A Song of Ice and Fire (Books 1 through 5 Discussion) (SPOILERS)

[Judas Iscariot]

Right, so the TV thread really has devolved into a bunch of nerds who've read the books going on with themselves, myself included, even though I'm only a couple hundred pages into Book 2.

So I figured I'd start up a book discussion thread, especially since volume 17 or whatever is coming out soon, to clean up the TV series thread a bit so it could focus on that and this thread can focus on the novels, since apparently a bunch of geeks on here have read them.

I don't know about the lot of you, but I feel everything in here ought to be clearly spoil tagged as well since folks such as Miotch and myself have just started to get rolling along with the books (Mitch moreso than myself, the bastard), and doubtless there are others who might be in the middle of the series and want to talk about the books without getting things ruined BECAUSE EVERY CHAPTER IS AN ATTITUDE ERA SWERVE.

I guess talk about how the show relates to the pertinent volume can stick around in the TV thread, but it has devolved a tad into a spoiler tag fest without a ton of talk about the actual episodes, which have been fantastic.

So here's a thread to freak out about the books, I guess, and the 17th one that's about to come out. I miss the books sub-forum on here, but I know no one read anymore.

Maybe this thread'll actually work, maybe it won't. MAYBE it'll be the springboard that creates a books sub-forum like the Listening Room, where the literate can gather together, I don't know.

The only thing I know is this:

Winter is coming. And Joffrey is a little cunt.

[Judas Iscariot]

Actually, if a mod could change the thread title from Game of Thrones to "A Song of Ice and Fire," that'd be ace. My bad, yo.

[Alf]

Lovely stuff.

I'm re-reading A Storm Of Swords at the mo. Loving it.

Just read the bit about the Knight Of The Laughing Tree in a Bran chapter again... and on first read I thought it was talking about Howland Reed. But just now I think it must be Lyanna... and there's a bit where the King sents Rhaegar to find out who it is but 'all he finds is the shield blarh'.

To me it seems that Rhaegar went to find the night, found out it was Lyanna, and that's where their love-story begins... the next day he gives her the blue flower in front of his wife.

What do you reckon?

Also, it talks about The Wild Wolf, the she-wolf, the quiet wolf and the young pup wolf. I'm guessing the wild wolf is Brandon, she wolf is Lyanna, quiet wolf is Eddard... so who is the young pup? Benjen?

And who is the girl with the purple eyes who the quiet wolf was too shy to talk to?

[Alf]

Actually just read up on it... more spoilers from Storm of Swords and some wild theories...

And it appears to be Ashara Dayne...

Ok. So Ned and Ashara meet at Harrenhall. Fall in love.

Rhaegar and Lyanna meet and fall in love. They run away together. Rickard and Brandon go to KL, and get whacked. War kicks off.

Ned marries Cat in Bran's stead...

Rhaegar and Lyanna have a kiddy wink...

Now... this is where it gets interesting... so, we know Ashara 'apparently' offed herself...

What if she didn't? What if Rhaegar and Lyanna had twins... what if Ashara was given one to protect it and she legs it over the narrow sea. What if Ned takes the other one to winterfell as his bastard.

We know that after The Tower Of Joy Ned boogies down to Dorne, we know that Edric Dayne and Jon Snow had the same wet nurse. We know Ashara's body was never recovered...

...boomLOST

Added to that... if Ashara offed herself because she was so gutted about Ned and/or about Arthur getting whacked... why would her relative name their kid 'after' him then? Ned, Eddard, Edric, Ned...

[lotjx]

Do we really need spoiler tags with the words spoilers on the thread title? I am asking, because I want to jump right into this thing, but don't want another uptight mod email that I'll just ignore. So, who else thinks its going to come down to a big fight in book 6 and book 7 is the clean-up one?

[Pablo Diablo]

We need spoiler tags because there are people in here who haven't read all the books. This is just separate from the TV one. You'll still need to put spoiler tags and label how far along a spoiler it is.

[lotjx]

Fuck, well I am out.

[Pablo Diablo]

Is it really that hard to type [ spoiler ] [ / spoiler ] ?

Like I genuinely want to hear your thoughts on the books.

[Pete Cash]

ima gonna spoil everything do not press this button unless you have read everything


neds dead
robbs dead with his wolfs head sewn onto his
aryas blind
sansa gets molested
littlefinger is behind it all
catelyns a zombie
the king slayer has one hand
joffrey dies
renly dies
balon greyjoy dies


heheheh resist that

[Pete Cash]

oh yeah another spoiler the books are written by a fat paedophile

[Pete Cash]

Actually just read up on it... more spoilers from Storm of Swords and some wild theories...

And it appears to be Ashara Dayne...

Ok. So Ned and Ashara meet at Harrenhall. Fall in love.

Rhaegar and Lyanna meet and fall in love. They run away together. Rickard and Brandon go to KL, and get whacked. War kicks off.

Ned marries Cat in Bran's stead...

Rhaegar and Lyanna have a kiddy wink...

Now... this is where it gets interesting... so, we know Ashara 'apparently' offed herself...

What if she didn't? What if Rhaegar and Lyanna had twins... what if Ashara was given one to protect it and she legs it over the narrow sea. What if Ned takes the other one to winterfell as his bastard.

We know that after The Tower Of Joy Ned boogies down to Dorne, we know that Edric Dayne and Jon Snow had the same wet nurse. We know Ashara's body was never recovered...

...boomLOST

Added to that... if Ashara offed herself because she was so gutted about Ned and/or about Arthur getting whacked... why would her relative name their kid 'after' him then? Ned, Eddard, Edric, Ned...

I think talking about the R + L theory is fair game because it isn't spoilers it is speculation.

The one problem with the Jon Snow theory is it is so obvious that I fear GRRM is scared to use it. The two most obvious endings and the ones he favours are fantasy cliches Jons a secret targ and he does something about it which is the cliche of the hidden king or Dany takes back the throne which is a cliche as well when he has tried to avoid using standard cliches such as END OF BOOK ONE Neds downfall because in general fiction the guy who lives by an unrealistic and stupid morality system will win even with the handicap of his goodness. Which GRRM subverts by having Neds head cut off

I think we need to make a rule with spoilers. Should book one be fair game. They only came out like 15 years ago.

[Alf]

I totally agree Peter Crash.

It's all too obvious.

In a way it would be a good swerve if:


A simple serving girl (Wylla) was Jon's Ma.

Maybe Ned's shame is that Lyanna had a child with Rhaegar, and Ned himself killed it/ or herout of loyalty to Robert and to avoid family shame that his sisters is a dutty... that'd explain his 14 years of lies and guilt. That's how honourable he is.

[thetony]

I was personally thinking Book Two spoilers until the second season comes out. At that point it will almost be like, "If you haven't caught up on the the books by then, well, too bad.."

Also.. (major book two spoiler)

Just finished the part where Renly is slain by that vile sorceress Stannis uses (and Stannis himself?).

Renly could have used a better death IMO, but I'm guessing they're just showing off the red woman's abilities for future use. Just not Robb, please. :(

[lotjx]

It just makes no sense to do spoiler tags when the word spoilers is already in the thread. To be fair the last book came out 5 years ago, so if you haven't caught up then its your own fault. I read all four books within a month's time, they are big, but you can rip it through them.

I also figure alot of our spoilers are going to be guess work on John, the End, Dany and other stuff. Those are not spoilers, they are guesses. Tony, love the SOA shit and yeah that was done to show much of a BA she was.

[Judas Iscariot]

Right, but there are folks who didn't read them in 1996 or five years ago and probably never heard of them until the show piqued their interest, so there are likely more people in the middle of reading than there would be otherwise who'd want to talk about the books as they're happening without having to worry about what happens down the line.

Meanwhile guys who are ready for the next to come out in a month can speculate all their want without ruining anything for people catching up.

[lotjx]

Oh Jesus, its like seeing a hash house going in and then being told come in the back we have some hash just don't tell anyone. so its ok if I say I be this thing comes down to the Dragons vs. The Others at the Wall or do I need spoiler tags?

[Pete Cash]

So in a thread on star wars I would have to put spoilers that Luke is Vader son.

[Bad Collin]

I think some of these theories are only obvious because they have been discussed at such length by the community. I think it would be a shame if he didn't use the best possible ending just to subvert expectations.

[Alf]

Jesus christ lotjx, what is so difficult to understand about this?

People here are at different stages... some have only just started the first book, some are half way through the 2nd or 3rd, some have read all of it...

We don't want to spoil things for people. That would be really shit for them.

A lot of the theories also rely on information put together over the course of the books... so unless you want to talk very vaguely so as not to give anything away, it's best to just put it in spoiler tags.

And really... is that extra bit of work to put it in spoilers going to kill you? If so, don't post in this thread. Simple.

[Pete Cash]

I think some of these theories are only obvious because they have been discussed at such length by the community. I think it would be a shame if he didn't use the best possible ending just to subvert expectations.

It isn't about subverting expectation it is about subverting the genre. Which has been his obvious goal from day 1 besides getting amazingly fat and watching a lot of NFL.

He foreshadows a lot of stuff. Within like two chapters of a Game of Thrones you have a Dire Wolf and a Stag dead. He put all that PROMISE ME NED and the small folk loved Rhaegar and literally every character who thinks back on Rhaegar outside of Robert remember him in a positive light. Including Eddard. He put all that stuff in the book because he is foreshadowing something. It just may not be the most obvious thing Jon Snow is a secret targ

[Alf]

If anyone is arsed... there's a decent ASOIAF mod for Total War Medieval 2.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=721

It's quite badass.

[Alf]

Wowzer...

Storm Of Swords spoiler

I just read the...
Red Wedding bit again... fucking hell that's good stuff. Even though I knew what was going to happen I was still hoping it had all miraculously changed.

[Judas Iscariot]

Righto, so finishing up Book 2 by this weekend, just had this happen:


This motherfucker Theon has taken Winterfell, the motherfucker.

And yet, the son of a bitch that he is, I can understand him, being a ward of House Stark and returning home to find he's not welcome and trying to prove himself to his father.

That's the brilliant thing about these books: it's impossible not to view everything that happens through the character's eyes. Even the Lannisters, with all of their incest and shitheadedness, it's impossible not to think about Jaime's place in his father's eyes, Cersei's care for her child(ren) and the fact that Joffrey, little shit nugget that he is, it just a product of everything.

Regarding Sansa, I think she's the best character thus far embodying this. An innocent sheltered girl raised on songs of chivalry and the royal court only to find that songs don't really play out in the end, and yet she holds onto this obscene hope that things will work out like they do in the stories.

I went from thinking she's this stupid girl believing in fairy tales to thinking she's one of the biggest victims in everything because she is held hostage to those ideals.

I also love how the Hound, of all people, sort of gets the bullshit she's going through and has progressively become gentler towards her if not overtly, due to his relationship with his brother.

I'm hoping, and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T SPOIL IT FOR ME IF IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS IN THE NEXT COUPLE BOOKS OR EVEN IF IT DOESN'T, I DON'T WANT TO KNOW ANYTHING, but I'm hoping for a major face turn from The Hound. From the beginning he's known when bullshit's bullshit, and his character is developed to a point that it seems inevitable, but given the author's whims, God fucking knows what happens.

It's like this motherfucker pulls out every absurd soap opera twist imaginable, and somehow he makes it WORK. It's absurd.

Why hasn't WWE hired him to write their storylines? I mean, fuck, they'd be good and I'd watch again.

[Pete Cash]

I won't spoil it but there are a few face turns from certain characters to look forward to. If the character in question is one I shall not say.

EDIT (you can press this spoiler Judas it doesn't spoil anything you have read)

although I would say that the Hound is more of a tweener than a heel

[Alf]

This is a spoiler on face turns...

My favourite face turn is Jaime. I think he's a brilliant character.

[Pete Cash]

agreed ser alf

[Pablo Diablo]

Continuing.

It's such a big turn too. I mean this guy has thrown a kid out a window for fucks sake

Spoiler about the end of SoS and I suppose the beginning of AFfC.

One thing I don't get. Why did Tyrion say he killed Joffrey? Did I miss something?

[Zyphlin]

Spoiler through all 4 and speculation for 5

Jamie's face turn is rather great. I think the Hound moved from Heel early on, to Tweener pretty quickly, and he's sat at tweener. I buy into the notion that he's the gravedigger at the Quite Isles. I think we'll get some Sandor, no longer the Hound, in the later books for the full face turn and perhaps finally getting his own POV.

As to Tyrion...I believe he tells Jamie that because he's angry at his brother due to things told to him by Tywin, and thus throws it out there in an attempt to hurt Jamie

[thetony]

Just on the last few hundred pages of 'Clash of Kings' so I'm a tad hesitant about pressing ANY spoilers in here at the moment.

Theon has taken over Winterfell. Bran and Rickon have escaped his grasp and are missing. Cersei just kidnapped Tyrion's wench for collateral (knew that would happen..) over Rickon/Joff and shit's just getting real beyond the Wall with Jon.

Things are a bit intense.

[Judas Iscariot]

Haha, we're in the same exact place, tony.

What an assmunch that Theon turned out to be. Nearly a sisterfucker, too, the shit.

[thetony]

I have mixed feelings on how I perceive Theon in this book.

A part of me wants to feel for the guy, as he's been tossed from household to household only to be scorned by both sides almost equally. I know the Greyjoys can't trust him because he was a ward of the Starks for nearly all his childhood, but his reception during his return to the Iron Islands was absolutely brutal.

Another part of me hopes that Theon's character will turn out for the better, but right now that seems to be a bit of a long shot. All he seems to do is think with his cock, this one.

[Alf]

Continuing.

It's such a big turn too. I mean this guy has thrown a kid out a window for fucks sake

Spoiler about the end of SoS and I suppose the beginning of AFfC.

