skype.

The Rick
April 22nd, 2013, 10:01 PM
Damn you shield for making me care about 6-man tags. Seriously, I can't think of the last 6-man I really enjoyed before the shield came aboard.

Hero!
April 22nd, 2013, 10:03 PM
I love how this crowd has popped the loudest for Bryan over anyone else.

maxxmisery
April 22nd, 2013, 10:04 PM
Bryan is coming off as a beast here. Loving this match so far....

Hero!
April 22nd, 2013, 10:14 PM
Taker'a first loss in what...4 years?

Tainted Eclipse
April 22nd, 2013, 10:17 PM
Seriously, why is big e coming out to generic BLACK PEOPLE MUSIC?

five guesses

Ringo
April 22nd, 2013, 10:25 PM
Summer Rae!

Ringo
April 22nd, 2013, 10:28 PM
Oh Boyy :hyper:

maxxmisery
April 22nd, 2013, 10:29 PM
holy shit Regal is on TV!

Hero!
April 22nd, 2013, 10:29 PM
WILLIAM FUCKING REGAL

G-Fresh
April 22nd, 2013, 10:32 PM
WTF was that gay shit? Regal should have gone over.

The Law
April 22nd, 2013, 10:35 PM
That's Undertaker's first loss since Bragging Rights 2010 (October). Buried Alive Match against Kane. It's also the first time he's wrestled other than at Wrestlemania.

Kneeneighbor
April 22nd, 2013, 10:39 PM
A fucking battle royal with only 5 women?

G-Fresh
April 22nd, 2013, 10:46 PM
That might be the most awkward ending to a battle royal ever.

Tainted Eclipse
April 22nd, 2013, 10:52 PM
the hat means hes heel right

anthonyd46
April 22nd, 2013, 11:05 PM
the hat means hes heel right

i think the fact he said that he didnt care what the people think sealed it

maxxmisery
April 22nd, 2013, 11:06 PM
I hate the fact that they are bringing Ryback down the path of default Big Show style heel. Wish they'd just let him stay the same and let these guys go at it without a clear heel/face difference in them.

JT4104
April 22nd, 2013, 11:06 PM
umm ok....damn not having Punk and being stuck with HHH/Lesnar 3, this is truly post mania time.

maxxmisery
April 22nd, 2013, 11:12 PM
I give 1 point to DB's schematics, 3 points for the HellNo Taker/Shield match, and 2 more points for Regal being on the TV against Fandango of all people.

6/10

Not a great Raw, but furthering the ER PPV build up I guess.

Edit: Far better than last week for sure

The Law
April 22nd, 2013, 11:12 PM
It's really problematic that Ryback is being pushed as a main eventer but gets absolutely no response from the crowd. Dead silence when he comes out. All he had going for him before was "Feed Me More." I thought his promo was pretty abysmal. Just repeated himself over and over and seemed to have no idea what he was supposed to say.

Basically, this Raw had two good points: Jericho vs. Ziggler was good and the Shield match was awesome. Can't say anything else was of much of any interest. Good crowd, but a pretty weak showing overall tonight.

In the company's defense, they were without a lot of top guys tonight: Orton, Sheamus, Henry, Big Show, Del Rio, Barrett, Miz, Swagger. On the other hand, I can't say I find any of those guys particularly compelling right now. So I'm not sure they show would have been any better if they had been around.

Things I care about going on in WWE right now:
-Shield
-Hell No
-Ziggler being World Heavyweight Champion
-AJ
-Big E

Yeah, so basically there are two segments every week that I enjoy.

StoneColdWWE316
April 22nd, 2013, 11:27 PM
Much better RAW this week than last. The 6-Man Tag was hella fun and I wanted to see Daniel Bryan's drawn up plans,lol

Jericho/Ziggler was good,Regal (nuff said),and Ryback's Promo was fine.

London Crowd was on fire.

takerson
April 22nd, 2013, 11:37 PM
Jericho/Ziggler was great. As was The 6 Man Tag. Shield wins again! I was marking so hard when Taker & Rollins were cursing eachother out, and when Taker & Ambrose were in the ring fighting.

Foley was ON FIRE tonight on the mic, and Ryback fed off it well. Wasn't bad at all.

Epic crowd, REGAL, Summer Rae... Great, great show. Kept me entertained throughout and had TWO PPV quality matches.

Zacharie
April 22nd, 2013, 11:43 PM
5/10 I didn't think Ryback came off that bad for it being one of his first back and forth promos. I think he'll get better. And yeah, Foley delivered as always. He can go out there and say the same shit every time but still cuts good promos.

Shield/BoDaniel was good

Zig/Jericho... Regal... crowd was alright, they were more of a soft repeat of the post-Mania Raw.

Nothing else to report, it was just an ok Raw.

mr sabu
April 23rd, 2013, 12:26 AM
if putting them in a match with taker.. and putting them in a chopper shows they are behind the shield

Brian M.
April 23rd, 2013, 12:58 AM
Why the hell do they book house shows the same night as Raw? I was confused as to why they wouldn't have Barrett in a match in London. Now it makes sense. Still, dumb.

Show was pretty good anyway. The Shield are being booked like absolute beasts. Seriously, has anyone ever been booked this strong upon debut? They've now beaten John Cena, Ryback, Sheamus, Kane, Daniel Bryan, Randy Orton, Big Show and The Undertaker. Not to mention they've taken out The Rock. Jesus.

Psycho666Soldier
April 23rd, 2013, 2:30 AM
Excellent RAW tonight. Ziggler/Jericho and of course TakerHellNo/Shield were great to watch. I really hope the 6-man Tag leads to a rematch at Extreme Rules. Let them finally suffer a loss, then have them go for the Tag Team Titles for a dominant year long reign. Well, until WrestleMania, at least.

All the matches were enjoyable for the most part, and I liked all the promos...but I'm still disappointed in there quickness in turning Ryback. Tonight solidified the fact that he's going full heel. It was a really good heel promo he pulled off, and this is a fantastic way they've put it together...but it's not the right thing to do. It's not the right time. They've killed Ryback momentum and reaction. The heel thing might take off, but it feels so sudden and out of place.

Ryback should have stayed as the main monster face, and the only one who could put a challenge to Cena. Now he's just another heel on the roster.

8/10. Would have been a 9 without Ryback's heelishness.

Andy
April 23rd, 2013, 4:00 AM
I love The Shield. At this stage it's hard to see exactly who is going to stop them and I think they should be booked as such. They've beaten every big full time star the company has. It's still fairly likely Cena beats them eventually. Maybe they cost him the title and he gives them their first loss after that. I mean they've beaten Cena and Undertaker! Maybe some sort of super team involving Trips and Cena eventually takes them down but I have no idea. Maybe it would be best if internal divisions ultimately cost them but I don't want to see that any time soon.

GtheMVP
April 23rd, 2013, 5:16 AM
I really enjoyed the show, loved the 6 man tag. The Shield continuing to be booked so amazingly well is shocking considering how poorly everything else has been lately! Taker looked great in there, his presence, along with the Shield, DB being over, and the Brothers of DEstruction reunion, gave this match an epic feel!

I was really happy to get a break from ADR, Orton, Big Show and Sheamus, can't say I missed any of them one bit, pure cheeseballs.

