Football Manager Discussion (and Champo if you want)

[Grimario]

And all for a total outlay of £300k! What a manager.

Sounds almost what Spurs have done... yet they don't win anything. Melv > Harry

[Grimario]

I have pulled off the BIGGEST NAME signing in the history of the BSP....

DWIGHT YORKE

:hyper:

Might backfire on me. Injured in pre-season for a week, injured in first game for 10 days :happysad:

And I don't have a back up DMC which is where he is playing :(

[turdpower]

I'm amassing quite brilliant backroom staff. Owen, Park, Nedved, GRIMANDI, De Rossi, Srna, Owen, Gerrard.

Rather strangely. They are all world class for no real reason at all.

Just finished the 21/22 season. Man United got relegated. So for no reason other than because I could, I bought Rooney and Ronaldo who are 36 and 37 respectively.

They'll maybe go in the coaching staff at least :happysad:

[DavidUK]

Fuck this - a lot of my first team players contracts are up for renewal. Every one, and I mean every one, of my key players are not interested in renewing whatsoever. They all want to move on to bigger clubs :irked:

[Murphy]

Started a game with Man Utd. :happysad:

Beat Newcastle Town 12-0 and Bury 4-0. Bought Cardozo for £5.75m.

We'll see how this goes...

[Grimario]

Fuck this - a lot of my first team players contracts are up for renewal. Every one, and I mean every one, of my key players are not interested in renewing whatsoever. They all want to move on to bigger clubs :irked:

Pffft, try having every single one of your players wanted by clubs in League 2 :happysad: I pick up a whole bunch of relative nobodies, released by Prem and Champ clubs, turn them into Blue Square Premier STARS and they want out as soon as another League 1 or 2 club comes after them :(

Fortunately, I have been able to keep hold of most of my youngsters. Only one that has left was some AMR ST called Phil Marsh. Some club offered 80k + friendly and my board accepted it :( I am going to be the breeding ground for former promising youngsters to make that step up to their proper level (League 1 or 2) and the retirement village for former superstars - I don't see Dwight Yorke, Antony Sibierski or Ivan Rosado playing anywhere else :yes:

[DavidUK]

Which team are you again?

[Grimario]

Ilkeston!

[DavidUK]

How did you end up choosing them? Randomly?

[Grimario]

Started a game unemployed, stuck it on holiday and told it to stop holidaying when someone offered me a job :yes:

Last time I did that, I ended up with Weston-super-Mare, but got a power surge in the middle of saving the game and lost the saved file :(

[DavidUK]

I fancy giving it a go with a Blue Square North/South team.

I was gonna get you to pick a number but I guess I could start unemployed.

[DavidUK]

The first team to offer me a job was of course Ilkeston.

I think I'll reject that one just so we don't have to compare :D

[Grimario]

Are you a proper rubbish nobody? The first unemployed game I started, I forgot to change myself from International Footballer. I am guessing so... either Automatic or Sunday League? When I was an international, I didn't get a job offer till November when Fulham were winless on the bottom of the prem and came asking for me :nono:

I think the problem with LLM is that it is almost too easy to sign half decent young players on a free. Just about every single one of my signings has been in an Prem or Champ youth/reserves team before being released. Surely they would/should have aspirations higher than the BSN/S/P? :dunno:

[Torn]

You'd be surprised. A lot of the big club's youth players eventually don't turn out to be good enough for league football. We've had players at Brentford on loan from clubs like Chelsea who have since dropped to clubs in the Ryman league etc

[DavidUK]

Are you a proper rubbish nobody? The first unemployed game I started, I forgot to change myself from International Footballer. I am guessing so... either Automatic or Sunday League? When I was an international, I didn't get a job offer till November when Fulham were winless on the bottom of the prem and came asking for me :nono:

I think the problem with LLM is that it is almost too easy to sign half decent young players on a free. Just about every single one of my signings has been in an Prem or Champ youth/reserves team before being released. Surely they would/should have aspirations higher than the BSN/S/P? :dunno:

I set it to automatic. Just been offered a job, in October, by Gloucester City who, after 10 games, are rooted to the bottom of the BSN League. Here we go.

[DavidUK]

Lost my first game 2-1 against the league leaders after leading for about an hour :(

[turdpower]

At the other end of world football; just started my second spell as Italy manager.

[DavidUK]

Fucking hell, this is damage limitation stuff until January until I can put my stamp on this team.

[Melv]

Fucking hell, this is damage limitation stuff until January until I can put my stamp on this team.
What year are you in? Any chance of uploading the savegame?

[DavidUK]

Only started the game a while ago, went on holiday and have only been in charge for a handful of games. Not really worth uploading it - you could do it yourself from the start?

[Melv]

Games are really struggling to hold my interest at the moment, I had my Liverpool one that I go back to every so often, and the Newcastle one that's starting to get a bit boring as I'm winning every game.

[Torn]

I'm just waiting for 2010 now. Only a few weeks away, the tactic sliders are really fucking me off now to the point where I can't get into a game because of it so I'm excited about being able to use the tactics creator.

[Alf]

Games are really struggling to hold my interest at the moment, I had my Liverpool one that I go back to every so often, and the Newcastle one that's starting to get a bit boring as I'm winning every game.

Is it because you keep buying cheat players?

[Melv]

No it's because you're a massive cunt.

[Simon]

It probably is because you use cheat players all the time though. You basically play the same game every time with no variation, of course you will get bored.

[BBF]

Can you two post your latest squads? I wanna see how different they are.

[Simon]

Goalkeepers
Heurelho Gomes
Miguel Moya (£2m)
David Button

Defenders
Ledley King
Sebastian Bassong
Ryan Shawcross (£10.5m)
Michael Dawson
Benoit Assou-Ekotto
Maynor Figueroa (£3m)
Alan Hutton
Kyle Naughton
Kyle Walker

Midfielders
Wilson Palacios
Sulley Muntari (£10m)
Tom Huddlestone
Luka Modric
Martin Petrov (£3m)
Giovani
Aaron Lennon
David Bentley

Strikers
Jermain Defoe
Robbie Keane
Yakubu (£8m)
Peter Crouch

Halfway through season 2.

[Hlebsfall]

Is it because you keep buying cheat players Melv?

[BBF]

I like that you've kept the core squad, Simon.

How are the new players doing? Mainly Yakubu.

[Melv]

Current Newcastle squad:

Goalkeepers:
Steve Harper
Sebastien Viera

Defenders:
Jorge Andrade
Steven Taylor
Jose Enrique
Fabricio Coloccini
Dorin Goian
Ryan Taylor
Emiliano Insua (loan)
Fabio (loan)
Danny Simpson (loan)

Midfielders:
Sun Xiang
Julian De Guzman
Alan Smith
Geremi
Danny Guthrie
Kevin Nolan
Baek Ji-Hoon
Darron Gibson (loan)
Alexander Baumjohann (loan)

Forwards:
Peter Lovenkrands
Andy Carroll
Shola Ameobi
David N'Gog (loan)


OMG LOOK AT ALL THE CHEAT PLAYERS.

[Simon]

I don't like gutting a team straight away, I tend to only make changes during the off-season.

In the first season I bought Moya, Petrov and Shawcross before the season started as Cudicini was on idiotic wages and I wanted rid, plus King and Woodgate were injured for three months each at the start and Modric was injured too.

Moya was obviously only a backup keeper, he played the majority of cup games and the odd league game just to keep him fresh - for £2m plus low wages he's a great buy, I'm already considering the possibility of cashing in on Gomes (would get £10m+ for him), sticking Moya in as my #1 and either promoting Button or getting in an experienced #2, which would probably be Matt Murray as he's third choice at Wolves.

Shawcross felt like a bit of a waste at first - King managed to play fairly regularly, and Bassong and Dawson forged a very decent partnership unexpectedly. Woodgate was absolute balls though, and I sold him at the end of the first season. Shawcross only played about 20-25 games, but prior to the start of the second season I decided to go with King and Shawcross as my first-choice partnership, with Bassong getting regular action as King's backup and Dawson playing mainly cup games and in Europe (not arsed with the UEFA Cup).

Petrov has been fairly good, certainly for the price I paid. I got him for £3m as he wasn't getting a look in at City, and sold Kranjcar to Blackburn for about £7m, so it was a great move financially. He doesn't play very often, partly because he gets knackered after a game (usually down in the 60s fitness-wise after 90 minutes) and partly because I mostly use Modric out on the left, preferring steel in the centre. Against the weaker teams, though, I play Modric alongside a defensive mid and play Petrov down the left, and he can be very good. In the second season the plan is to gradually phase Giovani into the side, and hopefully sell Petrov for a few squid at the end of the season.

Muntari is the type of player I have needed since the start, and finally managed to get him in just before the start of the 10/11 season. My plan is to have two tough-tackling centre mids who can play a bit too, and Muntari fits the bill perfectly. Inter bought Pizarro and Renato so Muntari wanted out, and I picked him up for a decent fee. He's maybe been a little underwhelming so far, but certainly hasn't been bad, and he's scored a few goals early on which is a help as I didn't get many from centre mid last season. The main thing is that I have another solid midfielder that means I can be comfortable playing with Modric and Lennon on the wings even against the top teams in a 4-4-2.

