Sherlock

[Zarius]

The second season of telefilms has started in the UK. not sure if the first three have aired in the States or not.

I really enjoyed the Irene Adler one

Though I got a bit irritated with them overromantizing the Holmes/Adler dynamic, and Holmes rescuing her from the terrorisit cell was like something out of a fanfic...just silly and felt out-of-place. They should have just ended it when Holmes worked out how to access her camera phone and outfoxed her. Doyle never intended "The Woman" to have such an emotional tie to the lead character, Adler's rep as someone who beat Holmes and symbolised everything about her gender to him should not be so callously misinterpreted as mutual affection

Mycroft is sick in the head with the "flight of the dead" angle he was working on. Loved that Moriarty blew a raspberry at Big Ben when he found out about the Jumbo jet.

Another nice touch was how Holmes' traditional trolling of his dinner guests backfired on him when he worked out Molly was giving him a christmas present and dolled herself up just for him.

Looking forward to "Baskerville" next week

[Alf]

It was excellent. I do thing they should have left it with Adler outfoxing Holmes though. Not to get too feminist but they already underminded her character by making her a dominatrix, then they had her outfox holmes with help from Moriaty rather then her own guile, then she had Holmes outfox her, then had Holmes rescue her like a damsel in distress.

It was a fit-pump YEAH moment, and I did enjoy it, but thinking about it after I wish they'd taken a different route.

This is the first of the new Sherlock series I've seen and I was very impressed.

And don't worry about spoiler tags. It's aired. It's fair game. Maybe put Spoilers in the title.

[Zarius]

And don't worry about spoiler tags. It's aired. It's fair game. Maybe put Spoilers in the title.

Alrighty, I only put in the tags for the sake of American viewers , but they'll likely catch up on torrents anyway

[Guy]

This is the first of the new Sherlock series I've seen and I was very impressed.

You didn't see the last series? Because you should definitely go back and do so pretty much straight away if not.


The latest episode was genuinely amazing television. It was everything I hoped it would be and more, and probably goes a long way to explaining why the Xmas episode of Doctor Who was only so-so.

[Alf]

I know. I feel like a fucking fool missingsuch quality. The blue ray is about 8 quid at the moment.

[Jacknife]

I thin I may have seen the first parts. Did the final scene take place by a swimming pool?

[Guy]

Yus

[Chris]

The first series of Sherlock was some of the best TV in years - particularly "A Study in Pink". Definitely check out the first series.

The Irene Adler episode was a great start to the new series. I think they walked a fine line in resolving the cliffhanger from "The Great Game", but I liked it. At first I wasn't so sure about Irene being billed as someone who was Sherlock's match, especially when she initially knocked him out which anyone could have done. But Sherlock's continued failure to guess the password and other twists changed my mind. I love the fact that these episodes are 90 minutes long - it really allows the story and the characters to breathe.

I also really like how Moriarty is bubbling away in the background. I can't wait for "The Final Problem".

[BBF]

Whilst they pushed it in terms of Adler being a sexual opposition as well as a mental one, I think its probably necessary to translate Sherlock to a modern audience. If you haven't read the books you probably would enjoy it and even those of us who have read them are enjoying it so Moffat is doing it well.

Also Lara Pulver is hot as fuck.

Martin Freeman is impressing me with his performances here though, moreso than Cumberbatch. Very underrated actor. Never knew he was going out with Amanda Abbington until today either.

[Mik]

Loved everything but for the fact that it ended with the reveal that Sherlock saved her. Should've let it less obvious and more ambiguous.

[Zarius]

I wanted the episode to end right after Adler texted Holmes, with the cut-to-black and all you hear is her answer phone message (the orgasm), instead we got something out of a Brosnan-era Bond movie (as if the "007" reference wasnt cute enough)

[MikeHunt]

best programme on telly by miles. love the writing style perfectly cast.
anyone who finds things to moan about within it is nitpicking and can't enjoy things properly and most likely has something very wrong with them.

[Alf]

Or is intelligent enough to be able to see flaws in things and thoroughly enjoy them at the same time.

Don't be an dullard. Nothing is perfect.

[MikeHunt]

disagree.
i don't see the point in moaning about something that can't be changed and is bloody wonderful.
it is nitpicking at it's finest.

[Alf]

Ok everyone, Mike has spoken, probably best to shut the forums down now we have all agreed you can't moan about things.

You boring brain dead cunt.

[Alf]

Stop typing Mike, no one gives a shit about your facile opinions.

[MikeHunt]

very good alf.

i would rather hear a bit of positive about something that is clearly so good instead of boring "the ending wasn't great" or "if only they had done this". Fanboy bollocks.

why don't you just type about how much you love the rajah brethren of which you are the biggest twat. cause that is all i ever read when you post.

[Zarius]

very good alf.

i would rather hear a bit of positive about something that is clearly so good instead of boring "the ending wasn't great" or "if only they had done this". Fanboy bollocks.

"Fanboy bollocks" sums up the ending of an otherwise perfect story admirably.

[MikeHunt]

i don't relly think so.
i think it is an ending tht appeals to more people due to the fact people, (not myself) like things wrapped up in nice little basket for them. i expected nothing less from a bbc1 prime time drama.

[Aussie_Outlaw]

Sherlock quickly nicking off to Pakistan and infiltrating a terrorist cell without anyone realising he's disappeared for a bit is the least wrapped up thing about the entire show. It's ridiculous.

If they wanted to leave it wrapped up in a nice little basket, they should just push her off the top of a waterfall. Wrapped things up last time.

[MikeHunt]

i'm not say i disagree im saying i didnt expect anything less.

[Alf]

very good alf.

i would rather hear a bit of positive about something that is clearly so good instead of boring "the ending wasn't great" or "if only they had done this". Fanboy bollocks.

why don't you just type about how much you love the rajah brethren of which you are the biggest twat. cause that is all i ever read when you post.

Re-read the thread. It's over-whelmingly positive. Everyone is saying how good the show is.

It's idiotic to say we then can't talk about it's potential flaws. It's a discussion forum. Do you know how mental that makes you look when you chest beat about how people should only talk about it positively?

And that last part... you'll have to explain that to me. I barely talk 'about' my 'rajah bretheren' (whoever they are). I contribute heavily to just about every part of this forum bar the wrestling shite... so please, explain to me how my focus of my attention is exclusive to these 'bretheren'?

Stop clutching at straws. You've rolled in here lilke a loon having a pop at us for praising the show hightly but then saying "but...", you've wandered in like a wide eyed child and interupted the conversation of adults, and like a naughty kid you've had your draws pulled down and had your botty slapped over it, and now you're lurching around trying to tar me with some bollocks-brush. Try harder.

[MikeHunt]

all im saying is i dont see why the ending is viewed as so shit? and to me none of the arguements made seem to inspire me to think differently.

now please just go and read your posts regarding the rajahmeet lot and see perfecty well what i mean. its sooooo boring.
again i dont want to get into an arguement about it because you are all very defensive and sensative about the subject.

i never intend to respond or look at any of your post again main cause i think you are a massive wanker, using metaphors and smart arse comments to try and make other look stupid is great when the person bites but alas i won't.

oh just before i never look at your posts again can you tell me how funny it was when mik spewed everywhere and had on loads of jackets!!!!

[Alf]

You odd man. You odd, odd, little man. Why would you give a shit what me and Mik get up to? If you don't like it why did you read the thread? Why do you remember details like the Mik coat thing? Why would you be bothered? You sad little fucker.

No one said the ending was 'shit' either you massive idiot. Just flawed. I even said it was a fist pump moment. I.e. a 'YEAH GO ON SHERLOCK YOU BLOODY LEGEND' type moment.

Fucking hell. What an incredible bell-end. Go and have a sleep.

P.s. It was actually really funny when Mik was a broken man with 18 coats on. Being out and about messing about with some mates is fun. Try it out.

