Baseball 2013

[LOCONUT]

In this thread we discuss baseball.

My playoff predictions for 2013:

NL West - Giants
NL East - Nationals
NL Central - Cardinals
Wildcard - Dodgers
Wildcard - Braves

AL West: Angels
AL Central - Tigers
AL East - Rays
Wildcard - Orioles
Wildcard - Rangers

AL Champions: Detroit
NL Champions: Nationals

World Series Champions - Tigers

[Miotch]

No. This thread cannot be made until January 1 and I will not let you ruin my streak of starting it.

[virms]

Bromance over.

[TimeSplitter]

Also, no pre-season favorite for the Blue Jays in the playoffs? IRRELEVANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[connorboy]

The Blue Jays will do OK because they've improved their pitching immensely. I reckon it's between them and the Angels.

My Cubbies should do better than last year with a near complete pitching overhaul. Still wont get near the playoffs but it won't be another 100 loss season.

The Marlins look fucked though. Won't be surprised to see them go 50-112 or something silly.

How does everyone see more inter league games affecting the picture, if it does at all?

[Brian M.]

I can't see the Orioles or Rangers making the playoffs again this year. The Yankees/Rays/Blue Jays trio in the east just looks too good, and the Red Sox could contend if they grab another quality starter at some point along the way. I feel like the Orioles had a lot of luck last year and are due for a fall back to earth.

[LOCONUT]

No. This thread cannot be made until January 1 and I will not let you ruin my streak of starting it.

I made the thread 2 years ago. Your "streak" is like your supposed heterosexuality - a giant lie.

[LOCONUT]

Also, Brian the Yankees and Red Sox will both be shit this year. Yankees pitching is average at best and their offense takes a fairly major hit with Swisher, Ibanez and no Arod until the break. The bullpen should be solid but I dont think they have the rotation or offense to be competitive. The Red Sox are just awful. Their lineup is a giant mess. Not sure how they are a starter away from a playoff spot. And acquiring another closer from a subpar NL team isnt going to be the answer to their bullpen woes either. Wouldnt be surprised to see them finish last in the East.

[Brian M.]

I don't know, as long as the Napoli signing goes through, I don't have a huge problem with the offense. It's nothing amazing, but Ellsbury/Pedroia/Ortiz/Napoli/Middlebrooks isn't a horrible top five of the order. It gets a little dicey at the back end, I'll grant you that. The rotation is a bit fucked. When I said another starter, I meant a top end guy. Like, trading Ellsbury for Cliff Lee or something insane like that which probably won't happen. I would not be surprised to see them finish last in the East, but I also wouldn't be shocked if they finished say third, which would likely throw them into wild card contention.

As far as the Yankees go, I think they are going to fall apart every year and it never fucking happens so I've stopped hoping at this point. All of your points are logical though.

[Ochoa]

We will have tough competition with Cincy fhis year: Astros are gone. which sucks: So 2 wildcard teams are
permanent now, eh?

[Fro]

We will have tough competition with Cincy fhis year: Astros are gone. which sucks: So 2 wildcard teams are
permanent now, eh?

Yeah that is until they make the next modification.

So now interleague play will be constant. Should be an interesting shake up. I'm for it- the uneven divisions always pissed me off.

[Mills]

Astros to AL west means no more basement dwelling, so im ok so far

[Atty]

:rofl:

I really think the Astros will be dire for quite some time in the AL West. Also seems odd to have them in the West, as they're about as far to the west as KC is, but that's a totally different matter. Is Clemens coming back to sell tickets/reset his HOF clock?

[MTR]

Who is ready for the shitstorm in a few minutes when they announce the Hall of Fame class of 2013?

[Miotch]

I hate the Baseball Writers of America.

[MTR]

They are not all bad. Just most of them.

[MTR]

You have to be fucking kidding me.

[Kneeneighbor]

Congrats to no one on making it to the HOF

[Kdestiny]

Laaaaaame

[MTR]

The voting system needs to be overhauled. Been saying that for years.

[MTR]

Also anyone that turned in a blank ballot should have their vote taken away. Get tired of hearing voters doing that.

[Fro]

While I would have liked to see Bonds and Clemens get in on their first ballot, I don't think there's anything wrong with every so often having a year where no one gets in. It actually makes a lot of sense- if no one's deserving don't force someone in just to have the ceremony.

[MTR]

I think that there are deserving candidates though on this ballot. If there was a year where there were really not any good enough people to put in then fair enough but I don't think this is one of those years.

[Fro]

I think that there are deserving candidates though on this ballot. If there was a year where there were really not any good enough people to put in then fair enough but I don't think this is one of those years.

I agree, but I don't think the voting system needs an overhaul because of this year's results. This should be the outcome every once in a while. I just think they need better voters.

[MTR]

I thought the system needed to be changed before this outcome. Not because of this outcome. Part of an overhaul would be to get better voters. This is just not a good system and plenty of crap voters out there.

[Kneeneighbor]

I have no problem with the votes this year. Guys like Clemens and Bonds are still eligible and it gives us another year to sort out where the steroid era is going to lead us. I also dont think Biggio or Bagwell are first ballot guys.

[MTR]

Is there really a difference between a first ballot guy or at 12 ballot guy if they are both in the Hall at the end of the day? Never understood why people have to make that distinction.

[Fro]

I thought the system needed to be changed before this outcome. Not because of this outcome. Part of an overhaul would be to get better voters. This is just not a good system and plenty of crap voters out there.

Aside from the bad voters, what are the problems with the system? This is not me disagreeing, I just don't know much about how it works and its pitfalls.

[Kneeneighbor]

The distinction is made because it has been made for many many years. Normally I am against continuing to do something just because that is the way it was done before.... however when it comes to something like this I do think you want to honor those traditions. To me I do not make a distinction ballots 2-20 though.

[MTR]

Aside from the bad voters, what are the problems with the system? This is not me disagreeing, I just don't know much about how it works and its pitfalls.