Yakubu has been something of a flop so far. He seems to be crap when he starts, but scores when he comes on as sub. It's annoying though, as my plan was to have two big/little partnerships - Defoe/Yakubu and Keane/Crouch - but I'm having to stick with Defoe and Keane up front. His record isn't terrible and hopefully he'll come good soon enough, but I'm regretting the purchase a bit. It was a straight choice between a £10m bid for Yakubu, a £20m bid for C. Cole or a £15m bid for Arouna Kone, and I'm beginning to think I went for the third best option. Typical Jewish mentality, going for the cheap option.

Finished sixth in the first season after a disgusting collapse with five or six games left, should have wrapped up fourth or even third comfortably. Think I'm about eighth at the moment after about seven or eight games in year 2, but I've already played United, Arsenal and City.

[Alf]

I like that you've kept the core squad, Simon.

How are the new players doing? Mainly Yakubu.

Yeah, the Spurs squad on this game is pretty deep in terms of depth so doesn't really need much work.

In my first season or so I usually only sign 1 or 2 players.

[Simon]

I am going to start a new game with Spurs tonight and get my creative JUICES flowing by doing some kind of write-up of the season on here. I don't care if no-one wants to read it, fuck you.

[Melv]

Need any signing tips mate?

[Simon]

I'll probably just edit all -2 players into the side, or maybe make all my youth teamers have PA 200.

[BBF]

Buy Margas. I love the little fella.

[Hlebsfall]

Simon can only play Championship manager '88 as he is a gippo who uses a Spectrum.

[Simon]

Kevin Sheedy, PA190, free kicks 20.

[Matt E]

More fun from Champo 2010 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuYa71QZd6k

Love how they can't even get the laws of the game sorted out :D

[Alf]

Robbie Keane did something similar once.

[Matt E]

Aye but not from a goal kick, where no other player should be allowed in the penalty area. This is just ridiculously poor.

[turdpower]

Christ, how has that guy bothered to play for 7 seasons?

[Melv]

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/football-manager-2010/

DEMO

[Grimario]

:hyper:

I love Football Manager

:hyper:

[Melv]

I like the demo so far. The skin is nice on the eyes for a change, despite being so fucking WHITE.

[Grimario]

Racist.

[Melv]

Loving the fact you can customise what you see on your squad views. I've currently got it set up to show Goals, Assists, Shots/Passes/Tackles ratio, Assistant's opinion on the best position, value and form.

[Grimario]

I love how crisp everything is now. The animations appear more fluid, stadiums exist and are filled with a crowd (albeit a moving cardboard cutout), menu transition makes more sense and the feedback you get now is fantastic. New replay angles too = win.

[Melv]

Yeah the crowd/stadium is going to be great when you progress with a lower league team and actually see the stadium get bigger and fill with fans.

The new 'home' screen is an improvement too.

[Lazurus]

After about 2 hours of the demo last night I've just ordered the game from Zavi at some stupidly low price. :yes:

[Grimario]

Laz, do you think you might love me again if you get to play as the amazing striker at the front of your particular Rajah squad, all in a crisp, cleaner game where you can see the net bulge and the fans cheer?

Rajah FC 3d (with stadium)! coming to a forum near you soon :heart:

[Lazurus]

I might if you use my idea of having all the players coming from a tin pot nation so the two rival clubs' players all play in just the one national team; and wouldn't it make the summer more fun?

[Melv]

Rajahland seems like a good idea.

Maybe instead of the two Rajah clubs we can all pick a team to play for in one of 4 countries or something?

[Grimario]

I might if you use my idea of having all the players coming from a tin pot nation so the two rival clubs' players all play in just the one national team; and wouldn't it make the summer more fun?

:chin:

Guess it depends how difficult making a nation is in the game. I know making a new club was impossible in the past, though I think they have absolutely torn the editor to pieces and it has received a massive overhaul, so I may well be able to do that.

I will make it happen :yes: A new country, off the coast of whatever league we end up playing, called Rajahstan. Then we infiltrate some other countries league, a la Swansea and Cardiff :yes:

:chin:

Your idea has merit, Laz... merit.

And to show my appreciation, in my demo game right now, I won't sell Pavelychenko despite some interest in him. I would be hard pressed to anyway, having seen him put FIVE past Piacenza in a friendly.

[Torn]

Demo demo demo cannot wait til it finishes fucking downloading HURRY UP

[Melv]

Holy fuck the new tactics are fucking amazing.

[Grimario]

I hate this game already.



Mostly because its 1am and I have work in 7 hours :happysad:

[Lazurus]

Rajahland seems like a good idea.

Maybe instead of the two Rajah clubs we can all pick a team to play for in one of 4 countries or something?

The European Rajahships.

AC Rajah in Italy
Rajahlona in Spain
Rajah United in England

All of the players come from the tiny landlocked nation of Rajstonia in Eastern Europe. You don't need to make a new country just rename and existing one and kill all the players from it; just make sure they're in the EU.

33 spots; no subs for any side so everyone plays. :yes:? :no:?

The international idea at least works OK.

[turdpower]

That would only be fun if they met in the Champions League. Which to do, you'd need to make all the players amazing. Which could be boring.

[Lazurus]

That would only be fun if they met in the Champions League. Which to do, you'd need to make all the players amazing. Which could be boring.

Yeah I agree, it's a step to far.

We should all be in the German League this time around but all come from San Marino (renamed Raj Marino or something) Bayern Rajah and SV Werder Rajah.

GRIM; start the thread!!!! Ideas are coming.

[Grimario]

Yeah, they all need to be in the same league. Don't mind the 3 team idea, 33 players so everyone plays :chin:

Will contemplate it over the next few months waiting for the game to come out & inevitable vital patches to be released.

[turdpower]

Rajikistan.

[Grimario]

Doesn't this look rather excellent? Snow! Fucking lovely.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/Grimario/snow.jpg

[Melv]

Nice touch.

[Grimario]

I think there might be a sub-standard version of snow in 09... but its the camera angle that makes it here. Touchline = win.

[turdpower]

2022/23: The year after Man United get relegated, Chelsea have just gone down.

CRAZY SCENES.

United came back up straight away.

[DavidUK]

I love how crisp everything is now. The animations appear more fluid, stadiums exist and are filled with a crowd (albeit a moving cardboard cutout), menu transition makes more sense and the feedback you get now is fantastic. New replay angles too = win.

:yes:

Everything does look lovely. The 3D pitch is brilliantly smooth.

Only been playing for five minutes but it seems great. Not sure what I think of the bright skin though.

[DavidUK]

And all of these touchline instructions mean I'll have to deeply scout the other teams to allow me to strategically take them apart.

[Torn]

I really like the new tactics, mostly the positional settings. Before it was a case of basically looking at that document to see what the right slider settings were to make someone act a certain role, now it's just so easy.

[DavidUK]

Back to FM 2009 and in 2013 Real Madrid have just offered me a job with a £146m transfer budget :drool:

[Melv]

:yes:

Everything does look lovely. The 3D pitch is brilliantly smooth.

Only been playing for five minutes but it seems great. Not sure what I think of the bright skin though.

There's a dark version which is much easier on the eyes.

[Grimario]

Does this really come out on 30th? That is fantastic if that is true... :chin:

Just pre-ordered for $60... which must be around 4p for you lot :yes: (or £34)

[Lazurus]

I'm still loving the demo.

I preordered it for £17.50 Grim; hope it turns up early. :panic:

[Dazz]

Does anyone have access to a demo that actually works and doesn't require that steam rubbish?

The link from the official FM2010 site gives a download that doesn't work

[Melv]

I posted a link to it in this thread only a page or so back.

[Grimario]

£17.50? Fucking hell, we really are robbed over here when it comes to software. That's nearly half the price of our cheapest place :irked: Most places have it listed for between $80 (£45) and $100 (£56) here :(

[son_of_foley]

How much would it be on steam for you?

[Grimario]

Tis about $75AU on Steam plus whatever conversion costs there are for using my Australian credit card to pay for stuff in $US :happysad:

Pretty chuffed that I got it for $60, to be fair. Plus I like having the box. Box is good.

[son_of_foley]

Box is good. I agree with that

[Grimario]

The case you get the game in isn't too bad either.


Zing!

:ashamed:

[turdpower]

I like a box as much as the next man, but I wouldn't pay that for it. Christ.

[Grimario]

The only cheaper option is pirating or waiting till 2011 comes out and getting it for $20 in a bargain bin.

[Lazurus]

You should just pirate it. :yes:

Stealing is good.

[Grimario]

If I pirate it, you get to be the guy who brings the oranges out at half time for your Rajah squad :no:

[son_of_foley]

Laz pre-order another copy for him and then post it to him and he'll pay you (probably)

[Lazurus]

If I pirate it, you get to be the guy who brings the oranges out at half time for your Rajah squad :no:

I don't think anyone's had half time oranges since 1957 mate.

[son_of_foley]

I had them when I played youth football so don't lie.

I do fancy the old JELLY BABY/CHRIS BRUNT option though

[Grimario]

Laz pre-order another copy for him and then post it to him and he'll pay you (probably)
I have already pre-ordered. There was the "ship in from UK" option, however once postage was taken into account, the extra time it would take AND the possibility that the DRM crap would cause havoc here (like it did to a bunch of people last year), I think a local purchase makes more sense.


I don't think anyone's had half time oranges since 1957 mate.

Tough for you then Laz. Guess you would be stuck as a knob polisher. Or is a shoe shiner? :chin:

[Simon]

I used to have half time oranges about 13 years ago!

[Torn]

I hope they release a small data update when the game's released, as there's loads of loans and shit that arn't on there. Its weird getting Obika on loan at Brentford when I know if the game wasn't WRONG I couldn't get him.

