PDA

View Full Version : Total Top Ten (Party) Time.



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 5:12 PM
Yes. I would like people to post their top tens for the following categories..

Top 10 Overall Perfomers in WWE
Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork
Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE
Top 10 Most Entertaining Wrestlers in the ring... in WWE
Top 10 Big Men in WWE

Note that this is not a list of your personal favourites. You may despise JBL, for example, but rate hm highly as an in-ring performer.


-EDIT- Added a category.

Monty
November 21st, 2005, 5:22 PM
Is this right now, or of all time?

ANT
November 21st, 2005, 5:22 PM
Pasted from the other thread. I'll do the others later on

ANT's Top Ten overall performers.

1. HBK
2. Angle
3. Benoit
4. JBL
5. Undertaker
6. Edge
7. Flair
8. London
9. Cena
10.Chavo

Jericho would be top 3 if he were active. Eddie would have been as well. :(

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 5:23 PM
Right now.

Hacksaw
November 21st, 2005, 5:25 PM
See, it's hard to rate overall performers, as it takes in subjective measures into account.

I say that we make this a simple LIST thread, where people can list their top 10's for anything they want, whether it be mic work, physiques, selling ability, haircuts. Sorta like the lists thread they have over in the listening room.

Anyway, this is the first list I've done since Eddies death, and it certainly feels naked without him on there. :(

Top Ten Wrestlers based on ringwork:
1. Chris Benoit
2. Paul London
3. William Regal
4. Chavo Guerrero
5. Val Venis
6. Nunzio
7. Tajiri
8. Bradshaw
9. Kendrick
10. Michaels

I'm not considering Punk or Noble as part of the roster until they debut. Both would be in the top 7 or so. I may have forgotten someone. If I did, point and laugh.

Second City Saint
November 21st, 2005, 5:30 PM
Top 10 Overall Perfomers in WWE
1.HBK
2.Angle
3.HHH
4.Benoit
5.Booker T
6.Undertaker
7.RVD
8.William Regal
9.Edge
10.Ric Flair

Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork
1.HBK
2.Angle
3.Benoit
4.Rey Mysterio
5.HHH
6.Shelton Benjamin
7.Booker T
8.William Regal
9.Paul London
10.Edge

Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE
1.HBK
2.Angle
3.Cena
4.Ric Flair
5.Kennedy
6.JBL
7.HHH
8.RVD
9.Brian Kendrick
10.Edge

Top 10 Most Entertaining Wrestlers in the ring... in WWE
1.Angle
2.HBK
3.Rey Mysterio
4.RVD
5.Benoit
6.Undertaker
7.Paul London
8.Cena (not my choice but the crowd pops for the man)
9.Edge
10.Matt Hardy




I just want to throw it out there that I just assembled this list quickly and I probably made some questionable descisions

TapOut
November 21st, 2005, 5:30 PM
Yes. I would like people to post their top tens for the following categories..

Top 10 Overall Perfomers in WWE
Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork
Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE
Top 10 Most Entertaining Wrestlers in the ring... in WWE

Note that this is not a list of your personal favourites. You may despise JBL, for example, but rate hm highly as an in-ring performer.




I'm going to do this list sans Eddie G...

Overall Performers:

10. Booker T
09. Big Show
08. Chris Benoit
07. The Undertaker
06. JBL
05. Kane
04. John Cena
03. Triple H
02. HBK
01. Kurt Angle

Top Ten Wrestlers based solely on ring work:

10. Ric Flair
09. John Cena
08. Edge
07. Rey Mysterio
06. Triple H
05. Shelton Benjamin
04. Chris Jericho
03. Chris Benoit
02. HBK
01. Kurt Angle

Top Ten Mic Workers:

10. Chris Benoit
09. Kane
08. Chris Jericho
07. Triple H
06. JBL
05. John Cena
04. Edge
03. HBK
02. Kurt Angle
01. Ric Flair (Hey, when he talks, I always listen.. and I always like what I hear).

Most Entertaining In The Ring:

10. Triple H
09. Big Show
08. Kane
07. Ric Flair
06. John Cena
05. Paul London
04. Chris Jericho
03. Chris Benoit
02. HBK
01. Kurt Angle

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 5:34 PM
I say that we make this a simple LIST thread, Sorta like the lists thread they have over in the listening room.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.. I was going to post a bunch of new categories for people to do after this set had been done to death, but you're right, we should just let people post whatever Top Ten they like.. :yes:

Agree, pretty much with your list. I may have had Juventud in there somewhere, but on that that, :yes:

Brian M.
November 21st, 2005, 5:34 PM
Overall:

1. Shawn Michaels
2. Chris Benoit
3. Kurt Angle
4. JBL
5. Brian Kendrick
6. Edge
7. John Cena
8. Undertaker
9. Ric Flair
10. William Regal

Ringwork:

1. Chris Benoit
2. Shawn Michaels
3. Tajiri
4. William Regal
5. Edge
6. Paul London
7. Super Crazy
8. Kurt Angle
9. JBL
10. John Cena

Mic Work:

1. JBL
2. Shawn Michaels
3. John Cena
4. Kurt Angle
5. Edge
6. Ken Kennedy
7. William Regal
8. Ric Flair
9. Batista
10. Kane

Cactus Lem
November 21st, 2005, 5:36 PM
I'll write up a proper evaluation when I'm not so bogged down with re-adding everything to my ipod (3000 songs wiped for no reson at all).

Right top 10 performers right now

1.Benoit
2.Angle
3.HBK
4.Edge
5.London
6.Rey Mysterio
7.Chavo Gurrero
8.John Cena
9.Matt Hardy
10.JBL

The ring work list will probably be a lot different, and I'll give proper explinations......

Hacksaw
November 21st, 2005, 5:36 PM
Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE
1.HBK
2.Angle
3.Cena
4.Ric Flair
5.Kennedy
6.JBL
7.HHH
8.RVD
9.Brian Kendrick
10.Edge


RVD? 8th best mic worker in the company??

Please explain.

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 5:38 PM
Mic Work:
1. JBL
2. Shawn Michaels
3. John Cena
4. Kurt Angle
5. Edge
6. Ken Kennedy
7. William Regal
8. Ric Flair
9. Batista
10. Kane

:yes:

I don't know about Tista, and Flair would be higher for me. Other than that, though.. brilliant list.

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 5:39 PM
I'll write up a proper evaluation when I'm not so bogged down with re-adding everything to my ipod (3000 songs wiped for no reson at all).

Right top 10 performers right now

1.Benoit
2.Angle
3.HBK
4.Edge
5.London
6.Rey Mysterio
7.Chavo Gurrero
8.John Cena
9.Matt Hardy
10.JBL

The ring work list will probably be a lot different, and I'll give proper explinations......

Chavo, London and Rey higher than Cena and JBL? Please explain.

All 3 are good to great in the ring, but all 3 lack at most other things..

ANT
November 21st, 2005, 5:40 PM
Top ten based on Mic skills.

1. JBL
2. Cena
3. Angle
4. HBK
5. Flair
6. Edge
7. Kennedy
8. Morely
9. Regal
10. Kane

Brian M.
November 21st, 2005, 5:40 PM
Yeah, I know most people don't enjoy Batista's mic work, but I enjoy his sarcasm and his ability to switch from comedy to intensity in the blink of an eye.

Cactus Lem
November 21st, 2005, 5:40 PM
My lists would be so different if we still had The Rock, Foley, Austin, Jericho, Christian and Eddie.

Hacksaw
November 21st, 2005, 5:41 PM
My lists would be so different if we still had The Rock, Foley, Austin, Jericho, Christian and Eddie.

Heh, ya think? ;)

Hacksaw
November 21st, 2005, 5:43 PM
I personally find HBK's mic skills hit or miss. I'd put him in the top 10, but probably not in the top 5. He was fantastic as the self-indulgent prick character in the mid 90's, but I find his mic work since his return to be good, but not great.

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 5:43 PM
Yeah, I know most people don't enjoy Batista's mic work, but I enjoy his sarcasm and his ability to switch from comedy to intensity in the blink of an eye.

Heh, I've certainly enjoyed his mic work a lot more lately. I just don't know whether he's done enough to surpass the likes of Morley and Steven Richards.

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 5:44 PM
I personally find HBK's mic skills hit or miss. I'd put him in the top 10, but probably not in the top 5. He was fantastic as the self-indulgent prick character in the mid 90's, but I find his mic work since his return to be good, but not great.

What about his heel run from earlier this year? A number of promos stick out as being very good.

AudioDynamite
November 21st, 2005, 5:45 PM
Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork
------------------------------------------
10. Kane
9. JBL
8. Batista
7. Flair
6. Orton
5. HHH
4. Edge
3. HBK
2. Angle
1. Benoit

Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE
---------------------------
10. Big Show
9. Kane
8. Orton
7. Benoit
6. Batista
5. Edge
4. Cena
3. Angle
2. Flair
1. HBK

ANT
November 21st, 2005, 5:46 PM
ABA Taker would have probably been in my top 10 mic skills list.

Hacksaw
November 21st, 2005, 5:46 PM
The one the week after he turned heel was overrated. Went on for too long, and was repetitive.

The one where he dressed up as Hogan was brilliant.

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 5:47 PM
The one in Montreal was an absolute classic.

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 5:47 PM
ABA Taker would have probably been in my top 10 mic skills list.

:yes:

I was just about to bring that up..

Mantaur
November 21st, 2005, 5:47 PM
He was also great in Montreal. Not that he would have trouble drawing heat there, but it was great.

I really don't understand the love for his mic work as a face though. Seems rather bland to me.

