Guys WCW Dropped the Ball On [Archive]

UncannyIowan

August 29th, 2011, 5:40 PM

Jericho imo was not ready for anything bigger than maybe US title gold, the main event scene was too cluttered with guys drawing more than he was at the time. Jericho was in a similar boat like Austin was, only Austin was pretty much ready to be elevated it was just bad timing due to WCW's shit business and them wanting to bank on former WWF guys more than the talent that wasn't really drawing like they wanted them to.

Bret definitely was misused, the fact they tried to repeat the Montreal screwjob at their biggest ppv of all time really sucked the life out of everything Bret was. They should not have done that, and idk, part of me feels Bret being in WCW was just a way to get Bret the money Vince couldn't and to fuck WCW via some secret plan by Vince, Bret, and the WWE. Part of me feels like the Montreal Screwjob was the biggest work in the entire history of wrestling.....

WCW definitely dropped the ball on their World title scene, having Jeff Jarrett win the belt 70 times was not good business.

Badger

August 29th, 2011, 5:48 PM

I'm not suggesting they should've given him the World title or anything, but they could've used him better than just ripping the piss out of cruiserweights (as funny as it was).

EdgeHead469

August 29th, 2011, 5:50 PM

Jarrett was great. The storyline(s) he was involved in were better than anything they did with the nWo towards the end of their run.

I feel like Eddie, Benoit, Hart and Jericho all should have been pushed harder. Just look what happened to 3 of those 4 when they went to WWF/E.

Cewsh

August 29th, 2011, 6:00 PM

Booker T, Booker T, Booker T, Booker T, Booker T.

When people talk about how WCW never made new stars, he is the best possible example. Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio and Jericho all had some flaw you could point to to explain it, but with all of the resources in the world at their disposal, they 100% botched Booker's rise to the top. Fucking ridiculous.

Lane Storm is right there too. He became the hottest heel the company had had since the good NWO days, and they flushed it for no reason.

Pipkin

August 29th, 2011, 6:51 PM

Lane Storm is right there too. He became the hottest heel the company had had since the good NWO days, and they flushed it for no reason.
This is the correct answer.

However, I also think that Mike Awesome deserves mention. I don't think he was ever going to be a huge star, but he could have been much more if he had been treated differently. He was stuck as Kidman's sidekick for a while, he was the Fat Chick Thrilla and the 70s guy, and generally wasted for most of his tenure.

Cewsh

August 29th, 2011, 6:53 PM

It would have been the right answer if I had written Lance instead of Lane. :(

Jacknife

August 29th, 2011, 6:59 PM

Cewsh

August 29th, 2011, 7:02 PM

But they actually successfully made Page a star. His booking was actually fantastic.

Deewun

August 29th, 2011, 7:03 PM

Yeah, DDP is the only 100% success story for a homegrown talent in WCW, in my mind.

I have to mention poor Sid and his broken leg. What the fuck, WCW.

Also, the LWo was such an incredibly great storyline and idea, and it ended up having to get scrapped quickly, which was really unfortunate.

Cewsh

August 29th, 2011, 7:04 PM

The guy who recommended that?

None other than Johnny Ace.

EdgeHead469

August 29th, 2011, 7:05 PM

This is the correct answer.

However, I also think that Mike Awesome deserves mention. I don't think he was ever going to be a huge star, but he could have been much more if he had been treated differently. He was stuck as Kidman's sidekick for a while, he was the Fat Chick Thrilla and the 70s guy, and generally wasted for most of his tenure.

Mike Awesome was great!

JRSlim21

August 29th, 2011, 7:14 PM

All of the aforementioned, and of course for shits & giggles, Shockmaster.

EdgeHead469

August 29th, 2011, 7:24 PM

Basically, my list goes as is:
Eddie
Rey
Jericho
Mike Awesome
Benoit
Hart

Funny thing is, all these guys were top-tier performers in WWE, with the exception of Awesome!

lotjx

August 29th, 2011, 7:37 PM

I am going to say Sting. Crow Sting was amazing and I would argue as hot as any face was in all of wrestling. Yet, his match with Hogan was a fucking disaster and then when he finally got over the Hogan hump, they have him lost it to an injured Savage on a random Nitro. He was never the same after that. He had Bret Hart right there to feud which would have been a great money match.