Sam Wood is worth like 350k in the demo which is great if not a bit weird. His stats are a bit shit and all wrong but that's not the point. And Ryan Dickson is crap when he should be our best player. OH WELL.

I can't bloody wait for release I want to get properly started on a Brentford game. Been playing random teams like PLYMOUTH (Rory Fallon what a great man) which has been fun, trying out the new tactics and stuff.

[Hlebsfall]

Sam Wood should be worth 350 million.

[turdpower]

Surely you could get a "job" as beta tester for Brentford, Torn?

[Simon]

If he can't think of anything beta to do.

[turdpower]

Italian wanking.

BETA MEATA.

[Torn]

I'm going to make a massive post in the BRENTFORD DATA ISSUES thread on the sigames forums. Some cunt has already mentioned Dickson and Wood and made a really rubbish post about what stats Sam Wood has wrong.

[Hlebsfall]

Left Foot 20
Pace 20
Skills 20
Crossing 4

(He might be able to cross now, I don't know)

[Torn]

He still can't.

Work Rate 20

[turdpower]

I know it would be copying Pro a bit, but wouldn't it be better if the stats were out of 99? Just give a wider variation of peoples abilities.

[Dazz]

Thats the demo I can't get to work melv. I save the file and then the set up file won't run

[Alf]

Is the demo of FM10 out?

[Alf]

I know it would be copying Pro a bit, but wouldn't it be better if the stats were out of 99? Just give a wider variation of peoples abilities.

Unnessecary complication I reckon...

Is there going to be much difference in a player with 88 concentration and 89?

[Lazurus]

Is the demo of FM10 out?

Has been for ages mate.

I just completed the demo as Spurs; it seems too easy to me; I just changed formation to fit my most fit players each week and won 95% of the matches.

[Alf]

Bum, why did none of you gays tell me?

[turdpower]

Unnessecary complication I reckon...

Is there going to be much difference in a player with 88 concentration and 89?

Well yeah, 1. :D

[Simon]

I actually think it should be the other way, and have it as a written definition, whether that's one word (very poor/poor/average/good/very good/excellent/world-class) or one word followed by a slightly more detailed description (similar to the 'traits' function). The numbers element has always detracted from the reality of the game for me; I think it's fine for the editor, but I'd prefer it to be shown in 'real-life' descriptions in the game.

[turdpower]

That's a good idea actually.

And I also think players should rarely have "20". Nobody is perfect and unless you're faster than Usain Bolt, you shouldn't have 20 for speed.

[Melv]

I actually think it should be the other way, and have it as a written definition, whether that's one word (very poor/poor/average/good/very good/excellent/world-class) or one word followed by a slightly more detailed description (similar to the 'traits' function). The numbers element has always detracted from the reality of the game for me; I think it's fine for the editor, but I'd prefer it to be shown in 'real-life' descriptions in the game.
There's always the graphical view if you want it to be more realistic.

[turdpower]

But that graph is made from the numbers. So it's no different, really.

[Melv]

What do you think the written definition would be made up from?

[Simon]

The point is that it's still not an attempt at defining players how they would be defined in real life. You wouldn't say Theo Walcott had acceleration 20, you'd say he's one of the quickest players in the world over ten yards. I'd prefer definitions of their attributes (even if it's only one word, I appreciate they have to make it all accessible on one screen where possible) as opposed to numerical values. Perhaps a one-word rating, and then if you click on it, it can go into more depth.

This is in an ideal world, it's not an essential alteration and in reality it's very superficial. In a way the numbers are descriptions, just in a different way. For 19-20 read "world-class", 15-18 read "very good" and so on. But I would prefer it if it was displayed as a description.

[turdpower]

Well if we go with Simons layout: very poor/poor/average/good/very good/excellent/world-class. So it could be;

Very poor 1-3
Poor 4-6
Average 8-10
Good 11-13
Very Good 14-16
Excellent 17/18
World Class 19/20

So that when you compare players it isn't perhaps just numbers so you can go "oh yeah, well he's got 1 better at heading, so I'll sign him." In this instance, if one had 17 for heading and the other had 18, both would say "excellent". Maybe.

[Simon]

Well average should surely be 9-11.

I'd say:

0-5: very poor
6-8: poor
9-11: average
12-14: good
15-16: very good
17-18: excellent
19-20: world-class

[turdpower]

I just started off doing it as a 3 points per stat, then ran out towards the end.

[Melv]

Well average should surely be 9-11.

I'd say:

0-5: very poor
6-8: poor
9-11: average
12-14: good
15-16: very good
17-18: excellent
19-20: world-class
That makes sense :yes:

[Grimario]

Well average should surely be 9-11.

I'd say:

0-5: very poor
6-8: poor
9-11: average
12-14: good
15-16: very good
17-18: excellent
19-20: world-class

Sure you have cant have such tight ranges for descriptions though? For me, if you want descriptions, the most you should do in there is 5 total....

1-4: awful
5-8: poor
9-12: average
13-16: good
17-20: world class

The more you narrow the range that defines a "name", the more it becomes just a "name" representing a specific stat rather than a range. Of course, if you do it over a rating scale of 100, it makes it easier....

1-5: dire
6-10: awful
11-20: inept
21-30: poor
31-40: below average
41-60: average
61-70: above average
71-80: good
81-90: excellent
91-95: superb
96-100: world class

:dunno:

[Grimario]

So, LLM games are still fantastic and Ilkeston are immense. I have reached the FIFTH round of the FA Cup three League One scalps (Bristol Rovers, Walsall and Norwich) and a Championship side (Wolves) as my four wins so far. Have Villa in the 5th round so expecting to go out - unless they do what Wolves did and play ONE player who had more than 5 appearances this season. Amusing that they underrated me that much :cool:

I still think it is far too easy to sign good clubless youth and good past it has been superstars, like Dwight Yorke, Ivan Rosado and Antoine Sibierski. With three 30+ year olds who were legitimate stars (or close to it), I have been tearing the league up. Yorke attracted interest from a few MLS sides and a few Championship sides but wouldn't leave me... until West Brom (EPL) offered me a half a million for him :wtf: Bit their bloody hand off. Sibierski has been amazing, doubt the Blue Square Prem sees any technical ability like his in the real world - is absolutely tearing it up. 28 goals, 17 assists in all competitions for my AMC is pretty fucking excellent. Rosado has also been immense, 33 goals for my lone striker :yes:

I managed to get the Tonga job as well and after few embarrassing friendlies (7-1 against Albania :nono:), I got some good form against other garbage island nations and, despite a 4-1 loss to New Zealand, finished 2nd in the Oceania Nations Cup qualifiers and have the two legged final coming up against New Zealand for my change to go and get molested at the Confederation Cup :yes: Having said that, the Egypt and Ghana national jobs just came up, so I have applied for both with absolutely no expectation of getting either.

[Beefy]

So last season in my career game the Football World was turned upside down. My Southend side won the FA Cup and the League Cup, and made the final of the UEFA Cup and yet that was by no means the big news in a season in which Liverpool were relegated and Dunfermline won the SPL!

[Lazurus]

My new game's shipped!!!

Now let's see if those wankers at the Post Office ever get it to me.

[Grimario]

Mine shipped too!!!!!! Will be so stoked if it arrives tomorrow so I can waste my weekend on it. :hyper:

[Alf]

I'm wishing I pre-ordered it now. GAY.

[N.E.R.F.]

What are the chances I can just walk into a Tesco at lunchtime tomorrow and pick this up, guys?

[Alf]

Why not walk into a HMV or Game instead?

[N.E.R.F.]

I'm going home tomorrow morning - nearest one of those to my house is a good 20 miles away, so unless I go into town before I leave, Tesco is my most likely option for having the game in my hands that afternoon.

[Alf]

Alright mate. I didn't ask for a sob story. This ain't the x-factor.

[N.E.R.F.]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/12/11/article-1093814-02C5780B000005DC-182_233x225.jpg

[Simon]

I imagine I will steal this at some point in the near future.

[son_of_foley]

You told us you all got a proper job now so if you don't actually pay for it you are a dickhead

[Simon]

Not really. I will play it for a few days and then almost certainly get rid of it in favour of 01/02, as I have done every year since Champo 4 came out. Not spending £30 on maybe two or three days' worth of play.

[son_of_foley]

Get the DEMO then

[Simon]

Why would I get the demo when I can get the full version?

[son_of_foley]

You've said you're only playing it for 4 days so why steal it when there's a demo which will cover that period then you can go back to 01/02 for the lack of challenge

[Simon]

Because I might end up playing it for six days, or ten days. Who knows?

[son_of_foley]

Your reason for stealing the game is that you'll be too bored of it for it to be worth the money but the demo isn't quite long enough for you to get bored?

[Simon]

My reason for stealing it is that I may want to play it on occasion but almost certainly not enough to warrant buying it. If there was no option to download it, I still wouldn't buy it as I wouldn't get my money's worth, so as far as I'm concerned they aren't losing out on money they would otherwise have got.

I have made the mistake of buying it and not getting my money's worth on three occasions IIRC (Champo 4, FM2005, FM2006, plus I won FM2008), why would I continue doing so when I can get my small amount of use of it for free? You can ignore or deny this justification is 'right' if you want, but I'm hardly going to spend £30 on something that I know realistically I won't play much at all. I don't really care if you accept this or not.

