Hannibal

[BBF]

Explores the early relationship between the renowned psychiatrist and his patient, a young FBI criminal profiler, who is haunted by his ability to empathize with serial killers.

Premiered last night in the States. Did anyone watch?

Looks pretty good to me, will be watching tonight and expecting good things. Obviously comparisons will be drawn to Dexter and the films themselves but I'm hoping for something fresh.

[The_Mike]

I liked it for the most part. Good cast, slick shooting, but I hope we swiftly move away from fetishising dead young women and have a bit more variety in killers. Enough TV shows are obsessed with every victim being a hot college student, but the killers in the Harris novels had a much broader taste. I'm also a little leery of the characterisation of Lecter. Mikkelson's performance is fine, but the character seems to have been written to be rather blunt and isolated, whereas the Lecter of the films and books was a very charming and charismatic figure who easily drew people toward him. I get the show wants to chart its own course, but it doesn't quite feel right that Lecter seems to be yet another gifted Aspie, particularly when Will Graham has essentially the same qualities.

It's only the first episode, though, so perhaps in time we'll see them become a lot more distinct. Or maybe the point is supposed to be that they are both two sides of the same coin, but I worry the latter idea will get dull if drawn out too much. I just wonder how long NBC will get away with it. I've never seen that much blood in a US show not on HBO or Showtime. Normally the censors get a bit freaked out over that sort of thing, though at least there wasn't something as ghastly as female nipples.

[Mik]

I heard that this is explosive and Mads is tremendous. Anyone keeping up with this?

[Mr_Nobody]

Just finished with the second episode. I wouldn't compare it to Dexter at all. If anything, I compare it more to Criminal Minds...if one of the team was a serial killer.

The cast is pretty good, even right down to the smaller characters, and this week's serial killer was very interesting, especially with how he killed them. My only concern is how long can the series go with the suspension of disbelief that the FBI have a serial killer working for them and they don't ever realize it without looking completely stupid and incompetent.

[The_Mike]

I heard that this is explosive and Mads is tremendous. Anyone keeping up with this?

I don't know if I'd call him tremendous. He's good, a real presence, but at the same time his utter coldness is rather off-putting. I may just be too hung up on Hopkins' Hannibal, but Mikkelson offers no warmth or charm, and I always felt it was how charming and magnetic Hannibal was that made him the most frightening and dangerous. Mikkelson comes off as, dare I say it, a Bond villain. We've only had two episodes, though, and Lecter is feeling out his patient who is the kind of guy who could easily unravel what Hannibal has been up to, so maybe he is just being reserved to begin with. Hopefully things will open up more, but so far he seems kind of like a stock creep played well.

The rest of the show is pretty good, though, and I enjoy the new take on Will Graham. He's gifted, yet vulnerable, and for once we get a lead character who isn't simply a superman with one manageable flaw. Already we see that he has issues, and despite his gifts at tracking killers.... (minor spoiler)

he can't shoot for shit. At last, a lead in a police procedural who isn't a badass.

It's pretty shocking what NBC is letting them get away with, too, even at 10 at night. I imagine if they dared show a nipple they'd be yanked off the air immediately, but even for US TV there's a lot of blood and they pull no punches on the violence. Beautiful cinematography, though, every scene just looks clear and dreamlike at the same time, which probably makes no sense but it's the best way I can think of to describe the aesthetic.

[Judas Iscariot]

Watched both episodes.

Pretty much re-read The_Mike's posts if you care what I think about it.

I am pretty damn shocked at the level of blood NBC is letting them get away with. Parts of the first two episodes were gorier than some Walking Dead episodes.

[Ringo]

Mads Mikkelsen is probably my favourite actor in the world so I'm keen to watch simply for him. Got the first episode downloaded and will report back!

[Vice]

I'm enjoying the show a lot, and there's some really great stuff in it. Acting is top notch, Mikkelson is awesome, shot extremely well, etc.

But yeah, as of right now, if you gave everyone different names I probably would not ever think it's a show about Hannibal. And if someone compared it to Hannibal, I'd probably shoot it down. Only 2 episodes in, though, so who knows what will happen.

Will definitely keep watching.

Is anyone else having trouble understanding Mikkelson from time to time? There's at least like two lines per episode that have me rewinding because of his accent and tone. Maybe it's just me.

[BBF]

Its not just you. I'm obviously having to find streams of this at the moment and I thought it was just a quiet stream but he does seem to...not mumble...but he's hard to understand at times.

Liking it so far. Agree its nothing like Dexter having now watched it but its a great show. Lots of potential.

As Vice says though nothing like Lecter as we know him but thats not necessarily a bad thing.

[Judas Iscariot]

Is anyone else having trouble understanding Mikkelson from time to time? There's at least like two lines per episode that have me rewinding because of his accent and tone. Maybe it's just me.



Yeah, sometimes it's a little tricky. It's a lot easier to understand him in this than in Valhalla Rising, though.

[The_Mike]

As Vice says though nothing like Lecter as we know him but thats not necessarily a bad thing.