One thing I don't get. Why did Tyrion say he killed Joffrey? Did I miss something?

Yep, it's because Jaime confesses to Tyrion about Tysha (that she was genuine and not a whore paid for). But he instantly regrets saying it.

[Judas Iscariot]

I have mixed feelings on how I perceive Theon in this book.

A part of me wants to feel for the guy, as he's been tossed from household to household only to be scorned by both sides almost equally. I know the Greyjoys can't trust him because he was a ward of the Starks for nearly all his childhood, but his reception during his return to the Iron Islands was absolutely brutal.

Another part of me hopes that Theon's character will turn out for the better, but right now that seems to be a bit of a long shot. All he seems to do is think with his cock, this one.

I totally feel for Theon. Sent off as a hostage though better cared for than most wards even if he were reminded of his place. Never knew his family, comes back expecting to be welcomed and gets shit on. He's neither Greyjoy nor Stark and just looking to find his place in his father's eyes, much as Jaime.

Still a cocksmoker, though, but another example of how when you think about it, even when you're dealing with dicks in these books they have real reasons, and are they really even dicks at all?

[Zyphlin]

Why not to make it simple for people who are confused we just put the highest number book it spoils?

So if you're spoiling GOT put 1 above the spoiler. COK's a 2. SOS a 3. AFFC a 4. And a 5 for Dance once its out.

If its speculation, not necessarily a spoiler, I'd say put the latest book out since if you're speculating about Random Character X's role in the 5th book when someone's still reading the 2nd, they are then spoiled that said character will be alive which god knows isn't a given in Martin's books.

Makes it rather simple and easy for people wondering what's under the spoiler to know if they're safe to click it, and doesn't require all the various ways we're trying to indicate what's under them while trying not to spoil anything.

[lotjx]

How about instead doing spoiler tags for everything, we just have different subsections for each book. Like a Book I forum and so on. People complain there isn't enough for books to have their own forum, so there you go. We can get rid of these stupid spoiler tags and quit the bitching about what is and isn't a spoiler. One giant free for all for the subsections.

[Alf]

LOL Stupid spoiler tagz. lolz.

[Judas Iscariot]

BOOK SUBFORUM, YES, ALF LET'S MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

[Pete Cash]

Has the TV show mentioned that Jon Arryn was going to dump his son off with Stannis ??? because that is you know pretty important

[Alf]

Nope, I don't think that all comes out till Storm Of Swords does it?

Is it that important? I think Lysa would have always been Petyrs biatch... she would have offed Jon anyway I think. It just gave her an extra bit of motivation.

[Pete Cash]

Nope defo mentioned in a game of thrones because I believe the blackfish is like oh lord Jon wanted to send him off to dragonstone to be with stannis and cat said no it was tywin and they look confuses.

[Judas Iscariot]

Finished Book 2. Please don't spoil Book 3 as from what I understand book 3 is a whole bunch of WHAT THE FUCKKKKKK

Beyond the obvious, "Theon's a fucking twat, now Winterfell is razed to the ground and Jon's yielded himself and dragons are on the way across the sea," stuff...

There's some WEIRD shit afoot that I don't understand.

Who's Jaqen, or at least whoever was pretending to be? What the fuck?

And what happened at Blackwater? What the fuck?

Shapeshifters? Lord of Light bullshit? Bran not knowing he's not just turning into a wolf and turning into people? Are the Others that far south and no one knows and one of them possessed Manderly on the bridge of ships?

What the fuck is going on?

Is Jaime's head cut off by Catelyn? What the fuck?

What the fuck is going on?

Digging into Book 3 tonight. Don't know what the fuck the Red Wedding is, haven't looked it up, don't want it spoiled but know it exists. Assumed it was something with Sansa marrying Joffrey, but that's clearly not going to happen. Assuming now she gets sent off to Baelish, but I don't know what the fuck is going to happen with anything.

Really enjoyed that Martin was like, "Oh, yeah, I'm killing off the children Bran and Rickon, how do you like that?" and then soon after went, "LOL, just kidding, but you've been warned, reader! I'll kill them all!

[Alf]

Judas

What do you mean what happened at Blackwater?

Basically Tyrion built towers at either end of the bay and a massive chain between them. He then loaded joffs flagship with wildfire and lured stannis's fleet in. Being reckless they fell for it and charged in. Tyrion raised the chain so the ships couldn't escape and then fired loads of wildfire into the bay and the ships burnt...

At the same time the Tyrells, having changed sides to support Joff due to the wedding pact, attacked stannis' rear.

I'm not sure what you are chatting about with Manderly...

[Pablo Diablo]

Judas
Do you mean Renly's ghost? It's not the Others, don't worry they're not that far down.

[Judas Iscariot]

Judas

What do you mean what happened at Blackwater?

Basically Tyrion built towers at either end of the bay and a massive chain between them. He then loaded joffs flagship with wildfire and lured stannis's fleet in. Being reckless they fell for it and charged in. Tyrion raised the chain so the ships couldn't escape and then fired loads of wildfire into the bay and the ships burnt...

At the same time the Tyrells, having changed sides to support Joff due to the wedding pact, attacked stannis' rear.

I'm not sure what you are chatting about with Manderly...

Is it Manderly? Fuck, 600 character names per page. I really enjoy the lists of lords I've never met before and probably won't hear of again.

When Tyrion's on the boat, and Manderly's fighting with him (I think, anyway), and the ship's sinking, he sees Manderly reaching out to help him with the wrong arm, sees a dead face and gets his face half hacked off.

Then what's this shit with Renly having saved the day? Or was he just drunk as he rambled to Sansa?

There's weird magic at work, I tells ya.

[Alf]

Ahhhhh

Nope, that was a guy trying to kill Tyrion. The implication being he was bought my cersci

Mandon Moore is his name.

[Pete Cash]

Jaqen is a faceless man

[Judas Iscariot]

Jaqen is a faceless man

I remember reading about them but forget who they are. I suppose I'll find out soon enough if they're running around now.

[Pete Cash]

Hey if Jamie and Cersei are identical twins (which is possible) shouldn't Cersei be unable to have children like what happens with identical male/female twins in our world. At least I think so.

[Pablo Diablo]

Wait...what? Male/Female identical twins? You're talking some crazy talk here Pete Cash.

Unless you're talking about Male Identical twins where one loses the Y chromosome...somehow and develops with Turner Syndrome.

[Derek]

http://www.weknowawesome.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/peter-dinklage-emmy.jpg

[Cewsh]

I think you've got the wrong thread there, mate.

Unless Dinklage narrates the audiobook or something.

[Judas Iscariot]

Hey if Jamie and Cersei are identical twins (which is possible) shouldn't Cersei be unable to have children like what happens with identical male/female twins in our world. At least I think so.

Pete, I think you may have just blown the doors off of a major plot twist... Either knowingly or unknowingly...

Did a Google Search and found a fellow on the venerable Yahoo! Answers post this:

"Nearly all identical twins are either both girls or both boys. While there are boy/girl identical twins (rare), the girl always has Turner Syndrome and must use someone else's egg to get pregnant. Lack of the ability to ovulate is one of the features of this genetic disorder."

Which would only mean one of a couple of things:

1) Cersei has been storing Jaime's seed and injecting it into some other blonde broad and "going into labor" without him around to have a kid

2) They're not twins, since broads with that disease look deformed and have no tits, and she's supposed to be quite gorgeous.

I want no answers.

I've only gotten to read the prologue and first chapter of Book 3 so far. Please don't spoil beyond it:

As I'm reading the prologue, I'm like, "Shit, this little fucker's going to try and kill off everyone and run for the wall," and then when the Old Bear calls the meeting I'm positive one of his boys sold him out.

Then he says they're marching TOWARDS the wildings, and I think, "Well, fuck, that's some shit there, then."

Then the world is quiet and I go, "Hmmm..."

Then it starts to snow. "Well, this little fuck's plans are fucked," even as he goes to kill Sam.

Then the horn blows. Think nothing of it.

Horn blows again. Obviously the wildlings have been spotted.

Then it blows again, and I piss and shit my pants all at once. Fucking BRILLIANT opening.

Also, having Jaime as a POV character right now is AWESOME. I understand what you say about him being a badass now, Pete Cash. Before he was just this shit head asshole, and now he's this shit head asshole who I love for how badass cocky he is.

I thought rolling through book 1 again straight into Book 2 would get me weary of rolling into Book 3, like I'd need to take a break, but I just can't.

I hope to God the HBO series gets to play the whole thing out.

Oh, by the way, Book 2:

ONE OF THE FUCKING DRAGONS CAN BREATHE FIRE NOW. WHAT THE FUCK?

HOW CAN ALL OF THESE ASSHOLES BE WORRYING ABOUT THIS HOUSE AND THAT HOUSE AND WHO'S THE RIGHTFUL KING AND ALL OF THIS BULLSHIT WHEN THE WHITE WALKERS ARE COMING DOWN FROM THE NORTH AND THERE ARE FUCKING DRAGONS COMING FROM THE EAST?

I MEAN, WHAT THE FUCK? STUPID ASSHOLES, AS IF IT EVEN MATTERS

[Alf]

Indeed Judas. Indeed. Book 3 is all shades of awesome.

And yeah, interesting observation Pete. I doubt they'll play that out in the books but interesting none the less.

[Pete Cash]

ahahah this is just on some of the notes you made Judas not spoiling just making an observation

everyone who is like FUCK YOU JAMIE LANNISTER I HATE YOU in the TV show is going to be all over his dick by the end of season three of the show. it makes me laugh everyone hating him. he is more badass in the TV show season 1 than he is in the books as well. So if they keep that up in season three he is going to be the greatest TV character EVER

[Pablo Diablo]

I'll call this a Book 3 spoiler. Very slight though. Carries on from what Pete said in a way.

I just realized that Jamie is Sawyer from Lost although Jamie was a bigger heel than Sawyer. And yes I know Sawyer came after, but to me it was him first

[Alf]

Spot on Pabs! Good shout.

[Judas Iscariot]

ahahah this is just on some of the notes you made Judas not spoiling just making an observation

everyone who is like FUCK YOU JAMIE LANNISTER I HATE YOU in the TV show is going to be all over his dick by the end of season three of the show. it makes me laugh everyone hating him. he is more badass in the TV show season 1 than he is in the books as well. So if they keep that up in season three he is going to be the greatest TV character EVER

Only 100 pages into book 3, with one chapter involving the Jaime POV. Don't read if you've not read book 2, and please don't spoil if you've read beyond the meager showing I've got of 3.

Even reading through the first two, and even even watching the season, it's obvious there's something about him, especially with what his relationship with his father is juxtaposed with Tyrion's. Neither make him proud.

And in a sick way, he's completely adamant about how Cersei's the only woman he could ever want. I'm really wondering if he'll find out she's running around with their cousin as Tyrion observed, and what he'll do.

As far as I've read, he seems to have a sense of honor, though godless and seems like the only person who realizes gods are a farce. There's no reason he should have saved Brienne when he could have beat her over the head with an oar and yet, after she saves them as they're on the river, even though he's in chains he helps her back on board.

Just his one POV chapter so far through three has made me go, "Oh, shit, this motherfucker's a BAMF, kingslayer or not, why do I feel like I like him now?"

[Zyphlin]

Figured with the great Bronn/Tyrion video in the other thread, I'd throw something I saw recently regarding the books. Its got some pseudo spoilers up through book two so don't click it unless you're that far. Its a Leeroy Jenkins parody with a significant ASOIAF twist to it.

YouTube - ‪Game of Thrones: World of Westeros: Ned Jenkins (A Song of Ice and Fire)‬‏

[Pablo Diablo]

Love it. But I would say major book 2 spoiler.

[Pete Cash]

Does anyone else think the Tyrells are the most likeable of the major houses ??

[Pete Cash]

Does anyone find the distribution of kings guard a little weird during the war of the usurper. There was one with the actual king (Jaime), there were three with Rhaegar on the trident (Lewyn Martell, Jonothor Darry and Barristan Selmy) there were zero guarding Elia, Rhaenys, Aegon, a pregnant Rhaella and Viserys

So where were the remaining three (Oswell Whent, Gerold Hightower and Arthur Dayne) they were for some reason guarding Lyanna Stark. Now lets pretend for a moment that Rhaegar and Lyanna are Jons parents that still seems like a little over kill for what was essentially Rhaegars mistress/second wife and bastard son. So yeah I have been reading theories that maybe Aegon was also at the tower of joy. Which would make a lot more sense. GT was the lord commander and AD was the greatest knight in the world. That is a lot of firepower for guarding Lyanna.

[Alf]

It is a bit odd and I too think there is cause for that assumption.

There is also the talk of Ashara Dayne not really being dead and having escaped over the narrow sea with Aegon. I'm more convinced that Jon is part Dayne. The Dayne's are a bit mysterious at the moment and I expect them to have a much bigger role in the story.... That bit with Darkstar charging down Myrcella is a bit odd for instance.

[Alf]

Does anyone else think the Tyrells are the most likeable of the major houses ??

Yeah, but they are a POV away from being as bad as the Lannisters.

How do you pronounce Tyrell by the way? Is it Tie-rel (with emphasis on the rel) or Ti-rel (with emphasis on the i sound)?

[Pete Cash]

I read a theory I hadn't encountered before that Howland Read is Joyjen which perhaps means he warged into Arthur Dayne to allow Eddard to defeat him

I think it is pretty clear that Rheagar and Lyanna were in love and perhaps they did have a child. It is less clear if that child is Jon Snow. Jon Snow could be R and L or Eddard and Ashara or Eddard and a serving girl

[Pete Cash]

Yeah, but they are a POV away from being as bad as the Lannisters.

How do you pronounce Tyrell by the way? Is it Tie-rel (with emphasis on the rel) or Ti-rel (with emphasis on the i sound)?