[son_of_foley]

I would say if you're not going to play it much you don't deserve to be able to download it for free. I would say taking it and keep in mind that people taking illegal copies made it difficult for people to register real copies seems pointless and would make you a dickhead. I too don't really care if you accept this or not

[Simon]

Deserving isn't relevant. I can download it, and I'm morally ok with it because I know that if I felt it justified my £30, I would be willing to spend it. £30 for a game that lasts you a year is no hassle at all, £30 for a game that you're unlikely to play more than a few hours of feels like much more.

[son_of_foley]

Is there a point at playing it when you will go and buy it if you're into it? Yes or No

[Simon]

If I was enjoying it to the point that I wanted to play it as often as I do 01/02, then definitely, because I'd be into it to the point that I'd want to have the booklet in my hand, the box on my shelf, I'd want to be able to have it installed at my home back in London and only have to bring the CD back with me.

As I've said already, in the past when I have got myself into a game I've always bought it. I never miss a Pro, I never missed a Champo until I stopped enjoying them. When there's a film that comes out that I really want to see, I'll go to the cinema rather than download it. You're trying to portray me as an arsehole who is trying to rip off SI, and it's just not true. I'm just not willing to keep forking out thirty squid every year for a game I won't end up playing a week later, it's not value for money and that is a higher priority than any vague notion of the morality of it.

[son_of_foley]

No I'm not portraying you as an arsehole but you are ripping SI off. If you want to test if you like the new system they've kindly given you a demo to look at.


It's the equivalent to downloading the film you want to see because the last one of his was a bit crap and this one was good and you enjoyed it but at the end of the day you went and watched the old ones again anyway. You're so busy trying to justify it despite saying you don't care what I think about it.

[Murphy]

I can't find Champo 01/02 anywhere. :nono:

[Simon]

No I'm not portraying you as an arsehole but you are ripping SI off. If you want to test if you like the new system they've kindly given you a demo to look at.


It's the equivalent to downloading the film you want to see because the last one of his was a bit crap and this one was good and you enjoyed it but at the end of the day you went and watched the old ones again anyway. You're so busy trying to justify it despite saying you don't care what I think about it.

I'm only trying to justify it because you asked. I've given my honest answers...if I was worried about justifying it I wouldn't have said I was nicking it in the first place.

[Simon]

I can't find Champo 01/02 anywhere. :nono:

It's freeware now, go to www.champman0102.co.uk I think.

[Simon]

Sorry it's the official Champo website:

http://www.championshipmanager.co.uk/

[Melv]

Si, where is it on that site? I can't find it.

EDIT: Never mind, got it.

http://eidos.http.internapcdn.net/eidos_vitalstream_com/cm0102/cm0102.zip

[Murphy]

Your organization's Internet use policy restricts access to this web page at this time.

Fuck off.

[Funboy]

Motherfuckers.

I just finished my fifth season at Boston United and after bringing them from League Two obscurity to the Championship with back to back promotions, I spent two seasons consolidating my place in the Championship before mounting an unexpected promotion chase this year; despite this all the players with contracts expiring refused to sign new ones and four are leaving FOR FREE to teams below me! I then got knocked out of the playoff by an own goal..

Now, the board despite being 'thrilled with my continued commitment' have taken half my money to rebuild the stadium and consequently have demanded I slash the wage bill!

Ugh. Frustration. Think Ill apply for any jobs that come up over the summer.

[Funboy]

ULTIMATUM!!

failed. Im expected to clear out my desk by tomorrow...
Fuck'em.

[MMH]

If I was enjoying it to the point that I wanted to play it as often as I do 01/02, then definitely, because I'd be into it to the point that I'd want to have the booklet in my hand, the box on my shelf, I'd want to be able to have it installed at my home back in London and only have to bring the CD back with me.


:lol: You so would not!

Me either like...

[Beefy]

Si is a thieving bastard, no matter who he tries to dress it up. If you don't think something is worth 30 quid then do without it.

[turdpower]

I fail to believe nobody has downloaded anything they could have bought.

[son_of_foley]

Dont think anyone is saying that but I think something like this you can stretch to if you are working regularly and if not and you're reasoning is I'll get bored of it anyway dont bother getting it.

[Alf]

I have a strict rule about downloading Footy Man. The way I see it... I get so many hours out of it, I get so much enjoyment out of it, why wouldn't I pay full price for it?

I'll happily download something disposable like a film that'll I'll watch once and never think about again. But footy man is special. It deserves to be funded.

[turdpower]

I've downloaded it once and that was only because my disc got so scratched it wouldn't work.

Fortunately you don't need the disc these days, which is nice.

[Simon]

I have a strict rule about downloading Footy Man. The way I see it... I get so many hours out of it, I get so much enjoyment out of it, why wouldn't I pay full price for it?

I'll happily download something disposable like a film that'll I'll watch once and never think about again. But footy man is special. It deserves to be funded.

Which is exactly my point! If I was going to play it regularly, I would buy it. MMH might pour scorn on that idea but it's a fact that I bought all the Champos up until I stopped enjoying them to the point that I would play them for any real amount of time. As has already been said, £30 isn't a huge amount of money for something you're going to spend a huge amount of time playing, I would have no problem paying it. But I'm not going to pay £30 for something I won't play regularly. And any idea of "well you don't deserve to play it at all then" is just idiotic. Deserving doesn't come into it.

I seem to remember when the whole piracy thing came up re. Champo/FM before, huge double standards were exposed where FM was somehow a less acceptable thing to steal. You can't pick and choose your morals, either illegal downloading is immoral or it isn't.

[son_of_foley]

I thought you weren't going to try and justify it as you don't care. Why are you calling us idiotic for thinking you dont deserve the full game. There's a demo for you to try. If you want to try the game out there it is. Why would you need to steal it, my main issue is when people who pirate the game are using actual real-life activation codes and impeeding those who have paid for it.

Any discussion about the morality of downloading is pointless. I'm quite comfortable with my downloading habits thanks especially as I know that I'm going to hinder anyone who had paid for the item from enjoying it like a lot who pirated FM did last year

[Alf]

Hmmm, for me it's not so much a compromise of morales, but I have more respect for the product.

[Simon]

I thought you weren't going to try and justify it as you don't care. Why are you calling us idiotic for thinking you dont deserve the full game. There's a demo for you to try. If you want to try the game out there it is. Why would you need to steal it, my main issue is when people who pirate the game are using actual real-life activation codes and impeeding those who have paid for it.

Any discussion about the morality of downloading is pointless. I'm quite comfortable with my downloading habits thanks especially as I know that I'm going to hinder anyone who had paid for the item from enjoying it like a lot who pirated FM did last year

It's an interesting discussion. I don't feel I have to justify myself but that doesn't mean that as part of a debate on it I won't do so. I'm not meaning to call you idiotic for saying I don't deserve it, I'm saying the concept of deserving it is idiotic. They probably amount to the same thing, but it IS irrelevant, by virtue of the fact that no one has any jurisdiction where they can look at whether it's deserved or not and decide whether I can play it. The concept of deserving it has no impact on the discussion, it doesn't change things either.

Why is a discussion about downloading pointless? Surely it's always good to get opposing views, think of potential solutions, punishments etc. A blanket opinion that discussing it at all is pointless is as idiotic as the concept of deserving it.

[son_of_foley]

No what's idiotic is that you believe yourself to be deserving of it because they've dissapointed you in the past and you think it's ok because you won't get the enjoyment. How can no-one have the jurisdiction of looking as to whether it's deserved or not that you play it. Others fund the development of the series and you take it under the guise of probably getting bored of it anyway.

I actually dont download an awful lot of copyright content. I genuinely don't. Occasionally music but even thats dropped now Amazon has lead to prices being competitive on downloads but mainly tv which is shown on the channels I have and pay for but instead of shelling out for V+ I just download them and watch them. Don't download films and don't pirate software.

You say all illegal downloading is the same but as I've stated time and time again and you still havent reacted to it, how are you pirating it are you using an activation code? You are aware that the activation code you use might well have been the one in the box I'm paying for. You are aware I might have to spend hours getting it sorted out to circumvent the stringent controls put in place to avoid piracy because of it? You do realise that by stealing the game you are in that way damaging a paying customers enjoyment of it.

It's more akin to working in HMV but removing the CD from some of a customers purchases than it is to downloading it as you're impacting on legitimate sales and quite possibly goodwill to the product.

I seriously doubt you would pay for it if you started enjoying it more so you'll probably decide it somehow makes it even for the poor games you have had before.

You've equated all downloading of content to be the same. You've made a blanket statement about that it's first and foremost a ludicrous statement. You're trying to absolve yourself from any guilt by making everyone else guilty of the same crime.

If you want to steal it and not support a series of games you enjoy thats your call I don't care until it impacts on those who have paid.

[Simon]

No what's idiotic is that you believe yourself to be deserving of it because they've dissapointed you in the past and you think it's ok because you won't get the enjoyment. How can no-one have the jurisdiction of looking as to whether it's deserved or not that you play it. Others fund the development of the series and you take it under the guise of probably getting bored of it anyway.
I don't consider myself deserving of it, there is NO ELEMENT OF DESERVING TO THIS ISSUE. Either I do or don't download it, the question of deserving it isn't relevant. And of course no one has that jurisdiction, they can say whether they think I deserve to play it or not but that has absolutely no impact on whether I do or don't.