I worry that it almost necessarily is a bad thing. I don't want the TV series to feel like it has to stick strictly to the Lecter of the films or books, but if the guy isn't charming and just comes off as sinister from the get-go, what's the purpose of the show? "Look at this scary cannibal, isn't he a scary cannibal?" Unless the real purpose of the show is to explore Will Graham and his attempts to not end up like the killers he empathises with, with Lecter being just a supporting character, but then why call it Hannibal other than for a cheap ratings ploy?

That sounds kind of harsh, especially with only two episodes done. I don't mean to imply that there cannot be any other interpretation of Hannibal that is worthwhile, but I just find it hard to imagine what they are trying to accomplish here.

I had no issue understanding Hannibal's voice myself, but I have read a lot of people bringing that up as an issue.

[The_Mike]

Another episode in, and while I am entertained I'm still concerned about the sustainability of the show. For such a slick, good looking show, it lacks any subtlety whatsoever. Lecter's just a blatant creep, lacking any charm or sophistication, and we're only on the third episode before somebody figures out and states outright he's a serial killer. I like that we're getting a sustained story rather than a killer of the week kind of deal, but the main draw of the show seems to be more of a detriment somehow.

Also, it kind of says a lot about American TV that we can have oceans of blood and people's throats slit fully on camera, but when you get a front-facing shot of a mangled corpse mounted on a pair of antlers, she better have a bra and panties on. Obviously you just can't have nudity on US TV unless you carefully edit around it (like last week), but given the nature of this show the double standard seems all the more stark.

[The Law]

I'm really enjoying this show. My biggest curiosity is the timeline. How much of the books are they going to cover? I could see something like this, if this show were to be a long-runner:

Season 1: Searching for killers with Hannibal
Season 2: Will gets suspicious, catches Hannibal at the end of the season ("Red Dragon" prequel)
Season 3: "Red Dragon (Will brought out of retirement to chase Francis Dollarhyde, uses Hannibal for assistance)
Season 4: "Silence of the Lambs" (Will Graham gone, Clarice Starling hunts for Buffalo Bill)
Season 5: "Hannibal" (Clarice Starling hunts for escaped Hannibal while Mason Verger pursues him)

That would be a solid five season run. I don't really think any television show should run for more than five seasons because almost no show has been able to maintain quality for longer than that.

[The_Mike]

The credits say "based upon characters from the Thomas Harris novel 'Red Dragon'" and from the promotional material I was always under the impression that the whole series, or at the very least season one, was meant to be essentially a retelling of Red Dragon. I like your idea much more, but I find it hard to envision 5 years of this rendition of Hannibal Lecter. They're going to really need to give Mikkelson a lot more to work with for the character to be worth watching for anything near that length of time.

I'm trying to think shows that maintained their quality for more than five seasons, and I am struggling. Most I can come up with didn't have five consecutive seasons of high quality, even if they may have had six or seven total. The only one I can think of to have six good seasons straight is House, and they still screwed that up toward the end. I do wish TV shows would take a page from Babylon 5's book and just tell their story and be done with it. It's painful watching a popular show linger on well after it has said all it can say, just churning out episodes because it makes money. That's the nature of TV, I guess, but when you get invested in stories and characters it would be nice to see things resolved rather than just keep on the treadmill until the network gives up on it and you get a slapped together finale with a handful of cameos.

[Canuck]

Just catching up on this. What's the scoop on episode 4? It's being aired outside America, but only webisodes for now? Is it ok to skip on to the 5th then? Bit of an odd move for a show trying to make it's name.

[The_Mike]

I didn't notice episode 4 had not been aired and we skipped to 5. Just did a quick google search and apparently 4 was skipped because of sensitivity concerns over the Boston Marathon bombing. Sigh. So sick of this mawkish pandering from networks who are oh so concerned about people's feelings only when it is politically awkward. Like they give a shit if anybody is upset by a storyline reminding them of their real life pain. And they shouldn't: this is art. If "they hate us for our freedoms" the first thing you shouldn't do is start censoring TV. I know it's only TV, but here's the thing: it's only TV. Cutting episodes out of a TV series isn't going to bring anybody back or reattach their legs.

And yet another reason to pirate. If I was torrenting this instead of being a good boy, I'd have seen all the episodes. TV networks seem determined to make playing by the rules the worst way to watch.

On the bright side, episode 5 (the 4th to air) was actually pretty good. Hannibal is starting to loosen up and is demonstrating a modicum of the charm and sophistication we're used to, though he did kind of sabotage himself by smelling people. He's still an enormous creep, but he's getting better, and the whole show is starting to gel quite well. I wonder if they edited the episode a little, because I really could not tell that we had missed one.

EDIT: According to Wikipedia, episode 4 was actually pulled at the request of Fuller because he suddenly decided it was too sensitive as it revolved around children being radicalised/brainwashed and killing their former families. He insists it's nothing to do with the Boston Marathon bombing but "the current social climate", which I'm pretty sure is bullshit, but it's a bit more nuanced than I previously suspected. Still, not a fan of censorship, not even self-censorship. And something doesn't add up. How do you write, direct, shoot and edit together an episode then decide at the very last moment "oh wait that's a bit too much"?