[MikeHunt]

you lot as usual spoke about it in the football threads and numerous others its quite hard to avoid really. glad you could judge me as being odd from some fucking words on a screen. go for a sleep?

HAHHAHA JACKETS!

[Alf]

i never intend to respond or look at any of your post again main cause i think you are a massive wanker, using metaphors and smart arse comments to try and make other look stupid is great when the person bites but alas i won't.


...

[Guy]

you lot as usual spoke about it in the football threads and numerous others its quite hard to avoid really. glad you could judge me as being odd from some fucking words on a screen. go for a sleep?

HAHHAHA JACKETS!

So what you're saying is...that he's not mentioned it in this thread at all then and thus it's totally irrelevant to this conversation.

Everyone has loved this new series and praised how great it is, some have then tacked onto the end of their OVERWHELMING PRAISE that the ending was a bit far fetched, but even so was a pretty cool moment regardless of how out-there it was in comparison to the rest of the show.

Of course fans of the show are going to discuss the positive and negative aspects of something they've enjoyed. You're being a bit strange here.

[eldanielfire]

Loved everything but for the fact that it ended with the reveal that Sherlock saved her. Should've let it less obvious and more ambiguous.


Indeed,the comment that it was silly fan fiction was pretty spot on. It would have been better if Holmes just receaved a text that set off the distinctive "ahhhh" after Watson left the room because the episode was pretty fantastic up until then.

[Mik]

Even just the 'ahhhh' text sound on a black screen after she'd sent it to leave it ambiguous would've been perfect.

[Zarius]

"The Hounds of Baskerville" was a decent action romp, very Resident Evil. Loved Sherlock's "mind palace" moment

When it turned out the sugar wasnt responsible for the hallucinations, my thoughts drifted back to the scene where Holmes and his client were smoking at the beggining, inhaling the fumes etc.I still think thiswould have proven a better and more grounded explanation than "it was the fog"

The antagonist sinking into the marshlands around the moore like in the original book? Nah, this is the 21st century...we gotta blow 'em up.

Why was Moriarty seen in prison at the end? I presume it's because Irene named him during her conversation with Sherlock and Microft last week, but they should have been a bit more clear on that one

[Guy]

Yea the Moriarty part at the end was baffling. Why show him locked up without showing his capture, I (and I assume a vast majority of the audience) assumed he was able to avoid being detained.

[Mik]

Not a spectacular episode for me, the ending seemed contrived just to remind us that they hadnt forgotten about him and the multiple sherlocks scrawled on the wall was twee. The episode was more spoiled by the fact that the victim of the week is a poor actor, with a distractingly irritating voice and particularly posh accent. Still, it was hard to live up to last week. Personally, from three episodes a year, id prefer one clear narrative arc throughout..

[BBF]

You on about Russell Tovey?

I actually think he's a top actor but you are right when you say his voice was distracting and irritating.

Not a bad episode but probably the weakest we've seen so far. I expect we'll see the rest of the Moriarty bit next week so don't fret about that.

Again though, I think that Martin Freeman is the standout here. Brilliant actor.

[Alf]

Not a spectacular episode for me, the ending seemed contrived just to remind us that they hadnt forgotten about him and the multiple sherlocks scrawled on the wall was twee. The episode was more spoiled by the fact that the victim of the week is a poor actor, with a distractingly irritating voice and particularly posh accent. Still, it was hard to live up to last week. Personally, from three episodes a year, id prefer one clear narrative arc throughout..

I'm usually a big fan of Tovey but his accent was all over the place tonight. It came across so forced. His acting was pretty good though I thought.

Totally agree about the Sherlock scrawlings as well. It has become a cliche.

[Guy]

His posh accent distracted me at first, but mainly because I'm so used to him not having one that it took some adjustment to pretending that he had.

I didn't find it took away from anything though.

[Mik]

I haven't seen him in much else, but most of his performance was laughably over dramatic and hysterical shrieking and it just didn't fit with the rest of the show.

[Zarius]

Next week's episode is by the guy that wrote the pirate episode of Doctor Who last year, and before that he wrote the weakest Sherlock of the first batch of episodes...strange there letting him do something as large-scale as THE Holmes/Moriarty story

[Chris]

I really enjoyed the episode. It was a nice change of setting, Sherlock experiencing doubt was refreshing and Watson got to fly solo here and there.

Russell Tovey's accent was bad enough, but I think his actual delivery of the lines was the issue. It felt a bit over-the-top and distracting.

I assume that we'll see what was going on in that scene with Morriarty next week, so I didn't mind the ending.

The Telegraph's review points out that this series is really challenging our perceptions of Sherlock. Last week, we saw him falling in love and this week we saw him scared. It should be interesting to see if the theme continues next week, particularly in a big Moriarty episode. I liked how Moriarty appeared as an hallucination when Sherlock was struggling with Dr Frankland.

[Zarius]

That was a nifty little end to the current status quoe. Liked that "The Final Problem" turned out to be existence itself, which put a bit of a metaphorical strand on a story most famous for Sherlock facing his mortality

What did Molly do for Sherlock? She sort of dissapeared after he said he wanted her...I'm guessing that whatever she did had something to do with him surviving that fall. When the paramedics spirited him away, I figured they may have been agents of Mycroft (as in the original books, Mycroft is fully aware Sherlock is alive and keeps him in hiding).

No telling where the series goes now...if he resurfaces, he'll be regarded as a disgraced carny and dismissed from any case possible, obviously he'll have to solve mysteries under assumed names for as long as this continues.

It'll be nice to see the show completly free of Moriarty's influence now, as only one episode so far has had no ties to him (Hound). Looking forward to the next batch, whenever they are.

[Guy]

I hope there's a next batch, with Freeman and Cumberbatch becoming so huge in the film-world at the moment, this could very well be it for Sherlock.

Honestly I'd much rather they had left those final 4 seconds off of the episode, keeping with the books original intention for this to be the be all and end all for Sherlock.

[Zarius]

I hope there's a next batch, with Freeman and Cumberbatch becoming so huge in the film-world at the moment, this could very well be it for Sherlock.

Honestly I'd much rather they had left those final 4 seconds off of the episode, keeping with the books original intention for this to be the be all and end all for Sherlock.

I agree, that last shot was to very likely calm down all the fangirls more than contribute to the episode dramaticly. They pulled that same stunt with "A Game of Shadows"

[BBF]

There's been confirmation of a third series.

[Guy]

I agree, that last shot was to very likely calm down all the fangirls more than contribute to the episode dramaticly.

I'd spoiler that if I were you, I know it's all a bit obvious if you've done your research but I haven't seen Game of Shadows yet and didn't know how it ended other than

At the falls

[JIJ]

That was amazing. I love this show

[Zarius]

I'd spoiler that if I were you, I know it's all a bit obvious if you're done your research but I haven't seen Game of Shadows yet and didn't know how it ended other than

At the falls

Gotcha. Spoilered now. Sorry.

Great to hear there's a third season. Also, it might mean Sherlock will rely more on being a master of disguise next year to keep his profile low

[BBF]

That was amazing. I love this show

It is really quite good, isn't it? For every show like this or Luther gives me hope for the myriad of shite on like TOWIE.

[The Rogerer]

I'd spoiler that if I were you, I know it's all a bit obvious if you're done your research but I haven't seen Game of Shadows yet and didn't know how it ended other than

At the falls
It's no more revealing than what you left unspoilered. I disagree anyway, leaving it without the last moment would be a massive momentum killer. This isn't America where we have to deal with cancellation or internal renewal.I think the tribute is the unexplainable twist. We/Watson witnessed so much directly its difficult to support the most obvious theory, but I think that's intentional to be swept under the rug

[Alf]

What did we witness?

