WWE RAW March 11 2013

[greebull]

-New Age Outlaws vs. 'Rhodes' Scholars
-Brock Lesnar will appear to answer HHH's WM challenge.
-Will Big Show challenge The Shield to a match at WM? (Or vice versa?)
-Will there be some physicality between Punk and Undertaker?
-FANNN.. DAAAHHNNG.. GOOOOO!

[VHS]

I'll be missing the Old School a little bit tonight.

[Jacknife]

I'm most interested to see the Paul Bearer tribute. Hope it's more than the video they posted on YouTube.

[StoneColdWWE316]

Chris Jericho is back tonight, I hope they do the Paul Bearer Tribute during RAW.

[Andy]

No Rock tonight? Disappointing although bizarrely I think the feud will probably be helped by a lack of interaction until the last couple of weeks.

Can't imagine Taker will do a huge amount so lets just have Cena wrestle Punk for the next three weeks.

[StoneColdWWE316]

I am hoping for some Undertaker/CM Punk interaction.

[T.I (uh oh)]

Anyone think they'll let Punk crash the Paul Bearer tribute to get some cheap heat? Would be a good way to make things personal for Taker...

[Cewsh]

That would be pretty fucked up of them.

[Andy]

Well they let him take the piss out of Lawler's heart attack barely a minute after he got back. Wouldn't be surprised to see Heyman wander down the ramp, chalked up, crarrying an urn and a shit eating grin.

[VHS]

Well they let him take the piss out of Lawler's heart attack barely a minute after he got back. Wouldn't be surprised to see Heyman wander down the ramp, chalked up, crarrying an urn and a shit eating grin.

I'd be ok with this scenario. Any "interruption" during the Bearer tribute would be that kind of poor taste WWE likes to pull now and then.

[Ochoa]

The Outlaws are wrestling again,eh?

[Rip]

You didn't know?

[Hero!]

Close the thread, Rip wins.

[Jacknife]

It would be even better if Heyman and Punk interrupt the Bearer tribute, only for the lights to go out and then when they come back on Bearer and Taker are standing behind them.

[Hero!]

Is Bearer going to be propped up on a stick?

[StoneColdWWE316]

Looking forward also to The Outlaws back in the Ring.

If the Paul Bearer Tribute takes place during RAW I hope CM Punk does not interrupt it.

[Jacknife]

Is Bearer going to be propped up on a stick?

Hologram.

[Ochoa]

You didn't know?

Why you son of a... that was really smart.

[One Man Gang]

Paul Bearer's sons are in Indianapolis at RAW tonight, so if Punk and Heyman take a shot at Bearer, it will likely have been cleared by them first.

[Hero!]

Commercial on USA just said the show will open with Taker paying tribute to Bearer.

Do it classy, WWE

[mth]

As long as it's been cleared with his family, I wouldn't be bothered by Punk/Heyman doing something regarding Bearer to get heat. I wouldn't have them go too overboard but maybe a low-blow type of line in a promo (ala JoMo's "Oh wait, Hawk's dead!" to Animal). Something that makes you want to punch them in the face.

[Kimura Kid]

HAHAHA!!!! Chicago Made Punk!!

[Hotbeef-Injection]

Oh man, dick move! Perfect heel stuff!

[Ryse]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW that takes balls. Awesome. :lol:

[JT4104]

Congrats to the writer who finally got everyone to boo Punk here. Good move on his part

[Hero!]

HEAT YESSSSSSS

Rollins, please don't lose. The shield have taken too many beatings lately.

[Slutty McWhoreface]

Poop.

[Hero!]

Srsly Rollins, don't lose

[Slutty McWhoreface]

I was expecting Punk to get Raw-Dog with it.. glad he didn't. maybe they can have Orton come out & tell everyone that he's in hell with Guerrero.

[JT4104]

Srsly Rollins, don't lose
I'd be quite alright with a dq finish here. H

[Defrost]

That Roman guy in Shield looks like the bad guy from the first season of Farscape

[JT4104]

In the Sheild's defense....Show did attack them first.

[Hero!]

Brilliant booking

[JT4104]

So...Vickie/Maddox are face now? When did this happen?

[Ryse]

Eh, they're more tweener dick to everyone.

[JT4104]

Bryan/Ziggler for possibly 15 mins...I'll take it.

[VHS]

Ziggler needs a win here.

[Ryse]

I hope one of the moments we wont have to remember is when Paul was buried in badly edited cement.

[JT4104]

I hope one of the moments we wont have to remember is when Paul was buried in badly edited cement.what about the meat locker or the flying wheelchair

[The Law]

King calling AJ "target" gives me a great opportunity to remind everyone of how awesome Lawler used to be:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R4BWXnrZ1o

Ignore the idiot talking at the end. Yes, that's Jerry Lawler calling Goldust a fag and saying his young daughter is a slut. Much more fun than the cartoon character we get now.

[Slutty McWhoreface]

Next week on RAW: Bryan vs. Rhodes - Loser has to shave... winner's pubic thatch.

Book it.

[Kimura Kid]

Finally!! Great Match to boot

[Slutty McWhoreface]

Wow. Dolphin won. Caught me off-guard. YIPEE SKIPEE!

Man i'd love to fold A.J. -up like an accordion.

[JT4104]

So when does someone step up and take on Big E??/

[Hotbeef-Injection]

Big E needs to learn how to deliver that move. The other guy's head never gets even close to the floor.

[Hero!]

Ziggler winning a match is so rare these days that I'm actually surprised.

[Fanny Batter]

That'll be the tag title match at 'Mania then. Wonder what Jericho will do, maybe revisit th NXT backstory with Barrett?

[JT4104]

Big E needs to learn how to deliver that move. The other guy's head never gets even close to the floor.
at this point maybe the dominator would be a better move for him and with his size it could look rather devastating

[Slutty McWhoreface]

Big E. looks like a retarded Carlton Banks on Steroids. And since Cena is the early 90's version of Will Smith; style/personality-wise... they should be besties...reluctant besties... but besties, nonetheless.

Mark Henry can fill the Uncle Phil-role and they can form a stable.

[Slutty McWhoreface]

How many times a day do you figure Albert contemplates suicide??

[JT4104]

Hell yea....

[Slutty McWhoreface]

I want her to dance on my face,

[Hero!]

Tensai changing the attire again. Now he's in pants?!

[Hero!]

I'm still not sure I even get this gimmick

[Slutty McWhoreface]

This fucking Fagdango shit is almost untolerable... this whole storyline is gonna culminate at Wrestlemania, with: "Fandango Unchained."

[Peter Griffin]

Big E. looks like a retarded Carlton Banks on Steroids. And since Cena is the early 90's version of Will Smith; style/personality-wise... they should be besties...reluctant besties... but besties, nonetheless.


They are besties behind the scenes as far as i know.

[Kimura Kid]

Fanadango was must see tv!!.......Not!!!


They are besties behind the scenes as far as i know.

Yeah Cena took Big E under his wing.

[Fanny Batter]

Fandango is a top bloke.

[Zacharie]

I think the gimmick is alright so far. Reminds me of Zoolander but with dancing.

[Hotbeef-Injection]

This Fandango stuff is getting pretty old pretty quick

[Hero!]

What is this shit ass 7 nation army tune? Fuck the fuckers who made it.

[virms]

Get on line artur

[Kimura Kid]

This is good!!!! Rhode Scholars are very entertaining and extremely talented!!

F'n Hilarious!!!

[Hero!]

Ahagajagajgahajagah YES RHODE SCHOLARS FTW

[Ryse]

Oh my god. Team Rhodes Scholars stealing the Outlaws schtick was fucking perfect. :lol:

[Slutty McWhoreface]

This "Taste & Decency" shit with Rhodes Scholars is classic. 'We've got two words for ya: YOU'RE WELCOME." Love it. It's obvious where Sandow is headed, but Rhodes had better be well utilized in the near future as well ,because he "Ooozes Machismo, mang."

Not sure why every one wants to see him face Goldust at Mania... if you ask me, he deserves better than that. I'm hoping Rhodes Scholars win the Straps at Mania. And for the love of F.. Uh-OH... LESNAR!!!!

[Ryse]

Bork Lazer does not have time for your fucking nostalgia match.

[Hero!]

LESNAR

DUN DUNDUNDUN DUNDUN DUN DUN DUN

[Hero!]

Love Lesnar sending a message to Hunter through his friends.

[JT4104]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[JT4104]

please lord do not make it a mma style match....no match where Brock can look dominant only to lose in the end much like extreme rules 12

[Hotbeef-Injection]

Guesses on the stipulation? It won't be anything that involves anything high-risk like a ladder match. I'm thinking Last Man Standing or I Quit.

[Kimura Kid]

Anyone else notice that Lesnar seemed to smash BA with a solid knee to the dome piece, He looked a bit concerned about it after it landed as well.

Guess it's part of the Job. But I also feel like WWE is watching Lesnar like a Hawk with his MMA background and unwillingness to play by the rules.