Tie-rel

I think what is most amazing about the Lannisters is that despite all the power and wealth and hubris around them they really are as dumb as the Starks. Dumber in a lot of ways.

The downfall of Cersei after every person with the power to pull her in a bit leaves is hilarious to watch. She shits all over the Tyrell alliance and makes herself actually paranoid they are out to get her. Poisoning them to her in the process.

[Judas Iscariot]

Pete, I never took as such a fucking nerd.

It's fantastic.

[Dubya]

I picked up books 1-3 today. Pretty excited. Can't wait 9 months to see what happens. 2 & 3 are definitely longer books .. hopefully that translates to longer seasons of the TV series.

[thetony]

Just picked up book three today as well. While waiting in line I noticed an advert that said 'A Dance with Dragons' (the fifth book) is being released July 12th.

anywho..
end of second book/third book spoiler

After reading the last 'Catelyn' chapter, I was too quick to assume that the words "Brienne.. bring me your sword." would result in Jaime's death.

I suppose I'll settle with a dismembered hand. Nonetheless, I'm highly interested in reading from Sam's and the Kingslayer's POV in this third book.

And where the hell is Barristan Selmy?!

[Alf]

Don't read this Tony... but anyone who has read all of book three...

What's Tony's line about the dismembered hand about? Does Jaime get his hand injured before he gets it lopped off or is Tony just well and truly hitting the nail on the head?

[Pete Cash]

Tony is almost certainly referencing Jaimes capture by the Brave Companions. I think that happens pretty early in book three

[Pete Cash]

Pete, I never took as such a fucking nerd.

It's fantastic.

I am a huge nerd. I just spent tonight swapping fans in my computer because I don't really like the colour red. (they are red fans)

[Alf]

Tony is almost certainly referencing Jaimes capture by the Brave Companions. I think that happens pretty early in book three

It's the 21st chapter of the book... so a fair way in... I can't see him caining through 21 chapters in few hours

[Pete Cash]

You are right....jesus is my remembering of the books all wonky. So I actually....don't know what hes talking about.

I haven't read them in ages though.

[Alf]

Peter, A Dance With Dragons is released on the 1st of July in Australia. You cunt.

[Alf]

Just finishing up book 4...



This bit is epic


Her father plucked up a cyvasse piece. “I must know how you learned that Quentyn was abroad. Your brother went with Cletus Yronwood, Maester Kedry, and three of Lord Yronwood’s best young knights on a long and perilous voyage, with an uncertain
welcome at its end.

He has gone to bring us back our heart’s desire.”

She narrowed her eyes. “What is our heart’s desire?”

“Vengeance.” His voice was soft, as if he were afraid that someone might be listening.
“Justice.” Prince Doran pressed the onyx dragon into her palm with his swollen, gouty
fingers, and whispered, “Fire and blood.”

I look forward to them bringing that to the screen.

[Zyphlin]

Yeah, Doran is a dangerous man not to be fucked with and I think may quickly by the end of Book 5 be viewed as on the level of Littlefinger and Varys in regards to playing the game.

[Alf]

I think he's already up there... taking all that shit for years about being weak for not gaining the instant satisfaction of revenge after his sister is murdered, just so he could play the long game. He's a mountain of a man.

[Judas Iscariot]

700 pages into Book 3...

I am dead inside.

People were pissed Ned got his head cut off and threatened to stop watching the show?

What are they going to do when they've spent three years getting attached to characters and Robb, Arya and Catelyn are all offed at the same time, with Arya finally reaching them to be reunited?

Unfuckingbelieveable.

Now Snow's the king of a kingdom that doesn't exist?

Oh, by the way, there are White Walkers on the doorstep, and dragons are coming across the sea with an army of indestructible castrated slaves.

Unfuckingbelieveable.

[Zyphlin]

Seriously, I want this show to last to the third season simply to have the Red Wedding be the most horrifyingly soul destroying thing ever on television

[Judas Iscariot]

Seriously, I want this show to last to the third season simply to have the Red Wedding be the most horrifyingly soul destroying thing ever on television

It really will be. People will flip a fucking shit.

That was such a mobster thing it was just brilliant. You expect that from The Godfather, but Michael Corleone keeps on going after Vito's gone. He doesn't get whacked.

Just read the bit where the Wildlings make their attack and the Watch burns the steps to the Wall.

I hope Ghost shows up soon. It's no coincidence that Bran, Rickon and Jon are the only of the brood to survive because they kept their wolves with them. Sansa's good as dead anyway.

I really suspected a face change from The Hound, and what happens? His axe meets Arya's head.

These books are fucking mental.

I'd heard of the Red Wedding, didn't know what went down, and always thought it's obviously gotta be Joffrey's. Red = Lannister, FFS, so for it to play out the way it did was just brutal.

[Zyphlin]

Want to blow your mind even more. Martin himself spoiled it for you...


Then you remember the old crone at High Heart Hill? The one with the prophetic dream. During it she mentions this:


“I dreamt a wolf howling in the rain, but no one heard his grief...I dreamt such a clangor I thought my head would burst, drums and horns and pipes and screams, but the saddest sound was the little bells.”

Grey Wind howling outside, and the bells from the halfwit Catlyn kills.

And the fool patchface in the second book whose always rambling nonsense?


“Fool’s blood, king’s blood, blood on the maiden’s thigh, but chains for the guests and chains for the bridegroom, aye aye aye.”

Jinglebell, Robb, Roslin Frey, and Edmure the bridegroom.

but really, those are just minor little abstract hints at it. Martin obviously wouldn't put it out there in all its glory a book before hand, would he?

Remember the House of the Undying a book back? Remember the prophecy they give Dany? Check out this line of it:


Farther on she came upon a feast of corpses. Savagely slaughtered, the feasters lay strewn across overturned chairs and hacked trestle tables, asprawl in pools of congealing blood. Some had lost limbs, even heads. Savaged limbs clutched bloody cups, wooden spoons, roast fowl, heels of bread. On a throne above them sat a dead man with the head of a wolf. He wore an iron crown and held a leg of lamb in one hand as a king might hold a scepter, and his eyes followed Dany with mute appeal.

Sound like anything you've possibly read?

One of my favorite things in Martin's books is he does a pretty good job of foreshadowing and using prophecy and yet still keeping you fucking shocked when it happens, yet feeling like you want to put your head through a wall once you realize how much he's hinted at it before hand.

[Judas Iscariot]

BOOK 2 & 3 SPOILERS, 3/4 of the way in of 3 at least:


Want to blow your mind even more. Martin himself spoiled it for you...


Then you remember the old crone at High Heart Hill? The one with the prophetic dream. During it she mentions this:



Grey Wind howling outside, and the bells from the halfwit Catlyn kills.

And the fool patchface in the second book whose always rambling nonsense?



Jinglebell, Robb, Roslin Frey, and Edmure the bridegroom.

but really, those are just minor little abstract hints at it. Martin obviously wouldn't put it out there in all its glory a book before hand, would he?

Remember the House of the Undying a book back? Remember the prophecy they give Dany? Check out this line of it:



Sound like anything you've possibly read?

One of my favorite things in Martin's books is he does a pretty good job of foreshadowing and using prophecy and yet still keeping you fucking shocked when it happens, yet feeling like you want to put your head through a wall once you realize how much he's hinted at it before hand.

Dude, you just fucking blew my brain to smithereens.

That's absurd.

He obviously had it planned out for a while. I read that he wrote the entire third book but saved the Red Wedding chapters for the last thing he wrote because it was too painful to put to paper.

I plan to have this book finished by the middle of next week, then to get going on A Feast For Crows. I fear my noble quest to be caught up by time the 5th came out will fall well short, but I expected to read through the first, be like, "OK, time for a break," but had to read the second. Then all of a sudden I'm tearing through 1200 pages of the third...

Not heard great things about the 4th because of the way he chose to divide it from some of the other characters because it was too long, but eh, I'll judge for myself.

BTW don't ruin it for me. Thanks.

[Alf]

Judas... you might not have gathered this yet but...


Did you figure out that it was fixed up by Tywin, Walder, and Roose Bolton?

There's the whole bit where Tyrion is talking to Tywin and he says something along the lines of "Some battles are won with words not swords".

The Red wedding is absolutely epic. It's just so gutting. You just can't believe what is happening and you just wish it wasn't unfolding that way. Wait till you do a re-read mate and you know it's coming up. It's still as gutting. I seriously can't wait till they get to this on the series.... the whole playing the Rains Of Castermere thing is just hugely dramatic.


I really, really like the 4th one mate... take that for what you will...

[Zyphlin]

Yeah, I rather enjoyed the 4th as well and sped through it just as fast as the others. Wasn't the best, but was far from bad. I think people were more just bitter they'd have to wait so long to read about some of their favorite characters which isn't going to matter as much now with the 5th book coming out

[Judas Iscariot]

Judas... you might not have gathered this yet but...


Did you figure out that it was fixed up by Tywin, Walder, and Roose Bolton?

There's the whole bit where Tyrion is talking to Tywin and he says something along the lines of "Some battles are won with words not swords".

The Red wedding is absolutely epic. It's just so gutting. You just can't believe what is happening and you just wish it wasn't unfolding that way. Wait till you do a re-read mate and you know it's coming up. It's still as gutting. I seriously can't wait till they get to this on the series.... the whole playing the Rains Of Castermere thing is just hugely dramatic.

Yeah, I caught that bit. 100 pages past the Red Wedding now and I still feel like someone I know died the next day.

I can't forsee any hope at all for the North whatsoever. The Wall is going to be overrun eventually, Winterfell is in ashes. It's fucking depressing as hell.

Meanwhile Dany is like the fucking Terminator over across the sea.

It just makes me so ANGRY, all this bullshit with all these kingdoms and lords squabbling amongst each other. DON'T THEY FUCKING SEE WHAT'S ABOUT TO HAPPEN TO THEM?

THEY'RE ALLLLL GONNA FUCKING DIE AND THEY'RE WORRYING ABOUT ALL THIS BULLSHIT.

Oh my God. I don't know the last time I was so emotionally invested in a book or a movie or anything.

I've read some posts on westeros.org made by people right after they read the Red Wedding. Broken furniture, unable to touch the book for a month, slamming chairs in the breakroom at work in front of coworkers who had no idea what the fuck was going on.

I just stared at the pages for a couple of minutes.

When Ned died, "I went, wait, what the FUCK? REALLY?" but then realizing his son was rallying the North to avenge him became this awesome cause for justice.

For this, I just stared at the pages, put the book down, and sat there.

Then I picked it up, read Arya's chapter right after that, closed the book, and just sat there. And sat there.

The gods are dead. Old and new, they're all dead.

[Judas Iscariot]

YOU KNOW WHAT? COME TO FUCKING THING OF IT:

***BOOK THREE SPOILERS***

THE FUCKING BOOK'S CALLED "A CROWN OF SWORDS," which is what Robb's fucking crown is fashioned as.

It's supposed to be about HIM and his RISE and his VENGEANCE in the name of the NORTH and TRUTH, JUSTICE and THE AMERICAN WAY.

And then Martin goes ahead and fucking kills him off and all the hope of the North and all the hope the reader's had of the family they were brought into the book with and appear to be the good guys, the protagonists, the one's you root for, and now they're all FUCKING DEAD, except for a cripple, a 4 year old wandering the wilderness with a wildling, and a bastard son who apparently isn't actually Ned's.

Martin is a cruel, heartless, manipulative genius, and I fucking love him for it.

[Judas Iscariot]

I'm just going to use this thread as my own personal reaction blog now. Spur of the moment, when I can. Forgive me for not being privy to things, but when things happen I'm just going to post what I think here. Please don't spoil anything beyond what I've posted, ESPECIALLY if I'm freaking out over has some other sort of outcome further on.

Just toy with my maidenhead, don't break it. I'm making my way to Book 5 as valiantly as I can. I don't remember the last time I watched TV, because why watch TV when you can read this?

Anyway:

***BOOK THREE SPOILERS***

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAAHHA

AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH

THAT LITTLE MOTHERFUCKER JOFFREY'S DEAD!!!!!!

AHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHA

THE LITTLE MOTHERFUCKER!

DIED FROM CHOKING? POISON?

FUCKED IF I KNOW. MY MONEY'S ON MELISADRE, BUT I BET THERE'S SOME OTHER SHIT GOING ON I DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT.

BUT THE BELLS ARE RINGING NOW.

THAT LITTLE MOTHERFUCKER'S FUCKING DDDDEEEEEAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDD

That is all.

[Alf]

Ahaha, love it.

[Pete Cash]

I read a theory on how the fire the book refers to (dany, dragons, the targs) will be used to defeat the ice ( the others) I'm on the train so I will go more in depth but it seems the general feeling is dany=fire and Jon= ice. Even in the hbo show the scenes around Jon are shot very cold and everything almost looks blue where dany everything seems much warmer and red.

Which with the possibility of jons parentage could make him fire and ice. I will go more in-depth at home.

[Alf]

It could just be that Jon is up in the north where it's cold, and Dany is over the sea in a hto climate. It'd be odd for her to be in a warm climate but the colour palette to be cold.

[Pete Cash]

They play with the colour palette outside of them as well. The Arryns and the vale seemed to be very green.

Anyways more into it. The Others are apparently weak to "dragonsteel" which could very well be Valyrian steel. If so that also fits in the Fire and Ice motif as the Targs are originally from Valyria

[Pete Cash]

well well well well well well well well new book spoiler

arya isn't blind. yeah good one GRRM you wanker

[Pete Cash]

Also at this point if you don't literally see a corpse in the ground then the character is.not.dead.

Mild spoiler about his wimpier writing.

[Pete Cash]

Needless to say a few copies of the last book have been leaked and I know the major spoilers because I really don't care I just want it over. So stay off the internet guys because they are out there.