Basically you have a shit ton of "writers" that are voting. Just too many people voting and honestly as you know a crap load of terrible voters as we have seen over the years. So the whole qualification of voters. Also voters are limited to only voting for 10 people. I have been reading where a lot of voters have detailed where that is a problem as well and would like more votes some years.

I would like to seem them adopt something like the NFL Hall of Fame process.

[MTR]

The distinction is made because it has been made for many many years. Normally I am against continuing to do something just because that is the way it was done before.... however when it comes to something like this I do think you want to honor those traditions. To me I do not make a distinction ballots 2-20 though.

Just curious people's views since they don't put down how many ballots it took a guy to get in when they put their plaque up.

[Kneeneighbor]

No problem. I think its an interesting discussion when people actually do that and discuss rather than it turning into a slap fight which happens all too often...

I do not like the football process because sometimes I feel like there are not 6 guys worthy to go in but they have a rule that there must be that many each year.

[MTR]

Well there are pros and cons to the NFL's process as well. They have to put 4 people in no matter what. Well yeah there are probably years that 4 people are not really worthy. Still think it works out better though.

[Kneeneighbor]

I think they would have a hard time voting in 4 guys this year pending on their stance on the PED guys.

[LOCONUT]

Glad none of them got in. I hope they never do. I also hope they dont look the other way on guys like A-Rod, Ortiz and Pettitte simply because they took a more intelligent approach to how they handled their cheating. At the end of the day, those guys failed tests too.

[Miotch]

Craig Biggio and Jack Morris have nothing to do with the steroid conversation, and it's fucking disgusting that the baseball writers don't seem to give a shit. If no one got in this year and the highest vote was 69% (tee hee) then why would Biggio ever deserve to go in? Making him wait some how makes him more qualified? It's a stupid fucking system that allows the BWA to sit atop their holier than thou perch, and this has nothing to do with the steroids issue.

As far as that goes, it's my personal opinion that the HoF should be inclusive of everyone that tells the story of baseball. Without Mac and Sosa we might not even have the sport today. They brought the fan base back. Additionally, how are you even going to differentiate between the guys that did steroids and the guys that didn't? Can anyone in here look at me in the face and tell me they honestly believe Mike Piazza didn't take them? There's no positive test or testimony linking him to them though. So should he get in? Whether baseball likes it or not, Barry Bonds is the home run king. That guy really shouldn't be in the hall of fame? I say put them all in, if they're deserving.

[Defrost]

Jack Morris shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame because he wasn't good enough to be in the Hall of Fame. Biggio is the issue I have.

[MTR]

I hate that guys cheated and even though we feel like they cheated we don't know if/when they cheated and/or for how long. It would be one thing if someone comes back and said I cheated the whole time. So far out of the guys that have admitted it except for Canseco they pretty much said they only did it in chunks of time. So do you try to figure out what they did during that time and take it away from them? Bonds is probably one of the best players to play the game. I believe he cheated but even so he was bound for the Hall of Fame in my view anyway. Great player. Like Miotch said whether we like it or not he is the home run king. Like it or not Big Mac and Sosa helped bring fans back to the game. Unless we have positive tests are confessions how can you differentiate between all of these guys. Not like we don't have cheaters in the Hall anyway.

Just lame that Biggio and Morris didn't get in. I honestly feel like Murphy, Raines and Lee should be in as well but I know that people have different opinions on those guys.

[Ochoa]

Biggio and Piazza should have gotten in, imo. Morris isn't getting in now with Maddux, Glavine and Thomas on next year's ballot. I wish Bagwell got more love too.

[Miotch]

Jack Morris shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame because he wasn't good enough to be in the Hall of Fame. Biggio is the issue I have.

A 5 time All Star with 2 World Series rings, an 18 year long career, nearly 2,5000 strikeouts, and a career ERA at 3.9 which is artificially inflated due to his last 2 abortion-esque seasons is hall worth in my opinion.

[Brian M.]

I completely agree with Mitch on this. I have no desire to go to a Hall Of Fame where the best players from the era in which I grew up are not represented. Yes, some of them cheated. Cheating has been a part of baseball for many, many years. There were no written rules against using steroids back then. No tests. No reason for players not to do it. So most of them did. But the cream of the crop still stood out. Steroids don't automatically make you the best player in baseball. Barry Bonds already was a Hall Of Famer, and yes steroids helped him hit 73 homers, but he was probably going to hit 55-60 that year regardless. Nobody knows the full effect of performance enhancing drugs, but there were some utter shitheads who couldn't get out of the minors who were taking them too. So it wasn't automatic "You are now a god at baseball" juice.

So now what we have is a Hall Of Fame where the two guys who saved the game, the home run king, and the all time hits leader aren't represented. I'm all set, thanks.

Also I agree with Defrost that Morris doesn't deserve to be in. Which, after Mitch's last post, means I don't COMPLETELY agree with him about this year's vote.

[Miotch]

Also I love the high and mighty stance people take about cheaters in baseball, a sport where cheating is actually acceptable and allowed.

[Mills]

So many players in the "glory" days took greenies and other performance enhancers that this argument is dumb. So they took substances that weren't illegal at the time. Big deal, so many people were cheaters, or amoral, or just bad people that its ridiculous to play a moral high card.

Ty Cobb- Murderer
Babe Ruth- womanizer
Hank Aaron- took greenies

[Kneeneighbor]

Why is it morally wrong to be a womanizer?

[TimeSplitter]

When you're already married it is...

I understand why nobody was voted in, but I'd like for Biggio to get in at some point.

[LOCONUT]

Tough to compare greenies with Steroids.

Also, I dont think being immoral is an issue. I do think taking a player who was nothing special and allowing him to represent baseball in the Hall of Fame because he roided his face off would be a gross injustice.

At the end of the day, the Hall of Fame will be a joke until they let Pete Rose in.

[Brian M.]

The issue is, none of the men being considered would have been "nothing special" without roids. Clemens and Bonds were both Hall Of Famers before the roid speculation started. Could they have been doing them their whole careers? Sure I suppose. But I feel like most people think roids became prominent around '96 or '97, and both of those men had already won MVP awards at that point.