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 5:48 PM
Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork
------------------------------------------
10. Kane
9. JBL
8. Batista
7. Flair
6. Orton
5. HHH
4. Edge
3. HBK
2. Angle
1. Benoit


Kane, Batista and HHH over London, Chavo, Morley, Tajiri, Nunzio, Juve etc?

Please explain.

Monty
November 21st, 2005, 5:49 PM
Top Ten Performers:
1. Angle
2. Edge
3. Chris Benoit
4. HBK
5. John Cena
6. JBL
7. Triple H
8. Kane
9. Blundertaker, Bikertaker, Cowboytaker
10. Flair

Top Ten in Ringwork:
1. Benoit
2. Angle
3. HBK
4. Rey Mysterio
5. Edge
6. Eugene (he's capable)
7. Triple H
8. Shelton Benjamin
9. Paul London
10. Randy Orton

Top Ten Mic Skillz (with a "z", not an "s"):
1. Angle
2. Edge
3. Cena
4. Kane
5. Flair
6. HBK
7. JBL
8. Triple H
9. Daivari
10. Mr. Kennedy

Top Ten Most Entertaining...in the ring:
1. Angle
2. Benoit
3. Edge
4. Rey Mysterio
5. JBL
6. HBK
7. Triple H
8. Kane
9. Flair
10. Trish

Top ten big men:
1. Kane
2. Big Slow
3. Bikertaker
4. Tomko?
5. Snitsky?
6. ?????
7. ?????
8. ?????
9. ?????
10. ?????

Brian M.
November 21st, 2005, 5:49 PM
Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork
------------------------------------------
10. Kane
8. Batista
6. Orton
5. HHH



Eh, that seems a little off to me. Care to explain?

EDIT: Alright, Ringmaster got to it before me. But still, explain.

Hacksaw
November 21st, 2005, 5:49 PM
Which one was in Montreal?

It's also possible I missed a couple, as was away quite a bit this summer, and I usually only catch the second hour of Raw these days, and download stuff I miss on peoples recommendations.

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 5:51 PM
Which one was in Montreal?

It's also possible I missed a couple, as was away quite a bit this summer, and I usually only catch the second hour of Raw these days, and download stuff I miss on peoples recommendations.

That was when he teased the Bret return and Hogan appearance. Obviously it's not hard for him to get heat there, but he was bloody hilarious.

Brian M.
November 21st, 2005, 5:51 PM
The one in Montreal was the one where Hart's music hit like halfway through and Michaels started falling on the ground laughing when he didn't come out.

He also sang "Oh Canada, how I hate this place...Oh Canada, I'm going to kick Hulk Hogan right in the face..."

Classic.

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 5:54 PM
Yes. Brian M.'s explanation did it far better justice than mine.

Hacksaw
November 21st, 2005, 5:55 PM
Top 10 Sellers

1. Benoit
2. Edge
3. Val Venis
4. Orton
5. Chavo
6. Regal
7. Dupree
8. London when he isn't overselling
9. Nunziio
10. Bradshaw

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 5:57 PM
Top 10 Sellers

1. Benoit
2. Edge
3. Val Venis
4. Orton
5. Chavo
6. Regal
7. Dupree
8. London when he isn't overselling
9. Nunziio
10. Bradshaw

Helms?

Dare I say it.. Trips?

Second City Saint
November 21st, 2005, 5:57 PM
RVD? 8th best mic worker in the company??

Please explain.

I was thinking more of his ECW stuff where he cut good promos. plus I didn't really take the time to think it through

Hacksaw
November 21st, 2005, 5:59 PM
The one in Montreal was the one where Hart's music hit like halfway through and Michaels started falling on the ground laughing when he didn't come out.

He also sang "Oh Canada, how I hate this place...Oh Canada, I'm going to kick Hulk Hogan right in the face..."

Classic.

Yep, didn't see it live. Read about it in the reports later on, which probably didn't do it justice. Sounds like good stuff, but I can't really rate something I didn't see.

Even so, two or three really good heel promos surrounded by several mediocred to above average ones probably just validates where I'd put him in the top 10, but not top 5.

AudioDynamite
November 21st, 2005, 6:00 PM
Kane, Batista and HHH over London, Chavo, Morley, Tajiri, Nunzio, Juve etc?

Please explain.

Morley and Chavo are the 2 I could have added.....Nunzio doesn't impress me much, Juvie and London are nothing but high fliers who do circus tricks, and Tajiri, well, he is a martial artist to me only.

spanish announce table
November 21st, 2005, 6:00 PM
Top 10 Overall
1. Angle
2. Michaels
3. HHH
4. Mysterio
5. Benoit
6. Orton
7. Chavo
8. Cena
9. Batista
10. Edge

Top 10 on the mic
1. Angle
2. Flair
3. Michaels
4. HHH
5. JBL
6. Cena
7. Edge
8. Orton
9. Carlito
10. Regal

Top 10 in the Ring
1. Benoit
2. Angle
3. Michaels
4. Mysterio
5. Benjamin
6. HHH
7. Tajiri
8. Chavo
9. Orton
10. Flair

Cactus Lem
November 21st, 2005, 6:01 PM
Chavo, London and Rey higher than Cena and JBL? Please explain.

All 3 are good to great in the ring, but all 3 lack at most other things..

That was a list I made quickly. Chavo is insanley underrated in every department. His mic skills are top 10 if you ask me, some of his stuff with Kerwin was really funny, and he can cut a serious promo as well when the time calls. He's got plenty of charisma, and can adapt to any style of match.

Mysterio makes up for what he's missing on the mic in the ring. People will argue that he relies on spots to much, but when the spots are as recognisable and over as his are, then he's going to use them. The other thing is about Mysterio's signature spots is the fact they haven't got boring, and they always manage to generate a reaction. He's always over, and has never seemed to become stale at any point, which is quite remarkable for a guy who hasn't changed one bit in 4 years. He reminds me of a smaller HBK, Angle type of all around WWE entertainer, and I'm sure Vince considers Rey as one of his top ten as far as overall performance goes.

London has everything. He can work the perfect WWE style 8 minute TV match, and we know from his ROH work that he can work far bigger and longer matche's. He's proved he can get over as well. Just look at the tag team partnership with Kidman, both started to get over really well, and it's rare to see a face tag team taken seriously these days (if not made of two big stars, Show and Kane for example) with a true connection with the fans, something that London along with Kidman established. If the WWE decided to take London seriously and actually let him appear on SD, I'm sure if booked properly he could really get over. The best thing for him right now is a tag team combination with Spanky, but even as a singles star this guy has almost everything.

Hacksaw
November 21st, 2005, 6:01 PM
Helms?

Dare I say it.. Trips?

I was having trouble deciding between Helms and the last two that made it on. He's 11th, if that's any consolation.

Trips often goes for "epic" selling when it's not appropriate. Taking too long to get up in spots where it doesn't really call for it, things like that.

Second City Saint
November 21st, 2005, 6:02 PM
Top 10 Sellers

1. Benoit
2. Edge
3. Val Venis
4. Orton
5. Chavo
6. Regal
7. Dupree
8. London when he isn't overselling
9. Nunziio
10. Bradshaw

Top 5 for me

1.Benoit
2.Cena
3.Flair
4.Regal
5.London

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 6:05 PM
Juvie and London are nothing but high fliers who do circus tricks, .

That's really not the case, though. Watch some old Juve stuff from his WCW days and some of London's ROH stuff.. :yes:

Brian M.
November 21st, 2005, 6:07 PM
Morley and Chavo are the 2 I could have added.....Nunzio doesn't impress me much, Juvie and London are nothing but high fliers who do circus tricks, and Tajiri, well, he is a martial artist to me only.

Wowjustwow.

Have you actually seen any Juvi, London, Nunzio or Tajiri matches?

TapOut
November 21st, 2005, 6:07 PM
Paul LOndon is amazing.

Haven't seen any of his work outside of WWE, but what I've seen I love. And his mic skills.... underated. When he had his feud with Kidman last year, I was expecting him to break out into a decent midcarder. Sadly, WWE dropped the ball.

AudioDynamite
November 21st, 2005, 6:09 PM
That's really not the case, though. Watch some old Juve stuff from his WCW days and some of London's ROH stuff.. :yes:

I saw Juvies wCw stuff, he was good, but I am going by what I see now cuz that's what we were asked to do, London I haven't seen his ROH stuff and as I said I am going on now.

eddymac
November 21st, 2005, 6:10 PM
What is the difference between overall performer and ringwork?

I dont get it.

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 6:10 PM
That was a list I made quickly. Chavo is insanley underrated in every department. His mic skills are top 10 if you ask me, some of his stuff with Kerwin was really funny, and he can cut a serious promo as well when the time calls. He's got plenty of charisma, and can adapt to any style of match.

Mysterio makes up for what he's missing on the mic in the ring. People will argue that he relies on spots to much, but when the spots are as recognisable and over as his are, then he's going to use them. The other thing is about Mysterio's signature spots is the fact they haven't got boring, and they always manage to generate a reaction. He's always over, and has never seemed to become stale at any point, which is quite remarkable for a guy who hasn't changed one bit in 4 years. He reminds me of a smaller HBK, Angle type of all around WWE entertainer, and I'm sure Vince considers Rey as one of his top ten as far as overall performance goes.