I will say this. he has outright lost control of the story. He is stephen kinging it :(

[Zyphlin]

I didn't actually think that Arya's blindness was permanent anyways. For whatever reason I expected that to be a temporary thing. Kind of some supernatural "time out" for breaking the rules.

As far as not seeing the corpse...there's two people who are "perceived dead" that I and I think many other fans had a pretty good guess being alive, being Theon and Sandor. Interesting to see if you're talking about someone other than those two

[Judas Iscariot]

976 pages into book 3. Well, fuck.

ARYA'S ALIVE!!!! THANK FUCK FOR THAT, SOMEONE'S ALIVE!

But fuck me in the goat ass, here's Jon doing everything he's told, he HOLDS THE FUCKING WALL against impossible odds, and what does he get? Bullshit from Slynt and Alliser. I mean, fuck, come on now.

Sansa's off with Littlefinger. Sorta figure that would happen.

And this stupid fucking ass from Dorne spends his entire time fighting Clegane smart and then he runs up to him and fucks it all up while he's pinned to the ground. What a stupid fuck. And now Tyrion's gonna die.

Great.

BTW, I love Davos. I think he's absolutely fantastic. A real man's man. R'hllor can fuck off.

[thetony]

Damn you, Judas. (book 3)

Most of the action must happen towards the latter part of the novel. 300+ pages in and not too much blood shed -- just a whole lot of confusion and disarray.

However, the Unsullied are a bad-ass group of soldiers. That tale of the "Battle of Qohor" sure was something.

[Pablo Diablo]

Needless to say a few copies of the last book have been leaked and I know the major spoilers because I really don't care I just want it over. So stay off the internet guys because they are out there.

I will say this. he has outright lost control of the story. He is stephen kinging it :(

That is disappointing. It's only the 5th of 7 maybe he'll turn it around in the last 2 (probably 4...he probably will be dead before the end).

Has there been a good long (4-5+ books) series ending or do they all get too caught up with loose threads that end up being resolved in an unsatisfying manner?

I'm clearly forgetting one

[Pablo Diablo]

One question from the second book that's not a big one but it's just confused me a bit.

Why did they send Myrcella to Dorne by way of Braavos. Doesn't that send the boat right by Dragonstone? Also why not just meet the Dornish envoy in Pentos? This is me assuming they sent her from King's Landing which is where I think they did...

[Judas Iscariot]

One question from the second book that's not a big one but it's just confused me a bit.

Why did they send Myrcella to Dorne by way of Braavos. Doesn't that send the boat right by Dragonstone? Also why not just meet the Dornish envoy in Pentos? This is me assuming they sent her from King's Landing which is where I think they did...

Someone could please correct me...

There are no full maps other than what's provided (which makes me TWITCH) but looking at this one I found: http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1136/immapworld01ans2.gif

If it's in any way accurate, Pentos is well more out of the way than Braavos. Figure if you're sailing from King's Landing, it's a quicker turn past Dragonstone than heading up to Pentos.

Finished Book 3. Don't read unless you have.

Fuckin' Zombie Catelyn has taken up with Beric and his motley crew of weirdos? interesting.

Jon's now Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Cool. I wonder if Stannis offering him Winterfell and a legitimate name only happened because he received word that Robb meant to name him heir? Did Robb get off any birds declaring that? I dunno.

Sad to see the Hound die, oddly enough, though I suspect we've not seen the last of him.

Sansa's world is just so fucked up it's ridiculous. She's one of favorite characters just because she represents everything about what fantasy is supposed to be, and as the reader has it stripped away from them, so does she. I have a hunch, judging by the last chapter, that she's finally going to grow some Stark balls.

I knew she was going to wind up with Littlefinger one way or another from when he was fawning over how she looked just like her mother in the first book. Glad Lysa's gone, the fucking lunatic.

Alright, so it turns out Melissandre and R'hllor really just want to crack skulls with The Others. That makes sense, and it turns out this wacky god and his minions are the only people IN THE ENTIRE FUCKING REALM, who understand what the real deal is with shit. So props to the Lord of Light now.

WTF is going on with Bran? And where the FUCK is Rickon? He wanders off and disappears for hundreds of pages at a time, which makes sense, he's never been around, anyway, though I suspect he's going to wind up having a very big part to play when all's said and done.

Theon's not dead? That's too bad, the little fucker.

[Pablo Diablo]

But if you follow this map http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/#!/map/ which I'd imagine is right since GRRM must have had a say, it's further away all the way North. Also we should get more maps in the new book.

[Alf]

I'm not sure how accurate the maps of the Essos side of things is... It would seem very strange (book 2) for them to head up to Braavos then all the way down to Dorne

[Alf]

Appaz the book has leaked to the internet now. Anyone found a copy?

[lotjx]

No, and you can thank the Germans for the leak. CNN actually had the story up on their web page and most of the spoilers are being spread via fan forums and taken right down. I would suspect a few fan sites will post them regardless and probably by this time tomorrow or Wednesday, we will know it all. The 4th of July holiday probably helped stop the spread the spoilers. Considering Cash's review and the fact that the original source where I got my books is getting it on kindle now. I say spoil away since it seems to be a mess.

[Alf]

No, I don't want to read spoilers. I want to read the book itself. I'm not interested in reading Cash's review.

[lotjx]

Then why did you ask? I would suspect someone would use spoiler tags, it would be one of the few times, I agree with using them.

[Alf]

What are you talking about? I asked if anyone had found a copy of the BOOK that has leaked to the net. I didn't ask for spoilers, and I'm not looking at Peter's spoilers. What are you mis-understanding here?

You folks can feel free to bang on about the book in spoiler tags if you like, but as soon as a discussion proper starts in here then I won't be back until I'm done with the book.

[Pablo Diablo]

Yeah I'm avoiding any of the fan sites until I'm done reading the 5th book which will probably be in just over a week. Probably no CLUBS on the 12th or 13th for me.

[Alf]

I'm taking the day off.... how gay is that?

[lotjx]

I don't know why you would avoid this place. Everything is in spoiler tags even stuff that has nothing to do with spoilers.

[Pablo Diablo]

You haven't been around long enough to know of The Dark Knight day.

[Alf]

I don't know why you would avoid this place. Everything is in spoiler tags even stuff that has nothing to do with spoilers.

You don't understand what a spoiler is mate. We've talked about this before. You just don't seem to be able to get your head around it.

[Miotch]

I feel like I can't click anything in here. QUESTION though.

Is the Red Wedding...

Tully and Frey or Joffrey and Margaery?

Fucking hell, just read the wedding at the twins. Fucking HELL.

[Alf]

I'm here for you Miotch...

[Rip]

That is disappointing. It's only the 5th of 7 maybe he'll turn it around in the last 2 (probably 4...he probably will be dead before the end).

Has there been a good long (4-5+ books) series ending or do they all get too caught up with loose threads that end up being resolved in an unsatisfying manner?

I'm clearly forgetting one

Can't think of one, maybe Eddings or Donaldson but pretty much all the 'epic' stuff seems to lose the plot around 2/3 in.

On reflection the 'Thieves World' series stays pretty sharp but that could be down to its nature :dunno:

[Judas Iscariot]

Can't think of one, maybe Eddings or Donaldson but pretty much all the 'epic' stuff seems to lose the plot around 2/3 in.


Yeah, unfortunately that seems to be the case with a LOT of shit.

I understand that the stories are EPIC, but it seems to me that so many authors just want to boast how many books they can add to their series rather than boasting about how awesome it is.

Case in point: Robert Jordan and Wheel of Time. I get it, you've got this giant series, but 4 of the books are unnecessary.

A Song of Ice and Fire was originally supposed to be three books, then ballooned because he had so much shit going on that he had to expound on.

Now we're on book 5, which was supposed to be book 4, but there was too much shit going on so book 4 got split into two books, and 6 years ago he said that book 5 was going to be out in a year.

Well, that clearly came and went.

Shit needs to be condensed. "Here's the fucking story, and there you go."

The Lord of the Rings is the SINGLE GREATEST TALE EVER TOLD, and yet it was written as one book that was too fucking big and had to be split into three.

And those three got EVERYTHING done, and then some. Tolkien could have gone on and on and on about all of the bullshit he mentioning in his mythology, but he left it to the mythology and that made it so much better.

I've been rambling a whole hell of a lot here, I just noticed.

BTW, GRRM's series fucking rules.

[Alf]

I've read some spoiler free reviews that are very positive. I'll reserve judgement until I've read the book.

A lot of people hate Feat For Crows but I love it...

[thetony]

I picked up the fourth a few days ago. I'm not finished the third quite yet, but I took a look at the upcoming character perspectives in A Feast for Crows and noticed some peculiar and different chapter titles.

"The Iron Captain", "The Drowned Man", etc etc. Can someone give me some insight on these new chapters without giving too much away?

[Pete Cash]

Apparently the book is well written and worth reading. I don't really care about spoilers because I believe a work of art should stand on its own shocks or no shocks. I just worry about him over using dumb cliff hangers of no consequences. Maybe jon is really dead but I have my doubts.

That spoiler is a MASSIVE spoiler for the new book btw. plz do not click it unless you don't care about spoilers or you have in fact read the book. k thx

[Pete Cash]

I want to discuss my favourite topic about how dumb the Starks are. This contains book three spoilers around the time of the RED WEDDING

how dumb are the starks. I mean seriously. The Boltons are practically comic book villains or monsters straight out of mordor and the Starks still treat them as trusted bannermen. They plan to cut off our skin like serial killers but yeah whatever. I mean even including the Hornwood land conflict which is actually very modern the Starks still do nothing about them. At all. Just let them keep being evil and cutting off peoples skin and being huge jerks.

If a minor house in The Westerlands wore former Lannister lords skin as cloaks I am willing to bet they would be wiped out. I often ponder who is dumber the Starks or the Lannisters and while it is a tricky question its stuff like this that gives the Starks the edge.

Come to think of it Tywin literally wiped out two houses that rebelled against him

[Judas Iscariot]

I picked up the fourth a few days ago. I'm not finished the third quite yet, but I took a look at the upcoming character perspectives in A Feast for Crows and noticed some peculiar and different chapter titles.

"The Iron Captain", "The Drowned Man", etc etc. Can someone give me some insight on these new chapters without giving too much away?

The chapter titles sort of introduce new characters through the eyes of those on the Iron Islands, which are like a different world from the rest of Westeros.

For Book 4, get ready to be introduced to no fewer than 600 new important characters in the first couple hundred pages.

[Judas Iscariot]

I want to discuss my favourite topic about how dumb the Starks are. This contains book three spoilers around the time of the RED WEDDING

how dumb are the starks. I mean seriously. The Boltons are practically comic book villains or monsters straight out of mordor and the Starks still treat them as trusted bannermen. They plan to cut off our skin like serial killers but yeah whatever. I mean even including the Hornwood land conflict which is actually very modern the Starks still do nothing about them. At all. Just let them keep being evil and cutting off peoples skin and being huge jerks.

If a minor house in The Westerlands wore former Lannister lords skin as cloaks I am willing to bet they would be wiped out. I often ponder who is dumber the Starks or the Lannisters and while it is a tricky question its stuff like this that gives the Starks the edge.

Come to think of it Tywin literally wiped out two houses that rebelled against him

Ned's honor killed him off, but it was admirable.

For Robb to run off and marry some broad when he KNEW it was going to piss off that lunatic Frey was just so, so, so stupid it was unbelievable.

Reading it, I thought Robb would be smarter than his father, and yet somehow he manages to fuck up THE ENTIRE FUCKING WAR by marrying some stupid broad who gave him head one time.

So dumb.

And by the way, Pete, FUCK YOU.

You were right. Jaime's the fucking man.

[Pete Cash]

Ok I have actually read some chapters from the new book here and there and one of them is fucking horrific and I worry about his sanity. When more people have finished the book I will discuss it but jesus GRRM.

[lotjx]

I am going to try and get it this week if not next week. I am hoping the criticism is in the same vain of Episode I where what the fanboys had in their heads is not where the author was headed yet they bitch him out. I have to read Feast of Crows again to help remember most of it. The Iron Island stuff felt so unnecessary.

[Pablo Diablo]

I just spent the past day and a bit reading the book and finished it.

Spoilers of ADWD
Fuck GRRM. Like seriously. Something is wrong with this man. I mean for fucks sake. Killing Jon? Are you fucking touched in the head? Although I realize since we haven't seen him buried in the ground he's probably still alive because GRRM is a CUNT

[Pablo Diablo]

And another thing Spoiler from ADWD

Would it kill him to not mention people midway through the story and only talk about them for one chapter? Here's Davos..ok I will stop talking about him halfway through. Here's Jamie. Oh you only get one bullshit chapter of him. Here's Brienne, but don't worry you don't even get a chapter of her just a sighting of her. Bullshit.

Also oo I'm GRRM, I'm going to leave you unsure if a battle happened or not. Fuck off.

[Pablo Diablo]

Where's Pete Cash? I need to rant and rave to somebody.

[Alf]

I'm up to about the (Just realised that might ruin a twist thatisn't really a twist) 4th or 5th Davos chapter.

Where Manderley and Glover are chatting about Davos' mission

So far so good. Really enjoying it. There's a lot of new characters and places though...

[Cewsh]

I just spent the past day and a bit reading the book and finished it.

Spoilers of ADWD
Fuck GRRM. Like seriously. Something is wrong with this man. I mean for fucks sake. Killing Jon? Are you fucking touched in the head? Although I realize since we haven't seen him buried in the ground he's probably still alive because GRRM is a CUNT

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

[Alf]

How the fuck could you read all this in a day and a bit?

I'm a ridiculously quick reader and I'm about 1/3 of the way through after a good solid day and a bits reading. You must have scanned it rather than reading it.

