Heel/Face John Cena

[turdpower]

Yes, I'm one one of these wankers that starts to get interested around Wrestlemania.

Anyway, big chat seems to be about Cena turning heel. Will he or won't he?

People, on here at least, seem to be thinking Cena is hinting at turning heel and for me that doesn't work. The best heel turns happen when nobody expects it. SMASH. heel.

If he does turn heel at Wrestlemania, who does he feud with post PPV? All the top faces are basically part timers; HHH, Rock, Taker.

I often look at Cena/Punk as Austin/Rock, but shitter (obviously), this doesn't work going forward as heel vs heel.

So will he turn?

[Bert]

He won't. I'll name/avatar/ban bet anyone.

[Cewsh]

I will avatar bet you that he does.

[Peter Griffin]

Dont Cewsh, your avatar defines who you are!

[Bert]

I will avatar bet you that he does.

Done. Just say how long.

[chatty]

They are definitely playing it up/hinting at a turn but they did last year and have done on a few occassions just to garner that little extra interest in those who think he's bland as hell.

I don't think he'll turn tbh. If he does then they have no big name face to take his place and shift the type of merch Cena does. I mean they can throw Orton in there or Sheamus I suppose but one is the boringest face in the company and has fell several pegs and the other has been tried as Cena MKII and didn't really pull it off. They could turn Punk back to face after his vacation I suppose but even that won't fully balance the void.

[The Law]

I think they're actually going through with it. They've never actually teased him going heel before. I guess the closest they came was when he made that angry face to the camera during the Kane feud last year. Him turning is the right move from both a creative and business perspective. He's been a babyface for almost ten years now. It's time to freshen things up and let him go in a new direction. Also, I can guarantee they'll pop a good rating when he turns. People who are fans of wrestling but don't watch Raw consistently will tune in to see what happens.

They're incredibly thin on main event heels right now. With Big Show having turned face (might be temporary) it's basically Punk and Henry as heels with any real credibility. Shield are probably the second most over heels on the roster right now. Orton is due to turn, but Cena/Orton with Cena as the face and Orton as the heel is totally played out at this point. I think him vs. Daniel Bryan after Bryan turns on Kane could definitely be a good feud, but I'm not sure they're willing to push Bryan to that level. Other than that, there's Mark Henry (wouldn't be bad as a one-off) and a bunch of face vs. face matches (vs. Sheamus, vs. Del Rio, vs. Ryback).

I would put him with Heyman. Heyman needs someone to manage while Punk is on sabbatical and Lesnar is off TV. Heyman is a heat machine and Cena selling out to him is so perfect. Much better than pairing Cena and Johnny Ace. Because I actually want Heyman on my TV. Also, give him Zack Ryder as a disciple (just like Brutus Beefcake for Hogan). Ryder can turn heel, start wearing jorts, and ape all of Cena's moves in the ring. Instantly the most over heel in the midcard.

If they turned him, I would probably have him face Jericho at Extreme Rules. Even though Jericho has been losing to everyone since he came back, he has the credibility to jump into a PPV main event and not seem out of place. Also, the fans love him so much that there's no doubt they'd cheer him over Cena. After he beat Jericho, have him move on to a feud with either Orton or Sheamus (depends on if they turn Orton too). Randy getting his edge back and being Cena's old rival who pushed him to the limit and is back to beat him again would be entertaining. By the time him and Orton finished, Punk would be ready to come back. Punk returns as a babyface, the Piper to Cena's Hogan (in WCW). Ryback would probably be the guy to get the belt from him. He's the Goldberg to Cena's Hollywood Hogan. By the time we get to Wrestlemania, it's heel Cena gunning for the streak against Undertaker. Biggest main event in Mania history. I think Cena could actually make people think he's going to break it.

[Peter Griffin]

http://i.imgur.com/IVWJ0.png

[Cewsh]

Dont Cewsh, your avatar defines who you are!

Shit, I wish I was Darth Penguin.


Done. Just say how long.

