Do we have too much Money in the Bank?

[Kyle_242]

Since I can see this debate going on for awhile in the theme thread, I figured I'd do my Rajah 2.42 duty and give it its own thread. I also think it's a topic worthy of discussion, even if I'm also 99% sure there was a thread on this awhile ago but fuck it.

So there's no question that there's been diminishing returns on MITB's interest (ha?), but is there a way to change that? Or now that titles are basically accessories, does it need to be changed at all? Hell, do we need MORE MITB!?

Discuss!

[Vice]

I made a thread about this a while ago. :cool:

New threads are good, though, and shit has changed since then.

Personally I'd love it if MITB fucked off for a few years. Or if it was changed to allow the winner to make a title match in advance (say, next PPV) instead of so many title changes via beating an already defeated champion.

[VHS]

Instead of having MITB be an annual thing we can come to expect, it should be brought back when we have a group of contenders that contest to deserving a title shot.

[turdpower]

I'd like it if someone did a title match (after having won a MITB match) like they used to do the hardcore title - while people were sleeping etc.

[kangus]

VHS, do you think you're really qualified to be talking about having too much money in the bank?

[Kyle_242]

Personally I'd love it if MITB fucked off for a few years. Or if it was changed to allow the winner to make a title match in advance (say, next PPV) instead of so many title changes via beating an already defeated champion.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Instead of this "can cash in at ANY TIME OMG HARDCORE TITLE" stipulation, make it so that it's only good for a legit title match that's declared in advance. Even if it's at the start of a PPV, for a match later in the same PPV, whatever. Anything to get away from that instant gratification scenario that worked with Edge but very few (if any) people after him.

I realize that takes away from that "will he or won't he?" anticipation at the end of every PPV title match, but that's a trade I'm willing to make.

[MOSHanTHRASHER]

I am on the same page with all of you in thinking MiTB has been played out. However, just look at how big a pop Dolph got when cashing the case in on Raw. That alone makes me believe WWE will not do anything different with the breefcase.

The one thing I think is nessecary is to only have one MiTB winner per year, no more of the brand split as there isn't a brand split anymore.

[chatty]

Knocking it down to one match would be nice. Theirs no brand split anymore and although their is still two belts make it for either one and you have a bit more to work with as their are two people for them to tease it over. I liked it better when it was a Mania but considering its prob been the best PPV they have for the last few years I'm happy enough to give it a pass.

[Mills]

Yes. You only need one MITB a year now, two dilutes it even further then it has been. FFS, when you have guys like Tensai in your MITB matches, its watered down too far. One match involving 6 of the top midcarders/upper card guys will make it worth while again

[Chris]

I think they need to freshen up the cash-in a bit - have it be done in more varied ways, as opposed to just capitalising on someone who is beat up or distracted. It's not always the best foundation for a title reign, especially someone's first title reign. But then it's up to WWE to actually keep the person relevant before the cash-in, and keep them looking strong afterwards, and they can be hit and miss at that.

[HHHnFoley_Rulez]

The MitB should allow you a title shot anywhere, any time. 24/7 WWE/World title match!

At the airport, at a childrens play area, out in the parking lot! Crash Holly could come back and.. oh..

[Mr_Nobody]

I agree. I think the Money in the Bank contest is a great match idea, although I think there should only be one, and they should put it back on Wrestlemania. I also think that the MiTB could cash it in on either champion (World or WWE). I have no problem with the sudden cash in, but I wouldn't mind them switching it up and having the person call their shot like RVD did.

I honestly thought that's what they were going to do with Dolph this year at Wrestlemania, where he cashes it in on Antonio, but announces he is cashing it in, so they have several weeks leading up to their big match.

[Mills]

See, i still love the cash in out of nowhere, makes it more interesting.

[chatty]

I'd like to see it cashed in to end a Mania or have a scenario where it's cashed in during the Rumble. Make it really mean something for once. Most cash ins have been on the B-title. I think theirs only Edge, RVD (when the concept was new) and Miz won the A title. ADR did too but it was during one of the biggest screw ups of a feud ever and it hurt him at the time. Obviously Cena lost his shot.