WCW's giant problem is they fucked up no brainers. Bret Hart fighting for the title around Wrestlemania, no brainer. Sting going over Hogan clean, no brainer. Jericho vs. Goldberg, no brainer. Ending the NWO after Hogan finally loses the title, no brainer. Benoit vs. Bret for the title in 1998, no brainer. Not letting a wrestler book matches, giant fucking no brainer especially if said wrestling is going to end the biggest thing you have going for his own ego. In all actuality, they either needed to let Bischoff alone or find someone who didn't piss off the corporate brass and still knew how to put on an average show that didn't eat money.

Defrost

August 29th, 2011, 7:39 PM

Guys WCW Dropped the Ball On

All of them. It's why they don't exist anymore.

toady

August 29th, 2011, 7:44 PM

Not letting a wrestler book matches, giant fucking no brainer especially if said wrestling is going to end the biggest thing you have going for his own ego.

Nash wasn't booking at that time.

It's why they don't exist anymore.
Dr Cox - Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong - YouTube

Jimmy Zero

August 29th, 2011, 7:46 PM

I'm probably alone on this one, but I really liked Vampiro when he first debuted, before all that stupid Misfits stuff. If I remember right, he wasn't particularly great in the ring, but I still think they could have done a better job with him.

Big

August 29th, 2011, 8:32 PM

Austin, HHH, and Foley.

lotjx

August 29th, 2011, 8:44 PM

Austin and Foley, yes. HHH, no. HHH happened to be the guy standing next to Shawn when everyone else left for Nitro. If Nash or Hall or Waltman stayed they would be in DX and seen as the co-leader instead of Hunter. HHH showed little or nothing in WCW while Austin and Foley were having great matches on the card against quality guys.

JoJo the rabid monkey

August 29th, 2011, 11:21 PM

Austin's is notable for how bewildering it was. The guy was putting on incredible matches with Ricky Steamboat and then out of nowhere they decide the thing to do is have Jim Duggan beat him in about 35 seconds.

OD50

August 30th, 2011, 4:27 AM

Yeah, both Steve Austin and Brian Pillman could have been HUGE for WCW.

Pillman was amazing in the Hollywood Blondes and then Dusty breaks them up without reason and turns Brian into some super bland, California surfer face character. Austin was awesome too, his US title matches with Badd, Sting and especially The Dragon were great.

Everyone should watch WCW Spring Stampede 1994, it's kind of the apex of what WCW was about before Hogan and his buddies came on board.

Johnny B. Badd vs. DDP
Brian Pillman vs. Steven/William Regal (TV title)
Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne vs. Nasty Boyz (Chicago Street Fight/tag-team title)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Bunkhouse Buck (Bunkhouse Brawl)
Steve Austin vs. The Great Muta (US title)
Vader vs. The Boss/Big Boss Man
Sting vs. Rick Rude (International World title)
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (WCW World title)

:yum:

Actually, most early/mid 90's WCW cards had some really strong wrestling on them. Watched Superbrawl III (1993) the other day and I loved it. Dustin Rhodes/Maxx Payne was the weakest match on the card but it was still definitely watchable. Ric Flair making his WCW return after being in the WWF for two years was great to see too. The (Asheville, NC) crowd goes wild for Flair of course. Chris Benoit vs. 2 Cold Scorpio was the show stealer. Scorpio wins at 19:59 in a twenty minut time limit affair. Great ending in a great match.

Rant over. I just really love WCW/JCP pre Hogan era.

Austin's is notable for how bewildering it was. The guy was putting on incredible matches with Ricky Steamboat and then out of nowhere they decide the thing to do is have Jim Duggan beat him in about 35 seconds.