Eh, just call it 30 days. The odds are against me, but it's worth it for the potential satisfaction.

Though if what you give me to use is some kind of slur or homophobic nonsense I will gladly welch on this bet and I wont feel bad about it for a second.

[chatty]

So if Cena did turn how would you organize the roster, it would men a few changes i'd imagine.

[Mark Hammer]

I thought he made some kind of reverse psychology heel turn about a year ago. Vice made a threadwith a poll about it too, lol. I suppose I was mistaken.

A Wrestlemania 17 (Austin/Rock) rehash does seem likely though. I just can't see how he can beat the Rock at Mania and walk out of the building as a babyface. People are not going to be happy.

[Vice]

CEWSH

Cewsh Reviews bet this shit?

I don't think he's turning. You think he may. Since we will be watching it together, we could potentially do some sort of ridiculous bet.

[chatty]

Rock shakes his hand, Cena mo sells any stick he gets with a cheesy promo about how its his time the next night on Raw whilst taking badguy A in the main event or bringing back/up heel A t attack him to close the show.

[Mills]

Yeah, his best face options are Sheamus, Ryback, Big Show and Orton. It seems Orton wants to turn too, but that makes little sense if they both turn on the same show

[Cewsh]

So if Cena did turn how would you organize the roster, it would men a few changes i'd imagine.

It actually wouldn't. The thing about a top heel on Cena's level is that you could put lesser stars against him in PPV main events in the summer months. The same way that face Cena faced guys like Umaga, Khali, Ziggler, and Punk and Edge before they were on that level. Heel Cena could do the same with Daniel Bryan, Kofi Kingston, Ryback, Sheamus, Del Rio, etc.

Honestly, I'd turn Orton too, and have them work together ala 2 Man Power Trip. That shit would get so much heat, and it's actually a pretty natural fit.

[Cewsh]

CEWSH

Cewsh Reviews bet this shit?

I don't think he's turning. You think he may. Since we will be watching it together, we could potentially do some sort of ridiculous bet.

Fuck yeah, buddy. You have any stakes in mind?

[Vice]

Not currently, but we could get some people here to think of something. Something PG-13 at most, mind you.

[chatty]

It actually wouldn't. The thing about a top heel on Cena's level is that you could put lesser stars against him in PPV main events in the summer months. The same way that face Cena faced guys like Umaga, Khali, Ziggler, and Punk and Edge before they were on that level. Heel Cena could do the same with Daniel Bryan, Kofi Kingston, Ryback, Sheamus, Del Rio, etc.

Honestly, I'd turn Orton too, and have them work together ala 2 Man Power Trip. That shit would get so much heat, and it's actually a pretty natural fit.

Yeah I suppose so, Sheamus, Ryback and Del Rio would make pretty decent main events name wise and bryan wold play a quality underdog. Would you turn Punk face when he returns then as he would move down the pecking order of heels and if orton turned as well then he'd probably move down again (at least temporarily).

[Bert]

Not currently, but we could get some people here to think of something. Something PG-13 at most, mind you.

Winner shaves their beard.

[Cewsh]

Yeah I suppose so, Sheamus, Ryback and Del Rio would make pretty decent main events name wise and bryan wold play a quality underdog. Would you turn Punk face when he returns then as he would move down the pecking order of heels and if orton turned as well then he'd probably move down again (at least temporarily).

I would never have CM Punk as a babyface again for as long as he lives.

I would put the World title on Punk, and keep them going as seperate entities.

[Beer-Belly]

Punk makes a fine babyface. Fans want to cheer him, so there's no reason he shouldn't switch it up at some point in the future.

[Cewsh]

Punk makes a fine babyface. Fans want to cheer him, so there's no reason he shouldn't switch it up at some point in the future.

I'm not saying this with any sort of agenda or anything, but I think CM Punk made for the least sympathetic babyface I have ever seen.

[Mark Hammer]

I would never have CM Punk as a babyface again for as long as he lives.