[The Law]

Possible Lesnar Stipulations:

-If he wins he gets to shoot Triple H with a shotgun.
-If he wins Triple H has to do his laundry.
-If he wins Triple H has to be called "Terry Rezina" for the rest of time.
-If he wins every WWE show starts with a replay of Triple H losing to Ultimate Warrior at Wrestlemania XII.
-If he wins Triple H gets locked in a room and has to watch his match with Scott Steiner from Royal Rumble 2003 for the next year.
-If he wins he gets to nail Stephanie.

[Kimura Kid]

Mark Henry has the same issue as Billy Gun.

They dont have foreheads, They have 5 heads

[JT4104]

I think Kofi is about due for a heel run....this face thing run is over for now.

[Slutty McWhoreface]

They are besties behind the scenes as far as i know.

That's eerie. I had no idea. They can even throw Layla into the mix as WWE's answer to "Hilary."

I seriously want to see this idea come to fruition.

[Ryse]

Man that catch was incredible. The height Kofi got, and for Mark to catch him was impressive.

[Slutty McWhoreface]

Please...Dear God NO... keep Cody away from Kaitlyn... OOH.. BELLAS ARE BACK!!!

[VHS]

Bellas are back... :blah:

[JT4104]

Sorry Ryback....they never wake up

[Ryse]

With the state that the Divas division is in, Bellas are a welcome return.

[Slutty McWhoreface]

I am SO fucking psyched about my sexy little Bellas being back...PHEW... hopefully that puts the kibosh on any plans of pairing him with Kaitlyn and her freakishly short carny-arms.

Hopefully.

[Fanny Batter]

They weren't gone long were they? Septemberish was it? The Rhodes Scholars are brilliant, they've been so underused since the Rumble.

[JT4104]

Well at least Cesaro doesn't have to be the lamb again.

[VHS]

Ryback is so pathetically bad, he can't even do a dang clothesline.

[JT4104]

whoop his ass Big Mark

[Ryse]

Man who did Drew piss off this time?

[Slutty McWhoreface]

It's gonna suck Rhinoceros dong when Henry does the job to Reebok at Wrestlemania.

I was hoping the hype was wearing down almost completely given somewhat mediocre crowd reactions in certain venues, and that he would be relegated to Saturday mornings for a tad.

Side note: Imagine how many injuries would occur if Reebok & Henry were a tag team? we're talking - ROOKIE ROAD WARRIOR PROPORTIONS!!! Oh well...

[Andy]

I'm probably totally alone in this but I'd like to see them put a bit of time into actually making Tensai/Brodus a team. They've had 10 minutes the last few weeks but about 8 minutes of it has been taken up with dancing. Put them in a match. They're both good wrestlers.

[Andy]

I'm half an hour behind here and ahahahahaha fucking epic from Rhodes Scholars

[maxxmisery]

I'm also far behind, but why did Fandango call Justin Roberts Joshua?

weird

[Andy]

And The Shield are so fucking fun to watch. Love them.

[Kimura Kid]

I'm also far behind, but why did Fandango call Justin Roberts Joshua?

weird


lmfao, I know he said Joshua but I didn't put 2 and 2 together. too funny!

[Ryse]

Man, WWE productions brought their A game with that Rock/Cena package. That was a damn good one, as should be expected during Wrestlemania season.

[Jacknife]

lmfao, I know he said Joshua but I didn't put 2 and 2 together. too funny!

He also called Lilian "Jillian" on Smackdown.

[Slutty McWhoreface]

I really dig Ricardo's shtick, but I just don't see it sustaining any sort of longevity as long as he remains a face. I wonder if/when he turns; who he's gonna dog Del Rio out for... Heel Sin Cara perhaps?

Man... I know Alberto is World champ, but Cesaro really has become jobber to the stars, right alongside Barrett... which wouldn't be AS much of a travesty if it weren't for the fact that they're both the middle-card champs. I wonder if this is all still Vinny Mac's logic, or if Trips has any say on that sorta thing yet...

Yowza... why... back in my time, I remember when it was an honor to be the Intercontinental Champion, and most of the time it usually meant that you were next in line for the BIG TIME... or AT LEAST be on the same echelon as the World champ & get to compete on a " HO...NUVVA...LEVEL."

Like many have stated on this subject: It's insulting to not only the wrestler himself... but to the fans as well.

[VHS]

I really dig Ricardo's shtick, but I just don't see it sustaining any sort of longevity as long as he remains a face. I wonder if/when he turns; who he's gonna dog Del Rio out for... Heel Sin Cara perhaps?

Man... I know Alberto is World champ, but Cesaro really has become jobber to the stars, right alongside Barrett... which wouldn't be AS much of a travesty if it weren't for the fact that they're both the middle-card champs. I wonder if this is all still Vinny Mac's logic, or if Trips has any say on that sorta thing yet...

I mean... any gimp can see that when the IC/US champs are being made to look so weak-;week-in-week-out CONSISTENTLY... from not only house shows around the globe; but on TV each and every week- that this doesn't exactly give them type of auras that an up * coming main eventer should have. How in the blue fuck are any of these so-called "Up and comers" supposed to be considered any sort of a legit threat to the WWE/World Champs when all of their matches end the same each and every week: with them flat on their backs-staring-up at the lights...or even worse-- tapping-out to respective champions submission finishers?

It's very frustrating. AT LEAST protect them via count-outs/DQ, etc...

LAME.

All you do is piss and moan.

[Kimura Kid]

Orton is so amazing in the ring, Such a fucking stud!! no homo.

That superplex was a thing of beauty. From the Digging the foot into the rope, all the way to the delayed hook & dump.

Just awesome!!

[Matthew]

All you do is piss and moan.the worst part is he thinks he is witty and hilarious. but don't worry vhs. he is one of those guys who leaves right after the show is over because they cannot actually discuss things rationally.

love raw. great time for everyone

[Kimura Kid]

the worst part is he thinks he is witty and hilarious. but don't worry vhs. he is one of those guys who leaves right after the show is over because they cannot actually discuss things rationally.

love raw. great time for everyone

Yikes, Sounds like me. But I don't leave.....I just lurk. That's prolly worse.

[Slutty McWhoreface]

All you do is piss and moan.

Uh-oh... someone seems all OOGIE. Don't be a bitter, witter, ol' VCR. :( It sounds to me like you could use a little Head Cleaner...perhaps that would make you feel a little better there, tiger...

Then again... you strike me as the kinda individual that has never had head before... and if you have... you probably had to pay for it.

Just "Rewind" and relax there, gimmick boy.

[Matthew]

Yikes, Sounds like me. But I don't leave.....I just lurk. That's prolly worse.not at all sir. keep up the good times!

[Hero!]

man i love watching trailers for all these crappy movies, woo.

[Tainted Eclipse]

does wwe expect anyone in the world to sit down and pay attention to this show for 3 hours.

could the endless recaps and trailers be a legitimate strategy to get people's attentions wandering so they go on twitter and tweet stuff about wwe so wwe can talk about how many tweets are about them?

[wardy]

Wade Barrett is awesome.

[Ryse]

Oh god...Brad..just...just stop.

[Hero!]

is cole high?

[maxxmisery]

how awkward was that Jericho and Maddox segment?

[dunno]

That was pretty damn bad.

[wardy]

What the fuck just happened?

[Ryse]

He started strong with the whole Super Hero Super Management Team, but then...my..my head. That was old NXT give you a word and you make a promo of it level bad.

[Hotbeef-Injection]

Brad Maddox must suck a mean dick. No other way to explain this.

[Hero!]

so uhhhh, quick Q

who's the divas champ? when's the last time we had a wimminz match on RAW? I genuinely can't remember any recently.

[Ryse]

Kaitlyn is champ but as for last Divas match, yeah, drawin a blank.

[Hero!]

im not just being thick here, right? i genuinely cant think of the last time we had 2 women wrestle each other on Monday Night RAW

[Ryse]

Well I think like 2 weeks ago we had Brodus/Tensai/Naomi vs Primo/Epico/Rosa, but that wasn't a dedicated Divas match....or was that Smackdown?

[Hero!]

who knows, no one else watches SD anyway. :(

[Hero!]

I swear Del Rio look like Seth Rollins with that beard & hair.

[Ryse]

Jesus, you're right, he looks like Seth. :lol: This is awesome though.

[Slutty McWhoreface]

Oh Matthew... of course I leave after it's over. this is after-all a "Raw discussion" thread, am I right? Unlike you, and other oh-so popular dudes(and i'm sure you are in real life as well) I don't troll wrestling forums & like a genuine loser; attempt to delve deep-into keyboard arguments with people that don't live on here.

And this part i'm not saying in an attempt to be funny(since I do think that I am and all, right Matthew?) but I feel sorry for you; and people like VHS. It's supposed to be a place for wrestling fans to gather & swap opinions, etc... and it's obviously losers like you guys that form your little pathetic nerd-cliques; and use, of all places- wrestling forums to vent your frustrations with life, and how lonely you really are. It's obvious that you hate yourself pointdexter ... so why not do society a favor by hanging yourself in your closet?