[Badger]

Now I have visions of the Mean Street Posse trying to cash in on a sleeping Cena.

[One Man Gang]

I just get tired of seeing guys win the big one via a sneaky cash in. Especially when it's their first major title win.

[Psycho666Soldier]

I'm on-board with the idea of just reducing it to one match/briefcase a year. That alone would solve so many problems, because otherwise you have to compensate for over-saturation. More pre-determined cash-ins for a full-on match would be nice, as RVD and recently Cena have done. It makes it just a glorified title shot, but it still means makes it more interesting than always seeing someone catch the champion when they are weakened.

However, if we were to do away with it altogether, or at least take away the annual aspect, I would be cool with those ideas, too.

[Kyle_242]

I just get tired of seeing guys win the big one via a sneaky cash in. Especially when it's their first major title win.

This. It just leads to the "is this guy a fluke who got lucky?" storyline that's now been beaten to death. It cheapens the guy, it cheapens the title, and is just plain counterproductive. The only one who embraced it and actually turned it into a gimmick was Edge, but he was also Edge.

What I do like is the briefcase itself. Carrying that thing around like a title is a fun little gimmick to give someone. Although people who do that with the blue one make me laugh a bit.

One briefcase would be perfect. Would lead to that much more tension after EVERY title match, too, assuming they kept that "cash in on the spot" stipulation.

[casselmm47]

Make it eligible for a cash-in for any singles title. Give someone a reason to want to be the IC or US champion, just as much as they would want to be the WWE or Heavyweight champ. Spread some of that prestige around so that those secondary titles mean something again.

[MOSHanTHRASHER]

I would love to see the next person who wins the MiTB making it their duty to be at ringside or on the ramp during every world title belt. Giving the feeling the man is focused and always looking for his big spot to "cash in".

[Anaconda Sniper]

Its a lot of fun but its getting kinda old. Maybe if they just did one that was for either title like it used to be.

[Kev]

I'd like it if they just used it at Wrestlemania for the lads that deserve to be on the show but the writers were too lazy to chuck into feuds and other matches (like Cesaro!).

[Kyle_242]

As much as I would LOVE for it to be a part of Mania again, Mania really doesn't need the draw. MITB is now a strong enough idea to have its own PPV, and they know that.

For me, it's not ideal, but I totally get why they do it and can't argue.

[Atty]

MITB isn't even the draw of the MITB PPV.


It should be a single match on Mania. Gives upper-midcard guys an important match to be in and is a nice change of pace for super cereal showdowns.

[The Rick]

you guys are shitting me right? We just had this...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRpdVFXRshQ

Without two cases last year Ziggler doesn't get shit. Cena was winning a case plain and simple. So buy the respose from the Ziggler cash-in I don't see how MITB is watered down at all. As long as the cash-ins are spread out, and booked well enough. Might it become watered down? Maybe, probably. But right now NO.

[Morrison]

Make it eligible for a cash-in for any singles title. Give someone a reason to want to be the IC or US champion, just as much as they would want to be the WWE or Heavyweight champ. Spread some of that prestige around so that those secondary titles mean something again.

this sounds lovely in theory, but makes zero sense.

[Newf]

you guys are shitting me right? We just had this...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRpdVFXRshQ

Without two cases last year Ziggler doesn't get shit. Cena was winning a case plain and simple. So buy the respose from the Ziggler cash-in I don't see how MITB is watered down at all. As long as the cash-ins are spread out, and booked well enough. Might it become watered down? Maybe, probably. But right now NO.


Without 2 cases we probably wouldn't have had Cena winning, though. Cena won cuz there was a case to spare AND it allowed them to cast some doubt and try to make us think that MITB isn't always a guaranteed title win, with Cena being about the only guy who could take the loss and not look weak himself.

[Atty]

If it was at Mania and only one case, Cena wouldn't have even been in the match!

