I'm Gonna Ramble On V4-ahhhhhhh!

[Ace Rockola]

Huh. That doesn't sound as good as V1-ahhhhh!

Vice said there needs to be a new one of these, and I'm the perfect man to do it as I first came up with the idea for this damn thread.

So, these WWE Top Rope shirts are pretty fucking badass. Back at No Way Out I was going to get an Edge "Easy being sleezy" shirt but they sold out. So my lady told me she'd order me one off of Shopzone. I thought she forgot til the FedEx guy just show up an hour ago. And she upgraded it to the Top Rope one (it's the black one Edge wears on TV) and it's quite nice. Cool stuff.

Plus she tossed in a Mania 25 poster. :yes:

[mth]

Does it still have the ugly 'WWE Authentic Wear' tag on the bottom corner?

[Hero!]

What the difference between the regular and the "Top Rope" shirts?

[Ace Rockola]

Does it still have the ugly 'WWE Authentic Wear' tag on the bottom corner?

Only WWE logo is where the tag should be. :yes:


What the difference between the regular and the "Top Rope" shirts?

The stuff on the shirts appears to be made a lot better. My Santino shirt chipped within a week. They're not as think as some WWE ones, they just overall fit better.

[Zen]

Tappy, what feud or whatever in 94 could be considered bigger than the reign the Hitman was enjoying throughout that year, especially in the summer at it's peak?

[PurePlayer]

Owen vs. Bret was probably the biggest feud that year no? I guess Undertaker vs. Yokozuna/Fake Undertaker overshadowed it in certain instances.

[UncannyIowan]

Tappy, what feud or whatever in 94 could be considered bigger than the reign the Hitman was enjoying throughout that year, especially in the summer at it's peak?

I don't know who Tappy is, but I know this is stemming from a comment I made about Bret's title reigns.

Shawn Michaels v. Razor Ramon

Here's another reason why I thought Bret's title reigns didn't seem as important as they should have--Diesel beating a guy who took Bret to the limit at SS '94 in less than 10 seconds. Bret couldn't beat Backlund, but Diesel could in 8 seconds?

Not to mention how time the search for the Undertaker seemed to take up.

[Zen]

I really dont think so. I'm honestly trying my damndest to recall anything more significant.

Taker/Yoko was more early 94 anyway, before Hart nabbed the title. I'm talking while Hart held that title belt, what got or seemed to receive more effort and time? A better billing?

And Tappy would be TapOut.

I dont even think Razor/Shawn was bigger. It got mingled afterwards with Jarrett and Kid.

[Ochoa]

Lex Luger vs. Tatanka!!!! Alright maybe not, but I like Tatanka.

[PurePlayer]

During the summer and fall it was definitely Bret vs. Owen and Bret vs. Backlund, however, the Undertaker match usually closed out the show.

But Shawn/Diesel vs. Razor Ramon doesn't even come close. That was nothing more than a midcard feud.

[UncannyIowan]

I really dont think so. I'm honestly trying my damndest to recall anything more significant.

Taker/Yoko was more early 94 anyway, before Hart nabbed the title. I'm talking while Hart held that title belt, what got or seemed to receive more effort and time? A better billing?

And Tappy would be TapOut.

I dont even think Razor/Shawn was bigger. It got mingled afterwards with Jarrett and Kid.

Uh, you sure you're not thinking of 1995? Razor and Shawn feuded the majority of 1994, all the way up until Shawn and Diesel's split at Survivor Series 1994......Think about this as well, how many ppv's did Bret Hart main event when he was World champion in 1994? Zero. I'm not talking about when he WON the title, but the 3 that followed-KOTR, Summerslam, and Survivor Series

[TapOut]

I really dont think so. I'm honestly trying my damndest to recall anything more significant.

Taker/Yoko was more early 94 anyway, before Hart nabbed the title. I'm talking while Hart held that title belt, what got or seemed to receive more effort and time? A better billing?

And Tappy would be TapOut.

I dont even think Razor/Shawn was bigger. It got mingled afterwards with Jarrett and Kid.

Maybe you're right. I guess there wasn't much going on in '94 other than Bret, and the Bret/Owen and Bret/Backlund stuff was pretty good. I guess I'm thinking more of 1993 when his reign ended crappily.

In 1997 though, his reign was pretty jacked. He won the belt in an excellent match at Summerslam and defended it against Taker in another excellent match, and things were looking good, but it was downhill from there until Survivor Series.

[PurePlayer]

Uh, you sure you're not thinking of 1995? Razor and Shawn feuded the majority of 1994, all the way up until Shawn and Diesel's split at Survivor Series 1994......Think about this as well, how many ppv's did Bret Hart main event when he was World champion in 1994? Zero. I'm not talking about when he WON the title, but the 3 that followed-KOTR, Summerslam, and Survivor Series

Did you really watch in 1994? Shawn vs. Razor was over the IC title, and Shawn/Diesel didn't really start until the end of 1994 into Mania 11. Hardly what Zen is talking about.

[UncannyIowan]

Did you really watch in 1994? Shawn vs. Razor was over the IC title, and Shawn/Diesel didn't really start until the end of 1994 into Mania 11. Hardly what Zen is talking about.

Actually yeah I did, enough to know that the storyline with Razor/Jarrett wasn't until 1995.

Razor and Shawn was a big deal, you being 8-9 years old might not remember too much about it but it was a huge storyline-even if it was over the IC belt, which at the time was probably more important than the World title.

Bret and Owen was huge, but it never got the proper treatment, usually opening a ppv or in the midcard somewhere is where you'd find Bret and the WWF title, while Piper v. Lawler or Taker v. Brian Lee headlined others.....B.S. if you ask me.

[MichaelC]

I really dont think so. I'm honestly trying my damndest to recall anything more significant.

Taker/Yoko was more early 94 anyway, before Hart nabbed the title. I'm talking while Hart held that title belt, what got or seemed to receive more effort and time? A better billing?


Taker/Yoko didn't conclude until Survivor Series that year, when it main evented.

[PurePlayer]

Actually yeah I did, enough to know that the storyline with Razor/Jarrett wasn't until 1995.

Razor and Shawn was a big deal, you being 8-9 years old might not remember too much about it but it was a huge storyline-even if it was over the IC belt, which at the time was probably more important than the World title.

Bret and Owen was huge, but it never got the proper treatment, usually opening a ppv or in the midcard somewhere is where you'd find Bret and the WWF title, while Piper v. Lawler or Taker v. Brian Lee headlined others.....B.S. if you ask me.

So Shawn vs. Razor was a bigger deal why? You are contradicting yourself here. You give reasons why Bret vs. Owen wasn't the top feud, but then Shawn vs. Razor was a bigger deal for those very same reasons? Wasn't that always in the middle of the card, and wasn't that for a midcard title? I do remember 1994 pretty well even tough I was only 9 at the time, it helps that I own almost every ppv during that span.

[UncannyIowan]

So Shawn vs. Razor was a bigger deal why? You are contradicting yourself here. You give reasons why Bret vs. Owen wasn't the top feud, but then Shawn vs. Razor was a bigger deal for those very same reasons? Wasn't that always in the middle of the card, and wasn't that for a midcard title? I do remember 1994 pretty well even tough I was only 9 at the time, it helps that I own almost every ppv during that span.

Don't limit yourself to just one of my examples. IMO Shawn v. Razor's feud was booked better than anything Bret had going on in 1994, it seemed they put more effort into it...probably because Owen/Bret had started a year prior in '93 so it was pretty easy to keep that ball rolling. Bret not headlining ppv's is another example, I didn't say Shawn and Razor were, that's irrelevant....I'm pointing out various factors as to why Bret's reign was not considered as important as say Undertaker. I'm not contradicting myself at all. You don't have to be main eventing to have the top feud, but you should be main eventing if you are the World champion over matches like Roddy Piper v. Jerry Lawler and fake v. real Undertaker..

[Atty]

...and Shawn/Diesel didn't really start until the end of 1994 into Mania 11.


Not really true at all. They had been slowly building up Diesel/Shawn for quite awhile over that time, with Shawn's jealously as Diesel surpassed him as he won the IC (and later WWF) title.

I wouldn't necessarily say Razor/Shawn was bigger going into X, but I can definitely see the argument, as it was one of three matches heavily promoted going in (the others being Bret/Owen and Lugar/Yoko.) I'd say Bret was the bigger deal, as his feud with Owen was heavily promoted and he was built for the main event against an unknown opponent at the same time. Bret really was the biggest thing in the company, having to work every front possible. At the same time, it's not nearly as big a deal as you make it out to be.

[PurePlayer]

They were teasing a feud. However, the feud didn't really start full steam until Survivor Series 1994. You are also using one example with Shawn vs. Razor and that's Wrestlemania 10, the same ppv that Bret Hart main evented, and the same ppv that built Bret vs. Owen big time. After Wrestlemania 10, Shawn vs. Razor turned into Diesel vs. Razor. If you look strictly at the summer and after months of 1994, Shawn vs. Razor was finishing off and/or turning into Diesel vs. Razor and Diesel vs. Shawn. Therefore, Shawn vs. Razor doesn't even make sense if you look at the time frame Zen is referring to.

[Atty]

They were teasing a feud. However, the feud didn't really start full steam until Survivor Series 1994. You are also using one example with Shawn vs. Razor and that's Wrestlemania 10, the same ppv that Bret Hart main evented, and the same ppv that built Bret vs. Owen big time. After Wrestlemania 10, Shawn vs. Razor turned into Diesel vs. Razor. If you look strictly at the summer and after months of 1994, Shawn vs. Razor doesn't even come close. That was the time frame that Zen was pointing to.


The fact that they were "teasing" Diesel/Shawn was building to the match. Basically the whole time after Diesel won the IC title and Shawn started to bring in his new bodyguard.

[EDIT]Read initial post wrong.

[PurePlayer]

Bret's feud with Owen and Backlund were running on full steam at that point though. Shawn/Diesel was being hinted at, and was never given more exposure/importance than anything Bret Hart was involved in. Even the actual breakup of Shawn/Diesel at Survivor Series 94 wasn't near the level of that "throw in the towel" match between Bret vs. Backlund.

[Zen]

Yeah, I got my kid and JJ timeframes mixed up there for whatever reason.

But while Bret was champ..which is what the whole point of this debate is, I dont think any other feud took a higher billing or held more importance.

Shawn and Razor was always for the IC title and even during the summer months was not getting more time or attention. Take a look at SS. Take a look at how they managed to incorporate the family into the shows, not just Stu or Helen, but how Neidhart came back, Davey Boy was siding with Bret.
The Taker storyline got some attention but it was really just some filler pieces with Leslie performing some detective work. The match certainly was just a means of getting Taker back and allowing Dibiase something to do.

The Piper/King stuff grabbed some interest, but with Piper, he comes back every now and then, and with his name he is not going to settle coming back and just being given a minor role. However, I dont think the feud carried much heat as Lawler wasn't exactly on the same level as the guys we are all discussing here.

[Atty]

But while Bret was champ..which is what the whole point of this debate is, I dont think any other feud took a higher billing or held more importance.


His match with Backlund, where he lost the title at SS '94, was in the midcard. Right?

[Zen]

His match with Backlund, where he lost the title at SS '94, was in the midcard. Right?

I cant recall, but even if it was, I dont see the big deal here.

Rock/Hogan wasn't the last match on the card of WM18, but you know what took centre stage there.

[Atty]

Rock/Hogan wasn't the last match on the card of WM18, but you know what took centre stage there.


Jericho main eventing? ;)

Taker/Yoko got the main event at SS '94, btw. It's not a big deal and I generally agree with you here. My only point of contention is the notion that there was no build to Diesel/Shawn until after SS. You're not saying that, I know, but they had been teasing a feud for quite awhile before the actual breakup.

It's like saying that nothing should count towards the Batista/HHH feud until after Dave left Evolution, which is rather stupid as they had been building a feud between them for months before. As was the case with Diesel/Shawn.

[PurePlayer]

Jericho main eventing? ;)

Taker/Yoko got the main event at SS '94, btw. It's not a big deal and I generally agree with you here. My only point of contention is the notion that there was no build to Diesel/Shawn until after SS. You're not saying that, I know, but they had been teasing a feud for quite awhile before the actual breakup.

It's like saying that nothing should count towards the Batista/HHH feud until after Dave left Evolution, which is rather stupid as they had been building a feud between them for months before. As was the case with Diesel/Shawn.

I agree with that, but the fact that they were in the early stages of their feud makes my point even furthur in why Bret's feuds were booked with more importance because they were running full steam.


His match with Backlund, where he lost the title at SS '94, was in the midcard. Right?

And Shawn/Diesel/Razor's match was the curtain jerker. Like Zen said, it doesn't really matter if Bret vs. Backlund was in the middle of the card. They probably wanted the show to end on a good note for the fans and Chuck Norris was being featured in the main event along with Taker vs. Yoko II.

[PurePlayer]

edit

[spongemonkey007]

Kind of off topic but I was feeling nostalgic today and stuck in Mick Foleys DVD and watched some matches on it. It just struck me that when Stone Cold Steve Austin came out and knocked The Rock out with a chair to help Foley win the title was how big that pop was when his music came on. People were emotinaly invested back then and I just wonder if it will ever get back to that again. Now I am not trying to bash the product as is or anything I just wanted post that thought.