I admit that I used to get baited pretty easily, and quite frankly- it's FAR too easy to insult the likes of you... but i'm a 35 year-old man now... Joking around is one thing, but swapping insults and acting like a keyboard thug is another... it's SERIOUSLY( i'm using caps, so you know I mean business) pathetic. We don't know one another(And I thank sweet baby Jesus for that)... and taking one of my opinions, jokes, etc.. that is harmless and has NOTHING to do with you; and shit-talking me about it from behind a computer screen--- God knows how many miles away-- is the lamest fucking thing that a person can do.. well... outside of utilizing a VCR gimmick on a wrestling forum.

So that is my take on everything, ladies. I will not continue to clutter this public forum which is supposed to be about wrestling, with personal attacks/responses aimed at several OBVIOUSLY extra-chromosomal types who in their spare time probably dole-out blowjobs to strange men in Wafflehouse bathrooms due to the severity of your loneliness factor.

I await all of the oh-so clever responses with baited-breath. You will simply be wasting your time losers. I will continue to utilize these forums for their INTENDED use- Wrestling discussions.... which, in case you weren't aware of- work in a "Give & take" manner. But your Troglodyte approaches of - " YER STUPID N NOT AT ALL FUNNY! YER SUPPOSED TO BE ON HERE 24/7 LIKE US, YOU'RE DOIN' IT ALL WRONG YOU LOSER!!"

I sincerely do feel sorry for you pointdexters. As for everyone else on here that actually has a life and "Gets it:" I look forward to future discussions about the highs and(at times -EXTREME) Lows of Monday Night Raw... AND- wrestling-alike.

[Matthew]

I admit that I used to get baited pretty easily,
lol

[Zacharie]

You guys get too emotional over this stuff. Just voice your shitty opinions and move on.

[McBain]

Well that was an enjoyable read.

[Hero!]

typical mexican, jumping in from behind when his esse is down

[One Man Gang]

That's enough. Drop it or leave the thread.

[Hero!]

ab.dBAKJDBJhlsdjJBSNA BjkJKKHJjhjhjkdsa kANE

[Fanny Batter]

Shouldn't they be trying to sell that $70 PPV they're promoting instead of these bloody films?! 4 different films getting promoted, and thus far 3 matches. Brilliant.

[maxxmisery]

I wonder if they will ever expand the "We the People" thing into a stable by adding a couple more guys. Would be kinda interesting, but could also kill careers if they use it to get new guys over.

[Hero!]

you've already bought the ppv. they dont need to sell it, just book it and you will watch

http://www.zurich4you.ch/UserFiles/images/jim-morrison.jpg

[McBain]

Do any of the films look even remotely good?

The last trailer I watched from them (think it had that one-time cop bf of Phoebe from Friends in it) didn't seem to know whether it wanted to be a redemption tail, a comedy or an action drama. :lol:

[Hero!]

4 minutes till 11. 2 minutes for punk's entrance, 2 for kane's....5 minutes of wrestling?

[_me]

I wonder if they will ever expand the "We the People" thing into a stable by adding a couple more guys. Would be kinda interesting, but could also kill careers if they use it to get new guys over.

It would be a good way to get a last run for some older guys too. Christian, R-Truth (he's the Herman Cain, can talk about Uzi-becki-becki-stan-stan),. etc. Any older superstar who can complain that "They took our jobs!" and just want their old WWE back. Maybe even turn Lawler back to the heel he needs to be.

[Zacharie]

What was everyone's favorite movie trailer tonight.

[Slutty McWhoreface]

It's interesting to know that at any moment, Del Rio can authentically snap somebody's arm off without even batting an eyelash. I just saw online one of his MMA fights.. dude was pretty nasty. He's definitely one of the "Real deals" in terms of real ass-kickers in the company.

Now that MMA is more mainstream; it would be fucking delightful to see RAW hold another one of their "Brawl for ALL" tournys, just to see Lesnar kill a bunch of people, and Del Rio as well... because a lot of people don't know about his background. Actually... I wonder who else would fair well if WWE went all-out with one of those fucking things. (Without having to utilize bing, who won that again? Was it Bart Gunn?... or was it Tank Abbot?? memory has slipped noticeably.

Obviously, as much of a whore as Vinny Mac is, the ONLY reason he would never do another one of those is because half of his roster would probably wind-up in comas and he would have to rely on his B- Team to carry the flagship for a while.

It would be worth it though just to see Santino Marella as WWE Champion... and perhaps Zack Ryder as World Heavyweight Champion...

I'll bet that just gave some IWC geek such a rager that it ripped through his corduroy pants.

EDIT: BUTTERBEAN KNOCKED- OUT BART GUN I BELIEVE..

[Hero!]

A FUCKING COMMERCIAL?

[Ryse]

A commercial break now!? The fuck?

[Hero!]

It's interesting to know that at any moment, Del Rio can authentically snap somebody's arm off without even batting an eyelash. I just saw online one of his MMA fights.. dude was pretty nasty. He's definitely one of the "Real deals" in terms of real ass-kickers in the company.

Now that MMA is more mainstream; it would be fucking delightful to see RAW hold another one of their "Brawl for ALL" tournys, just to see Lesnar kill a bunch of people, and Del Rio as well... because a lot of people don't know about his background. Actually... I wonder who else would fair well if WWE went all-out with one of those fucking things. (Without having to utilize bing, who won that again? Was it Bart Gunn?... or was it Tank Abbot?? memory has slipped noticeably.

Obviously, as much of a whore as Vinny Mac is, the ONLY reason he would never do another one of those is because half of his roster would probably wind-up in comas and he would have to rely on his B- Team to carry the flagship for a while.

I would be worth it though just to see Santino Marella as WWE Champion... and perhaps Zack Ryder as World Heavyweight Champion...

I'll bet that just gave some IWC geek such a rager that it ripped through his corduroy pants.

cody, ziggler, and swagger all have amateur wrestling backgrounds. Henry & Big E are legit world record holding power lifters. could be fun.

[Slutty McWhoreface]

It would be a good way to get a last run for some older guys too. Christian, R-Truth (he's the Herman Cain, can talk about Uzi-becki-becki-stan-stan),. etc. Any older superstar who can complain that "They took our jobs!" and just want their old WWE back. Maybe even turn Lawler back to the heel he needs to be.

It would be SO awkward for Truth to be a member, but that's part of what would make it so intriguing. Then.. the EXTREME racist line would be somewhat blurred, & people wouldn't know what to think. I'm all for it.

If it's just a bunch of white dudes-then forget about it." But the Truth angle could be epic. It would also give him something to do. His talent is being wasted away at the moment.

[maxxmisery]

Awesome awesome way to end Raw, loving this Taker/Kane/Punk and the urn business.

[Kimura Kid]

King: "That is not his property"

WTF?? LOL

[Hero!]

punk taker is going to be fucking AMAZING,

20-1

Best.In.The.World.

[Vandal]

Oh shit! Punk has the URN!!!!

[Slutty McWhoreface]

Punk is SO good at being an evil bastard. That ending sequence just COMPLETELY sold the entire angle. Punk really is the best in the world...er.. WWE anyways.

My ONLY complaint... he should be walking into Mania as the WWE champ still.

[DaSaintFan]

King: "That is not his property"

WTF?? LOL

usually i don't gripe about Jerry's comments, as I enjoy him as the color man, but damn that was just the "stupidest" line I think Jerry could have used.

But they definitely ended raw the "right" way. Give Percy the "send off" via the match ending, and letting Punk be the evil bastard afterwards

[One Man Gang]

Anyone else want Punk to gain powers from the Urn to help him face Taker at Mania?

[The Law]

Paul Bearer dying has added so much heat to this feud. Punk knocking out Kane with the urn was excellent. That's old-school shit right there. I remember Michael Hayes saying on the roundtable that too many guys on the current roster are afraid to get real heat. Punk is definitely not one of them. Who wouldn't pay to see Punk get his ass handed to him after what he just pulled? I kind of wish he had smashed the urn, but I get the feeling he's going to carry it around with him until Wrestlemania instead.

That was actually a great combination of paying tribute to Bearer while also furthering the angle. Punk was disrespectful, but not in a way that I would consider truly tasteless. Great stuff overall.

[McBain]

Sorry but R-Truth is not being wasted at all. Granted he can work a mic, but his in-ring routine is beyond stale and cringeworthy to watch. He's older than he looks too, you know. Nearly 40 if I remember right.

[mth]

41

[wardy]

I see OMG couldn't make his mind up either.

[Vandal]

Anyone else want Punk to gain powers from the Urn to help him face Taker at Mania?
:yes:

[_me]

It would be SO awkward for Truth to be a member, but that's part of what would make it so intriguing. Then.. the EXTREME racist line would be somewhat blurred, & people wouldn't know what to think. I'm all for it.

If it's just a bunch of white dudes-then forget about it." But the Truth angle could be epic. It would also give him something to do. His talent is being wasted away at the moment.

That was my thought. They could do the "See we're not racist. We have a black guy with us."

[maxxmisery]

Gave it a 7, but meant to give it an 8 (I've been drinking a bit tonight)

good buildup to Mania, Ziggler and Bryan was a damn fine match. Taker/Kane/Punk was wonderful. Rhodes Scholars stuff was good.