I liked the ending until Cena came out and made Ryback look like a bitch, wtf were they thinking ? How are we supposed to take him as a threat to Cena. Foley was awesome, and Ryback was solid enough, I appreciate his passion and effort, far better than anything Goldberg ever did (let alone tried) on the mic. The show would have been a 9, or 10, from me had Cena not been there and Ryback had just decapitated Foley instead.

The Shield should have cut Cena off at the ramp, allowing a good Foley beatdown by Ryback IMO, but I guess we're getting another Super Cena run, shouldn't be surprised.

GtheMVP
April 23rd, 2013, 5:19 AM
I love The Shield. At this stage it's hard to see exactly who is going to stop them and I think they should be booked as such. They've beaten every big full time star the company has. It's still fairly likely Cena beats them eventually. Maybe they cost him the title and he gives them their first loss after that. I mean they've beaten Cena and Undertaker! Maybe some sort of super team involving Trips and Cena eventually takes them down but I have no idea. Maybe it would be best if internal divisions ultimately cost them but I don't want to see that any time soon.

The only group I'd like to see stop them is Evolution, so long as Batista is part of it I wouldn't even mind Batista being the mystery fourth member of the Shield, however, they really don't need anyone else. THe Shield are defintiely the best thing going in WWE right now, that and the blond Fandango brought out, what a stellar body!! :D

So her name is Summer Rae? NXT girl?... NICE!!

http://wrestleshare.com/?dm=GZDQ

McBain
April 23rd, 2013, 8:29 AM
Turning Ryback heel is among the stupidest recent decisions WWE has made.

mr sabu
April 23rd, 2013, 9:15 AM
katie vick

JP
April 23rd, 2013, 10:17 AM
No massive thoughts this week as too much work on, but this weeks booking was God awful.

Cena looks like Superman again and Ryback is absolutely God awful - when you're opposite Mick Foley and you can't raise your game you might as well just give up.

Whoever came up with the finish for the 6-man tag needs shooting, about as lazy and weak as you can get.

But the biggest fuck up, you've got a match with The Undertaker and it's not the main event? Have they lost their minds?

lotjx
April 23rd, 2013, 10:59 AM
No massive thoughts this week as too much work on, but this weeks booking was God awful.

Cena looks like Superman again and Ryback is absolutely God awful - when you're opposite Mick Foley and you can't raise your game you might as well just give up.

Whoever came up with the finish for the 6-man tag needs shooting, about as lazy and weak as you can get.

But the biggest fuck up, you've got a match with The Undertaker and it's not the main event? Have they lost their minds?

I am sure its what the British fans wanted. It also hides the loss by not having it as the main event.

JP
April 23rd, 2013, 11:14 AM
I am sure its what the British fans wanted. It also hides the loss by not having it as the main event.

Why would you want to hide the loss though? It's huge, Taker loosing for the first time in nearly three years, it should be front and centre.

On your point about it being what the 'British fans wanted' I am just completely lost. Like, shitty episode in the 5th season, lost.

Kimura Kid
April 23rd, 2013, 11:19 AM
Anyone else Notice the ever so slight planting of the seeds beef between Ziggler and Big E?? I could be wrong but I feel like the division is inevitable and could happen sooner than most expected.

I hope I'm wrong though. Ziggler, Big E and AJ are quite the team!!

Psycho666Soldier
April 23rd, 2013, 11:37 AM
Anyone else Notice the ever so slight planting of the seeds beef between Ziggler and Big E?? I could be wrong but I feel like the division is inevitable and could happen sooner than most expected.

I hope I'm wrong though. Ziggler, Big E and AJ are quite the team!!

The Ziggler/Big E. split is inevitable, but if WWE were smart, they'd keep them together through the end of the year and separate them in the build to 'Mania, leading to Ziggler vs. Big E. at the grand stage. Best way would probably be to have Ziggler lose the belt somewhere between TLC and Royal Rumble, maybe have it somehow be Big E.'s fault, at least in Ziggler's eyes, and go from there. Big E. goes over in a huge way and we probably see an awesome match. For the WHC wouldn't be bad, either, but that would feel a lot more forced.

PurePlayer
April 23rd, 2013, 11:57 AM
Why the hell do they book house shows the same night as Raw? I was confused as to why they wouldn't have Barrett in a match in London. Now it makes sense. Still, dumb.

Show was pretty good anyway. The Shield are being booked like absolute beasts. Seriously, has anyone ever been booked this strong upon debut? They've now beaten John Cena, Ryback, Sheamus, Kane, Daniel Bryan, Randy Orton, Big Show and The Undertaker. Not to mention they've taken out The Rock. Jesus.

I was wondering who will be the team that will beat the Shield. I was thinking it would be cool if Punk came back around Summerslam to challenge them. Not sure who his partners would be though.

VHS
April 23rd, 2013, 12:04 PM
Brock and HHH feud.
Truth vs. Cesaro.
Rhodes Scholars and Tons of Funk feud.
Jericho vs. Ziggler.
Big E vs. Ryder.
Hell No and Undertaker vs. Shield.
Fandango vs. Regal.
Divas Battle Royal.
Ryback.

Raw sucked, and will continue to suck until the high and mighties backstage decide to wake up.

OD50
April 23rd, 2013, 1:07 PM
I tried to watch but fell asleep three times, seriously. The six man sounds like it could be worth checking out though.

The Law
April 23rd, 2013, 1:18 PM
They have a chance to make a tag team huge stars by beating Shield. If it were up to me, Shield would win the tag titles from Hell No and hold them until Survivor Series or so. Right around then they can have a new tag team be the ones to finally defeat them. I don't really have a proposal for who it would be, but it would be nice if the rub from beating them went to someone other than Cena or other established guys. The key should be that Shield was able to beat Cena, Ryback, Sheamus, Bryan, Kane, Undertaker, Orton, and Big Show because they were groups of individuals, not real teams.

I also think it would be fun for Christian to have a storyline when he comes back where he gets in a beef with the Shield and keeps trying to find the right partner to beat them. We haven't had a good "guy searches for a tag team partner" storyline in a long time.

Andy
April 23rd, 2013, 3:22 PM
I actually enjoyed Raw this week - infinitely better than last week.

I actually liked Ryback's promo and his in ring stuff. It's certainly different, which is a good thing. Still a little rough around the edges but I liked the intensity, swearing, calling Foley a fat mess and his hat. Telling the crowd to shut and and look at how pathetic Foley is really tickled me too, and it got a big reaction. The inevitable Cena standing tall was just that. It's so standard now that I find it harder and harder to be annoyed by.

Ziggler/Jericho was as good as you'd expect, as was all the involvement from Big E, AJ and Fandango. Speaking of Big E, was that his NXT music? It's very dull. It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Fandango because his crowd reactions have gone something like couldn't give a fuck, couldn't give a fuck, couldn't give a fuck, RED HOT, mixed, couldn't give a fuck, RED HOT. Quite odd. It seems likely that Jericho is done for a while so I'm interested to see where Fandango goes from here. Maybe a feud with Kofi for the US belt.

The Shield vs Hell No Destruction was awesome, as is now the standard for them. Undertaker looked in great shape and he looked really up for it. Reigns was made to look like an absolute beast again, Ambrose's facial expressions get more and more weird every week and Rollins' manic screaming and diving around is great. I'm hoping they get a rematch at Extreme Rules with a big stipulation or for the belts.

