RIP Reid Flair

[Defrost]

http://www.pwinsider.com/article/76485/reid-flair-passes-away.html?p=1

Had worked a few shows for All Japan. Was 24 years old.

[Cewsh]

WHAT

[Vice]

whatthefuck

How?

[Defrost]

He's had drug issues before. Whether that is what caused this I am unsure.

[MTR]

I just saw this. What the fuck?

RIP

[Vice]

He's had drug issues before. Whether that is what caused this I am unsure.

Drugs were my first thought, but he's a Flair. Drugs can't kill Flairs.

[Cewsh]

Yeah, he was a heroin addict and I don't think he ever really went to rehab.

His story if even more awful than the rest of the Flair's. David never stood a chance with how he was thrown into the spotlight before he was ready, but Reid actually trained to wrestle, got halfway decent at it, and really only had to not fuck it up to be a megastar. He was in the main event of an All Japan show not 3 months ago, for fuck's sake. Just awful.

[MTR]

Yeah he had a great amatuer background and had really picked up the pro side of things. Could have been a huge star.

[Vice]

David banged Daffers, so I kind of think he's the champion of the family.

[VHS]

This news saddens me so much! What in the heck happened? :(

[kangus]

Don't over-reid the situation, it was probably heroin related.

[Sparky]

Jesus Christ, 24 years old. What a waste of a bright future, assuming it was drugs.

[JRSlim21]

Holy shit. Insane. The ball's in Charlotte court. RIP to the family though

[G-Fresh]

R.I.P. bro

[Mark Hammer]

I feel awful for Ric and his family.

[JP]

I could not care less about the cause of death and to be frank find the conjecture a little bit distasteful. The only thing that matters here is that somebody so damn young has passed away and the gap he will leave to those closest to him.

This has genuinely upset me, quite confused as to why.

[Vice]

Cause of death matters to a lot of people. There is a big difference between drug overdose, suicide, fluke heart attack/blood clot/something, choked on a Pop-Tart, slipped down a flight of stairs, etc.

It's tragic any way you look at it still, though.

[JP]

Cause of death matters to a lot of people. There is a big difference between drug overdose, suicide, fluke heart attack/blood clot/something, choked on a Pop-Tart, slipped down a flight of stairs, etc.

It's tragic any way you look at it still, though.

That's the thing though mate, for some people if it is an overdose some people will get on their horses and judge away, where for me the concentration should be on the fact a 24 year old lad - younger than many of us posting here - has tragically passed away. If I see some judging, I'll get, ummmmmm, well, judging.

Provided he wasn't harming anybody else I honestly believe it doesn't make a difference.

[Cewsh]

It's basically the difference between him having a tragic life and him having a tragic death.

[JP]

It's basically the difference between him having a tragic life and him having a tragic death.

Does it matter though, in the greater scheme of things?

[Cewsh]

Does it matter though, in the greater scheme of things?

No, and if they wanted to keep those details a secret I would respect that. But since we will eventually find out, it's the sort of thing that I'd like to know. Just sort of a blank filled out in the history of a person I followed for a number of years.

[Freebird]

Awful, terrible news.

[The Rosk]

Holy shit.

[Olympus]

Saw this on Facebook of all places. Couldn't believe it.

[kangus]

Do you think Ric Flair wants Heroin in a cage?

[Defrost]

Ric is the one who found the body

http://www.f4wonline.com/more/more-top-stories/118-daily-updates/30539-more-on-reid-flairs-death

[DDT]

Jesus...

[virms]

Poor Ric. I don't have kids but I couldn't imagine finding your child dead

Prayers to the family.

[McBain]

Proper gutted to hear this. Tragic.

[Vandal]

RIP

[MikeHunt]

Again not really being a dick but how is this anymore tragic than any of the other countless fucking 25 year olds and those younger who die every day from overdoses, drink, heart attacks, abuse ect I could go on. It's tragic for those involved but why any of you really give a fuck I don't know.