Jericho/Miz/Barrett was decent, but the Maddox thing was weird as hell.

[One Man Gang]

I see OMG couldn't make his mind up either.

Paul Bearer's death has me emotional and all over the place.

[Deka]

This show sucked. Possibly one of the worst Mania builds in recent history.

[Slutty McWhoreface]

cody, ziggler, and swagger all have amateur wrestling backgrounds. Henry & Big E are legit world record holding power lifters. could be fun.


Oooh, totes. forgot about about Swagger, Hero... him vs. Big E. would be intriguing to say the very least. would have to have weight/size classes this time if it were at all feasible.

So, in that case- Ziggs vs. Rhodes could be a classic.. as so would a returning Shelton Benjamin vs. Cesaro...

Oh well... Pipe dreams, eh?

[Zacharie]

5/10.

There was very little I cared about in this episode. It still feels like we're just dragging ass into WM.

Everything that isn't Rock/Cena, Taker/Punk, HHH/Brock seems uninteresting at the moment. And unfortunately, that means most of Raw isn't interesting since Cena and Punk are the only two active guys out of those six. Having all of these part timers take up the main storylines really screws with the momentum of the active guys.

I actually can't wait for WM to be over. I was diggin' the product when we had Ryback, Punk, Dolph, Bryan, and Shield tearing shit up. Now, with the exception of Punk and Cena, the rest of the roster is just being dragged along for the ride. It's even gotten to the point where Cesaro and Bryan (who are both champions) have to job to the guys who are main eventers that got bumped down by part timers.

For me it's just a crappy setup. I'm all for Taker coming back once a year for his streak, but other than that I wish Mania was exclusive to our full time superstars.

That's just me though. I'm sure you guys can talk all night about how this is good for the business. That's cool, but I still think it's dull.

[The Law]

Wrestling is supposed to be a sport where athletes pretend to hurt each other and people think it is real. In the Brawl for All, they actually hurt each other and everyone thought it was fake. The Brawl for All injured a large portion of the roster, wasted valuable TV time that could have been spent on actual wrestling and putting people over, and wrecked the credibility of Steve Williams, who could have been a main eventer if pushed properly. What did we get out of it? Bart Gunn vs. Butterbean at Wrestlemania 15, in a match that was legitimately dangerous for Gunn. They made him fight a guy twice his size who was an actual professional boxer.

Bringing back the Brawl for All is seriously one of the most dreadful ideas I've ever heard. First, Brock Lesnar is not going to engage in legitimate fights on free TV, or in any environment where he isn't making $1 million/fight. Second, the fights are incredibly boring. If these guys were good legitimate fighters, they would be doing that instead. The crowd absolutely crapped on the original Brawl for All fights. I don't have ratings breakdowns from back then, but I'm willing to guess that hundreds of thousands of people changed over to WCW while they were going on.

So in the Brawl for All, we have a dull, dangerous event that risks both injury and embarrassment to key members of the roster. It wouldn't make money and it would probably get people legitimately hurt. I didn't think anyone could top "Bring back The Nation" as the idea that annoys me most, but this seems to have done it.

[StoneColdWWE316]

RAW was not bad overall tonight. Taker/Kane/Punk stuff was good and the Tribute to Paul Bearer. I was surprised Cena was not there tonight. I am interested to see what stipulation Brock Lesnar has in store for HHH. I think the Wrestlemania build has been fine overall. The 6-Man Tag seems like a lock,I don't see Ryback/Mark Henry happening on Friday,and maybe we get a Barrett/Jericho IC Title Match as well.

[Slutty McWhoreface]

That was my thought. They could do the "See we're not racist. We have a black guy with us."


Love it. If this were 1996, Vince would just get stereotype-crazy with it.. he would make Truth reform The Nation of Domination... Del Rio would reform Los Boricuas alongside Ricardo, Sin cara & Mysterio...As for Swagger & 'We the people"... why... they would be the faces OF COURSE! I was looking back on a lot of the racist shit WWE has gotten away with in the past and it makes my guts turn.. Triple H and his racist tirade against Booker T, Dibiase's treatment of Virgil(though... that's what "Heels" did back then) Vince calling Cena his " NIgga", etc.. it's endless really.

But, it was even worse in the southern territories(for obvious reasons) the way Flair talked about ANY of his colored opponents was jaw-dropping looking back at it now... I just shudder to think what would've happened if Kevin Sullivan got his wish, and Harlem Heat's original gimmick of being slaves to " Wealthy Southern Gentleman" -Colonel Robert parker; complete with shackles and tattered clothes actually came to fruition... I'm white, and this is ALL excellent ammo for why my race is despised. Black President or not, some of these blind -who claim that racism is far behind us, need a fucking Lobotomy. Racism is here to stay. Only... there's been a shift in the minority report, and things could very easily take a nasty turn for the much worse virtually at any moment. Um... yeah... not sure how I got into all of that... SO.. WRESTLING HUH??? THAT RACIST MCMAHON....

[Zacharie]

Damn, it had to be a slow night if people are wanting to see Brawl For All make a comeback. BFA seemed like a cool idea, but that shit was terrible. Now you guys want to see MMA edition because UFC became the cool thing 8 years ago? haha

they should do an xtreme baseball league too

[Slutty McWhoreface]

Wrestling is supposed to be a sport where athletes pretend to hurt each other and people think it is real. In the Brawl for All, they actually hurt each other and everyone thought it was fake. The Brawl for All injured a large portion of the roster, wasted valuable TV time that could have been spent on actual wrestling and putting people over, and wrecked the credibility of Steve Williams, who could have been a main eventer if pushed properly. What did we get out of it? Bart Gunn vs. Butterbean at Wrestlemania 15, in a match that was legitimately dangerous for Gunn. They made him fight a guy twice his size who was an actual professional boxer.

Bringing back the Brawl for All is seriously one of the most dreadful ideas I've ever heard. First, Brock Lesnar is not going to engage in legitimate fights on free TV, or in any environment where he isn't making $1 million/fight. Second, the fights are incredibly boring. If these guys were good legitimate fighters, they would be doing that instead. The crowd absolutely crapped on the original Brawl for All fights. I don't have ratings breakdowns from back then, but I'm willing to guess that hundreds of thousands of people changed over to WCW while they were going on.

So in the Brawl for All, we have a dull, dangerous event that risks both injury and embarrassment to key members of the roster. It wouldn't make money and it would probably get people legitimately hurt. I didn't think anyone could top "Bring back The Nation" as the idea that annoys me most, but this seems to have done it.


Agreed. But, yeah... I can only speak for myself, but It was more of a tongue-in-cheek statement. At the time it was interesting only because of the emergence of UFC... And Vince saw dollar signs in his potential dream match of Steve Williams vs. Steve Williams... the humbling aspect of that, was that Vince underestimated the legitimacy of MMA, so he & a handful of "The boys" who were legit "street tough" wound-up getting embarrassed on live, national television... including the man that Vince stored all of his hope in- Steve "Dr. Death" Williams.

It is too bad the way things turned out.. from a fan's perspective anyways. With "Stone Cold" Steve Austin's star steadfastly on the rise in the WWF; and the obviously- world-renowned, bad-ass/ring technician "Doctor Death" Steve Williams; who, at that time had just finished-up a short stint in ECW; (upon his recent return from All- Japan) alongside his former tag-team partner; the late Terry "Bam- Bam" Gordy-- and was very hot at that moment.

The proposed battle of the two real-life Steve Williams' had the entire industry curious; as Austin would've been a made man after coming out on top in a high-profile feud with a legendary tough guy like "The Doctor"; which then; in-turn-- would've sling-shotted The Rattlesnake right into the main event scene. Unfortunately, Austin had to wait a couple of more years since Doctor Death was knocked-out & simultaneously injured in the third round of the "Brawl for All" tournament by unforeseen wildcard: Bart Gunn... which obviously took the steam out of Williams' proposed push & eventual hyped match-up with Steve Austin.

It would obviously be a lot safer in this era, and hey- whaddya-know, even-- SANCTIONED... but aside from what i'm sure would be a lot of unique & interesting match-ups; the mystique for me, and i'm sure a lot of others. is virtually non-existent in today's day & age. And seeing as there is a variety pack of multiple fighting events available at simply the touch of a button-- almost every other week... fuck it...

[Brian M.]

The build to Lesnar/Triple H was pretty good. The build to Taker/Punk was HOLY SHIT AMAZING. And there was a really great Cena/Rock video. Oh, and The Shield looked strong and that match continued to build.

So really the important build was taken care of tonight. Especially Taker VS Punk...after tonight I don't know how anyone isn't looking forward to that one. It did highly annoy me that Cole buried the Highlight Reel segment. It wasn't even that bad. Yeah Maddox was tripping over his lines a bit, but I think it was intentional and it wouldn't have been that noticeable if Cole wasn't constantly pointing it out. That was a low, low point in the show for me. And I don't get why they are giving Ryback/Henry away on Smackdown, but I suspect that will have a false finish or not happen at all.