[Morrison]

Kind of off topic but I was feeling nostalgic today and stuck in Mick Foleys DVD and watched some matches on it. It just struck me that when Stone Cold Steve Austin came out and knocked The Rock out with a chair to help Foley win the title was how big that pop was when his music came on. People were emotinaly invested back then and I just wonder if it will ever get back to that again. Now I am not trying to bash the product as is or anything I just wanted post that thought.

it was like that during hogan's peak as well. there are hills and valley's in nearly every form of entertainment, and pro wrestling is not exempt.

[UncannyIowan]

The recent biggest pop I can remember from someone on the current roster was John Cena's surprise return at the '08 Royal Rumble. But that Austin pop when he came out distorted my t.v. speakers on 11, and my shit goes up to 70. Funny, I was just watching disc one of that DVD with Cactus v. Vader.

[Morrison]

The recent biggest pop I can remember from someone on the current roster was John Cena's surprise return at the '08 Royal Rumble. But that Austin pop when he came out distorted my t.v. speakers on 11, and my shit goes up to 70. Funny, I was just watching disc one of that DVD with Cactus v. Vader.

the flowing free association here really did my head in, ahaha.

[xpacnumber1fan]

I didn't watch it, but I heard that Cena's initial pop changed to boos once though. I'm sure it went like...

"OH MY GOD IT'S CENA!!! AHHHHH!!!!"

........

"Oh my God. It's Cena. BOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!"

I'd say Punk's when he cashed in the MITB was the most emotionally invested pop in recent times.

[Cewsh]

What about the pops that Triple H and Shawn Michaels were getting when they were teasing the reuniting of DX?

[Morrison]

What about the pops that Triple H and Shawn Michaels were getting when they were teasing the reuniting of DX?

none of them stand out in my mind, but to be honest, that whole angle is incredibly fuzzy in my memory, for some reason.

[Matthew]

the rock just appearing on the jumbotron was pretty huge but i dont think thats too recent.

[chotliwala]

I didn't watch it, but I heard that Cena's initial pop changed to boos once though. I'm sure it went like...

"OH MY GOD IT'S CENA!!! AHHHHH!!!!"

........

"Oh my God. It's Cena. BOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!"

That's pretty much exactly what it was like at the ROH show on Saturday when
Jimmy Rave came out. Crowd stands up and cheers with the "Welcome Back!" and then proceeds to throw toilet paper at him.

[mth]

So, I drew this picture of Kevin Thorn after hearing his recent radio interview and becoming his friend on Facebook:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/mth1022/THORNcopy.jpg

He just wrote me a message, saying he thinks it's awesome and praising my artistic ability, and asked me to design his new Brotherhood logo. :hyper: :D :panic:

[chotliwala]

Hoeker FTW motherfuckers.

Can you draw one of Nigel for me?!?!?!?

[mth]

I am FTWing left and right and center the past couple of weeks.

I can, but I've got a lot lined up right now. Doing this for Thorn, just finished my Flair for Cewsh, have three more paintings lined up (for $$$!!), but I will put it in line, if you'd like.

[chotliwala]

:lol: IF I'D LIKE?! Seriously, ask Lem about some of the things I said this weekend. Like ask him in private because I'm guessing he'd feel bad about saying "yeah he was a little weird with the whole Nigel stuff". I mean, I made his non-wrestling fan watch the video of me and Nigel (PG 13) twice.

[Sparky]

I was gonna reply to the PM, but I thought I'd just do it here. Incredible stuff, mth. I always enjoy your artwork.

Artwork of my man-crush is even better. :heart:



Anyways, kinda random, since its the Ramble thread....WWE should do more outdoor venues. I always loved when WCW did shows at that club, and love that atmosphere of WM24 and the Troops shows.

[blackening]

So, I drew this picture of Kevin Thorn after hearing his recent radio interview and becoming his friend on Facebook:


He just wrote me a message, saying he thinks it's awesome and praising my artistic ability, and asked me to design his new Brotherhood logo. :hyper: :D :panic:
Awesome stuff. Cool to hear you get to do his new logo. :yes:

What program did you do that in?

[Deka]

WWE should do more outdoor venues. I always loved when WCW did shows at that club, and love that atmosphere of WM24 and the Troops shows.

They need to add Bash At The Beach to their list of pay-per-views. Make it an annual outdoor event at notorious beach vacation locations like Miami and Daytona.

[blackening]

I think that would be pretty cool. I remember the Bash at the Beach one year in WCW had like fake sand and a lifeguard tower. I know this only because there is a match between Jericho and Mysterio on Rey's DVD that took place there.

I wouldn't mind a Halloween themed Halloween Havoc PPV either. Just for something different.

I remember a WCW show taking place outside at I believe Universal Studios. Again, Malenko/Mysterio from Rey's DVD.

[Deka]

I wouldn't mind a Halloween themed Halloween Havoc PPV either. Just for something different.
That would definetely be cool. I always liked the Halloween Havoc pay-per-view theme and the whole setup in general. As long as they don't sway too far away from the WCW concept (because WCW was spot-on with the presentation), I'd love that.


I remember a WCW show taking place outside at I believe Universal Studios.

I think they aired Money Nitro outside at Disney Studios for a good stretch of time back in the day if I'm remembering right.

[Sparky]

The Hog Wild/Road Wild shows, while the fans really didn't give a shit, actually had a very very cool feel to them.

[mth]

Thanks for the compliments, guys. I made that picture in Photoshop.
I'll let you know how the logo goes, I've gotten started on it already.

[blackening]

Thanks for the compliments, guys. I made that picture in Photoshop.
I'll let you know how the logo goes, I've gotten started on it already.
I really wish I could do that. I'd love to see all your layers and how you did everything. I'm really shitty at drawing and stuff like that in Photoshop.

[mth]

I really wish I could do that. I'd love to see all your layers and how you did everything. I'm really shitty at drawing and stuff like that in Photoshop.

Practice makes perfect.
It's funny, when I started at art school, I was convinced I was not going the digital route, and that'd I'd only use traditional media...
...and here I am, now, making probably 75% of my stuff entirely in Photoshop.

[blackening]

What is your job? Or are you talking about non-work related stuff?

[mth]

Yeah, I'm just talking about stuff I'm doing for myself. The majority of the freelance stuff I've done has been traditional media (paintings, murals, etc.) and only a couple of digital logos and whatnot.
I don't have a job, other than freelance artist, at the moment.

[blackening]

Thanks, I was just wondering. :yes:

[toady]

Yeah, I'm just talking about stuff I'm doing for myself. The majority of the freelance stuff I've done has been traditional media (paintings, murals, etc.) and only a couple of digital logos and whatnot.
I don't have a job, other than freelance artist, at the moment.

Not trying to sound like a suck up, but have you considered putting some of these together and sending them to either WWE or TNA?

Some of these wouldn't look out of place in WWE kids magazines, and that Kevin Thorn is fucking golden.

If i were you i'd throw together a pack of your best current WWE stars and send it in.

[Andy Wild]

The Hog Wild/Road Wild shows, while the fans really didn't give a shit, actually had a very very cool feel to them.

Nah, they ruined the show. Road Wild 96 at that Motorbike convention thing was ruined by the racist fans, dodgy lighting and constant revving of motorbikes. Good show, ruined by dumb fans.

[Sparky]

Nah, they ruined the show. Road Wild 96 at that Motorbike convention thing was ruined by the racist fans, dodgy lighting and constant revving of motorbikes. Good show, ruined by dumb fans.

They did ruin the show, but something about the venue and overall aura of the show makes it alright.

Like I said, I'm a sucker for an outdoor venue.

[MichaelC]

WrestleMania 13
The "Lost it's Smile" Mania

The Free for All match was Billy Gunn vs Flash Funk. Once more, I am delighted that the pre-show match is missing from my copy.

Headbangers v Furnas/LaFon v the NEW Blackjacks v Godwinns. Henry and Phineas are still faces here, before LOD (legitly?) broke Henry's neck and they unfairly wanted revenge for this. The NEW Blackjacks are godawful. Bradshaw is still relatively green looking here, but still stiff as hell. Furnas and LaFon, I keep telling the Other Half, are really good, but every match we happen to see they're not on in. And they're not here either. Didn't really do too well in the WWF. The other half, for reasons unknown to me, really likes the Headbangers. She perks right up whenever they appear, "they're mad", apparently.
The match starts, a few tags happen, then before you know it two teams are out, the NEW Blackjacks to some silly DQ and Furnas and Lafon to a countout at the same time. This sort of thing really annoys me. If you advertise a fatal way way ELIMINATION match, and then two teams get counted out 2 minutes into a 14 minute match, I just feel cheated. I wanted eliminations and attrition, goddamit, not fools errand Dusty finishes.
That said, the match does pick up once its down to the Godwinns and the Headbangers, and the crowd are massively into it. Actually, this match was pretty damn alright. Maybe the two tag teams here are underrated? Or it's the traditional "It's Mania, pull up the socks" thing. Decent opener. There's been plenty better though.

Rocky Maivia v The Sultan. The Rock was a more legit IC Champ 10 months from this, and WWF Champion 20 months from this. Which just goes to show that that guy has to be one of the greatest success stories in wrestling history, without a doubt, because he's bloody hopeless here. Smiling inanely, doing moves for no particular reason, overselling. The crowd don't buy it. Rikishi is still in his period between the Headshrinkers and being the Ass man where no one cared about him.
Both of these guys went on to be much better. A Rikishi/Rock match in 2000 for example, was far superior. Here, one's green as the newly budding hills, and the others got a rubbish gimmick. So the men on the outside - Backlund, Iron Sheik, Rocky Johnson - have more talent than the men in the ring, at this point in time. That's a huge problem.

HHH v Goldust. I think their match at the Rumble was better. This one seemed to drag on far too long. What was good was good, but I'd have taken five minutes off this one (and it would have been much better) and added it to the tag title match...which just tells you something.

The Slammies. Oh, the Slammies. Owen, we miss you.

Altogether now...

"WOOOO! I win again. Yes. This is the greatest moment of my life. And I have no one to thank, because I did it all by myself. Bulldog, you may have two titles, but you don't have two Slammies!"

Except better.

Owen/Bulldog v Vader/Mankind.

There are times in WrestleMania history where you look at the participents in a match, and you just know it will be great. This is one of them. Owen well and truly get his ass kicked here, as Mankind and Vader take turns to play the "who can hit Owen with harder offence" game, and Owen has his completly serious shoes on during the beatdown, making everything look devastating. Bulldog gets to outboss Vader, but Mankind out does him and then Vader starts, well, beating everyone up. I think even Vader and Mankind have a wee contratong in the midst of it all. The whole thing is fast, frenetic, pacy, wonderful. Just four great wrestlers going at it tooth and nail. And, naturally, at one point, Mankind gets hit with the....



ENZIGGGGGGGGGURRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIII!


Which is always cool. Silly Double C/O finish, but I'm willing to tolerate that for the greatness that passed. This match went nearly 20 minutes. I'm not kidding: I could have happily watched it continue for another ten or more. It had the makings of an all out classic, and had it gone that bit longer, and had a proper finish, WrestleMania 13 would be regarded as a 2 match card instead of the 1 that it is. Oh, and Mankind/Vader attack Bulldog after the bell, but Owen goes to check his Slammies are safe before going to make the save for Davey. I'll admit it, Owen the heel is probably one of my top 5 favourite wrestling characters in history.

Everyone knows about the match to come, but really, people, go watch that match above.

Bret v Austin. How do you sum up this? Steve Austin walked out of this a bonafide main eventer, the man who would be face of the company, and arguably the most popular man in the company. Bret Hart walked in the biggest face in the company, and walked out the biggest heel. For those reasons alone, let alone the fact that it is a great match, this is one of the most important matchs in the history of the WWE, with one of the most important finishes to any wrestling match, ever. And it's required viewing for every single wrestling fan who lives.

I think that sums it up quite well, don't you?

Oh, and I don't quite get to say it this year, but since I only get three chances: "Shamrock, he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer."

LOD and Ahmed vs The Nation. Ahmed vs The Nation was such a great fued, that its really a shame that the wrestler - Ahmed - was terrible. The whole thing is great, until it gets in the ring. LOD are past their best here, Crush is too (sadly), but both Faarooq and Savio were quite good. What we have is a complete mess. Ahmed wins but the war goes on. Ahmed was really really over. As in massively over. People not watching at the time will find it hard to believe just how MASSIVELY over Ahmed Johnson was. And I love how the Nation v Ahmed fued went right into the swerve after the King of the Ring (another great RAW moment). It's just a real shame that, as a wrestler, Johnson wasn't really up to much, and his attitude allegedly wasn't all that much better. Otherwise, he could have been one of the biggest stars in wrestling, quite possibly.