[Vice]

In a way, a lot of us kind of grew up with him. We saw him as a kid in the days of WCW, then WWF/E, saw him with his dad at the Hall of Fame, watched him start his professional wrestling career, etc. Plus we've all watched the shit out of Ric Flair, and I don't think there is any worse pain in the world than being a parent and losing a child. So there are many little reasons to be more hurt by Reid dying than some random guy who we have never heard of.

[Bennedy]

Again not really being a dick but how is this anymore tragic than any of the other countless fucking 25 year olds and those younger who die every day from overdoses, drink, heart attacks, abuse ect I could go on. It's tragic for those involved but why any of you really give a fuck I don't know.

Who said it was anymore tragic than any other 25 year old dying? He was in the public eye, so his death is obviously going to get more attention than others.

[MikeHunt]

Was he in the public eye? He's a wrestlers son. Who was wrestling at independent shows. If more than 3 people posting in this thread have seen him wrestle more than once I'd be very shocked. Would anyone give a shite if it was hogans son. Doubt it.

[Bennedy]

All Japan is not an independant promotion. He had been working for them recently. I get what you're saying, but no one has gone over the top with their response. Just the usual "this is tragic" and "RIP".

[MikeHunt]

Making a specific thread for it is over the top IMO. Hardly a high profile death.

[The Rogerer]

I'll put on a baseball cap if you want to knock that off my head, or something?

[VHS]

Was he in the public eye? He's a wrestlers son. Who was wrestling at independent shows. If more than 3 people posting in this thread have seen him wrestle more than once I'd be very shocked. Would anyone give a shite if it was hogans son. Doubt it.

I'm not an expert on the life and times of Reid Flair, but I wouldn't necessarily put him in the same boat as Nick Hogan.

Mike, you're a jerk. Seriously.

[MikeHunt]

Why not? he's certainly far more famous and how would it not be equally as tragic? ones a junkie the others a murderer, both appeared to be contributing absolutely nothing to society.

I'm glad you think i'm a "jerk" VHS. as your judgement call after minimal discussion between the two of us leads me to believe you are a "jerk" as well. back to your wrestling reviews and crying over dead folk that you don't know.

[Beer-Belly]

It's just a thread on a wrestling message board. It's not like everyone here started a fundraiser or some shit.

[Stanford]

Again not really being a dick but...

Haha, you spend your entire online existence trying to be a dick. Now you're making an exception to say "Who cares?" about a famous wrestlers kid dying? Who are you trying to kid? Of course you're trying to be a dick. How else would you blow your load today? I seriously doubt positive human contact could get you off.

[Judas Iscariot]

MikeHunt knows all about birds birds birds bird birds.

[MikeHunt]

Haha, you spend your entire online existence trying to be a dick. Now you're making an exception to say "Who cares?" about a famous wrestlers kid dying? Who are you trying to kid? Of course you're trying to be a dick. How else would you blow your load today? I seriously doubt positive human contact could get you off.

Nope this is genuinely my point of view on this subject. Lot of nonsensical opinions and grief for a man who was the son of a wrestler. If it was someone who had an impact on my life or I considered an idol then I could see why anyone would be gutted. If it was ric flair I would expect this, if it was hulk hogan I would expect this, but it's not its someone's son who was a junkie and appears to have overdosed. Fantastic lets celebrate the stupidity of addiction and idiocy of those who want to grieve the life of a man they have only heard the name of. Fantastic!

[Felonious Punk]

:\ he and I had a few mutual friends, a lot of whom got into heroin with Reid a few years ago. one of our friends died from it. looks like Reid didnt get the message. sad stuff. RIP

[The Rogerer]

Nope this is genuinely my point of view on this subject. Lot of nonsensical opinions and grief for a man who was the son of a wrestler. If it was someone who had an impact on my life or I considered an idol then I could see why anyone would be gutted. If it was ric flair I would expect this, if it was hulk hogan I would expect this, but it's not its someone's son who was a junkie and appears to have overdosed. Fantastic lets celebrate the stupidity of addiction and idiocy of those who want to grieve the life of a man they have only heard the name of. Fantastic!I'm really sorry, mate. Really sorry. There is no excuse.