Other than those two complaints, and the fact that Ziggler, Jericho and Hell No seem a bit directionless, I enjoyed the show. 7/10.

[Bluegunn]

Brawl for all had potential, but injuries were a problem. Now if they did a greco roman wrestling tourny it would be much safer and interesting to see who could win it. On a side note no Rock or Cena tonight, no complaints really about that.

[Goratrix]

First, Brock Lesnar is not going to engage in legitimate fights on free TV, or in any environment where he isn't making $1 million/fight.

Isn't he already making more than that per non-legitimate fight? Plus, Vince would throw another million at him in a heartbeat if he thought he'd make one in return. I'm not saying it's a good idea, just saying.

[QuoteTheRaven]

Holy shit the Brawl For All was terrible. I can't believe anyone would ever entertain the idea of bringing it back.

[leinz]

Brawl for All is just a bad idea for a pro wrestling show. Most wrestling fans don't enjoy it and I don't see any MMA fans tuning in to see it.

[Andy]

I liked the IC stuff - doesn't exactly take much effort to build a nice little angle does it? Giving it away straight away is a bit odd though, a triple threat would've been a fine Mania match.

And they've been building Ryback/Henry for a few weeks and now they're doing it on Smackdown? Weird.

Enjoyed the show overall though.

[Bennedy]

The best bits were the Bella Twins returning and Brad Maddox being awesome.

Glad the Rhode Scholars are back together as well. They should be the team that beats Team Hell No for the belts.

[Jacknife]

Stopped watching during the Rhodes Scholars vs. Orton/Sheamus match. Hope they go back to 2 hours one day.

[chatty]

I don't think Brock could even fight if he wanted to. He still had a fight contract with the UFC when he left and I'm sure they only let him out because he was doing something that is not in direct competition with his company. If Brock decided to have a fight with someone in WWE then I'm sure the lawyers would be out. Not that its happening anyway.

Brawl for All was terrible anyway, its worse than watching white collar sluggers as most of them have no real combat experience. Yeah, they are big guys and I wouldn't like to pick a fight with any but technically you know they are going to be pretty useless at this as they simply haven't trained to do this. Shit idea that should stay in the scrapheap.

[Doctor Who]

So the main event of Wrestlemania is Cena Vs Rock for the title and we just had a Raw where both guys were not on it and all they did was to promote a 'story so far' video.

Am I the only one who finds that a little fucked up?

[Jacknife]

So the main event of Wrestlemania is Cena Vs Rock for the title and we just had a Raw where both guys were not on it and all they did was to promote a 'story so far' video.

Am I the only one who finds that a little fucked up?

I'm going to say yes.

[Cewsh]

Why? They took a week off of a 6 week build to let the other stories on the show breathe and get a chance to get some attention. As such, they built heavily to Taker/Punk, which needed the time to flesh itself out.

[Cewsh]

And they've been building Ryback/Henry for a few weeks and now they're doing it on Smackdown? Weird.

I seriously doubt we're getting the actual match on Smackdown. It's just going to be an angle to drive the story forward.

Also, Brawl For All. :lol:

[Andy]

They should just do Ryback/Henry/Langston/Lesnar at Mania in the battle of the fucking scary monsters.

[chatty]

Cena/Rock needs no build - they done a year build last year and it sucked so what does it matter if they don't show up this year, it adds nothing to it whatsoever. The match sells itself all thats all they need to book it. I actually enjoyed Raw more without them on it, we got an excellent match in Ziggler/Bryan and the mid-carders got a bit more time even if they didn't do anything with them in regards to build.

[Jay]

A few random thoughts concerning Raw:

Damien Sandow is fucking incredible. He has been for a long, long time now, but I hope he continues to be allowed to show his brilliant mic work. I'm glad he and Rhodes are back together - it's better than them being lost in the midcard shuffle like so many are at the moment.

Brock Lesnar is just such a beast. Love him. And I love the twist of Triple H having to sign the contract blindly. I wonder what the stipulations are, though? Heyman twice said stipulations. Maybe a Street Fight and if Triple H loses he retires?

BELIEVE IN THE SHIELD!

It was so random of Michael Cole to shit all over the Jericho/Miz/Barrett segment. When Jericho was doing his "really?" bit, Cole was saying how bad the segment was, yet not a word was said a couple of weeks back when Sheamus had his awful promo featured around the Oscars.

I'd love to see Cesaro vs Barrett vs Jericho vs Miz at WrestleMania; it'd get four deserving guys on the card in a meaningful match and it'd incorporate what happened on Raw with Miz and Cesaro's recent feud. I don't know if both titles would be on the line though, or rather if Cesaro gets pinned, he loses the US title and if Barrett loses he loses the IC title.

I hope Henry/Ryback for SmackDown! is just a bluff, otherwise what a complete and utter waste.

What they did with Taker/Punk/Kane/Bearer was absolutely played to perfection - it was so spot on, where they were able to get heat on Punk without going too far and being too disrespectful to the memory of Bearer. Punk attacking Kane with the urn was brilliant in particular; it was so old school. I was really sad to hear the news of Paul Bearer passing away, I always thought of him fondly as I look back and I appreciate how the scared the living fucking crap out of me, but the one good thing...I guess, is that it's made Punk/Taker personal, which really needed to be the case, especially after Taker's recent matches at Mania.

Brad Maddox is bloody brilliant. I've liked him ever since he got his own cameraman, but ever since he was attacked by The Shield he's been even better. His commentary on SmackDown! last week was great. His mic work is so different to everyone else's, it really helps him to stand out.

BELLA'S! They get a lot of hate on here for some reason, but I've always been a huge fan of them. I'm not a great fan of the Divas division in general, but it's much better now that the Bella's are back, especially since Kaitlyn needs some strong heels to work with if she's ever going to get over.

Why can't people understand that they need to shine a light on different feuds on the build up to WrestleMania? You can't have the light on everyone at all times, otherwise nothing will have a chance to digest. I'm sure Rock/Cena will get a lot of attention next week, or the week after, when Rock's around, but last night it was all about building up Brock/HHH and Punk/Taker - and they did a fantastic job in doing so.

I can't believe people are wanting Brawl For All to return. It was one of the biggest mistakes in WWE's history. It ruined a number of people's careers, it caused a number of people to fall out, it injured a number of people and no one came out of it looking good, because Bart Gunn went on to get destroyed by fucking Butterbean.

[Andy]

The Maddox thing was weird but funny. It's strange because he was quite 'smooth' in his talking when he did commentary on SD. He was funny on there. I wonder if it was deliberately weird. Barrett/Miz/Jericho looked like they had good chemistry on the mic and in the ring though.

Rhodes Scholars are doing so well at the moment considering how poorly they've been booked. I thought Cody had gone a bit stale but he's been really entertaining in the last few weeks. Let them get the belts at Mania and then feud with Brodus/Tensai. If they actually pen them have matches and not just dance it could be an entertaining feud. Chuck in the Outlaws for a few months, start using Epico/Primo, The Usos and the PTPs again and we could have an interesting tag division on the go.

[Andy]

It makes me laugh when Michael Cole suddenly goes off on one. I didn't think it was really justified last night but it was still funny.

That segment last year when Slater, Piper, Lauper and whoever else was in the ring...Cole just went off on one and started listing all of the colleagues he felt the need to apologise to...I was in stitches at that.

[Jay]

It was funny when he did it on NXT, especially when he had Punk alongside him, as it was a bit of a nothing show that I don't think was even being shown on TV at the time, but I don't think Cole should be pulling stunts like that on Raw. Not unless it's completely justified, where a segment is intentionally set up to fail, or the viewer at home can laugh along with Cole in ripping the segment to pieces.

His comments last night came completely out of left field, because while it was far from being amazing, it wasn't a bad segment at all. It makes me wonder if Vince was in one of his infamous moods and was feeding Cole lines, and while I know that sounds like a story Pena would run on the main page, I just find it hard to believe that Cole said all of that on his own accord.

[Hotbeef-Injection]

I think the segment with Miz, Jericho and Barrett is the perfect example of how shitty the midcard is at the moment. They ave so many talented guys but not enough for them to do. Raw is 3 goddamn hours long yet there the Intercontinental Champion and the US Champion have been losing like crazy every week, and they still don't have a match at Wrestlemania. Same with the tag champions. This segment was just painful - movie promotion with a bad promo attached. It's even more annoying when you think Jericho vs Barrett writes itself. I think Jericho in the IC title scene would be perfect because I don't think WWE are gonna give him the full title anytime soon but he could really elevate the IC title. Bring up the NXT history and you have Jericho vs Barrett booked and ready to go.

WWE needs some better midcard faces than what they have. Nobody seems to be coming up and getting good reactions. Tyson Kidd could have been that guy sadly. Between Ziggler, Rhodes, Cesaro, Sandow and Barrett you have 5 midcard heels that could easily make the step up at any moment but they're either being fed to Orton and Shemus or they're not really doing anything. They'll never 'maximise their minutes' without good matches and opponents.