So that was the three main points of the night and I enjoyed them all. The filler was ok, there wasn't any horrific booking which was good. I like Cesaro but he's not exactly hot at the moment so losing to Truth is ok. I'm not crazy about Cody losing to Tensai but Tensai has been enjoyable recently, jumping around and screaming like a lunatic. They need to end that feud though, getting boring now. AJ was really over so it was the right decision for her to go over, I kind of liked that ending too. Kaitlyn was surprisingly charismatic in he booth too. Oh and Heyman continues to be amazing. Really liked the interaction with Trips, short and sweet and that was all that was needed.

Enjoyable Raw, nothing amazing. 6.

VHS
April 23rd, 2013, 3:36 PM
HHH's interaction with Heyman was a cut n' paste Pedigree out of nowhere that we've seen a million times. 10 minute entrance, speak 2 words, Pedigree, leave.

Ringo
April 23rd, 2013, 3:40 PM
About a 5 for me. Generally not into it with some obvious exceptions. Lots of laziness and dumb shit going on at the moment.

VHS
April 23rd, 2013, 3:53 PM
Also, something that had me steamed last night was WWE changing Big E's theme to some generic shlock.

JP
April 23rd, 2013, 3:56 PM
Also, something that had me steamed last night was WWE changing Big E's theme to some generic shlock.

I do wonder at times if Jim Johnston is just one massive racist.

Kimura Kid
April 23rd, 2013, 4:00 PM
I think the title of his new theme is 5, Maybe they planned on using it for him in NXT? Cuz he sure as fuck aint doing a 5 Count on Raw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4osH0qmKk8

Yeah it's terrible. His previous theme was money.

VHS
April 23rd, 2013, 4:04 PM
This is a theme that's not going to make the crowd want to pop when they hear it. They're just going to turn their heads to see who's coming out and then they'll say "Oh."

Beer-Belly
April 23rd, 2013, 4:21 PM
I thought there was enough entertaining stuff here to give it a 7.

Not quite sure where all the hate for Ryback is coming from. I was waiting for him to crumble, but he did perfectly fine. Still, turning him heel seems like a huge mistake.

The Shield vs. Taker/Kane/Bryan was excellent.

Ziggler vs. Jericho was highly entertaining.

There was too much filler, but the only thing that stuck out as particularly stupid was Cena twatting around The Shield after they just beat the goddamn Undertaker.

The Rogerer
April 23rd, 2013, 4:35 PM
Great matches, everything built towards something, even the notion of having two Tons vs Scholars matches made it slightly interesting. Foley came out and did what he does best. Shield match was great. William Regal was there. They even managed to make the divas match seem worthwhile. Hard not to enjoy this show. I wouldn't call what happened on the show filler compared to what's been happening lately. Triple H was boring as usual but it was over quickly.

Also I don't understand the comments about superman Cena. Cena with a chair against the shield after a match with the brothers of destruction. They may have won the match but this isn't the Legend of Zelda.

chatty
April 23rd, 2013, 7:35 PM
So have Battle Royals always been through the ropes or do they just have no faith in their current divas to be able to put them over the top without screwing up?

mth
April 23rd, 2013, 7:37 PM
Diva battle royals have been through the ropes for awhile.

chatty
April 23rd, 2013, 7:39 PM
Ah I generally skip Diva matches so that ll be why Ive never noticed before then

Psycho666Soldier
April 23rd, 2013, 9:00 PM
Great matches, everything built towards something, even the notion of having two Tons vs Scholars matches made it slightly interesting. Foley came out and did what he does best. Shield match was great. William Regal was there. They even managed to make the divas match seem worthwhile. Hard not to enjoy this show. I wouldn't call what happened on the show filler compared to what's been happening lately. Triple H was boring as usual but it was over quickly.

Also I don't understand the comments about superman Cena. Cena with a chair against the shield after a match with the brothers of destruction. They may have won the match but this isn't the Legend of Zelda.

I agree with all of this, but the bolded part I wanted to especially highlight. People are complaining there was a bunch of "filler" when really it was a nice, match-oriented RAW that had a bit of background. You could argue Cesaro/Truth was filler, and even make a case for Regal/Fandango, but Regal/Fandango at least served the purpose of getting Fandango more exposure while treating the crowd to a local favorite. Rhodes/Tensai and Sandow/Brodus was a nice way of keeping the feud going, showing that both teams are essentially on even footing, giving Tensai a LONG-OVERDUE solo win, and both matches were rather enjoyable. Ziggler/Jericho wasn't filler, Hell No & Taker vs. Shield wasn't filler, Ryback/Foley/Cena wasn't filler, so it hardly felt like a "filler" RAW.

And on the subject of Ryback's promo being "bad", I feel everyone is quick to jump on his skills and is too critical. He actually did WAYYY better than most unexpected guys they turn and put in a spotlight like that. He blurred the lines and kept his promo from being repetitive or dreadfully plain, with good delivery, so I don't quite understand the complaints. That said, I'm still against the Ryback turn.

Psycho666Soldier
April 23rd, 2013, 9:01 PM
Oh, and I agree on Big E.'s music. It's the same problem with PTP's music change. Their music(both Big E's and PTP's separately) on NXT at least stood out. It felt like an entrance theme, and you knew who was coming out. Their new music just kind of lingers in the background without getting you pumped.

Psycho666Soldier
April 23rd, 2013, 9:05 PM
They have a chance to make a tag team huge stars by beating Shield. If it were up to me, Shield would win the tag titles from Hell No and hold them until Survivor Series or so. Right around then they can have a new tag team be the ones to finally defeat them. I don't really have a proposal for who it would be, but it would be nice if the rub from beating them went to someone other than Cena or other established guys. The key should be that Shield was able to beat Cena, Ryback, Sheamus, Bryan, Kane, Undertaker, Orton, and Big Show because they were groups of individuals, not real teams.

I also think it would be fun for Christian to have a storyline when he comes back where he gets in a beef with the Shield and keeps trying to find the right partner to beat them. We haven't had a good "guy searches for a tag team partner" storyline in a long time.

While I agree with most of this, I really think Shield's title reign should go into WrestleMania. Make it THAT MUCH MORE of a bigger deal, and if they get the belts around Payback, it would be lengthy Tag Title reign without going too far past Hell No's reign. Shield looks strong as hell up until 'Mania, and after that, you can either start spreading them out the divisions more, or begin the dissolution of the group.

Sorry about the triple post. I meant to edit the last one into my first post.

G-Fresh
April 23rd, 2013, 9:23 PM
Tensai won a solo match against Titus O'Neil like a month ago on Main Event. It was a really good match too.

Psycho666Soldier
April 23rd, 2013, 9:42 PM
Tensai ALWAYS has really good matches when given the chance. Loved his stuff during the first two months of his debut until they tried to shoehorn him against Cena and ruined everything.

Plus, the gimmick didn't help one bit.

Sinner
April 23rd, 2013, 10:01 PM
Tons of Funk is a way to get Tensai over. Not the other way around, whether intended or not.

R-Truth push is awesome. Little Jimmy is gone it seems. I think Truth needs a run with the IC title as a face, otherwise I kind of feel a return of Awesome Truth but as faces. I don't know about that.

Lesnar needs to kill Triple H to look competent.

I really want Ryback to beat Cena. I really do. Just for the shock factor, alone. Sadly i think the main event will end with either a Cena victory or a SHIELD attack. Meh, to both.