[VHS]

Nope this is genuinely my point of view on this subject. Lot of nonsensical opinions and grief for a man who was the son of a wrestler. If it was someone who had an impact on my life or I considered an idol then I could see why anyone would be gutted. If it was ric flair I would expect this, if it was hulk hogan I would expect this, but it's not its someone's son who was a junkie and appears to have overdosed. Fantastic lets celebrate the stupidity of addiction and idiocy of those who want to grieve the life of a man they have only heard the name of. Fantastic!

That's the thing, we're not "celebrating" anything. We're expressing our condolences.

Why do you have to throw your wrench into every thread you come across, especially one concerning the death of a legend's son?

[Brian M.]

Why not? he's certainly far more famous and how would it not be equally as tragic? ones a junkie the others a murderer, both appeared to be contributing absolutely nothing to society.


So in your brain doing drugs and killing yourself is the same as murdering someone else and not seeming to give a shit about it? Seems reasonable.

[MikeHunt]

Equally as stupid and selfish. If you can't control yourself why enter into things such as drug abuse.

[The Rogerer]

I'm a bit confused. It seems like Mike Hunt is starting to care about the circumstances of death. Isn't that a bit out of line? Just want to be sure.

[MikeHunt]

You're definitely confused.

[Brian M.]

Equally as stupid and selfish. If you can't control yourself why enter into things such as drug abuse.

I think the "can't control yourself" trait is what leads to the abuse...

If you could control yourself then you wouldn't abuse drugs.

[MikeHunt]

I quite regularly use drugs socially and know when is appropriate to use and when to fucking stop. Unlike daftys who end up dead at 25 and their families left distraught. Also if he really had such bad drug problems surely he could of attended some form of rehab considering his fathers fame which appears to have made him famous from beyond the grave.

[The Rogerer]

You're definitely confused.Are you not going to resolve this discrepancy?

[JP]

I quite regularly use drugs socially and know when is appropriate to use and when to fucking stop. Unlike daftys who end up dead at 25 and their families left distraught. Also if he really had such bad drug problems surely he could of attended some form of rehab considering his fathers fame which appears to have made him famous from beyond the grave.

Do you lack the ability to empathise full stop or is it only about certain things?

Genuine question mate, just from what I've seen you post everything is certain, without question and black and white.

[The Rogerer]

Mike hasn't addressed my problem yet, this discrepancy is going to flower into anarchy if he doesn't get in here and deal with this.

[MikeHunt]

Can we close the fucking thread mods. Or anarchy will begin!!!

[MikeHunt]

Was that right rog? Tell me I did good yeah!

[The Rogerer]

You can't start getting sarcy about this now. You picked up the mantle and set the standard. You've gone out of your way to step in all over these forums and show people a better way. Why would you do that if you didn't want to see some change in the world? The change is here! We are ready to follow you, but we still need your help, many people still have to learn.

For you to start this mission to stop coverage of wrestling news and then not see it through would be so wasteful, there is nothing worse than a man with vision wasting his talent.

I've seen your pain. You look at this board and see so much wrong, and you step in to put it right. You're not like the rest of these people, Mike, and don't try to pretend you don't care. We all have to see this through, and what reward - the world as you see it! All wrestling news will be harmonious and correct, and only then can we heal the world!

You're not a flounder, are you? You're not as fickle and aimless as the rest of these oiks, talking to wrestlers and making threads about wrestling news? Are you? Of course not!

[MikeHunt]

Someone's got a bit of a bee in their bonnet. I thought change was to instigated by forum leaders and mods and dumbfucks who promise their time to rebuild websites but alas get knocked back cause it's fucking pointless. My point has been made in here. I shall no further discuss it.

[The Rogerer]

We know how the forum leaders thing worked out. You saw through that yourself, why else do you do what you do? I agree that your work here is done and you have the next transgression to focus on.