[Judas Iscariot]

So that was the fifth episode then? It seemed to be a little bit awkward continuity-wise.

[The_Mike]

That's right. Episode Six airs tonight (reviews from international markets suggest it will be pretty good too). Episode Four will not air in the United States, ever. Probably not in Canada either. It is available on iTunes though, and aired in international markets. Having seen it now, I don't really get it.

The only reason I can imagine them not wanting to air it is if they were embarrassed at how hamfisted the ending was. There's one headshot and a few corpses lying around but this is probably the tamest episode so far in terms of violence, and the whole brainwashed children angle is dealt with off-screen aside from one split-second of a kid raising a gun. I've seen episodes of Quantum Leap that are more troubling. I guess because shot children are among the corpses found (their shootings are never shown, their bodies only briefly and their faces are covered) this is seen as hitting too close to home due to Sandy Hook, but that's a pretty big stretch and it's difficult to use that excuse when Fuller didn't want to pull the episode until the very last minute. I do believe this season was shot quite some time ago, but he had plenty of time to figure something out if he was squeamish, and the US has had plenty of time (and plenty of other tragedies) to not get gun-shy about dead fictional kids on TV. It's not a nice subject, but if you are going to make your money writing and airing shows about serial killers mounting women on antlers, spare me the righteous hand-wringing.

It's actually a pretty poor episode. Hannibal gets Abigail high for no apparent reason, then lets the other psychologist yell at him and stares at his shoes. Who is this guy? Crawford is even more of an insensitive dick to Will for no good reason, and his wife just comes across as pointlessly moody (though obviously we now know what that's about). Everyone's kind of annoying and weird, while the plot just seems to wait for the next clue to magically appear off-screen, until finally the FBI know exactly where the killer is and show up literally in the nick of time because reasons.

The webisodes are enough here, I wouldn't bother paying for the episode itself.

[The_Mike]

Much, much better episode this week. Business has picked up. Great to see Dr. Chilton again.

[Vice]

The most recent episode, with the opera scene at the beginning..

Anyone know the name of that song? It's gorgeous.

[The_Mike]

No idea, I'm afraid, but it was a beautiful song in another great episode. The show seems to be finally hitting its stride, and while Hannibal remains a bit of a creeper, he's actually showing some charm and flair. Also, Scully!!

So with things going well, I expect it to be cancelled within a fortnight.

[Vice]

Found it. :cool:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8q-8wwmBS8

Well.. ish. I don't know the exact composition/singer they used for the episode, but that's the song.

[The_Mike]

Another great episode this week. Looks like they are really starting to get comfortable with the show and its characters. Hannibal's finally warmed up and actually displays a level of vulnerability that is a very interesting direction to take him.

[Rip]

I've only watched the first one, I'm assuming it gets better because I didn't like it much at all, it seemed to be trying way to hard to be clever and the central characters all seemed dislikeable to an uncomfortable degree.

[The_Mike]

The first two or three episodes are pretty rough, everyone seems very cold and stiff and some characters like Crawford and Lecter just seem to be trying to make people uncomfortable. Since then things have really started to gel, though.

[The Law]

I thought last night's episode was a little too much in terms of action. Having the killer whack two cops and then show up at Hannibal's place to fight him to the death seemed a bit over the top. Also, it's unclear why Hannibal is a trained martial artist. I didn't like that episode quite as much as some of the others, but it was still quite good. I'm really hoping this show survives. The ratings are iffy, but NBC has so little going for it right now that they might keep it around.

[Vice]

Also, it's unclear why Hannibal is a trained martial artist.
Eh? I actually didn't get martial arts from him at all. He spent a lot of time getting his ass kicked there, and was fighting for his life. Like, stabbing the guy with his pen, tackling him, etc. He had a few very precise strikes, but I'd almost say that's just him using his knowledge. He's a former doctor, so he clearly knows anatomy, so he knows where to strike to get the most bang for his buck. And as a killer, he's surely learned a few things over the years, even if it's self-taught through trial and error.

[The_Mike]

I thought the same. The guy he was fighting was clearly invoking some martial arts, but Hannibal just seemed to be fighting dirty. He's not a big man so presumably he has learned to take care of himself to some degree so that he can handle victims that fight back, and as Vice said, his knowledge of anatomy was put to use when he struck at weak points at opportune times. I do think that much action is bound to draw attention, though, and surely Hannibal can't keep getting found at the scene of murders without it starting to look really weird to the FBI?

What's the spoiler policy in here, as it happens? I think some places are getting the show a day before the US, and the US a little before the UK, so I don't want to say too much without tags, though we've kind of blown the lid off much of the episode's goings on already. Still...

I find it curious that Hannibal covered his hands in a cloth before smacking Tobias with a statue, but did not cover his hands at all before snapping Franklin's neck. The statue thing could simply have been put down to self-defence, which it essentially was, and Hannibal didn't even pretend to the FBI that Tobias' death had been accidental when asked if he killed him. But Franklin's neck is going to show his fingerprints, and the pressure he would have put on the guy's neck will leave pretty clear evidence that Lecter was his killer. Smacking Tobias with a statue in desperation he could get away with, but how is he going to explain breaking his patient's neck? I would call it a plot hole except the show seems to have set this up quite deliberately by going to the trouble of having Hannibal use a cloth. It's very strange.

