Star Trek thread

[Aussie_Outlaw]

For Dr. Atty!

Not enough news about the new movie and trek in general? What?

In the past few month we've got news that:

Movie is delayed until Dec 2012 instead of July 2012
A nutter is considering a pitch for a new series
They're doing a few TNG episodes on Blu-Ray (which could lead to an eventual series)


The TNG on Blu-Ray is the current news. Which is annoying since TNG is a horrible and bland series and the episodes they're talking about including are Farpoint, Sins of The Father & Inner Light. Not exactly episodes which need a retouching.

They've got 1, the pilot which is incredibly dated but still the best episode included which could do with a remaster, Sins of the Father (klingons ugh) & Inner Light (more of a simple dramatic piece, good episode but not exactly needing a touch-up).

Why not just go with Best of Both World & All Good Things? I guess it's an idea to pick simple episodes and see if there's a market to do the blockbuster episodes.

DS9 needs a remaster, the set had so much detail and could look fantastic, but the ship on TNG will just look empty and bland and boring.

[Bill Casey]

I look forward to THERE ARE FOURTY FOUR LIGHTS!!!

[The Rogerer]

Didn't the TNG pilot have a man walking around the background with a Starfleet dress on? I was disappointed they didn't take that forward.

My other memory of it was "Let's separate the saucer section for what feels like fifteen minutes... Let's never do that again."

Looking it up, 1987, wow. 24 years. I can remember the 25th anniversary of the original series and how far away that felt at the time.

[Beefy]

An episode like Inner Light (my personal favourite ever Trek episode) is a lot easier to convert to Blu-Ray than either of Best of Both World or All Good Things would be due to the relative lack of special effects shots which would need shooting or more likely replacing with CGI. It doesn't surprise me that they'd test the water with something like that. Even Farpoint doesn't have a huge number of effects shots because it was the pilot and they didn't have the budget for them.

I don't think DS9 will ever get an HD remastering unless the TNG trial and hopeful full series sells very strongly simply because of the costs involved.

Should we move some posts over from the Star Wars thread? If not:


Don't forget Worf shifting through alternate realities with his fucking bowling trophy...

I'm pretty sure that was in the final season...

I really liked that episode. The wacky episodes like Masks and the de-evolving episode were too much though. That one where Data has weird dreams is an odd one too. As is the one where the Enterprise becomes a sentient being. I'm not sure what the writers were drinking and smoking when they were writing that year.

That season also had my least favourite episode, Sub Rosa, about Beverley's female descendants all falling in lonve with an alien ghost or something else very dull.


Or that no one noticed that Seven's parents went out to hunt Borg a decade before anyone knew about them.


I think that there was an acknowledgment that the timeline had been altered due to the events of First Contact which triggered the Borg encountering the Federation many years before TNG had claimed.

[Aussie_Outlaw]

That season also had my least favourite episode, Sub Rosa, about Beverley's female descendants all falling in lonve with an alien ghost or something else very dull.



Are we forgetting the clip show 'Shades of Gray' ;)

I guess it doesn't really count.


I think that there was an acknowledgment that the timeline had been altered due to the events of First Contact which triggered the Borg encountering the Federation many years before TNG had claimed.

I'm also one of the people who buys into this. First Contact's timeline alteration also then cleans up the reason why Enterprise is so fancy compared to The Original Series.


The timeline of the borg still slightly works even without the altered timeline if we split hairs with hearing rumours about the Borg and actually meeting the borg. If the nerds heard about a species and went looking (as they do) without knowing anything.

Especially if we remember we heard of the Borg in the TOS part of Generations. We know "of" them but don't know anything about them.

[Beefy]

Good point about Generations and the El-Aurians. Either way, by the time Enterprise had aired, the whole Trek timeline was all over the shop.

[lotjx]

So, are they still saying that V'Ger was the reason the Borg were created it or is that still a mystery? Enterprise could have been great if someone actually read the history of Trek first. They could have done a lot with the Federation giving the Klingons weapons only to turn it around on them. The Klingons did not need to be in the first episode nor did they need that Temporal Cold War shit. They should have stuck with the Vulcan/Andorian stuff which was very interesting.

DS9 being on Blu Ray remastered would probably get me to buy a player. Yet, I know Babylon 5 has already been told its a no go for them and I think they had half the effects DS9 had per episode. I can't see Voyager going Blu Ray for awhile.

[Aussie_Outlaw]

I don' think anyone has said that about the origin of the Borg. Vger is pretty much completely ignored by all modern series so at this state it's left as an open mystery.

In Treklit continuity: (Destiny Trilogy of Novels) - The current treklit is all pretty much one consistent universe of a few hundred books)
The Borg were created by the NX02 (Enterprise Era Ship) when thrown back in time with an empathic alien gestalt race thus forcing forming a crude link which eventually matured into the current borg.

And I have too many Star Trek books on my shelves. Only real one missing which I can't be bothered getting is the Voyager Companion.

[Beefy]

DS9 being on Blu Ray remastered would probably get me to buy a player. Yet, I know Babylon 5 has already been told its a no go for them and I think they had half the effects DS9 had per episode. I can't see Voyager going Blu Ray for awhile.

Voyager is in the same boat as TNG and DS9. It's shot on film and then the effects transposed onto that film. The original film which the individual elements were shot on was very expensive so was reused by the studio pretty much straight away as they never thought they'd need them again.

The effects aren't compatible with high definition and can't just be upscalled to 1080 so would need to be digitally removed and then put back in. Plus a lot of the ship models have been lost of broken so they either need to be rebuilt or completely replaced with CGI. The whole thing costs a lot of money which is why the TOS Blu-Rays are so expensive. I don't see them selling enough copies of DS9 and Voyager to make it viable.

The one slight chance is that they decide that the syndication rights of the HD versions of the show would make it worth their while as it surely won't be too long before syndication money for the standard def shows dries up completely.

[Aussie_Outlaw]

DS9 being on Blu Ray remastered would probably get me to buy a player. Yet, I know Babylon 5 has already been told its a no go for them and I think they had half the effects DS9 had per episode. I can't see Voyager going Blu Ray for awhile.

B5 and DS9 did their effects differently. B5 was Computer Effects from Day 1 while DS9 was models for the early days and eventually ended up with Computer Modelling.

B5 looks horrible on DVD due to the way the video was stored. You can easily see the difference in quality between a normal shot and a shot with CGI in it. And they lost the computer models so they'd all have to be done from scratch:

wiki:

The transfer of Babylon 5 from fullscreen to widescreen (originally for the Sci Fi Channel; later released on DVD) created significant problems with regard to special-effects/CGI footage. Several factors complicated the process.


Although originally broadcast in the standard television aspect ratio of 4:3, all live-action footage was filmed on Super 35 mm film (with a ratio of 1.65:1). The idea was that, once widescreen televisions (with an aspect ratio of 16:9 or 1.78:1) became more popular, the episodes could be easily converted into a widescreen format.
CGI shots were rendered in the 4:3 ratio, but designed so that the top and bottom of each shot could be removed to create a widescreen image without ruining the image composition. For the widescreen DVD releases technical problems occurred during the progressive scan transfer and re-formatting, introducing artifacts that resulted in a picture quality of the CGI shots now inferior to the few laserdisc and other 4:3 home video releases.
While the camera negatives of the original live-action shots held the potential for high-definition digital images, the CGI shots and shots combining live-action with CGI, were stored in the much lower-definition NTSC digital format. (Again, the expectation was that it would be relatively cheap in the future to recreate the CGI in widescreen.)
Over the years, the original computer-generated models, and so on, have been lost, making it necessary to use the old 4:3 CGI shots. Both Foundation Imaging and its successor, Netter Digital, have gone out of business.


This has resulted in several consistent flaws throughout the Babylon 5 widescreen release. In particular, quality drops significantly whenever a scene cuts from purely live-action to a shot combining live-action and CGI. This is particularly noticeable on the PAL DVDs, since CGI shots had to be converted from NTSC, as well as being blown up to fit a widescreen television. In addition, while the live-action film was originally widescreen, shots were composed for 4:3, resulting in a conspicuous tendency for actors to clump up in the middle of the screen.

DS9 won't have the above issues, it'll be as difficult as TNG to do... but it's completely not viable due to lack of interest.

[One Man Gang]

One Man Gang's top 10 favorite Star Trek themes



10.



Star Trek Original Series by Alexander Courage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5YCACHWO4Y&feature=related



9.



Star Trek: Deep Space Nine by Dennis McCarthy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORp0T6zYByM&feature=related



8.



Star Trek: Voyager by Jerry Goldsmith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6IpjBCVYo8



7.



Star Trek: Generations by Dennis McCarthy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iKK3WKcPyo&feature=related



6.



Star Trek: The Voyage Home by Leonard Rosenman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct5-__9VTAY



5.



Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country by Cliff Eidelman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raNg1usnJx8&feature=related



4.



Star Trek: The Motion Picture by Jerry Goldsmith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AiSbxZYViE



3.



Star Trek (2009) by Michael Giacchino

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu0QO1za64E



2.



Star Trek: First Contact by Jerry Goldsmith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxX_D2kOL9o&list=LLOhyDh8sLfDnMHm11heVZRA&index=58



1.



Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan by James Horner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIhJFYZNwKs&feature=related

[Bill Casey]

I really liked that episode. The wacky episodes like Masks and the de-evolving episode were too much though.

I liked those two as well...
Especially Masks, where it ends up with Picard and Data doing a fucking theater play about the sun and the moon...

The episode about the ghost romance can suck it...

[Judas Iscariot]

Best Star Trek movie was GALAXY QUEST.

[Bill Casey]

Brent Spiner imitates Patrick Stewart

[Chris]

That season also had my least favourite episode, Sub Rosa, about Beverley's female descendants all falling in lonve with an alien ghost or something else very dull.
Season 7 was very up and down - the high points were "The Pegasus" (featuring Terry O'Quinn from Lost as Riker's old captain), "Pre-emptive Strike" (one last outing for Engisn Ro, who had been forgotten for the most part) and of course the finale. There were other decent episodes along the way, but a lot of poor or downright rubbish episodes mixed in.

I think the Blu-ray demo makes sense - "Encounter at Farpoint" will have a lot of effects, given how long they spend on the saucer separation and such. "Yesterday's Enterprise" could do with an upgrade. It's a classic episode and still one of the best battles in terms of everything exploding on the bridge (which Voyager overdid by having it occur nearly every episode), yet the space battle with the Klingons at the very end has pretty basic effects.

I think TNG peaked with Season 4 - some absolutely stellar episodes throughout. The only thing I'm worried about with the Blu-ray release is having to sit through some of the tripe in the first 2 seasons. I wouldn't wish those on anyone. It'll be a long time until we get to some tasty political intrigue with the Romulans, Worf's arc, "The Best of Both Worlds", etc.

This is still one of, if not my absolute, favourite scene in all of Star Trek.

Stealing the Enterprise - YouTube

Wrath of Khan may be the best, but Search for Spock is probably my favourite for the big "operatic" moments as Leonard Nimoy describes them. Stealing the Enterprise, the showdown with the Klingons, the destruction of the Enterprise and the fist-fight while Genesis is falling apart.

[lotjx]

Best Star Trek movie was GALAXY QUEST.

No, I hate that argument considering if there was no good Star Trek films, it would never have been made.

[Atty]

Star Trek 3 is class and I find it to be underrated/overlooked quite a bit. It also flows so nicely from Khan. Kirk losing his son to bring back his friend is crushing and Shatner not being able to get back in his chair after may be my favorite bit of acting he's done.





Movie is delayed until Dec 2012 instead of July 2012


I had heard 2013. I don't mind the delay but I hope they actually plan out what they want with this series of movies. The last one gave them a clean slate to make it more accessible to the general audience, but they probably should sort out how many films they'll get from this. I hate to say a trilogy as they feel cliche at this point, but that's about all they can keep the full cast together for, I'd suspect.

I figure the next movie will be Khan and, while I'm okay with that provided they do something different with him, they should map out what's to come. I'm a Gorn mark, but I doubt there is enough awesome in the universe to give me a Gorn movie. The Gorn would also be nice as, other than them being giant reptiles, there isn't much of anything about them in Trek and they could do whatever they want. Honestly, I wouldn't mind them raping TOS continuity (more so) and doing something with the Borg, provided they have a story and maybe a different take on the Borg.

If they insist on doing Khan, I'll say what I've said elsewhere, have the basic change from Space Seed being someone else finding the Botany Bay. Like have the Klingons find it and take Khan and company to that prison camp that was cut from the last movie. Have Khan tortured (JJ said he'd like to explore torture in the next film) and have Kirk literally sent into the Kobiashi Maru scenario, going into Klingon space to rescue a stranded Earth ship, only to have Khan take over the Enterprise and maroon Kirk and the main cast on the prison planet. Marooned for all eternity... ...Buried alive...

They had a great looking Gorn in a cut scene in the prison, so have Kirk fight him there as a way to suck off TOS a bit more, have Kirk take over an old TOS-style D7 Klingon cruiser and have to follow Khan to Earth to stop whatever thing he's going to do to destroy the planet or whatever. Kirk vs the Enterprise.