London has everything. He can work the perfect WWE style 8 minute TV match, and we know from his ROH work that he can work far bigger and longer matche's. He's proved he can get over as well. Just look at the tag team partnership with Kidman, both started to get over really well, and it's rare to see a face tag team taken seriously these days (if not made of two big stars, Show and Kane for example) with a true connection with the fans, something that London along with Kidman established. If the WWE decided to take London seriously and actually let him appear on SD, I'm sure if booked properly he could really get over. The best thing for him right now is a tag team combination with Spanky, but even as a singles star this guy has almost everything.

Thanks for the full reply. I wasn't doubting that any of those 3 were good overall performers, just that they were above the likes of JBL and Cena. I agree with the point you made about Chavo, and I guess I was too quick to include London in there - He is indeed brilliant.

Can't say I agree about Rey, though.. :p

However, I still don't think I'd put Chavo, and certainly not Rey above Bradshaw as far as all round performing goes..

TapOut
November 21st, 2005, 6:11 PM
What is the difference between overall performer and ringwork?

I dont get it.

Chris Benoit is better in the ring than HBK.

HBK is the better overall performer. He's more entertaining and well-rounded as an entertainer, if you will.

Brian M.
November 21st, 2005, 6:11 PM
What is the difference between overall performer and ringwork?

I dont get it.

All around takes into account ringwork, selling, entertainment factor, mic work...pretty much everything. Where as ringwork is just ringwork. I don't see what's so hard to understand.

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 6:12 PM
What is the difference between overall performer and ringwork?

I dont get it.

Ringwork is simply their in-ring ability. There is much more to being a pro-wrestler than ringwork, though. Factors like mic work, charisma, ability to entertain, ability to get over and portray a character etc. must also be taken into account..

TapOut
November 21st, 2005, 6:13 PM
Top Ten Shitlist:

10. Helms
09. Psicosis
08. Juvi
07. Super Crazy
06. Carlito
05. Chris Masters
04. Nitro
03. Mercury
02. Melina
01. Torrie Wilson

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 6:15 PM
Top Ten Shitlist:

10. Helms

:wtf:


09. Psicosis
08. Juvi
07. Super Crazy

:eek:


06. Carlito

:yesyes:


05. Chris Masters
04. Nitro
03. Mercury
02. Melina

:nono:


01. Torrie Wilson

:beer:

Cactus Lem
November 21st, 2005, 6:17 PM
Can't say I agree about Rey, though.. :p

However, I still don't think I'd put Chavo, and certainly not Rey above Bradshaw as far as all round performing goes..

Thats fair enough. You know how I feel about JBL in the ring though. He's grown on me a lot recently, and I love his mic skills and apearence, he's definetly top 10 as far as overall performance goes, something a year ago that I really didn't think.

I also have to say JBL vs Chavo from Smackdown showed exactly how good both men can be when booked properly. They only got 8 minutes and managed to have a good match, if they got 20 mins plus we'd of had a MOTYC I'm sure.

Ringo
November 21st, 2005, 6:19 PM
I also have to say JBL vs Chavo from Smackdown showed exactly how good both men can be when booked properly. They only got 8 minutes and managed to have a good match, if they got 20 mins plus we'd of had a MOTYC I'm sure.

:yes:

I thought they showed great chemistry too.

TapOut
November 21st, 2005, 6:19 PM
Personally, Ringmaster, I put the Mexicools on there because as low-end midcarders, they're shit. As cruisers or wrestlers who get decent single matches with people like Benoit, Tajiri, London etc., they'll be good. As it stands, they're shit.

Masters and Carlito, I have no hope for.

Cactus Lem
November 21st, 2005, 6:21 PM
:yes:

I thought they showed great chemistry too.

Totally agree. I'm hoping for a long shot, that being interpromotional Chavo vs JBL at Mania. Never gonna happen though.

TapOut
November 21st, 2005, 6:22 PM
Thats fair enough. You know how I feel about JBL in the ring though. He's grown on me a lot recently, and I love his mic skills and apearence, he's definetly top 10 as far as overall performance goes, something a year ago that I really didn't think.

I also have to say JBL vs Chavo from Smackdown showed exactly how good both men can be when booked properly. They only got 8 minutes and managed to have a good match, if they got 20 mins plus we'd of had a MOTYC I'm sure.

I'll never forget how I felt when JBL first came out to challenge Eddie. Like a lot of people, I just kinda did the :wtf: thing.

Now, I'm feeling the same as you. I really opened my eyes to JBL around Survivor Series of 04. His gimmick just started.. .clicking.

I hope he moves back up to the top in time for Mania.

ANT
November 21st, 2005, 6:25 PM
Best Faces.

Of course not all of these guys are faces right now, but these are what I think are the best faces with the current roster.


1. Undertaker (Current)
2. Cena (Current)
3. HBK (Current)
4. Batista (Current)
5. Big Show ( Current)
6. Angle (2001)
7. Rey (Current)
8. Kane (2002)
9. Edge (2002)
10 Bradshaw (2001)


I've probably forgotten some other good faces though.

Hacksaw
November 21st, 2005, 6:26 PM
Kane as a face in mid 2000 or early 2001 was better than his face character in 2002. I HATE sympathetic Kane.

Osi
November 21st, 2005, 6:39 PM
Benoit
London
Tajiri
Nunzio
Morley
Chavo
Regal
Bradshaw
Juvi
Spanky

That's somewhat in order of ringwork I guess. I probably forgot someone major.:dunno:

I haven't actually seen Spanky work in years so he goes at the bottom...that and I don't like Spanky fans.

You know who you are.

ANT
November 21st, 2005, 6:47 PM
Best Heels.

Current Roster still.

1. Flair (90's)
2. HBK (1997)
3. Undertaker (2002)
4. Angle (2002 or 2000)
5. Cena (2003)
6. JBL (current)
7. Kane ( 2003 post-unmasking)
8. HHH (2000)
9. Big Show (2004)
10.Edge (current)

Hacksaw
November 21st, 2005, 6:52 PM
OMG WTF HHH iz da best heel eva!!!!1111

Canucker
November 21st, 2005, 7:19 PM
Overall:

1. Shawn Michaels
2. Chris Benoit
3. Kurt Angle
4. John Cena
5. Triple H
6. Undertaker
7. Edge
8. JBL
9. Rey Mysterio
10. The Big Show

Ringwork:

1. Chris Benoit
2. Kurt Angle
3. Shawn Michaels
4. Rey Mysterio
5. Spanky of course :D
6. Paul London
7. Edge
8. JBL
9. Shelton Benjamin
10. John Cena

Mic Work:

1. Shawn Michaels
2. JBL
3. John Cena
4. Kurt Angle
5. Edge
6. Triple H
7. Ric Flair
8. Ken Kennedy
9. Big Show
10. Chavo

Big Men:

1. Undertaker
2. Big Show
3. Kane
4. Bobby Lashley
5. Snitsky

Not sure after that

Vice
November 21st, 2005, 8:34 PM
I haven't actually seen Spanky work in years so he goes at the bottom...that and I don't like Spanky fans.

You know who you are.
:squint:

I was just about to throw a welcome back party for you, too..

MMH
November 21st, 2005, 9:00 PM
Been a while since I watched WWE barring the Eddie shows so bare with me if some are missing or have left the WWE recently...

Top 10 Overall Perfomers in WWE

Kurt Angle
John Cena
Vince McMahon
Ric Flair
HHH
Chris Benoit
Edge
Trish Stratus
Undertaker
Shawn Michaels

Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork

Chris Benoit
Kurt Angle
Chavo Guerrero
William Regal
Ric Flair
Juventud

Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE

Theadore Long
Vince McMahon
Stevie Richards
JBL
William Regal

Top 10 Most Entertaining Wrestlers in the ring... in WWE

Kurt Angle
Chris Benoit
Randy Orton


Top 10 Big Men in WWE

Undertaker
Vader
Kane
Big Show
Batista

A bugger ill come back to this later....

Slapdash O' Slipshod
November 21st, 2005, 9:24 PM
I'd like to see some kind of "overall total average" and see, who are the top ten guys via poll in the WWE.

That's a lot like homework, though, and in the end, our individual opinions would remain the same. Still, it'd be interesting.

Judging by these lists, it seems that Angle, HBK, and Benoit would fall in the top 3 (right now) with guys like Cena, HHH, JBL, Mysterio, Flair, and Edge falling in the rest of the rankings.

I'd say at a glance, the "Rajah Overall concensus of Overall Performers" would look something like this:

10) Flair
9) Edge
8) Mysterio
7) Undertaker
6) JBL
5) HHH
4) Cena
3) Benoit
2) HBK
1) Angle

....of course, this is just a guess based on a quick scan of the thread.

Hacksaw
November 22nd, 2005, 2:28 PM
Top 10 Mic Workers Alltime in the WWF

1. Piper
2. Austin
3. Jericho
4. Rocky
5. Michaels
6. Savage
7. Roberts
8. Flair
9. Nash
10. Angle

Yes, I know Nash did his best work when he was with WCW, but he was always good. Except in his run in 2003.

JAYD
November 22nd, 2005, 2:43 PM
Top 10 Mic Workers Alltime in the WWF

1. Piper
2. Austin
3. Jericho
4. Rocky
5. Michaels
6. Savage
7. Roberts
8. Flair
9. Nash
10. Angle

Yes, I know Nash did his best work when he was with WCW, but he was always good. Except in his run in 2003.

Nash had almost ZERO good mic work in WWF/E. As Diesel he was "awkwardly angry yelling big man" and as a heel with SHawn he never talked. I'd agree with the other nine, though.

MMH
November 22nd, 2005, 2:48 PM
Top 10 Mic Workers Alltime in the WWF

1. Piper
2. Austin
3. Jericho
4. Rocky
5. Michaels
6. Savage
7. Roberts
8. Flair
9. Nash
10. Angle

Yes, I know Nash did his best work when he was with WCW, but he was always good. Except in his run in 2003.