[Cewsh]

Cena/Rock needs no build - they done a year build last year and it sucked so what does it matter if they don't show up this year, it adds nothing to it whatsoever. The match sells itself all thats all they need to book it.

If it isn't okay to talk about ratings and buys and business to describe why something is good, I don't really see why referencing those things in complaints makes much more sense.

Cena/Rock is getting a build, and a pretty fantastic one thus far.

[chatty]

If it isn't okay to talk about ratings and buys and business to describe why something is good, I don't really see why referencing those things in complaints makes much more sense.

Cena/Rock is getting a build, and a pretty fantastic one thus far.

I'm not, I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying it needs no build - its only had one segment of build thus far also. It really doesn't matter what it gets though, people will either like it no matter what or won't give two darns about it. Simple as really.

[Cewsh]

Raw is 3 goddamn hours long yet there the Intercontinental Champion and the US Champion have been losing like crazy every week, and they still don't have a match at Wrestlemania. Same with the tag champions.

Pretty much every year people say this, or something very much like it. So I went back and actually counted up all of the times that titles had been defended at Wrestlemania and at what shows. What I got was this:

WWE Title: 27 - (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28)

World Title: 11 – (18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28)

ECW Title: 1 – (24)

Intercontinental Title: 19 - (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 25, 28)

US Title: 3 – (20, 22, 23)

Crusierweight Title: 2 – (19, 20)

Light Heavyweight Title: 1 – (14)

Women’s Title: 11 - (1, 2, 10, 15, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23)

Diva’s Title: 0

WWE Tag Team Titles: 20 - (1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 25)

World Tag Team Titles: 4 – (19, 20, 22, 25)

European Title: 5 – (14, 15, 16, 17, 18)

Hardcore Title: 4 – (15, 16, 17, 18)


Some interesting stuff there. But the most important takeaway from that information is that this is something that WWE has consciously done for the past decade. In 10 years, the IC title has been defended 3 times, and the US title the same. The tag titles, in any form, have only been defended 3 times since Wrestlemania 20, and 2 of those were on the same show. And women have been shit out of luck since pretty much the day Trish Stratus retired.

I'm not saying it's right that things are this way or anything. But in the post Wrestlemania 20 WWE, much more focus has been paid on making it a supershow with as many huge matches as possible, and less attention has been placed on secondary championships. The staggering increase in sales for these shows has pretty much vindicated them in this. But this doesn't mean you can't still be annoyed that things aren't the way they were when you first started watching. It just means that this talking point is such old news that we really shouldn't need to slog through it every year.

[Cewsh]

I'm not, I'm not even complaining, I'm just saying it needs no build - its only had one segment of build thus far also. It really doesn't matter what it gets though, people will either like it no matter what or won't give two darns about it. Simple as really.

Hyperbollically, sure the numbers will be great with nothing but their names on the marquee. But not having a significant build would dramatically effect the way the match was received by the people watching it.

[casselmm47]

What the hell happened with the whole Jeritron 2000 (or whatever) disappearing? I missed that. There was something in the ring when the segment started, but then things.... got weird.

I left the room for a second, and when I came back the whole Jericho/Miz/Barrett segment had gone to shit with random dialogue about things being cut from the Highlight reel budget, 'Really's and stammering Maddox. I wonder if that segment was properly choreographed, or if it was tacked on at the last minute (hence, the 'worst segment ever' bit from Cole).

[Cewsh]

I assume it was a last minute addition.

[Peter Griffin]

"remove the Jeritron".."its already been removed" :rofl:

[Hotbeef-Injection]

Pretty much every year people say this, or something very much like it. So I went back and actually counted up all of the times that titles had been defended at Wrestlemania and at what shows. What I got was this:

WWE Title: 27 - (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28)

World Title: 11 – (18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28)

ECW Title: 1 – (24)

Intercontinental Title: 19 - (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 25, 28)

US Title: 3 – (20, 22, 23)

Crusierweight Title: 2 – (19, 20)

Light Heavyweight Title: 1 – (14)

Women’s Title: 11 - (1, 2, 10, 15, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23)

Diva’s Title: 0

WWE Tag Team Titles: 20 - (1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 25)

World Tag Team Titles: 4 – (19, 20, 22, 25)

European Title: 5 – (14, 15, 16, 17, 18)

Hardcore Title: 4 – (15, 16, 17, 18)


Some interesting stuff there. But the most important takeaway from that information is that this is something that WWE has consciously done for the past decade. In 10 years, the IC title has been defended 3 times, and the US title the same. The tag titles, in any form, have only been defended 3 times since Wrestlemania 20, and 2 of those were on the same show. And women have been shit out of luck since pretty much the day Trish Stratus retired.

I'm not saying it's right that things are this way or anything. But in the post Wrestlemania 20 WWE, much more focus has been paid on making it a supershow with as many huge matches as possible, and less attention has been placed on secondary championships. The staggering increase in sales for these shows has pretty much vindicated them in this. But this doesn't mean you can't still be annoyed that things aren't the way they were when you first started watching. It just means that this talking point is such old news that we really shouldn't need to slog through it every year.

I know its not exactly news that the WWE doesn't exaclty consider the secondary titles a high priority but all im saying is that there has never been more te dedicated to WWE programming yet they can't seem to get any midcard stuff done right at the moment. Let alome the IC and US titles. I agree that the priority at Mania has always been and should always be spectacle matches, but they really can't find 15 minutes a week for their secondary title holders?

[Cewsh]

They do. Barrett had a double segment dedicated to his budding title feud with Miz and/or Jericho, and Cesaro is in lengthy matches multiple times a week.

Whether the storyline is GOOD or the matches are WINS changes depending on what the top of the card need to look like or how good the writing is. But they pay them plenty of attention. It's tags and women that can't get on the show now.

[Hero!]

WWE Tag Team Titles: 20 - (1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 25)

World Tag Team Titles: 4 – (19, 20, 22, 25)


You get the names mixed up here?

[Cewsh]

Probably. I didn't bother to see which one carries the lineage, I just gave it to the Smackdown version as it continued carrying the WWE name. Since they're unified, it doesn't really matter.

[chatty]

I just can't understand why with all the TV time, talent and actual numbers they have they have to make the mid-card shit. It reeks of shit booking if they can't book the main event picture and the mid-card strongly.

Like I said before the main event sells itself and doesn't need nor will it have them going over mid-carders. Taker, HHH, Brock and Rock don't wrestle other than PPV's so all their time is spent on segments (mostly just talking shit). But those are big names so that's all they need. If they want to put Punk or Cena over them to make them look better then thats fine but it makes them look better if its a competitive match rather than a couple minute squash (not that you see those two in squashes much anyway).

Take them out of the equation and you have Shield v Show, Sheamus and Orton in what most matches are just turning into beat downs or having involvement from others in it.

Then you have the upper-mid card/mid-card guys: Ryback, Henry, Ziggler, Miz, Jericho, Cesaro, Rhodes, Sandow, Kane, Bryan, Barrett, Kofi, Truth, Cara, Mysterio.

Now for me, it doesn't take a genius to sell the big matches at Mania or write the feuds for them, there practically all re-matches so the story is there anyway so why can't a billion dollar company not have enough writers who can focus on mid-card feuds. if they are needed specifically to do a job for the guys a bove then fair enough, there are enough of them to be able to take turns doing that without having to do the same thing over and over again or job out the same guy nearly every week.

Also, theres a load of filler in all their shows whereby they could give these guys enough time to get over. For me, they should simply be able to sell both levels well without resorting to lazy booking, the only reason I can think that they don't really want to push them too much is in case they steal the show from the main event posse.

[Kneeneighbor]

The main problem is there are not any no name jobbers around anymore.

[Cewsh]

I don't really understand the idea that just because the main event stories are easy to tell, that makes them easy to book. Those are two totally different things. You have to take two major stars, have them build to a match for 6 weeks, and make sure that both of them look incredibly strong coming in. That's an unbelievably difficult thing to do.

[chatty]

The main problem is there are not any no name jobbers around anymore.

They have jobbers though: Ryder, 3MB, Santino, JTG, Khali, Hunico, Camacho, Hawkins, Tatsu. If they need someone to get destroyed use these guys.

If they need a mid-carder then it should be a tough match so everyone looks good with obviously the higher ranked guy winning.

[Cewsh]

They have jobbers though: Ryder, 3MB, Santino, JTG, Khali, Hunico, Camacho, Hawkins, Tatsu. If they need someone to get destroyed use these guys.

If they need a mid-carder then it should be a tough match so everyone looks good with obviously the higher ranked guy winning.

Beating those guys doesn't mean anything. The audience has been taught for ten years that jobber matches are worthless, so they don't respond to them like they used to. That's why it took Ryback 6 months to get over.

And the main eventer vs. midcarder matches are almost universally portrayed as competitive from what I've seen.

[Peter Griffin]

I read a headline on the bottom of one of the main page articles that said 'find out why Dolph Ziggler is getting buried' , it was before he won on raw, and sure he was losing a lot, but he was hardly being fucking buried, he was having competitive, match of the night shows week in week out, its not like he was losing in two minutes and getting no offence in.