JJ's Gorn:
http://www.klingon-empire.org/photopost/data/500/medium/Barney_Burman_s_Gorn.jpg





A nutter is considering a pitch for a new series


Ugh. I'd like a new series, don't get me wrong here, but it's just going to make the continuity convoluted all over again. A new crew, probably in the same era, just complicates things. And if it's in a different era, it'll confuse the movie audience even more. If they do a new show, I'd rather it come after this series of movies is either done or has a couple more under it's belt.





They're doing a few TNG episodes on Blu-Ray (which could lead to an eventual series)


The TNG on Blu-Ray is the current news. Which is annoying since TNG is a horrible and bland series and the episodes they're talking about including are Farpoint, Sins of The Father & Inner Light. Not exactly episodes which need a retouching.

They've got 1, the pilot which is incredibly dated but still the best episode included which could do with a remaster, Sins of the Father (klingons ugh) & Inner Light (more of a simple dramatic piece, good episode but not exactly needing a touch-up).

Why not just go with Best of Both World & All Good Things? I guess it's an idea to pick simple episodes and see if there's a market to do the blockbuster episodes.

DS9 needs a remaster, the set had so much detail and could look fantastic, but the ship on TNG will just look empty and bland and boring.

The Inner Light is one of their best episodes ever and is one that's immediately accessible to non-Trekkies/ers, but it doesn't strike me as one that I'd want on blu-ray if they're only doing select episodes.

Best of Both Worlds would be a tremendous choice but, really, that would require so much editing to not look like piss that it would make Lucas blush. If they were to redo effects and upgrade a select few episodes, something like Q Who, Best of Both Worlds, All Good Things, Yesterday's Enterprise and some others could be great choices that could look all flashy but I don't see how it'd be worth the cost to go through and redo them. With TOS, redoing effects worked great in that none of them took a whole lot to redo and look in line with the rest of the show.

Farpoint wouldn't be worth the cost of the blu-ray disc. Not to bash it here, but no one knew their characters yet and it always plays as a bit off to me (like most of the first season.)





Great thread. The Mike and I will make good use of it.

[lotjx]

There was a poll going around, I don't know if it was legit or not, but it asked which of these characters would you like to see in the new film? It was Harry Mudd, the Horta, the Talosians and I think the Gorn or someone else. I think it was just a little cameo though not a huge part.

[Atty]

I'd dig them doing the Talosians. In the alternate timeline, Pike never went to Talos IV and it could be interesting to see the original pilot totally re-imagined with Kirk doing things differently.

Not sure who'd want Harry Mudd.

[lotjx]

Jack Black. He is the one who was rumored to play him. If you get Mudd, you get the women, who were hot for the 1960s.

[The Rogerer]

Stealing the Enterprise - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n17nATi3EqI)

Wrath of Khan may be the best, but Search for Spock is probably my favourite for the big "operatic" moments as Leonard Nimoy describes them. Stealing the Enterprise, the showdown with the Klingons, the destruction of the Enterprise and the fist-fight while Genesis is falling apart.I watched Search for Spock loads in my teens. I remember liking that scene a lot, even though it's possibly the dullest escape going. I'd like to watch it again, it's nearly been 15 years. Was this the one, or was it Wrath of Khan, where they inputted numbers by flicking switches? Amazing.

Also look at that hair. It forced me to look and I found, http://shatnerstoupee.blogspot.com/ and I've been captivated by this for the last hour. I think I was a bit aspergers when I was younger as I had no problem with his hair.

[Beefy]

The numbers was Wrath of Khan.

I'm sharing the love for Search for Spock, and especially for that whole part of the film between the crew returning home and Kirk stealing the Enterprise. It was all about the characters, their relationships with eachother and how high they'd allow the stakes to go for them in order to save their friends. At its heart it's a much more engaging idea than basing a film around attempting to save a planet full of people who we, and the crew for that matter, know next to nothing about and have no emotional investment in.

[lotjx]

That is the major hit on the TNG crew films is minus a few scenes here and there, you don't see the chemistry the TOS had. Generations was more about Picard/Kirk than getting to know the crew. As bad as the original motion picture was, you were re-introduced to the main characters again. Generations was here is the TOS crew for fifteen minutes and why they work so well and here is an hour of the TNG crew not doing much then the last half hour is all about Kirk passing the torch to Picard. TNG really needed to have a film that gave you the outlines of who every one was and their relationships. All Good Things really should have been their first movie, but they needed something big to end the series with and it worked.

First Contact works, because you have the crew acting a bit foolish around Cochran while Picard deals with his hate for the Borg and Data is being tempted by flesh. You got to know the characters better by showcasing their abilities, their goals and their teamwork. I disagree with First Contact is just an adventure movie. The movie is dealing with the morality of revenge, seduction and the phrase never meet your heroes. There is a lot of Roddenberry underneath the layer of action sequences and space battles. Which is what made Star Trek great.

Insurrection just started off on the wrong foot with Data going insane. It really needed to be a giant mystery on why the Federation wanted this planet instead of outright saying, its makes you immortal. There was no need to bring in another alien race. Just have some Federation vs. Federation battles or just plain skip it and tell a story of the Enterprise during the Dominion War. As much as I loved DS9 doing that, it made no sense never to show the Enterprise or her crew in something as huge as a three year war with a vastly superior enemy.

[BIGFEETS]

I will always have much love for TNG.

If anything, this thread makes me want to go back and watch the series and oddly enough, the TNG movies.

Personally, I wish there would had been another TNG movie to end the series on a high note.

[McBain]

Am out in Thailand at the moment and among other highlights it's given me chance to watch a few classic episodes of TNG. Man, what a great show. Practically shaped my morals as a nipper I reckon with it's ALLEGORICAL take on global diplomacy. :cool:

So there might be a new series being written eh? Any rumours on that? I was hoping there might be something in the offing since Enterprise was so cack, there's sure to be something else (in the FUTURE) they can come up with.

[lotjx]

There are rumors after Star Trek 2, we are going to get a new series maybe with that crew or another crew set in that time.

[The_Mike]

I would be happy to see a new series, but only if the writers can keep it in their pants, so to speak. Pretty much the first thing Enterprise did was strip the crew to their underwear and have soft porn gel rubbing scenes all over the place, and the next thing it did was have its own 9/11. A little subtlety, please, guys. DS9 had tons of action, humour, fun, sexual tension and thoughtful, message-delivering episodes without looking like it was produced by Spike TV.

[Atty]

A new series is so tricky as the main goal of the JJ film was to make something that was accessible to a general audience. That meant wiping every episode from it's timeline. If they jump in too quick, it could throw off some people that would only go see a movie anyway.


A new series, however, is probably inevitable and, when it comes, I hope it follows a BSG or Dexter schedule where each season has fewer episodes. Decide what they want to do and not have filler episodes.

A new era to work in can be tricky with the original timeline raped, but there are a few ideas for shows I've had for awhile. The main would be the "reverse Voyager." Basically, some science ship is sent on a mission to the other side of the galaxy for study, basically knowing they'll never see home again. Maybe have the crew in hibernation and do Lost flashbacks for characters as they wake up in the first episode to establish everyone. Each season could be them exploring some slightly different big thing and what happens around it without a fucking reset button.

[Aussie_Outlaw]

The 'stuck with no hope of return' stuff is done to death. Recently we've had Voyager, Battlestar, SGU and now we've got Terra Nova. Isn't that plot idea pretty much done to death.

I'd rather a science/security type situation. If we set it around the work done on the Genesis Device we've got a weapon we know, we can have the klingons or someone try to steal it. There's an excuse to bring Pine in as Kirk to cameo and it's a slightly untold part of Trek-history.

Make them lose the device, or make it discovered that to get the technology we actually discovered it from an unheard alien plant race who use it to colonise/invade planets.

[Atty]

Voyager was never a no hope of return deal. Every episode they were heading home no matter what happened the week before. In truth, Voyager is perhaps my favorite basis for a series that they've done, but they followed through on so little that wore me down. Part of that problem for me is that the studio apparently didn't want to commit to potentially depressing premise and that's why they always kept the second caretaker unresolved, so if the studio demanded a shake up they could bring the ship back on a moments notice and go back to a more traditional TNG-like series.

With it being on Netflix, I went back to it a few months back and wound up both enjoying it more and less than I expected or remembered. At the very start it's established that this is Janeway's first real command. I hadn't recalled that being a plot point and it's something that's dropped right away, but that would have been interesting to explore. Kirk and Picard, in very different ways, had been presented as the perfect captains. Having a rookie, who makes a questionable decision that strands not only her crew but another crew on the other side of the galaxy at the start, would have been a interesting dynamic to explore. Show how it wears on her and her own uncertainty. Instead they fell pretty much right back to to "the captain is always right" with very sporadic and disjointed episodes that mention people not agreeing with her long after that had been abandoned as a plot point.



I don't mean "no hope of returning home" in the way that BSG or even voyager was. I mean like a crew who's mission was to explore far beyond any established territory and their mission entailed them knowing they may never see their homes again. There's this one DS9 episode (the title escapes me right now) where they come in contact with the single survivor of a science mission to the beta quadrant and are talking to her about their lives while they try to find her. Something like that as the basis. The ship is sent to some remote area where they can't just pop back to Earth on an episode's notice or really get supplies or reinforcements.

[Aussie_Outlaw]

DS9 episode: Sound of her voice? It's in the back half of Season 6.


I like Voyager, it's nice, it's just annoying that it reboots so often and so many later stores seem to revolve around Seven, Janeway & The Doctor. Then it gets tiresome. Much like how Stargate Atlantis is fun.

[Bill Casey]

Data Does Not Understand Poetry

[Aussie_Outlaw]

To go slightly off on a tangent.

Currently I'm slowly going through The show 'The 4400' and it's run by pretty much most of the DS9 production crew/writers. Wolfe, Behr & Echevarria all write/produce episodes. Not a bad series, and it's always wonderful to see Jeffrey Coombes appearing regularly in a series.


Though I guess pretty much all SciFi series in the 2000's have a link to Star Trek in one way or another. Still was a bit stunning to see 3 of the major DS9 guys all writing for the one show.

[monkeywrench]

Having all Star Trek on Netflix streaming might just be one of the best things ever, especially now that the best one ever, DS9 has finally been brought on board.

[The_Mike]

Voyager's premise really intrigued me as well, but the core plot seemed to go out the window pretty quickly. Quite odd that it became notorious for the reset button given its nature lended itself to that the least, and I think it's a shame it was very episodic and never seemed to build over the course of seasons. I don't even remember many real arcs. There was the Doctor's constant drive to be recognised as a sentient life form and to feel sort of human, and... Seska being a bitch?

Though I had a discussion about this with a friend who was a huge B5 fan, and he remembers Voyager as being very stringent on keeping tabs on the supplies, crew morale, and general grind of trying to return home. He swears blind the show was a lot more consistent than I or anyone else I know remembers. We both agreed the ending sucked, though. Pure deus ex machina, and for a story that was all about how it would take 70 years to get home, to do it in 7 without really severe consequences seems kind of cheap. And once the ship shows up, the show ends, leaving us without any fallout or real sense of accomplishment. I haven't seen either in ages, but I think I probably enjoyed the Enterprise finale more.

[Atty]

Voyager's premise really intrigued me as well, but the core plot seemed to go out the window pretty quickly. Quite odd that it became notorious for the reset button given its nature lended itself to that the least, and I think it's a shame it was very episodic and never seemed to build over the course of seasons. I don't even remember many real arcs. There was the Doctor's constant drive to be recognised as a sentient life form and to feel sort of human, and... Seska being a bitch?

Though I had a discussion about this with a friend who was a huge B5 fan, and he remembers Voyager as being very stringent on keeping tabs on the supplies, crew morale, and general grind of trying to return home. He swears blind the show was a lot more consistent than I or anyone else I know remembers. We both agreed the ending sucked, though. Pure deus ex machina, and for a story that was all about how it would take 70 years to get home, to do it in 7 without really severe consequences seems kind of cheap. And once the ship shows up, the show ends, leaving us without any fallout or real sense of accomplishment. I haven't seen either in ages, but I think I probably enjoyed the Enterprise finale more.

Yeah.

When it was first on my friends and I were in grade school and watched it each week. There was some count one of us came across of how many torpedoes the ship was supposed to have. We kept count as it aired, expecting some big moment when they ran out, only for them to have an unlimited supply. That was probably my first realization of tv using and abusing the reset button.

You mentioned Seska. She's one of the missed opportunities of the show. You have this new Captain, integrating two crews and stranding them on the opposite side of the galaxy. Someone had to take exception and the second she got interesting and objected to Janeway, she was off the ship. Her having the ear (with benefits) of the first officer, only in his position as a token of the second crew, could have led to interesting stroylines. Not her with the Kazon, but her as a long term character, a manipulative woman who causes some massive event, could have been a strong arc.

Watching the last season now, and this is a purely Lostian bit on my part, I think the first shot of the final season should have been a crippled Voyager in space. Everyone's there (despite where their characters were the the previous cliffhanger) and the ship is flying apart. They eject the warp core and it blows. The viewscreen blows up and some red shirt is blown into space. A deflector goes up in it place, with debris scattering it so you can't see through. A bloody Janeway looks up and it clears to show that they're orbiting Earth. Then, after the intro credits, they do "previously on Voyager" and don't touch that first bit for a couple episodes.