I love The Shield. By the way. And Mark Henry.

Antonio Cesaro needs to be pushed. To the top. Have him and Alberto form an alliance or something. Something besides yodelling.
--

Those are my random thoughts.

what are your's?

Tempest
April 23rd, 2013, 10:03 PM
I still disagree that Lesnar needs to go over to look good. It's a different world, is WWE. He can lose forever and still look like this massive beast.

Psycho666Soldier
April 23rd, 2013, 10:04 PM
Tons of Funk is a way to get Tensai over. Not the other way around, whether intended or not.

R-Truth push is awesome. Little Jimmy is gone it seems. I think Truth needs a run with the IC title as a face, otherwise I kind of feel a return of Awesome Truth but as faces. I don't know about that.

Lesnar needs to kill Triple H to look competent.

I really want Ryback to beat Cena. I really do. Just for the shock factor, alone. Sadly i think the main event will end with either a Cena victory or a SHIELD attack. Meh, to both.

I love The Shield. By the way. And Mark Henry.

Antonio Cesaro needs to be pushed. To the top. Have him and Alberto form an alliance or something. Something besides yodelling.
--

Those are my random thoughts.

what are your's?

I don't know about pushing Antonio to the top, but he should definitely be getting more prominence than this. He's still on TV, and months from now we'll probably be eating our words a bit, but regardless, the man is a star. Even if he doesn't ALWAYS captivate on the mic, he makes up for it in other promos and through ALL OF HIS RING WORK which the crowd really reacts to. If you can get the crowd reacting to your matches from a WWE crowd, you know that's something special.



I still disagree that Lesnar needs to go over to look good. It's a different world, is WWE. He can lose forever and still look like this massive beast.

While he could, it would be so much more effective if he actually went over. Plus, the casual fans who would tune in to see Lesnar would likely just give up eventually if he keeps losing. Why not let Lesnar look the dominant here?

More importantly, he should have beat Cena in his first match back. Story-wise and booking-wise, it would have fit perfectly, and would have started Brock strong. Then he beats Triple H at SummerSlam. Now he looks unstoppable. Then everything progresses as it does. Hell, at that point, less people would even complain if he lost to Triple H at Extreme Rules.

Tempest
April 23rd, 2013, 10:12 PM
I think Lesnar should go over here, but won't be shocked if he doesn't. In WWE land, wins and losses can mean shit all, like they did before he left.

Lesnars thing is that he is a badass, not that he can't lose.

Psycho666Soldier
April 23rd, 2013, 10:13 PM
I think Lesnar should go over here, but won't be shocked if he doesn't. In WWE land, wins and losses can mean shit all, like they did before he left.

Lesnars thing is that he is a badass, not that he can't lose.

Agreed, though I hate being complacent with WWE Land's typical MO.

The Law
April 23rd, 2013, 10:35 PM
See, I think Tensai could have been really awesome if used right. It would be really cool if it was like "This is Tenasi. He used to wrestle here as Albert. He went to Japan, trained in Japanese wrestling, and became one of the biggest stars in Japanese wrestling. Now he's back to make his mark on America." Him having a Japanese motif would have been fine, but they went way too far with the robe, the helmet, and Sakamoto as his manager. They've never done a storyline where a guy left to go wrestle somewhere else and they acknowledged it when he came back. I really like the idea of a wrestler becoming a better fighter by working overseas and developing their skills. I feel like MVP would be perfect for this kind of role if he ever came back. Probably without the Asian motif, because it wouldn't really fit him.

Basically, they screwed up Tensai by going too far with the Japanese aspect of his character, and then having him do nothing but lose over and over. I don't mind his comedy act with Brodus right now, but I think he's capable of more.

Tempest
April 23rd, 2013, 10:38 PM
I hate Alberts angle because he is basically the 2013 hip hop hippo. the A-TRAIN was great and worked for him. Why he was suddenly Japanese and then the hip hop hippo again grieves me

Judas Iscariot
April 24th, 2013, 1:48 AM
Just watched the Team Hell No Destruction vs Shield match.

Fantastic.

But at one point Kane delivers a sidewalk slam.

Cole goes, "Vintage Kane with the side slam!"

Six seconds of no commentary.

JBL goes, "Vintage Cole commentary!"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I love JBL so much.

I also fucking love him working with Cole. I think the two of them are made for each other.

Judas Iscariot
April 24th, 2013, 2:13 AM
I hate Alberts angle because he is basically the 2013 hip hop hippo. the A-TRAIN was great and worked for him. Why he was suddenly Japanese and then the hip hop hippo again grieves me

The Tensai thing was fucking stupid.

OH SNAP! He has a lot of cred in Japan now???

Well let's bring him back! And uh, well, so, well, we're WWE and he was in Japan, sooo...

OH! WE'LL GIVE HIM A JAPANESE GIMMICK!

The mentioned early on that he was a "WWE Superstar" who had gone over to Japan to hone his skills, and as soon as the crowd was like, "Hey, that's A-Train!" they were like, "Ignore it, ignore it, play up the Japanese thing... Oh fuck it isn't working... Confiscate the crowd's signs... Oh fuck that isn't working either? Well, shit, Tensai starts with the letter T, Brodus Clay's dancing gimmick didn't take off because we didn't know what to do with another big scary looking guy... You know what would be sweet? DID I HEAR THE WORD SWEET? Well, by gawd, we got it figured out!!!!"

Cewsh
April 24th, 2013, 3:12 AM
Watching Raw right now. Enjoying it off and on, but these crowds are fucking annoying.

Judas Iscariot
April 24th, 2013, 3:19 AM
I HATE CROWDS WHO REACT TO THINGS

Judas Iscariot
April 24th, 2013, 3:19 AM
I ESPECIALLY, ESPECIALLY HATE CROWDS WHO SHOW THAT THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED IN WHAT'S SERVED TO THEM WHEN THEY PAY MONEY FOR IT

The Rogerer
April 24th, 2013, 3:23 AM
Watching Raw right now. Enjoying it off and on, but these crowds are fucking annoying.Yeah can't wait for them to go back to America where they sit there blankly until a camera points at them and then they wave at themselves. Then won't participate in anything until a racist heel comes out and they can start wanking and chanting USA USA USA. Never mind that the raw crowd actually participated in the matches, and their interaction on this show was actually very appropriate and engaged at all times. A participating crowd who was happy to be there.

OD50
April 24th, 2013, 4:04 AM
Yeah can't wait for them to go back to America where they sit there blankly until a camera points at them and then they wave at themselves.

:lol:

So true, only thing these dumbass crowds seem to care about is waving when they're on the big screen or getting their mong signs like 'KEVIN 183!' or 'I'M AWESOME!!' on camera.

I wish WWE would do like in the old days and turn the lights down during matches. That way I wouldn't have to see said crowd members.

JP
April 24th, 2013, 4:05 AM
Watching Raw right now. Enjoying it off and on, but these crowds are fucking annoying.

Whaaaaaa?

Helped the show, even in the Ziggler/Jericho match where they went a bit schizo. Jericho showed exactly how to work with something like that and turn in into a positive. I hope Sheamus, and especially Orton who really should have a better grasp at these things by now, were watching.

Does give me a chance to make a larger point though. The crowd was beginning to lose interest in Ziggler/Jericho, it was nowhere near as good as people on here are making out, exactly the same as the enjoyable - but that's it - 6 man tag. I think hype over substance took over a little this week. I'd be interested to see people's thoughts after watching them again.