Taker v Sid. When I said he'd never have an opponent as bad as Bundy I forgot about this. Now I like Sid. He's a good laugh for promos, he's great when he's just randomly walking around powerbombing people and talking about the end of the world. But he's not WrestleMania main event, and he never should be. It's like Nick Frost winning a Best Actors Oscar - alright for a laugh, but should be nowhere near the main prize with their talents and abilities.
Taker wins the belt however, and that's great. Shawn comes out, hobbles around, then stops hobbling, then hobbles again. I call shennanigans myself. Then Bret comes out for a right moan. That's the best bit of the match really. But Taker has the belt, and about time too. So the match is irrelevant when the result is so pleasing.

Overall
2 great matches, and the rest was forgettable. I think there's a precedent for that. C+ you say?
Yep, Mania 13 get a C+.
It's alright, but I'll give the final word to the other half.

"That was alright, but it really wasn't WrestleMania level. It seemed like a longer version of RAW."

[Deka]

Ahmed Johnson coming out in Road Warrior gear and The Undertaker winning the championship were the only good parts of that show.

[Jimini]

Gonna post this in the Mania thread too..
Why no revelation as to who would induct The Fink into the HOF? Or was my copy of ECW just lacking that info?
I'd suggest that Okerlund would be a decent bet.

EDIT: Also, with the Kid Rock News and all...

Do they still play that Lonely Road Of Faith video package at the start of televised events?

[PurePlayer]

Ahmed Johnson coming out in Road Warrior gear and The Undertaker winning the championship were the only good parts of that show.

:wtf:

Bret vs. Austin?

[IB]

I loved Ahmed Johnson. He was like Lashleys dumb, out on his luck so he might steal from you, uncle.

[Badger]

We were talking about Randy Savage rapping at work today, god knows why.

Anyway, here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UoChk5pZIQ

[One Man Gang]

We're sorry, this video is no longer available.

[Deka]

:wtf:

Bret vs. Austin?
Personally, I'm not a fan of that match. I know everybody seems to think it's the cat's meow. But, I didn't like it when I watched it as a kid and I still don't. I like the double turn and how it is a match that helped to propell Austin further as a character (and the blood stained scream is a classic wrestling visual), but I'm just not a fan of the match.

[Badger]

Hmmm, sometimes that happens to me. Must be to do with this embedding videos.

Anyway, tlk this link into Youtube and you'll see it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UoChk5pZIQ

[One Man Gang]

I used to own the Wrestlemania album. The first time I listened to it I was at a friends house. We liked the wrestlemania rap, but then the album turned gay in the bad way.

[Badger]

The very first cassette I owned in the dark ages before CDs I got by sending away ringpulls to Coca-Cola. It had the Wrestlemania song on it along with Take That "Could It Be Magic", Shaggy's "Oh Carolina", Stevie V "Dirty Cash" and Robin S "Show Me Love"

Whenever Hacksaw sang my brothers were like "I got my fake foam rubber 2x4!"

[Deka]

Savage is better than Soulja Boy. That's for sure.

[mth]

Not trying to sound like a suck up, but have you considered putting some of these together and sending them to either WWE or TNA?

Some of these wouldn't look out of place in WWE kids magazines, and that Kevin Thorn is fucking golden.

If i were you i'd throw together a pack of your best current WWE stars and send it in. Perhaps I will do that someday. I've thought of it in the past.

[Deka]

You should seriously about it, mth. You have alot of talent. It should, in turn, be making you alot of money.

[mth]

Well, as of this very moment, I cannot work due to my pending permanent resident application, but once I get all my immigration junk squared away and can legally be employed, I will start looking into stuff like that. :yes:

[Badger]

Are you allowed to freelance?

[mth]

I do stuff for cash. I'm not supposed to freelance, technically, but I do, 'cuz they aren't really going to know. Oh, crap, I just let the cat out of the bag. I hope no Canadian gov't offical people are members of this board.

[One Man Gang]

I do stuff for cash. I'm not supposed to freelance, technically, but I do, 'cuz they aren't really going to know. Oh, crap, I just let the cat out of the bag. I hope no Canadian gov't offical people are members of this board.


So you're saying this is your tag team nightmare?


http://sp3.fotologs.net/photo/35/12/10/wwf_superstars/1174330393_f.jpg

http://www.joesportsfan.com/jsfpics/columns2/irs.jpg

[mth]

Pretty much. But if my tag partner is Kevin Thorn, I might be ok...

[One Man Gang]

http://fwrestling.com/host/EWOW/Mordecai.jpg

[mth]

Hear me, fear me, baby, WOO!

I have Kevin Fertig's personal e-mail address. :cool:

I'm eagerly awaiting Cactus Lem coming in here and taking a massive dump all over my Thorn-related interests.

[Badger]

I do stuff for cash. I'm not supposed to freelance, technically, but I do, 'cuz they aren't really going to know. Oh, crap, I just let the cat out of the bag. I hope no Canadian gov't offical people are members of this board.

I would tell my great-uncle, the mayor of Fergus, Ontario.

The big stumbling block is that he's dead.


Hear me, fear me, baby, WOO!

I have Kevin Fertig's personal e-mail address. :cool:

I'm eagerly awaiting Cactus Lem coming in here and taking a massive dump all over my Thorn-related interests.

I have Glen Jacobs' personal email address.

*opens umbrella*

I mean I wish I had it.

[Zen]

Personally, I'm not a fan of that match. I know everybody seems to think it's the cat's meow. But, I didn't like it when I watched it as a kid and I still don't. I like the double turn and how it is a match that helped to propell Austin further as a character (and the blood stained scream is a classic wrestling visual), but I'm just not a fan of the match.

What didnt you like about it considering the whole story arc of the match that led to the double turn, which you seem to have liked, worked so perfectly? Just curious is all.

[Sparky]

Hear me, fear me, baby, WOO!

I have Kevin Fertig's personal e-mail address. :cool:

I'm eagerly awaiting Cactus Lem coming in here and taking a massive dump all over my Thorn-related interests.

ftw, We are the Brotherhood, baby. :heart:

EDIT: I probably should close down the London and Kendrick fan club, eh?

[mth]

FOR THE BEATEN, BRUISED, PICKED ON AND ABUSED! :headbang:

[Biohazard]

As much as heels are praised over here I always like the dynamic, and changes that a wrestler indures when the switch to the face character. For instance, after this whole Edge ordeal...I believe he will turn face. I have never seen apparently Edge's great face run from 2002/3 so I would be interested in seeing him in that role again...espcially since he's more main event tier now, and his 2004/5 face run was so boring.

Randy Orton would be another I'd like to see at a face run...be geeze how would that work now...that be one heel of a turn

[mth]

I have no interest in seeing Orton or Edge turn face. Both are too good as heels.

[RockOverBoston]

I have no interest in seeing Orton or Edge turn face. Both are too good as heels.

What's more, I'm not sure that turning Orton face at this point wouldn't require a pretty extensive and possibly ridiculous effort.

[PurePlayer]

I have no interest in seeing Orton or Edge turn face. Both are too good as heels.

Very true, but I don't want to see them remain heels forever. They will turn face eventually, especially when the WWE decide to turn guys like Cena, HHH, and Batista heel.

[PurePlayer]

What didnt you like about it considering the whole story arc of the match that led to the double turn, which you seem to have liked, worked so perfectly? Just curious is all.

Austin vs. Rock at WM 17 is probably in my 10 favorite matches of all time. I just don't see a single thing wrong with it.

[Cewsh]

Very true, but I don't want to see them remain heels forever. They will turn face eventually, especially when the WWE decide to turn guys like Cena, HHH, and Batista heel.


Can anyone give my a reasonable reason to EVER turn Cena heel other than that it "would make him cooler"?

Ten years from now is one thing, but seriously. It would be like throwing away bags full of money because you wanted some newer, prettier money.

[mth]

Thinking about it more, I guess I'd be ok with Edge as a face, in due time, if done right. But it'd have to be drastically different than his last face run. They could keep the "opportunist" character, but use it to put him over as smart and calculating, a "seize the moment" guy who is crafty and intelligent. Maybe also push him a little more into the crazy territory, too.

[Zen]

Austin vs. Rock at WM 17 is probably in my 10 favorite matches of all time. I just don't see a single thing wrong with it.

That's a good match somewhat ruined imo by the ending with Vince and all.

But really, I just wanted Deka's thoughts on the Bret/Austin match.

[PurePlayer]

I misunderstood the post. I thought he was talking about Mania 17 for some reason. But yeah Bret vs. Austin would go into my top 10 as well.

[PurePlayer]

Can anyone give my a reasonable reason to EVER turn Cena heel other than that it "would make him cooler"?

Ten years from now is one thing, but seriously. It would be like throwing away bags full of money because you wanted some newer, prettier money.

Maybe to improve the product as a whole? I actually think we would get better programming if he were to turn heel. Plus, people who didn't buy his merchandise before might start buying his merch as a heel. Obviously the WWE would lose money in the merchandise department, but they could make it up with Orton's merch rising and the overall programming being better.

[Cewsh]

Maybe to improve the product as a whole? I actually think we would get better programming if he were to turn heel. Plus, people who didn't buy his merchandise before might start buying his merch as a heel. Obviously the WWE would lose money in the merchandise department, but they could make it up with Orton's merch rising and the overall programming being better.


Yeah, why would the programming magically be better if Cena turned heel?

What would he do? At best he would ruin the importance of Orton or Edge's top heel run, and at worst it would flop and Cena's drawing power would die. Either way, his enormous merchandise and branding abilities fade considerably, and WWE gets rid of the main appeal to young people and women, aiming him, instead, towards the needs of 18-24 year old males, who are watching this shit already.

No. Not valid.

[MichaelC]

Maybe heel Cena would have a magic wand?

Or he could bring back Phantasio, who would have supplied the wand?

[UncannyIowan]

I've figured out the heel Cena issue.

I think people just want to hear Cena rhyme again. Heel Cena was only cool because of his diss raps, and that ultimately gave WWE the green light to go ahead and turn him face because the fans love it. As much as people shit on the "rapper" gimmick, heel and face that's when Cena was his most popular. It wasn't until he stopped rhyming and started saluting and going over Kurt Angle that the other half of the building turned on him.

Nowadays though, the last year, he's been getting solid pops, enough to have the WWE continue the road he's on. Let's be honest, they're smart, they don't take fans' opinions as the be all end all decision. Cena, Rey, Jeff Hardy, they are faces for a reason. I used to think Cena needed a heel run, but that was before Randy Orton really stepped up, before Jericho came back, they (WWE) just lacked depth in the heel side. Now they've got it, not to mention guys like Miz and Morrison, JBL came back for a minute. Keep Cena face.

[Deka]

What didnt you like about it considering the whole story arc of the match that led to the double turn, which you seem to have liked, worked so perfectly? Just curious is all.
The match, itself, bored me. And, as a little kid, I was a pretty big Bret Hart fan, so, on the other end, I was not the biggest Stone Cold Steve Austin fan at the time that he started fucking around with Bret. In fact, I hated Austin at the time and wanted him to just go away. I was pissed that Bret was even having to face him in a match at Mania at the time. And when the crowd turned on Bret during the match, that really pissed me off.

And, I guess, those childhood feelings have kind of folded over into my adulthood perspective, as well. Just have bad memories connected with that particular match. But, I do understand it's significance and appreciate it for what it is. Just would never put it on my list of favorite matches.

[Cewsh]

Fair enough.

AES at work.

[Deka]

Can anyone give my a reasonable reason to EVER turn Cena heel other than that it "would make him cooler"?


I've figured out the heel Cena issue.

I think people just want to hear Cena rhyme again. Heel Cena was only cool because of his diss raps, and that ultimately gave WWE the green light to go ahead and turn him face because the fans love it. As much as people shit on the "rapper" gimmick, heel and face that's when Cena was his most popular. It wasn't until he stopped rhyming and started saluting and going over Kurt Angle that the other half of the building turned on him.

Nowadays though, the last year, he's been getting solid pops, enough to have the WWE continue the road he's on. Let's be honest, they're smart, they don't take fans' opinions as the be all end all decision. Cena, Rey, Jeff Hardy, they are faces for a reason. I used to think Cena needed a heel run, but that was before Randy Orton really stepped up, before Jericho came back, they (WWE) just lacked depth in the heel side. Now they've got it, not to mention guys like Miz and Morrison, JBL came back for a minute. Keep Cena face.
Uncanny got to it before I could and just took the words right out of my mouth here.

The Cena character was massively over as a heel rap gimmick. When he used to talk with more slang and bust out freestyles on people all the time.

Then, they turned him face, slowly transformed him from the rapper to the marine and did this, all the while, continually shoving him into the faces of the WWE fans. People started to get pissed that the Cena they felt they were being "forced" to accept as the top guy wasn't the same guy that they had fallen in love with as a heel. So, alot of people have it in their minds.. even if they don't realize it.. that by turning Cena heel, he will suddenly retract back to the freesyling rapper that they all fell in love with in the first place.

That's basically the only reason I am for a Cena heel turn. Just because it sounds cool. That's it. There is nothing else pushing my desire for it, honestly. If you told me that if they were to turn Cena heel today that he'd go back, full force, into the rap gimmick, I'd be all for it. Because that's when I really enjoyed him the most.