[Cewsh]

People don't really have any idea what "buried" means, seemingly. They throw it out every time someone they like isn't actively being pushed hard.

This is like the whole "Triple H is burying Chris Jericho" thing all over again.

[chatty]

I don't really understand the idea that just because the main event stories are easy to tell, that makes them easy to book. Those are two totally different things. You have to take two major stars, have them build to a match for 6 weeks, and make sure that both of them look incredibly strong coming in. That's an unbelievably difficult thing to do.

Is it though:
Taker, Lesnar, HHH, Rock are all strong going in, they've been booked at the top for years - all they have to do is talk up there game. Cena is the face of the company, he's going in strong and Punk has been on a record title run so he is going in strong.

Like I said, its fine if they need to beat the mid-carders but if they squashed them then it does nothing for no one. Have good competitive matches and then rotate them so that the top guys look like they are beating everyone else on the roster without specific people losing week in, week out, book them in multi-man tags so the mid-card guys get to hang with the main event guys, book interference so that guys aren't getting beat but at the same time the feuds are getting stronger.

But then you have the over-reliance of bringing part-timers in so they can't make it every week or wrestle so they are cut down. I can see a problem there but at some point they are going to have to bring these guys up otherwise they are cutting their nose of in the long run.

I already belive this years Mania will draw less than last year by a fair bit based on people not bothering to see the Rock again as they watched it last year and probably don't care to see him beat of Cena. Anyone Lesnar brings in form the UFC have already seen the match and were probably put off by how crap he's been booked since his return and again prob couldn't care less about HHH getting his win back.

It'll still do real well of course but I think it won't match last years.

[chatty]

Beating those guys doesn't mean anything. The audience has been taught for ten years that jobber matches are worthless, so they don't respond to them like they used to. That's why it took Ryback 6 months to get over.

And the main eventer vs. midcarder matches are almost universally portrayed as competitive from what I've seen.

As I said before though, rotate them, we've had Ryback over Cesaro 8 times, Cena over Ziggler a fair amount of times etc, it just doesn't seem fresh. If they rotated them more and gave guys more wins in between then it might make them all look better and as in the other post multi-man and interference help loads.

[Cewsh]

Is it though:
Taker, Lesnar, HHH, Rock are all strong going in, they've been booked at the top for years - all they have to do is talk up there game. Cena is the face of the company, he's going in strong and Punk has been on a record title run so he is going in strong.

I don't think you know what I mean by "Go in strong." Of course CM Punk and John Cena are top guys and big stars, but CM Punk hasn't won a PPV match since 2012 and John Cena since January. The Rock is only sporadically on the shows and the Undertaker can't wrestle before April. And to build to a match, you have to build MOMENTUM for the guys involved. It's no good to just say "Oh, here's John Cena. He's John Cena, so be excited, okay?" That gets you matches where the fans sit on their hands, and buyrates that only meet expectations. The building up of top guys from PPV to PPV is the single most complicated juggling act I can think of in any industry. Who wins? Who loses? Who looks strong in the first segment, the last segment, the middle segment? Do you have the heel look strong in the last segment and risk fewer people on the show seeing it as a few hundred thousand people tune out during the course of the show? Do you have him look strong in the first segment and risk the tone of the show being dampened from the start, which can interfere in the effectiveness of the other segments?

Not to mention needing to keep things hot to keep the buzz going among fans and social media, which is a serious source of advertising in and of itself. If you give them a holding pattern, they'll give you disinterest. These things kill products and can't be ignored.

There is so, so, so, so much that goes into this. And you're saying, "Welp, here's Rock and Cena, they're having a match in 4 weeks, see you then," is an invitation to complete disaster and ridicule.


Like I said, its fine if they need to beat the mid-carders but if they squashed them then it does nothing for no one. Have good competitive matches and then rotate them so that the top guys look like they are beating everyone else on the roster without specific people losing week in, week out, book them in multi-man tags so the mid-card guys get to hang with the main event guys, book interference so that guys aren't getting beat but at the same time the feuds are getting stronger.

Sounds great, until you realize that there's nothing specific about that. The tv shows are there to sell the PPVs and the tv matches are there to be ratings tentpoles and maneuver the wrestlers involved into place for angles. If a midcarder needs to lose then they will fucking lose.


But then you have the over-reliance of bringing part-timers in so they can't make it every week or wrestle so they are cut down. I can see a problem there but at some point they are going to have to bring these guys up otherwise they are cutting their nose of in the long run.

I don't think WWE has a "reliance" on part timers at all. They just have 2 guys, (in Rock and Brock,) who are far, far more famous than the rest of their roster, and 2, (Triple H and Undertaker,) who have been around for so long and are so over that they add tons to whatever they do. And this is the one show that those skills are best suited to, so all the part timers come out and put on gala spectacle matches. Then, come May, thing are back to normal. This isn't some kind of deficiency, it's the system operating correctly. 10 years from now, it'll be Cena and Punk doing it, and drawing the houses to get the guys on the undercard exposure.


I already belive this years Mania will draw less than last year by a fair bit based on people not bothering to see the Rock again as they watched it last year and probably don't care to see him beat of Cena. Anyone Lesnar brings in form the UFC have already seen the match and were probably put off by how crap he's been booked since his return and again prob couldn't care less about HHH getting his win back.

Yeah, I haven't been trying to discredit you in this thus far, but this paragraph is pretty shitty. Buys have been up consistently for all of Lesnar's matches thus far, and you have nothing to actually back up the idea that people aren't interested in Rock/Cena. Show your work.

[chatty]

I don't think you know what I mean by "Go in strong." Of course CM Punk and John Cena are top guys and big stars, but CM Punk hasn't won a PPV match since 2012 and John Cena since January. The Rock is only sporadically on the shows and the Undertaker can't wrestle before April. And to build to a match, you have to build MOMENTUM for the guys involved. It's no good to just say "Oh, here's John Cena. He's John Cena, so be excited, okay?" That gets you matches where the fans sit on their hands, and buyrates that only meet expectations. The building up of top guys from PPV to PPV is the single most complicated juggling act I can think of in any industry. Who wins? Who loses? Who looks strong in the first segment, the last segment, the middle segment? Do you have the heel look strong in the last segment and risk fewer people on the show seeing it as a few hundred thousand people tune out during the course of the show? Do you have him look strong in the first segment and risk the tone of the show being dampened from the start, which can interfere in the effectiveness of the other segments?

Not to mention needing to keep things hot to keep the buzz going among fans and social media, which is a serious source of advertising in and of itself. If you give them a holding pattern, they'll give you disinterest. These things kill products and can't be ignored.

There is so, so, so, so much that goes into this. And you're saying, "Welp, here's Rock and Cena, they're having a match in 4 weeks, see you then," is an invitation to complete disaster and ridicule.

I'm not saying they should just advertise Rock/Cena in four weeks and leave it at that. I'm saying that match is already sold, they already have the back story and one doesn't wrestle. They hardly have any involvement in the mid-card at all. They will mainly just do segments which works for them, great.Feeding them any of the lower guys constantly doesn;t do anything for them, the people watching every week anyway will watch every week, if people are just tuning in for the Rock then they wont give a shit who he is using to look stronger and the rest won't even watch the build up.

Cena has done the same schtick for eight years, I wouldn't expect it to change, I have no problem with him going over anyone on the card but to be fair he only wrestles once a fortnight, sometimes three weeks anyway, it hardly has any bearing on the mid-card.

HHH/Lesnar has no bearing on the mid-card and for the most part I'm guessing Punk/taker won't either, they keep them mixed with each other. They used Kane well this week and Miz with lesnar before bit how often does those matches/segments happen - not very often. Punk does more than the rest to make anyone else look good to be fair


Sounds great, until you realize that there's nothing specific about that. The tv shows are there to sell the PPVs and the tv matches are there to be ratings tentpoles and maneuver the wrestlers involved into place for angles. If a midcarder needs to lose then they will fucking lose.

How not, they have about ten hours of TV a week, three and five from their flagship shows, a roster of what 50/60 people (NXT not included) and hundreds of millions at their disposal and you're telling me they can't hire enough good writers to be able to give the mid-card an hour of time to feud between themselves and get exposure without constantly feeding them to those above them because I honestly don't think that it would be that hard to balance out.


I don't think WWE has a "reliance" on part timers at all. They just have 2 guys, (in Rock and Brock,) who are far, far more famous than the rest of their roster, and 2, (Triple H and Undertaker,) who have been around for so long and are so over that they add tons to whatever they do. And this is the one show that those skills are best suited to, so all the part timers come out and put on gala spectacle matches. Then, come May, thing are back to normal. This isn't some kind of deficiency, it's the system operating correctly. 10 years from now, it'll be Cena and Punk doing it, and drawing the houses to get the guys on the undercard exposure.



Yeah, I haven't been trying to discredit you in this thus far, but this paragraph is pretty shitty. Buys have been up consistently for all of Lesnar's matches thus far, and you have nothing to actually back up the idea that people aren't interested in Rock/Cena. Show your work.