Sherlock jumped. We saw a body hit the floor. We saw a body on the floor (with a truck infront of it, covering the view from the street). We saw watson get knocked over. We saw Sherlock with blood on him and Watson too shocked to do anything...

I think the final few seconds was fine. We could have done without Sherlock going back to the coroner lady though.

[The Rogerer]

Friend posted this explanation on facebook:Well it made a point of showing you his mannequin hanging from the ceiling earlier in the episode so I think that someone, probably the pathologist woman he asked for help from, threw that from the roof and he was already at the bottom. Does this sound plausible to you? I hope it was Sherlock you were talking about otherwise that just didn't make sense:)

[BBF]

I saw a good explanation earlier. will post it when im on my pc

[Chris]

Terrific episode to end the series. It was great to see everything fall apart for Sherlock. I really enjoyed the bit where Moriarty tried to convince Watson that he was an actor all along.

I'm glad they've decided not to fall into the trap of bringing back Moriarty every once in a while, as they did with the Daleks in Doctor Who. Best to let him go out on a high. There were some nice reflections of the final episode in the first series, and I liked how they harkened back to Donovan's warning in the very first episode that Sherlock could cross the line one day.

Martin Freeman has really impressed in this second series. He said on Graham Norton that he has such a good time on the show that he'd like to do lots of them. So I think the show will continue as long as the he and Benedict are enjoying themselves. I hope we get the third series in early 2013, but I guess it'll depend on their Hollywood commitments.

[Zarius]

Third season has been confirmed by Moffat and Gatisss on Twitter.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s129/sherlock/news/a360230/sherlock-series-three-confirmed-by-steven-moffat-mark-gatiss.html##

Now, own up, even the manliest of members here probably squeeled when Holmes said "take my hand"

[Chris]

Looking through articles on Digital Spy, it turns out there were around 100 complaints to the BBC for Irene Adler being naked and "sexually suggestive" at a pre-watershed time a few weeks ago. There was a twitter comment that said "Dominatrix?! Watershed anyone? My 10 year old was watching that".

[The Rogerer]

Looking through articles on Digital Spy, it turns out there were around 100 complaints to the BBC for Irene Adler being naked and "sexually suggestive" at a pre-watershed time a few weeks ago. There was a twitter comment that said "Dominatrix?! Watershed anyone? My 10 year old was watching that".Yeah. I had someone on twitter complain that the Daily Mail wrote an article about some people complaining and he said "It wasn't sexual, there was a reason for it." That pushed me over the edge to unfollow him. I think it was fair enough for people to complain, and it wasn't upheld anyway.

[Mik]

Still think that the guy who played Moriaty was a bit shit.

[MikeHunt]

I saw a good explanation earlier. will post it when im on my pc

where is this?

what an episode! brilliant. there is very little else is have to say.

[JIJ]

No trick. He's just a fucking hard cunt

[Mik]

I thought that the first episode was the strongest this season, personally. Although I did like the last one too.

[Zarius]

It's always hard to try and follow Moffat's stuff.

[Mik]

Im going to be a little controversial here and say that I think Luther, particularly season two, is a better show that Sherlock. Similar themes and set up, less fancy and smart, but I think Luther does the tension and the villains better. Some of the episodes from last season were enthralling.

[MikeHunt]

nah.

[Mik]

A truly stunning counter argument. I really like Sherlock, but I do think its a little gimmicky.

[BBF]

where is this?

what an episode! brilliant. there is very little else is have to say.

Sorry forgot about this. Apologieeees.

Its been covered in parts already but it talks about how all three episodes link together to form the end along with the original books.

Episode 1, Irene Adler, with Sherlock faked her death. These skills became vital to Sherlock. In the second episode, Sherlock used the 'poison' to alter Watson's perception of what he saw, something which happened again in the third. The third episode centred around mortality, specifically Sherlocks. By doing what he did, Sherlock remains 'imortal'. Moriarty also had to have assumed the identity of Sherlock at some point

The use of Moriarty in the fall could be up for debate as in the original stories as the 'fall' in the original books was both of them falling. Could be interpreted that they did both fall if Moriarty was dressed as Sherlock etc.

Thats probably not very clear but I'll try and find the actual explanation to explain it in a bit.

[Guy]

Still think that the guy who played Moriaty was a bit shit.

I enjoyed his overly camp performance, but I did laugh when my other half said "Why is he playing The Joker?"

Which, much like in Batman, makes a kind of sense. How can Sherlock read a guy who is so unpredictable? Even in his speech pattern is mental.

[MACE]

Im going to be a little controversial here and say that I think Luther, particularly season two, is a better show that Sherlock. Similar themes and set up, less fancy and smart, but I think Luther does the tension and the villains better. Some of the episodes from last season were enthralling.

:yes:

[Alf]

I bloody love Moriaty in this. He is absolutely nuts. I do think it's a tadge over the top, but I like it.

[Bluemoon]

Watched the last episode, great episode the ending was just lovely.

[Mik]

I bloody love Moriaty in this. He is absolutely nuts. I do think it's a tadge over the top, but I like it.

It feels like he's ACTING too much, it doesnt seem natural. He might as well say that he's trying to be kooky and zany and like the Ledger Joker.

[MikeHunt]

is he not also a stage actor? who imo tend to ham things up a bit more in their role on screen.

[Hobbit]

As soon as they talked about the mannequin in their gaff you could guess that'd be important and given the story that was being adapted, it made me think hmm, someone's going to fake a death...

Was excellent though, as others have said, Martin Freeman is a fucking wonderful actor and I also rate Benedict highly.

I liked Moriarty. Thought the actor was alright, nothing stunning but I didn't think he was acting too much at all, he seemed to be enjoying the role and thus I enjoyed it too. I fucking hate the biddy landlady though, whatshername. Just shit.

So another year to wait then? And in the meantime, the absolute tidal wave of shite that the BBC calls drama. It's such a shame, when they want to do decent stuff, they knock it right out, but god damn why can't it be more often? Incredibly frustrating.

[Mik]

To be fair, they are doing okay. Sherlock, Dr. Who, Luther, Great Expectations...all been class this year. The Birdsong adaptations looks great as well. There's probably more I've forgotten.

[Hobbit]

I can't get into Doctor Who at all, it's shabby children's TV. I've tried but nah, not happening. I'm nearly 25, not 15.

In fairness, I've been spoilt by my Yank drama from the last decade and the standards that shows from there have set are simply seemingly unreachable by most British efforts. Breaking Bad, Lost, The Wire, Game of Thrones, Dexter, Homeland, Boardwalk Empire. I then switch on the telly and I'm greeted with some two part Sunday-nighter set in the olden days or astonishingly average soaps. I appreciate that budgets can't allow for dynamite drama all the time, but the gap between our best efforts and foreign attempts is worrying. Sure they have their abundance of crud too but ours seems to be actively revered.

It's a moan I know, but I can't really see it changing any time soon either, as the plaudits that things like Downton Abbey and Dr Who receive are depressingly frequent.

BBC4 drama at least has some class. Wallander and the Killing :heart:

[BBF]

Neither of which are British :(

[Hobbit]

Yeah forgot to mention the irony of that, I blame my friend Vladivar vodka.

[Guy]

Have you tried Doctor Who since Matt Smith and the new writing/directorial staff took over?

I felt exactly the same about the show as you did, the Tennant era is far too childish for me to really enjoy. It's campy and hammy and cheap looking. Then I caught Matt Smith's debut episode and completely fell in love with the madness of it all.

[Mik]

I never even watched the show until Matt Smith came along.

Game of Thrones is populated by an almost entirely British cast and is filmed in Ireland. Just because its funded in America doesnt mean that we dont have the talent over here.

[Alf]

We do some superb drama too.

The Shadow Line was incredible. Luther is ace. Sherlock is brilliant. Even that sci-fi thing the beeb did a while ago was pretty good despite bad reviews. Being Human is great.