As they go they can show stuff from after they get home. Seven integrating to life on Earth would have been tremendous. Same with the Doctor and Neelix. It felt really random to yank Neelix off the crew just before the end, as he had gone along in part to see Earth. I hated the future Janeway in the finale. Was really poor writing. Felt rushed and, if they wanted to rush it, the other caretaker was still out there.

[Aussie_Outlaw]

Though I had a discussion about this with a friend who was a huge B5 fan, and he remembers Voyager as being very stringent on keeping tabs on the supplies, crew morale, and general grind of trying to return home. He swears blind the show was a lot more consistent than I or anyone else I know remembers.

I think it's wishful thinking to think they kept track on everything. Sure they may have, but there's a few websites which track the inconsistencies.

http://www.strw.leidenuniv.nl/~jansen/st/voyager/photoncount.html
(Quick Note: 38 torpedos and no way of replenishing them at the start, 17 used by Season 4, though they then state they have 32)

And some crazy people have actually attempted to put together the full crew list: http://lynx677.110mb.com/crew_manifest.html

[monkeywrench]

I never quite understood the rampant need for exploring they seemed to have. Every bit of exploration they undertook both wasted time they could have spent trying to get home and usually resulted in near disaster for the crew. You would think at some point, a large number of them would band together and say "Screw this, Janeway. If you're going to get us home, you're going to keep us at Warp in the direction of Earth 24/7 unless we need supplies."

[Atty]

That bugged me too. Another thing that bugged me was the Kazon being around for the first couple seasons. They established that they were technological novices and seemed to travel at low warp. If Voyager, established as the fastest Federation ship at the start, was actually heading away from their territory, they'd have been away from all of them fairly quickly. It's a nitpick, but it always bugged me.

Despite my hate for a lot of it, I did like Voyager. It was something nice and fluffy and you could always turn it on and get something nice.

[lotjx]

I hate Voyager, probably more than Enterprise. Enterprise was fucked day one when the Klingons showed up instead of leading to the problems with them that created the Prime Directive. Voyager had potential and seem to say fuck it all. The first season was pretty good, but it got worse and worse. There was a hundred different avenues they could have taken and they didn't. Amazingly DS9, the space station show took more risk than the ship that was lost in space.

I think I realized the major problem with Voyager when they did another holodeck gone awry about What if the Maqui decided to mutiny? It was a good episode, but it should have been a season or two. I don't know if they were tongue in cheek with the episode or blatantly stupid not to realize this should have happened. The worst crime was neutering the Borg. One ship should not be able to beat them even the first time they meet them. The fact they fucked the Borg so bad that they allowed future Janeway to come back and fight the Borg with the weapons that saved the Federation only to have the Borg assimilate the weapons within the first few minutes of the battle was fucking retarded. Kim should have blasted Janeway to hell or just have the show go out with Janeway dying to save her crew using something other than a gigantic plot hole or just make their own bad guys without stealing from TNG. The worst Trek ever.

[Atty]

Season four of Enterpise is quite possibly my favorite Trek season ever. Well, aside from the shit finale.

Season 3 and 4 were actually fairly great, but no one was still watching by then.

[Atty]

I mean any season where the following happens is obviously brilliant...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Keu3eKg_qQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Beefy]

I watched that two-parter recently as it was on TV. I hadn't seen it before. Very good.

[Atty]

I had long stopped watching and stopped on that episode thinking it was the end of Forst Contact while scanning the channels. Almost immediately bought the season four DVDs.

[Aussie_Outlaw]

Season 4 of Enterprise was the last Season I got around to watching from any Trek. It really is a fantastic season with so many little references to all the old eras (and The Big Show appears).

And in such a wonderful future where we can have robots like Data, why can't they get the holodecks to work for a full episode? In about 14 years they had at least 100 incidents from 3 venues. It's a huge widespread problem.

[The_Mike]

Oddly Voyager sort of offers a reason for why the holodecks turned out to be such a huge problem. Given how radically the EMH exceeded his programming, he seemed to demonstrate that these holograms are capable of a lot more than was anticipated. Perhaps that's why things seem to often go awry. If I recall correctly, the first holodeck problem was Moriarty becoming self-aware, so clearly this was an issue that could occur even without the extensive programming advancements that came with the Doctor.

[Aussie_Outlaw]

First issue was Sulu and his team being trapped during during The Animated Series. (Practical Joker)

The first issue on TNG is 'Big Goodbye' which is only halfway through the first season. Picard plays as Dixon Hill and it turns into a mess. Why let them de-activate safeties anyway? Dumb.

Almost as bad as letting Troi fly the ship, managed to destroy both of Picard's Enterprises, I'm sure he's glad Troi is now on the USS:Titan.

[McBain]

She can have a go on my USS:Titan any day of the week.

[Atty]

Riker let's her pilot his little Titan

[Bill Casey]

And in such a wonderful future where we can have robots like Data, why can't they get the holodecks to work for a full episode?

Data wasn't made by Starfleet...
Also, Data malfunctions a lot as well...


- The Naked Now, where Data becomes drunk
- The Schizoid Man, where Data's mind becomes cohabited by Ira Graves
- Contagion, where Data gets the same virus as the ship
- Brothers, where Data is overrided by Soong
- Power Play, where Data is posessed by an electromagnetic spirit
- A Fistful of Datas, where Data takes over the holodeck
- Descent, where Data gets overwhelmed by negative emotions
- Thine Own Self, where Data loses all of his memories and ends up exposing aliens to radioactivity
- Masks, where Data becomes MUSAKA!!!
- Insurrection, where Data suffered damage to his memory engrams

[Chris]

If Voyager, established as the fastest Federation ship at the start, was actually heading away from their territory, they'd have been away from all of them fairly quickly. It's a nitpick, but it always bugged me.
It was the same in Season 7 - somehow they just happened to run into the Hirogen again. Yes, they're a nomadic species who are spread out across the quadrant. But these Hirogen had the holodeck technology given to the Hirogen that took over Voyager in "The Killing Game" in Season 4. So despite Voyager's leaps towards home during that time (the transwarp coil from "Dark Frontier", travelling in the quantum slipstream for a bit in both "Hope and Fear" and "Timeless", etc), there was still a Hirogen ship in front of Voyager which had magically obtained the technology from a group of Hirogen tens of thousands of light years away.

Voyager is watchable. I can come down in the morning at 7am and happily watch an episode. It produced some classic episodes of Trek in its 7 years - "Scorpion", "Timeless", "State of Flux", to name but a few. I loved the progression of the Doctor's character, and the relationship between Paris and Torres worked well even if it emerged from left field. The show also produced the image of The Rock delivering the Rock Bottom to Seven of Nine. I've toyed with the idea of buying the boxsets, but that's where I think it would get very frustrating - the constant teases of going in a new direction only to revert to the status quo, the big plots that amounted to nothing (seemingly no real fall-out from the Borg civil war, the Equinox crew members never being seen again), the sheer lack of character development and focus for some characters, the implausibility of the ship being fine every week despite getting hammered by some alien ships in the previous week, the fact that Seven of Nine never seemed to actually learn any of the lessons taught to her in the many episodes devoted to her, etc.

Voyager was the show where they should have thrown away the Federation rule book. DS9 was already maintaining a good balance between traditional Starfleet values and the challenging contexts of war, political intrigue and other grey areas. Janeway looked like an utter fool at times, clinging to her Federation principles in situations where the entire crew and the ship could have been lost. There's a terrific episode in Season 2 called "Alliances", where Janeway tries to make peace between the Kazons and the Trabe. It's one of my favourite episodes of the show because they come to the realisation that the prime directive may no longer be applicable - the ship is always under attack by the Kazon, the Maquis crew members are speaking out about the loss of life and even Tuvok is encouraging Janeway to try a new approach. When it all goes pear-shaped in the end, Janeway says how the principles of the Federation are more important than ever. It undermines the previous 40 minutes by showing that Janeway hasn't learnt anything - that Voyager should continue as a lone wolf, easily picked off by its enemies. It felt like the writers had Janeway mistakenly side with a madman so as to get out of going in a more bold direction.

[Beefy]

On the bright side, had Voyager not gone down the route that it did we may never have got the new Battlestar Galactica.

[lotjx]

Voyager reminds me a lot of the WWE, right now with Vince being Janeway. I don't know if I would call Battlestar coming out of the death throws of Trek a good thing or not. I am not a fan of all the series, but I did enjoy the New Caprica Arc. The one sci-fi show that I am loving right now is Warehouse 13. It reminds me of a cross of classic Trek/DS9. A lot of tongue in cheek characters like Kirk/Spock/McCoy were with some nice layered DS9 storylines. Their finale a few weeks ago was up there with Best of Both Worlds for Best finale ever.

[Chris]

Battlestar Galactica is one of the best TV shows of the last decade. For Trek to make a TV comeback, it needs to make the same kind of leap that BSG took from the 1980s original. If they can somehow make a show with a ship exploring space, and not rely on the same cliches that have been done to death since TNG then more power to them. But I get the sense that they'd have to go in a fresh direction. I really loved the new film - the best thing about it was that it was fun. Just a good old adventure romp, with a nice balance between action, drama, comedy and plenty of nods to the franchise for die-hard fans. Aspects of the plot don't hold up with repeat viewings, but I look forward to seeing where they go next.

[Aussie_Outlaw]

The one sci-fi show that I am loving right now is Warehouse 13. It reminds me of a cross of classic Trek/DS9. A lot of tongue in cheek characters like Kirk/Spock/McCoy were with some nice layered DS9 storylines. Their finale a few weeks ago was up there with Best of Both Worlds for Best finale ever.

So if you love Warehouse, do you also love Eureka as the tone of both shows is pretty much the same. They're both easy-to-watch fluffy scifi shows.

[lotjx]

I don't watch Eureka, I tried an episode or two in the beginning and never took. I liked Warehouse, because it has a lot of the same fun that Classic Trek seem to have. Now having said that, this season went to darksville and back. It is nice to have a sci-fi show that has some fun to into instead of going down the dark gritty path now and again. Even though Roddenberry put a lot of social commentary into Trek, he did give you the sense of fun and adventure that is sorely missing on TV and in the movies of late. Tired of everything being Dark Knight.

[Aussie_Outlaw]

If you want a recommendation on fun/light shows: Watch USA's dramas. They're all cut from the same cloth as Warehouse / Eureka. All easy to watch shows with a mystery/crime of the week and a long running arc.

Shows like Psych (psychic detective), Burn Notice (spy), White Collar (forgery crime), Royal Pains (doctor to the rich), Suits are all fun adventure shows. They're not science fiction, but they are still fun.

[lotjx]

I fucking love Psych. The Twin Peaks episode was Emmy worthy.

[Chris]

May 2013 for the next Star Trek film, which will be shot in 3D.


Now that Paramount has finally turned the electricity up high enough on the electrodes attached to JJ Abrams’ sensitive parts and made him commit to directing the Star Trek sequel, the pieces are slowly beginning to fall into place. The movie might not have a title yet, but it has a schedule, with the studio targeting a May 17, 2013 release date with its torpedoes.

Deadline reports that the executives took swift action after Sony shoved Roland Emmerich’s Singularity off that date, zeroing in on the time slot and stuffing Kirk, Spock, Sulu and co into place.We assume and hope it'll be day-and-date over here, given that's what happened with the first one.

Now, of course, it’s up to Abrams to make the thing, working from the script he’s been overseeing as it's written by Alex Kurtzman, Roberto Orci and Damon Lindelof (who tweeted the news with “You have boldly waited this long... We shall do our very best to make it worth that wait.”)

The big news on the Trek front is that Abrams will be making it his first stab at 3D filmmaking, which means the Enterprise will be warping RIGHT INTO YOUR FACE. Okay, hopefully not: Abrams knows what he’s doing. But we are little concerned about 3D lens flare burning our retinas out.

In related news, there’s still no official word on Benicio Del Toro signing on as a villain (Abrams will only cagily say that they’re still in discussions) but one person who will really, truly be contributing is composer Michael Giacchino. Yeah, try to look surprised. But definitely look pleased.
I think they've dithered far too long in getting this film on track. It'll be interesting to see how Abrams uses 3D. What I liked about the 2009 film was the vivid colours, and I'm worried that it'll look just like most films released in 3D nowadays - slightly dark.

Also, there's a bunch of comparison shots from Trekcore for the imminent Blu-ray disc of TNG. I've put two pictures in spoiler tags as they're a bit big. The Enterprise looks great, and I'm sure it'll look even better in the final product.

http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/openingcredits/season1/season1_068.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/images/tnghd-ent1.jpg

13 seconds of the original film footage for "Sins of the Father" has gone missing, meaning that the scene will be upscaled from SD. Hopefully other episodes in the future don't suffer from the same problem.

[Bill Casey]

I anxiously await all of the added scenes with CGI Snerkel...


http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7639/snerkel.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/85/snerkel.jpg/)

http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chicken/snerkel-snerkel.html

[Jimmy Zero]

I'm not at all happy that this will be shot in 3D. 3D sucks.

[Atty]

Far too long between movies. With the interest and mainstream acceptance that the alternate timeline reboot got, they should have jumped on a sequel immediately. I can envision a lot of the interest from non-trekkers waning a good deal by the time it comes out.