I feel like McGwire and Sosa should be in just because they brought baseball back to the forefront of American sports. Even though now we know they were on performance enhancers (let's face it, we all knew it then. Nobody wanted to admit it), it was still a special time that should be remembered for saving the sport.

[Kneeneighbor]

I completely agree with Mitch on this. I have no desire to go to a Hall Of Fame where the best players from the era in which I grew up are not represented. Yes, some of them cheated. Cheating has been a part of baseball for many, many years. There were no written rules against using steroids back then. No tests. No reason for players not to do it. So most of them did. But the cream of the crop still stood out. Steroids don't automatically make you the best player in baseball. Barry Bonds already was a Hall Of Famer, and yes steroids helped him hit 73 homers, but he was probably going to hit 55-60 that year regardless. Nobody knows the full effect of performance enhancing drugs, but there were some utter shitheads who couldn't get out of the minors who were taking them too. So it wasn't automatic "You are now a god at baseball" juice.

So now what we have is a Hall Of Fame where the two guys who saved the game, the home run king, and the all time hits leader aren't represented. I'm all set, thanks.

Also I agree with Defrost that Morris doesn't deserve to be in. Which, after Mitch's last post, means I don't COMPLETELY agree with him about this year's vote.

Bonds had never even hit 50, what makes you think he was gonna hit 60 that year?

[Atty]

I hate the Baseball Writers of America.

I bet they all brag about driving their fucking Prius's and how awful everyone else is for wrecking the environment.

[MTR]

I know someone that would be a great voter but because he works for MLB.com he is not allowed to be a member.

[Brian M.]

Bonds had never even hit 50, what makes you think he was gonna hit 60 that year?

I'm just not convinced that steroids make a 25 home run difference. Some guys just have years where they hit a fuck ton more home runs than usual.

[Atty]

:rofl:

Kevin Towers is a fucking retard.

[Reveille]

Anyone else surprised that Dice K is back with Francona???

Yes, it is just a minor league contract but Francona was there front and center for every one of his failures...

If I was Francona I woulda said "No risk in a minor league contract but its still not worth my headache"...

[Torn]

It's a front office decision and doesn't have anything to do with the manager.

[Reveille]

Come on, you really don't think they went to Terry for his opinion???

[Fro]

The fact that Terry has worked with him before was probably one of the reasons they thought it would be a good fit.

[Reveille]

If I was Terry I woulda said I quit (kidding) the second they signed dice k if terry didn't give a good recommendation...

[thetony]

Clevelands made some decent moves. Picking up a guy like Michael Bourn will help any team.

[Torn]

Come on, you really don't think they went to Terry for his opinion???

In terms of assessing his talent? Why would they, if they need Francona to evaluate the pitching talent of a player then they shouldn't be in that job. In terms of his personality and work ethic then sure, at which point I don't see how it would be surprising since it's not going to be like he now hates him on a personal level because he sucked at pitching.

[Miotch]

It's a minor league contract. Settle down.

[Brian M.]

Dice K was pretty good during the 3 and a half starts in which he was healthy in Boston.

[Miotch]

IF I WERE FRANCONA I WOULD HAVE JUST FUCKING QUIT AND WALKED AWAY FROM MY MANAGERIAL JOB WHERE I HAVENT EVEN MANAGED ONE GAME YET BECAUSE FUCK DICE K.

:blah:

[Reveille]

:D...

[Brian M.]

I could kind of see Francona getting upset if Dice K was a guy like Manny who wreaked complete havoc in the clubhouse and was a general nuisance. But by all accounts Dice K was a very respectful guy who just kept to himself.

If Terry Francona didn't like guys specifically because they suck at baseball, he probably would have signed with someone else besides the fucking Cleveland Indians.

[connorboy]

For sale. One closer, bought since new but has long lost ability to save games. Free to good home. Please contact the Chicago Cubs, Wrigley Field

Seriously fucking Marmol. I despair

[Kdestiny]

he is my favorite Cub

[Torn]

This is absolutely brutal

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8118/8632771029_037cfd4de4_o.gif

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/290818969/_21I6301_normal.JPG Joe Maddon ✔ @RaysJoeMaddon (https://twitter.com/RaysJoeMaddon)
That can't happen in a major league game.

[Kneeneighbor]

DId they show a pitch trax of it?

[Torn]

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1545239/fastmap.php-pitchSel_all_game_gid_2013_04_08_tbamlb_texmlb_1_s p_type_2_s_type_7.gif

Lower left red square is that pitch.

The ump:
"I saw the pitch and of course don't have the chance to do it again," Foster told a pool reporter after the game. "But had I had a chance to do it again, I wouldn't call that pitch a strike."

Nathan:
"Did I draw it up like this for my 300th (save)? No. But we'll take it," Nathan said. "I knew I was throwing it there. The fact is I thought it was ball four. I thought he might offer at it. When he didn't, my mindset went more to concentrate on what we've got to do with (Evan) Longoria now. I think I might have been the last guy on the field to realize the game was over."

[Christopherson]

So yeah obviously I'm happy the Rays lost but Maddon absolutely nails it there is no way that call can be made in a major league game, never mind being a game ending call.


Watching Jose Iglesias on the field is a treat, he's so smooth and I am sure going to miss him I just hope he finds some bat in AAA at some point. Although it's nice to see his BABIP fuelled (.529) is getting lots of credit in the Boston media, regardless if he just can just improve his bat a bit he would still be a valuable piece because of that glove.

Nice start for Boston to the season, the vibe this year is so so so different than last year. If they can stay healthy I do think they can compete this year and that's all you can really hope for.

Also love J-Upton making a mockery of the Diamondbacks.

[Fro]

Yeah, the Red Sox are playing great so far with Ortiz due to come back tomorrow. Victorino and Napoli are looking like good additions. The back of the rotation is their weak spot.

This pic is pretty cool:

http://i.imgur.com/sdq6s9X.jpg

[Kneeneighbor]

This pic is PHOTOSHOPPED:


FIXED

[Fro]

FIXED

:(

[LOCONUT]

No, it really isnt photoshopped. Not sure why they didnt include the announcer in that pic. He got nailed.