Ringo
April 24th, 2013, 4:06 AM
They did a Mexican Wave and chanted "We Are Awesome!" during that match though, didn't they? Jericho did respond to it which I liked and I think they did a better job than Sheamus and Orton at getting the crowd back into things.

Says something though.

The Rogerer
April 24th, 2013, 4:07 AM
I'm normally not a fan of how Jericho works but that was perfect. Managed to interact with the crowd and set up the blocked lionsault. Unlike Orton and Seamus who ended up looking like toddlers who couldn't find their mum.

I think this made me realise what people don't like about faces. They're so needy. That's why Daniel Bryan ends up as a massive face. He's got everything that should be popular, but as a character he doesn't need the crowd's approval. That's part of what makes Cena so annoying, I think, always going on about the reaction and the fans.

OD50
April 24th, 2013, 4:15 AM
They did a Mexican Wave and chanted "We Are Awesome!" during that match though, didn't they? Jericho did respond to it which I liked and I think they did a better job than Sheamus and Orton at getting the crowd back into things.

Says something though.

Jericho is a salty old veteran though, he should be able to handle any kind of crowd. I remember WCW crowds destroying him during his Lionheart days, he was just a pup at the time though. :lol:

Vice
April 24th, 2013, 4:28 AM
If all heel heat is good, regardless if they're booing the character for being a good heel or the "X-Pac heat" groaning variety, and it doesn't matter if John Cena gets booed because he's still getting a tremendous reaction.. then as long as a crowd is making noise, it's a good crowd and a good thing.

McBain
April 24th, 2013, 4:35 AM
If all heel heat is good, regardless if they're booing the character for being a good heel or the "X-Pac heat" groaning variety, and it doesn't matter if John Cena gets booed because he's still getting a tremendous reaction.. then as long as a crowd is making noise, it's a good crowd and a good thing.

That's an awful lot of "ifs".

McBain
April 24th, 2013, 4:39 AM
I'm normally not a fan of how Jericho works but that was perfect. Managed to interact with the crowd and set up the blocked lionsault. Unlike Orton and Seamus who ended up looking like toddlers who couldn't find their mum.

I think this made me realise what people don't like about faces. They're so needy. That's why Daniel Bryan ends up as a massive face. He's got everything that should be popular, but as a character he doesn't need the crowd's approval. That's part of what makes Cena so annoying, I think, always going on about the reaction and the fans.


Yeah can't wait for them to go back to America where they sit there blankly until a camera points at them and then they wave at themselves. Then won't participate in anything until a racist heel comes out and they can start wanking and chanting USA USA USA. Never mind that the raw crowd actually participated in the matches, and their interaction on this show was actually very appropriate and engaged at all times. A participating crowd who was happy to be there.

Can't decide which one of these I want to rep the most.

Peter Griffin
April 24th, 2013, 5:46 AM
It would be great if we had hot crowds every week,but on the other hand it certainly fels like this weeks crowd werent a good crowd in terms of wanting to enjoy the show but just wanted to go and make it about them and acting like tools half the time. Chanting fandangos theme? why not, no problem. Being deathly silent during during a Jericho/Ziggler match, wtf people? if this was such a good WRESTLING crowd they would of been hot as hell for a match like that. But no, because they had nothing to act stupid about and make random non sensical chants about they had nothing to say on the matter, even though they are at a fucking wrestling show.
Now its apparent everyone else loves these crowds because they amuse you, thats fine, but again they are not a good WRESTLING crowd because they blatantly dont give a toss about the actual wrestling.

The Rogerer
April 24th, 2013, 5:54 AM
The ending of the Ziggler match was too predictable because of the stipulation, if that helps. You're also being selective as their reaction to the Shield match made it better.

chatty
April 24th, 2013, 6:02 AM
I'd rather have a hot crowd chanting about nothing that a crowd that don't make any noise at all.

chatty
April 24th, 2013, 6:15 AM
I still disagree that Lesnar needs to go over to look good. It's a different world, is WWE. He can lose forever and still look like this massive beast.

I disagree, theres only so many ties they can job him out before people stop caring. if he keeps losing then it does nothing for the guys beating him. His run last year was so bad that people didn't even give a crap about his big match at mania and sat there in silence.

It's like when Mike Tyson was nearing the end of his career as a boxer and people tuned in because he was a name but no one considered him a threat anymore - thats basically what they are turning Lesnar into, a couple more losses and they'll start feeling sorry for the big beast who has nothing left.

Hell look at Jericho, if you need any proof that constant losing is bad booking, the guys a solidified mid-carder who people didn't even expect to beat a debutant, people get a win over him and it means nothing - he still gets good pops cause hes a legend but at this point other than being a good worker in terms of TV he doesn't really bring much to the table.

JP
April 24th, 2013, 6:53 AM
I disagree, theres only so many ties they can job him out before people stop caring. if he keeps losing then it does nothing for the guys beating him. His run last year was so bad that people didn't even give a crap about his big match at mania and sat there in silence.

It's like when Mike Tyson was nearing the end of his career as a boxer and people tuned in because he was a name but no one considered him a threat anymore - thats basically what they are turning Lesnar into, a couple more losses and they'll start feeling sorry for the big beast who has nothing left.

Hell look at Jericho, if you need any proof that constant losing is bad booking, the guys a solidified mid-carder who people didn't even expect to beat a debutant, people get a win over him and it means nothing - he still gets good pops cause hes a legend but at this point other than being a good worker in terms of TV he doesn't really bring much to the table.

Look at Lesnar. Just look at him. Look at the way he demolished 3MB. Win/Loss means bugger all for somebody with his look, demeanor and legacy. And anyway, I will be amazed if he doesn't win the Cage Match.

Your point on Jericho rankles too, as you seem to be getting average fan and geeky geeks like us mixed up. None of us thought Jericho was going to win at Mania, but that was nothing to do with his win/loss record and everything to do with how the feud had been booked and how it made logical sense for Fandango to go over. Average fans thought the exact opposite, that this newcomer had no chance against the multi-time world champion.

Tempest
April 24th, 2013, 7:35 AM
I disagree, theres only so many ties they can job him out before people stop caring. if he keeps losing then it does nothing for the guys beating him. His run last year was so bad that people didn't even give a crap about his big match at mania and sat there in silence.

It's like when Mike Tyson was nearing the end of his career as a boxer and people tuned in because he was a name but no one considered him a threat anymore - thats basically what they are turning Lesnar into, a couple more losses and they'll start feeling sorry for the big beast who has nothing left.

Hell look at Jericho, if you need any proof that constant losing is bad booking, the guys a solidified mid-carder who people didn't even expect to beat a debutant, people get a win over him and it means nothing - he still gets good pops cause hes a legend but at this point other than being a good worker in terms of TV he doesn't really bring much to the table.


I knew someone would compare these two. Jericho has always lost, as one of the top faces and one of the top heels in the early 00's. He's where he is now because he comes and goes. Jericho had the heat to give a rub for years before he's got to where he is now. I'd still argue that he can...