[Morrison]

you guys are shitting me right? We just had this...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRpdVFXRshQ

Without two cases last year Ziggler doesn't get shit. Cena was winning a case plain and simple. So buy the respose from the Ziggler cash-in I don't see how MITB is watered down at all. As long as the cash-ins are spread out, and booked well enough. Might it become watered down? Maybe, probably. But right now NO.

just because a cash-in got a good response(from a smarked up, once or twice a year kinda crowd, to boot) doesn't mean the concept hasn't been diluted. it's fun for a shock and quick change of pace, but once that show ends, the excitement can die fast and be hard to maintain. who has really been elevated by the money in the bank? edge, daniel bryan and to some extent cm punk. it's the same process each time over.

[The Rick]

who has really been elevated by the money in the bank? edge, daniel bryan and to some extent cm punk. it's the same process each time over.

RVD, Del Rio, and Miz too. Kane seemed to be rejuvenated after his win. So besides Swager, and Kennedy everyone that has won it.

[Atty]

I'd actually strongly disagree with all of those except RVD. That is, before he fucked it up on his own.


ADR never became a star off of his cash-in. They had already given him a Rumble win that year, didn't take and they tried that to elevate him. It wasn't until he got over on his own and went face that he really broke through. And that was over a year after his MITB.


I would agree it rejuvenated Kane for awhile.

[The Rick]

I'd actually strongly disagree with all of those except RVD. That is, before he fucked it up on his own.


ADR never became a star off of his cash-in. They had already given him a Rumble win that year, didn't take and they tried that to elevate him. It wasn't until he got over on his own and went face that he really broke through. And that was over a year after his MITB.


I would agree it rejuvenated Kane for awhile.

Okay maybe not Del Rio, but Miz rode his all the way to Wrestlemania.

[Atty]

And where is he now?

Where was he even just over a month after his Mania main event win?

[The Rick]

And where is he now?

Where was he even just over a month after his Mania main event win?

Yea now, but at that time it elevated him after his cash-in(November 22) and it took him all the way to headlining Wrestlemania. I would say that is quite the career elevation. He didn't drop the title until May 1st.

[Atty]

He dropped it at the first PPV after Mania and was only won so they could set up Rock/Cena.

[Morrison]

Yea now, but at that time it elevated him after his cash-in(November 22) and it took him all the way to headlining Wrestlemania. I would say that is quite the career elevation. He didn't drop the title until May 1st.

his career was not elevated. it wasn't sustained. his career hit a peak because of a shock tactic. when i say 'elevated' i mean that winning it and cashing it in made them look credible and like a main eventer and kept them looking as such after their title win.

[The Rick]

his career was not elevated. it wasn't sustained. his career hit a peak because of a shock tactic. when i say 'elevated' i mean that winning it and cashing it in made them look credible and like a main eventer and kept them looking as such after their title win.

I'll give you not sustained portion. I still stand with the MITB not being over saturated yet. Beside it pushing the one guy that wins, it also seems to give a few guys a decent kick in the pants.

[The Law]

Yeah, the more I look at the Money in the Bank winnners the less I'm impressed by the results. Edge was definitely boosted by it, no doubt there. RVD got the boost of beating Cena, but that had little to do with his actual cash-in. It was the fact that he beat Cena in the main event of the ECW pay-per-view in front of a rabid crowd.

Kennedy obviously got nothing from his win. Edge's second cash-in was after he was already well-established as a main eventer. Punk's first win got him in the spotlight briefly, but he was right back in the midcard afterward. I think his second cash-in was actually big: it was the catalyst for his heel turn and the great feud with Hardy that established him in the main event. Swagger ended up being a jobber within a few months of his cash in. Miz was back where he started after he lost the title. Kane was rejuvinated by his win, but it was really his heel turn, feud with Undertaker, and evil character that got him going. Del Rio had already been heavily pushed, fell back down the card, and didn't truly establish himself as a main eventer until his recent face title run. Bryan was definitely helped by his win and cash in. Cena's was meaningless. Jury is still out on what happens with Ziggler.

So I basically feel like it had long-term benefits for Edge, Punk, Kane, and Bryan. Edge's win just totally worked with his character. Punk's win turned him heel. Bryan's win did the same thing. Kane is more ambiguous. RVD could have just gotten a title shot at One Night Stand and beaten Cena without the briefcase. The other ones would have been better off if they had just won the title legitimately.