[Pablo Diablo]

No I read it, outside of doing my usual of skimming his sex scenes because they're ridiculous. And it literally is all I did yesterday.

[Alf]

Fucking hell mate. Your eyes must hurt.

I did read on the internet that black people have better eye muscles than us weak eyed whities though...

You're my big strong eyed boy.

[Pablo Diablo]

Yeah I read it for about...16 hours yesterday. Wow that's pathetic. I really should have been studying.

But I think the fact my eyes are fine shows that the kindle is great for reading books on.

[Pablo Diablo]

As an aside Cewsh

What's what?

[Miotch]

Almost to the end of book 3. I have done a bit of reading when it's quiet at work, however right now it's not and all I want to do is finish the fucking book today.

[Cewsh]

As an aside Cewsh

What's what?

Oh, that was just a response to your reveal about Jon. It shouldn't overly surprise me that Martin would fuck with or kill off any character at this point, but it just seems so wildly insane.

[Pete Cash]

Thats why I don't think he has done it. Killing Ned achieved something but killing Jon is retarded and IT DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF US READING ABOUT HIS STORY FOR OVER A DECADE.

If Jon dies what is the point of his character from an artistic point of view.

However, if Jon is "dead" it gives a really retarded reason for him to get off the wall. Which he really needs to do for his story to advance.

[Pete Cash]

Also this one is general stuff about the new book

The bolton/theon chapters were just fucking ludicrous and i have to question if he is mentally ill after writing those. the boltons are the worst villains and the starks not just wiping them out is the reason i think they are gaylords

[lotjx]

Got Book 5 today and have been reading almost non-stop. I am wearing my Direwolf Winter is Coming shirt. I am totally nerding out for the first day.

[Pete Cash]

As far as POVs go the really good ones are

Theons but they do verge on torture porn in places and Jons are absolutely excellent and probably the best Jon chapters ever. There are a few other good minor ones as well but here are the problems for mine

Tyrion and Dany are just tedious as hell. Dany is just the worst at the moment because there is a plot twist that makes all of adventures completely pointless unless its a fake out or something (which it could be)

The book is certainly better than the last. I would rank it with A Clash of Kings because like Kings its mostly set up imo for the next book. The fat cunt needs to resolve some fucking storylines and to stop introducing more before the thing ends up like lost.

[Pablo Diablo]

I agree that it's better than AFfC but I'm angrier after it, maybe because I know it's so long until we get the next book whereas I only finished AFfC a couple months ago and knew that this was coming out.

As for your spoiler Cash (Full ADWD spoilers)

What plot twist are you talking about with Dany? Her being found/captured by the Khal at the end?

[Pete Cash]

pablo :

well that puts her right back to where she fucking started but no its more someone with a better claim to the throne being alive in secret that is pretty much a completely perfect person with an army

[Pablo Diablo]

Cash: That is if you believe that Aegon is actually Aegon. Which I do. But there are people out there who don't believe it. Something about what Varys said in the epilogue about false dragons. But who the hell knows with GRRM, he really is opening far too many storylines at once. Needs to consolidate things a bit.

[Judas Iscariot]

As far as POVs go the really good ones are

Theons but they do verge on torture porn in places and Jons are absolutely excellent and probably the best Jon chapters ever. There are a few other good minor ones as well but here are the problems for mine

Tyrion and Dany are just tedious as hell. Dany is just the worst at the moment because there is a plot twist that makes all of adventures completely pointless unless its a fake out or something (which it could be)

The book is certainly better than the last. I would rank it with A Clash of Kings because like Kings its mostly set up imo for the next book. The fat cunt needs to resolve some fucking storylines and to stop introducing more before the thing ends up like lost.

7 years on the board and somehow this is the first time I realize that quoting a post with spoiler tags displays the spoilers.

And yet somehow you didn't spoil anything, even within the tags, so kudos to you, Pete. Actually got me more excited to read on.

Regarding book 4 and a bit of book 5, I guess, not spoiling anything, but I'll tag it. Please done ruin shit for me, I'm trying valiantly to catch up so I can wait 6 years for the next book like all of you, and then wait another 6 years until he decides to write prequels and up and dies like Jordan...

HOW MANY FUCKING CHARACTERS DO I NEED TO BE INTRODUCED TO?

I GOT THESE ASSHOLES RUNNING AROUND ON THESE SHIT HOLE IRON ISLANDS AND I GIVE AS MUCH A SHIT ABOUT THEM AS THE REST OF WESTEROS.

Oh, but wait, this one shit face who got exiled told them he can get dragons, so I guess that sets up a BIG PLOT LINE.

BUT FUCK. AND THIS ONE MOTHERFUCKER LIVES OFF OF SEAWATER.

Also, too many powerful women in this series now. This is fantasy, God damn it, and I don't want to be emasculated.

And this DORNE shit.

"Oh, we're whatever and we live in the hot sun, and we're all pissed off because we were mostly left well enough alone but that's not enough because we want to RULE EVERYTHING even though it's probably too chilly even at King's Landing."

Thank God there's Arya in Braavos, though I'm fucked if I know what she's doing hanging around with a bunch of black and white cookies. I'll find out soon.

Oh, and Cersei's a drunken lunatic and Jaime's my favorite character in the book, and perhaps in the entire series now, though he finds competition with Jon and Tyrion.

I just keep waiting to get back to the Wall, but I know it isn't coming.

I really don't know why he decided to divide it up like this. The other books have half stories and cliffhangers all over the place, but this is where he decides to tell the whole story of a completely new lot of people?

I'm sure it'll pan out. I hope it does. But I just want to be back in the fucking North where shit's REALLY going down and I want to see what's going on across the sea.

This book seems like a gigantic set up to a set up to something awesome. I hope it's awesome and he doesn't fuck off and die.

Read the other day that Martin isn't getting started on the next book til NEXT YEAR.

When Crows came out, he said Dragons was going to be out in a year. Fast forward 28 years or whateverthefuck. This is never going to be finished, because he's too much of a pussy to just do it.

[Alf]

Finished it. Loved it.

Pabs...

Varys doesn't say anything about false dragons... not that I can see...

I can see how people would be frustrated with this book as it isn't very good in terms of a books usual structure. It is very muchly a 'part'

[Alf]

Some more thoughts from me:

I don't really give a shit about Mereen. It's a complication that is unessecary I think. He's pretty much written himself into a corner now with that. How does he get Dany moving West? He's given over an entire book to moving characters east, and with two books to go is he going to spend one whole book setting them up moving west, and the last book them arriving? It's now even harder than ever to get them moving what with Big Vic, Marwyn, Tyrion, all having to make themselves known.

I'm guessing Dany will make chums with this new Khalesar and ride down the Yunkishmen, just as Burnt Vic turns up with his fleet, and Tyrion is going to have to tame these dragons... and then they STILL need to motivate them all to up sticks and move west. Sigh.

All the Bran stuff is odd and I can't see where it's going.

I really enoyed the book, but I'm not bothered about dragons, I'm not bothered about zombies, or Others, or any of the other fantastical elements. What I like is the war and the back-stabbery. More of that, and less of the fantastical fluff would suit me.

And Jon just suddenly deciding he's going against his vows and to go and take on Ramsey seemed really odd to me...

[Judas Iscariot]

Should finish Crows in a couple of days and then tackle Dragons.

BTW, is anyone else COMPLETELY ENRAGED that the title of Book 6 starts with "The" instead of "A" FFS?

DAMN WELL BETTER BE A REASON FOR IT

[Alf]

Ok I have actually read some chapters from the new book here and there and one of them is fucking horrific and I worry about his sanity. When more people have finished the book I will discuss it but jesus GRRM.

Which one?


I just spent the past day and a bit reading the book and finished it.

Spoilers of ADWD
Fuck GRRM. Like seriously. Something is wrong with this man. I mean for fucks sake. Killing Jon? Are you fucking touched in the head? Although I realize since we haven't seen him buried in the ground he's probably still alive because GRRM is a CUNT

I'd bet the farm that he won't stay dead long. Cat and Beric anyone?

There are a few things that match up with the old prince that was promised prohpecy too...

A red star bleeding (the due who got ripped apart has a red star as part of his sigil, and he was almost definitely bleeding)

'Born' amongst smoke (Jon mentions the steam coming off his wounds looking like smoke) and salt (Bowen Marsh is crying).

We've seen how shite most people are at interpreting the visions they see...

Also, I wanted to add... a lot of people are going mental about how thick Dany is, but Jon was an absolute div through a lot of this book. Yeah, just bring the wildings through the wall, that won't fuck people off...

I wish Manderly's plot got a bit more movement too.

And if Bolton has wiped out Stannis' lot... what of the banker? ...how would the bank react if one of their own was whacked? Possibly hire some faceless men...

[Pablo Diablo]

Alfie

I really don't think the Bolton's routed the entire Stannis army. Otherwise any of the scenes we got of Asha and Theon were pointless. But I really can't think of any other reason the Bolton's would have sent that letter.

[Alf]

Alfie

I really don't think the Bolton's routed the entire Stannis army. Otherwise any of the scenes we got of Asha and Theon were pointless. But I really can't think of any other reason the Bolton's would have sent that letter.

Yeah, maybe they just wiped out Umbers lot who are just standing around banging drums and stuff...

Although, what perfect time for Theon, Asha, and Fake Arya to do a runner if the camp comes under attack?

Personally I think Stannis used the Umber's to bang their drums and sound their horns to draw out the army from Winterfel. He's got a plan, Stannis is not stupid as proven by Victarion's chat about how Stannis lured his fleet into a strait and then smashed it from two sides...

I also really loved how painful the journey from deepwood motte is... brutal. Just when you really want things to go 'the good guys' way...

[Alf]

Ahaha, I love the little details you don't pick up until someone tells you... but...

Apparently

Manderly made those three Frey's into pies....

And there is talk about Theon perhaps being gelded

[Pablo Diablo]

Ahaha, I love the little details you don't pick up until someone tells you... but...

Apparently

Manderly made those three Frey's into pies....

And there is talk about Theon perhaps being gelded

Oh I definitely think Theon has been eunuch'd. It was definitely hinted at when he didn't want to change his clothes in front of people. I think he might have even said something that hinted that it was missing. He was saying something about his missing fingers and toes and then he referred to missing another part that he didn't name.

Didn't pick up on Manderly making the Frey's into pies though.

[Judas Iscariot]

Guys, please jam me in the eye with a hot poker.

500 pages into Crows, though it isn't really related, and please don't spoil, though I don't think it's possible with this shit:

There's a Wiki of Westeros, so I type in Jon Snow, and after everything there's a link at the bottom of the page leading to a forum about his parentage.

Now I know there's all sorts of speculation about it, and it's fascinating, that's why I clicked the link.

But it's full of people talking about how the Targaryen madness can be passed along IF HE'S EVEN RELATED, FFS, NO ONE FUCKING KNOWS, through genetics and it gets into this argument about genes and alleles and all this shit, because SCIENTIFICALLY, the alleles are passes along via this proportion of mother vs father and there are MUTATED EXCEPTIONS and blah blah blah...

THESE MOTHERFUCKERS ARE READING A FANTASY NOVEL AND THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT! FOR PAGES AT A TIME!

I MEAN FUCK!

Anyway... Crows has been my slowest book to get through. I really think he should have told half the stories of everyone instead all the story of some.

Although, I will say that getting through this makes me excited to get into Dragons and see what the hell is going on with everyone else I'm more interested reading about.

Although, also, with all of these new characters, this book's going to expand to 21 volumes and he's going to die before it's finished.

[Alf]

Yep, people are well into it. GRRM brought it on himself when he started talking about how Baratheon's have really dominant genes in terms of hair and eye colour.

[Pete Cash]

The chapters that made me question his sanity were

The Theon torture porn chapters. Probably the best POVs for a long time but deeply disturbing. Theon didn't *need* that kind of treatment to be redeemed because he was a sympathetic character any way imo

[lotjx]

Book 5 should be called a Dance of Nothing. I finished it and while I was disappointed a bit with Book 4 not doing anything. Book 5 may actually be worse. Yes, I know about the "death" at the end, but there have been ten people who thought were dead and now magically alive. I fully expect that person to be alive in book 6. If that person isn't then this entire saga has been for nothing. The rest is a mess of people who stumble into one stall tactic into another. Its maddening with this so close, so far away shit that he pulls.

I really wanted Book 5 to be the beginning of the end of this saga, but it feels like we are still stuck at the beginning of the middle. There really seems to be no end game insight either. At this point, I would not be shocked if the Others kill everyone at the Wall and then take over. In actuality its the only thing that makes sense.

[Pablo Diablo]

I know you were being vague on purpose to avoid spoiler tags, but I'd still put it in the tags. At least the first paragraph.

But I agree with you though. It really does seem like we are stuck at the beginning of the middle.

[lotjx]

I am not going to put spoiler tags when being vague, the problem with spoiler tags now is that we have spoiler tags on stuff that has no business being spoiler tags. People are missing out on discussing stuff that is not really a spoiler. To me, I only started reading these books two years ago, if I had waited the whole 8 or 9 years for this book, I'd be pissed.

[Miotch]

We get it. You hate spoiler tags. Christ.

[Alf]

lotjx. Stop posting in here you numpty. You clearly don't get it. You aren't adding anything to the discussion either. You're just being a stuborn twunt and rolling in here stamping your feet.

[Alf]

The chapters that made me question his sanity were

The Theon torture porn chapters. Probably the best POVs for a long time but deeply disturbing. Theon didn't *need* that kind of treatment to be redeemed because he was a sympathetic character any way imo

Really? It didn't strike me as drastic change of tone at all. The books are pretty gory for the most part... we've already had a lot of chat about a girl being raped and having her tits chewed off. Etc. I think it was nessecary to sell how much of a broken man Theon is now, it makes his actions towards the end that much more heroic than if he was Theon all along...