[Cewsh]

Oh shit, I think Mike just called DVDA a murderer.

[Jacknife]

Yeah I never heard of Reid Flair before this news. Saw some clip of him taking down Bischoff on Nitro. So glad I didn't watch WCW.

[JP]

http://www.jrsbarbq.com/blog/jrs-thoughts-passing-reid-flair



The untimely death of a 25 year old young man has been especially difficult for me to process. Here's why....

After Jim Crockett Promotions bought out Bill Watts' UWF, I began doing a great deal of work in the Carolinas while commuting from my home, at that time, in Dallas, Texas.

Everyone knows that the Carolinas, especially Charlotte, is, was and always will be 'Flair Country.' Ric and I got to know each other when he would be booked in Watts' territory back in the day and I, usually, would be assigned by the Big Cowboy to be Ric's side kick while he was with us.

So, when I started staying in Charlotte a few days a month, Ric and I spent a great deal of time together. I was in "his town" and I became a quasi member of the Flair family. That meant that I got to know all the Flair kids including Reid who was just starting to walk.

Ric and I have a special relationship. Ric was with me when I met the most important person in my life, my wife Jan, who was a USAirways flight attendant when Naitch and I were sitting side by side in first class on a flight. He's the first one to point out that I was smitten....and he was right. Jan and I have been together ever since.

So, Reid's sudden passing hit me like an 18 wheeler because it literally felt that I had lost a member of my own family. In a way, I did.

I was around Reid to see him grow up to a normal kid, with a very famous father, who had big, athletic dreams at a young age especially in amateur wrestling at which he excelled. Ric spared no expense in providing Reid with every opportunity to improve through expert coaching and training. Ric was as committed to making Reid's dreams come true as Reid was. They were on this particular journey together. Father and son.

A few years ago Reid began having some personal issues that have been documented elsewhere. No family is immune to the temptations of life that exist today and that are challenges that face every family in some way. Either with their own child, a friend of a child, a friend's or relative's child, etc. None of us are immune to the 'demons' that like to prey upon those that let their guard down if even for only a moment because a moment, at times, is all it takes.

Over the past few years while some of those issues were on going I was, at the bequest of Naitch, engaging Reid in a series of telephone calls to discuss his situation, where he had been and where he wanted to go. At times, these conversations lasted for hours. They were candid, honest and, at times, they seemed to help me address these matters perhaps more than they helped Reid. I loved taking to him and will cherish the opportunities that we had to converse over the years.

During every conversation, I found Reid to never be defiant, to always be polite and above all else to be respectful. That was because of how he was raised... by two, loving parents.

Reid Flair was a lovable, good hearted kid. He, like all of us, had his blemishes but he was a sweetheart of a young man. Why God picked this particular time to take Reid, we will never know but it is my belief on this Easter Sunday, the first Easter Sunday that Reid Flair has spent with God,that is the greatest day young Reid could have ever imagined.

Finally, I cannot tell you how many times I carried Ric's famous Rolex watch along with Ric's wallet in my pocket while Naitch was wrestling. He trusted me with his belongings for safe keeping rather than leave them in a locker room. I also cannot tell you how many times that Ric took the photos of his children out of his wallet and kissed each and everyone of them before handing them off . This was a pre match ritual that Ric Flair had before every match....kissing the photos of his children that he carried with him at all times. I don't recall at any time that Ric didn't have a funny or poignant story about one of his kids and young Reid was always included. He was the apple of his Dad's eye.

Ric's love for his children, even in the most hectic, trying days of his professional career, impressed me more regarding the legendary Ric Flair than any 5 star match that I have seen him perform....and there have been plenty of those. I love Ric Flair and will be there for him at any time of the night or day. As my wife, who's so much smarter than am I, pointed out to me a few hours ago, in such a timely fashion, that we have a wonderful life but none of our tomorrows are guaranteed.

Rest in peace Reid. You were so loved by all of us, especially your Dad, and will be missed by all that knew you.

[The Rogerer]

Bloody hell, Mike. Sort JR out will you. Why is he writing this when hardly anyone who reads it will care?