Lesnar has lost a few matches and is still booked more consistently than anyone else. Only the internet clan will really question his status.

chatty
April 24th, 2013, 7:54 AM
I'd expect him to win the cage match and that would restore the balance a bit but honestly I don't think having the look and beating upper jobbers does that much for you if long term booking is bad. With Lesnar I'd expect them to have him win his two matches up to Mania to make him look strong again and then probably lose at mania when he goes in with rock or Taker. Thats cool as then it looks better than losing four/five times out of six which effectively means everyone can beat him.

I think general fans will see it worse as well. They get all the hype about him being this massive beast and then when they tune in he gets beat everytime so they then think 'well, hes not that good is he?'

chatty
April 24th, 2013, 7:56 AM
Plus dismantalling 3MB doesn't mean nothing considering they get beat in 3 on 1 matches all the time. It looked good but no one would expect anything else tbh.

Peter Griffin
April 24th, 2013, 8:03 AM
I'd rather have a hot crowd chanting about nothing that a crowd that don't make any noise at all.

Roger has a point, but I have to disagree with this, I mean I can see why people might say this, because I hate the dead crowds as much as anyone, but its when these crowds wander into look at me territory it bugs me (mexican waves, really). But I guess ive said enough on this subject so im not going to bore everyone with it anymore :D

Bennedy
April 24th, 2013, 8:55 AM
Kind of annoying how the crowd just tried to copy the jersey crowd. Was hoping for something original. The fact that they started to chant "we are awesome" about an hour in was laughable.

Andy
April 24th, 2013, 10:40 AM
Yeah the wave was stupid because it was in the middle of a good match. The we are awesome chant was ridiculous. Everyone loved the Jersey crowd because it was original. You can't copy it chant for chant and then declare yourself awesome. They were hot for the main event and the Ryback stuff though which was good.

Cewsh
April 24th, 2013, 10:52 AM
I HATE CROWDS WHO REACT TO THINGS


I ESPECIALLY, ESPECIALLY HATE CROWDS WHO SHOW THAT THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED IN WHAT'S SERVED TO THEM WHEN THEY PAY MONEY FOR IT

:lol:

I would love it if every crowd were as into every show as much as the London crowd was into the main event. They were connected, they were invested, and it made the match better. Same for the Regal bit. Every part of the show before that they were just masturbating to the sight of their own influence over the show.


Yeah can't wait for them to go back to America where they sit there blankly until a camera points at them and then they wave at themselves. Then won't participate in anything until a racist heel comes out and they can start wanking and chanting USA USA USA. Never mind that the raw crowd actually participated in the matches, and their interaction on this show was actually very appropriate and engaged at all times.

I really don't agree with the word "appropriate" there.

Dave
April 24th, 2013, 12:46 PM
I haven't watched the show yet, so I don't know how it came across on TV, but in the arena it definitely felt like a crowd that had seen the crowd from the night after Wrestlemania and just wanted to imitate it.

The chants were nowhere near as vociferous as they were in NJ, and a lot of the time it did seem to lack ideas. The pacing of the show definitely didn't help - even though it was a recorded show they still put in all the advert breaks you'd get watching live which left the crowd deflated, especially as the show was lacking some of the bigger names.

There was definitely also a lot of people trying to do the "look at me" sort of thing. - to the point where there was even a group of guys trying to start a Mexican Wave during the six-man tag.

chatty
April 24th, 2013, 12:52 PM
Roger has a point, but I have to disagree with this, I mean I can see why people might say this, because I hate the dead crowds as much as anyone, but its when these crowds wander into look at me territory it bugs me (mexican waves, really). But I guess ive said enough on this subject so im not going to bore everyone with it anymore :D

Why be bothered, if you don't like the crowd they are easy to ignore. A silent crowd just makes it look like no one gives a shit. I'd prefer some crowds wanking over themselves and making a noise rather than deadly silent and not giving a shit what happens at all. And god all mighty, maybes the wrestlers will actually go with it and learn how to work a crowd instead of just getting pissed off at them or shitting it. It might work better for them in the long run.

chatty
April 24th, 2013, 12:54 PM
The video I seen of three fans dressed as undertaker, Bret Hart and Dolph having a match outside the arena got a better reaction than Wrestlemania did for the most part - that's just wrong.

OD50
April 24th, 2013, 1:13 PM
Back in the day when matches were mostly improvised it was way easier for the rasslers to adjust to the crowd. These days matches are so scripted that it's impossible to adjust based on crowd reactions.

Another lost piece of the pro-wrestling art form.

Cewsh
April 24th, 2013, 1:59 PM
I really want to know what wrestlers you guys think would be capable of adapting to a crowd that is doing the wave during a good match.

Cewsh
April 24th, 2013, 2:01 PM
Why be bothered, if you don't like the crowd they are easy to ignore. A silent crowd just makes it look like no one gives a shit. I'd prefer some crowds wanking over themselves and making a noise rather than deadly silent and not giving a shit what happens at all. And god all mighty, maybes the wrestlers will actually go with it and learn how to work a crowd instead of just getting pissed off at them or shitting it. It might work better for them in the long run.

Learning how to work a crowd has nothing to do with this, because the crowd isn't responding to what is going on in the ring at all. Singing the Fandango song and doing the wave is completely contrary to playing along with the product, and Jericho going and doing the wave with them just breaks the flow and story of the match.

You must see how a crowd that actively strips a match of it's suspension of disbelief is an issue.

JP
April 24th, 2013, 2:11 PM
I really want to know what wrestlers you guys think would be capable of adapting to a crowd that is doing the wave during a good match.

Any wrestlers that have had experience outside of only the WWE and it's developmental system.

Cewsh
April 24th, 2013, 2:13 PM
Any wrestlers that have had experience outside of only the WWE and it's developmental system.

I don't want you to get me wrong here. What you guys are saying about the matches being scripted and guys being unable to improvise because of it is 100% correct and that is a big issue.

But this has nothing to do with that. This is an entirely new breed of audience reaction, and I don't see any way that the wrestlers have much of a chance to do anything to adapt to it. If you have examples of any wrestler taking a crowd this self involved and making it work, I would love to hear them.

The Rogerer
April 24th, 2013, 2:18 PM
This is an entirely new breed of audience reaction:lol:

I'm sure any indy wrestler has had to deal with ten times worse.

Cewsh
April 24th, 2013, 2:19 PM
:lol:

I'm sure any indy wrestler has had to deal with ten times worse.

In what way? They often get heckled, and that's pretty awful. But this is on a scale that completely obliterates anything an indy worker will ever have to deal with.

Ringo
April 24th, 2013, 2:26 PM
Might agree with Cewsh to be honest. I can't think of any examples where wrestlers have had a response like that and managed to turn things around. Taker/JBL, Brock/Goldberg etc. It doesn't give them much of a chance.

Andy
April 24th, 2013, 2:31 PM
It's a shame the London crowd did this during a good match between two great performers but I would love it if a trend started where crowds just started singing any random shit and doing the wave during stuff they don't like. It would give the wrestlers in question a kick up the arse and if it did continue it would give WWE a genuine problem. Crowds who visibly don't give a fuck about what they're putting out there would be a real issue. Wishful thinking but maybe it would force a change. Obviously not by doing it durin Jericho/Diggler but I'd love it, LOVE IT if the crowd did a big wave and sang Fandango's music during every Cena promo and match from now on. I want them all to do the Poznan for the entire main event at Extreme Rules.