[Pete Cash]

Perhaps I am just getting old but they just struck me as artistically not needed but I have criticised the paragraphs about food and sex for the same reason. Just over the top filler imo BUT those chapters outside of that were the best things he has written since Storm.

[Pete Cash]

I hope GRRM does a cameo as one of the Manderlys if the fat fucker lives that long.

[Pete Cash]

Also its been a while since I have read the others but correct me if I am wrong

If Jon is brought back to life then this is obviously a very cheap way of getting him off the wall but it also brings about Robbs proclaiming him as his heir. There are enough people who witnessed it floating around. Am I just misremembering this ? I mean Bran and Rickon are still alive but I am sure Robb named Jon his heir because people are under the belief they be dead.

It is quite interesting the dynamic in the North at the moment and thats where all the action is because you have the potential of undead Jon being named as Robbs heir but also Rickon floating about which will ruin Littlefingers plans

[Alf]

Also its been a while since I have read the others but correct me if I am wrong

If Jon is brought back to life then this is obviously a very cheap way of getting him off the wall but it also brings about Robbs proclaiming him as his heir. There are enough people who witnessed it floating around. Am I just misremembering this ? I mean Bran and Rickon are still alive but I am sure Robb named Jon his heir because people are under the belief they be dead.

It is quite interesting the dynamic in the North at the moment and thats where all the action is because you have the potential of undead Jon being named as Robbs heir but also Rickon floating about which will ruin Littlefingers plans

How does it get him off the wall cheaply? Because he died he'd be released from his oaths or something?

He already pretty much renounced his vows when he said he was marching south anyway... which is my biggest gripe of the book... Jon is all about honour or at least trying to be honourable. I find it jarring that he'd suddenly decide he wants to get stuck in. Not only that, but it rings hollow to have all the free people be up for going to kick Ramsay's arse. Why do they give a shit?

It seems they have some odd respect for the Starks... there was that whole bit about the spearwives having a go at Theon for speaking Stark words ("winter is coming"). What's the deal there?

We don't know that Robb did name Jon his heir. He talked about it, and gave one of the glovers and big mamma mormont a bit of paper (and they are on a mission to Greywater Watch). But it isn't explicitly stated that this paper is his will.

I was expecting Glover and Mormont to resurface in this book... I want to see the Crannogmen kick some arse.

[Pete Cash]

characters who act against their nature and then die for it is a common theme in his work.

That said the North is BY FAR the most interesting part of the world at present. Especially when Littlefinger tries to bring Sansa in

[lotjx]

the book was just ok.

[lotjx]

Bringing characters back from the dead is more annoying then characters not acting right. Jon was ordered to renounce his vows which is a different thing then just renouncing his vows and just telling the Watch to go fuck themselves. He just went so deep undercover, he understands the wildlings better than anyone. I am just tired of all this betrayal for the sake of betrayal. Everyone in the Watch knows the Others are going to come. It also doesn't take a fucking genius to realize the less people the Others kill and turn along the way the less of an army they have to face at the Wall. If you want to talk about characters not acting the way they should, Jon's betrayal was my number one compliant. Even Jon comes back, he will stay take the black, because the vows mean something to him even if bends the rules a bit.

Danny being way too nice about shit was number two. Yes, I understand she views herself as a mother figure, but she didn't have to stay in Meerkeen. It just seemed like another famous GRR Martin stall tactic instead of moving her forward. Instead of her moving towards King's Landing we get the now back from the dead brother. That was so contrite. As well as Tyrion falling into one bad situation into another like he replace Arya for "Person who should be all rights get to their destination, but fucked almost impossible shit even in a fantasy story happens." I also hated Cersi's Jesus walk and the now almost certain way to get her back in the game.

There was some decent stuff like Arya getting her sight back, Bran finally getting to the Three Eyed Crow, Manderyls' plan to fuck up their enemies and Jon doing his thing on the Wall. The rest was just there and minus Danny finally getting out of her situation 800 pages into it, nothing really happens or at least nothing happens that I believe will stick. I also think Melisandre sent the not about Stannis and not Ramsey.

There was that adding shit, Alf?

[Cewsh]

Wow. That was shittily petty of you.

[Pete Cash]

to add to a point alf made

see i understand that GRRM uses the person going against his vows and DIES routine but Jon literally ignored the death of Ned, Robb, Bran, Rickon and the situation with his sisters and all it takes is one letter from a lunatic calling him a bastard to set him off :rolleyes:

[Alf]

Fuck me, I love the little details... Pete, check this shit out...


Theon needs to get himself a watch...


As the garrison broke it's fast on stale bread fried in bacon grease (the lords and knights ate the bacon), the talk along the benches was of little but the corpse.
"Stannis has friends inside the castle." Theon heard one serjeant mutter. He was an old Tallheart man, three trees sewn on his ragged surcoat. The watch had just changed. Men were coming in from the cold, stomping their feet to knock the snow off their boots and breeches as the midday meal was served-blood sausage, leeks, and brown bread still warm from the oven.

Theon is blacking out...

It has been theorized that the hooded man he meets who he doesn't recognise is in fact his own reflection...

...and that it is Theon who kills Little Walder, but doesn't rememeber it is him.

[One Man Gang]

Got the first five books in hardcover as an early birthday gift. Looking forward to reading them for the first time over the coming months.

[Judas Iscariot]

Effing A, OMG.

100 pages left in book 4. Excited to catch up to all of you and wait 6 years for the next book only for him to pull a Jordan.

BOOK 4 SPOILER. Please mention nothing beyond it, as it's just my reaction at the time.

For some reason, Brienne's death disturbed me more than the Red Wedding. Maybe because of how graphic it was, maybe because it was in the middle of nowhere, maybe because it was so FUCKING unexpected and when Gendry said friends were coming I fully expected her to meet Dondarrion and be reunited with Zombie Catelyn (she hasn't showed up, WTF? I'm sure I'll find out really soon... Maybe Brienne will come back to life, fucked if I know, if Dondarion and Cat are back to life... I love how it seemed like the Hound was back to life running around, I was convinced he was in with Beric now and then it was just this fuck head running around with his helm... nice touch...).

It was just so fucking heartbreaking. When Ned got his, there were two things: he was clearly too noble for the world he lived in, and it was only one book that he was around, so the connection wasn't built so long.

But three books in of probably the only other purely heroic character? The one that's gone through so much bullshit, been through so much, on this quest in the name of honor... She doesn't die rescuing anyone... The dies defending children by being smothered and eaten alive?

Just fucking brutal, man.

When the Red Wedding happened I was fucking numb, but somehow this feels different. I feel fucking sad right now.

ALSO, ARYA'S BLIND NOW?

WHAT THE FUCK?

Between this and word that FUCKING DAVOS IS DEAD and now MAESTER AEMON, at his last hour wanting to be with his kin as he gets word of the dragons... and having so many God damned Cersei chapters... Brutality... Flawless Victory...

Will tackle Dance, fly through it as fast as I can, and look forward to clicking the spoiler tags in here.

[Alf]

Take your time. Drink it in. It's all in the details.

[BabyBooboo]

Been reading the books this whole summer and just got through Storm of Swords. Yeah..my body was not ready for that. I'm gonna need some grief counseling after all this is done.

Anyways I took a peek at the chapter titles for Feast for Crows and what the hell? No Tyrion, no Dany, and no Arya or Sansa. I could see why a lot of people didn't like this. What do you guys think about it?

[Cewsh]

Feast for Crows and Dance of Dragons are one big book split in half, so half of the characters are in one book and half in the other taking place over the same general time frame.

[BabyBooboo]

Yeah and thankfully I got into the series this year so I can jump in to Dance immediately. Can't imagine how it must have been for people that waited 11 years to find out about Dany and Tyrion, etc.

What did you think of the book?

[Cewsh]

I haven't read Dance yet, but from what I read I found Feast for Crows to be unbelievably dull compared to the 3 books before it.

There are a few really interesting plot developments, but Storm of Swords was basically bedlam, and Feast doesn't really do much considering it took him like 6 years to write it.

From what I hear Dance is pretty interesting, though.

[Dubya]

So I finally finished book 1. Got pretty busy and had to put it down for a few days here and there.

One thing I never caught in the show at all was that Ser Jorah was the Lord Commander's son. I think its more because the book always uses their last names and the conversation with Jon about the sword was a little more in-depth in the book.. but yeah, definitely didn't put it together from the series.

[Alf]

Book 5 spoiler

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate what a badass Manderly is...

[Cewsh]

Not really a spoiler at all but...

The Red Viper would have wrecked him, his dad, and everyone they know.

[Alf]

This is known.

[Cewsh]

Just wanted to mention. :D

But yes, from what i've heard what you said is very much the case.

[Pete Cash]

The problem with book four is one of the plots involves something that has no tension in it whatsoever. Because the audience actually already knows how the plot will turn out because they know more than the character.

I'm on my phone because my computer needs a new charger and gotta wait for it to arrive in the mail. So I can't use spoiler tags but let's say its the chapters on a manish woman and her search for something.

Her chapters serve a purpose. Which is to show how the game of thrones is seen by normal people and GRRM actually makes a very good point from a historical point of view. They are utterly without tension though because we know her quest is.......* spoiler *

[Alf]

You'll have to expand on that a bit Peter, in spoiler tags... because:

If you are refering to her 'quest' to find Sansa as being the thing the audience are aware of then that is entirely the point. It doesn't need to have suspense and "Oh lol shit will she find sansa?" the whole point is that we know it is absolutely futile and she hasn't a hope in hell of finding her.

The point of her arc in that book isn't to create drama from her potentially fulfilling the promise of her search/quest at all.... at book 4 stage at least.Her arc is still in progress so we'll have to wait and see.




...and again, even though you are being vague it isn't fair on the people who haven't read it to put thougts into their head - and don't start with this "It's been out 6 years!" bullshit again. It is getting tired.

This is some low-grade, slow burn trolling shite you are pulling here sunshine.

[Cewsh]

I thought that her main role in the story was to be the real catalyst behind

Making Jamie a sympathetic character and getting back on his feet after he loses his arm. The rest is certainly true too, I just figured that was her primary purpose as a character.

[Pablo Diablo]

Cewsh

I'd say that was her main role in the 3rd book, but not so much in the 4th book. I agree with Cash that she was really just in there to show how the normal person was hit by the Game of Thrones.

[Cewsh]

I must have my books messed up then, because I didn't think she even showed up until Feast. My mistake.

[Alf]

Cewsh

I'd say that was her main role in the 3rd book, but not so much in the 4th book. I agree with Cash that she was really just in there to show how the normal person was hit by the Game of Thrones.

Yep, for the most part her role is as a tour guide of post-war Westeros. She's also part of GRRM's Genre sub-version in that the readers knows this lovely quest with a lovely sword is doomed to fail from the start, yet Brienne is blissfully unaware. We are the cynic who knows the world she is about to explore, and she is a wide eyed wanderer.

[Miotch]

Book 4 is dull as shit

[Alf]

I disagree.

[Pete Cash]

No there still needs to be suspense from an artistic point of view. He isn't writing a weighty philosophical text. It's supposed to be mainstream fantasy.why would you give a shit about spoilers in this case. The fact she is going to fail should not be considered a spoiler. That makes for some boring reading. We get it the game of thrones sucks for ordinary people but a good editor should have cut half of that shit.

[lotjx]

Miotch is not wrong. Same good be said about book 5, but since spoilers don't seem to fucking work and we have to use them, I will let it stand that I thought Book 5 was more stalling. We are two books away from this "end" and I feel we are even further away from before.

[thetony]

Going through Feast now. I noticed that it has ...

ARYA and SAMWELL chapters. I am content. Even if Jon is coming across as one big doorknob.

[Dubya]

Don't know if anyone mentioned it, but Amazon.com has the first 4 books in a set for like $20 now. Good deal.

[Judas Iscariot]

300 pages into Book 5. Please don't go beyond what I'm about to say.

So this Prince Aemon shit that's going on... Has that been mentioned anywhere else at all other than this book? Because it seemed to pop up out of fucking nowhere, unless I'm mistaken, which is likely, but it's out of fucking nowhere as far I know right now.

He's with the Golden Company, Tyrion is being dragged off by who I must assume is Jorah, but who knows...

I guess I just don't understand why the Aemon thing is going on... I don't recall mention of a son of Rhaegyr other than the Tower of Joy possible Jon connection, which he seemed to solidify a couple of books back, and now this other dude's just popping up...

I mean if it's been hinted at before, I guess it shouldn't be a surprise, but right now it's seeming completely out of nowhere, and I don't recall it, so please enlighten me.

[Alf]

300 pages into Book 5. Please don't go beyond what I'm about to say.

So this Prince Aemon shit that's going on... Has that been mentioned anywhere else at all other than this book? Because it seemed to pop up out of fucking nowhere, unless I'm mistaken, which is likely, but it's out of fucking nowhere as far I know right now.

It is hinted at all the way through the series

He's with the Golden Company, Tyrion is being dragged off by who I must assume is Jorah, but who knows...

I guess I just don't understand why the Aemon thing is going on... I don't recall mention of a son of Rhaegyr other than the Tower of Joy possible Jon connection, which he seemed to solidify a couple of books back, and now this other dude's just popping up...

You DO know who the kid is, and it has been absolutely spelt out how this came about. Don't skim. Read. It has nowt to do with the tower of joy.

I mean if it's been hinted at before, I guess it shouldn't be a surprise, but right now it's seeming completely out of nowhere, and I don't recall it, so please enlighten me.

Mine in bold...