Del Toro in discussions about playing the villain means Khan, right?

[lotjx]

Rumor is Gorn leader. We have done Khan, you can't really ever do that again.

[Cewsh]

Why not?

[Chris]

Far too long between movies. With the interest and mainstream acceptance that the alternate timeline reboot got, they should have jumped on a sequel immediately. I can envision a lot of the interest from non-trekkers waning a good deal by the time it comes out.

Del Toro in discussions about playing the villain means Khan, right?
One of the reporters on AICN is hoping he would be the leader of the Gorn...

I think Abrams has been part of the problem, in trying to get him locked in to doing the film. I wouldn't have wanted a rushed sequel like Revenge of the Fallen, but 2013 takes the biscuit.

[Bill Casey]

George Takei is the Broker of Star Peace

[Chris]

Another villain has been cast. It's only Sherlock Holmes himself, Benedict Cumberbatch!


The sneaky British infiltration of JJ Abrams’ revival of Star Trek’s cinematic fortunes continues apace! With Simon Pegg already entrenched as Scotty in the first film (Pegg just jetted to LA to begin work on the sequel), the next addition was Alice Eve, who signed on late last year. Now two of the UK’s brightest filmmaking talents are heading into space, with Benedict Cumberbatch and Noel Clarke announced as leaping aboard.

This being the Abrams/Damon Lindelof/Roberto Orci/Alex Kurtzman Trek universe, both actors' exact roles are being kept a secret for now. Variety was able to dig up, however, that Clarke is playing a family man with a wife and young daughter and The Hollywood Reporter has it that Cumberbatch will slip into the role of the villain that Benicio Del Toro was being courted for.

Cumberbatch has been pinging Hollywood's radar something rotten recently, between his superb work on the BBC's Sherlock and supporting roles in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy and War Horse. He's already been snapped up for one evil role, agreeing to voice greedy dragon Smaug for Peter Jackson's Hobbit films.

Meanwhile, along with his directing/writing/acting duties in the likes of Adulthood and 4.3.2.1, Noel Clarke already has space (and time) travel experience thanks to his time spent as Mickey Smith in Doctor Who’s TARDIS. This time, we doubt he’ll be worried about being seen as the tin dog.

They are the newest additions to the cast, which already boasts Peter Weller as a villain and the returning regular crew complement, including Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto, Karl Urban, John Cho, Anton Yelchin, Zoe Saldana and Pegg.

Currently known only as Star Trek 2, the film starts shooting shortly and will be out in the US on May 17, 2013.
:hyper: The cast is shaping up nicely, and I'm glad to see Benedict making headway in feature films.

[Atty]

I wish they'd just say who the villain is. If its Khan, fanboys will freak out either way and it will give them time to get used to it. It it's a super awesome Gorn in a completely original story, none of us will really know anymore beyond that. And I can start marking for it.


Hell, just call it The Return Of The Gorn. :shifty:

[lotjx]

I think if you are going to do Khan make it the Space Seed version instead of Wrath of Khan. It would be a nice change of pace, I also think it should be done as a teaser for the third film. Do the Gorn or Klingons now. I love the casting of Benedict, I hope they give him a meaty role.

[Mik]

Cumberbatch is excellent, so good news.

[Chris]

Teaser poster for the new film:

http://www.empireonline.com/images/image_index/hw800/66442.jpg

There's going to be footage in front of The Hobbit next week. They released a plot synopsis recently which I'll stick in spoiler tags in case anyone is avoiding plot details for now (though the synopsis is pretty basic and doesn't mention any specific character names).


“When the crew of the Enterprise is called back home, they find an unstoppable force of terror from within their own organization has detonated the fleet and everything it stands for, leaving our world in a state of crisis.

“With a personal score to settle, Captain Kirk leads a manhunt to a war-zone world to capture a one man weapon of mass destruction. As our heroes are propelled into an epic chess game of life and death, love will be challenged, friendships will be torn apart, and sacrifices must be made for the only family Kirk has left: his crew.”
I'm really looking forward to seeing Cumberbatch in this.

[lotjx]

The rumor is Cumberbatch is playing Gary Mitchell who first appeared in Kirk's first episode. I am glad its not Khan, because no one could live up to that. On the flip side, I am kinda bored with all the action taking place on Earth. The great part of Star Trek was the Enterprise never being anywhere close to him and when they did come back, it was to deal with something huge like the Borg. I am also not a fan of Starfleet getting destroyed again. You would think the Klingons and Romulans would just swoop in at this point, but thats fanboy nit picking.

Worst Dark Knight Rising poster ever.

[VHS]

I agree about the poster, lotjx. While it won't reflect the quality of the film, it does scream blatant DK origins.

[lotjx]

http://www.startrek.com/article/first-look-star-trek-into-darkness-trailer

Trailer is up.

[virms]

Looks fairly good. Can't believe they are showing a 9 minute trailer in front of the Hobbit though.

[Guy]

They're showing nine minutes of the actual film are they not? Like the opening scene.

It's fucking stupid.

[MikeHunt]

They did it with TDKR and TDK to my knowledge at the IMAX. Why do you think it's stupid?

[Guy]

What if you want to watch Hobbit at the IMAX and not see half of Star Trek?

A film is a self contained entity, advertising it is one thing, but to show entire scenes out of context, or the whole opening of a movie....it just dampens that experience of viewing it as a whole for the first time.

It's the same with all of the clips they put online from movies now along with umpteen trailers. But at least those clips can be ignored.

[Chris]

The trailer looks good. The final scene of the Japanese version is interesting, since it clearly echoes one of the previous films. It's a deliberate tease, at least.

It looks like Starfleet is getting trashed again. I'm quite eager to see how Starfleet operates in this new timeline, but so far we've seen an armada ripped apart by Nero and now it's raining Starships on Earth.

[Cewsh]

Yes, yes I'll be seeing this.

[Defrost]

Not sure how Star Treky it looks. Looks more like a Michael Bay movie than anything else.

[Beer-Belly]

The more Trekkies hate it, the more I'll probably like it.

[McBain]

I still haven't seen the reboot. I've heard mixed views.

I've always been more of a TNG guy, personally.

[Defrost]

The best Star Trek stuff to me was Deep Space Nine

[The_Mike]

I saw the reboot eventually. I liked it, as a film, but it's not really Star Trek. Definitely not TNG flavoured Trek. It's essentially a big sci-fi blockbuster with a handful of Trek lore thrown in, it isn't ever going to be something like Measure of a Man or I, Borg.

[MikeHunt]

Film looks brilliant. Can't wait to see cumberbatch on the big screen in this kind of film.

[McBain]

The best Star Trek stuff to me was Deep Space Nine

Was good, but not even in my top 2. Voyager really came into its own by the end.

Sisko was a bit of a don though.

[McBain]

I saw the reboot eventually. I liked it, as a film, but it's not really Star Trek. Definitely not TNG flavoured Trek. It's essentially a big sci-fi blockbuster with a handful of Trek lore thrown in, it isn't ever going to be something like Measure of a Man or I, Borg.

Trek for the masses eh.

I'll watch it at some point just so I've given it a chance. But already it sounds beige.

[Tainted Eclipse]

The best Star Trek stuff to me was Deep Space Nine

i got some love for ds9. i always slept with the tv on as a kid, and in like 5th grade there was an odd period of 2 months or so where i would wake up in the middle of the night right at the time my local fox channel would be playing an hour block of deep space nine, watch it, then fall asleep again.

[virms]

They did it with TDKR and TDK to my knowledge at the IMAX. Why do you think it's stupid?

Would have rather seen entire Joker opening and bane opening in the theater with the movie. Just more excitement. Star Trek I won't mind so much as I am not as invested into it.

[Chris]

The reboot was a lot of fun - it had exactly the kind of tone and pacing that the films desperately needed. There were also great performances from Pine and Quinto. The reboot certainly had a Star Wars vibe to it, but there were plenty of Trek elements as well. With the sequel, I am worried that we're moving towards films that focus on big explosions and slick effects without the kind of characters or story that made the TOS films so appealing.

I think Deep Space Nine was firmly the best of the Trek shows - it could tell a very personal story one week and then delve into large-scale political intrigue the next. But TNG will probably always be my favourite. Voyager has a bizarre appeal where it's very watchable, but also absolutely infuriating in terms of the lack of character development, actual consequences (Voyager must have the best repair technicians in the galaxy, considering the ship got the shit kicked out of it most weeks with no Starbase nearby) and a number of missed opportunities (the Maquis, various stories about the Borg, etc). Enterprise is easily the worst - I liked the third season and bits of the fourth, but the crew was mostly boring and it didn't take them long to start riffing on the same plots and themes as the previous shows.

I hope we see a return to TV at some point - I'd be more interested in seeing how the post-DS9 era pans out, as opposed to another prequel or alternate timeline. For now, I'll have to make do with the Blu-ray upgrade of TNG. They should have released most of the seasons by this time next year.

[Atty]

While the trailer didn't really tell us anything, it felt like a combination of the two original pilot episodes to me. Assuming Cumbersnatch is Gary Mitchell (which I'm fairly certain he is), he's the super powered, suddenly God-like former bff of Kirk. The extra bit in the Japanese trailer really struck me as The Cage. JJ said he wanted to do something with torture and it appears Kirk is secluded and being shown images that aren't really there to test him.

Combining the two would actually be a pretty smart thing to do. Much smarter than doing Khan.


I like the reboot more every time I see it.

[lotjx]

DS9 was the best one. Its the only one I own on DVD for complete seasons. I love the TNG crew, but it feels like minus Q, the Borg and a few other things most of their stories were disposable. Voyager's problem was the missed opportunities and the fact that they tried to make Janeway the most unlikable captain of all time. Once you saw the Klingons on Earth in Enterprise and the Cold War bullshit, you know the show was going to be bad. As a life long Trekker, I thought the reboot was good. It was a much needed breath of fresh air. The fact that they got the internet arguing who Benedict is instead of bashing it for random nerd things is a minor miracle. I am putting this top of my list for next year.

[Alf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4dIRbDjwBw

New trailer is up for Into Darkness... looks good.

[Mik]

Cumberbatch has excellent screen presence.

[Excel]

The best Star Trek stuff to me was Deep Space Nine


:yes:

[VHS]

I never watched JJ's first Star Trek, but I think in light of his helming of Star Wars I'll give this movie an adamant watch. That and the fact that this looks amazing. :yes:

[Beer-Belly]

Cumberbatch has excellent screen presence.
Sherlock is excellent.

[Mik]

Sherlock is pretty good, but to me he's the only stand out thing about it. If you like that give Luther a watch.

[Beer-Belly]

I haven't seen all of Sherlock, just the first season and the first episode of the second season. The episodes being 90 minutes is kind of daunting.

I'll check out Luther, though. Idris Elba is the shit.

[Chris]

Superbowl trailer for Into Darkness. I think Cumberbatch is going to be immense in this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zJfwp9ulChg

[Beer-Belly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo4cmfxc-1c
Looks dope. How do they expect people to not root for Cumberbatch?

[Jimmy Zero]

I've never actually been excited for a Star Trek movie before, but that looks absolutely fantastic.

[lotjx]

I really can't wait for this. Plus, Carol Marcus is a babe.

[LOCONUT]

Brilliant.

[Clutch]

CANT WAIT :hyper:

[Atty]

I was all set to sarcastically go "meh" to the trailer to be a shithead, but fuck me that looks incredible.

With all the fanboy speculation about Khan and Gary Mitchell, if JJ actually comes through with an original and brilliant villain, that will better than either of those two could have been. Khan would have alienated some and Gary Mitchell is a boring sod who uses the force.

[virms]

Trailer looks amazing. If Abrams does this with Star Wars I may jizz myself cor the rest of my life.

I am also loving this version of Kirk. The part is nailed and throw in Cumberbatch for good measure. :drool:

[mr sabu]

seeing into darkness tonight

[Grimario]

Just got back from seeing it. Loved it. Cumberbatch is fantastic.

[Mr_Nobody]

I hate you Grimario.

[Grimario]

:wiggle:

[Rip]

Saw the trailer when I took the big lad to see Iron Man on Monday, I didn't really enjoy the first film and I wasn't excited about this one really...

But bloody Hell the trailer looked amazing, the lad (8) turned to me and said 'Dad we ARE seeing that.'

Cumberbatch is outstanding in Sherlock Holmes and it looks like he's going to knock it out of the park here as well.

[Chris]

Cumberbatch is already on the rise, but this will be a huge catapult for him.

I'm seeing this on Saturday. Looking forward to seeing the dynamic between Pine and Quinto yet again. The reviews have been favourable so far, but I'm staying away from them as I'm pretty sure I've come across a massive spoiler (my own fault admittedly, but it was meant to be a non-spoiler review). Apparently there's a big spoiler lurking on IMDB, so I'd avoid there as well.

[virms]

Is this another one of those movies the UK is getting before the US?

[lotjx]

Everyone is getting this movie before the U.S. much like Iron Man 3.

[virms]

Time to nuke the world. That will show them.

[Atty]

Just don't tell me Canada got it before US...

[virms]

No no. US is safe. Canada is nuked on principle

South mexico is spared for being the best mexico.

[mr sabu]

it was ok

cumberpatch was awesome though

[JP]

Saw it tonight, bloody marvelous.