No doubt, Cena is well beyond where he was during those years though, so there is no real argument for it taking him to another level, because he got to another level with a much more watered down character.. whether I, or anyone else, likes it or not. Turning him heel at this point is the equivalent of turning the "Hulk Hogan" of your company into a heel. It's a very big deal and something that has to be handled with caution. But, it should definetely happen, one day. Like, once they actually build up some more young, credibility babyfaces to the main event level and actually keep them there.

[mth]

:hyper: I'm calling Kevin Thorn tomorrow to discuss compensation for designing his logos. I finished the Brotherhood logo, and he's also asked me to design a new one for his ring gear.
I'm sorry, but I just have to brag a little. I know he's not a huge star or anything, but he's a favorite of mine, and I'm freakin' e-mailing/talking to him and designing his logos. This is just a little AWESOME for me.

[Biohazard]

Did he go back to the vampire gimmick?

[Sparky]

:hyper: I'm calling Kevin Thorn tomorrow to discuss compensation for designing his logos. I finished the Brotherhood logo, and he's also asked me to design a new one for his ring gear.
I'm sorry, but I just have to brag a little. I know he's not a huge star or anything, but he's a favorite of mine, and I'm freakin' e-mailing/talking to him and designing his logos. This is just a little AWESOME for me.

And I thought I was doing well with him personally welcoming me to the BROTHERHOOD.

[Cewsh]

:hyper: I'm calling Kevin Thorn tomorrow to discuss compensation for designing his logos. I finished the Brotherhood logo, and he's also asked me to design a new one for his ring gear.
I'm sorry, but I just have to brag a little. I know he's not a huge star or anything, but he's a favorite of mine, and I'm freakin' e-mailing/talking to him and designing his logos. This is just a little AWESOME for me.


Dude, that's so insanely rad.

[mth]

Did he go back to the vampire gimmick?
Not exactly sure. He's got The Brotherhood going on, and from what I gather, based on iterviews, he's going to be dark and brutal, but I'm guessing not a vampire, just goth and badass, fighting for "the broken, bruised, picked-on and abused!"

And I thought I was doing well with him personally welcoming me to the BROTHERHOOD.


Dude, that's so insanely rad.

:cool: This is one of the coolest things to happen to me, I must say. I'm totally buzzing, and have been since he first started talking to me about it. I can't believe I'm going to talk to the dude on the phone and make this stuff for him. IT'S LIKE A DREAM WORLD, MAN!

I have to try REALLY HARD to be calm, cool, and professional on the phone tomorrow while I'm spazzing like a little girl on the inside.

This is the Brotherhood logo I designed:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/mth1022/brotherhood_logocopy.jpg

[Defrost]

Alpha/Omega?

[mth]

Yep, that's part of it. Not sure what the significance of them are, but they were on his original drawing and he asked me to include them. Could be tied to the religious aspect, but I'm not sure.

[Ace Rockola]

I'm watching the last SmackDown going in to Mania 17 on 24/7. It's of course all sorts of awesome, but quick thing I was noticing and had totally forgotten about. Vince making Debra Rock's manager. Was there ever anything more pointless than that? I know later in this show they do an angle or something where Vince pulls her from Rock's corner, but Jesus, can you imagine that the talentless bimbo was a part of one of the biggest moments of all time?

[toady]

:hyper: I'm calling Kevin Thorn tomorrow to discuss compensation for designing his logos. I finished the Brotherhood logo, and he's also asked me to design a new one for his ring gear.
I'm sorry, but I just have to brag a little. I know he's not a huge star or anything, but he's a favorite of mine, and I'm freakin' e-mailing/talking to him and designing his logos. This is just a little AWESOME for me.

........tell him to put in a good word for Toady next time he talks to Shelly Martinez.:evilgrin:

Nah, but seriously, that's fucking awesome.

[Mike Russo]

Man I miss La Resistance. Rene Dupree had the look and decent promo skills. I especially dug the French Phenom gimmick.

[Jimini]

Gonna post this in the Mania thread too..
Why no revelation as to who would induct The Fink into the HOF? Or was my copy of ECW just lacking that info?
I'd suggest that Okerlund would be a decent bet.

EDIT: Also, with the Kid Rock News and all...

Do they still play that Lonely Road Of Faith video package at the start of televised events?

Well I called it :D

In a blog on the WWE Universe, Howard Finkel said he will be inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame by fellow Hall of Famer "Mean Gene" Okerlund the night before WrestleMania XXV. "The Fink" said he's glad to be recognized by the company for the passion he brought to his job as a ring announcer.


As much as heels are praised over here I always like the dynamic, and changes that a wrestler indures when the switch to the face character. For instance, after this whole Edge ordeal...I believe he will turn face. I have never seen apparently Edge's great face run from 2002/3 so I would be interested in seeing him in that role again...espcially since he's more main event tier now, and his 2004/5 face run was so boring.

Randy Orton would be another I'd like to see at a face run...be geeze how would that work now...that be one heel of a turn

Ho ho ho.
I have no interest in seeing either as a face.
Edge was terrible as a face and Orton is just too damn good as a heel.


I have no interest in seeing Orton or Edge turn face. Both are super sexy magnificent as heels.

:yes: :shifty:


Thinking about it more, I guess I'd be ok with Edge as a face, in due time, if done right. But it'd have to be drastically different than his last face run. They could keep the "opportunist" character, but use it to put him over as smart and calculating, a "seize the moment" guy who is crafty and intelligent. Maybe also push him a little more into the crazy territory, too.

:yes: Certainly nothing like the last blandest man on the planet push.
Definite need to keep the evolution of his character alive :yes:


Man I miss La Resistance. Rene Dupree had the look and decent promo skills. I especially dug the French Phenom gimmick.

I miss Rob Conway :(

[Jimini]

In other ramblings...

ECW has the best theme music of all three brands.

:yes:

[chotliwala]

MTH FTW


That logo looks pretty nice just from a graphical aspect. In a weird way it reminds me of Goldar from Power Rangers. I loved his wings.

[Jimini]

Poll now added to 'Just who IS Mr Wrestlemania' thread. :beer:

Go vote bitches!

[IB]

There you go spreading your propaganda in another thread Jimini. Tisk. Tisk. Furthermore, the answer is the Undertaker - No poll needed. :) Bitches:)

[Zen]

Not exactly sure. He's got The Brotherhood going on, and from what I gather, based on iterviews, he's going to be dark and brutal, but I'm guessing not a vampire, just goth and badass, fighting for "the broken, bruised, picked-on and abused!"

[/IMG]


Man, he may as well just come out to something from My Chemical Romance or some such shit.

[mth]

He's way cooler than that. He's like frikkin' Batman.

[kangus]

But not Christian Bale Batman. That Batman sounds like he has throat cancer.

[Chris]

I'm watching the last SmackDown going in to Mania 17 on 24/7. It's of course all sorts of awesome, but quick thing I was noticing and had totally forgotten about. Vince making Debra Rock's manager. Was there ever anything more pointless than that? I know later in this show they do an angle or something where Vince pulls her from Rock's corner, but Jesus, can you imagine that the talentless bimbo was a part of one of the biggest moments of all time?
That angle, along with Undertaker and Kane vs Austin and HHH, is one of my favourites in terms of episodic wrestling television. Where you just can't wait to see the next show to find out what happens. The week where Rock gets stunned at the end both on Raw and Smackdown was fantastic. For all of Michael's Cole's faults, he had some wonderful commentary on the aftermath of Austin vs Angle. Rock runs in to get some payback on Austin (after Austin accidentally bashes the holy hell out of him with a chair while he's swinging for Angle), Angle intervenes and gets Rock Bottomed, only for Rock to turn around into a stunner.

"How will The Rock retaliate?!? There could be hell to pay for Austin!".

And you just wanted to see next week's Raw right then and there. In the years that followed, WWE shows tended to close with a match that didn't have very many consequences. The faces or heels won and they celebrated. End of show. You'd be interested in seeing the developments next week, but you weren't chomping at the bit to see someone get their comeuppance. That's why I really the Two Man Power trip angle after Wrestlemania X7, because you just wanted to see Austin and HHH get their asses handed to them and we were denied it every single time. Even when we finally see Taker and Kane go toe-to-toe with them in the 8 man tag, Austin and co win the match by pinning Matt Hardy. I've never felt that kind of electricity from a wrestling storyline since then.

[JJM]

I'm watching the last SmackDown going in to Mania 17 on 24/7. It's of course all sorts of awesome, but quick thing I was noticing and had totally forgotten about. Vince making Debra Rock's manager. Was there ever anything more pointless than that? I know later in this show they do an angle or something where Vince pulls her from Rock's corner, but Jesus, can you imagine that the talentless bimbo was a part of one of the biggest moments of all time?

If I remember correctly she was a big part of that angle. I remember the interview where Austin told Rock if anything happens to Debra it was Rock's responsibility and she somehow got hit then out came Austin with a stunner to Rock. So she did serve a purpose.

[virms]

Tell him to come to rajah mth. :hyper:

[Hero!]

What's going on here? Why is mth talking to Kevin freaking Thorn?

[One Man Gang]

If I remember correctly she was a big part of that angle. I remember the interview where Austin told Rock if anything happens to Debra it was Rock's responsibility and she somehow got hit then out came Austin with a stunner to Rock. So she did serve a purpose.


Yeah, they actually planned on using her during the main event of WM17 but dropped it. They also planned on Shawn Michaels getting involved in the Taker/HHH match, but apparently he wasn't in any condition to participate.



I always felt bad for Haku though. He was tagging with Rikishi at the time and Rikishi was out with an injury. They likely would have had a tag match of some sort had their luck been better.

[mth]

What's going on here? Why is mth talking to Kevin freaking Thorn?

'Cuz I'm awesome. :cool: He may not be calling me today, might be calling tomorrow.

Also, if you want to know why, just go back a page or two.

[One Man Gang]

The real answer is because mth is Kevin Fertig. mth stands for Mordecai Thorn.

[mth]

You've found me out. I'm designing logos for myself, and waiting for myself to call myself.

[Cewsh]

mth, you were the bomb as Mordecai.

Did you ever nail Ariel in her vampire getup?

[mth]

In it. Out of it. In other getups. You name it. Bowchikawowow.

[IB]

I miss Ariel. Thinking fondly of her while I fondle my keyboard.


Your a lucky man mthster.

[mth]

I'm not sure I can keep this charade going much longer.

I mean, uh....HEAR ME, FEAR ME!

[Deka]

mth, one last quick question.

I've just always wanted to know..

Does she use her teeth when she.. uh.. ya know.. ?

[mth]

Chews her food?
Bites into an apple?
Smiles?
What?

[Deka]

..takes the south-bound trail..

..pushes "1" on the elevator..

..scubadives without the gear..

..goes down to Chinatown..

[mth]

*crucifix powerbomb*

[Hero!]

*ninja rko*

[mth]

That was a *jealous rko* is what that was. Jealous that me and Kevin Thorn are like best friends and business partners now.

[Deka]

*three-legged headscissors takedown*

[Cewsh]

*three-legged headscissors takedown*

:wtf:

That would be...disturbing.

[Deka]

I think we've all done it to our significant others atleast once. :dunno:

[One Man Gang]

:wtf:

That would be...disturbing.



If you had four arms you could give a full nelson and a bearhug at the same time.

It's so frustrating to know that we're a long way off from mutant wrestling.

[Sparky]

If you had four arms you could give a full nelson and a bearhug at the same time.

It's so frustrating to know that we're a long way off from mutant wrestling.

That would take 6 arms...

[One Man Gang]

That would take 6 arms...

:ugh:

[Sparky]

:ugh:

Never mind, I misread badly.

[mth]

It's so frustrating to know that we're a long way off from mutant wrestling.

And it's a real shame, 'cuz mutant wrestling has tons of potential.

Imagine the possibilities with extra arms, a second head, a prehensile tail, etc.

[One Man Gang]

And it's a real shame, 'cuz mutant wrestling has tons of potential.

Imagine the possibilities with extra arms, a second head, a prehensile tail, etc.


The cruiserweight division would be badass.

http://www.b-movies.gr/UserFiles/Image/basket%20case%202/basket%20case%202%2007.jpg

[Deka]

How the hell did we go from talking about mth getting head from Ariel to mutant wrestling?

[mth]

That's the beauty of the flow of conversation.

[Ace Rockola]

How the hell did we go from talking about mth getting head from Ariel to mutant wrestling?

Somebody must have thought about her nipples, and bam, here we are.

[toady]

Somebody must have thought about her nipples, and bam, here we are.

:grumpy:
You know you'd still hit that.

[Ace Rockola]

:grumpy:
You know you'd still hit that.

Hell yeah I would.

[Morrison]

:grumpy:
You know you'd still hit that.

i must speak up, simply to be the dissenting opinion, to say i would most certainly turn her down.

[Vice]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/Envious_Vice/Daffers.gif

Now that's a real woman.

Daffers. :heart:

[Deka]

I'd bang the everloving shit out of that.

[Ace Rockola]

Hey now!

[Vice]

I'd bang the everloving shit out of that.


...THAT?

I'm sorry, but Daffers is NOT a THAT.

[Deka]

"That" is in reference to her female secret parts.