More like 10 seconds. :\

Mills

August 31st, 2011, 3:26 AM

I remember that ppv when it was on WWE Classics. Such a phenominal ppv, up there with 2005 summerslam for me

humanimal

August 31st, 2011, 5:40 AM

Raven - although his own personal issues probably did more to hold him back than any politics did

mr sabu

September 2nd, 2011, 1:09 AM

la parka

nz19

September 2nd, 2011, 3:35 AM

The main guys they dropped the ball on are

1) Ultimate Warrior - yeah I know what everyone thinks but for fuck sake they could have made so much money

2) Macho Man Randy Savage - what a legend who simply didn't do anything close to what his WWF career was, and became a shell of himself

3) Shane Helms and Lash Leroux - both these guys were awesome at the time and instead of getting a character and backing it up with storylines, it was painful to watch them at times

4) A guy named Robbie V - today known as Rob Van Dam, and in wCw that is just about the only place he never had a big push, and sure he was young at the time but what a mistake

MichaelC

September 2nd, 2011, 9:43 AM

The guy who recommended that?

None other than Johnny Ace.

Just the Sid leg break incident. Or did he do the LwO or DDP too?

Because you know, Johnny Ace coming up with the spot which BROKE SID'S LEG can't be repeated enough.

Cewsh

September 2nd, 2011, 9:50 AM

Just the leg break, I think. He was only in WCW for a year or so before it ended.

MichaelC

September 2nd, 2011, 10:03 AM

He basically BROKE Sid's leg.

What a sod.

Chandler

September 2nd, 2011, 10:21 AM

3) Shane Helms and Lash Leroux - both these guys were awesome at the time and instead of getting a character and backing it up with storylines, it was painful to watch them at times

I don't think they dropped the ball with Shane Helms. He was recieving a pretty good push for several months before WCW was purchased.

I agree with Lash Leroux. I liked the guy for some reason, obviously no main eventer but he had some entertaining matches with a bulk of the cruiserweight division.

RuneEdge

September 2nd, 2011, 10:24 AM

Everyone should watch WCW Spring Stampede 1994, it's kind of the apex of what WCW was about before Hogan and his buddies came on board.

Johnny B. Badd vs. DDP
Brian Pillman vs. Steven/William Regal (TV title)
Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne vs. Nasty Boyz (Chicago Street Fight/tag-team title)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Bunkhouse Buck (Bunkhouse Brawl)
Steve Austin vs. The Great Muta (US title)
Vader vs. The Boss/Big Boss Man
Sting vs. Rick Rude (International World title)
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (WCW World title)

:yum:
Nice. Need to download that from somewhere now. :yes:

Motherboy

September 2nd, 2011, 12:22 PM

Page's booking was great. He doesn't belong in this thread.

I'd say Booker falls in the category of guys they didn't give the ball to soon enough. Once he was main event, he kind of stayed main event. He was out with an injury for a portion of WCW's final days, too.

Steiner was a homegrown star, as was Goldberg. They definitely dropped the ball with Goldberg after he won the title, or even as he won the title, since that should have been on PPV. And afterward, they seemed to have no idea what to do with him.

I don't care what anyone says, Raven was exactly the type of hip, in-touch character WCW needed near the main event. He also would have been a much-needed non-NWO heel.

The Radicalz go without saying, though I was never really sold on Saturn as a singles guy and Dean Malenko got a lot of TV time as the cruiserweight standard-bearer.

Rey Mysterio Jr., Bret Hart, Rick Martel and even Bobby Eaton all come to mind. Though Martel's head just wasn't in wrestling at the point, so I guess they can't be blamed. And Eaton certainly wasn't a main-event talent, but more could have been done with him. Even just having him out there on Nitro making guys look great.

CURT HENNIG. It still baffles me how they didn't see the star in this guy, though maybe he had some personal issues I'm not aware of.

Macho Man is a definite. Barry Windham, too.

I want to say Konnan, since WCW had a pretty big hispanic following. He got a lot of TV time, but he was never doing much of anything.

EDIT: *sigh* I named Bobby Eaton purely from what I've heard during shoot interviews and from wrestlers talking about him as though he was a saint and an in-ring god. I don't know that much personally. I always mean to get some Eaton matches, but I don't even know where to go for that. I felt I should note this.

Oh, and the Nasty Boys named that Payne/Cactus match as one of their favorites and a pre-cursor to American hardcore wrestling. I've been meaning to dig that guy up, too. They said Payne didn't do much, but he didn't need to with Cactus around.

Cewsh

September 2nd, 2011, 12:28 PM

Booker was main event when anybody could be a fucking main eventer at the end. It didn't mean anything.

Motherboy

September 2nd, 2011, 12:41 PM

That's true. He was more than over enough in '98 to be a big anti-NWO player. Not that the nWo should have existed by that point anyway.