How they've managed to keep the big reveal a secret I have no idea.

"My name is Khan." So fucking obvious once you think about it, but Christ, there was an audible intake of breath from most of the cinema.

[Grimario]

Not when I saw it. That could have been because it was a midday session and there were only about 20 people there though...

My missus didn't even know who he meant :(

[Atty]

Goddamn it. Now I want to click those. I may have to stay away from my computer for the next week.

[The Rick]

Goddamn it. Now I want to click those. I may have to stay away from my computer for the next week.

Click it. You know you want to.
boom mind blown

[Alf]

Really enjoyed it.

Loved the old switcheroo with Spock and Kirk from Wrath Of Khan at the end. Although the whole blood thing was planted so obviously that the solution was mega obvious all along.

Third one based around a war with Klingon then? Loved the brief look at them.

I thought cumberbatch was good for the most part but there were a lot of times where it was too over the top to be believable. I wish we'd gotten more interaction between him and Kirk though, more mind games. Seemed a bit of a missed opportunity.

[Chris]

I thought it was excellent. Bigger than the first film, without sacrificing substance or being overly excessive.

The first film was a big spectacle - it wasn't low-brow by any means, but not particularly intelligent from start to finish. It was just a big fun sci-fi movie. Into Darkness found time for ethical questions in amongst the action and humour, and that brought it much closer in line with the kind of stories Trek told on television.

Huge plot spoilers contained below - don't read if you haven't seen it.

Simon Pegg was very good - his comic timing and the way he delivers certain lines was great. Zachary Qunito's take on Spock continues to impress. Paul Weller seemed to be having immense fun chewing the scenery. And I think Chris Pine provided a nice progression of Kirk's character. It was refreshing to see a young Kirk who was uncertain and scared. Benedict Cumberbatch was a great villain overall. I was worried from the trailers that he was just going to be delivering lines in a very cheesy and over-the-top manner. There were certainly occasions when he did so, but they tended to fit with times where Khan was particularly angry or mental. Easily the most compelling Trek villain since the Borg Queen, and I liked how they gave him some small shades of grey.

The way they tapped into Wrath of Khan was very bold, I thought. I never had a big problem with the alternate universe created in the last film. Some people seemed to think that it erased what we had been watching for the past 40 years. I never felt that way, and Into Darkness confirmed that the original timeline was still very important. Talking to Old Spock about how Khan was defeated, and the mirror outcome of Kirk sacrificing himself to save the ship, were absolutely superb. I'm sure it was still great for non-Trek fans, but hearing all the familiar dialogue from Kirk and Spock's final conversation in Wrath of Khan play out with the roles reversed was tremendous. Scotty saying "You'll flood the whole compartment" gave me chills, as you knew right away what was coming. I also loved seeing Spock scream "KHAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!". I found out about John Harrison's true identity a few days before the film, and in the lead-up to seeing the film I was a little annoyed that they sought to re-do such a memorable character. But their take on Khan really impressed me - it gave him a new menace, and still paid homage to one of the greatest scenes in Trek history. A great balance for new and old Trek fans.

I had very few problems with the film. I think they could have done a slightly better job of explaining Khan's past for those who were unfamiliar with him, but perhaps I'm remembering the dialogue wrong during his reveal. They treated us to another "Enterprise vs Massive ship" scenario, which has been done to death in Trek films (the Borg cube in First Contact, the Scimitar in Nemsis, the Nerada in the last film), but didn't do very much with the Vengeance once it was introduced. McCoy was still a little sidelined despite having some great lines here and there, but I think Kirk-Spock is always the most interesting aspect of that original triangle. Carol Marcus in her underwear was even more gratuitous than it looked in the trailer. The pace of the film might be a bit relentless, though I think there are more moments of calm or transition than other reviews suggest. But I think Mark Kermode's review on 5 Live said it best - you'd really have to go out of your way not to enjoy the film.

[Excel]

Just got back from seeing it. Bloody excellent. Much better than the first, which I by no means thought was a bad film.



Loved all the parallels and mirroring of Wrath of Khan. Didn't know Peter Weller was in this, was a pleasant surprise. Was really kinda bummed when they killed Pike. Loved the ultra violent Khan, which was way better than the original. Gave him more menace than making threats, quoting Moby Dick and putting insects in peoples ears ever did. He felt much more dangerous than the original Khan. I agree though that for people not familiar with his character they could have done more to explain his backstory.

I did like the switcheroo with Kirk and Spock being on opposite sides of the door. And like chris said, Scotty's lines in that scene were like a "Holy shit" moment. I couldn't recite those lines from Wratch of Khan, or even now having just heard them again, but I knew they were word for word as soon as I heard them. And it's been years since I saw Wrath of Khan. Also loved that Spock got the "KHHHAAAN" line instead of Kirk.



Also, for those wondering, its still lens-flare-ific. But I have no doubt that Abrams will do wonderful things with Star Wars too now.

[Mik]

Just back from seeing it. Really enjoyed it. Will post more about it tomorrow, however...


When Cumberbatch was cast I remember hearing that he was cast as Khan...so the 'reveal' didnt really come as a surprise at all. That might've been speculation that they then debunked, but it stuck with me, so I always figured that the other name was just a pseudonym.

[Atty]

Ok, read spoilers. The decision to do it came after reading a review that talked about how it could upset longtime Trekkies. Kind of glad I did, as I'd much rather my nerd rage not go off like in Iron Man 3 and knowing softens it, opening my mind up in advance.

Also decided to spoil myself after I got Skyped by a certain mod here a bit last night that, while not an explicit spoiler, basically told me. Especially when I replied that I was avoiding spoilers and there was five minutes without a reply.

[McBain]

Saw the first one recently and wasn't blown away by it in all honesty. I understand the need to give nods to the past, but all it served to do was remind me about how the original cast were so much better. Really not into this re-boot so far.

Plus the whole story was a bit limp, I thought.

[Atty]

Saw it. Liked it. I suspect many will hate it, but it did what it wanted to do well while tying into A LOT of Trek history and tidbits. Loved that they ran with Roddenberry's original format of tying stories into modern times. I liked J.J.'s first Trek more, but my opinion of that film skyrocketed on repeat viewing, as I suspect this one will too.


My biggest gripes were:

1. The science was wrong. This was true often in The Original Series and the whole black hole thing was a great nod to that in J.J's first Trek, but there's a bit here where the Enterprise is warping from one system to another that is well far away and it's shown as being mere seconds. I know they had Spock Prime introduce new maths that fucked with Trek science in the first film, but the warping bit bugged me a bit.

2. This was also true of J.J. 1, but the space combat was more flash and show than strategy. Budget constraints used to force Trek combat to deal much more with strategy and that's something I would like to see in future installments.

3. It was too close to Wrath of Khan towards the end. Absolutely no problem with them doing that arch and I loved the mirror image of it—especially with Spock's reaction—but so many things were so close to Wrath at the end that it was pointing out that the original did it better.

I must admit, I did love Khan being refrozen at the end, rather than marooned or killed. From what they started in this film, the next should involve a war with the Klingons and I'd love it if they left it on a cliffhanger with Khan's pod being damaged (in the Raiders storage room where they put him) and his eyes opening to set up 4. He's a great foe and I liked the portrayal a lot—especially actively NOT imitating Ricardo—who could be great in another film if they wanted. Liked that the Botany Bay being found was off-camera and the tie ins to Osama.

I also must admit that I really liked how little they developed him here. Trekkies know his backstory far too well already and the summer blockbuster audience won't care. I was a fan of the Enterprise being the Kobayshi Maru, by the way. Stranded in Klingon space, engines down, etc.

Very enjoyable summer movie, but the fold out couches in many a Trekkie's parents basements may be flipped over in rage. They'll get over it and, I suspect, like this in time.

[Bill Casey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVIGhYMwRgs

[Excel]

Ah, the Riker maneuver

[Atty]

How did I never notice that? I know each episode from the brief bits of Riker sitting down, but never noticed.

[Chris]

2. This was also true of J.J. 1, but the space combat was more flash and show than strategy. Budget constraints used to force Trek combat to deal much more with strategy and that's something I would like to see in future installments.
I was more disappointed that we didn't see the Enterprise defend itself in any way - I don't think it fired a single shot, unless I'm remembering it wrong. But we'll maybe see more outright battles in the third film, if they happen to focus on a particular race that popped up in Into Darkness.

I agree with your overall point. I don't think we'll ever see space combat as ambitious as Wrath of Khan, where we had long shots of two starships searching for each other and firing on each other. Nemesis and the Enterprise series were all about ships racing past each other and exchanging fire, and it just gets really boring after a while. The good thing about the original Trek films is that the scale of the Enterprise was respected. When Khan rushes Kirk head-on in the nebula, it takes the Enterprise time to bank and turn away from the Reliant's phaser fire. But as the franchise has gone on, we've had huge ships that can zip about like the Millennium Falcon. J.J. at least seems to have struck a decent balance between the two with the new films.

[Alf]

They made a good point that the ships aren't really built from a military perspective, but yeah.

[Atty]

To Alf's point, the first Enterprise was never built for combat in The Original Series. It was always about to be destroyed and overmatched in battle, but Kirk would cheat and outsmart the odds to turn death into a fighting chance to live.

The combat in Nemesis was actually the best thing about that movie. I thought they did that really well until they had Troi cheesily aim with her psycho babble.

Another example of what I mean, while not Trek, is Star Wars. In the original film, the attack on the Death Star was well played out in a manner that everyone in the audience could follow. We knew the goal, what was going on and could follow it (from children to adults, giving it a wider appeal.) Same with the Hoth battle. By Episode III, the visuals were much more impressive but was a bit of a mess with effects for the sake of having effects.

Into Darkness had a huge opening for a "smart battle", where Kirk and company had to outthink the no-win scenario but, aside from one great bit, it wasn't really a focus.

[Chris]

The combat in Nemesis was actually the best thing about that movie. I thought they did that really well until they had Troi cheesily aim with her psycho babble.
Are you trying to say that shining a torch in Marina Sirtis' face isn't a convincing way of portraying telepathy?

The green nebula background was nice, and having people sucked out of a hole on the bridge was cool, but it was the same kind of battle that we saw over and over again in Voyager and Enterprise. Ships trading shots while flying past each other, sparks flying on the bridge and people shouting about how the shields were down to such-and-such per cent. The battle in Nemesis was the best part of the film only because the film as a whole was stale and morose.

Back to Into Darkness, on further reflection I really really liked Simon Pegg's performance. He was superb in the comic relief department as you'd expect, but he also sold some of the more dramatic or serious scenes as well.

[Mik]

I thought Simon Peggy was a shite comedy relief figure and that the film in general was not especially funny.

[The Rick]

I saw this today, and loved it. I had a quibble with the big confrontation, which I'll use to reply to Mik. I thought the interplay between characters was better this time. Seeing more species of beings(aliens if you will) in the film was much needed in my opinion. The spat between Uhura and Spock was nice touch to bring a little more to Spock's character. I really think that this is Spock's movie more than anything. They gave him more of his human side, and he was the one in hot pursuit of the baddie at the end

I thought the action was really good, and the actors did even better with their characters this round. This is my favorite film thus far this year, and I don't see many that can displace it. We shall see though.


I thought Simon Peggy was a shite comedy relief figure and that the film in general was not especially funny.

I think it was more of where it was placed in the movie.
During the stand-off with Marcus, I felt it lost all of the tension for that moment. Yes, we all know the "good guys" will triumph. It is just more satisfying when the tension is ratcheted up. They did fine with Kirk and Kahn flying through the debris, but all of the mood was dispelled with Scotty running, and whatnot. The other points in the film(loading the ship, the bar, etc) were just fine to me. I think the movie could have done more to put Scotty in more danger, not just running around a seemingly empty ship.

[lotjx]

To Alf's point, the first Enterprise was never built for combat in The Original Series. It was always about to be destroyed and overmatched in battle, but Kirk would cheat and outsmart the odds to turn death into a fighting chance to live.

The combat in Nemesis was actually the best thing about that movie. I thought they did that really well until they had Troi cheesily aim with her psycho babble.

Another example of what I mean, while not Trek, is Star Wars. In the original film, the attack on the Death Star was well played out in a manner that everyone in the audience could follow. We knew the goal, what was going on and could follow it (from children to adults, giving it a wider appeal.) Same with the Hoth battle. By Episode III, the visuals were much more impressive but was a bit of a mess with effects for the sake of having effects.

Into Darkness had a huge opening for a "smart battle", where Kirk and company had to outthink the no-win scenario but, aside from one great bit, it wasn't really a focus.

The original Enterprise fought a lot. The problem for Abrahams and anyone doing space battles is they have no idea what strategy is.

[Atty]

The original Enterprise fought a lot.

Yes it did and that just reinforces my point: the original Enterprise was always overmatched. Never presented as a battleship, with Kirk and company having to outsmart the situation at hand.

[The Law]

So I absolutely loved it. I say this as a "Star Trek" newbie, having never seen any of the various TV series or movies before the J.J. Abrams one. My take:

I'm a huge "Sherlock" fan, so I was predisposed to love Cumberbatch. But I thought he played a magnificent villain. He was scary as hell, really gave off an Alan Rickman type of vibe. If I had one complaint, it would be that I wish we got more of him playing mind games with the crew and manipulating Kirk. Unfortunately, a summer blockbuster needs more explosions, so they had to keep that short. I also wish we had gotten more backstory and motivation for Khan. He seems like a somewhat honorable villain, but more explanation of the tragedy that led to his current incarnation would have made for a more powerful story.