Michaels is horrendously average on the mic :nono: His only good work came as part of DX where he had the benefit of saying "naughty" stuff.

Also I assume you are judging just as in ring talent?

No Rick Rude? :cry:

Nice call on Savage though, incoherant rambling madness but genrally good intense stuff

Hacksaw
November 22nd, 2005, 2:53 PM
I actually had Rude 10th, scratched him off and wrote in Angle. :\ I seriously couldn't decide.

Michaels work since his return has generally been mediocre, but I liked almost all of Michaels mic work from 92-98. Thought maybe 5th is a bit high.

I swear I remember Nash finally getting allowed to speak rather than yell around halfway through his title reign. Can't remember any of his specific promos though, so it is possible that I'm imagining it.

Dodgy Browne
November 22nd, 2005, 2:54 PM
ABA Taker would have probably been in my top 10 mic skills list.

You.
Me.
Summerslam.

;)

MMH
November 22nd, 2005, 2:55 PM
Top Ten Managers/Valets (Soleley based on WWF/E work..)

I assume we can make our own list now then?

1 Jimmy Hart
2 Bobby Heenan
3 Jim Cornette
4 Freddie Blassie
5 Paul Heyman
6 The Grand Wizard
7 Lou Albano
8 Mr. Fuji
9 Paul Bearer
10 Elizabeth

MMH
November 22nd, 2005, 2:58 PM
I actually had Rude 10th, scratched him off and wrote in Angle. :\ I seriously couldn't decide.

Michaels work since his return has generally been mediocre, but I liked almost all of Michaels mic work from 92-98. Thought maybe 5th is a bit high.

I swear I remember Nash finally getting allowed to speak rather than yell around halfway through his title reign. Can't remember any of his specific promos though, so it is possible that I'm imagining it.

I liked Nashes mic work prior to him leaving for WCW where he played the tweener role. Other than that I cant remember much else about him on the mic in WWF

Wait...you dont have Hogan??? :eek: Love him or hate him he could work the mic

I dunno with Michaels I just think ive never "got" him, nothing he does seems truely beleiveable to me :dunno:

JP
November 22nd, 2005, 2:59 PM
Top 10 Performers

1. HBK
2. Angle
3. Rey
4. Undertaker
5. Booker T
6. Edge
7. Kane
8. Benoit
9. HHH
10. Big Show



Top 10 wrestlers based on ringwork

1. Benoit
2. HBK
3. Angle
4. Shelton
5. Rey
6. HHH
7. Booker T
8. Undertaker
9. Nunzio
10. Ric Flair



Top 10 Mic Workers in WWE

1. Vince McMahon
2. Eric Bischoff
3. Stephanie McMahon
4. JBL
5. John Cena
6. Undertaker
7. Shane MacMahon
8. HHH
9. Ric Flair
10. Simon Dean



Top 10 enetertaining in the ring in WWE

1. HBK
2. Rey
3. Angle
4. Benoit
5. Super Crazy
6. Juventud
7. Shane Helms
8. Nunzio
9. Big Show
10. HHH



Top 10 Big Men in WWE

1. Big Show
2. Kane
3. Undertaker


That about covers my love for the big guys.

Hacksaw
November 22nd, 2005, 3:02 PM
Yeah, I proposed on the first page that we just make this an all-around list thread.

Good list, though I always rated Sunny as a better valet than Elizabeth. Elizabeth took part in the higher profile angles, to be sure, but a lot of times she seemed to do Savage as much harm as good.

Also, I still rate Heenan as the #1 guy, but Hart was a cheap heat machine in his own right.

Hacksaw
November 22nd, 2005, 3:04 PM
I liked Nashes mic work prior to him leaving for WCW where he played the tweener role. Other than that I cant remember much else about him on the mic in WWF

Wait...you dont have Hogan??? :eek: Love him or hate him he could work the mic

I dunno with Michaels I just think ive never "got" him, nothing he does seems truely beleiveable to me :dunno:

I can see that. With Hogan, it seemed to me that just about everything he did in the WWF after his Savage feud was going through the motions.

Of course, I've included Michaels on the list despite years of mediocre work, and left Hogan off for the same criticism, making me a huge hypocrite.

Ringo
November 22nd, 2005, 3:10 PM
I don't know whether I'd have Austin above Rocky.. (That is, if we're basing it solely on work in the WWE.)

Please tell me your reasons.. :yes:

MMH
November 22nd, 2005, 3:12 PM
Yeah, I proposed on the first page that we just make this an all-around list thread.

Good list, though I always rated Sunny as a better valet than Elizabeth. Elizabeth took part in the higher profile angles, to be sure, but a lot of times she seemed to do Savage as much harm as good.

Also, I still rate Heenan as the #1 guy, but Hart was a cheap heat machine in his own right.

Aye, to be honest i rate Hart so highly due to his work in Memphis, also he always seemed to have the "better" superstars than Heenan which was weird coz Heenan was always cast as the main heel manager.

I think Elizabeth was vital part of Savages character, now dont get me wrong I think she was absoloutly useless (hell she didnt even speak until 1991) but the beauty and the beast thing they ahd going on was excellent. Like the Yin to Savages Yang or something like that....

Sunny could indeed draw heat though, shame she was lumbered with shit workers or gimmicks

JAYD
November 22nd, 2005, 3:12 PM
I actually had Rude 10th, scratched him off and wrote in Angle. :\ I seriously couldn't decide.

Michaels work since his return has generally been mediocre, but I liked almost all of Michaels mic work from 92-98. Thought maybe 5th is a bit high.

I swear I remember Nash finally getting allowed to speak rather than yell around halfway through his title reign. Can't remember any of his specific promos though, so it is possible that I'm imagining it.

Pretty much only after he lost the title at SS95. For a few months until he left after the April PPV he was laid back, cool, breaking the rules Diesel.

Hacksaw
November 22nd, 2005, 3:16 PM
I don't know whether I'd have Austin above Rocky.. (That is, if we're basing it solely on work in the WWE.)

Please tell me your reasons.. :yes:

Austin, I feel, could just work more styles convincingly-- or at least got the chances to. His early WWF work, playing the heel, into his incredible face run, into the paranoid heel he played during the invasion, he hit them all perfectly, and really tuned into the subtle differences in his character as he developed.

Rocky was amazing, but would get into ruts where he would promo very similarly. Also, Rocky's comedy promos were the best of all time, but can you really compare his serious promos to Austin's? A lot of Rocky's awesomeness came in his delivery, rather than in what he had to say.

If I were to rank promo delivery style, I'd probably rate Rocky as number 1.

MMH
November 22nd, 2005, 3:19 PM
I can see that. With Hogan, it seemed to me that just about everything he did in the WWF after his Savage feud was going through the motions.

Of course, I've included Michaels on the list despite years of mediocre work, and left Hogan off for the same criticism, making me a huge hypocrite.

Yeah! Boooo to you!

TOP TEN HEELS (full time in ring workers)

1 The Honky Tonk Man
2 Ted DiBiase
3 Rick Rude
4 Roddy Piper
5 The Iron Sheik
6 Bret Hart
7 Bad News Brown
8 HHH
9 Jake Roberts
10 Steven Richards:cool:

Hacksaw
November 22nd, 2005, 3:19 PM
Aye, to be honest i rate Hart so highly due to his work in Memphis, also he always seemed to have the "better" superstars than Heenan which was weird coz Heenan was always cast as the main heel manager.

Heenan did get Rude and Perfect though. So it's not like he didn't get his share of top guns. His interactions with Perfect were absolutely incredible.

JP
November 22nd, 2005, 3:20 PM
Good to see BNB on there. :yes:

Ringo
November 22nd, 2005, 3:21 PM
Yeah! Boooo to you!

TOP TEN HEELS (full time in ring workers)

1 The Honky Tonk Man
2 Ted DiBiase
3 Rick Rude
4 Roddy Piper
5 The Iron Sheik
6 Bret Hart
7 Bad News Brown
8 HHH
9 Jake Roberts
10 Steven Richards:cool:

Fantastic list. :yes:

Hacksaw
November 22nd, 2005, 3:22 PM
Yeah! Boooo to you!

TOP TEN HEELS (full time in ring workers)

1 The Honky Tonk Man
2 Ted DiBiase
3 Rick Rude
4 Roddy Piper
5 The Iron Sheik
6 Bret Hart
7 Bad News Brown
8 HHH
9 Jake Roberts
10 Steven Richards:cool:

:yes: to HTM. I wouldn't rate him #1 myself, but he's one of the very few guys of the last 20 years that people actually bought tickets to shows in the hopes to see him lose.

Where are Savage and Perfect? :\

Ringo
November 22nd, 2005, 3:23 PM
Austin, I feel, could just work more styles convincingly-- or at least got the chances to. His early WWF work, playing the heel, into his incredible face run, into the paranoid heel he played during the invasion, he hit them all perfectly, and really tuned into the subtle differences in his character as he developed.

Rocky was amazing, but would get into ruts where he would promo very similarly. Also, Rocky's comedy promos were the best of all time, but can you really compare his serious promos to Austin's? A lot of Rocky's awesomeness came in his delivery, rather than in what he had to say.

If I were to rank promo delivery style, I'd probably rate Rocky as number 1.

I agree with all of this.. and I would comment, but I'm having a bit of brainfuck.

MMH
November 22nd, 2005, 3:26 PM
Heenan did get Rude and Perfect though. So it's not like he didn't get his share of top guns. His interactions with Perfect were absolutely incredible.