I would put the World title on Punk, and keep them going as seperate entities.

I don't understand this. He plays an amazing heel but he's just as good as a face, imo. He can do it all, why not take advantage of that when the babyface pool is so shallow?

[Vice]

I thought it worked amazing in the Guerrero/Benoit "this dude really shouldn't be standing here with the world title, but he's worked way too hard and he's so damn good that he deserves all of this" sort of way. People did want to cheer him for being the ACTUAL underdog in a promotion he really should not have even stepped foot in, much less succeeded in. Beyond that, not so great.

[Beer-Belly]

I'm not saying this with any sort of agenda or anything, but I think CM Punk made for the least sympathetic babyface I have ever seen.

Punk sold merch and both internet and non-internet fans liked him. It's pretty rare for the latter to happen these days.

Why does he need to be sympathetic? He was at his best when he was a Roddy Piper style wise ass. They went off course with the Jericho feud because it made him look too vulnerable.

[Cewsh]

I don't understand this. He plays an amazing heel but he's just as good as a face, imo. He can do it all, why not take advantage of that when the babyface pool is so shallow?

But that's the thing. I don't think he can do it all. He's pretty much the perfect heel, but outside of those months where he was riding high on universal fan support, his run as a babyface was completely forgettable. He doesn't stand out when he's restrained, and he can't be unrestrained with being a dickhead.


I thought it worked amazing in the Guerrero/Benoit "this dude really shouldn't be standing here with the world title, but he's worked way too hard and he's so damn good that he deserves all of this" sort of way. People did want to cheer him for being the ACTUAL underdog in a promotion he really should not have even stepped foot in, much less succeeded in. Beyond that, not so great.

It worked great from Money in the Bank until around the Royal Rumble, but the wheels fell off, and he wasn't natural enough in that role to make it work.

[Kev]

I'm not saying this with any sort of agenda or anything, but I think CM Punk made for the least sympathetic babyface I have ever seen.

Yeah I whole heartedly agree with that. He was more the bloke that just called out heels for being shite and everyone agreed with him. I found that even in his PERSONAL FEUD with Jericho it was a real struggle to cheer for him, as he is just so much of a natural arsehole.

I love Punk as a heel, especially as a dick in the ring, he's just hilarious and entertaining to watch. As a 'face it was only really interesting against the likes of Cena, and while I wouldn't mind seeing them wrestle forever, it's probably not likely.

[Cewsh]

Punk sold merch and both internet and non-internet fans liked him. It's pretty rare for the latter to happen these days.

Those things did happen, yes, and they were based primarily on an unrepeatable event that the wrestling world adored him for. By the time 2012 rolled around, he wasn't getting those reactions anymore.


Why does he need to be sympathetic? He was at his best when he was a Roddy Piper style wise ass. They went off course with the Jericho feud because it made him look too vulnerable.

Faces have to at least appear vulnerable, or the matches have no stakes. And he is awful at vulnerable.

[Beer-Belly]

Punk's reactions were still better than any other face in the company at that time. It wasn't even close. Cena got louder responses, but they were still as mixed as they always are.

Was Stone Cold vulnerable? He'd get wounded and then come back to kick more ass. A character doesn't need to be weak to be sympathetic.

[Cewsh]

Punk's reactions were still better than any other face in the company at that time. It wasn't even close. Cena got louder responses, but they were still as mixed as they always are.

Was Stone Cold vulnerable? He'd get wounded and then come back to kick more ass. A character doesn't need to be weak to be sympathetic.

I think Austin was vulnerable, absolutely. He got the shit kicked out of him by everybody in his days on top. Then he would get his revenge and kick ass. The problem with Punk is that he's no good at making you care about that first part, which means that you won't care about the revenge part. That's how you get feuds that end up dead in the water like the Jericho one.

Punk is a heel. He's a heel in real life, he's a heel in the ring and he's a heel on the mic. Trying to force him to be a babyface when his skill set doesn't work that way, is just going to hurt his value down the road.