I actually dont download an awful lot of copyright content. I genuinely don't. Occasionally music but even thats dropped now Amazon has lead to prices being competitive on downloads but mainly tv which is shown on the channels I have and pay for but instead of shelling out for V+ I just download them and watch them. Don't download films and don't pirate software.
So why do you see fit to download some music when you think it's overpriced for what you'll get out of it, but say it's morally unacceptable for me to do the same? And you don't fancy paying for the watch-again facilities, so you download instead. I have the top Virgin package with the watch again facility - if you and all the other downloaders were willing to pay for the package rather than get it for free off the internet, the package wouldn't cost me as much. What utter, rank hypocrisy. I'm not claiming to have the moral high ground here, but neither am I morally bankrupt for downloading a game I will not play enough to warrant the price and am not downloading INSTEAD of buying it.


You say all illegal downloading is the same but as I've stated time and time again and you still havent reacted to it, how are you pirating it are you using an activation code? You are aware that the activation code you use might well have been the one in the box I'm paying for. You are aware I might have to spend hours getting it sorted out to circumvent the stringent controls put in place to avoid piracy because of it? You do realise that by stealing the game you are in that way damaging a paying customers enjoyment of it.
I have no idea of what happens with this activation code, obviously I would ideally not get one that would impact other people. I didn't bother downloading last year's, owned the year's before that legitimately and prior to that I don't remember this being an issue. I would suggest that if this is the case then it's a massively stupid move on SI's part - yes you can point the blame at the people downloading illegally, but given that illegal downloading is a fundamental of PC gaming nowadays, why on earth would they create a system that works in this way? That's not an avoidance of blame, but certainly blame doesn't lie solely at the door of the people stealing the game when the makers are creating a scenario that puts the legitimate customers out so that they don't lose quite so much money.


It's more akin to working in HMV but removing the CD from some of a customers purchases than it is to downloading it as you're impacting on legitimate sales and quite possibly goodwill to the product.
Sure, it's exactly like that if you mix the reality with a huge amount of hyperbole.


I seriously doubt you would pay for it if you started enjoying it more so you'll probably decide it somehow makes it even for the poor games you have had before.
Well you have no right to say this and no basis for saying it. If you choose to disbelieve the facts I've stated about my history of buying the game, that's your choice - but it means you're arguing against a point of view that doesn't exist. I don't think SI owe me anything - I didn't enjoy the game but they can't cater to everyone, no problem there. But the fact that in previous years when I still had faith in the product I bought it religiously year on year is enough proof you should need to believe that I would buy it. If you don't want to believe that, more fool you - continue arguing against this other-world Simon who sets you up perfectly for all your points to be undeniable.


You've equated all downloading of content to be the same. You've made a blanket statement about that it's first and foremost a ludicrous statement. You're trying to absolve yourself from any guilt by making everyone else guilty of the same crime.

If you want to steal it and not support a series of games you enjoy thats your call I don't care until it impacts on those who have paid.
Not everyone is guilty of the same crime. You, however, are. You have admitted to downloading TV shows which you shouldn't, and music you shouldn't, in order to save money. I pay for my TV shows through Virgin, but I don't dog you down for it because that would make me a huge hypocrite - something you don't seem to have a problem with.

[son_of_foley]

I don't consider myself deserving of it, there is NO ELEMENT OF DESERVING TO THIS ISSUE. Either I do or don't download it, the question of deserving it isn't relevant. And of course no one has that jurisdiction, they can say whether they think I deserve to play it or not but that has absolutely no impact on whether I do or don't.


What an utterly stupid point of view. Whether you are deserving or not of the game won't stop you from downloading it because you don't think its wrong. Sometimes people think murdering someone else is ok



So why do you see fit to download some music when you think it's overpriced for what you'll get out of it, but say it's morally unacceptable for me to do the same? And you don't fancy paying for the watch-again facilities, so you download instead. I have the top Virgin package with the watch again facility - if you and all the other downloaders were willing to pay for the package rather than get it for free off the internet, the package wouldn't cost me as much. What utter, rank hypocrisy. I'm not claiming to have the moral high ground here, but neither am I morally bankrupt for downloading a game I will not play enough to warrant the price and am not downloading INSTEAD of buying it.


The thing is I dont download music very often. The only time I've done it recently is when something has leaked and I wanted it before the release date. Example being Kid Cudi which I then went and bought. Now that I'm earning a decent salary if I want something I pay for it and that's the truth. Also if I did download an album I'm taking an activation code from an actual customer am I?

The TV channels are part of the package I pay for Simon. I have had the top package before and the amount of things ondemand to watch again doesn't shift massively. I could watch flashforward on 5onDemand but it's tricky for me to stream that to the PS3 comfortably due to my wireless internet so I download it onto a memory stick. Its not the same as taking a £30 game when there is a free demo for you there.

Nothing I am doing is impacting on your cost in anyway shape or form. Please try and explain how it's hypocrisy to be annoyed that your selfish actions for a game you'll only play for a day or two which can impact on paying customers directly is the same as me downloading television programmes which are broadcast on channels I pay for and in the most case streamed live on the internet.




I have no idea of what happens with this activation code, obviously I would ideally not get one that would impact other people. I didn't bother downloading last year's, owned the year's before that legitimately and prior to that I don't remember this being an issue. I would suggest that if this is the case then it's a massively stupid move on SI's part - yes you can point the blame at the people downloading illegally, but given that illegal downloading is a fundamental of PC gaming nowadays, why on earth would they create a system that works in this way? That's not an avoidance of blame, but certainly blame doesn't lie solely at the door of the people stealing the game when the makers are creating a scenario that puts the legitimate customers out so that they don't lose quite so much money.

No Simon the system is not to blame. That's like saying banks are responsible for credit card theft as they've given people a way of paying for things remotely and that can be abused. The system is in place due to a lack of a better way to control access to the game as piracy is so high. What else should they do? Let everyone steal the game and play it easily?

Naive.





Sure, it's exactly like that if you mix the reality with a huge amount of hyperbole.


No Simon taking someone elses activation code has a direct impact on that person. Meaning that the goods theyve paid for will not work. They will have to either return to the store to get a new copy or spend a while on customer service lines working out whats happened



Well you have no right to say this and no basis for saying it. If you choose to disbelieve the facts I've stated about my history of buying the game, that's your choice - but it means you're arguing against a point of view that doesn't exist. I don't think SI owe me anything - I didn't enjoy the game but they can't cater to everyone, no problem there. But the fact that in previous years when I still had faith in the product I bought it religiously year on year is enough proof you should need to believe that I would buy it. If you don't want to believe that, more fool you - continue arguing against this other-world Simon who sets you up perfectly for all your points to be undeniable.


I'm using real life examples of people I knew who downloaded it previously for similar reasons and when it came to it and I said 2/3 months down the line will you pay for it. It was I'll wait till the price drops then it was another one is coming out soon I'll just pay for that.

You've said yourself why would you use a demo when you can get the full version. Why would you pay for the full version when you already had it? At what point will you decide I have got enough value out of it to warrant buying a full copy of it?

You're going all guns blazing about hypocricy after crying on about not needing to justify yourself. To try and compare me downloading TV which is freely available legally just for ease of viewing as to you taking an activation code is laughable. You're laughable.

You're applying ridiculous concepts like being deserving to play the game. Then saying no such concept can exist. What exactly are you arguing? Everyone else does it it's ok for you to do it?





Not everyone is guilty of the same crime. You, however, are. You have admitted to downloading TV shows which you shouldn't, and music you shouldn't, in order to save money. I pay for my TV shows through Virgin, but I don't dog you down for it because that would make me a huge hypocrite - something you don't seem to have a problem with.

Ahahahaha nonsense. Since I'm now longer a student I don't steal music. Music however is broadcast on Radio Stations I pay for and available on my playstation/spotify and other places for free. FM isn't.

I pay for the TV shows as much as you do you idiot. If you can explain how me downloading an episode of modern family as its shown when I'm playing football or Flashforward when again I'm playing football is the same as taking the game from a paying customer then please do.

I'm honestly waiting for this.

Simon who doesn't care enough to justify himself has now spent a few hours desperatley trying to justify it after his original boastful posting about how he intended to steal it sometime soon.

[Simon]

I give up.

[son_of_foley]

I think you're a dickhead for impacting directly on paying customers. If you think downloading flashforward rather than streaming it is the equivalent of taking the activation code then yes Simon I am guilty of the exact same crime and am also a dickhead. You've held up a MIRROR OF TRUTH TO ME AND I CAN SEE WHAT A SCOUNDREL I AM, download the game simon and impact on an innocent customer. You've earned it and although it won't mean anything to you, you are truely deserving of it.

You're right illegal downloading is a fundamental part of PC gaming and by getting annoyed about it impacting those who paid I'm basically against PC gaming and trying to ruin it.

[son_of_foley]

I give up.

Good, you're not going to change my mind and neither are you. You wanted a debate on it. You got it and you give up. No worry.

[Beefy]

The thing is that Simon is arguing from a position that, IMO, is almost impossible to defend. Not only is he stealing thirty quid's worth of game but he's impacting on someone who has bought it legally. He'd actually be better off going to HMV and shoplifting it, but of course he won't do that because for some reason that's seen as being socially less acceptable.

Downloading copyrighted material is a complicated issue because there are shades of grey involved and a lot of it is down to our own perceptions of what is right and wrong. I'd never download a computer game and think that those who do are cunts of the highest order. However I have recently downloaded new episodes of Curb Your Enthusiasm, Peep Show and South Park because I've not been able to get cable TV installed in my new flat yet and because I know that I'll buy them as soon as they are released on DVD/BluRay anyway. From Simon's perspective I'm sure he thinks I'm being a hypocrite. It's all about perspectives.