EDIT: OOOOOOOH YES. Alex Wright should have been a mainstay of the US title division.

Alex Wright On The Mic - YouTube

Cewsh

September 2nd, 2011, 1:14 PM

Also, if you want Bobby Eaton, watch some Midnight Express matches.

UncannyIowan

September 2nd, 2011, 1:21 PM

I know people say WCW dropped the ball with Goldberg and I do somewhat agree and disagree (imagine that right?).

I don't think having him beat Hogan for the belt on Nitro in Atlanta in front of a sold out crowd was a mistake, especially when you think about how many huge matches have been given away since the Monday Night Wars begin all the way to present time. The problem was the timing, Goldberg v. Hogan would've been great to headline the upcoming ppv, only problem was the upcoming ppv was Hogan/Rodman v. DDP/Malone. So Goldberg gets nWo Hollywood's Curt Hennig, who hadn't recaptured his Mr. Perfect days since returning to the ring and was pretty much considered a midcarder who didn't belong in a World title match (I remember a rumor that Hennig actually had that he was supposed to win or wrestle for the title at least once in his contract, there you go Mr. Hennig).

Next ppv, same shit with the main event, only this time Goldberg is the outcast in an nWo battle royal that sees him win....Cool, not as big of a negative only the fact that the battle royal lasted a whopping 4 minutes. He's not even featured at Fall Brawl, has the lovely DDP/Goldberg Havoc main event none of us saw that night on ppv lol, he's not featured again at WW3, and finally loses the belt to Kevin Nash (who regardless what people say was not booking and was right up there in popularity with Goldberg).

As awesome as Goldberg was, IMHO he's only been properly booked a few times, if that. Plus after he won the belt he started getting a big ego, became difficult to work with, so who knows if his path was all WCW's doing or a mixture. I just remember when he came to the WWE, he had those 2 solid matches with Rock and Jericho, but Goldberg came to the 'E at the wrong time, when they were making sure we all knew Triple H was the greatest wrestler alive (even in those nifty shorts).

MichaelC

September 2nd, 2011, 1:22 PM

Booker T's booking getting into the main event in 2000 is a big reason I was unable to take him seriously as a top talent for years.

MichaelC

September 2nd, 2011, 1:24 PM

Hennig and Goldberg had a great match. However, it was a 10 minuter on Nitro in October 1999, and not the PPV match a year earlier.

No one remembers the Nitro match, sadly.

UncannyIowan

September 2nd, 2011, 1:44 PM

I didn't think Goldberg had a compelling feud from the first one with Mongo all the way until he came to the WWE and feuded with The Rock and Jericho. SADLY, the Jericho feud did not last very long and while the Triple H feud lasted pretty much throughout the summer into Winter, I felt Goldberg never looked strong in that feud at all. Even when he finally beat Triple H, I think the WWE booked him all wrong and that could've very well been Bill's fault too because he said working for the WWE was the worst time in his career....That sucks.

Motherboy

September 2nd, 2011, 11:31 PM

Booker T's booking getting into the main event in 2000 is a big reason I was unable to take him seriously as a top talent for years.

Winning the belt from Jarrett, who I don't think the fans ever really saw as a legit main-event guy, didn't do much to build Booker T. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Jarrett, but all he did in WCW was call people slapnuts and hang out with the heat voids known as the Harris Brothers.

Still, when I turned on Nitro the night after Bash at the Beach and saw Booker was champion, I marked out. I really felt, at the time, that WCW was turning a corner and finally making some good decisions.

OD50

September 4th, 2011, 5:34 AM

Booker should have been a main eventer by 1998. He was one of the best workers in WCW and super over after the Benoit series, same with Scott Steiner. Watch Steiner/Goldberg from that Nitro in 1998, it's like the most heated match ever. This was clearly what the fans wanted to be their main eventers, not Hogan/Flair/Sting/Sid Vicious/Savage/Nash.

I feel the top of the card in WCW from 1998 and onwards should have been Goldberg, Booker, Steiner, Benoit and Jericho. Maybe throw in The Giant, Rey Jr. and Eddie G in there. Instead they kept on going with the same old battered guys in the main events until fans lost interest.