You forget that the shows you name, while brilliant, are in fact drops in the ocean compared to the absolute garbage the US system pops out too. The vast majority of the comedy and drama they churn out is absolute shite. But because of the sheer volume, and because we only really ever hear about what is successful or popular, you get what appears to be weatlh of quality.

[Guy]

Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes was also fantastic.

[Zarius]

I can't get into Doctor Who at all, it's shabby children's TV.

Oh don't be an elitist tit, Doctor Who is brilliant. It tells intelligent stories whilst entertaining the casual fan, that's something your yankie-doodle dramas can rarely manage.


'm nearly 25, not 15.

What does age have to do with anything? There IS such a thing as a show being culturally essential whilst being something for the kids, not every show is, or SHOULD be, overrated bore fests like Fringe, The Wire, and LOST. Sometimes people should embrace their inner child, not their inner emo/"world is full of horseshit" manic depressive like you obviously do.



It's a moan I know, but I can't really see it changing any time soon either, as the plaudits that things like Downton Abbey and Dr Who receive are depressingly frequent.

Yeah, suck that two intelligent wimsical dramas are getting praise they deserve isnt it?

Your opinion doesnt speak for the world ya muppet.


BBC4 drama at least has some class. Wallander and the Killing :heart:

Nobody gives a flying fuck about those shows, which is why there on BBC4.

I felt exactly the same about the show as you did, the Tennant era is far too childish for me to really enjoy. It's campy and hammy and cheap looking. Then I caught Matt Smith's debut episode and completely fell in love with the madness of it all.

Honestly, I don't see the difference between the Tennant and Smith eras, both are fun daft telly that kids can enjoy, just in different ways/. Doctor Who has always been a family show and that's never going to change

[Alf]

Doctor Who fanboy in mad rant shocker.

Wallander and The Killing are both critically acclaimed, and massively, massively popular. So well done on that front.

[BBF]

Nobody gives a flying fuck about those shows, which is why there on BBC4.



Mong.

[I steal cable]

Finally watched The Reichenbach Fall

Has anyone here read The Seven-Per-Cent Solution?

It was all I could think of whilst watching this episode, so much so that I swear that the writers got their ideas from it. All that was missing was Toby.

Loved the episode.

[Zarius]

Mong.

Oh look, you can call people names, where'd you learn that?

The U.S are making their own Sherlock, "Elementary"

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/ustv/s129/sherlock/news/a360768/elementary-cbs-develops-modern-day-sherlock-holmes-pilot.html

[MikeHunt]

100% confident that any American version of Holmes will be utter shit.

[I steal cable]

no shit sherlock

lol

but seriously, can't Americans stick with remaking shows of their own detectives like, Jessica Fletcher and Frank Dowling?

[Guy]

100% confident that any American version of Holmes will be utter shit.

http://images1.fanpop.com/images/photos/2200000/House-Season-5-New-Poster-house-md-2207723-337-500.jpg

Proves you wrong.

[Mik]

Aye, they've already got one.

[MikeHunt]

http://images1.fanpop.com/images/photos/2200000/House-Season-5-New-Poster-house-md-2207723-337-500.jpg

Proves you wrong.

How?

[Mik]

Because House is made to be a modern medical interpretation of Sherlock Holmes.

[MikeHunt]

Is it? I can't say I've ever noticed. It's not really that much like Holmes is it?

[I steal cable]

there's a lot of references to Holmes

such as him living at 221b

[Mik]

House instead of Holmes (homes), Wilson instead of Watson.

Theres lots of references.

[MikeHunt]

Never really noticed but still stand by my initial statement. Plus despite the similarities the storylines cannot be compared, whereas this new show sounds as if it will be completely based upon the Conan Doyle stories which to me sound shite.

[lotjx]

Finally, got to see all of it. I have to see, I thought it was a little bit weaker than the last season, but the first season had a lot of joy with showing ups 2000s version of Sherlock. I like the Adler story especially the end. Hound ended up being my favorite, because it had nothing to do with Moriarty. Not surprising since its one of my favorite Holmes' stories even with the God awful CGI.

If anything I thought the third one was the weakest. I did not think for one second Moriarty was an actor and the whole seed of doubt thing was really too much. I also thought Mycroft with all his power could have stepped in to stop the story as well as getting rid of the assassins. The only good thing about it was getting rid of Moriarty. I hated the actor and it seemed like he was weighing down the entire second series. I am curious to see how they are going to bring him back maybe have Watson go on his own and Sherlock helping him from time to time. Still, I thought it was still better than most still than what is on TV on sides of the ponds.

[Alf]

I don't think the audience was ever supposed to think Moriaty was an actor hired by Holmes.

[The_Mike]

Never really noticed but still stand by my initial statement. Plus despite the similarities the storylines cannot be compared, whereas this new show sounds as if it will be completely based upon the Conan Doyle stories which to me sound shite.

The stories are actually fairly comparable - they were initially written to be mysteries and detective stories, with the killer being the disease and the twist that the victim might still live if House can figure out the case in time. House and Holmes are both drug addicts, both socially inept but intellectually brilliant, both incapable of change and both willing to dive off a cliff to 'win'. House later became mired in more soap opera fare as well as adding some genuine depth to himself and those around him, which makes the series seem quite a lot different to the Holmes short stories now.

[Zarius]

Cumberbatch's "Frankenstein" co-star Jonny Lee Miller has been cast as Sherlock for the yanks "Elementary"

http://cultfix.co.uk/miller-is-sherlock-holmes-16523.htm

[Chris]

Benedict Cumberbatch has let slip that series 4 of Sherlock is confirmed. Series 3 will be shooting next week, and presumably airing at the end of the year.



Sherlock series three is set to start shooting next Monday, March 18, which is pretty exciting news - but reporters at The Radio Times have learnt there's even more to look forward to with Benedict Cumberbatch confirming that a fourth series is also on in the pipeline.

Series three of the BBC's critically-acclaimed and much-loved modern adaptation of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's detective stories has been eagerly anticipated since the second series hit the air back in January 2012, with the final episode, The Reichenbach Fall, leaving fans on tenterhooks as to what was next for the famous Baker Street resident.

That general Sherlocky sensation of how-the-what-the-is-he-alive-or-dead-and-huh was alive and well at The South Bank Show Awards this afternoon, where the RT noted down a few juicy quotes about both the third and fourth series.

"We've agreed to two more series but I could get into trouble for saying that. All I know at the moment is I'm doing these three [episodes for Series 3] and another three [episodes for Series 4]."

The Star Trek Into Darkness star was then quizzed about a possible series 5. "It just depends on Martin [Freeman} and I's availability, how long we can keep it going," came his response. "It depends on Steven [Moffat]'s ability. I'd love to keep it going."

Can't wait for more episodes. Cumberbatch's career is probably going to take off in a big way, so we're lucky to get two more series.

[Chris]

This is back tonight. Should be great. Here's the mini-episode for anyone who hasn't seen it.


http://youtu.be/JwntNANJCOE

[Darkoke]

Yeah I'm really looking forward to it.

[son_of_foley]

It was good

[Chris]

I enjoyed it. I wish there were four episodes this season, since it had to spend a lot of time on Sherlock's return and tried to sandwich in a terrorist plot as well. I liked the callbacks to the previous series in terms of dealing with Moriarty and the way they addressed the hype surrounding the cliffhanger was mostly amusing. I think the show always walks a fine line between being humorous and outright zany, much like the Moffat-helmed era of Dr Who. Sometimes it works and other times it doesn't.

My favourite scene was the detective-off between Sherlock and Mycroft. Mark Gatiss is great and I'd love an episode centred on him in the future.

[The Rogerer]

It's too zany for my tastes. It's also got that same clumsy bizarre editing that Dr Who and other BBC stuff has that turns me off. I did still watch the whole thing, mind. Just with some eyerolls. Growing to love Martin Freeman more and more.