[Simon]

Beefy, honest question - do you not think the issue is blurred in any way by the fact that I won't get what I consider to be "my money's worth" and perhaps more importantly, the fact that I am not withholding money I would otherwise have spent on buying the game legitimately?

The validation issue DOES make it a little more dubious as it means that downloading it does have a direct (albeit minor) effect on people who have spent good money on the game, I'm not arguing against that but nor am I accountable as this is not something that was an issue when I have downloaded the game before, nor was it something I was aware of when I mentioned that I would be downloading it this time. In all honesty (again I have to accept I won't necessarily be believed, but there's nothing I can do about that), that has already put me off the idea of downloading the game as opposed to the demo, and if I bother getting it at all it will probably be the demo now.

Having said that, I think placing the blame for the verification thing squarely at the door of the thieves is disingenous - the SI guys have created this verification stuff knowing the effect it would have on the customers, is that fair? The downloaders are in the wrong and the most culpable of course, but it is mad to ignore SI's part in it. To ensure they make as much profit as possible, they have transferred their financial loss to hassle for the customers.

sof, I just cannot be arsed with point-scoring arguments. I'd rather debate the different aspects of the issue rather than see it as a competition to win. That's when these things turn into point-scoring exercises and become boring, and that's when I step away. And acting like the spoilt child in that last post doesn't make me any more interested in discussing it.

[son_of_foley]

You said you wanted to leave it we'll just leave it. My points were directed to the impact of stealing a validation code from a paying customer you compared it to the downloading of tv which I found laughable there's not going to be a change in thought from either of us so I'm happy just to leave it

[Beefy]

To be honest, Simon, I don't buy that arguement. Again, would you go to HMV and shoplift a copy?

I understand what you're saying and that that arguement squares your conscience and allows you to download it and that's fair enough. As I said, it's an arguement that can never be won because it's so dependent on an individual's perspective and values.

[turdpower]

You can just borrow it off a mate anyway, as you don't need the disc. I gave it to one of my mates.

[MMH]

The thing is that Simon is arguing from a position that, IMO, is almost impossible to defend. Not only is he stealing thirty quid's worth of game but he's impacting on someone who has bought it legally. He'd actually be better off going to HMV and shoplifting it, but of course he won't do that because for some reason that's seen as being socially less acceptable.

Downloading copyrighted material is a complicated issue because there are shades of grey involved and a lot of it is down to our own perceptions of what is right and wrong. I'd never download a computer game and think that those who do are cunts of the highest order. However I have recently downloaded new episodes of Curb Your Enthusiasm, Peep Show and South Park because I've not been able to get cable TV installed in my new flat yet and because I know that I'll buy them as soon as they are released on DVD/BluRay anyway. From Simon's perspective I'm sure he thinks I'm being a hypocrite. It's all about perspectives.

Thats what I think too basically.

I will readily admit I download a ton of stuff. I was gutted when Oink got busted a few years ago. Not because I lost access to a load of albums I was never going to buy but because I lost access to things that I would never be able to buy in my wildest dreams.

For example there was a White Stripes Live CD that was only available during the Pacific Rim tour years ago. Obviously im not from that part of the world and I justified downloading that because other than paying stupid money for it on Ebay (from a non fan of course...why sell it otherwise?) I was never going to be in a position of buying it. I am a fan and I support the band as much as I can so why not?

Same with you and the TV shows you download. If they are not readily available in this country then I see no problem with downloading them personally. You are a fan and will buy the DVDs anyway.

Tv is slightly different anyway. Unless the product gets released on DVD etc then you are not effecting the money that the artist gets.

Buying FM is as easy as just going the shop and getting it. And it will effect the companys money making ability.

I do see where Simon is coming from though. I bought 3 versions of FM on the bounce and barely touched any of them. I got my last version as a gift and fell in love with it again. If I hadnt been given it as a gift I may have been tempted to download it and give it a go with all intentions of then buying a legit copy. But lets face it, I wouldnt have.

[Melv]

I'll admit to downloading FM2005 but if I had the spare cash to buy it then, I would have. I've bought the rest since then.

[Grimario]

So, let's get this thread back on track.

Who has the game? My pre-order didn't arrive on Friday, so expecting it in the mail on Monday or Tuesday :fingersx:

[BBF]

I got it yesterday. I love it. The new little features really improve it to me.

[Beefy]

Doubt I'll get it any time soon as it'll mean stopping playing my Southend FM08 game. I'm too emotionally invested now.

Plus FM games are generally not worth getting out of the box due to the thousands of bugs which aren't revealed until release. Usually I'd wait until the first big patch.

[turdpower]

How far are you into your Southend 08 game? Surely you'll be due a crash soon if you've played it alot.

[Grimario]

Doubt I'll get it any time soon as it'll mean stopping playing my Southend FM08 game. I'm too emotionally invested now.

Plus FM games are generally not worth getting out of the box due to the thousands of bugs which aren't revealed until release. Usually I'd wait until the first big patch.

I am strangely optimistic about the whole bug thing this time out. Mostly because there are no MASSIVE changes this time around, apart from the tactics creator thingie, which has already been well and truly bug tested from its use in FM Live!.

Of course, they do have an unfortunate track record of being horribly bug ridden, so who knows :dunno:

[Beefy]

There will always be bugs because it's a very complex game and no matter how much playtesting they do it's nothing compared to how much it's played when it's been released and is being played by millions of people.



How far are you into your Southend 08 game? Surely you'll be due a crash soon if you've played it alot.

I think I'm in my tenth season. As soon as it starts going wrong I'll upgrade but I'm third favourites for the title this year so I've got to play that through.

[Grimario]

Oh, not arguing that there won't be bugs.... just optimistic that there will be no massive show stopper bugs :fingersx:

[Torn]

I've had it a few days. Already blitzed through a season and a half with Brentford. I have no money but oh well, only problem was how I could only offer fuck all money when I was trying to renew contracts.. but the money my players wanted would have cut their pay in half, bit weird. Sorted it by getting my wage budget down by loaning out/selling so I could renew though.

PRIJOVIC from Derby who is actually amazing and has basically scored a goal a game and Febian Brandy who I signed on a free have got me challenging for the playoffs after finishing 19th in my first season.

[Alf]

Those who do have it... are there any stupid bugs?

They always seem to fuck up the shooting (100 shots, no goals) and the defending (terrible closing down) before the third patch. Anything shit like that?

[Lazurus]

Mine was shipped on Thursday but I still don't have it.

Went to the shops today and saw it on a shelf laughing at me.

:(

[Melv]

Those who do have it... are there any stupid bugs?

They always seem to fuck up the shooting (100 shots, no goals) and the defending (terrible closing down) before the third patch. Anything shit like that?
I don't think they've changed the match engine much, just the tactics, so there shouldn't be any of those bugs.

Plus the tactics thing is from FM Live, so that shouldn't have any problems either.

[Alf]

What's so different this year then? Why should I buy it Melv?

[turdpower]

Yeah, if everything is the same as previous games, WHY UPGRADE?

[Torn]

What's so different this year then? Why should I buy it Melv?

For starters I'm sure you were one of the main people who were saying how shit the tactics were, well now they are great. I never use the sliders anymore because I just don't need them, I can set the player roles to exactly what I want easily without them. It's basically made the game playable again for me.

[Simon]

Alf if you don't think it's gonna be worth the money just download it, problem solved.

[Alf]

For starters I'm sure you were one of the main people who were saying how shit the tactics were, well now they are great. I never use the sliders anymore because I just don't need them, I can set the player roles to exactly what I want easily without them. It's basically made the game playable again for me.

Anything else? That's pretty decent but not worth 30 quid really... Any other improvements?

[turdpower]

I hope the media ask different/relevant questions.

[RFF Champ]

I always find the updated stats and fresh emerging young players to find as somewhat of an incentive to buy the new game. I'm going to ask for it at Christmas, I think cos I can't justify spending £30 on it at the moment yet I can't spend a year without it :$

[BBF]

I hope the media ask different/relevant questions.

The questions are different and definitely more relevant.

For example, if you sign a player for a large sum of money the press will ask you if the fee will bring added pressure to the player or if the player doesn't speak English they'll ask if you think the language barrier will be a problem and who in your squad will you use to communicate with the player you just bought.

[Melv]

I always find the updated stats and fresh emerging young players to find as somewhat of an incentive to buy the new game. I'm going to ask for it at Christmas, I think cos I can't justify spending £30 on it at the moment yet I can't spend a year without it :$
Yeah, there's only so many games you can play before Madrid signing Vagner Love becomes boring.

[RFF Champ]

He always went to Man City in my games.

[turdpower]

Yeah, me too.

[DavidUK]

Same here. Every single time.

[Melv]

Interesting. Veloso always went to Villa on mine.

[Torn]

I always find the updated stats and fresh emerging young players to find as somewhat of an incentive to buy the new game.

Same here :yes:

[RFF Champ]

Uncovering the new Stancu is what this game is all about.

[Alf]

Got the demo... I like the new tactics thing. You can tell them to cut inside at long bloody last. They've also added the options for loans in the preferences. Aces.

Apart from that though it's the same old game. Not sure I'm that bothered about it to be honest. I found myself bored already... just clicking loads of screens...

Not sure I like the new layout. It's bloody confusing.

[Melv]

The new layout is great, it just takes some getting used to. As far as the game goes, there's not a great deal they can do to improve on it, which is saying a lot about where they've come with the game.

[Grimario]

It's been a while since I played the demo, so can't really comment on the menu's......

What more could they do to improve the game for you, Alfredo?