When he's 40, and people revere him like they do Flair, then he can be a face. But he has to earn the sympathy that comes with years and years of great performances and memorable angles. You can't just turn him face 3 months after he covers himself in Paul Bearer's ashes.

[Beer-Belly]

I think Austin was vulnerable, absolutely. He got the shit kicked out of him by everybody in his days on top. Then he would get his revenge and kick ass. The problem with Punk is that he's no good at making you care about that first part, which means that you won't care about the revenge part. That's how you get feuds that end up dead in the water like the Jericho one.

Punk is a heel. He's a heel in real life, he's a heel in the ring and he's a heel on the mic. Trying to force him to be a babyface when his skill set doesn't work that way, is just going to hurt his value down the road.

When he's 40, and people revere him like they do Flair, then he can be a face. But he has to earn the sympathy that comes with years and years of great performances and memorable angles. You can't just turn him face 3 months after he covers himself in Paul Bearer's ashes.

Aside from the Jericho feud, where they tried to force sympathy by bringing up Punk's family for no reason, he was suitably vulnerable. He was essentially Bugs Bunny, and Bugs Bunny didn't need emotional baggage brought up to be a likable character.

A heel in real life? No, he just trolls people on Twitter. Punk visiting that old man who got shot in the face and giving him tickets to a show was decidedly un-heelish.

I didn't say anything about turning him in three months. You said he should remain a heel forever which I think is silly. At some point they might very well have no choice but to turn him. If he's getting loud chants while going against beloved guys like Rock and Undertaker, imagine the reaction when they pit him against less well liked guys like Del Rio.

[Rip]

Punk is the poster child for a certain type of internet fan, he's a 'real' wrestler from the 'indies' who's 'served his time' and succeeded despite his look and style, he'll always be a sort of anti-Cena in terms of reaction, ie no matter what Cena does he'll always be booed by certain sections because 'it's the cool thing to do' Punk will always be cheered by the same section for the same reason.

[Hero!]

I'm not saying this with any sort of agenda or anything, but I think CM Punk made for the least sympathetic babyface I have ever seen.

Because he's not a babyface. The man is a heel through-and-through. The crowd turned him face, they WANTED him face, they forced him to be face and while he was great against guys like Nash & Trips, who he could just rip apart while the IWC collective jizzed their pants, it flopped against guys like Jericho & Bryan. Punk is just too natural a heel, even if face Punk is what the crowd THINKS they want.

[Hero!]

No, I didn't read the rest of the thread before posting that. I just saw Punk and had to comment.

[Zacharie]

I think it would be cool if John did turn at Mania by using a weapon to beat The Rock. Rock wouldn't see that coming. Maybe CM Punk even helps him out to reveal a pact where they want to push guys like Rock and Taker out of the company.

Afterwards, I'd still have him show hustle, loyalty, and respect to his Chain Gangers, but at the same time, telling all of his haters to shove it. Something along the lines of:

"I did all these bad things to your hero at WrestleMania, but your kids still look up to me and buy my fruity t-shirts. I'm the only hero who they have look up to now."

[Beer-Belly]

Dude, Punk vs. Bryan ruled. The crowd liked both of them equally. Bryan was particularly over because of WrestleMania and "YES!"/"NO!".

Saying Jericho/Punk was a flop isn't correct either. It might not have been exactly what people wanted, but it still produced some good entertainment.

I'm pretty sure I KNOW I want Punk as a face at some point. If they turn Cena then they have to Punk/Cena again with the roles reversed.

[Hero!]

Dude, Punk vs. Bryan ruled. The crowd liked both of them equally. Bryan was particularly over because of WrestleMania and "YES!"/"NO!".

Saying Jericho/Punk was a flop isn't correct either. It might not have been exactly what people wanted, but it still produced some good entertainment.

I'm pretty sure I KNOW I want Punk as a face at some point. If they turn Cena then they have to Punk/Cena again with the roles reversed.