[Dubya]

Book 2 here
So I just sat and read like 100 pages. Needed a break, but I'm soo hooked right now. I just got to the part where Catelyn is chatting with Renley when Stannis arrives.. and I thought I was pissed when I had to leave Arya and Gendry where they were! Lol. I'm really loving Tyrion as the Hand. He'll obviously be a very big part of season 2. This book, at least so far seems a lot more heavy on Bran & Arya than the last book.. which I like a lot. I think they're 2 of the more interesting characters, along with Tyrion. I think Bran is the one I'm most interested in. I like reading about his dream sequences and what he and Ricken's wolves are up to. I'm dying to find out if Nymeria eventually comes back to Arya. They're constantly being followed by wolves and it just makes me think that at some point they re-unite. I love these fucking wolves. They're the coolest part about the show for me.. which, by the way.. Season 2 is gonna be fucking awesome.

[Judas Iscariot]

Book 2 here
So I just sat and read like 100 pages. Needed a break, but I'm soo hooked right now. I just got to the part where Catelyn is chatting with Renley when Stannis arrives.. and I thought I was pissed when I had to leave Arya and Gendry where they were! Lol. I'm really loving Tyrion as the Hand. He'll obviously be a very big part of season 2. This book, at least so far seems a lot more heavy on Bran & Arya than the last book.. which I like a lot. I think they're 2 of the more interesting characters, along with Tyrion. I think Bran is the one I'm most interested in. I like reading about his dream sequences and what he and Ricken's wolves are up to. I'm dying to find out if Nymeria eventually comes back to Arya. They're constantly being followed by wolves and it just makes me think that at some point they re-unite. I love these fucking wolves. They're the coolest part about the show for me.. which, by the way.. Season 2 is gonna be fucking awesome.

Season/Book 2. No spoilers if you're partway through or haven't read, but don't read if you're not through Book 1.

Season 2 I think is going to be the make or break point for the series on TV, and all signs to me seem like it's going to make it.

Much like readers who had to deal with the end of the first book, I think a lot of people are going to start off season two pissed off wondering what the fuck are they supposed to do now...

And then shit's going to pick up and they're going to realize that this is on a different level from what you're supposed to expect when it comes to characters and all.

As you mentioned, suddenly you're taken away from Ned and you're realizing, "Oh, shit, his kids are actually really a part of this and interesting."

Bran, Arya and Tyrion are great characters because they're not supposed to be. One's a cripple, one's a little girl and one's a dwarf, and yet they hold your attention like you wouldn't believe.

FULL BOOK 2/SEASON 2 SPOILERS

Jaqen's casting seems brilliant to me. He even has a face that looks like it can change.

Xaro is a black dude now? Seems to make sense to me given the fact that he's from this exotic land across a vast desert; him being a pale poof who cries all the time never made a tone of sense to me.

Book 2 seemed like it was all setting up the pieces of a cyvasse board looking back (any idea if anyone's made that a game? because I'd play it).

I'm really, really interested in seeing how it's going to work out with viewers, but I guess narrow picture there's plenty of WTF.

BTW, I'd hit Melisandre. So hard.

[Wiganer]

I've just started reading A Game of Thrones, some book 1 spoilers don't read if you've not read it and don't want it spoiling.

Eddard has just been betrayed by Littlefinger and arrested, I don't want to read on because I know he dies :cry:

[Dubya]

Book 2
this whole casting shadows business that melisandre does sounds pretty fucking nuts.. can't wait to see that. Can't wait to see Joffery get hit in the face with shit either ahahaha. I knew renley would be the first king to fall.

[One Man Gang]

Book 4



I'm halfway through A Feast For Crows and I must say my interest level in this saga has taken a dramatic dive. I realize that these books start off slow and then pick up pace, but I have my doubts about the story right now.

There are too many new characters popping up and I'm having trouble caring about them. The red wedding sucked the air out of the story with the death of Robb. Don't get me wrong, it was thrilling to read, but the Starks were the backbone of this series and I'm having trouble locating them as they're scattered to the winds.

Also my favorite character, Tyrion is missing. While I'm shocked that Martin has gotten me to care about Jaimie Lannister, it's not enough.

One thing I am completely tired of is reading about some character coming upon a village, inn, or castle and being attacked by some random non-important bad guy. It is just too repetitive. I also find myself skipping entire sentences because I'm bored of reading about the history of some obscure house with a thousand lords and knights.

Who knows. Maybe at the end of this book I'll feel differently. Just a really slow start that has me jumbled.

[Judas Iscariot]

Book 4



I'm halfway through A Feast For Crows and I must say my interest level in this saga has taken a dramatic dive. I realize that these books start off slow and then pick up pace, but I have my doubts about the story right now.

There are too many new characters popping up and I'm having trouble caring about them. The red wedding sucked the air out of the story with the death of Robb. Don't get me wrong, it was thrilling to read, but the Starks were the backbone of this series and I'm having trouble locating them as they're scattered to the winds.

Also my favorite character, Tyrion is missing. While I'm shocked that Martin has gotten me to care about Jaimie Lannister, it's not enough.

One thing I am completely tired of is reading about some character coming upon a village, inn, or castle and being attacked by some random non-important bad guy. It is just too repetitive. I also find myself skipping entire sentences because I'm bored of reading about the history of some obscure house with a thousand lords and knights.

Who knows. Maybe at the end of this book I'll feel differently. Just a really slow start that has me jumbled.



Martin's setting up a pretty wide sweeping thing with Book 4. The trouble with the book is that there are so many new characters and places, and I really think it would have served everything better if he had interspersed the stories going on in 4 and 5, but I can understand why he didn't.

Rest assured, though, all of this serves a purpose, and if you give yourself up to and it don't worry about what's going on with Tyrion and the the north and everything, it can be great, and those new characters have plenty of meaning.

I felt the same exact way until I just gave into it. Patience, young grasshopper, it'll be work out.

Just be grateful you're not one of these poor bastards that had to wait 28 years from Book 3 to have to sit through Book 4 and then wait another 6 fucking years for Book 5 to get back to the likes of Tyrion, Jon and Daenerys.

I know I am. I don't know what I would have done with myself.

[One Man Gang]

Martin's setting up a pretty wide sweeping thing with Book 4. The trouble with the book is that there are so many new characters and places, and I really think it would have served everything better if he had interspersed the stories going on in 4 and 5, but I can understand why he didn't.

Rest assured, though, all of this serves a purpose, and if you give yourself up to and it don't worry about what's going on with Tyrion and the the north and everything, it can be great, and those new characters have plenty of meaning.

I felt the same exact way until I just gave into it. Patience, young grasshopper, it'll be work out.

Just be grateful you're not one of these poor bastards that had to wait 28 years from Book 3 to have to sit through Book 4 and then wait another 6 fucking years for Book 5 to get back to the likes of Tyrion, Jon and Daenerys.

I know I am. I don't know what I would have done with myself.

Book 4

Hahaha. I did notice the publication dates on the books were really spaced apart after book 3. Incredible how he could string fans of certain characters along for 11 years like that. I would have been enraged. Did he get sick or something? The picture on the jacket makes him look like Santa. Hope he lives long enough to finish the series.

I think for Book 4 I'm going to slow my pace down and try and get to know these new characters a bit more. Particularly the Dornish guys and gals. I've read their chapters, but I'm pretty sure I haven't digested it all. I might have been too hasty to get back to Dany, Jon, Tyrion, or even Bran at this point. Though I still sigh every time I read a chapter entitled "Brienne." Hopefully that will change as things pick up. :lol:

[Cewsh]

It took him like 5 years to write one big ass Book 4, way longer than any of the first three. Rather than release it as this enormous tome he decided to cut it and half and release part two a year later. So Feast came out. Then he decided he didn't like Dance and wanted to rewrite it.

Cut to 5 years later...

[lotjx]

I would like to see what he had in originally in mind for Dance since to me, its the weakest one. 1000 pages of cock teasing.

[thetony]

900 pages into Book 4.

I really enjoy the Greyjoy story. Victarion is great, and I may go as far as to say that the Greyjoy's presence is what is keeping this book interesting to me. It's too bad that Aeron/Victarion's chapters are too few and far in between.

Sansa and Cersei's chapters have almost made me want to shoot myself. Fortunately I just read through the chapter where Cersei tries to set up Margaery and her many fornicating crimes through Osney, but ends up getting fucked over herself. Get some, bitch.

The Dornish storyline is so-so. I can't really find myself getting too attached to Arianne, but instead find myself wishing there was more story and dialogue about the bastard Sand Snake daughters of Prince Oberyn.

All in all, I can't wait to finish this book up and move on to A Dance with Dragons. Only to ead the whole series over again one more time.

[Dubya]

I'm starting A Storm of Swords today.

A Clash of Kings
Man, I have to say.. FUCK YOU THEON. YOU DESERVED WHAT YOU GOT! I was surprised to see Stannis get defeated at the end of the book. Sucks that Tyrion has been made to be apparently even uglier. Poor guy. Insane that the Starks are being even further seperated now. Interested to see what Jon does now that he's 'joining' Mance Rayder. Didn't see that part coming.

I can't fucking wait to see the battle scene at the end of the book in season 2 of the show.. I don't know how the fuck they're gonna do it, but they've said there's pretty much no way to leave it out .. should be epic.

Anyone have like a FULL map of the world.. with where Danaerys is included.. ?

[Pablo Diablo]

Nope there has been no official map of the east. People have made guesses and we had hoped this latest book would have one, but nope.

[Dubya]

Seven Hells !!

lol

So I guess Danaerys is just really, really, really far away then, eh?

[Alf]

Mik is not happy...

He just got to:


The red wedding...

[Cewsh]

That's what makes it almost impossible to reread the books for me.

ENORMOUS Late Book 3 Spoiler. Do not fucking read this if you have not completed Book 3, seriously, fuck off.

Just reading as everything leads inevitably to the Red Wedding with Rob dying and Catelyn turning into a goddamn zombie is just impossibly depressing.

[Judas Iscariot]

That's what makes it almost impossible to reread the books for me.

ENORMOUS Late Book 3 Spoiler. Do not fucking read this if you have not completed Book 3, seriously, fuck off.

Just reading as everything leads inevitably to the Red Wedding with Rob dying and Catelyn turning into a goddamn zombie is just impossibly depressing.

BOOK 3 FULL SPOILERS

It's the single most disturbing thing I've ever read in my life. IN MY LIFE. Just absolutely gutting. And mean. It's just MEAN.

[Judas Iscariot]

100 pages left in Book 5. Will finish it tomorrow.

SPOILERS UP UNTIL THIS POINT. PLEASE DON'T RUING ANYTHING FOR ME.

And suddenly I'm finding myself rooting for Theon Greyjoy throughout this book?

And when he meets with Asha in the middle of the storm, when he says, "Theon. My name is Theon. You have to know your name," I'm going YEAHHHHH THEON????

What the fuck?

[Judas Iscariot]

Oh my...

FULL BOOK 5 SPOILERS

Really?

I mean, really?

And yet, I can't blame the Watch for it. You can't let all of the wildings into the realm, tell the Watch that they're going to go run off to save some more where the Others are stalking, and that you're then going to lead the wildings off south into the realm.

You just can't.

And yet, in the battle against the Others all men must stand as one...

But really? Jon's dead now?

I don't believe. I believe he'll be back. How many people have had chapters end with them apparently dead and then they're back?

Plus, if you look at the bits about the houses at the end, Jon's name isn't in brackets. After all of the other books, when a character is dead, his name's in brackets to indicate he's diseased.

It's going to be a LONG fucking wait now. A real long fucking wait.

Fuck.

And now what's the point? All of the intrigue between him possibly being Targaryen, possibly being the Ice to Dany's fire.

And what the fuck's up with her now?

Who wants to take bets to see how many books the last two actually turn into? So much fucking shit going on, it's not going to get closed in two books.

And how long until cyvasse becomes playable? Because I need to play that.

[Judas Iscariot]

Regarding a previous Alf post:

FULL BOOK 5 SPOILERS

I think the wildings do have a respect for Snow and for the Watch and by extension the Starks as well. They've always been the closest tied to the Watch, and I think the wildings do have a respect for a formidable opponents; they select their own leaders and have a healthy respect for strength.

What I think Jon's problem was is he was just as stupid as Ned.

He thought the men of the Watch would do the honorable thing, which is hooking up with your fellow men against a common foe that threatens the entire realm... Only thing is their vows and their perceptions of everything beyond the Wall forbid them from seeing what the real problem was.

The wildings seemed much more receptive to the idea of linking up with the south... They've been on the front lines the whole time, and spend all of their time trying to get beyond the Wall to safety.

WHY CAN'T EVERYONE JUST GET ALONG?

FUCK

And you know what pisses me off?

You know what pisses me off? For all of his killing off characters and everything, it all served a purpose but I really, truly believed that he was going to let it be known that Jon was, in fact, Rhaegar's son, and there was going to be this whole dramatic thing with him and Dany and all this shit between them and it was setting itself up for all this great story-telling and actually make it like a classic fantasy epic in the end...

And now the best character's dead. And Dany's flitting around in no-man's land, and now this fucking Aegon is just up and about and Connington brings him over to Westeros and I'm just like FUCK.

And I don't know what the FUCK he's going to do with Bran. It's cool, but what the FUCK is he going to do with him now? And where the fuck is Rickon?

There are so many open MAJOR storylines that are never, ever going to be closed in two books.

Five years from now we're going to get another book focusing on King's Landing and Aegon (or whatever the fuck his name is... The inbred Targaryens all have the same names...) with a note at the end saying, "Yeah, welp, I didn't know what the fuck to do, so there's going to be at least three more books after this, which are going to take 6 years a part to finish, and oh, by the way, that's another 20 years of writing, and I'll be 96 by then... So yeah... What was the name of that guy who finished A Wheel of Time?"

I'm so glad Tolkien was already dead when I started The Lord of the Rings and that he had everything compact and DONE.