Cewsh

September 4th, 2011, 12:06 PM

I really don't think Benoit belonged there at all.

I understand that silent but serious was always his gimmick but he really was never over enough to warrant that kind of run until he finally earned it in WWE after learning a lot about promos and character. Same with Rey and, frankly, Eddie. They weren't ready for that. I'm on the fence about Jericho. He certainly should have been around there if not, perhaps, a credible top guy.

DDT

September 4th, 2011, 12:38 PM

OD50 was just saying that after his best of seven series with Benoit, Booker was over, not both of them. Unless you're responding to a different point entirely that I missed.

OD50

September 4th, 2011, 12:43 PM

Well I did say that maybe Benoit could have been one of the WCW main eventers too, along with Goldberg, Steiner, Booker etc. Benoit, Rey, Eddie and Jericho were all very over for being mid-carders. Problem was that neither of them was allowed to advance any further because of the glass ceiling being made out of concrete in WCW.

Maybe they weren't over enough at the time, but I feel they could have been if pushed correctly. Rey was over like a mother fucker during his unmasked giant killer run where he beat Bigelow, Norton and Kevin Nash three weeks in a row.

OD50

September 4th, 2011, 1:00 PM

Hennig and Goldberg had a great match. However, it was a 10 minuter on Nitro in October 1999, and not the PPV match a year earlier.

No one remembers the Nitro match, sadly.

They had an instant rematch on the Monday Nitro following their BATB match too. Poor Curt was totally squashed two nights in a row. Curt was spanked in 3:50 at the Bash and in 1:20 on Nitro the following night. :(

Can't recall watching their 10 minute 1999 match though.

Cewsh

September 4th, 2011, 1:00 PM

OD50 was just saying that after his best of seven series with Benoit, Booker was over, not both of them. Unless you're responding to a different point entirely that I missed.

I was responding to his list of who the main eventers should have been.

Well I did say that maybe Benoit could have been one of the WCW main eventers too, along with Goldberg, Steiner, Booker etc. Benoit, Rey, Eddie and Jericho were all very over for being mid-carders. Problem was that neither of them was allowed to advance any further because of the glass ceiling being made out of concrete in WCW.

I wonder why people assume that that's the ONLY reason they weren't able to make it. Like people just sort of automatically assume that since they didn't become main eventers they must have been held down. But other guys during that time DID break the glass ceiling to one degree or another. Goldberg, Steiner, Bagwell, Page, and, frankly, Benoit. You could say it comes down to friends and politics and maybe so, but it also comes down to whether or not these guys were the right sort of performers to make it to the main event. In wrestling it has never been about just in ring prowess or, frankly, overness. Its whether you have the skill set to be able to take advantage of the opportunity, and if I had been running WCW back then, there's no way I take that chance with Mysterio (who was too small, had not grown into his charisma, had no real character, was and still is one of the worst talkers for his spot on the card), Guerrero (godawful look, not really there with promos yet, wants to play heel despite there being no room for non NWO heels at the top, botched his run with Flair), or Benoit (worst promo to ever exist).

People do this a lot, where they sort of expect the people best at wrestling, or just young people they like to eventually rise to the main event, but for a lot of those guys that's not where their value to WCW was ever going to lie. Especially for dudes like Saturn who have no fucking business in this conversation at all.

Maybe they weren't over enough at the time, but I feel they could have been if pushed correctly. Rey was over like a mother fucker during his unmasked giant killer run where he beat Bigelow, Norton and Kevin Nash three weeks in a row.

What is "booked correctly" though? They were hired to be electrifying opening matches, to keep fans glued to their seats between story developments. Frankly, they were all booked rather masterfully for what was intended for them.

OD50

September 4th, 2011, 1:03 PM

Man, who mentioned Saturn? He was always shit.

Cewsh

September 4th, 2011, 1:04 PM

His name always gets lumped in with the other dudes for some reason. Because of the Radicals, I assume.

He really was awful.

Mills

September 4th, 2011, 1:26 PM

I loved Saturn. What a man

OD50

September 4th, 2011, 1:29 PM

He was decent as a thug in Raven's Flock where he didn't really wrestle all that often, mostly just looked mean, other than that yeah, not very good at all. I hated his feud with Jericho where he wore a dress and make-up.