[The Rick]

I don't think the Kennedy thing counts, because they had plans for him. He just screwed himself over with the "wellness" policy violation. That MITB went to Edge for his second cash-in, which I probably enjoyed more. I might be alone on that one.

[kangus]

One thing I wish they would do is give the MITB winner a coherent storyline after they win the briefcase. Like with Ziggler it just seemed to me for the longest time he was very directionless and I'm not going say it cheapened his win but I don't think they maximized the angle of Zigger as a MITB winner either. Like for example, If the MITB winner goes on an extended losing streak after earning the briefcase, start an angle where he begins ponder whether or not he's championship material and has to re-gain confidence in himself et cetera and eventually he works up the nerve to challenge for the title at a PPV. Whatever it is, I would just like to see a more thorough plan for these winners.

[Morrison]

One thing I wish they would do is give the MITB winner a coherent storyline after they win the briefcase. Like with Ziggler it just seemed to me for the longest time he was very directionless and I'm not going say it cheapened his win but I don't think they maximized the angle of Zigger as a MITB winner either. Like for example, If the MITB winner goes on an extended losing streak after earning the briefcase, start an angle where he begins ponder whether or not he's championship material and has to re-gain confidence in himself et cetera and eventually he works up the nerve to challenge for the title at a PPV. Whatever it is, I would just like to see a more thorough plan for these winners.
exactly. i GUESS the dolph cash-in was good. probably helped that the crowd was as crazy as it was. but i wasn't clamoring for him to cash in, because there was no real investment. far too many times it's just 'i'm the dude with the briefcase.'

[Atty]

I don't think the Kennedy thing counts, because they had plans for him. He just screwed himself over with the "wellness" policy violation. That MITB went to Edge for his second cash-in, which I probably enjoyed more. I might be alone on that one.

Wellness policy didn't exist yet. Benoit was very much alive.

[Kyle_242]

Kennedy obviously got nothing from his win. Edge's second cash-in was after he was already well-established as a main eventer. Punk's first win got him in the spotlight briefly, but he was right back in the midcard afterward. I think his second cash-in was actually big: it was the catalyst for his heel turn and the great feud with Hardy that established him in the main event. Swagger ended up being a jobber within a few months of his cash in. Miz was back where he started after he lost the title. Kane was rejuvinated by his win, but it was really his heel turn, feud with Undertaker, and evil character that got him going. Del Rio had already been heavily pushed, fell back down the card, and didn't truly establish himself as a main eventer until his recent face title run. Bryan was definitely helped by his win and cash in. Cena's was meaningless. Jury is still out on what happens with Ziggler.

So I basically feel like it had long-term benefits for Edge, Punk, Kane, and Bryan. Edge's win just totally worked with his character. Punk's win turned him heel. Bryan's win did the same thing. Kane is more ambiguous. RVD could have just gotten a title shot at One Night Stand and beaten Cena without the briefcase. The other ones would have been better off if they had just won the title legitimately.

That's a pretty good breakdown. What I take from that is that it sometimes works, and it sometimes doesn't. It sort of sounds like booking feuds. Let's say that they replace the briefcase with the creative team, I dunno, coming up with some sort of reason for them to challenge for the title, those guys are probably better off, yeah?

I never really looked at it this way, but are the briefcases just lazy MacGuffin devices?

[kangus]

NEW IDEA: Give every wrestler in the company a MITB briefcase. Hilarity ensues.

[Kyle_242]

OR give one wrestler all the briefcases.

[kangus]

Listen Kyle_242, I'm not going to sit here idly while you spout your elitist paradigm of briefcase distribution. I don't know what goes on in the ivory tower you live in but down here on the streets we believe in equality. No person should be without a briefcase.

[Kyle_242]

Uhh it's obviously a briefcase tower.

[kangus]

Well I think we can both agree that regardless of who has the briefcase, they need to start making more money in the bank related puns in their promos.

[Kyle_242]

That's advice you can take to the bank.