[wardy]

MikeHunt is blatantly taking the piss here. I don't know why you're all responding to him like he isn't. Except The Rogerer of course.

[chatty]

Its pretty sad and I feel for his family and friends but I can't really emphasize with someone I don't know who most likely killed themselves by abusing something that they will have known could kill them if they abused it. Fair enough, some people have problems and deal with them by abusing substances in a vain aid to forget them. I just can't feel sorry for someone who effectively kills themselves.

[Peter Griffin]

From Tommy Dreamers facebook

I am in shock & disgusted. I just saw tmz.com promote Ric Flair 911 phone call abut his son. I usually enjoy the tv show & follow their website but there comes a time when journalistic integrity has to take a back seat to being a human being. I don't understand how that is public knowledge or why people would want to hear a fathers pleas for his dying son. I know 911 records its calls but it has to be illegal for these recorded converstaions to be broadcast to the public. If it was me I would sue 911 the city & state & tmz I spoke to Ric that morning & I told him I love him & he coudnt speak just sobbing & thanking me for the support. TMZ I know some of your reporters they are al always so cordial & cool. I have been on the show a few times but, just like networks have decided not to show the WARE Basketball leg break, it is wrong to promote a situation like Rics or any celebrity all so people can click on the internet for advertisers money and profit. Being arrested, drunk or just stupid in the public eye is one thing & being a celebrity you give up certain rites but not in that case. Very upset with your choice to go with that story.


WOW TMZ hits new lows?

[The_Mike]

Its pretty sad and I feel for his family and friends but I can't really emphasize with someone I don't know who most likely killed themselves by abusing something that they will have known could kill them if they abused it. Fair enough, some people have problems and deal with them by abusing substances in a vain aid to forget them. I just can't feel sorry for someone who effectively kills themselves.

Do you know what addiction is? It's not as if addicts just decide "hey, drinking some drain cleaner sounds like a laugh. I know it will likely kill me but I'll do it anyway because I am plain stupid." And those who do kill themselves on purpose warrant zero sympathy? Could it not be the most painful thing in the world to look at your life and decide that it would be better if it ended?

Anyway, sad to see a young guy pass away and Ric Flair be hit with even more heartache in his life.

[The Rogerer]

WOW TMZ hits new lows?You may not remember when WWE played Lex Luger's 911 call when Elizabeth was dying. I guess Vince is always one step ahead.

[chatty]

Do you know what addiction is? It's not as if addicts just decide "hey, drinking some drain cleaner sounds like a laugh. I know it will likely kill me but I'll do it anyway because I am plain stupid." And those who do kill themselves on purpose warrant zero sympathy? Could it not be the most painful thing in the world to look at your life and decide that it would be better if it ended?

Anyway, sad to see a young guy pass away and Ric Flair be hit with even more heartache in his life.

Like I said its sad and I feel for his family and friends but in this day and age anyone who decides to start taking a drug like heroin knows that there is a massive chance they will get addicted and a good chance that it will lead to their death and pain and sorrow for those who love them. That's why I said I couldn't empathize (even though I spelt it wrong in the last post), I can't understand people who put themselves in that situation and for that reason I can't sympathize.

I'm not saying he was a disgrace or deserved to die or anything, just simply that I can't feel sorry for people who bring it on themselves. We're all human and we all have things we have to deal with, some more so than others but its how you deal with them that defines you. Again with suicide victims, I'm not saying they are bad for what they have done but I can't muster any sorrow up for them.

[JP]

Like I said its sad and I feel for his family and friends but in this day and age anyone who decides to start taking a drug like heroin knows that there is a massive chance they will get addicted and a good chance that it will lead to their death and pain and sorrow for those who love them. That's why I said I couldn't empathize (even though I spelt it wrong in the last post), I can't understand people who put themselves in that situation and for that reason I can't sympathize.