ECDUB

September 4th, 2011, 1:47 PM

Eddie didn't really come into his own promo wise until the "Latino Heat" gimmick in WWE.

Jericho's microphone skills are hard to deny. Jericho basically created feuds with Goldberg and Malenko without them actually involved. WCW never did anything with the Goldberg/Jericho potential feud but look at this huge pop Jericho helped Dean Malenko get.

Humongous Pop in WCW - Slamboree 1998 - YouTube

Cewsh

September 4th, 2011, 2:01 PM

Jericho's issues are definitely not promo based. But I don't believe he had it in him to play a serious character until much, much later.

mth

September 4th, 2011, 3:30 PM

I loved Saturn. What a man

:yes: Saturn is awesome. Great wrestler? Not really but I enjoyed him in the ring and all his characters/gimmicks and respect him for overcoming his demons.

satanicsurfer

September 4th, 2011, 4:11 PM

I was responding to his list of who the main eventers should have been.

I wonder why people assume that that's the ONLY reason they weren't able to make it. Like people just sort of automatically assume that since they didn't become main eventers they must have been held down. But other guys during that time DID break the glass ceiling to one degree or another. Goldberg, Steiner, Bagwell, Page, and, frankly, Benoit. You could say it comes down to friends and politics and maybe so, but it also comes down to whether or not these guys were the right sort of performers to make it to the main event. In wrestling it has never been about just in ring prowess or, frankly, overness. Its whether you have the skill set to be able to take advantage of the opportunity, and if I had been running WCW back then, there's no way I take that chance with Mysterio (who was too small, had not grown into his charisma, had no real character, was and still is one of the worst talkers for his spot on the card), Guerrero (godawful look, not really there with promos yet, wants to play heel despite there being no room for non NWO heels at the top, botched his run with Flair), or Benoit (worst promo to ever exist).

People do this a lot, where they sort of expect the people best at wrestling, or just young people they like to eventually rise to the main event, but for a lot of those guys that's not where their value to WCW was ever going to lie. Especially for dudes like Saturn who have no fucking business in this conversation at all.

What is "booked correctly" though? They were hired to be electrifying opening matches, to keep fans glued to their seats between story developments. Frankly, they were all booked rather masterfully for what was intended for them.

I agree about the comments about Eddie, Benoit, and Rey. They didn't really polish their image and mic skills til years later in WWE. I'm for the most part a casual fan, and I didn't like them til they stepped up their game and improved on the areas that they were lacking in

Glen

September 4th, 2011, 6:53 PM

Alex Wright, forgot about him. From what I remember he was pretty solid in the ring. I doidn't understand the Berlyn thing either.

You could make a case for Goldberg too. The guy was on a hot streak and they give away his big win over Hogan on free TV. Then he ended up losing the title and they then had that Godawful storyline on Nitro the following night with him "stalking" Elizabeth and of course the fingerpoke of doom.

Just want to highlight that the Goldberg "free" title win was in Atlanta, if I remember correctly (Goldberg's home) and it was an obscenely large crowd that went fucking spare for him, and the win, making GREAT TV and I thought it was a great idea. They didn't lose business from this idea, I think they gained it.

Glen

September 4th, 2011, 7:00 PM

3) Shane Helms and Lash Leroux - both these guys were awesome at the time and instead of getting a character and backing it up with storylines, it was painful to watch them at times

Shane was getting a huge push in 2000 actually.

One must remember, saying stuff about some of the undercard guys like AJ et al is pointelss as they weren't in the company two minutes before it folded. It takes years to get some guys over.

Cewsh

September 4th, 2011, 7:14 PM

Just want to highlight that the Goldberg "free" title win was in Atlanta, if I remember correctly (Goldberg's home) and it was an obscenely large crowd that went fucking spare for him, and the win, making GREAT TV and I thought it was a great idea. They didn't lose business from this idea, I think they gained it.

In fairness, that had been a sell out crowd before that match was even announced, so the match had nothing to do with that.

Not stealing away from your point, just putting it in context.

Glen

September 4th, 2011, 7:26 PM

I'm not saying the match had anything to do with the gate. I'm saying that the amount of times they replayed that segment and used it in montages and the subsequent angle made them money. If it had been on PPV, I'm sure it would have drawn big, but the buzz that it created from it being on TV also added to their Monday Night War numbers, and probably made them more money in the long run. I really loved that they did it on TV.