The matches were AWESOME. The crowd reactions were AMAZING. The Chemistry between those two is something that is so unscripted and real and just comes from 2 guys knowing each other for so long. The problem was that Punk, the character, was never very passionate about the feud. He never really wanted AJ's attention or cared about Bryan as a rival to his "relationship" with AJ, he was simply defending his title against another challenger.

With jericho, the feud was just SO forced. Some of those skits and promos were just...MEH. I get it, Punk's family has substance issues, but it never came across like Punk really gave a shit about what jericho said. Again, Punk felt more like the champion just defending his title against someone because everyone else was busy.

With feud like Rock/Punk or Punk/Taker, with Punk as heel there's a sense of passion that i just don't get out of face Punk. With Rock, you could almost taste the hatred. With Taker, you can see Punk almost losing his mind as he prepares to take on the dead man. There's so much more in these feuds than there was in his face feuds.

[Tainted Eclipse]

shield wins. lesnar wins. shield and lesnar interfere and punk beats undertaker. heyman's new crew interferes in main event and cena wins. cena and punk stare each other down across the ring as rock lays beaten and cenas music plays. cena and punk give each other a ridiculous exaggerated hug while paul heyman laughs his ass off celebrating with punk, cena and lesnar while the shield patrol the perimeter of the ring looking intimidating. NWO-esque angle with the new DANGEROUS ALLIANCE ensues.

thats what i'd probably do if i were lord and master of the wwe. it has 0% chance of happening, but no matter how it went down it would be cool to see cena turn heel, i'd get really excited about the product. i still dont think its gonna happen and we'll get a by the numbers cena win.

[mth]

I'm adding a poll. I won't vote until after I've watched last night's RAW to see if it sways me further.

[Beer-Belly]

Lawler adding that the crowd was more anti-Cena than usual seemed like another hint.

[Shane Luttmann]

Ive posted it elsewhere, But i truly think that he will win his match, cheating in the process. Turn heel, then lose the title a few minutes later to Ziggler with that money in the bank. Which will make Cena turn that much more. COuld be good for him though. His current wwe gig is getting old. He needs a retune i think. But really, i cant see it making a big difference. People already hate this guy as is.

[Brian M.]

I'm more convinced than I ever have been before that they are leaning towards a heel turn, but it's been so long that I can't be fully convinced. I think he will pull some heel-ish tactics in the match, but he will still be a face when all is said and done. Hopefully a more interesting face, but we will see. Hope I'm wrong.

[Morrison]

Ive posted it elsewhere, But i truly think that he will win his match, cheating in the process. Turn heel, then lose the title a few minutes later to Ziggler with that money in the bank. Which will make Cena turn that much more. COuld be good for him though. His current wwe gig is getting old. He needs a retune i think. But really, i cant see it making a big difference. People already hate this guy as is.

ziggler can't cash in on that title.

[Morrison]

Aside from the Jericho feud, where they tried to force sympathy by bringing up Punk's family for no reason, he was suitably vulnerable. He was essentially Bugs Bunny, and Bugs Bunny didn't need emotional baggage brought up to be a likable character.

A heel in real life? No, he just trolls people on Twitter. Punk visiting that old man who got shot in the face and giving him tickets to a show was decidedly un-heelish.

I didn't say anything about turning him in three months. You said he should remain a heel forever which I think is silly. At some point they might very well have no choice but to turn him. If he's getting loud chants while going against beloved guys like Rock and Undertaker, imagine the reaction when they pit him against less well liked guys like Del Rio.

punk himself says he can't play a face, hates attempting to play a face and would rather not do it. which means when he's made to do it, his heart isn't in it. and it shows.

and while he's an incredibly loyal dude to the people he cares about, and will go out of his way to do awesome things for fans, he certainly can be a total asshole if you catch him the wrong way, which he again admits to himself. his friends admit it can be hard to be friends with him sometimes, because he doesn't have that filter that keeps people from doing really dickhead things at times. you really don't need to be defending him.