Like I say, this is just an opinion, I said it would still do well but I think it will drop from last year. Last year I remember a load of randoms from all over the place getting in on it because The Rock was back for his first (big meaningful) match. This year I've hardly seen that much buzz at all, in fact more people I have seen have been down on it because its the exact same match as last year. Sure he will draw still, I just don't think it has captured the imagination as much as last year did.

As for Lesnar, well it's much the same, he's in a match that people have already seen and how many people were turned of by last summers poor feud or him losing to Cena on his first match back. He's not new/returning anymore and they are putting on a match that is already fresh in peoples memory, and mostly not for good things.

Then you have three other part timers brought in at the same time each year to sell the show. If there is no over reliance then why do they need to bring them in. It's a viscous circle whereby they play less risks by using the past names to draw the biggest show but in the mean time they are under selling the guys who are there all year round and whilst its all nice giving them a couple of months run when people ren't watching as much, it does nothing to get them over. You push one of these guys at Mania when all eyes are on them and that's what makes them a star.

[The Rosk]

Watching the Maddox part.... He is fucking incredible.

[Matthew]

yea he is really great.

[The Rosk]

I am being seriously. I think he is hilarious. Sense of humour is cracking.

[Peter Griffin]

I havent really been paying attention to the dude, but saw the segment on Raw, either hes intentionally shit at talking or just shit, or i just dont get the character.

[mth]

I'm pretty eager to see the segment on RAW as I love the guy and have found him incredibly entertaining thus far. Curious to see if he really bombs it or if it's a more subjective humor thing. Will be watching RAW tonight so I'll chime in again later (I'm mostly saying this so no one takes the trouble of finding the clip for me not because I think you give a hoot about my plans for the evening and are awaiting my comments with baited breath).

[Matthew]

I am being seriously. I think he is hilarious. Sense of humour is cracking.im serious too, asshole

[Jay]

Maddox is brilliant. He's intentionally a little unorthodox on the mic; he's been like that since day one and it's one of the things I like about him. I think it really helps him to stand out, as well. You only have to listen to his commentary on SmackDown! from last week to see that he's actually a good talker; he's incredibly witty and bloody hilarious. People who think he actually screwed up last night, or that any of that wasn't intentional, just don't understand him.

[Skillshot]

I quite enjoyed Maddox being totally unsure of himself - was hilarious

[Peter Griffin]

Maddox is brilliant. He's intentionally a little unorthodox on the mic; he's been like that since day one and it's one of the things I like about him. I think it really helps him to stand out, as well. You only have to listen to his commentary on SmackDown! from last week to see that he's actually a good talker; he's incredibly witty and bloody hilarious. People who think he actually screwed up last night, or that any of that wasn't intentional, just don't understand him.

Fair play, ill be paying more attention to his segments from now on then.

[Ochoa]

I enjoyed King's commentary during the Fandango segment. "Is that the Harlem Shake?" and "Damn it, Tensai!" had me laughing.

[The Rogerer]

I just watched that, what the hell was that? Michael Cole would just turn over every line because they need to go to an advert break, oh no, we've only sat through an entire promo that is two adverts.

Chris Jericho can't sell.

[Jay]

Fair play, ill be paying more attention to his segments from now on then.Try and hunt down some of his commentary from last week's SmackDown! if you can, he was brilliant and you'll see exactly what I mean :yes:

[mth]

Ok, I don't get why that Highlight Reel was being put over as so terrible on commentary. It wasn't amazing but it seemed fine and all three guys were ok on the mic and it served it's purpose. Weird. Maybe it was 'cuz the crowd was dead for it or Vince was feeding them lines because he thought it sucked. :dunno: Oh, and as for Maddox, he was basically being Maddox. He's got his own style but I'll admit he was dragging a bit.

The Taker/Kane/Bearer/Punk stuff was all terrific. Excellent way of paying tribute to Paul whilst forwarding an angle. :yes: I didn't mind in the slightest that Rock/Cena was just a video package, it gave some time to focus on other stuff and Punk/Taker getting center stage was deserved.

I'd like to think part of the reason the Bellas are back is so they can bring back Kharma and finish their business. Probably shouldn't hold my breath, though.

DB/Zigs was quite good. Cesaro/ADR was also really enjoyable (and as a Cesaro fan, I don't even care he lost because he held his own against the World Champ and this match and the ones with Orton are helping the crowd care more by putting him against guys they are into),

There was other stuff and other stuff was all pretty decent. Well, FANNNNNDANNNNNGOOOOOO was better than decent.

[chatty]

I think they are just indecisive with what to do after the top four matches. I mean the last six weeks they have tried or hinted at programs with the following only to change and turn:

Henry v Orton
Sheamus v Barrett
Jericho v Ziggler
Henry v Ryback
Sheamus v Ryback - not so much a match but dissent between them

They've had Rhode Scholars split up only to wrestle together the next week, have a segment together just about every week since saying they are broke up and then reformed.

They were pushing the brake up of Kane/Bryan and then pretty much stopped halfway and decided to keep them together and they haven't even shared a segment on the two shows this week.

[Beer-Belly]

Fandango is so dumb that I like it. Obviously the dude is going to have to be repackaged at some point, but right now it's moderately amusing.

Brad Maddox has the easiest job around.

[VHS]

Brad Maddox doesn't belong on television, plain and simple. And King/Cole didn't help matters either.

[Beer-Belly]

Brad Maddox doesn't belong on television, plain and simple. And King/Cole didn't help matters either.

I'm sure Vince told them to shit on him after a certain point.

[Jacknife]

Brad Maddox is the best thing in the WWE.

[VHS]

He makes things so awkward, but not in the way an awkward character makes watchable and compelling television. He has zero stage presence and he comes off as some flunky auditioning for a spot on the show, not somebody that can hold his own when all eyes are on him.

[Beer-Belly]

Brad Maddox is the best thing in the WWE.

No.

[Jacknife]

No.

Sorry, you're right. While I do thoroughly enjoy Brad Maddox, he is not the best thing in the WWE and there are acts far more superior to him, like CM Punk, the Undertaker, and the Shield.

[Beer-Belly]

Daniel Bryan's beard has more natural charisma than Brad Maddox. To be fair, it's a thoroughly bitchin' beard.

I read that Maddox is one of Triple H's projects, so maybe he'll get better over time. Everything he does right now seems really forced, though.

[chatty]

I don't mind Maddox, he's not really integral in/at anything for the moment though, he could easily disappear and it would make no difference whatsoever. Give the lad time though, he's at least trying to forge some sort of character that makes him standout when many are just happy with their place on the card.

[VHS]

Daniel Bryan's beard has more natural charisma than Brad Maddox. To be fair, it's a thoroughly bitchin' beard.

I read that Maddox is one of Triple H's projects, so maybe he'll get better over time. Everything he does right now seems really forced, though.

Forced and unconvincing.

[Chris Scott]

Wow Brad Maddox on the Highlight Reel was absolutely terrible, what the hell was he doing he was shit.

[Chris Scott]

Damien Sandow is fucking incredible. He has been for a long, long time now, but I hope he continues to be allowed to show his brilliant mic work. I'm glad he and Rhodes are back together - it's better than them being lost in the midcard shuffle like so many are at the moment.

:yes:

I couldn't stand Sandow at first but since he and Rhodes teamed up I took to him they just clicked right away. Was bit gutted they broke them up but made up they paired them back up. Rhodes is just great always huge fan of his.

[JPW]

finally got a chance to see Raw today.

really loved how they centered around the Paul Bearer and as disrespectful as Punk was on RAW it actually helped the feud a lot and really kicked it into gear. It's kind of good but also unfortunate Paul's death is what has helped made this feud work. It came at the most opportune moment. I bet you about a month writers were scratching their heads how to make Punk and Taker work with such little time.

But in one night they built a feud.

I also thought it was good to have the brothers do their pose. Kind of sad the last time we saw Paul was being wheeled back into a freezer by Kane. But a while before that Paul Bearer also betrayed the Undertaker in HIAC. So how does it make sense?
But the "brothers/sons" paying tribute kind of gives that feeling all is forgiven and you will live on


I also had a feeling the night would be very predictable. What was funny is it never once stopped me from enjoying it.

And Undetaker you were awesome. His Entrance is one of the most satisfying entrances ever. There's something that just pulls you in. I find it very hard to turn away. I'm just in awe everytime. It's so captivating. Even when he's just there for the moment.

I would of loved a special effect moment tonight too.

One more thing before i leave these guys alone. Did CM Punk do his elbow tonight? Usually he point to the heavens for Savage, and he gets cheers and respect for it, but i'm wondering because of what he did would they of acknowledged it or would they of booed it.

Other then that never else really fitted. I'm thinking the highlight reel was made basically to build a match for Wrestlemania.
Wade Barrett(c) vs Jericho vs Miz
I wouldn't mind seeing a match like this and they can even use this to start a Jericho heel turn. Jericho vs The Miz. That's feud i would love to see.
I kind of wanted to see a Jericho vs Ziggler pay off match though.

I guess now they're just looking at ways to get as many people on the card, even if it doesn't make sense.

Anyway the rest of the show i never really paid attention too.