[McBain]

I enjoy it a lot. Nice light-hearted fun with a great cast.

[The_Mike]

I felt the same as Rogerer (there's a surprise!). A bit too zany to take seriously, and to be honest too Moffaty. Our dashing hero is so absolutely wonderful that everyone wants to jump him and if they can't they'll look for second-rate lookalikes wearing the same coat. I really enjoyed season one and two but this episode was fan-fic style hero worship with the odd tame swipe directed at fans (you care about this character and his survival? You saddoes!), for some reason. Also lol gay jokes!

Good performances as usual, especially Martin Freeman who added a lot to the sense of being wounded by Sherlock not bothering to tell him he was alive. I had to laugh at what appears to be Dr. Claw as the main villain. He'll get you next time Sherlock. Next time!!

[Alf]

It was very Russell T with all the obsession over gay characters.

[The Rogerer]

When Sherlock and Moriarty went for the kiss I was completely prepared for it, as it's a trick that True Blood did 20 times. Right, which actors want to feel like they're in porn this week? Dream sequence! Can't wait to see the gifs on tumblr.

[Chris]

I like Moffat, but he does have a peculiar approach when it comes to teasing fans. It comes across very "Haha we fooled you" and quite smug in a patting-himself-on-the-back kind of way, when the deception was merely an outright lie about something he said a year ago at a press conference. Maybe he doesn't intend to come across that way.

I like the fact that the show is light-hearted. But I didn't like how the bomb situation was played for laughs, particularly as they went about it in such a predictable manner. Same way they resolved the season one cliffhanger with a funny ringtone. You do that too often and the drama doesn't work because you're waiting for the other shoe to drop. The new episode veered too much in that direction. There needed to be an out-and-out argument about the way Sherlock had devastated Watson, but every time they got going it was interrupted by a sudden burst of violence. It was funny the first time and then got repetitive.

I still enjoyed it though. Hopefully it settles down for the second episode now that they have Sherlock's return out of the way.

[LOCONUT]

I really liked it. Felt much more slickly produced than previous seasons.

[Pablo Diablo]

So what's everyone's take on the shows new direction it's taken so far this season (which I suppose is 2/3rds done now). It's been less case and more personal development I find. It's still very well done but I feel I preferred the previous seasons.

Also episode 2 spoiler

I don't know why we didn't get a single mention of the over-arching baddy for this season in this episode.

[The_Mike]

The second one was worse than the first in my opinion. It was like a lazy sitcom with so many predictable jokes and wacky antics, but it lasted 90 minutes, making it three times worse. Comicbook fans can't get laid and drunk people getting their words mixed up was the height of the humour, and the case was just stupid.

Soldiers aren't going to feel someone stabbing them in the liver? Really? It's just a contrivance to give Sherlock time to make an arse of himself at the wedding, but Moffat can't explain the nonsensical nature of the whole thing away with 'timey wimey'. The belt retaining the internal bleeding is a real thing, true, but unless it happened while under stress and with adrenaline flowing I don't believe for a second they wouldn't notice getting skewered deeply.

Two misses for me so far, the first being a closer run thing than the second, but both suffering from simply not being Sherlock any more. It's like they completely forgot what brought the fans to the table, and are instead serving up heaping portions of fanservice.

[JP]

Probably my favourite episode since the show launched. Managed to mix the light-hearted with some seriously emotional stuff and really opened up the character of Sherlock in a way we haven't seen. The 'whodunit' aspect was light but I think that was appropriate given the central theme of the episode.

I've seen a lot of people complaining that it wasn't what they were expecting, which I feel is unfair. I wasn't expecting such a comedic and emotional centered episode, but that's irrelevant, what's important is how well it's pulled off and in this instance they did it marvelously.

[The_Mike]

I disagree it was pulled off well, I thought the comedy was rather hackneyed to be honest. I don't mind a show pulling something very different out of their hat now and then (The Body, from Buffy, is like nothing else in the series or that I've ever seen on TV and was absolutely fantastic), but if they're not going to give us what we came for they have to replace it with something of exceptional quality to avoid the audience feeling unsatisfied. I don't remember the previous series' comedy bits being like something from My Family or latter-day Only Fools and Horses. I didn't really buy the emotional aspect much either - Sherlock talks about being made a better man and being saved by Watson, but continues to act exactly like himself and never explains why he traumatised his supposed friend by faking his death and not telling him.

He even leaves early, which to me was the best part of the episode. It's obviously a callback to earlier where Mrs. Hudson says how sad it was when somebody left a previous wedding early. I don't think he's changed at all, except to the extent of trying to let Watson go and feeling miserable about it. Which is a direction I actually find interesting for the character, so that's a plus.

But that's just my opinion and I'm not trying to start an argument. To each their own, and maybe I just wasn't in the mood for the episode when I watched it.

[LOCONUT]

I don't really take the comedic elements as straight forward comedy. It is all just banter to me and meant to be charming rather than hilarious. This episode was definitely over the top but I still enjoyed it a lot. I have watched all 8 episodes in a 2 week span so this is now going to be the longest I have had to wait for an episode. Really not wanting this to end.

[The Rogerer]

The episode further solidifies the fact that this show is aimed at a generation of gif posting fanfic writers who squee about shipping and that's all well and good. It wants to be something like Buffy too much for me (I really, really dislike Joss Whedon so let's draw that line in the sand right now), and I don't care for the reptition of serious moments leading to ahiggedyhiggedy that's all folks! all the time. I also very much dislike the way it's filmed/edited/scored, which is very similar to how I feel about Doctor Who.

So I am whining about it but I fully admit that it's not for me. I just didn't see it coming that I would prefer Elementary far more than this, but I seem to be allergic to BBC drama.

[LOCONUT]

Is Elementary worth a watch?

[JP]

I tired of Elementary pretty quickly. I have no problem with formulaic drama but if it's going to be so it really needs to be a higher class to grab my attention for the long term, something like Bones or (appropriately) House.

[MikeHunt]

Is Elementary worth a watch?

Vinny Jones is in it and it's absolutely shit.

loved last nights again. This show can do no wrong for me.

[Chris]

But that's just my opinion and I'm not trying to start an argument. To each their own, and maybe I just wasn't in the mood for the episode when I watched it.
Nope, I fully agree that it was a poor episode. Easily the worst episode of the show's history, and much poorer than the previous episode which got a bit carried away at times but still had some good character stuff. This was the show in a hyper-reality, overly self-aware of its audience and own hype. The editing and visual style is usually inventive or slick, and this episode felt like someone showing off to the point where it became intrusive and annoying. And I honestly thought you could have swapped Sherlock during the best man speech for Sheldon Cooper and not have noticed any difference. The character was portrayed so broad and one-dimensional - Sherlock says nasty thing, Sherlock says awkward thing, Sherlock admits true feelings for John, back to nasty thing, back to awkward thing, oh let's throw in another sentimental bit, rinse and repeat.

By god, the wedding scenes went on for so long and to be honest this huge focus for an hour and a half is not really earned when we've seen nothing of John and Mary's relationship. As for the crime, that was the barmiest means of killing someone that they've come up with yet and I think it was a step too far even for this show. They need to hit a home run with the final episode because this series has been disappointing so far.

[LOCONUT]

Hadn't realized the blonde was Watsons real life wife. Also Sherlocks parents were Cumberbatch's actual folks.

[The_Mike]

The episode further solidifies the fact that this show is aimed at a generation of gif posting fanfic writers who squee about shipping and that's all well and good. It wants to be something like Buffy too much for me (I really, really dislike Joss Whedon so let's draw that line in the sand right now), and I don't care for the reptition of serious moments leading to ahiggedyhiggedy that's all folks! all the time. I also very much dislike the way it's filmed/edited/scored, which is very similar to how I feel about Doctor Who.