[Vice]

Go bang Michelle McCool. Daffers is mine.

[Morrison]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/Envious_Vice/Daffers.gif

Now that's a real woman.

Daffers. :heart:

now she is a completely different story.

vice, how absolutely disappointing would it be if you pulled off her bra and came face to face with shelly martinez nipples?

[Deka]

Go bang Michelle McCool. Daffers is mine.
Fair trade. :yes:

[Vice]

now she is a completely different story.

vice, how absolutely disappointing would it be if you pulled off her bra and came face to face with shelly martinez nipples?


Don't put such thoughts in my head. As far as I'm concerned, she has perfect nipples and a non roast beef ladypart.

But shit, even if she did have Martinez nipples I'm sure I could manage. I am in love with her, so maybe I'd be ok with them. Wouldn't make any more jokes about Martinez's set though.

[Ace Rockola]

Fair trade. :yes:

I think you're only the second person who can say that about Michelle McCool.

And the other has a damn good reason.

http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/s/saracalloway/02.jpg

[Morrison]

Don't put such thoughts in my head. As far as I'm concerned, she has perfect nipples and a non roast beef ladypart.

But shit, even if she did have Martinez nipples I'm sure I could manage. I am in love with her, so maybe I'd be ok with them. Wouldn't make any more jokes about Martinez's set though.

i don't know, man. horrible looking nipples have made me totally change opinion on a girls attractiveness. can true love really overcome such a thing?

at least daffney most likely doesn't have ugly stretch marks on her ass/hips/thighs.

[Morrison]

I think you're only the second person who can say that about Michelle McCool.

And the other has a damn good reason.

http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/s/saracalloway/02.jpg

michelle isn't bad, as far as generic leggy blondes go.

[Vice]

I think I could overcome anything with the love I have for Daffers.

[Morrison]

you're a better man than i am, obviously.

though her face is about a thousand times cuter than shelly's, so i probably could too.

[Vice]

I happen to be awesome and in love with Daffers. That's all there is to it. One day she will find me and it will be the best day ever.

[Sparky]

I mean, she dated David Flair, why not Vice?

[Ace Rockola]

michelle isn't bad, as far as generic leggy blondes go.

She just seems like such a fucking bore. I realize we're pretty much just discussing broads as pieces of ass here (excpet Vice, who is actually in love), but her negative personality is a huge turn off.

[Deka]

I think you're only the second person who can say that about Michelle McCool.

And the other has a damn good reason.

http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/s/saracalloway/02.jpg
Do I really have to start on Michelle?

Cute face, tight body that screams "I work out" but is void of in disgusting muscular definition, a perfectly circumferenced ass that protrudes out from the back just enough, Nice ample breasts (not too big, not too small), and a southern accent that would sound amazingly awesome in bed.

[Ace Rockola]

Do I really have to start on Michelle?

Cute face, tight body that screams "I work out" but is void of in disgusting muscular definition, a perfectly circumferenced ass that protrudes out from the back just enough, Nice ample breasts (not too big, not too small), and a southern accent that would sound amazingly awesome in bed.

And on top of it all, she's lovin' life!

[Vice]

I mean, she dated David Flair, why not Vice?


Damn right. You guys should all stalk her and put in a good word for me. Make my dream come true and give me some meaning to my life.

[Morrison]

And on top of it all, she's lovin' life!

she'd match my tattoos, and i'm all about balance.

[Cewsh]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/Envious_Vice/Daffers.gif

Now that's a real woman.

Daffers. :heart:


Sorry mate. She looks like a nasty blow up doll there.

[Morrison]

what kind of blow up dolls are YOU buying?

[Morrison]

i think i might've put the emphasis on the wrong word there, i'm not quite sure...

[Vice]

You know, Cewsh, my birthday is coming up and you owe me for ROH tickets....

Seriously, where can I get a blowup doll that looks like that?

Edit: I just realized this isn't the VIP Lounge. Fancy that. Oh well. I don't care.

[Morrison]

You know, Cewsh, my birthday is coming up and you owe me for ROH tickets....


yeeeaaaahhh man, i get what you're saying!

have him order you a blow up doll!

and if vice doesn't care, then the fuck if i do either!

[Vice]

RAJAH BLOWUP DOLL PARTY YEAAAAAAAH.

[Morrison]

ERRYBODY WHO SAW DUH BLOW UP DOLL SAY YEAAAHHHH!

[Atty]

Damn, Cewsh. They don't all look like this?
http://www.prankplace.com/images/inflatables/johndoll.jpg

[chotliwala]

I find Michelle McCool to be not hot because she's so annoying.

Also was Sara always that ugly? During the DDP angle I remember her being somewhat attractive.

[Cewsh]

You remember wrong.


http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/s/saracalloway/02.jpg

[Jimini]

Sex-ay! :p

:nono:

[MichaelC]

Having not seen her in a while, I do hope Michelle McCool has put on some weight.

[Jimini]

Nope.
Still Keibler skinny.
Or more so.

[IB]

With a horribly set of bangs.

[chotliwala]

Yeah I don't find ribs attractive.

[MichaelC]

WrestleMania XIV
Tyson-Mania

Big Tag Battle Royal. Some of the buildup of this makes no sense to me. The LOD are falling apart, they hate each other, its the end of a....no, wait, they're back together and they've got Sunny at their side. Was any reason ever given for this 180? Lots of dire talent in this one, and people like Faarooq who had worked their asses off for a year for the company get 30 seconds in a Battle Royal as reward. Some of the teamings make no sense - Chainz and Bradshaw, for example. The first 30 seconds are random people running in to chuck out folk. People get eliminated without you even realising they were in the match in the first place. The whole thing is over too quickly and makes no sense. But LOD win, and Sunny wears very little, so the crowd love it. As a Battle Royal afficiando, I was disappointed.

TAKA v Aguila. Ah yes, the Lightheavyweight division. Such memories. Essa Rioes is 19 here, which makes him about 30 now. I wonder if he's learned how to work a match since then. This is terrible. If you like lots of random flippy moves to the outside to keep everyone interested, then it's your cup of tea (and the crowd are silent unless someone does a flippy move). But if you actually like your matches to mean something, look elsewhere. These two just do lots of flash moves for no reason for 5 or so minutes and then TAKA wins. Once upon a time I'd have enjoyed that. Now it's just a bit empty.

HHH v Owen. Talk about a major improvement in the show. This is Owen's second last WrestleMania - sad, I know. This is HHH's 3rd Mania, and the first at which he shows what he can really do on the big stage. This is the famous match where Chyna is handcuffed to Sgt. Slaughter on the outside of the ring.

Owen Hart's record at WrestleMania was 5-1-1. Ignoring the great tag match at WM13 (which nobody won), his own loss is here. Now, sometimes, the best way to put someone over is to make them look better than you. And that works well at times. The second way is what happens here, as Owen and HHH hammer into each other like they were complete equals. This is a good match: both men are on form, they are close calls and hard hitting moments, and there is a great story, as the crowd desperately want Owen to get his revenge, they really do, but at the same time, they just know Chyna will do something.

And something she does, and Owen loses. But, with the last great WrestleMania match of a legend (so what if people think it's overrating the man. This is my review and I say he's a legend) gives birth to the full legend of another.

Anyhow, more on Owen with next years Mania, but, lest we forget, at one point Owen does hit Triple H with the


ENZIGURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRI!

Which is always cool.

Mero/Sable v Goldust/Luna. We refuse to watch Marc Mero matches in this household. Sorry.

Rock v Shamrock. My god! Look at the difference in The Rock! He's hated, for good reason now, being a heel and that. He can move in the ring, he can promo, he acts like he's goods gift to wrestling. The difference between this and the year before is staggering. And he gets his ass well and truly handed to him here. Shamrock is a machine, just destroying The Rock. And he gets the submission and the title. But keeps the submission on, and then single handedly destroys Kama, D'lo and then Mark Henry to massive cheers, before locking the submission on again.

Then comes one of my favourite WrestleMania moments. Faarooq runs down to ringside, getting on the apron. SHamrock looks at him, eyes mad, ankle lock still on. Rock screams in pain, blood from his mouth, looking at Faarooq. And after all the backstabbing that Rock's done to Faarooq, from the Rumble onwards, Faarooq just shrugs, makes a hand gesture as if to say "sod this for a game of soldiers" and walks back to the lockerroom, to a massive cheer!

Then come the officials and SHamrock beats up most of them. So the decision is reversed, and Rock is still the champion. The crowd are pissed, Shamrock is pissed and he goes and attacks the champ again. That Shamrock, he really "wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer".

Cactus/Funk v The Outlaws. Funk's injury in this match is really noticeable once you watch it. This was an ok brawl, lightened up by the wonderful heelishness of the Road Dogg, and the crowds love of Funk and Foley.

Oh, and one of the strangest legit LOL moments of all time. Funk casually walks over to Billy Gunn, lifts a chair up and whacks him hard as you like breaking his nose in the process. He's just staggering over, then suddenly WHACK, he had a chair in his hands. It feels bad to laugh at an injury - even one to Billy Gunn, and one we've all had ourselves - but it's just so out of left field the assault.

Undertaker v Kane. The moment the streak came alive. Taker wins this one, barely, but Kane comes out of even more seemingly indestructable than before. It took THREE Tombstones, and Kane still just nearly kicked out. Taker dives through the air. Kane dives through the air. They reverse moves, they kick the living hell out of each other, they play the entire match as if they were legit brothers. That's why the Kane/Taker thing has worked so well, people can so readily just accept this brotherly bond. Those two make their characters in a way absolutely no one else could have.

Kane was great here. It's a shame that he;s lost a step or two since then, but hell, I have no problems with him still being around. Especially if he gets to "literally eviscerate" folk...

Oh, and Pete Rose turned up. And got Tombstoned. Poor Pete.

Austin v HBK. "This is for you, Earl". It's v. clear on the audio that that is what Shawn says. The other half pointed it out and thought it was sweet, the big HBK mark that she is. She knows what happened to Shawn in 1998, but this was the first time she'd seen his "farewell" match. So grimaces and surprised yells abounded as Shawn went out and bashed his back around.

This match runs as if Shawn Michaels said to himself: "They dont think my back hurts, so I am going to keep landing on my back to show them how much it really hurts. I'll show them!"

Austin is mad over, unsurprisingly. Shawn is mad over,as a heel. HHH and Chyna are so over as heels it's weird to think they'd be the 3rd biggest baby faces in the company from the next night on. Tyson looks stoned.

The story here is that Shawn does the right thing. He puts over Austin, clean, 1-2-3, in the middle of the ring. The anti-authority figure is the new face of the WWF. At this point, there has been a severe...attitude change in the WWF. And it would bring some of the biggest success since Hogan.

So, what of Mania XIV. Well, it's the polar opposite of many others, which started strongly and got weaker. XIV starts weak and builds up. The first two matches are forgettable, but then by the third things start to build up. The main event is, in the words of the other half, "The best there's been up to this point."
Like Mania XIII, there is a fair bit which doesn't work. But unlike Mania XIII, this feels like WrestleMania.
Overall - B (a weak start prevented a higher finish, but a massive step up in quality here)

[IB]

Just an observation:


Every competitor in Money In The Bank this year is either on ECW or gained/regained their popularity there. Good. It seems ECW is truly serving it's purpose wonderfully. :yes:

[Jimini]

Every competitor on what?
:wtf:

Money in the Bank I guess?

[IB]

Every competitor on what?
:wtf:

Money in the Bank I guess?



Sorry I edited in the complete statement above.

[Deka]

I used to get so pissed off whenever Ken Shamrock would get an Intercontinental Title shot and he'd always fuck it up by going into "the zone" and go off on everybody in the ring. He'd always get so close and then manage to fuck up his chances by getting DQ'ed everytime.

Kane/Taker was very disappointing. One of the most epic builds to a match in WWF history and the match was just plain boring. Sleep-enducing even.

Austin/HBK was awesome. That sequence when Austin reverses the Sweet Chin Music into a Stone Cold Stunner was sick and the little segment at the end where Tyson knocked HBK out was awesome. I jumped out of my seat when that happened.

[Badger]

Late on saying this, but well done on the Thorn arrangement mth.

Get me a signed pic of Ariel's boobs if you can though.

[mth]

You're all way too interested in Ariel. They're not even associated anymore.
Can't we all just go gay for Thorn instead?

[Deka]

That's all you..

[xpacnumber1fan]

Just an observation:


Every competitor in Money In The Bank this year is either on ECW or gained/regained their popularity there. Good. It seems ECW is truly serving it's purpose wonderfully. :yes:

Except MVP right?

And this is a real woman btw.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm74/wolf_hunter85/karen%20angle/karen-angle-boobs_433x631.jpg?t=1238182378

And she gets divorced after I get married.

[MichaelC]

I used to get so pissed off whenever Ken Shamrock would get an Intercontinental Title shot and he'd always fuck it up by going into "the zone" and go off on everybody in the ring. He'd always get so close and then manage to fuck up his chances by getting DQ'ed everytime.


Well, what can we say about Shamrock? He wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Surprised you didn't like Kane/Taker - we found it very enjoyable here.