I thought this characterization of him was excellent. I find Khan much more relevant as a terrorist mastermind than an ethnic conqueror. It's classic "Star Trek" to make the plots a metaphor for the modern day, and Khan was very much that: like bin Laden, an evil monster foolishly armed and trained in order to defeat another enemy.

I thought that the last 20 minutes (Kirk's sacrifice, Khan's suicide attack) were going to turn out to be Old Spock's retelling of what happened in the original timeline, and that New Spock was going to end up changing the timeline and sacrificing himself to save Kirk and stop Khan. I like what they ended up doing better, although Spock dying would have given it more emotional heft.

Where do they go from here? It's not clear that we're necessarily headed for a war between the Federation and the Klingons. A year apparently passed between the events of the film and the launch at the end, and they don't seem to be at war. Will the next film pick up after the completion of their five year journey? Take place during it? Have something interrupt it. I have to say, Khan was so excellent that it will be hard not to use him as villain again. At the minimum, they'll have to foreshadow his return.

[lotjx]

As an old school fan, I thought it was good. The first third of the film with all the action and Pike's death was amazing. Even going into Chronos was awesome. I loved the Secton 31 drop as well as the NX Enterprise and Kelvin being on Admiral Marcus' death. All the actors played the roles dead on and the script got everyone right even Scotty quitting and Spock filing the report. Its when they drop the Khan bomb that the film becomes this weird homage to Wrath of Khan while trying to one up it. Since you can't top Khan, it becomes a game of remember this scene if you do the original one was better. I did like the Kirk/Khan team up and Kirk not trusting him at all. I even liked Kirk's resurrection, because it saves us from Star Trek III, the Search for Kirk. For all of its good parts, its just a rehash. I would say its not as an exciting of a rehash as the original source material which if today's audience can't get into, that is their problem.

There are other flaws too such as going from Earth to Chronos like going to the next door shop or Young Spock calling Old Spock out of the blue. The major problem is there is nothing original here. What made the last one good was the origin story was new and something never seen before. I have seen Khan, I have seen the Federation try to first strike the Klingons and I have seen a lot of this film in Trek. Hopefully, now that they blew their load on Khan, they can do something new. They have a great cast and people who know these characters and dialogue, but they are not a good enough team to re-write the classics.

[Atty]

I did love the blood thing more after rewatching Space Seed. Bones talks about, before they know who they've woken up, how much he'd like to study him and how he's never seen someone's body regenerate like his. Cool tie in to something that wasn't used in Wrath of Khan.


Young Spock calling Old Spock actually works as a nice parallel. Kirk cheats and Spock doesn't but here, when Kirk is doing what Spock would do, Spock pulls the ultimate cheat—asking himself for knowledge of the future, albeit it an alternate one. They don't show what Nimoy tells him, but from what happens next and from Quinto's reaction to Scotty calling, I'd imagine it was that Khan is most vulnerable when he thinks he has won and that Spock had to die to fix the warp core and save the ship. That would explain his quick reaction, realizing that Kirk took the his place.

LOVE the Spock rage. Truly beautiful moment, really, as it shows just how much he actually does care.

[Chris]

Major plot spoilers:

I don't think Into Darkness was trying to one-up Wrath of Khan. It was a nice homage, and a great way of maintaining the relevance of the original timeline whilst taking the same characters and circumstances in a different direction. If Old Spock hadn't been consulted about Khan, I think that would have been worse. The problem with time travel devices in Sci-fi movies is that they're often not exploited as much as they should be. Young Spock calling him up for some insight was completely "logical" and fit the character. I wasn't expecting Nimoy to pop up, but I think it would have been silly to make such a big deal out of there being an Older Spock in the alternate universe in the first film and then never mention him again.

Kronos being so nearby was a mistake. They got to Vulcan very fast in the first film too. I'm also still not comfortable with the idea of there being a transporter capable of operating across such vast distances or from a stationary position to a ship at warp, even if it was Old Spock who helped Scotty to introduce it. But at least they haven't just discarded the technology.

Since they made a big deal out of the five year mission at both the beginning and end of Into Darkness, I expect the third film to see the crew boldly going. They might run into the Klingons while they're out there, as there were several occasions in TOS where both the Federation and the Klingons tried to influence a planet. I guess it comes down to whether they want to show something truly original or whether they want to do an homage to another TOS episode. If they bring Benedict back at some point, then they could do their own take on Wrath of Khan in terms of a Khan who is obsessed with seeking revenge (this time on Spock, rather than Kirk).

[lotjx]

Major plot spoilers:

I don't think Into Darkness was trying to one-up Wrath of Khan. It was a nice homage, and a great way of maintaining the relevance of the original timeline whilst taking the same characters and circumstances in a different direction. If Old Spock hadn't been consulted about Khan, I think that would have been worse. The problem with time travel devices in Sci-fi movies is that they're often not exploited as much as they should be. Young Spock calling him up for some insight was completely "logical" and fit the character. I wasn't expecting Nimoy to pop up, but I think it would have been silly to make such a big deal out of there being an Older Spock in the alternate universe in the first film and then never mention him again.

Kronos being so nearby was a mistake. They got to Vulcan very fast in the first film too. I'm also still not comfortable with the idea of there being a transporter capable of operating across such vast distances or from a stationary position to a ship at warp, even if it was Old Spock who helped Scotty to introduce it. But at least they haven't just discarded the technology.

Since they made a big deal out of the five year mission at both the beginning and end of Into Darkness, I expect the third film to see the crew boldly going. They might run into the Klingons while they're out there, as there were several occasions in TOS where both the Federation and the Klingons tried to influence a planet. I guess it comes down to whether they want to show something truly original or whether they want to do an homage to another TOS episode. If they bring Benedict back at some point, then they could do their own take on Wrath of Khan in terms of a Khan who is obsessed with seeking revenge (this time on Spock, rather than Kirk).

My major problem with Spock calling himself is there is no logic in it. If he were to call him as the only person he can trust in the Federation when the Admiral attacks then drop Khan's name then I am ok with it. Young Spock calling Old Spock as a shot in the dark that he may somehow know about Khan was ridiculous.I have no problem with Khan being part of the story especially due to the destruction of Vulcan and acting like he did. My problem was them trying to redo all the best scenes from Khan in their own way.

[StoneColdWWE316]

Really liked Star Trek 2 and the call back to Wrath Of Khan with Kirk this time in the radiation room while Spock is outside talking to him/yelling Khan's name. Another thing that was nice was seeing the Klingons home world instead of them just mentioning it or whatever. I didn't mind the calling to Old Spock and getting idea of did they deal with Khan & did they beat him.

Spoiler tags or gtfo.

[Grimario]

Gees dude, learn to use spoilers...

[StoneColdWWE316]

Gee,sorry.

[JP]

Fuck, you're a dick.

[Alf]

Gees dude, learn to use spoilers...

Why the fuck would you be in here and not expect to see spoilers.

Common sense fuckers, use it.

[Mik]

Polite reminders are all thats required lads.

[The Rogerer]

Doesn't really matter with the Activity Stream, anyway.

[Atty]

Major plot spoilers:

I don't think Into Darkness was trying to one-up Wrath of Khan. It was a nice homage, and a great way of maintaining the relevance of the original timeline whilst taking the same characters and circumstances in a different direction.


Not just that, but...
...it was much more of a retelling of Space Seed than Wrath of Khan. The ending bit was a mirror bit of Khan, but the rest was more Space Seed. Not knowing who he is, him destroying anyone/everyone in physical confrontation, turning a Starfleet Officer against Starfleet (the chap at the beginning of the movie and the chapette he was super-banging), threatening to cut off life support to kill everyone so he can take the ship, Khan thinking he's a peacemaker, Kirk/Spock breaking a piece off of the ship/floating car to whack him in the head with and so forth. There's even a throw away line in Space Seed where Bones talks about never having seen a body with metabolism/regeneration like his before and wishing he could study it. That's a nice call back to a line that I didn't even remember was in Space Seed until watching it after the movie.

So, it's closer to a retelling of Space Seed with the mirror bit at the end and set as an allegory for the war on terror.


Liking it more with time. Need to see it again.

[Atty]

With J.J. off to do Star Wars, I really hope whomever takes over is a proper fan of Star Trek and is able to focus more on exploration than action and Earth. I know that's less marketable on paper, but there is so much to utilize in this alternate universe that they've created, that it would be a shame to see it relegated to a shoot out with the Klingons.

I mentioned this after they first rebooted it and changed the timeline, but I would absolutely love for someone to do a reimagining of The Cage, the original pilot that was rejected for being "too cerebral" with Kirk in place of Pike. The Telosians have become a classic sci-fi design that mainstream audiences, while they won't know who they are, will recognize on a visual level. Their ability to alter the reality around Kirk could make for big action sequences, while he's still trapped away in their menagerie, exploring his character and developed temperament as they examine him. He could literally even fight his own fears and self-doubts, all while in his head. It being a form of torture could play as an allegory for modern times and they could have Spock and company diverted by some threat to the Enterprise (Gorn, Klingons, Romulans, whatever) while Kirk is tested by this unknown species.

If they want to push a relationship between Kirk and Carol Marcus, having her fill the role of the female in The Cage (the Telosians taking both of them) could make for actual development on that front. Not to mention, that The Cage gives a more natural avenue for cameos (Nimoy, Greenwood, some others from Trek past), with it being in Kirk's head. Hell, it could allow for a Shatner cameo, with Kirk talking to his potential future self in his mind, which could be a classic moment of Kirk getting guidance from within.


As is, the new series is really feeling like the second pilot to me after Into Darkness. The Cage/Original Series was smarter and more developed, but Where No Man Has Gone Before/JJ had more of the action the mainstream craves. I think it's very possible to do both. Gene Roddenberry's vision of a brighter future where humanity moves on from its violent ways really isn't what we've seen in J.J.'s version. The terrorist attack at the start of Into Darkness would have had more resonance if that was the type of peaceful world we had been immersed into.

I still like Into Darkness and, after watching the episodes that it drew from, I probably like it more than when I left the theater, but it had many problems, not the least of which was its willingness to abandon the story it was telling for attempted fan service. In the end, the fan service seemed to just irritate fans and their story may have been better served by ignoring what had been told in the past.

[Chris]

Gene Roddenberry's vision of a brighter future where humanity moves on from its violent ways really isn't what we've seen in J.J.'s version. The terrorist attack at the start of Into Darkness would have had more resonance if that was the type of peaceful world we had been immersed into.
With the events of the first film, at least there's a logic behind Starfleet becoming more militaristic and more paranoid about security. And with the damage done to Starfleet in both films, there's a case for an all-out conflict with the Klingons in the next movie given that Starfleet would be weaker than it was in the original timeline (and hence the Klingons might be more motivated to come knocking on the front door). But I think the essence of Star Trek works better in a TV show format than a film. First Contact is really the only Trek film that balances action-adventure with the Roddenberry vision of what humanity will become (and that vision was far more cemented in TNG than TOS). Action and spectacle will always be on the menu for the mainstream audience, for better or worse.

Into Darkness spoilers:

As nifty and bold as some of the call-backs to Wrath of Khan were, there's the danger of going too far too soon. Spock's death in Wrath of Khan is gut-wrenching, and that emotion was earned through three seasons of television and the character being a pop culture icon for nearly 20 years. Having Kirk sacrifice himself to save the ship in the new film fits his character, but the emotional response they were trying to stimulate with his death hadn't been earned in the same manner. Spock screaming "KHAAAAAAAAAN" was cool on an in-joke level, but a bit of a stretch on a character level.

Kirk's death and Spock's reaction felt like a scene that would be more affecting in a third film as opposed to a second. Kirk getting the command of the flagship by the end of the first film was tough to swallow. Then you have him being demoted and reinstated within about 10 minutes, and then dying and being brought back to life in the final act. They're burning through a lot of big moments for characters that are meant to be in their early years. It's also a case of trying to have their cake and eat it, by resetting the timeline and yet still riffing on the original stuff (and going so far as to echo both Space Seed and Wrath of Khan). We've seen cities and planets getting destroyed and massive holes in space. We have very advanced transporter technology that they're already taking to the extreme (beaming all the way to Kronos, for goodness sake).We've seen the Enterprise trashed. Into Darkness very much felt like JJ signing off on the franchise and you have to wonder where they go from here.

[lotjx]

I would actually prefer new stories for the crew instead of rehashing old ones. The whole point of this reboot was to make things new. Instead, it seems to be done to get a young cast which they could have done without getting Kirk and Spock involved. I don't mind the new films and a lot of what happened made sense as far as the Federation goes. Star Trek does work better as a TV show, yet this cast is not going to the small screen unless there is massive checks like a $2 million an episode for each cast member. I would have actually liked if they did what Avengers did and started a TV show out of their movie. Maybe introduce a new crew that was helping them out at times and then do that crew as a show.