I think the next few years will see some pretty significant improvements in the 3d engine, but I am not sure what more I would want. The loan options thing is something that should have been in there all along, better tactics (whoooooo to cutting inside!) is something as well that everyone has been screaming for for a long time.... and apart from that, the only other things I can think of are people begging for an owner/manager mode that includes all the stuff that you have in FIFA manager (stadium building/expansion/naming rigts, negotiating sponsorship etc), starting life off as a coach (that would be fun... :wtf:) before moving up into assistant manager then manager or player/manager modes.... and I honestly don't see them being viable while still being the most hard core, authentic football management game out there :dunno:.

[Melv]

It's been a while since I played the demo, so can't really comment on the menu's......

What more could they do to improve the game for you, Alfredo?

I think the next few years will see some pretty significant improvements in the 3d engine, but I am not sure what more I would want. The loan options thing is something that should have been in there all along, better tactics (whoooooo to cutting inside!) is something as well that everyone has been screaming for for a long time.... and apart from that, the only other things I can think of are people begging for an owner/manager mode that includes all the stuff that you have in FIFA manager (stadium building/expansion/naming rigts, negotiating sponsorship etc), starting life off as a coach (that would be fun... :wtf:) before moving up into assistant manager then manager or player/manager modes.... and I honestly don't see them being viable while still being the most hard core, authentic football management game out there :dunno:.
EXACTLY my thoughts, Grim.

That said, I would bloody love to be able to build my own stadium. Maybe have some sort of realism to it that only allows you input when you reach the same level that got a stadium named after you in older versions.

[Hlebsfall]

I'm not sure, you start going down that road, and it ends up as a micromanagement game, where you end up deciding how much salt to put on the chips. BOORRINGG.

[Alf]

It's been a while since I played the demo, so can't really comment on the menu's......

What more could they do to improve the game for you, Alfredo?

Cut down on the sheer weight of screens you have to wade through to get anywhere, and make it so that the interface is intuitive. At the moment you have to move your mouse all over the screen and click 15 times to get anywhere (I am aware of the shortcut keys, but this is about design, the gui is poorly designed).

Improve the media/squad interaction, or at least make it viable to use your assman.

...make it so the people in the crowd aren't twice the size of the players on the pitch... seriously, it's like Land Of The Giants.

Training still needs improving. As does the mental coach bullshit. So now I have to have a maths degree to figure out who the best coach for each area is. Yes, they have the star system... but it doesn't work.


I think the next few years will see some pretty significant improvements in the 3d engine, but I am not sure what more I would want. The loan options thing is something that should have been in there all along, better tactics (whoooooo to cutting inside!) is something as well that everyone has been screaming for for a long time.... and apart from that, the only other things I can think of are people begging for an owner/manager mode that includes all the stuff that you have in FIFA manager (stadium building/expansion/naming rigts, negotiating sponsorship etc), starting life off as a coach (that would be fun... :wtf:) before moving up into assistant manager then manager or player/manager modes.... and I honestly don't see them being viable while still being the most hard core, authentic football management game out there :dunno:.


EXACTLY my thoughts, Grim.

That said, I would bloody love to be able to build my own stadium. Maybe have some sort of realism to it that only allows you input when you reach the same level that got a stadium named after you in older versions.

Then it wouldn't be football manager. It'd be football director/board member/marketing/merchandising department/coach and manager.

[turdpower]

I reckon your players might be a bit shit if you just feed them chips.

[son_of_foley]

I think the GUI is quite standard at the minute. They could possibly make it adaptive so that your most commonly used features were available on a dashboard or something. Maybe just having a dashboard menu in general rather than drop down menus might speed it up someway.

Training is weird. Having people on their own training system is a bit silly. I might like it to have it broken down into time periods.

So on a monday you work on fitness in the morning. Maybe talk to the players about the last game and what you want to improve that way. Then have some practice games which you could watch if you wanted to try out some systems or whatever (not mandatory at all)

If you're scouting a player maybe you should be able to see some highlights of them from recent games. Or just watch them throughout a game and see mistakes etc they make?

I think the main thing should be allowing someone to pick up and play if they want. It takes a few hours before you can comfortably play friendlies.

You have to trim a squad, set up a scouting network, set up training, check out the squad depth make some preliminary searches, hire new staff etc. If I have a brilliant Assistant Mananger he should be able to set up individual training programmes for me if I desire, I dont I like doing it myself but some will like it.

[Grimario]

Training is weird. Having people on their own training system is a bit silly. I might like it to have it broken down into time periods.

So on a monday you work on fitness in the morning. Maybe talk to the players about the last game and what you want to improve that way. Then have some practice games which you could watch if you wanted to try out some systems or whatever (not mandatory at all)
I am sure one of the FIFA manager games had what I thought to be the best training set up in any of the games I have played. The only thing that ruined it was how ridiculous fatigue played a part in things, how hard it was to un-fatigue players and how easy people found it to be to cheat. It was made up of 20-30 drills that you would actually do if you were coaching with the usual categories you see in a football management game (fitness, technique, attack, tactics etc...). I guess it was maybe a bit too micromanage-y for some, but that level of depth was excellent for me. And if it was too much for people, there was (and could be...) the usual "Let Ass Man take care of training" option. :dunno:


If you're scouting a player maybe you should be able to see some highlights of them from recent games. Or just watch them throughout a game and see mistakes etc they make?
Doesn't the game currently provide you a link to "scouted match" when you scout a player? :chin: Maybe that's scouting opponents :chin:

Either way, its a good idea. Perhaps scouting can do with a major overhaul as well. I would like to be able to send my scout out (wherever he may roam) with a specific criteria - "pacy fullbacks who can dribble and cross" instead of just adding that as a filter option from the list that gets returned. I want it to be his sole focus, not giving me names of midfielders and strikers I am not (and won't ever be) interested in.


I think the main thing should be allowing someone to pick up and play if they want. It takes a few hours before you can comfortably play friendlies.

You have to trim a squad, set up a scouting network, set up training, check out the squad depth make some preliminary searches, hire new staff etc. If I have a brilliant Assistant Mananger he should be able to set up individual training programmes for me if I desire, I dont I like doing it myself but some will like it.
It is there for you to pick up and play. You don't have to make any purchases or sales, you can leave everyone in default training and as far as I am aware, all scouts already start with a scouting assignment. You only do all the extra stuff because you know it is better for the squad.... and if every team was set up so that it could GO from the moment you loaded it.... well, that would make it very un-football manager.

It isn't a casual friendly game and it isn't designed to be... and that is pretty much why we all love it and can probably count to MONTHS (if not years :ashamed:) in time spent on FM and CM before it :yes:

[Fanny Batter]

I'm not sure, you start going down that road, and it ends up as a micromanagement game, where you end up deciding how much salt to put on the chips. BOORRINGG.

That was on ULTIMATE SOCCER MANAGER wasn't it? How much do you want the burgers to be, how large to make the cokes and what to have on the advertising boards. Did have bunging though so it was pretty good.

[son_of_foley]

I enjoy it the way it is but I know a few people who find it heavy going to get started these days. That and the press conferences etc put some off.

One thing I would like is if your assistant manager when rating your squad would sometimes say you have no pace or you have no real height at CB you're going to be susceptible at set-pieces. Not because I need it but I think it's a genuinely realistic thing or just even we're not scoring from set-pieces often enough maybe you should think about changing things up

[son_of_foley]

Maybe that sort of thing should be available when you get better assistant manager or if in game settings you ask for more assistance. I just get a bit annoyed when he rates a line-up as our best and I'm looking at it and saying NO NO NO YOU IDIOT FACE if he at least told me why he was favouring a partnership I would be more willing to try his ideas out

[turdpower]

Perhaps your ASSMAN should also make suggestions during games too. "I SAY BOSS, WE'RE 1-0 DOWN WITH 10 MINUTES TO GO, PERHAPS WE SHOULD SLAP ANOTHER STRIKER ON"

[Torn]

I enjoy it the way it is but I know a few people who find it heavy going to get started these days. That and the press conferences etc put some off.

One thing I would like is if your assistant manager when rating your squad would sometimes say you have no pace or you have no real height at CB you're going to be susceptible at set-pieces. Not because I need it but I think it's a genuinely realistic thing or just even we're not scoring from set-pieces often enough maybe you should think about changing things up

There's the new STAFF MEETINGS that have loads of comments like that.

[Alf]

Either way, its a good idea. Perhaps scouting can do with a major overhaul as well. I would like to be able to send my scout out (wherever he may roam) with a specific criteria - "pacy fullbacks who can dribble and cross" instead of just adding that as a filter option from the list that gets returned. I want it to be his sole focus, not giving me names of midfielders and strikers I am not (and won't ever be) interested in.


Can't you already specify what you want with the filters?

I.e You'd set the position as defender left or right. Crossing 15, dribbling 15. etc etc.

[son_of_foley]

There's the new STAFF MEETINGS that have loads of comments like that.

Excellent. Not a major thing and I don't want the assistant manager to do everything for me but sometimes when it comes to partnerships I don't get why he picks a certain front 2. I often think stats-wise the two I've picked are far more compatible with my side

[Torn]

Ok so I draw FULHAM in the League Cup, the twats. Then this happens.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2rgnnuv.png

YEEES! FUCK YOU FULHAM.

So then I go to the news screen

http://i35.tinypic.com/2h2god1.png

WHAAAATTTTTTTT :wtf: Ridiculous. I am holidaying this fucking match until I win now as this is stupid.