So I am whining about it but I fully admit that it's not for me. I just didn't see it coming that I would prefer Elementary far more than this, but I seem to be allergic to BBC drama.

Funnily enough I am a Whedon fan and I feel exactly the same.


Is Elementary worth a watch?

I'd say so. It definitely gets formulaic but at least the cases seem to matter most of the time and aren't thrown together little side-stories to act as though "oh yeah, we didn't forget what Sherlock Holmes does amongst all the fan-wank". Their Moriarty is approximately a billion and eleven times better than Sherlock's as well.


Nope, I fully agree that it was a poor episode. Easily the worst episode of the show's history, and much poorer than the previous episode which got a bit carried away at times but still had some good character stuff. This was the show in a hyper-reality, overly self-aware of its audience and own hype. The editing and visual style is usually inventive or slick, and this episode felt like someone showing off to the point where it became intrusive and annoying. And I honestly thought you could have swapped Sherlock during the best man speech for Sheldon Cooper and not have noticed any difference. The character was portrayed so broad and one-dimensional - Sherlock says nasty thing, Sherlock says awkward thing, Sherlock admits true feelings for John, back to nasty thing, back to awkward thing, oh let's throw in another sentimental bit, rinse and repeat.

By god, the wedding scenes went on for so long and to be honest this huge focus for an hour and a half is not really earned when we've seen nothing of John and Mary's relationship. As for the crime, that was the barmiest means of killing someone that they've come up with yet and I think it was a step too far even for this show. They need to hit a home run with the final episode because this series has been disappointing so far.

Yes, who is Mary anyway? She just sort of appeared, made a few quips to show she's just as smart as Sherlock (not literally but we're supposed to get that she can hold her own, I suppose) and even more sensible and confident, and then occasionally agrees with whatever is being said. Do not like the character one bit, because she seems like an empty female Sherlock. I see no reason to care about her and John getting married and it is abundantly clear that this won't change anything for John other than him having another Sherlock demanding his time. She'll probably bite it in the third episode and we'll be supposed to cry, until Sherlock says something silly and then Mrs. Hudson jokes that the two will be having bum sex again then.

[MikeHunt]

I don't think you should bother watching anymore mike

[Chris Scott]

Probably my favourite episode since the show launched. Managed to mix the light-hearted with some seriously emotional stuff and really opened up the character of Sherlock in a way we haven't seen. The 'whodunit' aspect was light but I think that was appropriate given the central theme of the episode.

:yes:

Defiantly my best episode.

[The Rogerer]

http://infinitelyfullofhope.wordpress.com/2014/01/06/steven-moffat-and-infantilisation/

Moffatism

[McBain]

The latest episode dragged so much, that I was bored to tears in places. The ending redeemed it somewhat by the way all the pieces came together though.

[The_Mike]

I don't think you should bother watching anymore mike

Sigh.

[MikeHunt]

Well you clearly don't enjoy it at all. Why torture yourself?

[The_Mike]

http://infinitelyfullofhope.wordpress.com/2014/01/06/steven-moffat-and-infantilisation/

Moffatism

A beautiful deconstruction. I really do feel like the first two seasons weren't nearly as bad for this, though. Do I just not remember them well enough? I did not actually see them as they aired and only watched about a year ago on Netflix, and I really liked them at the time.


The latest episode dragged so much, that I was bored to tears in places. The ending redeemed it somewhat by the way all the pieces came together though.

The ending at least seemed to remember to tie all the threads together, and buoyed the episode a fair bit for me. Probably as good as they could manage with the handicap of a stupid murder method and the premise of giving us an hour-long wedding reception starring a bride nobody knows.


Well you clearly don't enjoy it at all. Why torture yourself?

Except I didn't say I don't enjoy it at all, and why can't I talk about a show that I have generally enjoyed but am currently disappointed with? It's a discussion forum for goodness sake. I do not need your leave to discuss things.

[MikeHunt]

Alright you big sensitive SALLY.

Just a suggestion. If I wasn't enjoying something like I used to I personally wouldn't bother my arse. I've never seen the end off the top of my head oz, 24, prison break because the standard dropped. I think it's a simple solution to not constantly rolling your eyes at the telly and being disappointed.

[The_Mike]

It's been two episodes that have disappointed me, you tube. I'm not sitting here watching five more seasons and continuing to whine about it.

[MikeHunt]

Two episodes that amount to 3 hours. That are 2/3 of a series. In essence you are watching half of something and moaning like fuck. You clearly have an issue with moffats style of writing in general as evidenced by your praise of the article rog posted. If I was you I just wouldn't bother with the last episode cause it's more than likely going to follow the same style.

[Chris]

http://www.empireonline.com/empireblogs/small-screen/post/p1441

I agree with a lot of things in this review. I think that article about Moffat above is completely over-the-top at times, as are many of the criticisms of the man. For me, the problem with this series is simple - less of a sustained focus on the case and more time devoted to the characters. Hardly a bad thing on paper. But unlike the previous series, the character stuff is far less subtle and overly schmaltzy. Looks like next week is the big bad, so hopefully the episode will be a bit more grounded and less haphazard.

[son_of_foley]

I didn't enjoy the wedding episode at all. I think using the best man speech as the mechanism felt so clunky

[McBain]

http://www.empireonline.com/empireblogs/small-screen/post/p1441

I agree with a lot of things in this review. I think that article about Moffat above is completely over-the-top at times, as are many of the criticisms of the man. For me, the problem with this series is simple - less of a sustained focus on the case and more time devoted to the characters. Hardly a bad thing on paper. But unlike the previous series, the character stuff is far less subtle and overly schmaltzy. Looks like next week is the big bad, so hopefully the episode will be a bit more grounded and less haphazard.

Agreed. That Moffat critique article is ridiculous.

My gf had previously said how she wished their was far less focus on the case and more on the characters. We both acknowledged the other night that this is what had happened and that in hindsight it's just not as good this way.

[The_Mike]

Two episodes that amount to 3 hours. That are 2/3 of a series. In essence you are watching half of something and moaning like fuck. You clearly have an issue with moffats style of writing in general as evidenced by your praise of the article rog posted. If I was you I just wouldn't bother with the last episode cause it's more than likely going to follow the same style.

You're not me, so you don't get to tell me what to do. And if anyone's moaning like fuck it's you and your insistence on bitching about somebody daring to share a generally (not exclusively, as I have pointed out already) negative opinion about two episodes of a TV show I tend to enjoy. I thought Rog's article was a lovely deconstruction of the stereotypes of Moffat's writing, but I have already said plenty of times that I have enjoyed a lot of his stuff regardless. What's wrong with you? Why do you have this desperate need to tell someone what to talk about and what to watch?


http://www.empireonline.com/empireblogs/small-screen/post/p1441

I agree with a lot of things in this review. I think that article about Moffat above is completely over-the-top at times, as are many of the criticisms of the man. For me, the problem with this series is simple - less of a sustained focus on the case and more time devoted to the characters. Hardly a bad thing on paper. But unlike the previous series, the character stuff is far less subtle and overly schmaltzy. Looks like next week is the big bad, so hopefully the episode will be a bit more grounded and less haphazard.

I think the previous Moffat article is meant to be tongue-in-cheek, though. It's being meta by going overboard in copying Moffat's style to lampoon an general sense of his writing. I've only seen about ten minutes of Coupling and hated it, so maybe the criticisms of that were much harsher than warranted, though. But anyway, I agree with your main issue with this season: it's just become a platform for playing with the characters rather over the cases, and that wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't done poorly.


I didn't enjoy the wedding episode at all. I think using the best man speech as the mechanism felt so clunky

Stop moaning like fuck!

[MikeHunt]

Sensation SALLY! Are you having to wear your chubby clothes again? Is it getting you a bit down?