[Bluegunn]

I did like only having one briefcase, now it is kind of like having two Royal Rumbles or having the runner up get the other title shot at Mania. (Which has happened a few times.)

[Kev]

I did like only having one briefcase, now it is kind of like having two Royal Rumbles or having the runner up get the other title shot at Mania. (Which has happened a few times.)

Really? The only one I remember was the one that Guerrero won back in '04 and it was for a title shot at No Way Out... Not saying you're wrong but I suppose that's really been the only one that's been memorable to me.

Was a great little match too :)

[Brian M.]

I personally love Money In The Bank and think it keeps the title scene fresh whenever there is a briefcase holder around threatening to cash in. I can understand people being sick of the "preying on the injured" surprise cash in approach, but I'm not sure what can be done to fix it. If you call your shot ahead of time you'd look like a fucking rube after what happened to Cena this year.

One idea I've always had for a face cash in is for them to call for their title match when the champion is out cutting a promo in their street clothes. That way it's not TOO cheap, the heel has been hopefully making the fans hate him for the last few minutes, and the briefcase holder doesn't look like a complete moron. Perhaps even better would be if the champion is attacking a helpless victim, the briefcase holder comes in to help and does damage to the champion in the fracas then decides to cash in immediately.

Now that I think of it there are a few ways they could make this more interesting. MITB FOREVER~!

On a side note I feel like Ziggler's cash in worked because his character is somewhat similar to Edge's in that they are obviously talented performers but they are also slimy, opportunistic twats who will do whatever it takes to win. I don't think it's a bad thing that Ziggler doesn't win many matches cleanly. Heels like him really shouldn't be doing that.

[JP]

MitB is the best thing they've come up with since HiaC.

While I enjoyed it being part of WM creating a ppv for the concept was a master stroke and having the two briefcases just adds to the possibilities. They've used it almost perfectly so far and long may it continue.

[Bluegunn]

Really? The only one I remember was the one that Guerrero won back in '04 and it was for a title shot at No Way Out... Not saying you're wrong but I suppose that's really been the only one that's been memorable to me.

Was a great little match too :)

I was talking about the runner up going on to Wrestlemania for the other title happening a few times (after they earned it of course).

[Ringo]

Agree that it would be nice for them to change things up a bit next time. So far we've had Cena fail after arranging a proper match and RVD succeed after doing the same. The Kennedy idea of waiting until the following year's Mania was cool but he got injured. Aside from those, every cash-in has been successfully capitalising on a fallen opponent after an injury or long match.

Just so happens that Ziggler's cash-in was one of the best they've done but I'd like to see at least one of this year's winners handled differently. Also agree that although the cash-ins make for good moments, it does result in wrestlers only winning their first title in this way. Gradually building wrestlers up probably does a better job of establishing them and allowing everyone to gauge just how suitable they are for a main event spot. The three wrestlers on the roster I can think of who have had world title reigns before being relegated back to the midcard (Miz, Swagger, Bryan) all became champions after cashing in. Punk cashed in twice but only really looked the part the second time (and arguably only became a genuine star with the pipe-bomb promo). Del Rio's first reign wasn't particularly successful either and only moved up after a sustained push.

[Atty]

Cena's failure really should have been an actual loss.

This is getting away from MITB, but they missed so many opportunities after his loss to Rock to make it his "worst year ever." Brock beating him, him cleanly losing his cash in to Punk and so forth could have all built that story so that it meant more when he finally won the Rumble and beat Rock.

Really, I'd have loved for Cena to lose a time or two after winning MITB, get fed up and try to cash in cheaply with Punk down and out, only to eat a GTS and quick pin. Would have been brilliant for the overall story arch.

[Kdestiny]

Cena's failure really should have been an actual loss.

This is getting away from MITB, but they missed so many opportunities after his loss to Rock to make it his "worst year ever." Brock beating him, him cleanly losing his cash in to Punk and so forth could have all built that story so that it meant more when he finally won the Rumble and beat Rock.

Really, I'd have loved for Cena to lose a time or two after winning MITB, get fed up and try to cash in cheaply with Punk down and out, only to eat a GTS and quick pin. Would have been brilliant for the overall story arch.