I'm not saying he was a disgrace or deserved to die or anything, just simply that I can't feel sorry for people who bring it on themselves. We're all human and we all have things we have to deal with, some more so than others but its how you deal with them that defines you. Again with suicide victims, I'm not saying they are bad for what they have done but I can't muster any sorrow up for them.

It's incredibly unlikely his first drug was Heroin mate. He was more than likely already addicted to drugs in general before he ever even thought about trying it.

Have you known somebody who's committed suicide?

Not having a go at you here mate, but there seem to be a lot of people on the boards now who struggle with the concept of empathy, much more so than in the past. Is it a society thing and I'm just getting old?

[MikeHunt]

It's incredibly unlikely his first drug was Heroin mate. He was more than likely already addicted to drugs in general before he ever even thought about trying it.

Have you known somebody who's committed suicide?

Not having a go at you here mate, but there seem to be a lot of people on the boards now who struggle with the concept of empathy, much more so than in the past. Is it a society thing and I'm just getting old?


Haha! Right I was only pissing about right. But Jesus JP! Saying things like heroin probably wasn't the first thing he was addicted to blah blah blah is a very dated concept and as a person who works with people with addictions in a city riddled with smackheads and drunks and people I work with regularly kill themselves. Almost all addicts are self destructive and probably want to die, if they don't seek help with their addiction then they want to die. Flair jr unfortunately had a fucking death wish and the saddest part of this whole thing is that his friends and family didn't notice his addiction spiralling out of control leading to an untimely death.

if he committed suicide he also would have already made his mind up and that's it game over basically. As sad as it is that's the truth about suicide and addiction.

[chatty]

It's incredibly unlikely his first drug was Heroin mate. He was more than likely already addicted to drugs in general before he ever even thought about trying it.

Have you known somebody who's committed suicide?

Not having a go at you here mate, but there seem to be a lot of people on the boards now who struggle with the concept of empathy, much more so than in the past. Is it a society thing and I'm just getting old?

Yeah one of my good friends killed himself by eating some bark of Yew tree. And whilst I was sad about it, again I couldn't feel sorry for him. I just simply can't understand that mentality from a personal standpoint. I have had a few friends who have died in different ways so I have went through mixed emotions when I have had to deal with people's deaths.

For me, the thing with drugs is that everyone in this day and age knows the dangers of them and sure people might start of on a bit of pit and move up but you still know which ones are hugely addictive and should stay clear. I took drugs for a good ten years, quite intensely as well but I always managed to stay clear of heroin simply because I knew it was the wrong route to go down.

I think people who get on it generally have some sort of major issue they are dealing with and use to forget or to escape. He might have been a nice guy, I don't know but if it does turn out it was an OD then it definitely comes down to self destruction.

As I said I feel for those who loved him but I just can't feel much for him in way of sympathy. Its sad no doubt and a waste of a life and I do imagine you must be in some bad emotional state to take that route of life but its not something I would do personally so in that respect I can't put myself in those shoes to evoke much of a emotional response.

[Peter Griffin]

You may not remember when WWE played Lex Luger's 911 call when Elizabeth was dying. I guess Vince is always one step ahead.

Never heard that no, I dont know for what purpose they played that Luger tape (was it days after to get ratings/hits to their site, or part of a serious documentary etc), but its a shit and wrong thing to be doing in any circumstance. But TMZ are blatantly scum.

[MikeHunt]

Are TMZ the equal of heat magazine? Sounds like the kind of pish they would pull.

"Harvey's going to eat you...."

[JP]

Haha! Right I was only pissing about right. But Jesus JP! Saying things like heroin probably wasn't the first thing he was addicted to blah blah blah is a very dated concept and as a person who works with people with addictions in a city riddled with smackheads and drunks and people I work with regularly kill themselves. Almost all addicts are self destructive and probably want to die, if they don't seek help with their addiction then they want to die. Flair jr unfortunately had a fucking death wish and the saddest part of this whole thing is that his friends and family didn't notice his addiction spiralling out of control leading to an untimely death.

if he committed suicide he also would have already made his mind up and that's it game over basically. As sad as it is that's the truth about suicide and addiction.