The Rogerer
April 24th, 2013, 2:32 PM
Edited this into the previous post but it looks like it was missed:

Jericho going along with it doesn't break the flow of the match. How is it worse than what was actually scripted, "Jericho lost the match because some music played". If anything playing along with the crowd actually REINFORCED the script as Jericho was paying attention to his surroundings.

Yes, the crowd started a mexican wave. It's no coincidence that it's a UK crowd (some of whom may well have been part of the infamous RAW crowd anyway), and it's probably no coincidence that it was during a completely predictable match thanks to the stipulation. Nice to see they haven't learned their lesson from Triple H at wrestlemania.

Hopefully they get more completely bored crowds in the future. Then they can get on with their matches. Seriously though, you have to take the rough with the smooth. You can't ask for a crowd to be lively through a three+ hour show and then not expect them to get bored, and yet still keep the energy up by doing their own thing. Jericho did the right thing. A professional wrestling interacting with the audience, who ever thought of such a mental concept?

JP
April 24th, 2013, 2:38 PM
Might agree with Cewsh to be honest. I can't think of any examples where wrestlers have had a response like that and managed to turn things around. Taker/JBL, Brock/Goldberg etc. It doesn't give them much of a chance.

That's a little different though.

The reactions of the matches you mentioned were actively hostile. What we saw with Sheamus/Orton and Ziggler/Jericho was more a lack of interest of what was happening in front of them.

I do think Jericho handled it brilliantly too.

Vice
April 24th, 2013, 2:40 PM
Brock improvised by flicking the crowd off.

Kdestiny
April 24th, 2013, 2:48 PM
I really want to know what wrestlers you guys think would be capable of adapting to a crowd that is doing the wave during a good match.

D Bry and CM Punk probably would do the wave with them

Peter Griffin
April 24th, 2013, 3:32 PM
I think my feelings on this were intensfied by the house show I went to last night. Even though its no where near the same as tv, I think the 'look at me' thing is spreading around. People chanting you cant wrestle at Brad Maddox before the bell rang, chanting it at The Divas just after the bell rang, and , heres the best part chanting it at Dolph fucking Ziggler and Cesaro, also chanting such classics as King Kong Bundy at Ryback :wtf: and of course the whole mexican wave business during what was a pretty damn good second portion of the show. So yeh this thing might be here to stay.
Again though, I want nothing more than good crowds, I just dont think this is the way forward. Ha look at me still on about it when I said I wouldnt, guess its annoyed me more than I thought :nono:

Cewsh
April 24th, 2013, 3:34 PM
I loved it when I went to an indy show last weekend and like 3 dudes tried to start the Fandango song, only to have about 50 people loudly tell them to shut the fuck up.

I suspect that will happen if people try to get this started outside of smark cities. It already isn't funny anymore.

The Rogerer
April 24th, 2013, 3:39 PM
Now we know why ECW failed

Peter Griffin
April 24th, 2013, 3:44 PM
Because Paul Heyman was a crook and a bad businessman ?

Cewsh
April 24th, 2013, 3:52 PM
Now we know why ECW failed

An irrelevant comparison. Though in a larger way, that's exactly why they failed.

chatty
April 24th, 2013, 4:23 PM
I think the smarky crowds could be good though. The reason they are shtting on it is because the product is generic as hell, predictable and stale in many ways. The more it gets shit on the more they have to acknowledge it and the more chance of some changes being made. I noticed a lot of kids were joining in as well and with that they'll start to change their attitude to a mindset of this is way more fun than sitting quiet during an Orton match.

Sure, some of it reeks of dickishness on the crowds part but to be fair the WWE has brought it on themsleves with their safe as hell predictable product.

Kneeneighbor
April 24th, 2013, 4:24 PM
Agree. If the WWE doesnt like it they need to do something about it.

chatty
April 24th, 2013, 4:26 PM
Learning how to work a crowd has nothing to do with this, because the crowd isn't responding to what is going on in the ring at all. Singing the Fandango song and doing the wave is completely contrary to playing along with the product, and Jericho going and doing the wave with them just breaks the flow and story of the match.

You must see how a crowd that actively strips a match of it's suspension of disbelief is an issue.

I get your point but that suspension of disbelief isn't there anyway because of how the show is predictably booked. I'm hoping it continues and the wrestlers start asking for changes. They can't do the same shit everyweek and expect to keep the crowd excited. They have really killed the surprise element of the show off recently and the predictability has been there for a long time.

I'd rather see a crowd happy and excited about shitting on this than a crowd bored out of their brain wishing they hadn't bothered buying tickets in the first place.

turdpower
April 24th, 2013, 4:36 PM
I think the smarky crowds could be good though. The reason they are shtting on it is because the product is generic as hell, predictable and stale in many ways. The more it gets shit on the more they have to acknowledge it and the more chance of some changes being made. I noticed a lot of kids were joining in as well and with that they'll start to change their attitude to a mindset of this is way more fun than sitting quiet during an Orton match.

Sure, some of it reeks of dickishness on the crowds part but to be fair the WWE has brought it on themsleves with their safe as hell predictable product.

Exactly.

OD50
April 24th, 2013, 4:50 PM
I love how Vince has Cole and King refer to any crowd not following the script as being from 'bizarro world'. Awesome way to put your head in the sand..

But I think that people down on the product should just stop paying for tickets, PPV's and merch. That's the only thing Vince will take notice of.

chatty
April 24th, 2013, 4:58 PM
I love how Vince has Cole and King refer to any crowd not following the script as being from 'bizarro world'. Awesome way to put your head in the sand..

But I think that people down on the product should just stop paying for tickets, PPV's and merch. That's the only thing Vince will take notice of.

They probably would if there was an alternative but unfortunately the alternative is absolutely turd. The problem is that WWE hold all the cards. They have the kiddy favourites in Cena, Orton, Sheamus etc which they like to build a generic main event scene around but then they have the other side of the coin which keeps the smarky fans here such as Punk, Bryan, Cesaro, Sandow, Ziggler etc.

But these guys have to stay second fiddle to the family friendly lot and thats why there is a split crowd. in times gone by they would just buggar off to the other big company and make their way there if they could but in this world the wage difference is probably too good to turn down and even if they did, WWE burries anyone leaving the company to the point where they don't have the same pull moving over - not that it would matter, the way TNA mostly book things, they do a grand job of killing their own stars credibility themselves.

Ringo
April 24th, 2013, 5:05 PM
Punk certainly didn't play second fiddle to Sheamus and Orton for all of 2012. Or at Wrestlemania this year. And Bryan is pretty family friendly and over with kids. The others are all heels and have been for their entire WWE careers.

I do think the way they book faces and heels is the absolute worst thing about current WWE though.

chatty
April 24th, 2013, 5:12 PM
Punk certainly didn't play second fiddle to Sheamus and Orton for all of 2012. Or at Wrestlemania this year. And Bryan is pretty family friendly and over with kids. The others are all heels and have been for their entire WWE careers.

I do think the way they book faces and heels is the absolute worst thing about current WWE though.

Yeah he was the heel to Cenas face though.

Sheamus was booked above Bryan who tbf does a marvellous job of getting over no matter what he does.

Orton would probably be still top of the SD face mountain if he wasn't such a fuckwit.

WWE like the fam friendly show, it dont bother me to be honest, they always have been that way other than for a few years at the end of the 90s but they also have all the best wrestlers so theres no alternative but to stay. i'd love TNA to get there act together and really offer a place to go but that boats sailed and i think they've ran out of reboots.