[Tiffany]

WrestleMania XIV
Tyson-Mania

Austin v HBK. "This is for you, Earl". It's v. clear on the audio that that is what Shawn says.

He says something after that to and then points to the ring he's wearing on a necklace, but I could never make out that sentence or what it meant.

[MichaelC]

WrestleMania XV
The "MichaelC's first ever PPV" Mania

This was the first ever PPV I saw as a fan. As a result, it holds special resonance for young Michael. But will it hold up?


Billy Gunn v Al Snow v Hardcore Holly. Not the most expected WrestleMania opener there's ever been. Holly's in the middle of his career makeover which kept him employed for another decade. Al Snow is on the cusp of the major face run he had throughout 1999, and then again in 2000. Billy Gunn is....Billy Gunn. Billy Gunn's entire WWF tenure should have been in Hardcore matches, because they hide his frailties very well. This match is neither bad nor good, it's just sort of there. The crowd love it, and the wrong man went over I think, though it did lead to a pretty good match at Backlash, where Al Snow finally won the title.

Tag Titles. There was a Battle Royal beforehand to determine who faced the tag champs. I have never seen this Battle Royal, it was on Heat, so if anyone has a copy....

D'lo Brown and Test won that Battle Royal, didn't get on, and Owen and Jarrett used their "champions priviledges" to have the title defence on early while Test and D'lo were still tired. (Little things like that, like being able to change the card order of Mania, just made champions look like such a big deal...they should bring it back). Test is still very green here. D'lo isn't quite as awesome yet either, though he had a very good Steel City Street Fight with Owen on RAW a few weeks earlier (the RAW the Undertaker tried to sacrifice the Bossman, my first RAW!), and was on the cusp of a very over Summer.

Owen Hart and Jeff Jarrett work really well as a tag team. And they had great music. "Canadian County" I think it was called. This match is over very quickly, due to dissension here and there.

However, we do get a moment when D'lo tries to catch a kick, and Owen wallops him with the....


ENZIGGUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRI!

Which is always cool. (Believe it or not, I do this everytime someone hits an enziguri in any match we ever watch. Yes, I am sad, and I have the T-shirts to prove it.)

And we should point out just how cool the Enziguri is, and how great Owen Hart was, because...this will be the last chance to say it in this set of WrestleMania reviews! *looks sad.

Now a lot of people on this forum talk about their Eddie moment, how they remember where they were when they heard Eddie Guerrero died, and how wrestling hasn't quite recovered. For me, it was when Curt Hennig died. For others, it must have been the night to come when Owen Hart passed on, and for others yet, those cold nights when an old favourite was no more.

And yet, before I send everyone in tears of depression, let's leave this on a happy thought. Owen Hart has been dead nearly ten years. (That's NOT the happy thought, don't be cruel!) And yet, as they said when my grandfather died the other year, as long as the memories persist, no one truly dies. Even today, turn on Mania X through XV and Owen Hart will be staring back at you, giggling, celebrating like a loonie, giving terrible promos, and overracting. And Enziguriing the hell out of people. And even now, long gone, he can still bring a smile to the faces of those who watch him. Actors talk of "cinematic immortality", and that's what Owen, and Curt, and Eddie, and all of those others have.

Anyhow, great missile dropkick by Owen to win this match.

Oh, and I should quote the other half here: "My my, the tag titles were basically Owen's belt in the late 90s!"

The Brawl for All. If you haven't seen this before, go look it up. Butterbean v Bart Gunn. Truly a classic WrestleMania moment. And it contains one of the damn most poignant moments of all WrestleMania. And it doesn't even take place in the ring. For you see, to keep the prestige of the actual fight, there are three judges at ringside. The first two I forget, Chuck Wepner and someone. The third is Gorilla Monsoon.

A very ill Gorilla Monsoon. Diabetes and other ailments had ravaged him as much as the loss of his own son. This was a gaunt, frail Monsoon. He lifted his hand up to recieve the crowd, and the entire Philly crowd stood to applaud in a standing ovation. This was to be Gorilla's last public appearance, as he sadly died later that year (and only 62 as well). According to Basil DeVito, Monsoon spent most of the night sitting in the Gorilla position, dazed. He went out to do his bit, then came backstage, said "That's the end" to Vince standing there, and was helped to a private seat.

This WrestleMania has gotten too sad! We need light entertainment.

Butterbean KO'd Bart Gunn very quickly, with a very impressive punch. Everyone loves a good KO and this was a good one.

Then the Sacramento (?) Chicken runs in and gets KO'd by Vinny Paz.

Mankind v The BigShow. This to determine who gets to referee the main event. Mankind really wanted to, but he kept having obstacles in his path. And this obstacle gets himself DQ'd after chockeslaming very weakly Foley onto two chairs, which clearly don't touch him. I've just realised that the "sharpest knife" quote might be able to be used longer than Shamrock's stay.

Vince comes out, and can talk to be heared over a crowd without the need of a microphone. That's impressive. He hits Show and Show KO's him. Big Show is arrested for this.

Road Dogg v Shamrock v Val v Goldust. Not really sure why they swapped Gunn and Dogg in their storylines, but Road Dogg must have loved it. An IC title run and a win at WrestleMania! The storyline is that Shamrock's sister has been with Val and Goldust. Road Dogg is just the Champ. We both like Road Dogg, I like Shamrock's stupidity, and the Other Half likes Val and Goldust. So all areas are covered here. Shamrock gets Counted Out doing something stupid.

That Shamrock, he's "not the sharpest knife in the drawer." Neither is Ryan Shamrock, who manages to cost Goldust, and get "dumped again". Soon after she'd be sacrificed by The Undertaker, have PMS, and then become the item of a Maestro, though that was in a different company. As big Road Dogg fans in this house though, we enjoyed this match a lot.

Kane v HHH. Pretty good. Not as good as they had with other folk last year. Pete Rose is the Sacramento Chicken, and he gets Tombstoned, again! Match ends when HHH and Chyna get back together, and turn on Kane. Everyone cheers, aww, happy ending. DX is united again!

Sable v Tori. It's a womens match. In 1999. Anyone who thinks Beth v Melina could be better I may force to watch this. Nicole Bass interferes - remember her? Sable wins. The crowd love it. I fast forward the celebrations.

Shane v X-Pac. One of the best matches Shane has been in. Primarily because Pac is no slouch (Big up to all the Sean Waltman fans in the house!), and because Shane brings out Test, who gleefully cheats and interferes at every given opportunity. The Mean Street Posse are at ringside - they were a right laugh. Oh, and X-Pac has the belt won, but DOUBLE CROSS! Triple H and Chyna turn on X-Pac! They leave DX! They join the Corporation! The Outlaws come out to get their asses kicked too.

Then Kane chases off the Corporation, and The Outlaws help up X-Pac, and no one starts a "You lost to Shane" chant. Because they still love X-Pac - proof if ever that his heel turn completly fecked him up. Road Dogg has a great moment yelling at Michael Cole:

Dogg - We're going to get that jack-off, Hunter!"
Cole - You heard him, he said they're going to get Triple H.
Dogg - Jack-off, you heard me.

And now, Kevin Kelly and Mr McMahon. "Mr McMahon, who will the special guest referee be in the main event. Foley's in hospital, Show's in jail." McMahon smiles, and tells Kelly how he has a nice gym suit in his bag. "You know what?" says McMahon, his eyes going wide in manic happiness, "I'm going to be the special guest referee!"

Seriously, there's your every day TV villain, and then there's Mr McMahon on form. Utter glorious.

Bossman v Undertaker. Sometimes wrestling isn't fair. At all. What did Mick Foley do in the Hell in a Cell. Fall off it, get back up, fall through it, saunter around dazed, fall on some tacks and get pinned. There's no rhyme nor reason to that match, and yet its regarded as an alltime classic. Here, Bossman and Taker have a wonderfully tight nit story, and work it really well, and hit everything pretty damn good. But there's no bump off the top. So it gets called one of the worst matches of all time. Even if we don't count womens wrestling, I've still seen 30 matches at least in the last year, that I would easily call worse than this.

It's pretty entertaining. Bossman is such a lovely sadistic heel that you have people cheering for the Satanic Undertaker. Actually, that's no surprise.

Bossman is great. In wrestling, you only have so many ways to respond to something. You get angry, you deny it. Bossman would forever come up with another option. Like the justified agreement. The best example comes from Foley's book, about an in-ring appearance with Bossman

Foley - I saw Bossman, throwing up after being on the Teacups!
Bossman - Yes, well, I wasn't feeling too well before that. Haven't any of you had a stomach ache before?
(Crowd chants "Teacups")

Here, we have another favourite moment. We all know Taker will sit up. He sits up to everything. Here, Bossman whacks him, and then stands waiting for him to sit up so he can whack him again. Taker's down. "Sit the hell up" yells Bossman, so Taker sits up and Bossman whacks him again. It's glorious.

The match ends with the Tombstone - hey, it's the Streak - and then the Brood come down to help hang Bossman. A very well coreographed stunt. Oh, and it was Edge nad Christian's WrestleMania debut.

If Taker was still a face here, this match would be loved more. But get around the lack of a big spot, and the heel v heel dynamic, and its pretty damn good. I've seen worse matches than this. I've seen worse Hell in a Cells than this. It's reputation is grossly in need of reappraisal.

Vince comes out to main event referee. However, he comes Shawn Michaels, who gets rid of Vince and brings out Mike Chioda to ref. JR comes out to call the main event, back from Bells Palsy problems after 4 months and gets a standing ovation. Everyone loves jR!

Main Event - As a major ROck fan at the time, this disappointed me. Austin won the belt again. Now I can enjoy it for what it is - a pretty damn good Wrestling match. Rock kicks out of the Stunner, the first time ever I think. Austin kicks out the Rock Bottom. Referees are KO'd like multiple Bart Gunns, chairs are used, every rule is broken, and finally Austin reverses into the Stunner, Foley has got back from the hospital to count the three, and this time Rock stays down. Forgotten besides their other two classic Mania matchups, but deserves its classic status just as much.

Over all

This Mania is a must see. It's just rip roaring storyline fun the whole way through. The "Who will referee" story adds creedence to what might not have had it, Vince is evil, there are good matches, the crowd are really into everything, there are major (and I mean major, Triple H's heel turn on DX is one of the biggest events of the late 90s in my opinion) and yeah, its great. Who cares there isn't one solid ***** when we're having this much fun?
A-

[mth]

JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH KEVIN THORN.

$100 up-front for the logos, then he's getting t-shirts printed up, and I get $1 per shirt sold. Probably getting a free t-shirt and autographed photo, I would imagine, too. Plus, he'll be promoting me on his website.

:cool:

[IB]

JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH KEVIN THORN.

$100 up-front for the logos, then he's getting t-shirts printed up, and I get $1 per shirt sold. Probably getting a free t-shirt and autographed photo, I would imagine, too. Plus, he'll be promoting me on his website.

:cool:




:panic: Very Very Very cool:panic:

[MichaelC]

Not too shabby, mth.

[Jimini]

Congrats and stuff :yes: :beer:

[Badger]

Nice one em-tee-aitch.

[chotliwala]

I was gonna mention this on Facebook mth, but next time he calls make it a three way with Vice so that we can hear you.

[mth]

My wife and I were joking around yesterday about trying to record the call somehow. Probably could with our phone, if we really wanted. But, until you see the logos and my name all over his website, you'll just have to take my word for it.

[chotliwala]

Hahhaah Hoeker I wasn't implying you're jerking our chain, I meant so that we could hear you try not to sound excited.

If it's anything like when I met Nigel, it was amazingly awkward for me but enjoyable for others.

[xpacnumber1fan]

In research for my top 10 list, I found the weirdest ass thing ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1cPQ8rR6nQ&feature=related

[mth]

Hahhaah Hoeker I wasn't implying you're jerking our chain, I meant so that we could hear you try not to sound excited.

If it's anything like when I met Nigel, it was amazingly awkward for me but enjoyable for others.

I know you guys believe me, but still, other people might not. :p

My wife, who overheard the whole thing, said I sounded really excited, with my frequent use of "awesome" and "cool", but I was just trying to sound enthusiastic/excited about the deal....and obviously I was excited to be talking to Kevin.
There was at least one or two awkward moments.
He said, "So, what's going on?"
and I said, "Not much."
*awkward silence*
And I'm thinking, "Does he want to know what I'm really doing? I'm sorting through clothes with my wife, he doesn't care about that."
So, I think I just repeated, "Not much," again . :dork:
And then hammering out the deal, since I'm still new to freelancing and working out deals like this, I always have that "awkward thinking moment", where I go "Ummm..." and worry about asking for too much or too little before I respond.
But, i think it went pretty well, and I hope he doesn't think I'm a dork.

I doubt it was that interesting to listen to, unless you find me saying "awesome/cool" and a couple nice awkward pauses a lot hilarious.

[Tiffany]

In research for my top 10 list, I found the weirdest ass thing ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1cPQ8rR6nQ&feature=related

Especially weird since The Undertaker had just tried to kill Warrior a few years before by locking him in a coffin. And yet now they were tag team partners.

[Ace Rockola]

:lol: Listening to yesterday's Stern show, and he's talking to Shelton's mama!