Not going to pretend it's my field of expertise, but do many people actually start on Heroin and if not, are they not already addicted when they try it? If it's a dated concept that's probably I'm dated, but what is the thinking now?

Fair play with your work, can't be easy. :yes:

[G-Fresh]

Nobody decides to just start using heroin. It's a buildup.

[The_Mike]

It's incredibly unlikely his first drug was Heroin mate. He was more than likely already addicted to drugs in general before he ever even thought about trying it.

Have you known somebody who's committed suicide?

Not having a go at you here mate, but there seem to be a lot of people on the boards now who struggle with the concept of empathy, much more so than in the past. Is it a society thing and I'm just getting old?

I'm a bit younger than you and I've been noticing that too. It's part of why I'm barely ever here anymore. It's creepy at times, to be honest.


Never heard that no, I dont know for what purpose they played that Luger tape (was it days after to get ratings/hits to their site, or part of a serious documentary etc), but its a shit and wrong thing to be doing in any circumstance. But TMZ are blatantly scum.

I believe it was part of a Confidential documentary looking into the life and death of Miss Elizabeth, quite some time after it happened. That's a very different context from airing it the next day on a gossip show, though I'm not sure I would have done it if I were in the WWE's shoes. But I really have a hard time stomaching the likes of TMZ. And yes, Mike, TMZ is like an American version of Heat, but on TV.

[Cewsh]

Haha! Right I was only pissing about right. But Jesus JP! Saying things like heroin probably wasn't the first thing he was addicted to blah blah blah is a very dated concept and as a person who works with people with addictions in a city riddled with smackheads and drunks and people I work with regularly kill themselves.

You've mentioned similar things before about where you work. What do you do for a living?


I'm a bit younger than you and I've been noticing that too. It's part of why I'm barely ever here anymore. It's creepy at times, to be honest.

Agreed.

[WizoOzz]

I wanted to do less of an "express my condolences," deal here - because while yes it is sad for anyone to lose their child, it is even moreso when that person losing his child is one of the greatest of all time in something you've had interest in ever since you were able to form memories - and more a clarification on addiction issues, due to my own personal dealings with a drug addict (being involved with an addict for the better part of a decade, and married for the majority of that time).

For people who haven't had to deal with addicts, it's hard not to see it as a black-and-white, fixable issue. It isn't that simple. From my experience in dealing with that lifestyle, there are typically issues that create a void which needs to be filled by a substance - an emptiness that feels less empty when you're fucked up. It isn't just heroin or opiates - it's any substance including alcohol, tobacco, to non-substances like gambling, to even food and compulsive activities. I'm not going to go the bullshit route (IMO) of it's a disease. A disorder, sure, that was learned and integrated with habitual repetitions over time. As it pertains to those activities the pleasure centers begin to not just expect said substances or physical interactions, but eventually develop a need for them to be normal. It's easy to go from recreational use to everyday use, easier to go from everyday use to abuse, and easier still to go from abuse to addiction.

It's pretty obvious that the life specifically of a traveling workman - be they wrestler, circus performer, or even salesman - could leave a void in the life of a child. My ex-wife never really knew her father. That was one void. She didn't have much of a childhood because she had to take care of her handicapped brother - another type of void expanded when he passed away and her use escalated. Sure, there were other factors involved in my ex-wife's case - her family wasn't really all that unopposed to typical substance abuse, and I had to deal with marijuana use on a daily basis even though I didn't partake. They also bought the girls alcohol on their 18th birthdays and the like. So, sure, there's some questionable moral inventory going on there.

However, for a kid whose dad is on the road the majority of the time, and to see that man - again - considered by some to arguably to be the best in his craft of all time, and basically not just have to idolize him because he's your dad, but also because he's in that field that you're overwhelmingly interested in. It adds a whole other layer of pressure and in effect, another hole that needs to be filled.