Oh sure he got some quality workers, Perfect was ony with Heenan for a year or so though inbetween The Genius and The Coach thought of course he got an IC run out of it. He also had Andre of course which was massive.

It was weird though looking back and seeing how little success that Heenans men actually got. An IC run for Perfect and Rude neither of which had a strong run at the world champion and a poor tag team run with The Colossal Connection. Oh he also had Bundy come to think of it....

Hacksaw
November 22nd, 2005, 3:29 PM
Didn't Heenan also manage Flair when he was champ?

MMH
November 22nd, 2005, 4:22 PM
Didn't Heenan also manage Flair when he was champ?

Not really, he was aligned with him and introduced him to the WWF but left it to Mr Perfect to "consult" for him.

Its quite weird looking back now actually, ALL heels had a manager regardless of how over they were or how competant they were on the microphone. During the late 80's the only two guys I can think of hwo didnt ahve some form of valet were Rick Martel (who had Slick for about a month) and Boris Zukhoff....who strangely enough was neither over nor could he speak.

As for the heel list, Yeah Perfect would be very valid in my eyes you could replace Richards with Perfect as Richards only had like 4 months worth of major heel heat (I still think RTC was one of the hottest angles heat wise in WWE history..) and I always thought Savage was better as a face. Great at both of course as he was great at everything..

Hacksaw
November 22nd, 2005, 4:37 PM
Not really, he was aligned with him and introduced him to the WWF but left it to Mr Perfect to "consult" for him.

Its quite weird looking back now actually, ALL heels had a manager regardless of how over they were or how competant they were on the microphone. During the late 80's the only two guys I can think of hwo didnt ahve some form of valet were Rick Martel (who had Slick for about a month) and Boris Zukhoff....who strangely enough was neither over nor could he speak.

As for the heel list, Yeah Perfect would be very valid in my eyes you could replace Richards with Perfect as Richards only had like 4 months worth of major heel heat (I still think RTC was one of the hottest angles heat wise in WWE history..) and I always thought Savage was better as a face. Great at both of course as he was great at everything..

Fair enough. DiBiase never really had a manager either. He had his guys at ringside, but he was always the leader.

Also, agreed about Savage. He was great at both, and I don't know who on that list you'd replace with him. Maybe HHH, as I honestly don't think he's been a very good heel since 2000. I'm in the minority on that though.

The role of the heel has clearly changed though, to the point where I doubt we'll ever see someone as good at it as DiBiase and Rude ever again.

MMH
November 22nd, 2005, 4:49 PM
Fair enough. DiBiase never really had a manager either. He had his guys at ringside, but he was always the leader.

Also, agreed about Savage. He was great at both, and I don't know who on that list you'd replace with him. Maybe HHH, as I honestly don't think he's been a very good heel since 2000. I'm in the minority on that though.

The role of the heel has clearly changed though, to the point where I doubt we'll ever see someone as good at it as DiBiase and Rude ever again.

Yeah I thought long about putting HHH in. Personally i think generally he is a crap heel because he managed to win the war, Heels dont do that.

But I cant ignore his longevity as I heel I guess

Hacksaw
November 22nd, 2005, 5:14 PM
Still, if the role of the heel is to get faces over, HHH doesn't hold up. Rude put over people like Warrior and Roberts huge. Perfect put over Hart, Luger and Von Erich. DiBiase got VIRGIL over, for crying out loud. Sheik and Piper made Hogan a phenomenon, as Hart did with Austin. And that's just in the WWF.

Since his run as a main-event heel, who has HHH put over in a way to make them significantly more popular than they were before. It's sorta the other way around. The WWF put their best faces into making HHH seem like a great heel. Sorta backwards booking.

So even if someone wants to argue that HHH has been an influential character, it's hard to argue that he's been a great heel in the traditional sense.

Matty C
November 22nd, 2005, 9:29 PM
One list for now:

Top 10 Big Men in WWE/F history (to me anyway)
1. Andre the Giant - Especially before illness slowed him to a crawl. Andre was the pioneer of big men and to me no one has ever done it better.
2. Undertaker - His longevity comes for reason.
3. Kane - His lack of title runs is sad to me, with his charisma and ring presence few big men in WWE have ever been so good.
4. Big Show - I know I'm listing a lot of newer guys but Big Show deserves a nod here for his charisma and flexibility (character wise, not physically obviously).
5. Yokozuna - Great heel and for a guy who never spoke his impact is undeniable.
6. Scott Hall - Razor was fantastic in the 90's and his charisma alone puts him on the list.
7. Kevin Nash - I know he takes a beating on these boards but I was entertained by his Diesel character. HBK might have had a lot to do with that though...
8. Earthquake - I always hated Earthquake but then, I was supposed to wasn't I? It's sad to hear about his current health.
9. Batista - Hasn't been around too long yet, but if he can hang around with his current character for a few years I'll bump him up.
10. Kamala - Man I hated Kamala when I was younger, I remember one time my Dad told me that Kamala had defeated Hulk Hogan and I cried :cry:
For that he gets on my list….


I hope I haven't forgotten someone obvious....

Rolling Thunder
November 22nd, 2005, 10:06 PM
Top 10 Overall Perfomers in WWE
1. Kurt Angle
2. Chris Benoit
3. Shawn Michaels
4. Triple H
5. Randy Orton
6. Booker T
7. Matt Hardy
8. Edge
9. Val Venis
10. William Regal

Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork
1. Kurt Angle
2. Chris Benoit
3. Shawn Michaels
4. Triple H
5. Shelton Benjamin
6. Val Venis
7. William Regal
8. Randy Orton
9. Chavo Guerrero
10. Matt Hardy

Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE
1. JBL
2. Kurt Angle
3. John Cena
4. Eric Bischoff
5. Jonathan Coachman
6. Ken Kennedy
7. Shawn Michaels
8. Ric Flair
9. Carlito
10. Simon Dean

Top 10 Big Men in WWE
1. Kane
2. Batista
3. Undertaker
4. JBL
5. Big Show
6. Tyson Tomko
7. Bobby Lashley
8. Road Warrior Animal
9. Snitsky
10. Heidenreich

Hacksaw
November 22nd, 2005, 10:09 PM
Top 10 Overall Perfomers in WWE
1. Kurt Angle
2. Chris Benoit
3. Shawn Michaels

Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork
1. Kurt Angle
2. Shawn Michaels
3. Chris Benoit

You rate Benoit higher as an overall performer, but Michaels higher based on ringwork? :nono:

TapOut
November 22nd, 2005, 10:14 PM
Odd indeed.

Then again, he put Chris Masters in the top ten mic-workers list, so I wouldn't take those lists too seriously.

Hacksaw
November 22nd, 2005, 10:20 PM
Still, I guess he could be entertained by Masters mic work. No accounting for taste, but it's possible.

There's not really any way I can see someone who rates Michaels a better wrestler than Benoit, but then rate him as a worse overall entertainer. It's simply not conceivable. It's like saying "I like the taste of this bottom shelf vodka better than orange juice, but I find that the orange juice gets me more drunk."

Rolling Thunder
November 22nd, 2005, 10:48 PM
You rate Benoit higher as an overall performer, but Michaels higher based on ringwork? :nono:

Oops, The other way around :D
and I don't think Masters mic work is so bad... With no Christian, Jericho or Eddie (RIP) in WWE right now... he manages top ten.

TapOut
November 22nd, 2005, 10:57 PM
Oops, The other way around :D
and I don't think Masters mic work is so bad... With no Christian, Jericho or Eddie (RIP) in WWE right now... he manages top ten.

But HBK doesn't?

Then again, that HBK sure ain't no Melina on the mic......

As for Masters on the mic.. ever since he called JBL Mr. Suckdown (as in Smackdown..har har), I can't take him seriously. Much like Tomko stumbling halfway across the ring and dropping Jericho on his debut match, that will be a Masterpiece Moment I never forget.

Canucker
November 22nd, 2005, 10:58 PM
All Time performers....HBK, Austin, Rock, Taker, Hitman, Savage, Jericho, Angle, Benoit, Eddie, Hogan, Foley in no order!

Rolling Thunder
November 22nd, 2005, 11:03 PM
But HBK doesn't?

Then again, that HBK sure ain't no Melina on the mic......


Hmmmm I also missed off Carlito and John Cena... Oh well lol.

Hacksaw
November 22nd, 2005, 11:05 PM
Naming Carlito certainly doesn't make it any better. He's probably the most overrated mic worker in wrestling.

The Wilf
November 23rd, 2005, 12:06 AM
Top Heels of all Time

1. Jake Roberts
2. Roddy Piper
3. Ted Dibiase
4. Honky Tonk
5. Rick Rude

Top Faces of all Time

1. Steve Austin
2. Hogan
3. The Rock
4. Shawn Michaels
5. Bret Hart

Faves of all Time

The Rock
Austin
Mr Perfect
Jake Roberts
Ted Dibiase
Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels
Undertaker
Randy Savage
Ric Flair

WebbOfTime
November 23rd, 2005, 1:19 AM
Top 10 Big Men in WWE (and I'm talkin' BIG)
1. Big Show
2. Batista
3. Undertaker
4. Kane
5. Lashley

Not sure if people like JBL count as 'big men'.

Hacksaw
November 23rd, 2005, 1:28 AM
Why do people keep putting "Top 10 Big Men" and then only listing five or six people. Is it that hard to change the number in the title? Either that, or try to incorporate something funny into it? Like putting Stephanie 6th, for example.

Like they say, there are three kinds of people in the world...