Hannibal and Scully seem to be getting along well, which is ironic since Scully was originally intended to be a riff on Clarice Starling. Wish I could remember what Gillian Anderson's character's actual name was, but it's great to see her on TV again, in what I imagine will be a pivotal role. Anyway, it seems heavily implied that Lecter killed the patient who attacked her, and I get the sense she kind of suspects that he did it. I'm not sure about his motivation, though. Bryan Fuller has said we will see Lecter involved in a romantic relationship, and my guess is this is where it's going to start, but this episode in particular screams to me that Lecter actually has a thing for Will Graham. I imagine that will get them booted off the network far quicker than the buckets of blood they have spilled so far, but Lecter does seem to be quite protective of him, as well as drawn to him as far more than just a curiosity. He also keeps feeding him, and we all know the route to a man's heart is through his stomach. Call me mad, but I think there's more to Hannibal and Will's relationship than a psychopath who is clinically intrigued by his polar opposite.

[Rip]

The first two or three episodes are pretty rough, everyone seems very cold and stiff and some characters like Crawford and Lecter just seem to be trying to make people uncomfortable. Since then things have really started to gel, though.

I'll give it another few then, got them all taped.

[The_Mike]

I'm seriously starting to think Hannibal wants to bromance Will and set up a house with Abigail as their adopted daughter. I wouldn't mind that either. This show is going to some strange places, though, and seems to be in an incredible rush for something Fuller claims to envision lasting five years.

Unfortunately the NBC ratings dropped last night despite no significant competition, and they were already really low, so I do not see NBC renewing it. The good news is NBC only airs it, and enough foreign markets are buying the show that the production company looks likely to be able to get at least season 2 done. Amazon reportedly wants it for streaming.

[Judas Iscariot]

Creator also says the way the season ends, fans will be screwed if there's no second season. Here's hoping against hope it gets renewed.

[The Law]

Word just broke about 30 minutes ago that it's been renewed. Great news. The ratings haven't been good, but I don't think NBC can afford to can a show that's actually getting good reviews. There's a decent possibility this will develop a following on DVD between seasons and come back with a bigger audience.

[The_Mike]

Great news. I'm loving it now, though the occasional creative decision still leaves me utterly baffled.

Too many people have found out Hannibal's secret way too quickly (not to mention with tremendous ease), and now he has already corrupted Will in the blink of an eye by getting him to go along with lying about Abigail killing somebody. Something I really liked about Red Dragon, the book and the film, was that Graham had absolutely no reason to suspect Lecter until the puzzle pieces fell into place all at once. He was shocked and hurt, and Lecter was somewhat reluctant to kill him because they had formed something of a friendship, and there was a tension there based on the idea that Graham thought like a ruthless killer and Hannibal had to act like one to get rid of him. Now we're still in the first season and Will Graham knows that Hannibal is capable of taking a life and willing to lie to cover up a killing. It feels like Hannibal is revealing himself way too fast to maintain his air of mystery, and often the editing and camerawork can be extremely unsubtle with implying he's a scary monster. I don't see how they can string this out for much longer until it's just absurd that nobody has caught him yet. He's daft enough to be followed to his crime scenes and to even kill somebody in their office with the door wide open. They're seriously undermining his mystique by implying he is actually kind of a pretentious idiot.

I'm also not a fan of Hannibal randomly getting another doctor to completely urinate all over medical ethics and lie to Will about his encephalitis. Hannibal was always cultured, refined and polite, but in this series he is sometimes portrayed as a curious manchild who sees other people as toys and has no problem playing with them, even if he's blatantly going to get caught. His altercation with Dr. Bloom a few episodes ago was really weird, because Hannibal essentially invited it, yet the writers felt it really necessary to drop the line "Hannibal, that was rude" to remind us that Hannibal is supposed to be the one who cannot abide impolite behaviour. It's like they are trying to make two Hannibal Lecters at once, which kind of makes sense because he was supposed to be a wolf in sheep's clothing, but they never seem to get the two to gel with one another. Sometimes he's refined and cautious, sometimes he's plain reckless and boorish, and we jump between these traits even in the same conversation as the plot demands.

That's two whole paragraphs of complaining, but I still really enjoy the show. When Hannibal is on form he is captivating, and that's been increasingly the case after the first three or so episodes. Will Graham and his madness are fascinating and portrayed well. Agent Scully is just awesome, and Crawford is getting more interesting as he seems to slowly realise how out of his depth he is. It's a beautiful show too, I cannot praise the cinematography enough, and it has a unique quality to the image that allows me to know from any still that this is Hannibal. I'm really glad NBC are going to keep it around for another season, network TV needs something different and challenging. It has problems, but it is starting to really find its feet.

[Vice]

Hannibal got followed to the crime scene and got caught because the door was open.. but I thought it was intentional. He wanted the doctor dead, so he killed him. If he didn't get followed, I don't think he would have been able to pin it on her. The scissors wouldn't have had that decaying DNA on them, and there wouldn't be any real traces of her being there. So, get her to follow him. Leave the door open so she can find him easily. When he got caught, he smelled her in the room, and I thought he had an "aaaaah, there you are..." way of handling it all. Then casually walks over and places the murder weapon in her hand before even more casually leaving the scene.