[VanillaJello]

This is why baseball is hard.

Darvish throws all his pitches from the same arm slot.

http://i.minus.com/i3SXAH4AAxtWS.gif

[Kdestiny]

I find it hysterical that it's Pujols he is pitching to

[Kneeneighbor]

If the playoffs started today, and they dont, the Pirates would be in!

[Atty]

This is why baseball is hard.

Darvish throws all his pitches from the same arm slot.

http://i.minus.com/i3SXAH4AAxtWS.gif

This gif is amazing.

[Fro]

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/623/e7tenso.jpg

loob

[Kneeneighbor]

There have been a ton of those this year... basically every time Getz is on base against a new team.

[Kneeneighbor]

Okay I am looking at the Yankees lineup for game one of this double header and honesty... WHO THE FUCK ARE THESE GUYS?

[Kneeneighbor]

A name to keep an eye on.

Logan Shore

Pitcher on the high school baseball team I coach. Expected to go in the 1st or 2nd round of the upcomming draft.

[Kneeneighbor]

First round playoff game today. CG 1hit shut out. A bunt single in the 4th.

[TimeSplitter]

I've read a bit about him. What's the likelyhood he'd still go to Florida? Second round seems too good to pass up.

[Kneeneighbor]

The rumor is if he gets a million dollars he will sign.

[Kneeneighbor]

He came in today in the top of 7 and got the last two outs with guys on 1st and 2nd in a tie game. A grounder to first that advanced the runners and then a strike out. We scored in the bottom half to win 4-3. His era is around .20 now

[LOCONUT]

Sounds like justice is coming....

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/06/mlb-prepared-to-suspend-players-in-biogenesis-scandal.html

[Miotch]

Shocked that Cano or Granderson aren't on the list.

[TimeSplitter]

They mentioned on MLB trade rumors that Cano might be linked, but not likely.

[Christopherson]

Hey GBF your boy Puig just smashed a ball that I'm fairly sure is still orbiting earth. I've watched him the last two nights, he's not bad, not ball at all.

Also Vin Scully is still the daddy.

[LOCONUT]

Amazeballs

[Mills]

I wish the Mariners were relevant :(

[Pipkin]

I wish the Mariners were relevant :(
I had hope for that stretch from late April to early May when they were winning...then they lost something like eight in a row and have been playing .500 ball ever since.

[Mills]

Yeah, 7 under .500 and they're starting to heat up, but sheesh.

[Kneeneighbor]

Starting to heat up? They just lost 2 of the to the Twins.... THE TWINS!

[Jimmy Zero]

Yeah but they're currently playing a series with the White Sox, and that usually is a pretty potent cure for what ails a team.

[Mills]

Usually the Ms struggle vs the white Sox, its refreshing to win some games against them

[Miotch]

The White Sox are terrible this year.

I love it.

[Jimmy Zero]

They're so much worse than simply "terrible."

[Miotch]

I was going to come in here and defend them just a bit, but then I saw their away record and holy shit never mind.

[Jimmy Zero]

And it just keeps getting better and better. Unreal.

[Fro]

scored 5 in the 14th, gave up 5 in the 14th? that's rough, but you won so whatevs.

Addison Reed has been killing it on my fantasy team until this.

[Jimmy Zero]

Yeah, he'll be solid, hopefully, for at least a few years. The White Sox are alright in terms of pitching, well starting pitching, at least. They have a legit ace in Sale, if Danks can return to form then they have a solid number 2, and then a bunch of guys who are decent if unspectacular. Their position players are awful. The future looks bleak there.

[Kneeneighbor]

Some Logan Shore highlights from last night.

He is the hitter in the first AB and then you can see all of his pitches on the mound.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YREEia6eLKw

[LOCONUT]

Some LONG games today.

[Torn]

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1655859/LOL-DAVID-ROSS.gif

[Judas Iscariot]

Wang would still be a great Yankee if the National League would just join the 21st century.

[connorboy]

3-0 up bottom of the 9th. Lose 4-3

Ladies and gentlemen, the Carlos Marmol effect

[Miotch]

This is pretty cool, actually. How well do you know the rules of baseball?

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/quiz/_/id/4979/do-know-mlb-rules

I got 4 out of 10. Over thought an answer or two.

[LOCONUT]

6/10. Pretty interesting stuff.

[Kneeneighbor]

9/10

[LOCONUT]

10/10 on second run through. :happysad:

[Jenova]

Jays are making a statement winning 11 in a row, sweeping Texas, Colorado and now Baltimore.

[Pablo Diablo]

This is an exciting time. But let's keep expectations tempered until the end of the Tigers series.

[Torn]

Sorry guys you ran into the Wil Myers express.

BACK TO BACK TO BACK

http://simlb.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/rays-back-to-back-to-back-home-run-blue-jays.gif?w=350&h=180

I mean, Moore who has been all over the place pitches tomorrow and then Roberto Hernandez so that doesn't bode well but today, I will enjoy that second inning and Wil Myers' ability to hit the ball 800ft.

[Kneeneighbor]

Anyone an ESPN insider? Id like to know what they had to say today about the Buxton kid in the Minors for the Twins.

[Cewsh]

Check your PMs. :yes:

[Pablo Diablo]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/22613419/photo-twins-give-mariano-rivera-excellent-parting-gift

Well done Twins. Well done.

[Miotch]

Yeah that's pretty phenomenal. On one hand fuck the Yankees and everything about them, but there's something special about any player who plays for only one organization his entire career. You just don't see that in sport anymore, and we're talking about one of the, if not the, greatest of all time at the position.

Plus the chair is just incredible.

[Fro]

I don't think there's much doubt that he's the best of all time at his position, granted it's a position that was re-defined within the last 30 years or so. Rivera has been my favorite non-home player for a long time now. I fucking love that guy.

I jumped on the AL at +113 on the moneyline a couple days ago. Was surprised to see them as underdogs since their lineup is so filthy. Pretty much a toss up bet but what the hell, makes it a little more fun to watch.

[Kneeneighbor]

Very cool to see Rivera set up in the 8th.