The Law

April 2nd, 2013, 11:48 PM

Wanted to bump this thread because I didn't see it when it was originally posted. It's staggering how many guys they misused over the years. Over the course of its history WCW had almost every single big name in the business. The only guy they never had was Shawn Michaels. Here's my list

-Bret Hart (Face/heel revolving door. No meaningful feuds for months and months)
-Steve Austin (Hogan's fault. Went from being a near main eventer to jobbing to Jim Duggan in ten seconds)
-Undertaker (Mean Mark Callous)
-Triple H (Terra Ryzing)
-Scott Hall (first time. No push)
-Kevin Nash (first time. Vinny Vegas and Oz)
-Mick Foley (Blew the Vader feud with the "Lost in Cleveland" angle. Pissed him off so much he turned down hundreds of thousands of dollars to leave.)
-Booker T (should have been in the main event by the end of 1998)
-Goldberg (Hottest thing on the planet in mid-1998. Bigger than Austin. Totally screwed up his title run)
-Chris Jericho (Main event level reactions in 1998. Should have worked with Goldberg at Fall Brawl. Unfortunately, Nash and company got in Goldberg's ear and convinced him he shouldn't be working with Jericho)
-Chris Benoit (Waited far too long to get him into the main event)
-The Four Horsemen in 1998 (Brought them back in a huge and emotional moment...then proceeded to have them get crapped by on the NWO)
-Sting (Screwed him over against Hogan, then took the title off him too soon)
-Eddie Guerrero
-Rey Mysterio (Unmasked him. Turned him heel)
-The entire Cruiserweight division (Fuck Vince Russo)
-Lance Storm (Made him a star. Then his push evaporated)
-Mike Awesome (Fat Chick Thriller. That 70s Guy)
-Scott Steiner (Waited too long to push him. Should have been elevated as soon as he turned heel. Instead he didn't get the title until 2000)
-Bam Bam Bigelow (Came in, attacked Goldberg, everyone marked out. And then...)
-Sean Waltman (This is probably mostly because of his personal issues)
-Blitzkrieg (No idea what happened to this guy)
-Wrath (Jobbed him out to Nash on Nitro when he was building up a lot of momentum with a winning streak. No pay-off to months of wins on TV)
-Raven (His drug use probably caused a lot of this. Still, his push just kind of went away after he lost to Goldberg)
-Randy Savage (How many times did Hogan fuck him over? Never held the title longer than two months. Joined the NWO and played third fiddle to Hogan, Hall, and Nash)
-Roddy Piper (Beat Hogan at Starrcade 1996...in a non-title match. Which wasn't announced as a non-title match. Everyone thought he'd won the title. First major sign that things weren't going to work out. Should have won the title and then dropped it back to Hogan at Superbrawl)
-Curt Hennig (Never game him the push he deserved)

Seriously it's a massive list. I think the list of guys they used correctly would honestly be shorter. I seriously loved WCW back in the day and enjoy watching their shows now, but they seriously wasted more talent than you would think possible.

Mills

April 3rd, 2013, 1:02 AM

A lot of those can be attributed to a single fact, they couldn't create stars. Look at that list, how many were true homegrown stars? 3? 4? They couldnt create stars to fightthe big name stars they bought from WWF

G-Fresh

April 3rd, 2013, 10:51 PM

ICP

Zacharie

April 3rd, 2013, 11:21 PM

Mills

April 3rd, 2013, 11:26 PM

WHAT. WCW had everything going in their direction to go far with Bret but used him terribly. This is a huge star that they rolled out as a special referee then in a throwaway match with Bryan Adams. WCW could only blame WCW for misusing Bret

The Law

April 3rd, 2013, 11:59 PM

It was probably kind of difficult to pull an effective Bret Hart run after Vince made sure to take a dump all over Bret's career on the way out. Back then he was just known as the guy who got screwed really bad, unfortunately.