Cactus Lem
November 23rd, 2005, 4:50 AM
Top 10 Big Men in WWE (and I'm talkin' BIG)
1. Big Show
2. Batista
3. Undertaker
4. Kane
5. Lashley

Not sure if people like JBL count as 'big men'.

That's the worst list of big men I've ever seen. You obviously haven't seen much.

Nero
November 23rd, 2005, 5:24 AM
All Time performers....HBK, Austin, Rock, Taker, Hitman, Savage, Jericho, Angle, Benoit, Eddie, Hogan, Foley in no order!

Agreed to the bone. A upcoming top performer is... :kennedy:

ANT
February 4th, 2006, 4:00 PM
Pasted from the other thread. I'll do the others later on

ANT's Top Ten overall performers.

1. HBK
2. Angle
3. Benoit
4. JBL
5. Undertaker
6. Edge
7. Flair
8. London
9. Cena
10.Chavo

Jericho would be top 3 if he were active. Eddie would have been as well. :(

That was back then. I'd figure I should bump this to see if anyone's opinions changed on their lists.

My new top 10 Overall performers

1. JBL
2. Benoit
3. HBK
4. Edge
5. Undertaker
6. Flair
7. Angle
8. Cena
9. Rey
10.Orton

I'll probably do a top ten ringwork list later.

PurePlayer
February 4th, 2006, 4:16 PM
Top 10 Overall Perfomers in WWE
1. Kurt Angle
2. Shawn Michaels
3. HHH
4. Chris Benoit
5. John Cena
6. JBL
7. Edge
8. Rey Mysterio
9. Ric Flair
10. Undertaker

Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork
1. Chris Benoit
2. Kurt Angle
3. Shawn Michels
4. HHH
5. Shelton Benjamin
6. Rey Mysterio
7. William Regal
8. Paul London
9. Gregory Helms
10. Edge

Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE
1. HHH
2. JBL
3. Angle
4. HBK
5. Ric Flair
6. Edge
7. John Cena
8. Undertaker
9. Orton
10. Kane

This is not a top ten big man but these are the top big men in the company right now
1.Kane
2.Taker
3. Big Show

Taker a few years ago would be number 1.

Canucker
February 4th, 2006, 4:20 PM
Top workers

1. Rey Mysterio
2. Chris Benoit
3. Shawn Michaels
4. Edge
5. JBL
6. Angle
7. Flair
8. Big Show
9. Cena
10. Taker (Would be higher if he actually worked more often and didn't ruin big four pay-per-views.)

ALoy
February 4th, 2006, 4:32 PM
Top 10 Overall Performers
1. Shawn Michaels
2. Edge
3. Ric Flair
4. John Cena
5. Chavo Guerrero
6. Triple-H
7. Rob Van Dam
8. Kane
9. The Big Show
10. Goldust

Top 10 Wrestlers based on Ring Work
1. Shawn Michaels
2. Shelton Benjamin
3. Triple-H
4. Edge
5. John Cena
6. Ric Flair
7. Kane
8. Eugene
9. Chavo Guerrero
10. Goldust

Canucker
February 4th, 2006, 4:38 PM
Goldust and RVD over Rey? Ridiculous.

Tempest
February 4th, 2006, 4:40 PM
Goldust actually is a better all rounder than Mysterio...

The ring work one did give me a good laugh though. Although most peoples do

Canucker
February 4th, 2006, 4:48 PM
I mean in ring of course. Rey isn't much outside the ring, but in the ring he is miles ahead of Goldust and RVD if you ask me.

Triple H's number needs a 2 in front it.

Narakuandsessy
February 4th, 2006, 4:52 PM
Top 10 Overall Perfomers in WWE
1. JBL
2. Rey Mysterio
3. Kurt Angle
4. Kane
5. Undertaker
6. Shawn Michaels
7. Ric Flair
8. Rob Van Dam
9. Booker T.
10. Shane McMahon (yeah)


Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork

1. Rey Mysterio
2. Chris Benoit
3. Shelton Benjamin
4. Kurt Angle
5. Shawn Michaels
6. JBL
7. Ric Flair
8. Super Crazy
9. Paul London
10. HHH



Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE

1. JBL
2. Vince McMahon
3. Kurt Angle
4. Ric Flair
5. The Undertaker
6. Edge
7. Mickie James
8. Simon Dean
9. HHH
10. William Regal


Top 10 Most Entertaining Wrestlers in the ring... in WWE

1. Rey Mysterio
2. Rob Van Dam
3. Super Crazy
4. Shelton Benjamin
5. Kurt Angle
6. Shane McMahon (I know he hasn't wrestled in awhile, but when he does, it's awesome)
7. Paul London
8. JBL
9. Kane
10. Most of the other cruiserweights



Top 10 (or 3) Big Men in WWE

1. Kane
2. The Undertaker
3. Big Show

Meh. I kinda threw this together. It was kinda hard to think between all the superstars, so it may seem kinda off.

I replaced Mr. Kennedy with Simon Dean. Kennedy's awesome, but Simon Dean is just pure ownage on the mic.

mth
February 4th, 2006, 4:56 PM
Erm, yeah there are a few of yours that i'd say are "off", Narakuandsessy.
you also have a long username.

MyMortisha
February 4th, 2006, 4:56 PM
Top 10 Overall Perfomers in WWE
Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork
Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE
Top 10 Most Entertaining Wrestlers in the ring... in WWE
Top 10 Big Men in WWE



Top 10 Overall Perfomers in WWE

1. Booker T
2. JBL
3. Kurt Angle
4. Rey Mysterio
5. Gregory Helms
6. Chris Benoit
7. Trish Stratus
8. Randy Orton
9. Shawn Micheals
10. Edge

Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork

1. Fit Finlay
2. Chavo Guerrero
3. William Regal
4. Ric Flair
5. JBL
6. Paul London
7. Shawn Micheals
8. Jamie Knoble
9. Chris Benoit
10. Kurt Angle

Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE

1. JBL
2. Simon Dean (YEAH!!!!)
3. Vince McMahon
4. Carlito
5. Shawn Micheals
6. Kurt Angle
7. Booker T
8. The Boogeyman
9. Shawn Micheals
10. Edge

Top 10 Most Entertaining Wrestlers in the ring... in WWE

1. Rey Mysterio
2. JBL
3. Chavo Guerrero
4. Paul London
5. Spanky
6. Jamie Knoble
7. Shelton Benjamin
8. Ric Flair
9. Edge
10. Chris Benoit

Top 10 Big Men in WWE

1. Kane
2. Big Show
3. Mark Henry
4. Viscera
5. Goldust
6. [This selection left intentionally blank.]
7. [This selection left intentionally blank.]
8. JBL
9. Bobby Lashley
10. Undertaker

Tempest
February 4th, 2006, 4:59 PM
Not one mention for Joey Matthews on ring work makes me a saaaaaaaaaad Jimmy :(

Canucker
February 4th, 2006, 5:08 PM
Ahh what the heck

In ring

1. Chris Benoit
2. Paul London
3. Joey Matthews
4. William Regal
5. Brian Kendrick
6. Fit Finlay
7. Rey Mysterio
8. Val Venis
9. Chavo Guerrero
10. Shawn Michaels

All-Time

1. Steve Austin
2. Ric Flair
3. Ricky Steamboat
4. Mr. Perfect
5. Chris Benoit
6. Randy Savage
7. Bret "Hit Man" Hart
8. Chris Jericho
9. Eddie Guerrero
10. Malenko

:dunno: Something like that.

Tempest
February 4th, 2006, 5:18 PM
I find it hard to post a decent best in ring list right now given that i've been somewhat glazed over in my viewings recently. Otus' above list would more or less hold my choices, but in a different order - With Bradshaw on there over Michaels

Feels like it's missing someone, though.

Canucker
February 4th, 2006, 5:21 PM
Flair maybe? I think I'd put Flair on there instead of Michaels actually!

Tempest
February 4th, 2006, 5:23 PM
FLAIR! I knew there was a very notable name missing from it. I'd probably drop Michaels for Bradshaw as I said and Spanky or Chavo for Flair

MyMortisha
February 4th, 2006, 5:23 PM
Top Ten Best Hyped Shit Wrestlers:

*Yes, I realize calling someone the "best" shit wrestler is an oxymoron, just work with me here, okay?

1. Nathan Jones
2. Moredecai
3. Sean O' Haire
4. Steve "Mongo" McMicheal
5. The Goobleygooker
6. Damien Demento
7. The Wall (WCW's hype machine really worked OT with this guy. No one bought it)
8. The Warrior (WCW Run)
9. Giant Gonzales
10. Glacier

Tempest
February 4th, 2006, 5:26 PM
Pretty harsh on Mordecai.

Clearly a talented guy with a gimmick that had potential - Just a so called creative team that had NO idea how to book it

OOOH PRETTY PROMOS....Uh, umm, what now?

MyMortisha
February 4th, 2006, 5:27 PM
Pretty harsh on Mordecai.

Clearly a talented guy with a gimmick that had potential - Just a so called creative team that had NO idea how to book it

OOOH PRETTY PROMOS....Uh, umm, what now?


Not too harsh. He's only number two.

Mantaur
February 4th, 2006, 5:27 PM
My list would be similar to that of Otus. I'd probably have JBL, Flair, and Noble on mine and take off Michaels and Spanky. Probably Matthews as well as I haven't seen enough of him.