A. Its where he started, setting up Wetland.

B. It also is an awesome passing of the torch to the next generation.

[Fro]

Eh, I would have much preferred to see him close, but the reason they did it was just that if the NL happened to rally in the 8th (against Nathan) then it was possible that Mo wouldn't even get a chance to pitch because the game would be over after the top of the 9th. That would have been a colossal gaff.

[TimeSplitter]

I would've liked to see him "pass the torch" if it were passed to a guy who wasn't 37 years old. Not really passing the torch since Nathan's going to retire in the next few years too...

[JRSlim21]

I found the irony of the 9th fitting. Joe Nathan, who is from Queens, pitching for the American League against Pedro Alvarez, from the Bronx by way of Washington Heights, batting for the National League.

[Miotch]

The idea of passing the torch to the next generation of closers is retarded on all levels, even without considering that it's a made up position that records a made up statistic.

[Defrost]

Every position in every sport is made up and compiles made up stats

[Christopherson]

Every position in every sport is made up and compiles made up stats


I can't tell if you are joking here (if so apologies) or you truly believe the SV is a credible stat, I mean the thing is right up there with wins and RBI's as the shittest stat ever created, in fact it's probably the worst. However Rivera is all kinds of awesome and deserves all the accolades in the world.

[Fro]

Wins over replacement is an entirely "made up" stat yet some fans think it's the be all end all. We can have this discussion for the millionth time about which stats have value and which ones haunt you guys in your sleep every night but I think Defrost's point was that saying it's made up doesn't really mean anything when tons of sports stats are made up (though I would disagree that they ALL are made up- stats like runs or home runs are straight forward while the definition of a save has weird made up rules).

Saves is a fine stat in my opinion. It has value in that pure stats like ERA don't consider that if a reliever comes in to close out a game up by 3, the team will often concede the first two runs via defensive indifference. If he closes the game without giving up the lead he did his job.

*prepares for extreme backlash from baseball nerds*

[Matty C]

I've seen this argument before and thus far, I side with Fro. A save takes into account the pressure thrust onto a reliever charged with keeping the lead at the end of a tight ball game. That pressure is real and some pitchers thrive on it, while others wilt. The Blue Jays, for example, essentially missed out on a play-off spot back in the Kevin Gregg days, because he couldn’t hold a lead to save his life. The save, and the blown save, are a very real indicator of a relief pitchers ability to deliver in pressure situations.

[Torn]

The save stat is fine for what it is, a measure of how effective you have been at not blowing a lead in the 9th inning. Yes, it's slightly contrived and a 3 run lead is arbitrary. The problem is that it's importance is massively overstated and the save total alone isn't an informative indicator of a pitchers ability in the slightest, and also doesn't really hold any predictive value for a pitchers performance in the future at all. The save stat really measures opportunity over effectiveness. A bad pitcher can easily end up with 30 saves if he's rolled out in the 9th inning consistently, we've seen it plenty of times. And the blown save is flawed in that one pitcher could consistently enter 1 run game, whilst another could consistently enter 3 run games and give up 2 runs every time. It's not a particularly big ask for a major league reliever to not give up 3 runs in one inning with the bases empty, it's a much bigger pressure situation if a pitcher enters the game with a one run lead in the 8th, no outs and the bases are loaded for example.

I also hate it when managers manage to the save rule.

[Pablo Diablo]

I agree so much with Torn's last line.

For example. My team is up by one in the 8th against the tigers. Hunter, Cabrera and Prince are due up. You will almost never see the closer (who is in theory the best one inning bullpen arm) come in this situation. Even though that is clearly when the closer is most needed.

[Hacksaw]

The save stat isn't dumb. Managers are dumb for managing to it. There really is no such thing as a bad statistic.

This page needs a little levity. Enjoy (http://www.diehardsport.com/2013/07/16/miguel-cabrera-trolls-dustin-pedroia-handshake-line/).

[Fro]

While I don't disagree, I think a manager's response to that would be that it's not about managing to the save, it's that relievers perform better when they are in a consistent role and know when they can expect to be put in a game. It might be better in that one game to pitch Mo in the 8th (just using him as an example) but over the course of the season it would be detrimental for him to have to prepare (mentally and physically) for potentially pitching in the 7th, 8th or 9th of every game.

[Torn]

I agree so much with Torn's last line.

For example. My team is up by one in the 8th against the tigers. Hunter, Cabrera and Prince are due up. You will almost never see the closer (who is in theory the best one inning bullpen arm) come in this situation. Even though that is clearly when the closer is most needed.

Yeah absolutely, I don't understand why more teams don't have their most effective reliever to be used situationally to put out fires in high leverage situations.

I also hate it when a game goes to extra innings but the manager holds back their closer in case they get a lead whilst another junk reliever blows the game. Not directly related to the save rule, but still retarded.


The save stat isn't dumb. Managers are dumb for managing to it. There really is no such thing as a bad statistic.

:yes: all about how you use it.

[connorboy]

We used to have Marmol as our closer. If we put him in facing Hunter Mig and Prince he'd give up 3 homers

[Matty C]

I can see the issue with Manager's sticking too closely to the save statistic. You need to manage to win the game and if your best pitcher is needed to hold, particularly in extras as Torn said, then your best pitcher should go in. In Pablo's scenario I don't think it's quite as cut and dry. You may very well need that electric arm for the same situation or a tie game in an inning so it's a tougher call. If you use your best arm in the 8th, with another inning to go, and you know that arm is only going one inning then you may regret it if the game is in the same place one inning later when you know that arm could have completely shut the door. At least if the lead is blown in the 8th you have another offensive series to try and tie it up. If you're away and that happens in the 9th you're done.

[Kneeneighbor]

The fact that you have to warm guys up also throws a kink into things.

Many revilers have also said that warming up to go in and not pitching in the game takes as much toll on them as warming up and going in for the inning.

[hithit]

the hebrew hammer just got hammered by mlb. gone for the rest of the year..

[TimeSplitter]

Glad to see MLB finally make more punishment for users. I suppose they can't suspend A-Rod, since he hasn't been able to play yet.