[Chris]

That was back to the Sherlock I enjoy. At least the series went out on a high note. Magnussen was a delightful bastard.

[JP]

That is only as amazing as it was if what comes before it was what is was.

I actually preferred last weeks episode, but that was bloody brilliant and genuine chills and goosebumps at the end there.

[Mik]

Good episode, but ugh to Moriarty being back again.

[Alf]

Shouldn't have read that. Fuckerty fuck fuck.

Saying that, I thought it was coming anyway with a nice twist on the 'How did Sherlock survive?' thing.

[MikeHunt]

loved it.

wait for the endless fanfiction for the next 2 years before we get more episodes.

[Alf]

Ahaha, Magnussen is a nutball. I love him.

The eye flicking was beautiful.

[McBain]

Was alright.

[The_Mike]

Much better than the last two episodes. Still not quite the focus on a specific case I usually like but a much better tone this time, with an interesting villain and a terrific resolution. Holmes just doing it is something I'm very surprised the BBC, and Moffat, would go for. I wonder if the Murdoch press will claim it's some sort of revenge fantasy from the murderous liberals at the BBC.

Moriarty coming back sounds shit, though. I assume it'll be some underling or twin brother or some bullshit to at least get around the fact he blew his brains out in front of a witness, but Magnussen proved we don't need that drooling lunatic around to have good stories.

[Fanny]

so when Sherlock isn't clever enough to outsmart the bad guy or they don't have another adequate way to tell the story, he just shoots them in the head. Excellent great glad we've established that. He can just do that to all the baddies now, surely, and get of with it?

[Fanny]

also, I think Moriarty faking that death would've been far more plausible and believable than Sherlock having faked his which, in case no-one's noticed, hasn't necessarily ever been explained.

[The_Mike]

so when Sherlock isn't clever enough to outsmart the bad guy or they don't have another adequate way to tell the story, he just shoots them in the head. Excellent great glad we've established that. He can just do that to all the baddies now, surely, and get of with it?

It's a bit of a cheat for the writers, but it's the rational choice in this instance and it sets Sherlock apart by making it plain he'll do what it takes to get the job done. He has long been established as a psychopath who happens to be on the right side. I have much more issue with the fact that neither Mycroft nor Watson seemed all that bothered, but we didn't get a lot of time for their reactions, so maybe they'll mine that later.


also, I think Moriarty faking that death would've been far more plausible and believable than Sherlock having faked his which, in case no-one's noticed, hasn't necessarily ever been explained.

How would that be more plausible? He put a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger in front of Sherlock (and us). Am I forgetting some shenanigans that happened there? At least Sherlock had the great big fall to obfuscate what was going on with him, though I think not bothering to explain it has hampered the entire season.

[Chris Scott]

Think this series has been a lot more experimental than the first two - with mixed results. Lots of great stuff for the hardcore fans, possibly not enough for the casual or first time viewer.

I'd hope the next series gets back to a slightly more traditional mode of storytelling, a murder, the cops call Holmes in, he solves it, it's a successful formula for a reason, and while I think it was bold and clever to do away with it, there comes a point when you need to get back to what makes the concept work in the first place.

But yes I quite liked season 3.

[Newf]

He has long been established as a psychopath

*High-functioning sociopath

http://imgur.com/60OOdpk.gif

[Mik]

Think this series has been a lot more experimental than the first two - with mixed results. Lots of great stuff for the hardcore fans, possibly not enough for the casual or first time viewer.

I'd hope the next series gets back to a slightly more traditional mode of storytelling, a murder, the cops call Holmes in, he solves it, it's a successful formula for a reason, and while I think it was bold and clever to do away with it, there comes a point when you need to get back to what makes the concept work in the first place.

But yes I quite liked season 3.

I think that I agree with you.

[Chris Scott]

Got the first 2 seasons for the missus Xmas present, think I'll watch them again soon.

[lotjx]

Man, I loved the first episode of season 3. I just hope they don't bring Moriarty back.

[The_Mike]

Alas, poor lotjx.

[Pablo Diablo]

So far behind us Brits...yes that's how I've seen them all already.

[Chris]

Don't know how they're going to follow through on the big twist at the end, but I'm not going to get too hyped about it. I think they made it very clear in the first episode of season 3 that the fans cared more about how Sherlock survived than the writers did, to the point of making fun of it for most of the episode and never really confirming how it happened. I'm more interested in how they handle Sherlock's response to Magnusson. I can buy the idea of him feeling the need to do it, since he was essentially the anti-Sherlock, but there should be consequences. Hope they aren't going to undo it simply because Moriarty is now the priority. So on the one hand I was glad to see that they aren't going to spend half of the first episode of season 4 getting Sherlock back to London, but at the same time I hope it wasn't just a big reset button literally 2 minutes after he was exiled.

[Newf]

PBS started airing season 3 last night. Got my dad to watch it as he's a fan of Elementary but had never seen Sherlock, meanwhile I started with Sherlock and ranted and raved about it before I'd ever seen an episode of Elementary (though I enjoy them both equally in their own separate ways.) He seemed to enjoy it and I'll think he'll tune in the next two Sundays.

[Mik]

Don't know how they're going to follow through on the big twist at the end, but I'm not going to get too hyped about it. I think they made it very clear in the first episode of season 3 that the fans cared more about how Sherlock survived than the writers did, to the point of making fun of it for most of the episode and never really confirming how it happened. I'm more interested in how they handle Sherlock's response to Magnusson. I can buy the idea of him feeling the need to do it, since he was essentially the anti-Sherlock, but there should be consequences. Hope they aren't going to undo it simply because Moriarty is now the priority. So on the one hand I was glad to see that they aren't going to spend half of the first episode of season 4 getting Sherlock back to London, but at the same time I hope it wasn't just a big reset button literally 2 minutes after he was exiled.

I'd say thats exactly whats happened.

[Simon]

It seems pretty much nailed on that Magnusson will be forgotten now, seeing as Sherlock's already been given what amounts to a pardon to get him back working on the new Moriarty case. Mycroft is a handy character for the writers, in that his unspoken power seems to have no boundaries. Whenever they want to get Sherlock out of a scrape, they can just scream MYCROFT DONE IT and that seems to be accepted.

The explanation of Sherlock does bug me. I'm not sure whether I'm in the "Sherlock's explanation is the truth" camp or the "there was no proper explanation" camp. Sherlock's explanation was barely more credible than the ones put forward by the conspiracy theorist.

I came to this show very late (missus got the DVD of the first two series for Christmas, caught up with all of them just in time for the last episode of the third on TV) and I bloody loved it, against my expectations. I'd not had much knowledge of Sherlock Holmes prior to the show - to the extent that I didn't realise Sherlock was his name, I always assumed it was another word for a detective :ashamed: - so I don't know if the criticisms of the change in style are justified, but as a mystery it was great. I loved the style and the humour. Sometimes it seemed a little bit too confusing and didn't explain things properly, which is annoying for a div like me because I don't know when it's poor writing and when I'm just being thick. But overall I really, really enjoyed it. Moriarty was fantastic.

[Alf]

Moriaty was incredible. I kind of like that they don't seem to intend to explain how he did it.

[Fanny]

fake gun, blood packet exploded underneath a fake wig bit on his hair. Infinitely more explicable than Sherlock's.

[Simon]

Are you lot thinking Moriarty is actually back then? I assumed that he just put some sort of plan in motion in case he died, so he could continue taunting Sherlock from beyond the grave. Having another "he wasn't really dead" would be a bit of a cop out, whereas with my theory he can still be in the show in flashbacks of putting the plan in motion, but remain dead.

[Alf]

fake gun, blood packet exploded underneath a fake wig bit on his hair. Infinitely more explicable than Sherlock's.

Sorry, I meant I like that they don't really properly definitively explain how Sherlock did it.