I do wish, they would go back to the sense of exploration that Roddenberry envisioned. There was one cool scene in the new film with it, but that was about it. I would like them to do a film about first contact with the Betazoids or the Ferengi or the Cardissans, something we haven't already seen. I also would like to see a Klingon War with sparkles of Romulans, but at the same time having a new race caught in the middle.

[Atty]

First contact with the Ferengi happened in TNG. There was a backlash when they even showed them in Enterprise, despite the crew not knowing who they were. And the Cardassians are mentioned in J.J. 1, so that has probably already happened.

[turdpower]

NSFW

http://www.hotwomenmagazine.com/articles/2011/20121123x1.html

[Rali]

Lovely she is.

[Mik]

She's been topless a lot more than that too.

[lotjx]

Bought the Blu Ray Original series set. God, I love it.

[Chris]

I'm making my way through season 3 of the TNG Blu-ray. The remastered ships and effects are brilliant. The colour of the uniforms and sets get a new lease of life in HD. The show really does look like it was shot today. If there's one season of TNG that everyone should see, it's season 3. It's filled with classic episodes and one of the best season cliffhangers in TV history.

DS9 is surely going to get the same remastering treatment, especially since the Trekcore fansite has tracked down the original CG assets for the show; making the conversion process far less daunting than it would have been. I imagine it might take them longer to work their magic on the later seasons, given that the show goes on to have episodes with huge fleets of ships shooting at each other.

[Matty C]

I saw the new film last night. I'm not a huge Star Trek fan, more a casual viewer. I thought it was fun. I didn't make the connections between Wrath of Khan or the episode people have quoted in here because it's been ages since I've seen Wrath and I'm not sure if I ever saw the episode. With that said, I'm not completely sold on Pine as Kirk. I can't even really say why, I just don't quite believe him for whatever reason. I loved Pegg's Scotty though so perhaps there is no accounting for taste.

Overall it was nothing Earth shattering but I enjoyed it.

[lotjx]

http://comicbookspotlight.wordpress.com/

My review and new under construction website for my pocast is up. Please excuse the mess.

[The_Mike]

Finally saw this last night, and I really enjoyed it. It was a bit actiony for a Trek movie, and my goodness Abrams needs to tone down the damn lens flare, but all the pieces added up to a solid film. The handling of female and non-American characters could give sociologists a fair amount to chew on, but nothing was too outlandish, and I'm glad the story left room to...

... revisit Kahn as well as maintaining some moral ambiguity with him. I really hope the five year mission is the basis of the next one, though, because Star Trek's got to be about trekking the stars eventually, surely?

[Atty]

About right there, Mike.

With Khan, it actually makes a lot of sense to leave him as they did to me. I mean, McCoy had just discovered his magic blood and destroying that would have been idiotic on their part, as would leaving him awake. It felt like there was a scene missing that deals with him after he's caught at the end, but I could very much see this revisited in the future. It at least leaves the possibility there.


Really want the next one to be them exploring the unknown. War with the Klingons is the actiony thing to do, but exploration is better. I mentioned it before (broken record time), but since Pike never went to Talos IV, I'd love Kirk to take his place and revision the initial pilot. Enterprise is out exploring, stumbles on Talos IV, the Talosians take Kirk and Marcus (to give them some development together) and the Enterprise has to leave because of something with the Klingons. Kirk can get real development in the worlds he sees through the Talosians, he bonds with Carol, we get big space battles RAWR with Klingons and so forth. Plus, the Talosians causing Kirk to have a talk with his version of his future self (*cough* Shatner *cough*) would be money for a cameo. Hell, it would allow Pike to show up again.

[The_Mike]

I really like that plan. Perhaps Spock can be in charge of the Enterprise and be torn between returning to help out against the Klingons and sticking around to save Kirk. After everything that happened in Into Darkness, it should be a much tougher moral choice for him to make.

[Atty]

http://scrolldowntoriker.com/

[WizoOzz]

So, I watched Into Darkness finally.

Really, really enjoyed it. Enjoyed some of the nods to the second film in the original film series. And if my girlfriend can say she liked it, I'd mark that down as a success (she hated Star Trek until I forced her to watch the reboot).

[Atty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiSn2JuDQSc

[Chris]

So the first trailer for Star Trek Beyond has dropped:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRVD32rnzOw

I have to admit, my immediate reaction was pretty negative. Now it's just bemused. The music and the crash-bang-wallop style from start to finish - you almost think it's a troll against those who were looking forward to the 5 year mission and maybe some questions being asked about humanity or the universe in amongst the fighting. Trek has leaned more towards action ever since the later seasons of Voyager, and I accept that modern Trek movies are going to use spectacle to draw in the masses. But this is pretty full on. The Enterprise got immensely trashed in Into Darkness, and we're basically getting the exact same thing again along with what looks like a starship graveyard and a huge prison that needs breaking out of. It's interesting to see the big focus on the white alien girl, and I wonder if Uhura just gets sidelined again.

[Beefy]

PEW PEW PEW

[MikeHunt]

looks shiiiiiiiiit

[VHS]

Jesus. There really needs to come a time when... shit isn't all about dumb fun. Because that looks fucking stupid as fuck.

That ain't Star Trek.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ29S0CV9YA

[Ozanne]

:( It pains me to say it but it looks pretty poor.

I know the newer films aren't really Trek films, but that looks so far removed from Trek. I don't want to see a film of them running about a planet. Give me them on starships exploring the galaxy and meeting new races. I want to star ships fighting, plus the whole diplomatic side as well. This just looks like an action films (with that terrible music under scoring it) which just happens to be set in the Star Trek universe.

I'll still watch it, but at this moment in time I'm disappointed.

[Bill Casey]

Needs more Jason Statham...

[Ozanne]

Make me wonder what the new series will be like.

[Bill Casey]

It's safer to make it a mindless action movie. It's proven to make money. Studio executives have crunched the numbers. They saw that movie with the raccoon and the tree. It's only logical. They would be an enormous risk to try and advance cinema by delving into big budget heady philosophy, sociology, and political science...


What do you say, Kirk?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toG6aSQFF7Y

[Chris]

There were early warning signs when Simon Pegg was talking about how the studio wanted Star Trek to be less Star Trek-y, and that they wanted to make Westerns and heist movies with Trek characters to draw in the non-Trekkers. Yet Justin Lin talked about how he wanted to get back to the roots of exploration and examining humanity, From this trailer, it seems like the studio's idea of examining humanity is to see how many people can be sucked out of a big hole in the ship's hull or burned to a crisp in an explosion. The whole rebranding thing just feels so forced. Make a big space opera action movie and don't call it Star Trek.

[Bill Casey]

Make a big space opera action movie and don't call it Star Trek.
But brand recognition...

*makes brand unrecognizable*

[The_Mike]

But brand recognition...

*makes brand unrecognizable*

So often people bring up the idea that this is safe and normal and just what Hollywood does, because taking a known property and slapping it on something makes it sell more. The thing is, I wonder what their plan is for when the big known properties are milked dry or distorted beyond recognition. Star Trek sells because people remember, and enjoyed, actual Star Trek. What're they going to sell tomorrow?

[sam_elmendorf]

I'm enjoying the movies. I'm surely not the only one out there that loves the Original Star Trek and spin offs and movies to not just enjoy a big movie action packed Star Trek. I think all the cast are perfect for this incarnation of Trek. I want to see the Enterprise in peril, and the cast just enjoying making these movies. Plus, it's just a trailer. Wait till it comes out and than backlash it if it deserves it. Surely this is going to better than Will Smith not being in Independence Day 2 and his look-a-like supposedly his kid coming out next summer.

I also enjoyed Enterprise, so take that as you want.

I'm looking forward to ID:R also!

[Bill Casey]

The thing is, I wonder what their plan is for when the big known properties are milked dry or distorted beyond recognition.
Retire on a big pile of money and let other people deal with it...

[Rancid_Planet]

I think that's actually on the JPMorgan Chase Christmas Cards.

[Rancid_Planet]

I'm enjoying the movies. I'm surely not the only one out there that loves the Original Star Trek and spin offs and movies to not just enjoy a big movie action packed Star Trek. I think all the cast are perfect for this incarnation of Trek. I want to see the Enterprise in peril, and the cast just enjoying making these movies. Plus, it's just a trailer. Wait till it comes out and than backlash it if it deserves it. Surely this is going to better than Will Smith not being in Independence Day 2 and his look-a-like supposedly his kid coming out next summer.

I also enjoyed Enterprise, so take that as you want.

I'm looking forward to ID:R also!

I fucking loved Enterprise. Dr. Phlox is the fucking best.

[Ozanne]

I'm enjoying the movies. I'm surely not the only one out there that loves the Original Star Trek and spin offs and movies to not just enjoy a big movie action packed Star Trek. I think all the cast are perfect for this incarnation of Trek. I want to see the Enterprise in peril, and the cast just enjoying making these movies. Plus, it's just a trailer. Wait till it comes out and than backlash it if it deserves it. Surely this is going to better than Will Smith not being in Independence Day 2 and his look-a-like supposedly his kid coming out next summer.

I also enjoyed Enterprise, so take that as you want.

I'm looking forward to ID:R also!

I enjoyed Enterprise too, even if the Temporal Cold War nearly ruined it. The episode at the end of season 2 that had the frozen Borg in was great.

ID:R will be much better than this though. My biggest issue is that it looks like they just running around on another planet, give me some actual events happening in space. Even if they full on went and ruined cannon further by hinting at Borg (easily done due to the events of Enterprise and the destruction of Vulcan), or delving further into the Klingon War. They can make a Trek film that will bring in the audience without making a generic space action film, there is definitely the market there for it.

[lotjx]

I hate when Star Trek has to use the destruction of the Enterprise to bring people to theaters. However, I think what they are doing is the Gamemasters of Talkisons where they are captured to compete in combat and the first interracial kiss. Its cool seeing a new race and it looks more character driven then plot driven. Patton Oswalt referred to it as Stardians of the Galaxy. Which is what it looks like. My great hope is going to be the new TV show in the fall. Hopefully, they will go back to the TNG universe. There are a ton of great stories that could be told after DS9 and even Voyager.

[Rancid_Planet]

Once again. The money show would be the same old universe we know and love but set 50 years or so past the events of TNG/DS9/Voyager where everything has gone to shit and the federation is just about to crumble.

The theme of the show could be reviving the once great federation and restoring order to the now chaotic quadrant.

Perhaps even giving the show a dual theme of what it's like on earth and how that corresponds to what the Enterprise G Is doing. Switching back and forth from the Earth storyline to the Enterprise storyline.

Also I'd like there to be a stronger emphasis on nerdynerd. Nerdynerdynerdnerd. And nerdy spazzy nerd should never nerdynerd dork the how have I ever had sex with a girl.

[Chris]

The new show needs a bible of things that must never happen again in a Trek show. No more shuttle crashes. No more transporter mishaps. No more "Crewman and alien get stuck on a planet and have to work together to survive". No more "This is a crucial blow to the Borg, until the next time they pop up". Oh, and no more awful battle dialogue like "Shields down to 60 percent!!!". There are ways of conveying tension and panic without sounding like the main computer.

Give the whole thing over to Ron Moore and set it after the Dominion War where the Romulans and Federation have an uneasy peace while the rest of the quadrant recovers. Whatever it is, they definitely need to get away from 26 episodes - especially if it's another show about a ship travelling through space.

[Bill Casey]

Also I'd like there to be a stronger emphasis on nerdynerd. Nerdynerdynerdnerd. And nerdy spazzy nerd should never nerdynerd dork the how have I ever had sex with a girl.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SySZdvsFYt4

[Judas Iscariot]

Star Trek coming out with anything on the eve of Star Wars is like Tom Delonge coming out with news the second Blink 182 + Matt Skiba gives details about their next album.

[Rancid_Planet]

Tom DeLonge has just announced his newest music project. Here is the quote from his press release.

"I am happy to announce my new musical beginning with my new band (although really what is a "band"?) which is called New Future Spaceship Sounds. NFSS is proud to release our debut album "Perpetual Supernova" on February 29th 2016. We hope to awaken the vortex demon in the minds of our fans and inspire them to not only be the best people they can be but also to contribute their ideas to our ever evolving concept of fully interactive multi media integrated networks of passionate embarkments.

Peace
Love
Space brains

Tom Delonge"

[lotjx]

Remember when A-Rod resigned with the Yankees and announced when the Red Sox where about to win the World Series. Star Trek is A-Rod.

[The_Mike]

No more "Crewman and alien get stuck on a planet and have to work together to survive".

But then there'll be no more Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

[Atty]

The new show needs a bible of things that must never happen again in a Trek show. No more shuttle crashes. No more transporter mishaps. No more "Crewman and alien get stuck on a planet and have to work together to survive". No more "This is a crucial blow to the Borg, until the next time they pop up". Oh, and no more awful battle dialogue like "Shields down to 60 percent!!!". There are ways of conveying tension and panic without sounding like the main computer.

Give the whole thing over to Ron Moore and set it after the Dominion War where the Romulans and Federation have an uneasy peace while the rest of the quadrant recovers. Whatever it is, they definitely need to get away from 26 episodes - especially if it's another show about a ship travelling through space.

I miss the old timeline. Rebooting for movies is fine, but all it has done long term is make me miss the original timeline. Post DS9/Voyager is a great period to explore and they'd have total freedom to do anything, more so than a reboot of TOS would.