Tempest
February 4th, 2006, 5:28 PM
Noble! I'm not with it tonight - Take off Chavo, Spanky and Michaels for Bradshaw, Flair and Noble

I think that's it :happysad:

Canucker
February 4th, 2006, 5:39 PM
What about Burch... ah, never mind. :)

I'm good with dropping Michaels, Chavo and Spanky for Flair, Noble and Bradshaw. For the all-time list, I'm tempted to add Owen in there, but all those 10 guys are deserving of being in the top ten. :\

These are kind of fun -- I'm gonna take a stab at the all-time mic workers:

1. Rocky
2. Jericho
3. Austin

... gets tricky after this

4. Heel HBK
5. Taker
6. Eddie
7. Christian?
8. Hogan?
9. Savage?
10. Foley?

I have no idea how to rank them after the top 3.

EDIT: PIPER at #4!

MyMortisha
February 4th, 2006, 5:39 PM
Top 10 Good Matches With Bad Wrestlers

1. Randy Savage vs. One Man Gang- WWF Superstar Challenge

2. Rey Mysterio vs. Mark Henry- WWE Smackdown

3. Shawn Micheals vs. Sid Viscious- Survivor Series 1996

4. Anybody vs. Triple Cunt

5. Randy Savage vs. Ultimate Warrior- WrestleMania 7

6. Shawn Micheals vs. Batista- Armageddon 2003

7. Ric Flair vs. Giant Gonzales- NWA

8. Bret Hart vs. Yokozuna- WrestleMania 9/10

9. Bret Hart vs. Diesel- Royal Rumble 1995

10. Diamond Dallas Page vs. Goldberg- WCW Halloween Havoc 1998

Tempest
February 4th, 2006, 5:43 PM
Hulk Hogan was a good wrestler in his day...

MyMortisha
February 4th, 2006, 5:44 PM
Hulk Hogan was a good wrestler in his day...


1994 wasn't really "his day", was it?

"Fixed" it........:)

Canucker
February 4th, 2006, 5:45 PM
Rock vs. Triple H - Backlash 2000

Thats right. :shifty:

Tempest
February 4th, 2006, 5:46 PM
1994 wasn't really "his day", was it?

"Fixed" it........:)


I was thinking more the Savage/Hogan match

Hogan became very, very lazy as his career went on - 90s especially. But he was always capable of having a good match in the right situation when he could be arsed

MyMortisha
February 4th, 2006, 5:49 PM
I was thinking more the Savage/Hogan match

Hogan became very, very lazy as his career went on - 90s especially. But he was always capable of having a good match in the right situation when he could be arsed


But I felt that Savage, as the heel, controlled the flow and pace of the match.

All Hogan had to do was go along with it and make his usual comeback when the time was right.

Tempest
February 4th, 2006, 5:50 PM
But I felt that Savage, as the heel, controlled the flow and pace of the match.

All Hogan had to do was go along with it and make his usual comeback when the time was right.


If he didn't know what he was doing the crowd wouldn't give a flying fuck about that usual comeback, nor would he know when the time was right...

MyMortisha
February 4th, 2006, 5:54 PM
If he didn't know what he was doing the crowd wouldn't give a flying fuck about that usual comeback, nor would he know when the time was right...


Good point. :yes:

But Savage is such a meticulous detail freak its possible the entire match was planned out in advance. Savage liked doing that. All Hogan would've had to do was remember how long the match was meant to be, and make his comeback when Savage directed him to.

I never once implied Hogan "didn't know what he was doing". What I meant was Savage guided him through the whole match. Hogan could've led the match, but it probably wouldn't have been as good that way.

If a wrestler's good, he doesn't need to have his hand held the whole time.

Horatio
February 4th, 2006, 6:12 PM
Nah, Hogan's bullshit at the finish of the match brought down the match a TON, but besides that, he did a great job of eating all of Savage's offense.

And as for the Henry/Mysterio SmackDown match ...
Did you not notice that Henry was perfect in the match, too?

Horatio
February 4th, 2006, 6:29 PM
Nah, Hogan's bullshit at the finish of the match brought down the match a TON, but besides that, he did a great job of eating all of Savage's offense.

And as for the Henry/Mysterio SmackDown match ...
Did you not notice that Henry was perfect in the match, too?

Top 10 Best Wrestlers in the Company
1. Rey Mysterio
2. Chris Benoit
3. Fit Finlay
4. William Regal
5. JBL/Joey Mercury/Chavo Guerrero/Booker T (yeah, a 4 way tie ... any one of them can be better than any other one of them .. but lately they're about equal)
7. Jamie Noble/Carlito

Top 10 Big Men In the Company
1. JBL
2. Big Show/Mark Henry
3. Goldust
4. Lance Cade
5. Batista
6. Tyson Tomko
7. The Undertaker
8. Viscera
9. Chris Masters (or Kane, if Masters doesn't count)

Tempest
February 4th, 2006, 6:32 PM
Ouch, Carlito over London? I know Londons had his problems with the WWE style but Carlito's hardly walked into it from what i've seen...

Horatio
February 4th, 2006, 6:36 PM
London, Carlito, Noble, Spanky (who I like better in WWE than outside of it), & maybe Henry could all be tied for the last spot.

I just wanted to keep it down to 10 & I prefer Noble & Carlito over London & Spanky.
And I'm still not sure about Henry.

Carlito's ring work is just such a nice departure from everyone else on the roster.
I dig it a lot.

EDIT - Actually, since his return, Noble has been fucking awesome & probably on par with Booker, JBL, Mercury, & Chavo.
After Finlay, he's the biggest dick in the company. And that's a good thing.
Noble is just great as little-Benoit. He should start following Finlay around.

Canucker
February 4th, 2006, 6:46 PM
corino and Tempest, I'd love to see your all time lists. :wiggle:

Narakuandsessy
February 4th, 2006, 6:49 PM
Erm, yeah there are a few of yours that i'd say are "off", Narakuandsessy.
you also have a long username.

Yeah. Maybe next time I should read the names of the whole WWE roster, then decide. :lol: And yeah, it's long. 14 characters.

Brian M.
February 4th, 2006, 8:13 PM
Top 10 All Around:

1. JBL
2. Benoit
3. Noble
4. Finlay
5. Regal
6. Chavo
7. Mercury
8. London
9. Angle
10. Flair

Top 10 in ring:

1. Benoit
2. JBL
3. Noble
4. London
5. Mysterio
6. Chavo
7. Finlay
8. Regal
9. Mercury
10. Flair

Top 10 Mic:

1. JBL
2. Noble
3. Flair
4. Cena
5. Booker T
6. Angle
7. Vince McMahon
8. Edge
9. Big Show
10. Val Venis

Undertaker_owns
February 4th, 2006, 9:48 PM
You.
Me.
Summerslam.

;)
That's not ABA taker, that's deadman taker.

Tempest
February 4th, 2006, 9:49 PM
Any Taker is great.

ruudjase
February 4th, 2006, 10:16 PM
I'm going to do this list sans Eddie G...

Overall Performers:

10. Kane
09. RVD
08. Chris Benoit
07. Batista
06. Randy Orton
05. Undertaker
04. John Cena
03. Kurt Angle
02. HBK
01. HHH

Top Ten Wrestlers based solely on ring work:

10. Batista
09. John Cena
08. Edge
07. Rey Mysterio
06. Randy Orton
05. HHH
04. RVD
03. Chris Benoit
02. HBK
01. Kurt Angle

Top Ten Mic Workers:

10. Booker T
09. Carltio
08. Ric Flair
07. Edge
06. JBL
05. Ken Kennedy
04. John Cena
03. HHH
02. HBK
01. Kurt Angle

Most Entertaining In The Ring:

10. Edge
09. John Cena
08. Kane
07. Ric Flair
06. Randy Orton
05. HHH
04. Chris Benoit
03. HHH
02. Rey Mysterio
01. Kurt Angle

Canucker
February 4th, 2006, 10:18 PM
I just died a little inside. :nono:

ANT
February 4th, 2006, 10:19 PM
I love these lists.

Punisher
February 5th, 2006, 9:43 AM
I love these lists.
Me too. The one guy put Triple H twice under most entertaining. And Kane is apparently in the top 10 with his entertainment in the ring. All I've got to say is *cough mark cough*

Smiddy
February 5th, 2006, 10:21 AM
That's why I think I'll pass on doing one of these. I can call a good match when I see one and I can tell what it's worth, but my judgment of who's a better wrestler and so forth and any argument to counter opinions or ridicule that follows just wouldn't be convincing.

Yes, Triple-H is one of my favourite wrestlers. I'm sorry. :(

What the hell, I'll at least do #1s . . .

Wrestling.
1. Chris Benoit.

Vocal work.
1. John Bradshaw Layfield.

Overall.
1. Edge.

Faceless
February 5th, 2006, 12:45 PM
Top 10 Overall Perfomers in WWE
1. HBK
2. Kurt Angle
3. Chris Benoit
4. Randy Orton
5. Edge
6. John Cena
7. Triple H
8. Kane
9. Rey Mysterio
10. The Undertaker

Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork
1. Angle
2. HBK
3.Benoit
4. Rey Mysterio
5. William Regal
6. Shelton Benjamin
7. JBL
8. Triple H
9. Paul London
10. Edge

Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE
1. JBL
2. HBK
3. Kurt Angle
4. Ken Kennedy
5. Ric Flair
6. Randy Orton
7. John Cena
8. Vince McMahon
9. Edge
10. Chris Benoit

Top 10 Most Entertaining Wrestlers in the ring... in WWE
1. Angle
2. HBK
3. Edge
4. Chris Benoit
5. Rey Mysterio
6. Undertaker
7. Paul London
8. JBL
9. Edge
10. Simon Dean
:yes:

Cactus Lem
February 5th, 2006, 4:44 PM
My current top 10.