VHS
April 24th, 2013, 5:16 PM
Is it possible that the crowd did the wave because they were enjoying the match and having fun as well?

Ringo
April 24th, 2013, 5:23 PM
Yes they do like the fam friendly show because that's their current model. And while I don't have a problem with the lack of sex, blood and brutality I do hate the way they bland up every face in the Cena mould to "appeal" to children. Even this forum seems to have forgotten how popular Orton and Sheamus once were here when they were heels (well... Orton in 2009).

But Punk has not been playing second fiddle to anyone other than Cena and the four huge part timers. He held the most important title in the company for all of 2012 whilst Sheamus had a monopoly over the secondary belt and Orton barely even challenged for that. And at Wrestlemania he got to face The Undertaker whilst Orton & Sheamus wrestled The Shield in the opener. So that's not right. And it's not like he's only over amongst smarks.

Same with Bryan whose act with Kane is clearly child friendly. I'd hardly say his primary function is keeping the smarky fans around.

If Sandow, Ziggler or Cesaro turn face they will likely lose much of their appeal because they too will become more family friendly.

I do see your point - just not sure your post was really accurate.

chatty
April 24th, 2013, 5:42 PM
Yes they do like the fam friendly show because that's their current model. And while I don't have a problem with the lack of sex, blood and brutality I do hate the way they bland up every face in the Cena mould to "appeal" to children. Even this forum seems to have forgotten how popular Orton and Sheamus once were here when they were heels (well... Orton in 2009).

But Punk has not been playing second fiddle to anyone other than Cena and the four huge part timers. He held the most important title in the company for all of 2012 whilst Sheamus had a monopoly over the secondary belt and Orton barely even challenged for that. And at Wrestlemania he got to face The Undertaker whilst Orton & Sheamus wrestled The Shield in the opener. So that's not right. And it's not like he's only over amongst smarks.

Same with Bryan whose act with Kane is clearly child friendly. I'd hardly say his primary function is keeping the smarky fans around.

If Sandow, Ziggler or Cesaro turn face they will likely lose much of their appeal because they too will become more family friendly.

I do see your point - just not sure your post was really accurate.

I'm not saying thats there primary fnction, I'm saying thats why the smarks hang around and even they were to leave and go elsewhere then they probably wouldn't excel as much as they do in WWE due to the factors mentioned so its hard to tell people to stop watching because their are elements their for them they just happen to be away from the main event scene for the most part.

The Rogerer
April 24th, 2013, 5:52 PM
The crowd shat on the Orton/Seamus match because they didn't care. They shat on the Jericho/Ziggler match because it was predictable and this is a problem. The betting odds for wrestlemania were an embarrassment and the creative teams should have looked at them and learned a lesson. The entire appeal of a wrestlemania, or watching shows live, of worrying about spoilers is 'What is going to happen? I have to watch to see what is going to happen!' Every wrestlemania match could be predicted from a mile away and the only reason I bet money on all the outside chances is because I thought there was no way in hell they could be that predictable, and they were. Well done, I lost my money because they are mental. The crowds are well within their rights to mess about - if they're doing a mexican wave they're probably not that entertained, and it could be the difference between them coming away bored and deflated from an event or not.

Vice
April 24th, 2013, 6:01 PM
I loved it when I went to an indy show last weekend and like 3 dudes tried to start the Fandango song, only to have about 50 people loudly tell them to shut the fuck up.

I suspect that will happen if people try to get this started outside of smark cities. It already isn't funny anymore.

ALLISON DANGER WHAT MAKES YOU SO DANGEROUS?

Ringo
April 24th, 2013, 6:04 PM
You bet on Henry to beat Ryback?

Also, yeah. They've been going the safe route for some time. Having Miz go in to Mania as Champion and retaining was seen as somewhat risky and I thought the general belief was that it was working well until that awfully booked main event. Apparently not because they put the title back on Cena at first opportunity and demoted Miz in a way that no previous Champion has ever been demoted. Things have pretty much been ultra safe ever since. I like how they had combinations of Sheamus, Del Rio and Big Show wrestle for the WHC on EIGHT consecutive PPVs. That's pretty ridiculous.

G-Fresh
April 24th, 2013, 6:09 PM
Is it possible that the crowd did the wave because they were enjoying the match and having fun as well?

Absolutely not.

Vice
April 24th, 2013, 6:33 PM
I like how they had combinations of Sheamus, Del Rio and Big Show wrestle for the WHC on EIGHT consecutive PPVs. That's pretty ridiculous.
Man, that reminds me of the WHC title scene in 2007, and it revolving around Batista.

Wrestlemania - lost the title to The Undertaker
Backlash - vs. Undertaker(c), draw
Judgment Day - vs. Edge(c), lost
One Night Stand - vs. Edge(c), lost
Vengeance - vs. Edge, lost
Great American Bash - vs. Khali(c) vs. Kane, lost
Summerslam - vs. Khali(c), won via DQ
Unforgiven - vs. Khali(c) vs. Rey, wins the title
No Mercy - vs. Khali, wins
Cyber Sunday - vs. Undertaker, wins
Survivor Series - vs. Undertaker, wins
Armageddon - vs. Undertaker vs. Edge, loses to Edge

That is not counting him being champion before Wrestlemania. Some of the matches were really great, but good lord. Variety, please.

Ringo
April 24th, 2013, 6:44 PM
Yeah, Taker got injured and the Edge feud was DULL. And then he got injured and Khali joined the party. I believe Rey was also injured until Summerslam. I tuned out around ONS time.

Then Batista just said fuck this at No Mercy and carried Khali to something memorable. I did like how Taker/Batista ended up spanning like a year though (opposing sides at No Way Out '07, started and finished the Chamber match at NWO '08) and was still exciting and awesome. A testament to how brilliantly they worked together.

mth
April 25th, 2013, 11:29 PM
Just watched RAW and have to say I thought it was quite good. A few unorganized thoughts:

I'll start at the end and say I really liked the Foley/Ryback confrontation. FOley was awesome as always but I was quite impressed and pleasantly surprised with how Ryback did. I thought he did the best mic work he's done yet and it did well in getting me to dig him as a heel now. The insults to Foley and the crowd were solid and the emotion was convincing. :yes: The stuff with The Shield and everything afterward was good, too. Nice to tease Cena returning the favor but then being the better man and helping out and I don't think it made Shield look weak to run from Cena+Ryback+chair after having already had a battle with the Bros. of Destruction/DB earlier. They're often put over as smart and there was no reason for them to hang around.

The six-man tag match was quite good. The ending was fine, too.

I liked the singles matches with Rhodes Scholars/Tons of Funk and I have to say, Sweet T is winning me over. Monkey flip! And I dig that goofy rolling senton into the corner.

Ziggler/Jericho was quite good.

I like Big E's theme. I like Big E's finisher. I like Big E. squashing Ryder.

REGAL! Very cool to have big Willie out there, what a man. Not too thrilled about Fandango using the massively overused reverse STO.

I am glad that Little Jimmy appears to be dead and I don't mind Truth getting a bit of a push (even more so because Little Jimmy's dead). As for yodeling Cesaro...yeah, I'm not keen on it but I don't think it's gonna kill him.

Opening segment with Trips/Heyman was kind of stupid (the lying/Pedigree bit seemed a little weird) but Heyman is brilliant so whatever.