[Deka]

WrestleMania XV
The "MichaelC's first ever PPV" Mania

This was the first ever PPV I saw as a fan. As a result, it holds special resonance for young Michael. But will it hold up?


Billy Gunn v Al Snow v Hardcore Holly. Not the most expected WrestleMania opener there's ever been. Holly's in the middle of his career makeover which kept him employed for another decade. Al Snow is on the cusp of the major face run he had throughout 1999, and then again in 2000. Billy Gunn is....Billy Gunn. Billy Gunn's entire WWF tenure should have been in Hardcore matches, because they hide his frailties very well. This match is neither bad nor good, it's just sort of there. The crowd love it, and the wrong man went over I think, though it did lead to a pretty good match at Backlash, where Al Snow finally won the title.

Tag Titles. There was a Battle Royal beforehand to determine who faced the tag champs. I have never seen this Battle Royal, it was on Heat, so if anyone has a copy....

D'lo Brown and Test won that Battle Royal, didn't get on, and Owen and Jarrett used their "champions priviledges" to have the title defence on early while Test and D'lo were still tired. (Little things like that, like being able to change the card order of Mania, just made champions look like such a big deal...they should bring it back). Test is still very green here. D'lo isn't quite as awesome yet either, though he had a very good Steel City Street Fight with Owen on RAW a few weeks earlier (the RAW the Undertaker tried to sacrifice the Bossman, my first RAW!), and was on the cusp of a very over Summer.

Owen Hart and Jeff Jarrett work really well as a tag team. And they had great music. "Canadian County" I think it was called. This match is over very quickly, due to dissension here and there.

However, we do get a moment when D'lo tries to catch a kick, and Owen wallops him with the....


ENZIGGUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRI!

Which is always cool. (Believe it or not, I do this everytime someone hits an enziguri in any match we ever watch. Yes, I am sad, and I have the T-shirts to prove it.)

And we should point out just how cool the Enziguri is, and how great Owen Hart was, because...this will be the last chance to say it in this set of WrestleMania reviews! *looks sad.

Now a lot of people on this forum talk about their Eddie moment, how they remember where they were when they heard Eddie Guerrero died, and how wrestling hasn't quite recovered. For me, it was when Curt Hennig died. For others, it must have been the night to come when Owen Hart passed on, and for others yet, those cold nights when an old favourite was no more.

And yet, before I send everyone in tears of depression, let's leave this on a happy thought. Owen Hart has been dead nearly ten years. (That's NOT the happy thought, don't be cruel!) And yet, as they said when my grandfather died the other year, as long as the memories persist, no one truly dies. Even today, turn on Mania X through XV and Owen Hart will be staring back at you, giggling, celebrating like a loonie, giving terrible promos, and overracting. And Enziguriing the hell out of people. And even now, long gone, he can still bring a smile to the faces of those who watch him. Actors talk of "cinematic immortality", and that's what Owen, and Curt, and Eddie, and all of those others have.

Anyhow, great missile dropkick by Owen to win this match.

Oh, and I should quote the other half here: "My my, the tag titles were basically Owen's belt in the late 90s!"

The Brawl for All. If you haven't seen this before, go look it up. Butterbean v Bart Gunn. Truly a classic WrestleMania moment. And it contains one of the damn most poignant moments of all WrestleMania. And it doesn't even take place in the ring. For you see, to keep the prestige of the actual fight, there are three judges at ringside. The first two I forget, Chuck Wepner and someone. The third is Gorilla Monsoon.

A very ill Gorilla Monsoon. Diabetes and other ailments had ravaged him as much as the loss of his own son. This was a gaunt, frail Monsoon. He lifted his hand up to recieve the crowd, and the entire Philly crowd stood to applaud in a standing ovation. This was to be Gorilla's last public appearance, as he sadly died later that year (and only 62 as well). According to Basil DeVito, Monsoon spent most of the night sitting in the Gorilla position, dazed. He went out to do his bit, then came backstage, said "That's the end" to Vince standing there, and was helped to a private seat.

This WrestleMania has gotten too sad! We need light entertainment.

Butterbean KO'd Bart Gunn very quickly, with a very impressive punch. Everyone loves a good KO and this was a good one.

Then the Sacramento (?) Chicken runs in and gets KO'd by Vinny Paz.

Mankind v The BigShow. This to determine who gets to referee the main event. Mankind really wanted to, but he kept having obstacles in his path. And this obstacle gets himself DQ'd after chockeslaming very weakly Foley onto two chairs, which clearly don't touch him. I've just realised that the "sharpest knife" quote might be able to be used longer than Shamrock's stay.

Vince comes out, and can talk to be heared over a crowd without the need of a microphone. That's impressive. He hits Show and Show KO's him. Big Show is arrested for this.

Road Dogg v Shamrock v Val v Goldust. Not really sure why they swapped Gunn and Dogg in their storylines, but Road Dogg must have loved it. An IC title run and a win at WrestleMania! The storyline is that Shamrock's sister has been with Val and Goldust. Road Dogg is just the Champ. We both like Road Dogg, I like Shamrock's stupidity, and the Other Half likes Val and Goldust. So all areas are covered here. Shamrock gets Counted Out doing something stupid.

That Shamrock, he's "not the sharpest knife in the drawer." Neither is Ryan Shamrock, who manages to cost Goldust, and get "dumped again". Soon after she'd be sacrificed by The Undertaker, have PMS, and then become the item of a Maestro, though that was in a different company. As big Road Dogg fans in this house though, we enjoyed this match a lot.

Kane v HHH. Pretty good. Not as good as they had with other folk last year. Pete Rose is the Sacramento Chicken, and he gets Tombstoned, again! Match ends when HHH and Chyna get back together, and turn on Kane. Everyone cheers, aww, happy ending. DX is united again!

Sable v Tori. It's a womens match. In 1999. Anyone who thinks Beth v Melina could be better I may force to watch this. Nicole Bass interferes - remember her? Sable wins. The crowd love it. I fast forward the celebrations.

Shane v X-Pac. One of the best matches Shane has been in. Primarily because Pac is no slouch (Big up to all the Sean Waltman fans in the house!), and because Shane brings out Test, who gleefully cheats and interferes at every given opportunity. The Mean Street Posse are at ringside - they were a right laugh. Oh, and X-Pac has the belt won, but DOUBLE CROSS! Triple H and Chyna turn on X-Pac! They leave DX! They join the Corporation! The Outlaws come out to get their asses kicked too.

Then Kane chases off the Corporation, and The Outlaws help up X-Pac, and no one starts a "You lost to Shane" chant. Because they still love X-Pac - proof if ever that his heel turn completly fecked him up. Road Dogg has a great moment yelling at Michael Cole:

Dogg - We're going to get that jack-off, Hunter!"
Cole - You heard him, he said they're going to get Triple H.
Dogg - Jack-off, you heard me.

And now, Kevin Kelly and Mr McMahon. "Mr McMahon, who will the special guest referee be in the main event. Foley's in hospital, Show's in jail." McMahon smiles, and tells Kelly how he has a nice gym suit in his bag. "You know what?" says McMahon, his eyes going wide in manic happiness, "I'm going to be the special guest referee!"

Seriously, there's your every day TV villain, and then there's Mr McMahon on form. Utter glorious.

Bossman v Undertaker. Sometimes wrestling isn't fair. At all. What did Mick Foley do in the Hell in a Cell. Fall off it, get back up, fall through it, saunter around dazed, fall on some tacks and get pinned. There's no rhyme nor reason to that match, and yet its regarded as an alltime classic. Here, Bossman and Taker have a wonderfully tight nit story, and work it really well, and hit everything pretty damn good. But there's no bump off the top. So it gets called one of the worst matches of all time. Even if we don't count womens wrestling, I've still seen 30 matches at least in the last year, that I would easily call worse than this.

It's pretty entertaining. Bossman is such a lovely sadistic heel that you have people cheering for the Satanic Undertaker. Actually, that's no surprise.

Bossman is great. In wrestling, you only have so many ways to respond to something. You get angry, you deny it. Bossman would forever come up with another option. Like the justified agreement. The best example comes from Foley's book, about an in-ring appearance with Bossman

Foley - I saw Bossman, throwing up after being on the Teacups!
Bossman - Yes, well, I wasn't feeling too well before that. Haven't any of you had a stomach ache before?
(Crowd chants "Teacups")

Here, we have another favourite moment. We all know Taker will sit up. He sits up to everything. Here, Bossman whacks him, and then stands waiting for him to sit up so he can whack him again. Taker's down. "Sit the hell up" yells Bossman, so Taker sits up and Bossman whacks him again. It's glorious.

The match ends with the Tombstone - hey, it's the Streak - and then the Brood come down to help hang Bossman. A very well coreographed stunt. Oh, and it was Edge nad Christian's WrestleMania debut.

If Taker was still a face here, this match would be loved more. But get around the lack of a big spot, and the heel v heel dynamic, and its pretty damn good. I've seen worse matches than this. I've seen worse Hell in a Cells than this. It's reputation is grossly in need of reappraisal.

Vince comes out to main event referee. However, he comes Shawn Michaels, who gets rid of Vince and brings out Mike Chioda to ref. JR comes out to call the main event, back from Bells Palsy problems after 4 months and gets a standing ovation. Everyone loves jR!

Main Event - As a major ROck fan at the time, this disappointed me. Austin won the belt again. Now I can enjoy it for what it is - a pretty damn good Wrestling match. Rock kicks out of the Stunner, the first time ever I think. Austin kicks out the Rock Bottom. Referees are KO'd like multiple Bart Gunns, chairs are used, every rule is broken, and finally Austin reverses into the Stunner, Foley has got back from the hospital to count the three, and this time Rock stays down. Forgotten besides their other two classic Mania matchups, but deserves its classic status just as much.

Over all

This Mania is a must see. It's just rip roaring storyline fun the whole way through. The "Who will referee" story adds creedence to what might not have had it, Vince is evil, there are good matches, the crowd are really into everything, there are major (and I mean major, Triple H's heel turn on DX is one of the biggest events of the late 90s in my opinion) and yeah, its great. Who cares there isn't one solid ***** when we're having this much fun?
A-
Another WrestleMania.. another reason to be pissed off at Shamrock for acting like an idiot when he clearly had a legit shot to win the title.

I was mad that Butterbean beat Bart Gunn. That really got me heated. I loved Bart Gunn's "one hitta quitta". Just one good left hook and he was knocking out people left and right leading into their boxing match. Never liked Butterbean. I wanted Bart to knock his ass out.

At the time, I didn't mind The Rock losing because I didn't like him and I was a big Austin fan at that point.




JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH KEVIN THORN.

$100 up-front for the logos, then he's getting t-shirts printed up, and I get $1 per shirt sold. Probably getting a free t-shirt and autographed photo, I would imagine, too. Plus, he'll be promoting me on his website.

:cool:
That's awesome. You definetely deserve to be paid for your great work. Glad to hear you are starting to make moves with people. Hopefully, after this, word of mouth with catch on and you won't be far away from making bucket loads of cash for your masterpieces.

[Smiddy]

I've not subscribed to this thread yet, so I'll do so with this . . .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/baronvonmavis/1235949580938.jpg

Guess who?

[Vice]

Puuuuuuuuuunk.

[Hero!]

That is some awesome hair.

Anyone have that picture of Punk when he was like 17 in tattered shorts and weighing about 18 pounds?

[Ace Rockola]

There was a great pic of Punk in WWE magazine once. In the back seat of a mini van with an ECFnW shirt on. Looked like the biggest mark he could. Makes his success all the more cool.

[One Man Gang]

Ace...

*cough*top25wrestlemaniamoments*cough*
.

[Ace Rockola]

I'm working on it. Writting some up right now. Will be doing two a days (and then some) tomorrow.

I'd post the next one, but I can't find ANY picture for it.

[One Man Gang]

Don't worry, I've got you covered. Just put this in since obviously it's the moment you're talking about.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHA7IetjPZA

[Ace Rockola]

It does involve a man who does great promos. Two in fact.

[One Man Gang]

It does involve a man who does great promos. Two in fact.


and it wasn't Akeem and Slick...? :cry:



On the plus side, I just remembered how close Houston is to New Orleans. Gang currently lives in New Orleans and it's only a few hours drive. They should so use him in the Legends match.


You'll never see me happier if One Man Gang walks down the ramp to help beat up Jericho.

[Cewsh]

You'll never see me happier if One Man Gang limps down the ramp to help beat up Jericho.


Fixed.

[One Man Gang]

Fixed.




He does not limp...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ74e2kZmOU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48IjkuY4fOQ

[Matthew]

CREEP

[One Man Gang]

You're probably right. Gang probably needed a drink after seeing that guy.


Anyways, here's a great title win for the Gang.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIuBCPgyZc4&feature=related

[Jimini]

What's with the big man hard-on?
Are you Vince McMahon? :eek:

[Smiddy]

He only seems to be obsessed with one particular big man, to be fair.

[Sparky]

Terry Gordy is fucking amazing.