This would have led to a change in Cena which would give him more of an edge that WWE seems to be afraid to give us anymore.

Brilliant, but a huge missed opportunity

[Andy]

Don't get me started on that, does my head in.

Imagine how much better everything would be if Lesnar beat the shit out of him and pinned him at Extreme Rules, lost to Laurinaitis, lost to Big Show, won MITB but lost at Raw 1000 after being distracted (not attacked), lost the triple threat championship match after that, couldn't get the job done against Punk at Night of Champions, injured at HIAC, lost another triple threat for the title, loses to Ziggler and has AJ betray him.

Then you have the momentum building up to the Rumble starting with that great Raw match against Ziggler. Then the match against Punk is even more significant and the feud with Rock even more significant.

And it all started with him pinning Lesnar after taking a beating. Fuck that decision. Fuck it up the ass.

[Atty]

Don't get me started on that, does my head in.

Imagine how much better everything would be if Lesnar beat the shit out of him and pinned him at Extreme Rules, lost to Laurinaitis, lost to Big Show, won MITB but lost at Raw 1000 after being distracted (not attacked), lost the triple threat championship match after that, couldn't get the job done against Punk at Night of Champions, injured at HIAC, lost another triple threat for the title, loses to Ziggler and has AJ betray him.

Then you have the momentum building up to the Rumble starting with that great Raw match against Ziggler. Then the match against Punk is even more significant and the feud with Rock even more significant.

And it all started with him pinning Lesnar after taking a beating. Fuck that decision. Fuck it up the ass.

The Night of Champions match with Punk would have been so much more brilliant if they were actually doing the "year of hell" story. Just when he thinks he's finally won, his shoulders were down. Makes me mad that they didn't run that.

[Kyle_242]

I do think it's funny that a bad year for Cena is like the greatest year possible for anyone else.

Hell, I'm not even sure it was Cena's worst year.

[Zacharie]

I like the MITB briefcases. I just think it's a waste to give it to main event guys because they're already getting a ton of opportunities. Guys like Cena, Kane, Orton, and Punk just don't need it anymore. Have them just challenge/cheat their way to the title or win the Rumble.

So I would have MITB focus on the midcarders more. It gives guys who you wouldn't expect to win the belt a big advantage, and that's cool to see. Nobody would expect Kingston to win a singles match vs. Cena... but have him cash-in after a beat down and you have something more believable.

[Kyle_242]

Here's the thing I never understood though. Why have a mechanism for putting the belt on guys who aren't ready to carry the belt? If they were ready for that role, they'd be working at that level in the card, right?

It also bugs me when guys like Dolph cash in to win their first major title (I don't count his 20-second reign). That should be a moment of triumph after a hard-fought match, not a cheap cash-in gimmick. We always complain about the championship's deteriorating worth, and that's just something that I've come to accept, but putting in this dynamic that belongs in a party game really isn't helping.

[Kneeneighbor]

The reason is the suspense. Asking if he will cash in. I was super excited the night he came out to cash and Ricardo ended up stealing the briefcase and running off.

[chatty]

Some of the build are lacking as well. As said with cena they should have burried him on PPV making the comeback even better, because Cena no sells everything it makes it worse. He's was pretty much like 'yeah I've had a crap year by my standards but I've won the Rumble so I'm back now' and it just comes across half arsed. They should have built ut so that Cena doubted himself, got pissed off, got upset and then had to fight even harder to get back to his spot. Instead it just came across as if he didn't really give a shit and no one cared when he won either the Rumble or the belt back.

With Punk, at around SS they should have been painting a target on his back, who is going to beat him, really emphasize how he's taken the title and no one ha been able to take it off him, when he was on for the record they should have amped up the chase to stop him before he broke it. That way he would have looked absolutely amazing, I also would have had him beat Rock at Rumble and then give him the belt at EC, that way when rock had finally beat him he would have looked better and then Cena would have also looked better when he beat the Rock.

Simply things that would have made them all look so much better, achieve where they wanted to go and been better TV instead of all ending pretty much meh.