Yeah, that's totally wrong. Bret had a huge amount of sympathy from the Montreal incident. Also, he was a five-time WWF champion and one of the greatest, most famous wrestlers in the world. They could have brought him in as either a babyface (based on his Montreal sympathy and natural charisma) or heel (based on his being a WWF guy and his recent anti-American character) and succeeded. Instead, they did everything wrong. They waited a month to have him show up on TV, brought him in without any real storyline, put him in the midcard instead of the main event, and then jerked him around between heel and face repeatedly. If they had just brought him in and stuck with either a face or heel character and given him some decent storylines, he would have gotten over.

Zacharie

April 5th, 2013, 1:43 AM

Yeah, I understand what you guys are saying. I'm only going off of my perspective as a fan when it all went down. From what I remember, I didn't give a shit about what Bret did after the screw job. I was more interested in the direction of Vince's character and DX. I think everyone was. IMO, Vince screwing an employee would have overshadowed any kind of debut Bret would have done in WCW. If he showed up as the unAmerican, who are his enemies exactly when the NWO is running around as a top American heel group? If he went in and based his character off of Montreal, how does him garnering sympathy help him in an era that's known for attitude and competition? I think either one of those ideas would have fell flat.

Mills

April 5th, 2013, 2:49 AM

If you were screwed over by your boss in front of millions of people, someone would feel awful for you

chatty

April 5th, 2013, 3:44 AM

They sort of made really good and really bad mistakes at the same time, getting over all the big name guys elevated them to the number one show but to do that they basically had to give some of them creative control which initially wasn't a bad thing as they were massively over but as they got staler and new guys needed elevating or more TV time, well they were stopped because its natural for guys to book themselves and their buddies at the top.

Austin - was ready to step up but was held down by the main event posse - jumped ship and became the biggest star in wrestling.

Foley - much the same as Austin, was held down when he could have been hanging around the main event scene. Didn't even need to be champion, just a guy who would compete with the big boys.

Jericho - Again another who didn't need pushing as a champion or a main player but elevating him to upper mid-card status with the odd title challenge thrown in would have been the right move to make with him. Can't really say they screwed the Goldberg feud up as Goldberg simply refused to do the angle.

Benoit - I thought he did alright in WCW, they gave him the title when he was a no name, he was a great worker but he wasn't your big name superstar. He should have been in that scene, which he was so can't see how they did that bad on his part.

Eddie - Eddies WCW career was pretty damn good considerig he was a drug addict for a lot of the time. He was booked in good mid-card feuds with Jericho, Rey and Chavo and was made the leader of the LWO. He was a quality worker but wasn't a main event player by no means. He wasn't for years after he jumped ship.

Hart, Dibiase, Rude, Perfect, Savage - a list of big name stars that jumped over and they never really seemed to do anything worthwhile with. Could have used all these guys so much better - theres probably more as well.

Booker T - waited too long to push him to the top. They basically gave him the title after anyone he could have got a good rub of had left.

DDP -was booked well,

Goldberg - sort of dropped the ball after the chase but tbf they done a great job of pushing Goldberg as an unstoppable monster face.

The Rogerer

April 5th, 2013, 5:08 AM

Montreal was an absolute gift to WCW and Bret. They could have really worked with that momentum.

Rip

April 5th, 2013, 7:44 AM

It was probably kind of difficult to pull an effective Bret Hart run after Vince made sure to take a dump all over Bret's career on the way out. Back then he was just known as the guy who got screwed really bad, unfortunately.

Can I put forward that from now until the end of time anytime someone TOTALLY misses the point we call it 'Doing a Zacharie'?

WizoOzz

April 5th, 2013, 9:00 AM

They missed the boat on Bret 100%. You're talking about a multi-time champion, one of the best technical wrestlers to have ever been in a WWE ring, and guy who for all intents and purposes was the face of the company during the steroid trial. He had a ton that should have been utilized, but just wasn't. You could tell where it was going by the fact that his first notable appearance for WCW was during the totally blown Hogan/Sting match.

Jericho was a huge blown opportunity. He was massively over, you had a natural feud with Goldberg brewing, and he was one of the best heels, even if it was mostly comedic execution.

And I'm going to go against popular opinion and say that Austin woud have just continued to floundered in midcard hell in WCW. Foley, too. Austin's career only took off *because* he was fired, Foley to a certain extent also. Without them being fired, that fire wouldn't have been lit under their asses to become what they became.