[Fanny]

never apologise

[The_Mike]

fake gun, blood packet exploded underneath a fake wig bit on his hair. Infinitely more explicable than Sherlock's.

Except Sherlock was there and is far too intelligent and observant for this to go unnoticed. The cops that took over the scene once Sherlock was 'dead' would have to be in on it as well, which probably would mean Mycroft faked both deaths, and for what purpose? To set up a playdate for the two of them a couple of years later once Sherlock finally murdered someone?


Are you lot thinking Moriarty is actually back then? I assumed that he just put some sort of plan in motion in case he died, so he could continue taunting Sherlock from beyond the grave. Having another "he wasn't really dead" would be a bit of a cop out, whereas with my theory he can still be in the show in flashbacks of putting the plan in motion, but remain dead.

I'm pretty sure this will be the case, but the way last season was written, they might well just do something that stupid/desperate. Though at least a live Moriarty can poke at Sherlock for being a murderer like him, that could be interesting.

[lotjx]

Moriarty being alive would be more of a jump the shark moment than Sherlock. At least with Sherlock, they are teasing the fans about how he is back. There is no way, I would buy that Moriarty is alive if Mycroft was involved in covering everything up. I am sure they carved him up during the autopsy. I am ok if its a plan from beyond the grave, but they need to move on from Moriarty is behind everything. There are villains and mysteries in the Doyle library, they can go with.

Sherlock killing Moriarty is the extent of Seal Team Six killing Bin Laden, they are basically holding parades for Sherlock. Moriarty also offed himself. The coward.

[The_Mike]

Yes, nothing screams cowardice like putting a loaded gun in your mouth and pulling the fucking trigger...

[lotjx]

To me, it is.

[The_Mike]

Then you're wrong.

[Mik]

He's hardly the first to argue that offing yourself when the going gets tough is cowardly though.

[JP]

This definitely isn't the place to get into a generalised debate on suicide.

In terms of specifically Moriaty, of course it wasn't cowardly, before or after we found out he wasn't actually dead. Before it was the action of a crazed psychopath, not someone who was afraid of the consequences of his actions. After, it was an attempt to ensure Sherlock's death while giving himself time away to plan whatever the fuck is going to happen next. Cowardice doesn't come into it.

[Simon]

Was there any analysis of how close Moriarty is to the Joker in this version of the Holmes stories?

[Alf]

Oh, good pick that. I didn't really realise but I'd say that's a spot on comparison. Especially the most modern incarnation of the Joker in the comics.

[Mik]

You're joking...right?

[lotjx]

He is defiantly not the Moriarty, we know. Not some old dude with a master plan and bunch of henchmen. Even in the RDJ Sherlock films, he is a bit older and daper, their Moriarty probably just learned to shave. He is a bit like Joker in the sense, he has some insane plan that there is no good way out and his mannerisms are just as flashy. Either way, I think he is garbage and I have since Season 1. He is just too much of a show boat for a master criminal and the constant game if you can do something, I can do it better if he is alive is just stupid. Moriarty would have never come out of the shadows in the pool scene with all the explosives and guns. He would never have tried the pull, I am just an actor when one phone call from Mycroft would have ended that. It was all so stupid. Which it looks like he did to start the season.

I am not a big fan of the last episode of Season 2 since they throw themselves into such a hole, they are joking their way out of it. Part of the reason, they are in the hole is how they made Moriarty out to be this impossible foe and you need to make impossible choices. Yet, still want to continue on this show, so now you need ludicrous ways to get out of impossible things. Again, they don't need Moriarty to continue on. There is literally hundreds of Holmes stories they can draw from. Yet, I wasn't that big of fan of how they handled Hound, so who knows.

[Simon]

I don't mean his back story or his intentions Mik, I just mean his mannerisms and attitude.

I saw (for the first time) The Dark Knight around the same time I was watching Sherlock and the characters are very similar, to the point that I looked for interviews to see if this was deliberate on the part of the actor/director. Like I said I'm very much a newcomer to both Sherlock and Batman, maybe it's something you only notice as a newcomer and perhaps doesn't really stand up if you know more about either/both characters.

[Alf]

His intentions are pretty similar to The Joker's too to be honest.

[Mik]

I meant are you joking, it seems pretty obvious that the actor playing Moriarty (dont remember his name at the moment, dont enjoy his performance at all) was doing his best Joker impression in Sherlock.

[The_Mike]

He is defiantly not the Moriarty, we know. Not some old dude with a master plan and bunch of henchmen. Even in the RDJ Sherlock films, he is a bit older and daper, their Moriarty probably just learned to shave. He is a bit like Joker in the sense, he has some insane plan that there is no good way out and his mannerisms are just as flashy. Either way, I think he is garbage and I have since Season 1. He is just too much of a show boat for a master criminal and the constant game if you can do something, I can do it better if he is alive is just stupid. Moriarty would have never come out of the shadows in the pool scene with all the explosives and guns. He would never have tried the pull, I am just an actor when one phone call from Mycroft would have ended that. It was all so stupid. Which it looks like he did to start the season.

I am not a big fan of the last episode of Season 2 since they throw themselves into such a hole, they are joking their way out of it. Part of the reason, they are in the hole is how they made Moriarty out to be this impossible foe and you need to make impossible choices. Yet, still want to continue on this show, so now you need ludicrous ways to get out of impossible things. Again, they don't need Moriarty to continue on. There is literally hundreds of Holmes stories they can draw from. Yet, I wasn't that big of fan of how they handled Hound, so who knows.

Well, not literally hundreds but certainly a good number, and it is frustrating to see them go back to the well, particularly when it's just so needless. If they can't come up with something on their own, at least crib some more of Doyle's stories. They have plenty of fanboys now, surely they don't need to parade the big name of Moriarty all over the screen to maintain interest? Though if we look at the wedding episode, perhaps it is for the best if Moffat and co aren't trying to be too creative after all...

Anyway I totally agree on Moriarty looking like he was practically a child. That voice, too. Ugh. And his sociopathic schoolboy routine flies in the face of his master criminal character. He doesn't seem able to have an actual conversation without bouncing off the walls and giggling like a tit, so how could he possibly function to a high enough level to work out all his schemes? I don't think they'd let him stack shelves in Tesco.


I meant are you joking, it seems pretty obvious that the actor playing Moriarty (dont remember his name at the moment, dont enjoy his performance at all) was doing his best Joker impression in Sherlock.

That was the best he could do, eh? Oh dear.

[Pablo Diablo]

lotjx just reiterating that everyone else in this thread has finished the current season so if you don't want anything spoiled you should probably not read the thread until you've caught up as I feel you still have only seen episode 1 of this season.

[LOCONUT]

Nice of you to warn the guy who always spoils things.

[Mik]

Maybe it'll teach him something about spoiler manners.

[lotjx]

Actually, I have only seen the first episode of this season. So, when people are talking about the wedding and Moriarty's plans, that is not me. I am a bit pissed about having that stuff spoiled for me as well, but we are past that point. Plus, I thought all the Moriarty stuff was theories anyway.

[LOCONUT]

I loved that last episode. The Mary stuff could have been terrible but for some reason I really enjoyed it. The Moriarty bits I don't know what to make of it. Why bother with the "we fooled you, sherlock isn't dead" only to have a "we double fooled you, Moriarty isn't dead either" bit a few weeks later. Meh.

[Romford Pele]

Great show and series 3 delivered.

Without revealing spoilers, leaves it open ended for a 4th Series, though I'm not 100% sure that will happen.

Anyone know?

[The_Mike]

There will definitely be a season 4, I believe Cumberbatch and Freeman are contracted for at least another three episodes.

[MikeHunt]

they signed for a 4th and 5th series this was widely reported.

[lotjx]

Awesome. Loved the second episode of this season.

[Romford Pele]

Great, thanks for confirming.

[lotjx]

Well...95% of episode three was great, the last 5% was ugh.