[Torn]

http://i35.tinypic.com/29ej91j.png

That's better. Fuck you, FOOTBALL MANAGER for stealing my wins.

[BBF]

There was a bug like that a few years ago. More often than not if you won on penalties the news screen said you lost. I remember almost chucking my pc out of the window when it happened in the Champions League Final and I had to go back three months :(

Regular save points FTW.

[Torn]

I save before every match now after the game crashed mid match in my first season and I had to replay a few matches.

[turdpower]

If you're on a bad run sometimes going back a few months can be helpful :happysad:

[Torn]

To be fair I think I did come out with better results than I before :D

[Alf]

I think it was 2006 that used to crash on me all the time so I got used to saving before every match.

[Grimario]

That was on ULTIMATE SOCCER MANAGER wasn't it? How much do you want the burgers to be, how large to make the cokes and what to have on the advertising boards. Did have bunging though so it was pretty good.
Ahaha, yus! How much salt you put on chips (more salt = thirstier! too much salt = tastes bad!) and how much ice you put in your soft drinks (cold = good! too cold = too watery + loss of flavour!)..... is that the one where you could bribe match officials and bet on games?


I enjoy it the way it is but I know a few people who find it heavy going to get started these days. That and the press conferences etc put some off.

One thing I would like is if your assistant manager when rating your squad would sometimes say you have no pace or you have no real height at CB you're going to be susceptible at set-pieces. Not because I need it but I think it's a genuinely realistic thing or just even we're not scoring from set-pieces often enough maybe you should think about changing things up
As Torn has said, they have a staff meeting thingie now. When you first start, your ass man pulls you aside and tells you how you rate in terms of height, age, dribbling, determination etc in regards to the rest of the league and you get the same thing before each match - "Ass Man Joe Bloggs thinks we have a significant height advantage over opponent and should use this to our advantage"... also gives you information about the tactics they play and what tactics work well against them :yes: New staff meetings = tops.


Can't you already specify what you want with the filters?

I.e You'd set the position as defender left or right. Crossing 15, dribbling 15. etc etc.

You can, yeah... but I don't think you can set it as the scouting criteria, only a filter on whatever players the scout ends up finding. I want to be able to send them out with the only players they are scouting being those that meet my criteria.

[Grimario]

I save before every match now after the game crashed mid match in my first season and I had to replay a few matches.

I had a crash like that once with one of the Rajah games. Luckily that is saved at least once a week in game :yes:

Sucks when it happens to a game you are really getting in to though and everything falls apart. In 05 or 06, I had a game that I hadn't saved in about 6 months of play time and was holding onto a mid table spot with some relegation battler in Serie B... and after the crash and reload, I couldn't emulate any of the results and got sacked after 4 months. Stupid game :(

[Melv]

What I'd quite like to do is be able to decide what position my youth players play in when they're introduced to the team. I quite often have a centre midfielder that has high finishing, accelleration and pace stats yet I have to use up 10% of his training time for his whole career if I want him to be a striker as if I take the position training off, he somehow loses the ability to play there. Ridiculous.

[Grimario]

Do you mean that the players arrive at the club essentially with no preferred positions? And depending on how you play them and train them, it develops then?

That's a bit much considering you get them as 15-16 and in the real world they will already be a "natural" at some position by the time they join a professional teams youth set up....

[Melv]

Do you mean that the players arrive at the club essentially with no preferred positions? And depending on how you play them and train them, it develops then?

That's a bit much considering you get them as 15-16 and in the real world they will already be a "natural" at some position by the time they join a professional teams youth set up....
Yeah, or at least be able to set a position to train them up in until they're 18? Then whatever level they're at in that position would be permanent.

[Grimario]

Can't you do that by adjusting their positional training? :dunno:

[Melv]

Can't you do that by adjusting their positional training? :dunno:
Yes but it takes up 10% of their overall training, meaning their stats suffer in the long run.

[Grimario]

I'm not buying that.... surely training only molds their attributes, CA/PA developed from match experience and age is what really defines them?

And surely versatility (or is it adaptability?) is just as important when it comes to retraining a position... if they aren't versatile, trying to make them play as a striker long term isn't going to work too well as you will have to keep that positional training up forever....


I think a good compromise would be that if you train someone up in a new position AND they play in that position, they don't need to continue the positional training to maintain their ability to play in that role. That would make sense because match experience > training for just about everything.

[Melv]

I'm not buying that.... surely training only molds their attributes, CA/PA developed from match experience and age is what really defines them?

And surely versatility (or is it adaptability?) is just as important when it comes to retraining a position... if they aren't versatile, trying to make them play as a striker long term isn't going to work too well as you will have to keep that positional training up forever....


I think a good compromise would be that if you train someone up in a new position AND they play in that position, they don't need to continue the positional training to maintain their ability to play in that role. That would make sense because match experience > training for just about everything.
Training obviously has a big impact, and it says IN-GAME that it uses 10% of training workload to re-train them.

Therefore if you want to keep the player at that position, you're going to have to sacrifice 10% of training for the rest of the time you want them to play there.

[Alf]

So, I've been playing a bit more of the demo, and while I do thing there aren't enough changes to warrant a full price... I will be buying it...

Has anyone found any gems yet>

[Melv]

So, I've been playing a bit more of the demo, and while I do thing there aren't enough changes to warrant a full price... I will be buying it...

Has anyone found any gems yet>
WHY DONT YOU FIND THEM YOURSELF AND STOP MAKING THE GAME BORING ALF

[Hlebsfall]

OOF, fucking have some of that Alf.

[Alf]

WHY DONT YOU FIND THEM YOURSELF AND STOP MAKING THE GAME BORING ALF

Don't make me tell everyone about what happened last Tuesday.

[Hlebsfall]

Anyone else play this windowed? All the fucking confirm buttons go below the taskbar in windows, WHAT CAN I DO.

[Hlebsfall]

It's OK, I've done it. Put the old small screen windowed thing in the shortcut.

[Alf]

What's that again? I prefer to play windowed.

So, I bought it...

So far so good. Only played one friendly. Trying to figure out who to buy. I've scouted a couple of youngsters...

Man City bid 20m for Gio.

[Grimario]

Is that the -small_screen one or whate'er it was? I prefer to play windowed as well, usually good value processing in the background whilst chatting with turdy/melv/mikey jones (and many more) on MSN on a saturday night/sunday morning when I am up till ungodly hours playing it while watching the football :yes:

[Hlebsfall]

You can change it in the preferences to windowed, but like I said, that dropped the bottom of the game below the windows taskbar so you couldn't click on confirm.

So, create a shortcut on the desktop, right click, properties, and at the end of the target line, put -windowed -small_screen

[BBF]

Windowed for the win. Allows you to do other things at the same time and saves a little bit of memory. Its looks better to me aswell.

[Alf]

On the squad screen you can now customise it and add all sorts of info... you can even show the 'points won per game' which I think totals up how many points they've won with winning goals, assists, goal line clearance etc etc I could be wrong though... interesting...

[Lazurus]

Surely points won per game would be the average points a team has got when that player was playing.

So if a player played in two matches, a win and a draw, he'd have 2 PWPG.

That's what it sounds like to me anyway.

[Alf]

...oh yeah...

[Melv]

On the squad screen you can now customise it and add all sorts of info... you can even show the 'points won per game' which I think totals up how many points they've won with winning goals, assists, goal line clearance etc etc I could be wrong though... interesting...

I love that new feature.

shots on target ratio, pass ratio etc all on one screen. Lovely.

[Alf]

Coaches, coaches, coaches. What the fuck have they done to coaches.

It's impossible to figure out how to get a good coach. What the fuck.

Has anyone signed any good ones?

I found this on thedugout...

http://www.thedugout.net/community/showthread.php?t=61551

Seems like a lot of effort to find a coach.

[Melv]

I found it strange in 09 that when you signed a coach, they were rated in stars, but before you signed them you had no idea how good they were unless you had a degree in mathematics. Why couldn't they just have shown the star ratings in the staff search?

[Lazurus]

Coaches, coaches, coaches. What the fuck have they done to coaches.

It's impossible to figure out how to get a good coach. What the fuck.

Has anyone signed any good ones?

I found this on thedugout...

http://www.thedugout.net/community/showthread.php?t=61551

Seems like a lot of effort to find a coach.

Looks like cheating to me.

It's cheating isn't it?

I bet Melv uses it.

[Alf]

I found it strange in 09 that when you signed a coach, they were rated in stars, but before you signed them you had no idea how good they were unless you had a degree in mathematics. Why couldn't they just have shown the star ratings in the staff search?

Can you see their star rating before you sign them now? I couldn't find it...

Now more stats are considered, and the ratios are different for each stat (as detailed in the dugout post) so now you need a masters...

[Simon]

I found it strange in 09 that when you signed a coach, they were rated in stars, but before you signed them you had no idea how good they were unless you had a degree in mathematics. Why couldn't they just have shown the star ratings in the staff search?

Why don't you just sellotape stars where you'd like them to be? And if it turns out you have signed crap coaches and are dropping down the league, simply sellotape a home-made league table of your choosing over the top of the real one.

[Lazurus]

Why not just not bother playing it but tell yourself you won everything there was to win?

[Winkle van Tinkle]

IS TU MADERIA STILL GOOD?

[Melv]

Why don't you just sellotape stars where you'd like them to be? And if it turns out you have signed crap coaches and are dropping down the league, simply sellotape a home-made league table of your choosing over the top of the real one.
I bet you cover up the screen whenever you click on a player's name just in case you see what stats they have.