Yeah he very much implied that he hopes she can't identify him if she gets better, but right now all fingers are definitely pointed at her as the killer.

And while this may be (or at least sound like) a bit of a cop-out, it's very possible that Hannibal does his kills slightly out of character knowing that Will can "become" the killer to figure out who has done it. If he kills them in a perfect, refined Hannibal way, Will might be more suspicious of him. But I dunno. I'm still enjoying it all.

[The_Mike]

Brilliant point, Vice. It would tie up the loose end of Will's neurologist mysteriously being murdered if Hannibal set up another known killer to take the fall, so your idea that he was letting him follow her makes a lot of sense. I should probably have thought of that. The out-of-character kills I think is likely happening; he already killed in a pretty amateurish way on purpose as the copycat of the Minnesota Shrike, but he does seem to have made some odd mistakes like getting followed by Tobias. Still, it's clearly not as bad as I previously thought.

[The_Mike]

Speaking of that whole thing about Hannibal and the neurologist...

Somebody on IMDB explained it thusly:

Dr. Sutcliffe argued that the pork dish he was being served was only considered superior to other cuts of pork due to positive psychological reinforcement. This offended Hannibal's culinary world view, so he had to die.

Obvious.

I'm sure it was tongue in cheek, but actually, if Hannibal turns out to be such a drama queen, I wouldn't mind the series going in that direction. The character is already a radical departure from Hopkins' performance and Harris' portrayal, so let's just go mental with it.

[The Law]

Yeah, if I had one complain about this show it would be that it seems like everyone should be able to figure out that Hannibal is a serial killer. He acts in an exceedingly creepy, charmless way. He's constantly involved in the crimes (one of the killers happens to come to his office, murder his patient, and is then killed by Hannibal in self-defense). Several people have already caught on to him. And Will knows that he helped the girl kill the guy and hide the body. There comes a point where it destroys the credibility of the profilers that they have such an obvious suspect and don't see it.

But this is my favorite new show of this season. It really is a treat to watch such a cerebral, thoughtful show. The show is genuinely scary and creepy without relying too much on gore. I think they do a great job of getting us inside Will's head by confusing us about what is real and what he's imagining. I think they need to flesh out the supporting cast beyond Crawford next season, but other than that the show is doing well to this point.

[The_Mike]

Another good episode, with more of the same caveats. Hannibal is constantly taking enormous risks, and again anyone not a member of the FBI seems to spot his secret a mile off, which they really should because he's such a blatant creeper. Yet he and the show remain magnetic and captivating. Will Graham's descent into madness is fascinating to behold. I hear the season finale will be 'big' and somehow game changing in some respect but I'm not sure how much more mileage they can get out of the series at its current pace.

[The_Mike]

This show is getting a bit weird now.

Gillian Anderson randomly turned her English accent up to 11 in the middle of a scene. For a show with such beautiful cinematography and high production values, this was just a bizarrely jarring moment that seemed like somebody edited in a blooper by mistake. And of course she knows Hannibal's a killer because everybody seems to know that Hannibal's a killer. I thought the entire point of the show was to be about Hannibal hiding in plain sight, but he makes no real effort to hide at all and it is simply narrative convenience that has kept him out of jail at this point. Either that or his magical ability to surround himself with investigators too stupid to look at CCTV footage. How does a guy slip in to the dangerous oxygen-filled chamber of a woman wanted for two murders without either a guard or a camera spotting him? The result of such lax security could be explosive oh wait it exploded.

Abigail seemed shocked to discover what she already said she knew several episodes earlier, that Lecter's a serial killer. Well, she might not have quite known the 'serial' part but she pegged him for a stone cold killer in about five minutes. So now Hannibal is sad because he'll have to kill her, but at least he gives her a cuddle first. What? She has had dirt on him since the beginning but now he decides it is time to get rid of her, right as he demonstrates that he cares for her. This is somewhat understandable as she's a little more dangerous now Will is connecting the dots, but Will is doing that because Hannibal has been a complete idiot who has practically drawn a diagram for him. And with Will, Hannibal calls him a friend and insists he is loyal to him, but he's been wrecking his life and setting him up to look like a deranged killer for weeks. I get that he's meant to be a sociopath (except he's plainly not, he cares about several people deeply) and acting out of self-preservation, but he has been putting himself at risk for no reason and screwing around with people he cares about for no reason, at least as far as I can see. There's one more episode left but I worry that it won't be enough time to explore Hannibal's motivation properly.

I find the show entertaining and some scenes are just terrific to behold, but as an overall narrative it seems to have broken down into incoherence, mostly because characters have no clear motivation to be doing what they are doing or to be as stupid as they all apparently are.

[The_Mike]

Well, that's the end of the season. I look forward to it coming back, but I hope they get their shit together a bit better with the writing.