This tale's never going to end.

I bet the last book ends on some open-ended thing where some new fucking dragon hatches in the Summer Isles to some long-lost ship-wrecked Iron Islander whose great great great grandmother fucked some Targaryens great great great great grandfather, and it's going to lead to a slew of official fan fiction shit that goes on and on and on.

[Judas Iscariot]

Just read a theory

FULL BOOK 5 SPOILERS. NOTHING REALLY BEYOND, JUST THEORY, BUT FUCK

Haven't hit any board or anything at all since starting Dance, but just did and the first thing I came about was this theory about Mormont's Raven:

First, that Jon is actually the descendant of Brynden Rivers, legitimized Targaryen bastard and former Lord Commander of the Night's watch, also a warg and speaking through the raven to Jon. Note that the raven picks up quite an advanced vocabulary (for Ravens) in this book.

Also, the raven has said a couple of times, "Corn. King." Which is apparently some Celtic mythological whatever about a king who died all throughout winter and was reborn during the spring.

The Winds of Winter...

into

A Dream of Spring...

So Jon will be dead the whole next book only to come back in the last one... Presumably with Bran, Rickon, Sansa, Arya, Robb, Catelyn, all the wolves, Brandon the Builder, the guy who mopped up the horse shit in Winterfell... And kick some ass.

Fuck. I just want Jon around. That's all I want. I want to have sex with him, too.

[Pete Cash]

book 5 spoilers

if jon is dead then we have spent the best part of 10 years reading about a character for no reason. that would be the dumbest artistic decision OF ALL TIME !!!!!!

but yeah the north is where all the action is. love the stuff in the north. if the starks had half a brain they would have wiped out the boltons decades ago

[lotjx]

Yes to everything Pete said.

[Judas Iscariot]

book 5 spoilers

if jon is dead then we have spent the best part of 10 years reading about a character for no reason. that would be the dumbest artistic decision OF ALL TIME !!!!!!

but yeah the north is where all the action is. love the stuff in the north. if the starks had half a brain they would have wiped out the boltons decades ago

BOOK 5 SPOILERS

It would indeed be a horrible waste, and it just doesn't make any sense to boot. I want to trust that he knows what he's doing, and I want to believe Jon is still alive, but waiting this fucking long after I burned through the books at a click is maddening.

The north IS where all the action is. That no one understands that makes me so fucking angry. No one in the books, I mean.

[Pete Cash]

The dumb witch will just bring him back to life and he will be that dumb bloke reborn and then blah blah blah skip to the end of the books and everyone dies when a meteor strikes the kingdom and he ends the books with the line. thanks for reading lol and a picture of some child pornography he has drawn

[Judas Iscariot]

The dumb witch will just bring him back to life and he will be that dumb bloke reborn and then blah blah blah skip to the end of the books and everyone dies when a meteor strikes the kingdom and he ends the books with the line. thanks for reading lol and a picture of some child pornography he has drawn

:lol:

Also, I just realized Theon had all his junk cut off.

[Pablo Diablo]

Judas (so book 5 spoiler)

You're not the only one as I've seen many people not get that right away, but considering the things I miss when I read through I even picked that one up. Part of why GRRM is a twisted ass motherfucker.

[Alf]

Judas...

Did you 'get' the Frey pies made by Manderley?

[Hlebsfall]

I'm part way through the second book, I've been enjoying it so far. Doesn't really do much for the stereotype that all fantasy readers are basement dwelling neckbeard paedos, what with all the incest and children fucking, but it's good other than that.

[lotjx]

I just have a hard time with it being in the top 5 of the all time greats of sci-fi/fantasy. Considering its not even finished yet. http://www.sliceofscifi.com/2011/08/17/npr-releases-100-sci-fifantasy-books-list/

[One Man Gang]

Okay, I just finished Book 5 and here are my thoughts.




Much better read than Book 4. Martin did not balance the two books well.

Jon is not dead. Mellissandre will revive him or else there's some other mystic force that will do it.

I think Davos is off looking for Rickon, right?

Glad to see Varys back with his creepy children of the damned.

The scene with Frog being burned alive should be fun to watch on the show. Felt bad for him though.

I have no idea what awaits Jaimie when Brienne brings him to zombie Cat. Is she just going to go on about how they failed her or whatever? I hope she dies again.

Dany is just going to have to save Westeros from the other Targaryian.

[Matty C]

I just read Book 1 this month. It was pretty good, really good in parts. I've started book 2 now.

Thoughts on book 1 (I'm behind, I know):


They killed off two of the coolest characters. :( Eddard and Drago were great. Although Eddard's sense of honour was almost suffocating, like a little kid that can’t see shades of grey in things. I honestly felt that his death was as much his fault as Cersei’s. Drago’s death seemed to at least in part be Danny’s fault for trusting the Maegi.

Lysa might be my least favourite character but then we’re obviously supposed to dislike her. Sansa is up there too for being so mind-numbingly stupid.

I like Jon quite a bit and I liked Robert. Tyrion is also quickly becoming a favourite of mine.

Quirky fact, my e-reader normally tells me the percentage that I am done a book. However, since this series came as a package, it’s showing me the percentage I am done the series (or as much of it as I downloaded, I can remember how many books). So for the first little while, not knowing that, I thought this was the longest book in the history of the written word.

[Judas Iscariot]

BOOK 5 SORTA SPOILERS

Anyone else think that with greyscale being mentioned so much in this book that the story's gotten too fucking big and he's just setting us up for, "Oh, shit, what I do.... Oh, I know, everyone gets the plague and dies! LOL. Thanks for reading."

[Bad Collin]

Just finished book 5


Surely Jon will just live inside Ghost for a bit. He will probably take human form again, the bit about sixskins at the start is an interesting inclusion given Snow's fate.

[Dubya]

I just read Book 1 this month. It was pretty good, really good in parts. I've started book 2 now.

Thoughts on book 1 (I'm behind, I know):


They killed off two of the coolest characters. :( Eddard and Drago were great. Although Eddard's sense of honour was almost suffocating, like a little kid that can’t see shades of grey in things. I honestly felt that his death was as much his fault as Cersei’s. Drago’s death seemed to at least in part be Danny’s fault for trusting the Maegi.

Lysa might be my least favourite character but then we’re obviously supposed to dislike her. Sansa is up there too for being so mind-numbingly stupid.

I like Jon quite a bit and I liked Robert. Tyrion is also quickly becoming a favourite of mine.

Quirky fact, my e-reader normally tells me the percentage that I am done a book. However, since this series came as a package, it’s showing me the percentage I am done the series (or as much of it as I downloaded, I can remember how many books). So for the first little while, not knowing that, I thought this was the longest book in the history of the written word.

Have you watched the series yet, Matty? You should now that you've read book 1. Its quite good.

I actually lost book 3 for a lot of my vacation and I was pissed too.. found it a couple days ago though. About 700ish pages in..

WTF JUST HAPPENED?!?!?!?! Robb.. Catelyn.. Arya.. :mad: I am not happy about this. I AM NOT HAPPY. I actually gasped when I read the part about Robb & Catelyn. I GASPED!

[Matty C]

No. I have to wait for my wife to catch up, then we'll watch season 1 of the TV series.

[Cewsh]

Have you watched the series yet, Matty? You should now that you've read book 1. Its quite good.

I actually lost book 3 for a lot of my vacation and I was pissed too.. found it a couple days ago though. About 700ish pages in..

WTF JUST HAPPENED?!?!?!?! Robb.. Catelyn.. Arya.. :mad: I am not happy about this. I AM NOT HAPPY. I actually gasped when I read the part about Robb & Catelyn. I GASPED!

Ooh, that's rough times, buddy.

I almost feel like their should be a support group for people who get to the Red Wedding for the first time. It changes a man.

[Dubya]

Ooh, that's rough times, buddy.

I almost feel like their should be a support group for people who get to the Red Wedding for the first time. It changes a man.

Yeah, I can see why. I kinda figured that something bad was gonna happen at The Twins, but not that. I seriously like stopped for a minute out of anger and like forced myself to keep reading.. AND THEN ARYA!!!! I still think she's alive for some reason.. I know the last thing I read was her taking an axe to the back of the head, but I'm still holding out that she makes it.. like Tyrion after the battle in Book 2.. and I'm also still holding out that she finds her wolf again.

The next chapter where Joffery speaks out against Tywin really intriuged me a lot. Joffery seems to be getting tired of being told what to do.. he is the king after all.. but he's also clearly batshit crazy and has no clue of what consequences and strategy are.

Reading the books really makes me realize that HBO is putting a lot of stock into these younger actors because they seem to really inherit the series as it goes on.

[LOCONUT]

Should be done with book 2 by the weekend. The last half of this book has been brilliant.

[Hlebsfall]

Right, I've polished off the second book, great stuff. Going to plough straight into the 3rd.

[Hlebsfall]

HODOR

[Judas Iscariot]

HODOR

[Dubya]

HODOR! HODOR! HODOR!

[Judas Iscariot]

hodor?

[Dubya]

Hodor.

I think they really dropped the ball on introducing Hodor in the first season.. they didn't really explain who the fuck he is. He gains a bigger role as the series goes on, not bigger lines obviously.. more dramatic HODORS perhaps, but nothing else.. I really had no clue who he was until I read the book.

[Hlebsfall]

That actor has the easiest job in the world. So then sir, here's your script. Just a post-it note with HODOR written on it

[Dubya]

the wall is yours, jon snow.

[Matty C]

I finished book 3 on my way into work today. Thoughts:

I’m not quite as gutted as some people seem about the Red Wedding but it was undoubtedly shocking. I kind of figured out what was about to go down when he kept going on about the loud terrible music and how drunk everyone seemed. It also seemed obvious to me that Robb was heading for death seeing as he was no longer heeding the warnings of Grey Wind. Catelyn was a bit more shocking but what else could happen with her being in the middle of everything and right on the edge of madness even before Robb’s death.

Zombie Catelyn is pretty fucking shocking though. I worry that he’s jumped the shark with that one but I’ll read on and see.

I’m worried that they’ve ruin Tyrion as well. He was my favourite character and I loved his run as the Hand of the King. He got some redemption with his assassination of Tywin but now where does he go?

Jon Snow is probably my favourite character now that Tyrion has been diminished (insert joke here). I like where his story is heading right now although I assume Stannis is not going to be happy about him rebuffing his offer.

Davos has turned into a nifty character but much like Eddard I can see his black/white view of things eventually leading to his downfall.

Daenarys has really come into her own. I was shocked at her banishing Ser Jorah and didn’t see the reveal of Barristan the Bold coming. Actually that side of the book has surprised me more often than the Westeros gang has lately.

I find Bran kind of boring. My interest in Arya varies from situation to situation. Why isn't Sansa dead yet? With that said, the continuous beating the Starks take is pretty brutal. Winter is coming indeed.

I agree that Jamie Lannister is the man by the way. His redemption is a really interesting part of the series thus far. I hope he ends up with Casterly Rock.

[Judas Iscariot]

Found an interesting theory on The Others.

Spoilered because I forget when certain names are dropped in the series:

The Others are actually ancient aliens that came to the planet and took it over, and all of the stories of Azor Ahai, The Prince that was Promised, The Stallion that Mounts the World, the Great Shepherd, etc... They're all just different culture's names for a messianic figure that drove them away a la the Bhagavad Gita.

And the Doom of Valyria was the aliens first point of attack before they were defeated.

HOWEVER, some other aliens landed north of The Wall, slumbered under ice a la Lovecraft's Cthulu Mythos in Antarctica.

THAT'S TOTALLY WHAT IT IS

DVDA, BACK ME UP ON THIS

[Cewsh]

So not just zombies, but ALIEN zombies?

Consider the shark jumped.

[Matty C]

I'm most of the way through the fourth book now and honestly, that's not totally out of the question from what I've seen thus far Judas. :lol:

[Judas Iscariot]

I'm sold on it.

I wonder if History Channel will do an episode on it.

[Matty C]

I finished book four yesterday. Thoughts:

Like many, I felt it was a bit of a stall for the next book but I think that having read some general comments about it being slow helped ease my expectations.

I like the Dornish thus far.

I like Jamie quite a bit and his continued redemption is a one of my favourite parts of the book. I hope that he continues to distance himself from Cersei, who is an idiot, and that the final scene in the book wasn’t just a tease.

Cersei is just a total fool, blinded by her own vanity. She’s incredibly heavy handed about everything and blames any resistance to her heavy handedness as sexism. Perhaps it’s just that you aren’t very bright or that your ideas suck. I was quite pleased that she was taken at the end. How could she not see that coming?

Arya’s story just continues to get more bizarre as the books go on. I was kind of checking out on that story in book three because of how ridiculous it was getting and now with this bizarre faceless man stuff, I’m just not sure he can pull me back in. It’s all in the end game though, if he can make it all come together and seem meaningful I’ll come back around.

Brienne’s death didn’t really bother me. She seemed like a completely pointless character to me, just filler personified. I guess she helped to further Jamie’s development but did we really need to invest that much time in her for that? Otherwise I found her pretty dull, although it was a bit shocking that Zombie Catelyn killed her off. I assume there is no good left in Catelyn then between her decision and Thoros’ comments.

I’m not sure what to make of the Iron Born. I like Victarion. Asha is alright. Crow’s Eye I’m not sure of yet. Sort of in the same vein as Brienne though, I wonder what the point of them is currently. Obviously there is an end game coming though so, again, in time it may all seem worth it.

That pretty much sums up the whole book really. It seemed like a lot of pointless stuff for now and I just hope he can somehow give it all purpose in the next few books.

Does anyone else feel like we might get Zombie Brienne at some point?

That was the end of the original four e-book set I bought. I’ll have to pony up the dough for book five over the weekend.

[Mik]

Ok, caught up.