[The_Mike]

I miss the old timeline. Rebooting for movies is fine, but all it has done long term is make me miss the original timeline. Post DS9/Voyager is a great period to explore and they'd have total freedom to do anything, more so than a reboot of TOS would.

Something I think would be really interesting to see would be how they marry the 24th century's level of technology with the early 21st century. We have viewscreen conversations and tricorders and stuff now. Obviously warp travel and transporters are a bit ambitious to imagine us having even in 300-400 years but a surprising amount of 'new' tech in the TNG era is stuff we have now. 3D printers are basically primitive replicators.

[Rancid_Planet]

Was watching DS9 the other day and the kid, Sylas (he's 6) walks in the room and for a second he actually looks up from his tablet and glances at the tv. Some character is holding one of those small touchscreen pads and hands it to Sisko. Sylas looks up and says "oh he has a tablet like mine".

[The_Mike]

The PADDs are a great example. It's the exactly thing we soon invented, except ours have way better screens.

[Bill Casey]

They also invented computers that don't understand Scottish accents...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9kTVZiJ3Uc

[Ozanne]

My great hope is going to be the new TV show in the fall. Hopefully, they will go back to the TNG universe. There are a ton of great stories that could be told after DS9 and even Voyager.

It's coming in Jan 2017.

How would people feel about the TV show being set in the new film universe, but in the TNG period? Gives them more scope to play with due to the new timeline, as they can still look into a possible collapse of the Federation along with war with the Romulan. Then in the ideal world at the end of season 1 you get the first hint of the Borg being on their way, then nothing till the end of the next season when it ends with the sight of a Borg fleet on the outskirts of the Alpha quadrant. Season 3 would show dribs and drabs of them building up the season 3 finale where the invasion happens.

The thing about setting it after Voyager would be the bastardisation of the Borg, if they hadn't been ruined in that show then yeah go for it.

[Beefy]

Setting it in the film Universe is setting it in the TNG universe. It is the same Universe. Star Trek established their rules of time travel long ago. Parallel universes exist in Trek but they aren't created by changes in the timeline. If you go back in time and change something that action changes the timeline and deletes everything that went before.

[Rancid_Planet]

I don't want anymore rehashes. Something entirely new please.

And by "new" I mean in terms of setting and time line. Not "This'll get the kids watching! We've got one of the Kardashians playing a Vulcan!

[Ozanne]

Setting it in the film Universe is setting it in the TNG universe. It is the same Universe. Star Trek established their rules of time travel long ago. Parallel universes exist in Trek but they aren't created by changes in the timeline. If you go back in time and change something that action changes the timeline and deletes everything that went before.

Sorry, I meant set it in the TNG period of time but in the new film universe where Vulcan is destroyed etc.

I remember there being rumours (years ago) of a Trek show set in the Federation academy back on Earth, that always seemed like a poor idea.

[casselmm47]

No more 'stuck in the Holosuite' stories. Most of them came across as "I have a great idea for a gangster/western/Victorian era/Civil War/Roaring 20's/counterculture 60's story that I wanna pitch... but since I'm stuck working on a 23rd/24th century setting of a Star Trek series, how do I shoehorn this in....?"

[Ozanne]

Yep. Those Tom Paris holodeck episodes were awful.

[Beefy]

Fair Haven. Jesus Christ.

[Ozanne]

Voyager could've been such a great show.

[lotjx]

The Maquis should have mutinied in season two. As for the film, it looks like a weird combo of Star Trek III and IV. In Star Trek III, they blow up the Enteprise and most of the cast is stuck on a planet. Star Trek IV was the more fun one with a lot of characters pairing up. Granted neither of them had new aliens and catchy 20th Century music. Still, it makes sense after Into Darkness being Wrath of Khan with a lot of post 9-11 shit.

[Chris]

Voyager obviously had a state-of-the-art facility for building shuttles, not to mention torpedoes. I think all the holodeck stories and shuttle crash stories and Borg stories were an easy way to pad out a 26 episode season. With 13 episodes, you can keep a tighter narrative and have actual character arcs, which is the model that the new show should follow.

Voyager had some stellar episodes spread out over the 7 years, but they dwelled too much on dumb action with the latest hard-headed aliens of the week shooting at them and making sparks fly on the bridge. I didn't think I could get bored of space battles until Enterprise came along and had a shooting war with someone almost every other week. When the Enterprise D came under attack, it was an event because it only happened a handful of times each season and it was rare that the ship was actually in danger of being destroyed.

[Rancid_Planet]

That's true but with the D it was almost ridiculous. Those damn galaxy class ships were too fucking badass. I think they were just trying to stress the vulnerability of the ship with all those battles on Enterprise. The D would get pummeled for 20 minutes by three Romulan ships and all that would happen is "Shields down to 20 percent". Then boom LaForge gets the weapons system back on line and the D blows every ship into fucking spacedust with one shot.

[Chris]

Aha this must be one of the geekiest conversations in ages. Where have you lot been all these years?

One of my favourite Galaxy moments is during the battle to retake DS9. The Federation fleet makes a run through the Dominion lines, set to awesome music I might add. A Cardassian cruiser takes a few cheeky pot-shots at the passing ships. And in swoop two Galaxy-class ships from the right of the frame, pulverising it with phasers. Those wrinkly-necked bastards were fucked.

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/6x06/sacraficeofangels090.jpg

[lotjx]

Sacrifice of Angels is one of the best Star Trek battles of all time. It might also be their best DS9 episode.

[Rancid_Planet]

I never appreciated DS9 enough the first time. I've recently gone back and watched them on Netflix and it's just so much better to me now. I'd say Voyager actually had slightly better character development but DS9 was just the fucking tits in every other way.

[The_Mike]

Voyager could have been one of the best shows on television if the producers and writers had some discipline. The ship having very limited resources should have made every episode matter, and if the show ever was cancelled it would have been pretty easy to set up a bittersweet endpoint where they fail to get home. I think if it were produced today, it could be something pretty special, but I guess back then you just had to have 26 episodes and as many explosions as the budget could provide.

[Chris]

Battlestar Galactica is what Voyager should have been - a ship on the run, conflict between the characters and actually working towards getting to a destination rather than just sailing through space and hoping some wormhole would pop up to help them. It's interesting that DS9 managed to challenge the values and ethics of the Federation, whereas Voyager - stranded in a dangerous area of the universe and on limited supplies for about half of season 1 - clung to them somewhat illogically. There's an episode called "Alliances" where Janeway needs to be convinced to let go of the Starfleet rule book and seek out an ally against the Kazon. This ally turns out to be just as "bad" as the Kazon, and the episode ends with Janeway coming to the conclusion that what they really need to do is stick to the Starfleet principles even more. It was a good episode, ultimately let down by a bizarre ending which reset the temporary flirtation with existing outside of the prime directive.

[The_Mike]

I remember that episode. Janeway's textbook idealism was annoying early on, but I always assumed it would build to some kind of mutiny. They flirted with it now and again, and the ingredients were there with the Maquis having been absorbed into the crew, but they'd hit that reset button every time.

[sam_elmendorf]

I loved the new incarnation of BSG and Caprica. I have not seen Blood & Chrome yet, but damn I miss these characters. I wish they would come back for one more season, either show.

[Rancid_Planet]

Janeway was a terrible captain. Not a bad or uninteresting person mind you. Just a bad captain.

[The_Mike]

While I appreciate the milestone, I think they may have written themselves into a corner by having her be their first leading female captain. She couldn't be allowed to fail, or to be too radical, or else it could easily be interpreted as "because she's a woman". So then they have a completely alien scenario and try to shoe-horn a prototypical Starfleet captain into it. At times they seemed to write that into the character, which was interesting, but a bit awkward as it was the 24th century and nobody was supposed to give a crap about her gender so Janeway hinting at it being a source of pressure felt a bit forced.

Speaking of gender, that reminds me of that episode where they came across a three-gender society. Just talking about such things was pretty radical back then. Or was it Enterprise? Either way, it is incredibly disappointing to look at the new Star Trek trailer in light of the social commentary and philosophical exploration that the TV series were capable of.

[Rancid_Planet]

That's the fucking heart of the show. If the next show doesn't go that route then i wont be interested.

I mean I'll still watch and bitch about it of course.

[lotjx]

I do wonder in this outrage culture if they can do social commentary shows. I also worry about what that social commentary is. The producers said they designed Spock to be George W. Bush and Kirk to be Obama. They also had commentary in Into Darkness, but it was mostly terrorist this and should we bomb this planet for no reason. I would rather Star Trek just build characters in the first season and then do the commentary later. I just hope the characters they build are not cookie cutters. TNG and DS9 did a nice job of making characters that seem fresh and new. DS9 did an amazing job of taking what you thought a character was going to be an radically changed them around. I also kinda hope they do an anthology show that ties together. Season One, we deal with a new Enterprise crew, but the next seasons deal with the Klingons and the Romulans or a new race. Tie all together in season five or something. Trek is better when they push boundaries.

[Rancid_Planet]

Anthology show might not be a bad idea actually.

[The_Mike]

Did you get Spock and Kirk the other way round there?

[lotjx]

Did you get Spock and Kirk the other way round there?

Not that remember. I could be wrong. All I could think about was how stupid of an idea that was. Kirk and Spock are fucking Kirk and Spock.

[The_Mike]

Not that remember. I could be wrong. All I could think about was how stupid of an idea that was. Kirk and Spock are fucking Kirk and Spock.

So, despite the idea being stupid, it still makes sense to you that someone would say "let's have Spock be like George W. Bush"?

[lotjx]

So, despite the idea being stupid, it still makes sense to you that someone would say "let's have Spock be like George W. Bush"?

No. None of it made sense.

[sam_elmendorf]

So, despite the idea being stupid, it still makes sense to you that someone would say "let's have Spock be like George W. Bush"?

Where did he say that? He said it was stupid. And how did stupid translate to making sense?

[The_Mike]

No. None of it made sense.


Where did he say that? He said it was stupid. And how did stupid translate to making sense?

My point was that I was guessing lot just made a typo with regards to Obama and Bush, because of the well established connection between Obama and Spock in popular culture. Lot doesn't seem to think it's a typo and that they actually were saying that Spock was written to be like Bush.

[casselmm47]

No. None of it made sense.

That sums up Into Darkness as a whole.

I read an interview where Justin Lin pretty much said they're ignoring most of the BS STID introduced, like the cross-galaxy transporters and cure-the-dead Khan blood. Two movies into the revamped franchise, and the second movie is their 'Spock's Brain' entry.

[sam_elmendorf]

The ID:2 trailer and ST:Beyond trailer played before Star Wars and people cheered for both, but more for Beyond. Maybe it was just the excitement of seeing it on a big screen, but it made me want to see it even more then I did before.

[Atty]

That sums up Into Darkness as a whole.

I read an interview where Justin Lin pretty much said they're ignoring most of the BS STID introduced, like the cross-galaxy transporters and cure-the-dead Khan blood. Two movies into the revamped franchise, and the second movie is their 'Spock's Brain' entry.

That's not fair to Spock's Brian. Spock's Brain was much better than Into Darkness. Futuristic women with their man slaves, ion drives and superior everything. Damn fine world.

[Percussion]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXpPweAooeE

not much to discuss with little to no information out yet, but I'm still thoroughly excited for this

[Atty]

I'm already more excited for this than the current movies.

[Rancid_Planet]

FAR more excited for this.

[Percussion]

So the rumor mill is swirling pretty heavily with the idea that this will be a seasonal anthology ala American Horror Story, True Detective, etc. The first season will be set someone between Undiscovered Country and TNG. Open Universe after that.

Grain of salt and all that of course.

In the mean time, I've got a galactic boner.

[Rancid_Planet]

That's a tremendous idea. I'd love it.

[Chris]

New trailer for Star Trek: Beyond


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzWIGFiGrlA

Certainly better than the first trailer. It seems like the characters are split up but most have something to do, which would be a nice change if true. I'm still not excited by seeing the Enterprise wrecked yet again. Looks like the new ship is styled on the NX class from the Enterprise series.

[Ozanne]

Yeah I think at the end you can definitely see a ship like the NX-01, maybe they bring that back somehow?

[lotjx]

It looks better. Still hate seeing the Enterprise destroyed.

[casselmm47]

Maybe they drag the NX-01 out of mothballs.

[Percussion]

Early reviews looking solid. I'm pretty excited.

[Atty]

Love the early reviews. It's quite a relief after the last film.

[Seanny One Ball]

the last film was fucking good I don't care what you cunts say

[Percussion]

I liked it.

[Atty]

It would have be fine if it hadn't devolved into a point for point Wrath of Khan remake at the end.

Honestly, I think it would have been a better movie were he just some terrorist, not Khan and they avoided the whole cure for death thing at the end. I liked the first half of it a lot, but once they did the Khan reveal it fell apart for me.

[Seanny One Ball]

It wouldn't be much of a reboot if they didn't use the characters. I thought he was great. You couldn't replace him. The first Star Trek I thought was a bit boring.

[Beefy]

the last film was fucking good I don't care what you cunts say

It was rubbish. Insultingly bad.

[Seanny One Ball]

It was far from that, let's not get ahead of ourselves I mean it was hardly The Force Awakens. Zoe Saldana was the worst thing about it and Star Trek.