[Jimini]

I miss dorky Kurt and Austin fighting for Vince's love.
Stuff like this was a little daft, but it really worked.
Everyone being too intense or the wrong degree of goofy today is a little... :blah:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9YVjpVV8Es

Come back Kurt

:cry:

[Zen]

They really ruined the Stone Cold character during this time. I mean, it was getting closer and closer to the breaking point each and every month for a long while, since 99 onwards..but there you go.

[Vice]

Angle was amazing on Howard Stern. He wrote Robin a poem and it's stunning.

"To my love, Robin

I am a bachelor and true love is hard to find
I may be a wrestler, but you may love me for my mind
You’re living the single life again and are ready for the next phase
And just like Doctor Ronny(?), I will make you a new woman in just 21 days
I won a gold medal in the Olympics, they say I’ve never been beat
I’m also a gold medalist in the sack, much better than vegetables and meat
TNA pays me millions to wrestle and cross the line
I will never ever bitch, even about an 800 dollar bottle of wine
We can go to the theater, we can roll around in the grass
We can have coffee at Starbucks, just don’t try to squirt it up my ass
Robin, please give me a chance for a love like you’ve never seen
And I’m much more well hung than that damn Jim Florentine
I will look past your shortcomings and, unlike Howard, I don’t snore
I don’t even care that you scored a fucking 34
Any man who disrespects you, I will certainly strangle
So how does this sound, my sweetheart, oh Robin Ophelia Angle?
I can make love to you all night, and I’ll make you squeal
I’ll have you screaming “It’s real. It’s damn real.”

He got a date with her, too. Brilliant.

[Tempest]

...Nice little psychopathic undertones there.

[Ace Rockola]

Angle was amazing on Howard Stern. He wrote Robin a poem and it's stunning.

"To my love, Robin

I am a bachelor and true love is hard to find
I may be a wrestler, but you may love me for my mind
You’re living the single life again and are ready for the next phase
And just like Doctor Ronny(?), I will make you a new woman in just 21 days
I won a gold medal in the Olympics, they say I’ve never been beat
I’m also a gold medalist in the sack, much better than vegetables and meat
TNA pays me millions to wrestle and cross the line
I will never ever bitch, even about an 800 dollar bottle of wine
We can go to the theater, we can roll around in the grass
We can have coffee at Starbucks, just don’t try to squirt it up my ass
Robin, please give me a chance for a love like you’ve never seen
And I’m much more well hung than that damn Jim Florentine
I will look past your shortcomings and, unlike Howard, I don’t snore
I don’t even care that you scored a fucking 34
Any man who disrespects you, I will certainly strangle
So how does this sound, my sweetheart, oh Robin Ophelia Angle?
I can make love to you all night, and I’ll make you squeal
I’ll have you screaming “It’s real. It’s damn real.”

He got a date with her, too. Brilliant.

The next day she said he texted her and she turned him down. She didn't want to say on air she was dating someone else.

It's crazy how many times you heard his name the rest of the week. And of course TNA is such a blip on the radar when they'd make cracks about Kurt and Robin becoming a couple and having his co-workers over for dinner dates they mentioned current or former WWE stars.

[Vice]

What a bitch.

[Ace Rockola]

Yeah, it was quite lame. I can sorta understand it though. You're really on the spot when a guy just pulled something so crazy awesome like that. But it's the Howard Stern show, you'd think she'd have the balls to shoot him down on air.

Kurt should be fine though. He brought TNA from under a million viewers to over 2.2 million a week ya know.

[Cewsh]

They really ruined the Stone Cold character during this time. I mean, it was getting closer and closer to the breaking point each and every month for a long while, since 99 onwards..but there you go.


Austin was stale at that point anyway.

It was the right direction to take.

[PurePlayer]

It was the right direction to take. People on the forums say the reason why guys like Cena and Finlay don't turn heel is because of merchandise sales. Then what would be the reason for the Austin heel turn in 2001? The same can be said about guys like HHH and Batista. If the reason for not turning heel is because of merchandise sales, then no popular face would ever turn heel which just isn't true.

Don't get me wrong, I understand Cena sells a lot of merchandise, and in this economy it probably wouldn't be best to turn him heel. But can someone with a straight face really say the same thing about fucking Finlay and Hornswoggle?

[MichaelC]

Nice to see Angle is taking the single life so nicely...

[Defrost]

Why is Jeff Hardy fucking a dog?

http://i41.tinypic.com/1604zv4.jpg

[Hero!]

Why not?

[mth]

Lucky dog.

[toady]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phf4l36FCTI

This is really similar to what i was hoping Mordecai was going to be like.

This kind of character could be perfect for a feud with Taker(which we were all saying back then too).

What's sad is that WWE probably put more effort into this one segment than it did the whole Mordecai character.

[Ace Rockola]

So, Mr. Kennedy is back on the Sun's Wrestlecast podcast.

I wonder what he's gonna say to fuck himself this time?

[MichaelC]

Something, no doubt: did you see the Sky Sports New interview?

No matter what, he comes across as cold and arrogant and that's meant to be him off-camera!

[Ace Rockola]

Something, no doubt: did you see the Sky Sports New interview?

No matter what, he comes across as cold and arrogant and that's meant to be him off-camera!

DId he shoot himself in the foot on there?

All I've gotten so far is that WWE gave him the movie part over Cody Rhodes, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy and SPANKY! That last one could have been in theaters dammit.

[MichaelC]

WrestleMania 16
McMahonamania

D'lo/Godfather v Bossman/Bull. The Godfather comes out with about 10 hos, Ice T singing his theme tune, and D'lo Brown with about the biggest grin ever needed to be surgically removed in history. One gets the impression he really enjoyed his WrestleMania. Bossman and Bull come out, and the serious stuff starts. Bull was great during his cup of tea in the 'E, and Bossman is, as you may have learned during the course of these things, one of my favourites. This is his last WrestleMania. Be sad.
Bossman and Bull debut the greatest double team move ever here. Do you remember Bossman's signature move where the person is in the ropes ala the 619 and he would run across the ring, dive under the bottom rope, and punch them in the face? We have a double team version of that here! Godfather's pretty damn on here, perhaps proving that when he had the confidence, he wasn't as bad as some make out. D'lo is D'lo, bumping like mad: when he had confidence, he wasn't too shabby either. Bull still has his confidence, though he hasn't gotten round to using his wicked top rope axe kick finisher yet. And Bossman was always good. Hot opener, where the four worked their socks off to get the crowd going.

Hardcore title madness. You know, you forget about him for ages, and then he turns up in one of these old things, but man, I miss that Crash Holly. Little ol' Elroy the Superheavyweight. He might just be the most popular person not named The Rock on the roster during parts of 2000. This is madness. You have The Headbangers (The Other Half is happy), The Acolytes, the Mean Street Posse, Hardcore Holly, Kai En Tai, Viscera, Crash Holly and Tazz in the one match. What a list of characters that is! At no point do Bradshaw or Faarooq look any way interested in the Hardcore title. They just wander around dishing out random violence, for shits and giggles. The crowd is split, as they love Tazz and Crash, but are fond of the likes of Kai En Tai, and the MSP are so feckless by this point that you couldn't help but cheer as their antics went so horribly wrong for them.

Pete Gas was a 2 time Hardcore Champion! I enjoyed all 67 combined seconds of both, so maybe he deserves more credit: after all, how many wrestlers can you claim you've enjoyed every single second of all of their title reigns?

This match is a complete mess. It has a botched finish. People bleed all over the place. None of the talent in it - as much as we love them - will win any awards for finesse. But you know what? It's still utter mad brilliant fun. The Hardcore title was really this much fun in its 24/7 phases.

Test/Albert v HeadCheese. HeadCheese were amazing. Al Snow went from pyschotic anti-Mick Foley anti-Rock heel, to loved goofy clown so easily. Shame, the Al Snow heel turn had legs, but it got completly tossed to the side. But then, the pairing with Snow gave Steve Blackman his most popularity ever, turned him into a damn near violent sensation and gave him 2000, his best year of his wrestling career. Plus, at one point he got to attack a cow with nunchucks. A face we could all admire!

Test and Albert are still pretty damn green here, as a tag team. Test does most of the work for his team, like Snow for his. But no one seems to care because they're all too busy staring at Trish Stratus's....sternum area.

Edge/Christian v Dudleys v Hardys. Probably the match responsible, more than any, for the multi-people ladder matches you seem to get everywhere these days. This match is not bad, it holds together a lot better than most ladder matches since, and its fun watching the likes of Jeff and Edge trying out spots which they would later hone as ladder match certainties. This was the first major moment of the Dudley Boys becoming faces, as the crowd eats everything they do right up. Then again, how can you boo a tag team whose response to anything is to smash people through tables, or be otherwise violent? There's a reason the Acolytes weren't heels for long. We also get "crazy camera" view, which was a favourite.

Edge and Christian win their first of seven tag titles that year. They're so close to ten, you just know there'll be a tag title winning reunion at some point in the next few years.

Terri/The Kat. Goldust's ex vs Lawler's ex. Moolah and Mae Young are there too. Val Venis is refereeing. Moolah costs Kat the win. People laugh at Mae Young snogging the hell out of Val. This was rubbish, and even then it was still an improvement on last years womens match.

Too Cool/Chyna v Eddie/Perry/Dean. The heel team are great. Eddie Guerrero had such a lovely swarmy side to him, like a heel David Niven. Chyna was still booked really well here, it's amazing (though understandable if you read the backstage gossip) how quickly her character decayed later in the year. Too Cool are over like hell. For this six man tag, Brian Christophers pants stay up. The 3 Radicals in the match make Chyna look like the most credible opponent possible - ardent proffesionals all the way. The next night, Chyna would join up with Eddie, and "Latino Heat" was born. Saturn had a few pushes before he duffed up Mike Bell, and Dean Malenko sort of fell out of the picture completly after trying to get off with Lita. A shame.

Benoit v Jericho v Angle. Mr Benoit is going to appear in most of the next few Manias. I shall not be mentioning the end of his life, and merely speaking on behalf of what we see in front of us. Here, I have come up with a new maxim. Which is: if the weakest person in the match is Angle, we're in for a treat. This was to get the IC and Euro titles off Kurt Angle without him being pinned and it works. The three work a pretty damn good triple threat. Benoit gets the duke for the IC title, and then, in a moment we loved, immediately dives down for the pin for the European title, but Angle makes the save. This match also seeded the start of the epic Benoit/Jericho fued which was a highlight for the rest of the year. Jericho could beat Benoit for the European title here, though wherever he could beat him on a goat remained to be seen.

Rikishi/Kane v Road Dogg/X-Pac. This should be good. Paul Bearer's at Kane's side, being even more animated than usual. Tori runs in the ring, gets a Stinkface, Kane Tombstones X-Pac, and that's it. This match got 3 minutes....seriously? Everyone, bar Kane and Paul Bearer (who looks like he's having a complete ball of a time) do the dance, along with the Sacramento Chicken, who does the dance very well. Then Pete Rose tries to interfere, and gets massacred for his troubles. Pete never did try his luck with Kane again.

Main Event. BigShow is out too early. I still think Foley should have won so we could get the big Championship tournament Linda promised. I just like tournaments. HHH and The Rock go at it, and Vince turns on The Rock. As a young mark, I was shocked. Triple H won, and I was shocked. The Rock attacked Stephanie and I was shocked. There was no Championship tournament and I was shocked. This match degenerates a little more with each repeat viewing, which is a shame.

Overall
It was fun, though not as fun as Mania XV before hand. Uhm, I'll give it a B-

[Ace Rockola]

That was the first Mania I watched in my home and paid for out of my own pocket. Loved it at the time cause it was the WWF in 2000. But man, what a let down in hindsight. If I went back through my 2000 PPV tape collection, this wouldn't even cross my mind as the one to watch.

I was a huge Trips fanboy back then, so I was happy he beat Rock, but I wanted Foley to win to give him his Mania moment/a tournament for Backlash.

[One Man Gang]

So, should we be taking bets on who will have a new costume at Wrestlemania? There's always a few who update their wardrobe for the big event.

[RaBbI-tAnGeRiNe]

Mysterio will probably dress up as a superhero again. I love the gimmick that he's five.

Nothing beats Chyna's peacock, though.

[One Man Gang]

I'm sure Jeff Hardy will have some new facepaint at the very least. Maybe some of the guys in the MITB match will have different stuff in an attempt to stand out to the crowd more.

[MichaelC]

Matt Hardy'll have new music.

[RaBbI-tAnGeRiNe]

Matt Hardy'll have new music.
Hopefully some cheesy soap style music, so they can play dramatic~ music when ever he's on screen again.

Every week he can face a new dilemma and his opponents are randomly replaced by workers of the same coloured hair because the original got their big break in a Uwe Boll film or South American commercial. Feuds will always end in death or Spain, but will be rekindled eight years later when it's realised success outside of WWE just isn't going to happen.

Because that's a shit idea, MichaelC. Fucking terrible.

[MichaelC]

Live for the Moment gets a face pop.

Matt Hardy is a heel.

Live for the Moment is inappropriate thus.

Hardly a terrible idea.

[Sparky]

???

Live For The Moment was a tremendous heel theme when it had the V1 intro. Can't they just bring back Matt Hardy Version 1?