I don't want to turn this into a PSA or something like that, but anyone having issues that wants to get clean should find and go to meetings or support groups for their vice. They're all that I've seen that helps addicts truly recover. If they keep going back they eventually get it. Granted, in some ways it's a replacement habit for the drugs or vice of choice, but if it weren't that, it'd be suboxone, or any other manner of "replacement therapy" that gets utilized more and more frequently these days (to the detriment of the addict, again, IMO).

I say that not as an addict, but as someone who's seen the lifestyle.

I've said my piece.

[Cewsh]

Really cool of you to post that, man. Thanks. :yes:

[MikeHunt]

Not going to pretend it's my field of expertise, but do many people actually start on Heroin and if not, are they not already addicted when they try it? If it's a dated concept that's probably I'm dated, but what is the thinking now?

Fair play with your work, can't be easy. :yes:

In Glasgow/Scotland as a whole its not that uncommon. Some part of Glasgow are genuinely like a 3rd world country and life expectancy is around mid 50's. Not all of this is to do with heroin but it is a large part of the problem, drink is still by far the biggest issue here. The amount of people addicted to heroin in this city that state it is the first drug they used is surprisingly high. This is due to the culture of the drug's use in parts of the city where smoking heroin is like smoking a joint to the rest of us. It's just normal to them.

The only other studies i have ever seen where this is similar is of middle/upper middle class people in the usa, to which i believe Reid would fall into? Many believe that this is due to the prescription opiates abuse culture that exists in USA, which i'm sure DVDA could tell you all about! :lol:

That's really why i have think the way i do and my lack of empathy toward these kind of deaths probably comes for being completely desensitized to them as i see it every other day.


Nobody decides to just start using heroin. It's a buildup.

Depends on if you consider opiate painkillers a gateway to heroin. I see abuse of these as smack addictions for people who still wish to try and function slightly in society.


You've mentioned similar things before about where you work. What do you do for a living?


I'm an addictions worker for homeless people with drug and alcohol problems.

[Cewsh]

All nonsense aside, it's really great that you do that, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for it.

[Vice]

That works so well with your John Cena avatar, looking all disgruntled by having to dish out respect.

[MikeHunt]

cheers. it's not really that hard a job once you get used to being told to fuck off and regular non engagement. however, for every 100 times that happens you get one person that wants help and to support them to change their life is seriously fucking amazing. but in the 3/4 years i've been doing it thats honestly happened about 6 times and i've worked with over 150 people. that shows the grip that addiction from booze to fags to smack really has on people.

[Vandal]

cheers. it's not really that hard a job once you get used to being told to fuck off and regular non engagement. however, for every 100 times that happens you get one person that wants help and to support them to change their life is seriously fucking amazing. but in the 3/4 years i've been doing it thats honestly happened about 6 times and i've worked with over 150 people. that shows the grip that addiction from booze to fags to smack really has on people.
I work in a rehab and totally understand ya. They have no self-discipline, no sense of personal responsibility. They want everything given to them without the work, until they are ready to change and not play bs games.

[Kev]

I know this isn't the place for it, but I worked with homeless people and those who struggled with alcohol and drugs for years in trying to help them find work. I found it extremely rewarding work to do but I found that there were two things that really made it difficult.

1) The lack of willingness to change their life circumstances. (Would rather live for their social security benefits, even when offered a lot of jobs with bells and whistles)

2) The red tape around the contracts of finding people work. In Australia the mentality is "any job will do, just get people into one" yet I made the extra effort to search for jobs that were more appealing to the individual, and while my managers weren't fond of it initially, they found that my results were the most long-lasting.

I had to leave though, I found that the organisation was doing far too many immoral things on the side and claiming government fees that weren't right to.

Kudos to you both though.

[Kev]

Oh, and no man should ever have to bury their son. Can't help but feel terrible for Ric and his family.

[Defrost]

Autopsy is back. It was a heroin overdose

[Cewsh]

Fucking drag.

Where was he even getting it on his first tour of Japan?

[Defrost]

He probably got it once he got back to the States. Sounds like going home was the worst thing for him since that was were all the bad influences were.