The big revelation of Will Graham finally putting the puzzle together and figuring out Hannibal was the killer, which has basically been what the entire season has been driving towards, was an incoherent mess. He just guessed at random in the middle of zany hallucinations, and there was no real moment of everything clicking. Will's whole character is about putting together the evidence and we see through him what happened, but with Hannibal he just sort of went "oh wait it was you on the phone, hey you're a stag, I'll shoot you now".

I was honestly ready to say so long to the show, then they had that final scene which was just beautiful. Absolutely pitch perfect ending. Even if the writing is haphazard at times, this is an extraordinary TV show to watch.

[Judas Iscariot]

I just decided to watch the next to last episode and was like FUCK I have to watch the finale.

I'm so glad this show is coming back. The last two episodes just brought things back around so well in my eyes, but it felt like they were meandering so much.

It really is one of the most beautifully shot shows I've ever seen.

I hope they take more time to focus the narrative and stop worrying about how perfectly the light falling through the window blinds fall upon everything in the scene.

Mike, you've been more onto this than me, but please tell me I reacted properly during this:

HAS HANNIBAL BEEN HOSTING HIS CANNIBAL DINNER PARTIES IN HOS PSYCHIATRISTS HOME???

So glad this show is coming back. So so glad. The last scene was amazing. The whole season really has been amazing. I'm gonna have to watch it again.

The problem with this show is you have to pay super attention. Can't dick around on your phone for a second.

[The_Mike]

You mean was he having all his dinner parties at Scully's house? I don't think so, I was sure it was mostly at his own home, except the occasions when he took food to Will and to Scully/Bedelia. It is heavily implied that the food he's serving at the parties is his victims, though, and during one meal Abigail tastes the food and gives Hannibal a funny look. We find out later that same episode (if I recall correctly this was the penultimate this season) that her father was a cannibal and apparently fed her some of the victims too. Presumably this is an indicator that she figured out Hannibal was serving human meat.

To me, the problem with the show is that you do have to pay attention, but at the same time if you pay too much attention you'll start finding what appear to be significant plotholes that just get swept under the rug. How exactly was an old man who could barely walk capable of folding human skeletons like origami and stacking 150lb bodies into totem poles? The show has many subtle touches and then does mad things like have Hannibal chew the scenery trying to be a massive creep. I really enjoyed season one but I hope they pull themselves together and get consistent with the writing for next year.

[Fanny]

my top moment of S1 came when Hannibal was int eh back of the ambulance massaging the guy's heart and Will was looking at him with the first glimmer of "oh hello...you might be a bit off/killery".

[Newf]

I just got caught up. Same as everyone... beautifully shot... very cerebral... shockingly gory for network TV... a few inconsistencies here and there...

I can honestly say I've never read any of the books or seen any of the films so while I don't compare Mads' portrayal to others I do still find myself asking other questions, like how does he REALLY see Will? I think a big part of it and perhaps why he doesn't get caught is what Gillian Anderson's character alluded to, the different side's of Hannibal. He's only showing certain faces or sides, behind the veil I think she said at one point. He's that 1 in a million. It has to be obvious to us, the viewer, but there's a bit of a suspension of disbelief I suppose that the rest of them just don't see it.

One thing I did love was that I almost started to question Will in the final episode. They did a good job of casting doubt and making you think "well maybe..."

Also that scene where the Angel Maker's wife is describing her husband's mood in the wake of his diagnosis and Jack has the revelation about his own wife... just the way Fishburne acted that scene without saying a word was brilliant.

Finally there was some generally creepy stuff all season but that bit with Ellen Muth as Georgia (funny how she had the same first name as her character in Dead Like Me, intentional nod by Bryan Fuller from what I read) really creeped me out.

All around a great show and now I'm hooked waiting for season 2.

[The_Mike]

So this is back, which I think NBC managed to not tell anyone on the planet about.

Caught up on the first two episodes and I'm enjoying it. Something still doesn't feel quite right, but they are getting stuck in to this story and shit is happening. Fishburne and Anderson are probably the most interesting cast-members, though of course Mads is always darkly brilliant, and so far they seem to have toned down his overt creepiness from last year.

Some writing choices leave me a bit confused though. They started the season with Crawford and Hannibal trying to murder one another, then flash back to cover the preceding twelve weeks over (presumably) the rest of the season. That's kind of gutsy and kind of cool to start with a confrontation we really want to see, but at the same time it's a bit like putting Rock vs Austin on RAW then having them feud to Mania. Do I need to see the journey when I've already seen the view from the top of the mountain? And when did Hannibal Lecter become a Jack Bauer? Being able to take care of himself makes sense but he's so immensely skilled this was like a fight from The Matrix.

Scully's gone now, too, after promising Hannibal not to tell anyone about his capacity for murder. She kind of drops hints to Crawford but nothing substantial and then she's gone, simply leaving Lecter with her promise and her admonishment for him being a bit of a giant creep. I don't really get what the point of her character or relationship with Lecter was, she never really seemed to tell us anything about him we didn't already know and he just kept fumbling with her like a schoolboy with a crush. It felt like her arc never went anywhere and she left rather abruptly.

Stylistically the show remains gorgeous and astonishing to look at. It is quite likely the best shot show on television.