Also, solid haul for the Cubs from the Rangers. Olt will be good, and they got solid pitching back in return for the last few months of Garza.

[connorboy]

I love Matt Garza and ill be sad to see him go. He knew he was off but he's still been a beast for us this year

[Fro]

I love the Pedroia extension just announced. 7 years/100 mil. Its a long extension but at only 14 mil a year it's very reasonable.

[LOCONUT]

I couldn't be happier about Braun. Too bad the Brewers are shit and this really doesn't have the same impact on his team mates.

[Atty]

Glad to see MLB finally make more punishment for users. I suppose they can't suspend A-Rod, since he hasn't been able to play yet.


I figure that will happen the day he comes off the DL.

Really, it'll be great for the Yankees to have him be suspended the rest of the year without pay. That will be the only drawback.

[Fro]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the team gets to keep the suspended salary. I thought it goes to a league fund or charity or something. Otherwise the Yankees would be rooting for a lifetime ban, maybe even slip some roids into his gym bag.

[Kneeneighbor]

Yes the money goes to charity. The Yankees do not get to keep it.

The Yankees are rooting for him not to come off the DL all year then the insurace policy they have kicks in and covers a good portion of that cash.

[Atty]

Ugh. Stupid charities.

[turdpower]

I went to a minor league game yesterday in Fort Worth and it was bloody brilliant. I very much enjoyed the particular guy gets out; beer goes cheap.

This needs to be a thing in England, I'm thinking at the cricket.

[connorboy]

Yeah when I went to a Mets game last year there was a competition/game/celebrity video every half inning. They must have given away at least $50,000 in prizes. They even had a message from John Cena which I though was odd with him being from Boston and all that.

[Kneeneighbor]

I went to a minor league game yesterday in Fort Worth and it was bloody brilliant. I very much enjoyed the particular guy gets out; beer goes cheap.

This needs to be a thing in England, I'm thinking at the cricket.

The St. Paul Saints have the Coca Cola K man. If he strikes out everyone in the place gets a free soda. They also do a deal where if one of their players slides safely into home everyone in the park can take their tickets after the game to while castle and get a pair of free sliders.

[turdpower]

There was also a big fat man dancing on his own over by the score board.

[TimeSplitter]

I couldn't be happier about Braun. Too bad the Brewers are shit and this really doesn't have the same impact on his team mates.

This is where my problem with the suspension lies. The Brewers will be rewarded for his cheating with an even better draft pick than they were going to get, I know it isn't the teams fault, but it still sucks.



The St. Paul Saints have the Coca Cola K man. If he strikes out everyone in the place gets a free soda. They also do a deal where if one of their players slides safely into home everyone in the park can take their tickets after the game to while castle and get a pair of free sliders.

The only times I've been to White Castle are because of this.

[Atty]

http://cdn.cosbysweaters.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Hudson.gif

[Miotch]

White Castle is fucking amazing. Especially at 3 am.

[LOCONUT]

That GIF is fucking brutal.

[Fro]

It really is. Did the runner have to step to the inside of the bag like that?

[connorboy]

When your running to beat the throw I imagine you don't care what part of the bag you catch, your momentum just takes you. But yeah that looks nasty

[Mills]

I feel bad for Felix Hernandez

[Fro]

Take a look at his contract and feel better

[LOCONUT]

I feel bad for Ivan Nova.

[Mills]

Obviously I don't feel bad for him financially, but when he allows 1 run or less, he's won only 66% of the time.

[TimeSplitter]

I'm glad that the Brewers higher ups understand that they are screwed, and are now offering $10 vouchers for pretty much everything in the stadium. Gotta keep the fans somehow...

[hithit]

brewers were screwed well before the braun situation unfolded.

[Atty]

I'm surprised they aren't selling on Lohse. The guy has been quietly brilliant and could bring them a nice haul.

I'm still hearing rumors of the Tigers wanting Lincecum. Some form of a Timmy for Porcello and others could be genius for both sides. Rick has been inconsistent, like Timmy, but the Tigers could run Lince in the rotation for the season, then do what the Giants did last year in the playoffs and stick him in the pen where he'd be a massive add. Illich has the money to do something like that. Plus, Timmy and Miggy could throw brilliant parties that could save the city.

[TimeSplitter]

I think they want more for Lohse since he cost them a first round draft pick this year, and want compensation on that level.

The Phils are calling up Cody Asche, their 3rd base prospect. Where will Young go?
Jake Peavy scratched from start. Where will he go?
Bud Norris scratched from his start. Rumors about the Pirates.

I love this time of year.

Also, I hope Selig drops the hammer on A-Rod.

[Jimmy Zero]

I hope someone drops a hammer on Selig's face.

[TimeSplitter]

Peavy to the Red Sox
Apparently it involves the Sox(s) and the Tigers. Jose Iglesias is involved.

Alberto Callaspo to the A's

[Fro]

Sad to see Iglesias go but this is probably a case of selling when his value is high (no one believes he will be a .300 hitter) and also Xavier Bogaerts being the presumed future at SS in Boston.

[TimeSplitter]

If the rumor of Avisail Garcia going to the White Sox, then it is a good deal for everybody.

[Jimmy Zero]

Rumor is that at least one more prospect will be going to the White Sox, presumably from Boston, and that Detroit is sending a pitcher to Boston.

[Jimmy Zero]

White Sox get: Avisail Garcia, Cleuluis Rondon, Frank Montas, JB Wendelken
Red Sox get: Jake Peavy, Brayan Villareal
Tigers get: Jose Iglesias

Tigers gave up kind of a lot for a SS that can't hit (he's hitting way over his minor league track record so far in the majors, but hey, maybe he's figured it out), but overall this is a good trade for everyone.

[Atty]

Especially since the Tigers are probably about to lose their current SS to suspension.

[Mills]

That was a boring trade deadline, thats for sure

[hithit]

I think most trade deadlines are gonna be like that going forward due to the new cba. clubs are gonna hold onto prospects because they're cheaper.

[TimeSplitter]

If I was Alex Rios, I'd hate the waiver deadline

[Pablo Diablo]

What a bullshit apology from Braun.