[Newf]

I don't know that you can compare this to put Rock/Austin on Raw prior to Mania. We definitely want to see the journey because...

A) we want to know how Jack comes to find out and, B) is there a chance he survives a shard of class to the jugular?

As far as Bedelia:

I think her character tells us plenty about Hannibal without her actually saying much. We know that someone knows about or has strong suspicions of his true nature and he's allowed her to live. She's a very educated but damaged woman. Not unlike a battered wife who stays despite her husband's abuse. She feels indebted to him for saving her and he, along with feeling guilt that it was his referral that led to her attack, probably relishes having someone who knows more about him than most but can't say much due to confidentiality. We see throughout this series and any other serial killer profile that they all have a need to flaunt or brag, and that's their undoing. Hannibal is very careful about that, unless he's copying someone else's work. Having her simply know that there is more to him than meets the eye could be a sort of outlet for him, even if he's not confessing the gory details of his kills.

He's also protective. Prior to Will she may have been his only "friend", though she reminds him that their relationship is strictly professional. Despite all that it doesn't answer all our questions about Hannibal, but in raising the questions in the first place I think it tells us plenty about him.

I'm sure she'll be back at some point in the season. I know there was questions of how often she'd appear due to being cast in another NBC series but Bryan Fuller has said he'd use her in every episode if he could.

[The_Mike]

Sure, we want to know some stuff, but we've already seen the moneyshot, so to speak. Like I said it's gutsy but I'm not entirely sure it is advisable to give away so much so soon. The books and films exist, we know Hannibal's fate and the general direction of this story, so do we really need our appetites whetted so dramatically? I'm not completely against it but it seems risky, like there's not much else to build to now that they've blown their load. But I don't necessarily know what's coming.

I disagree about Bedelia:

I don't think it raises many questions we didn't already wonder about, never mind not answering much. She just tells us he's obviously not right, but he's obviously not right. The audience knows he's the killer and his behaviour has never really been remotely normal. Even the other characters find him a bit weird (not as much as they blatantly should), though Crawford softened when Hannibal fed him. Bedelia doesn't seem to have a purpose in the story, whether or not Hannibal finds her useful as an outlet, because I don't think her scenes tells us anything we didn't already infer from Hannibal's other relationships. It's like an acting workshop, it's always great, but the story doesn't go anywhere while they sit and chat. Apparently the word from Fuller now is Gillian Anderson won't be back this year, so I think they had to write her out unexpectedly, which kind of explains why this felt like a very sudden turn from her. Maybe she would have meant something more significant if they had more time with her.

[The_Mike]

The last episode was just so, so good. Shit meet fan.

[Newf]

Well, that finale certainly left me feeling gutted.

[Chitown847]

Stupidly posted in off topic...I should stop drinking...

GREAT show...There were times I cringed while watching it, but the Human Cello and Will putting the guy on the museum display...fucking hell. Loving it

[The_Mike]

This show is back, and I think the writers were on shrooms during the break.

[Judas Iscariot]

I still have to watch Season 2. Thought Season 1 was brilliant and I dunno why I dropped off, I think it moved nights or something and I forgot about it in the middle of the summer.

They're only just NOW on shrooms? I'm gonna have to blaze through Season 2 then if all of a sudden NOW it's getting crazy.

Is it still the most beautifully shot thing in the history of forever?

EDIT: Oh, so the second season started in February last year when the first was in April. No wonder I didn't know what the fuck I was doing, not that I ever really do.

[The_Mike]

Is it still the most beautifully shot thing in the history of forever?

Yes. I could complain about a lot of things, but it remains absolutely gorgeous and by all accounts they accomplished that on a relatively low budget compared to a lot of TV shows.

[Judas Iscariot]

If the first season is anything to go by I can't imagine it being low budget. The show's fucking gorgeous. Hats off to them.

[Chitown847]

NBC Cancelled Hannibal...Goddamnit. They fucked over Hannibal, they fucked over Conan, they fucked over Constantine. Waiting for them to fuck up Grimm...

[Donald]

That's a grimm outlook. Focus on the positives.

[The_Mike]

Goddamit. I hope Hannibal has some NBC execs over for dinner.

To be fair, the ratings were abysmal, but the show was in a bad slot for two years then when it came back in a better slot they threw two bizarre, esoteric episodes at people. Still, they let the first two seasons run on despite controversy and poor ratings, so I'm surprised they pulled the plug so suddenly.

[Chitown847]

That's a grimm outlook. Focus on the positives.

I would if there were any..

[The_Mike]

One pseudo-positive is that Netflix are apparently interested, though how serious they are is anyone's guess right now. Some fans were hoping it would end up on Netflix anyway, and it would probably be a more appropriate home for it than network television. NBC didn't make the show, anyway, and the production company still has deals with other channels in other countries, so it's not dead yet.

[Chitown847]

It's over

http://deadline.com/2015/07/hannibal-cast-released-new-home-1201467144/

[Donald]

The author of that article likes to start sentences with Still.

[sam_elmendorf]

I'm interested in watching this because I just found out Katharine Isabelle is in season 2-3. I've only seen the movie with Hopkins & Foster. Should I watch the other 2 movies or should I be good with just starting my marathon?

[Morrison]

the movies have nothing to do with this show.

[sam_elmendorf]

Cool, thanks!

[thegoat]

So, I've watched up until the episode with the guy who turns people into angels in series one. I like Mads Mikkelson but struggle to find the show to be anything more than a set of episodes of Criminal Minds or some shit strung together with Mads Mikkelson being good but a bit overly obviously creepy. Is it worth persevering? I know it just got cancelled obviously but does it pick up from the monster of the week feel I seem to have got so far?

[Chitown847]

http://screenrant.com/hannibal-season-4-netflix-amazon/

[Chitown847]

So, I've watched up until the episode with the guy who turns people into angels in series one. I like Mads Mikkelson but struggle to find the show to be anything more than a set of episodes of Criminal Minds or some shit strung together with Mads Mikkelson being good but a bit overly obviously creepy. Is it worth persevering? I know it just got cancelled obviously but does it pick up from the monster of the week feel I seem to have got so far?

Yes, it's absolutely worth watching

[Seanny One Ball]

Are you referencing the historically badass and potentially legendary "Blood Eagle"?

[Fanny]

So, I've watched up until the episode with the guy who turns people into angels in series one. I like Mads Mikkelson but struggle to find the show to be anything more than a set of episodes of Criminal Minds or some shit strung together with Mads Mikkelson being good but a bit overly obviously creepy. Is it worth persevering? I know it just got cancelled obviously but does it pick up from the monster of the week feel I seem to have got so far?


threads that you've maybe not even noticed yet become apparent and you have several "OH FUCK THAT'S THAT" moments fairly soon. The progression is gorgeous.

[The_Mike]

Season one falls into place nicely right around the moment you'll start to get sick of the killer-of-the-week stuff. It ends incredibly strongly, and season two becomes a very different, much more compelling animal. Season three, unfortunately, turns into a drug-fuelled fanfiction version of the film Hannibal.

[Chitown847]

Via the google/Business Insider

During the “Hannibal” panel at Comic-Con Saturday afternoon, showrunner Bryan Fuller divulged that the recently cancelled NBC series could have had a second life on Amazon.
Amazon “would like to have done it,” Fuller said to a room full of Fannibals, according to The Hollywood Reporter (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/comic-con-2015-hannibal-feature-808142).
Fuller expressed that it wouldn’t have worked out though because the streaming platform wanted them to rush to put together the next season.
"[They] wanted to do it very quickly and I wanted to be able to get all the scripts in advance before we started shooting a fourth season and their desire to put it out immediately was impossible for us to do," said Fuller.
Netflix couldn't pick up the show due to Amazon's streaming deal for the series (http://www.businessinsider.com/hannibal-season-4-cant-go-to-netflix-2015-6).
Fuller confirmed that during the panel.
However, there’s still hope for “Hannibal” to live on, fannibals, the affectionate name Hannibal fans refer to themselves as.
"We are still looking; we don't have a lot of answers and we're looking at the possibility of a feature," Fuller said, according to THR. "So we have Hugh and Mads, who are very committed to the show and would love to continue with the show. The way this season ends, we have the opportunity for a break and hopefully we'll be able to find a way to bring Mads and Hugh back to you."


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/why-amazon-didnt-save-hannibal-from-cancellation-2015-7#ixzz3fhgQg0DD

[The_Mike]

At this point I don't want it back.

Two and a half seasons of chasing Hannibal, ret-conning him into Il Monstro to send his killing and escaping back decades, spinning the show's wheels with endless cryptic mumbling, and then he just goes "oh fuck it, come and arrest me then". It's like he got as bored of the circular nonsense as I did.

[The_Mike]

Stick a fork in it, it's done. The finale was a bloody mess, literally.

[Pablo Diablo]

I didn't mind the Red Dragon arc really. The first half of this season though I did not like at all.

[The_Mike]

I did enjoy most of the Red Dragon stuff, but I got really tired of people getting so blatantly killed and then turning out to have survived, over and over, and Will's infinite capacity of blood. The show was so good at the beginning by being stylish while still grounded, but it ended with a bunch of supermen pissing blood on each other.

[Pablo Diablo]

Those are very fair points. Can't disagree with that. They did appear a little too superhumany here.

[Seanny One Ball]

I picked up the boxset of this recently and it's a fucking sin the way it went downhill immediately after season 1. Season 2 isn't outright bad but it's fucking stupid.
I am trying to get through season 3 purely to be done with it but I'm tempted to launch it all in the bin.
The timeline fuckery is annoying and needless but the fact that they've turned Hannibal into some sort of gothic badass is really disappointing.
This could have been a good show if they carried on in the "I don't trust you but I can't prove you're evil yet" vein instead of turning Will Graham into a milk fed gimp who's the most easily influenced person on the planet.

Mads Mikkelsen is great and all but he's clearly not playing Hannibal. In fact if this was a show about a random serial killer it would be much better.
Hannibal is supposed to be a charming psychopath with extremely good manners whereas every five minutes in the show he's breaking etiquette and being straight up rude.

TWO THUMBS DOWN