[Fro]

Ortiz got hit #2000, but the biggest thing I took away from this game is that there is a pitcher named Al Alburquerque. Awesome name.

[TimeSplitter]

Carlos Gomez: Somehow a bigger dick than Ryan Braun...despicable

[Pablo Diablo]

McCann really has a thing for people admiring home runs.

[TimeSplitter]

If I were any member of the Brewers, I'd be on his case too.

[Jimmy Zero]

What's the big deal?

The Braves have been involved in a ton of this shit this season. They're a bunch of pissy little bitches.

[TimeSplitter]

They have been pretty bad about people admiring their home runs, but to verbally spar with each person in the infield while walking the base paths is disrespectful. I think there is more than we know so far about what happened.

[Kneeneighbor]

They have been pretty bad about people admiring their home runs, but to verbally spar with each person in the infield while walking the base paths is disrespectful. I think there is more than we know so far about what happened.

Gomez was hit on purpose by the pitcher back in June. He hits the bomb, watches it and starts yelling at the pitcher. That makes the 1st basemen yell at Gomez which turns into a shit show. McCann waiting at the plate should have got him run.

Gomez never actually touched the plate. They still get a run because McCann is charged with obstructing a baserunner but to me thats an instant toss for McCann.

[TimeSplitter]

Ya, I definetly think McCann should've been tossed.

[Matthew]

he didn't talk shit to every infielder. he was just talking shit to maholm. then freddy freeman starting screaming at him. so obviously he is gonna scream back, with the mood he is in. i didn't see anything really with the 2nd/3rd baseman/SS. sure, they were just defending their pitcher, but gomez was just talking shit to maholm and that is how it woulda stayed if some of the braves didn't get so angry about it

[Pablo Diablo]

I hope we get a 3-way tie tomorrow.

[connorboy]

Walk off no hitter. Now there's something

[TimeSplitter]

Off a wild pitch, no less. Good for Alvarez.

[connorboy]

Although the cynic might say the Tigers maybe wern't trying too hard. Still as you say, good on him

[Atty]

Weren't trying? It's not like they went into play without Miguel Cabrera, Victor Martinez, Torii Hunter or Austin Jackson in the lineup and only left Prince Fielder in the game for a single at bat.

[Pablo Diablo]

Someone's a little defensive. Which is more than can be said on the last pitch.

[Atty]

HEY OH!

[Pablo Diablo]

But seriously. Can't believe HENDERSON did it reserve squad or not. I did like him with the Jays last year, but never saw a no-no from him. Granted I haven't seen how he's been doing this year, but last year he just couldn't miss enough bats.

[TimeSplitter]

I'm a sucker for no-hitters no matter how they happen. I'm also really happy for the two AL wildcard games.

[Pablo Diablo]

I just wish it was 3. Damn Twins.

[Atty]

The Indians are such a good story. Ubaldo clicking on could become the stuff of legend if they win.


But seriously. Can't believe HENDERSON did it reserve squad or not. I did like him with the Jays last year, but never saw a no-no from him. Granted I haven't seen how he's been doing this year, but last year he just couldn't miss enough bats.

It's shocking. I didn't see the game but checked the score at work to see how Justin did. Didn't even notice the no hitter until I checked rotoworld an hour later. Tigers went through so many players that, and I don't mean this to downgrade the achievement at all, it seems like it could have been the type of game where no one was really paying attention. Tigers even brought Fister in for relief work as a tune up for the playoffs. Such a bizarre game.

[Pablo Diablo]

Well it was a game played in an NL stadium so that probably played a part as well. A quick look at the box score for all 3 games this series shows that the Tigers were making many switches in every game. The smart thing to do of course.

[Torn]

My nerves have been shredded.

One more game.

[TimeSplitter]

Black Monday strikes again!

Quit:
Eric Wedge (SEA)

Fired:
Dale Sveum (CHC)

Extended:
Ron Gardenhire (MIN): 2-Years
Terry Collins (NYM): 2-Years

TBD:
Joe Girardi (NYY)

As a Twins fan, I'm really glad they kept Gardy. It isn't his fault for the shitty roster.

[Kneeneighbor]

Gardy is terribel. All he ever does is say "PLAYING THEIR TAILS OFF" and add a Y to everyones name. Until he and Anderson are gone I refuse to cheer for them. I jumped off the Twins back when Punto was starting at 3rd and said I wouldnt come back until he and gardy were gone. Strarted rooting for the Pirates so as not to jump on a bandwagon.

[TimeSplitter]

Anderson is a terrible pitching coach, I won't argue that.

[Torn]

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/uL6GW7LNi0RO8wkjJSIm3g--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusmlbexperts/rayslongopricecelebrate093013.jpg

ONE MORE GAME.

[Miotch]

Sucks when you have to burn through your best pitcher just to get to the play in game.

[Torn]

I didn't realise we used Alex Cobb against the Rangers.

[Fro]

Would suck more if they didn't get off days today and thursday

[Fro]

Also I really hope the Indians win the wild card game so we get the Red Sox going against Francona.

[TimeSplitter]

I bought a ticket for the game tonight a few weeks ago in the event that the Reds would host the Pirates for $20. Looked on stub hub, standing room only tickets are $140 in Pittsburgh. Would've been good...

[Kneeneighbor]

Pittsburgh hasnt had a playoff game in over 20 years. Supply and demand.

GO BUCS!

[Torn]

:hyper:

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/20570739/182964236.0_standard_709.0.jpg

BOSTON RED SOX
WE'RE COMING FOR YOU

Alex Cobb is a man. Also, Delmon Young.

Will be nice to play a game where a loss doesn't end the season instantly for once. Winning three consecutive elimination games in three different cities in the space of a few days is a tremendous effort.

[Torn]

I HATE BASEBALL

[Fro]

You might be about to hate it more. Exciting finish here, Sox threatening to tie it in the 9th

[Kneeneighbor]

Someone should punch Rodney and tell him to put on his hat right.

[Fro]

TIED UP AND THREATENING FOR MORE

[Fro]

fucking jose lobaton what a jerk

[Fro]

at least the rays fan dropped it in the tank

[LOCONUT]

Uribe with a MONSTER bomb to win it for LA. So fucking sick.

[Torn]

LOBO. Give that man his ice cream.

One more game and all that but with Hellickson on the mound it probably doesn't extend the season for very long.

[Kneeneighbor]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7825752064/hCBF964DE/

[Pablo Diablo]

What a way to get out of the jam there by Scherzer.

[Atty]

Someday Victorino is going to be called out on strikes after being hit.

[VanillaJello]

Someday Victorino is going to be called out on strikes after being hit.

The first HBP last night, in my mind, was absolutely a strike.

[Kdestiny]

12 in 13

[MTR]

Dear GBF,

Until the NLCS is over we are enemies. I will probably say some mean things along the way. I still love you and once the Cards knock out the Dodgers, we will be friends again.

Love,
MTR

[LOCONUT]

Dodgers will sweep.

[virms]

Dear MTR,

I hope your entire team dies.

Love,
Virm

[MTR]

Dodgers will sweep.

Are you smoking crack? Neither team is going to sweep in this series. I expect 6 or 7 games.

[MTR]

Dear MTR,

I hope your entire team dies.

Love,
Virm

Talk to me when you stop supporting a team that will never win a world series in your lifetime. At least they made the post season a couple times.

[Miotch]

You two should man up and put a bet on the series you pussies.

Loser loses his adminship.

[MTR]

How about winner gets to ban you?

[Kdestiny]

Dodgers will sweep.

Nope

[LOCONUT]

Dodgers will dominate the Cards and after the series they will pull the members of the Cardinals out of the dugout and mount them sexually, destroying all their buttholes and spewing sperm all over their ugly, stupid faces.

[Miotch]

Thus proving my exertion that The Dodgers are, in fact, very very gay.

[Atty]

Bats aren't the only thing Puig likes to flip.

[Fro]

Red Sox vs Red Sox rejects would make a fine World Series

[LOCONUT]

It would definitely pull ratings.

[Atty]

I'd want Carl and the fat lesbian to combine for at least 14 home runs in the series if that were the match. Also for Beckett to magically show up and no hit those filthy vagrants.

[Fro]

You'll be happy to know everyone in Boston is rooting for you tonight. Go easier matchup!

[Atty]

Spoken just like a Yankee.

[Kdestiny]

Dodgers will dominate the Cards and after the series they will pull the members of the Cardinals out of the dugout and mount them sexually, destroying all their buttholes and spewing sperm all over their ugly, stupid faces.

I think you have a problem.

and still no

[Atty]

"FUCK YEAH!"

[MTR]

Kelley and Wacha are playing great but I don't understand why all the sudden Miller is not pitching. He pitched an inning in relief so far in the postseason. I am not sure why he is not getting one of the first two starts in the NLCS.

[Kdestiny]

I don't understand either, hopefully they can fold him in somehow

[Christopherson]

"FUCK YEAH!"


Hurray :squint:, I oh so can't wait to hear Atty gloat when/if the Tigers win. You're worse than Torn and that's saying something. Cabrera OWNS Lester as well so that should be fun.


I'm just happy to be here, it's been one of my most favourite seasons ever. You can't help but love this team (if you're a Sox fan obviously) and Koji makes everything in the world okay, he's that special.

[MTR]

For the record I am looking forward to playing the Red Sox and getting revenge over the 2004 World Series.

[Christopherson]

Aye, that's no happening mate, the Red Sox rejects and Vin Scully are gonna run riot over yooooooouuuuu.

[Atty]

Hurray :squint:, I oh so can't wait to hear Atty gloat when/if the Tigers win. You're worse than Torn and that's saying something. Cabrera OWNS Lester as well so that should be fun.


I'm just happy to be here, it's been one of my most favourite seasons ever. You can't help but love this team (if you're a Sox fan obviously) and Koji makes everything in the world okay, he's that special.

Just to clarify "FUCK YEAH" is what Justin and Miggy yelled at each other, very loudly and clearly after winning. Good thing the censors have been furloughed. ;)

[hithit]

what the hell was jay doing?

[Fro]

I think the ALCS will be a good series. The thought that Oakland would be a tougher opponent was mainly based on the fact that Miggy is hurt and only had 2 exta base hits since late August (or something like that, I forget the exact stat) but he hit a home run in game 5 so that worries me. What's his deal Atty?

[LOCONUT]

I don't wanna play anymore

[Atty]

I think the ALCS will be a good series. The thought that Oakland would be a tougher opponent was mainly based on the fact that Miggy is hurt and only had 2 exta base hits since late August (or something like that, I forget the exact stat) but he hit a home run in game 5 so that worries me. What's his deal Atty?

He's amazing, that's what. He's hurt, but he's still the best pure hitter in the game. If you're dumb enough to treat him as hurt and try a fastball in—like Sonny Gray did—he'll burn you. He can't run and his fielding will be more suspect than usual with his injury, but he can still hit.

I'd rank Detroit as tougher than Oakland based on pitching alone. Scherzer will win the Cy Young, Anibal was better but with less run support and, most importantly, Justin's up and down year made it the first year that he's not around 240-250 innings to start the playoffs. Justin in particular is of note as in his last four starts he's given up no runs with 10+ Ks in each. Fister's an easy guy to forget but he's basically the definition of clutch. Game four with Oakland, he couldn't throw a strike to save his life but figured out how to keep his team in it and he's always seemed to step up massively in the playoffs.

It's a series where, if Boston loses game one, it could rapidly get out of reach for the Sox before they realize what's happened. Especially if Detroit takes the first two, runs with Fister instead of Justin in game 3 and then they're looking at Verlander in a do or die game. I was shocked by them lining up Peavy for only one start as he's dominated Detroit basically every time he's started against them. Giving Detroit a lefty in game one is suspect as guys like Austin Jackson, Miggy and Peralta tend to wreck lefties.

[Atty]

I'm enjoying how the Boston reaction to Anibal running his pitch count up early is to start swinging early and bunting to help keep his pitch count down.