Overall Performers

1.Benoit
2.Kurt Angle
3.JBL
4.Rey Mysterio
5.Jamie Noble
6.Edge
7.Ric Flair
8.Paul London
9.Chavo Gurrero
10.Booker T

Carlito and Val Venis just missed the list, as well as MNM. Shawn Michaels since Summerslam has had one of the worst spells of his career if you ask me, and therefore doesn't make the list this time.

Ring Work

1.Benoit
2.Mysterio
3.Chavo Gurrero
4.Paul London
5.Jamie Noble
6.Ric Flair
7.Regal
8.JBL
9.Kurt Angle
10.Trevor Murdoch

All time (from what I've seen)

1.Chris Benoit
2.Ricky Steamboat
3.Bret Hart
4.Brian Pilman
5.Steve Austin
6.Arn Anderson
7.Ric Flair
8.Shawn Michaels
9.Eddie Gurrero
10.Jushin Liger

Hacksaw
February 5th, 2006, 4:56 PM
Top 10 Big Men In the Company

6. Tyson Tomko
7. The Undertaker


Really? :\

Canucker
February 5th, 2006, 4:57 PM
Good to see Austin make high spots in some all time lists. :yes:

Skip
February 5th, 2006, 4:58 PM
Good to see Austin make high spots in some all time lists. :yes:
Well he was one of the best American wrestlers of all time

Canucker
February 5th, 2006, 4:59 PM
I think he's the best wrestler of all-time. I'm just happy to see people putting him in the top and remembering his pre Owen matches and his run in 2001 over his "kick kick stunner" stuff in 98/99.

Hacksaw
February 5th, 2006, 5:01 PM
Even the 98-99 stuff was great though. He couldn't go for long periods, and his flexibility was poor obviously, but he worked his matches in a smart, simple way that got a great response. The minimalist badass offense he used was perfect for his character.

Canucker
February 5th, 2006, 5:04 PM
I loved it. :yes:

It was perfect for that era in the WWF. But in 2001 he really proved he can still go beyond that basic but awesome stuff. I was in a chat and someone asked me who the best wrestler of all time is and I told him Stone Cold. He started mocking me for some reason saying all Austin did was kick punch and stun people. Ever since I assume people who think Austin sucks in the ring only saw him in 98/99 and even then he didn't suck.

Underdog
February 5th, 2006, 5:04 PM
Most Entertaining In The Ring:

10. Edge
09. John Cena
08. Kane
07. Ric Flair
06. Randy Orton
05. HHH
04. Chris Benoit
03. HHH
02. Rey Mysterio
01. Kurt Angle


comedy gold. :D :D :D

Tempest
February 5th, 2006, 5:22 PM
Even the 98-99 stuff was great though. He couldn't go for long periods, and his flexibility was poor obviously, but he worked his matches in a smart, simple way that got a great response. The minimalist badass offense he used was perfect for his character.


Definately. In whatever state he was in, Austin always retained his intensity and perfect timing. He wasn't at his best, but half of Austin still shits on a lot of people.

Big
February 5th, 2006, 5:22 PM
Top 10 Overall Perfomers in WWE
1. Angle
2. Edge
3. JBL
4. Benoit
5. HHH
6. Cena
7. Undertaker
8. Booker T.
9. Mysterio
10. Orton

Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork
1. Angle
2. Benoit
3. Shelton
4. Edge
5. Chavo
6. Rey
7. Finlay
8. Regal
9. JBL
10. Kane

Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE
1. Edge
2. JBL
3. Cena
4. Angle
5. Undertaker...so little said, yet so much of an impact!
6. HHH
7. Vince
8. Flair
9. Orton
10. Hayes' one time promo...he should teach people how to deliver them, I swear. He's on here because his one time promo is better then most others year round

Top 10 Most Entertaining Wrestlers in the ring... in WWE
1. Rey
2. Nunzio
3. Simon Dean
4. Shelton
5. Angle
6. JBL
7. Boogeyman
8. Tatanka
9. Finlay
10. Benoit

Top 10 Big Men in WWE
1. Batista
2. Kane
3. JBL
4. Big Show
5. Undertaker
6. Mark Henry
7. Tomko
8. Boogeyman
9. Big Vito
10. Snitsky

All Time
1. Austin
2. The Rock
3. Hogan
4. Macho Man
5. Steamboat
6. Flair
7. HBK
8. Bret Hart
9. Jake the Snake
10. Rick Rude

Horatio
February 5th, 2006, 10:19 PM
Really?

Yes.
I really like Tomko.

I doubt his best is better than 'Taker's best, but I think he's more consistent at this point.
Maybe it's just because 'Taker is only part time.
Or maybe it's because Tomko didn't squash Randy Orton at Armageddon.

It's totally possible that I'm just biased.
I don't know.

I'm going to go watch some Tomko matches & figure out what I really think.

That was a good question, Hacksaw.


I think he's the best wrestler of all-time.

And by that you mean Eddie Guerrero is the best wrestler of all-time, right?

Yes, yes.
I agree. :yes:

Hacksaw
February 6th, 2006, 2:21 AM
Yes.
I really like Tomko.

I doubt his best is better than 'Taker's best, but I think he's more consistent at this point.
Maybe it's just because 'Taker is only part time.
Or maybe it's because Tomko didn't squash Randy Orton at Armageddon.

It's totally possible that I'm just biased.
I don't know.

I'm going to go watch some Tomko matches & figure out what I really think.

That was a good question, Hacksaw.

Man, I almost always agree with you to some level, but here I really don't think we're on the same page.

I really can't find much in Tomko's work that stands out at all. His strikes are poor, he doesn't work especially "big"... in fact, I watch him, and I'm not sure what role he's supposed to be playing. I mean, he's put in there as the muscle, but he doesn't wrestle like a muscle guy. It's possible that he's like an O'Haire or Mordecai where he's simply not the right wrestler for the role they want him in, but until I see some evidence that he does something else well, I can't rate him.

I've had periods where I've been down on Undertaker's work as well, (specifically after the invasion where he squashed DDP and Booker T, the two guys legit WCW guys the WWF had under contract, and therefore NEEDED to have look good to make that angle work), but man, when he's on, he's the best big man in the company outside of Bradshaw.

He throws a quality punch, a solid clothesline, and has a great power moveset that really fits his character. He sells better than he's given credit for, but on top of that, I find his no-sells to be the most consistently good of anyone in the company. It's a better skill than one would seem to realize, but when he does his simple "sit-up", it's always at a perfect time, and I feel that it never makes his opponent look weaker. Part of that is the strength of his gimmick, but Taker deserves much of the credit for playing the gimmick so well, and making it so important.

As far as the situation with Orton is concerned, I feel pretty strongly like he looked better coming out of the feud with Taker than he did going in. After the botched face turn in the summer of '04, Orton basically marked time until he came to Taker. Armageddon was a bit disappointing, but they really delivered at both Wrestlemania and Summerslam.

Since Taker's gone back to the Deadman gimmick, I can see being down on his work. He doesn't work very often, and he's not especially consistent. I really enjoyed his work in 2002-2003 though, sorta the second half of the ABA character, when he was in more of a veteran toughguy role.

It was unfortunate that he didn't get better matchups during his short title run, as Hogan and an injured HHH were clearly not the guys for Taker to be working with. He was coming off a real solid feud with Flair at that point. He dropped the title in a great three-way with Angle and Rocky... went on to have a fun series with Brock capped by a damn good HIAC where Taker takes an absolute beating to put Brock over... then sorta got stuck in the Nathan Jones angle. I wish he'd faced either Show or Albert one-on-one at WM 19. Later that year he faced Cena in arguably the best match of Cena's career.

If you haven't seen Undertaker's match with Big Show at No Way Out '03, I suggest you do. It was right around the time Show really started to get motivated. I don't know what Heyman got Show to do when they were paired together in late '02, but thank God it worked, as he's really been one of the more underrated wrestlers out there ever since. But anyway, they work the match in a very non-WWF style, and they NAIL it, in my eyes. They play the gimmick that Taker can't do any of his finishers (chokeslam, last ride, tombstone) on Show. Usually, in the WWF, the payoff of this is that the face DIGS DEEP AND IS ABLE TO OVERCOME ADVERSITY and they end up hitting their finishing move anyway. Instead, Taker pulls out all the stops, including a clear plancha, and winning with a triangle choke hold. Probably the best match of Show's career, and probably one of Taker's top five.

Considering his inconsistency and schedule, I can see dropping Taker to third or fourth among big-men, but seventh is just too low. It'll be interesting to see how he can work with Henry at WM. On paper, it doesn't seem like a pairing that appeals to me. I don't rate Henry as highly as you, but I've been enjoying his work recently as a big, burly foil to smaller athletic types like Rey and Angle. We'll see how that works out.

Tempest
February 6th, 2006, 3:06 AM
Man, I loved Takers work last year. From 3 of the 4 (Or was it 5?) Orton matches and the super Bradshaw match, it was more or less a clean sweep of goodness. 3 of his matches being amoungst my favourite of the year (WM/Summerslam/Bradshaw on SD!)

I can understand his last match leaving a sour taste in people's mouth though, I guess. It was really weak all round. To me, though, it reeked of too much planning beforehand. What I mean is, it seemed like everything was so mapped out (and poorly) in an attempt to be epic that it ended up making both guys look bad...albeit in different ways.

For example, I thought the spot where Taker continually sat up was cool (As it always is). But it could easily be seen as Taker just making Ortons offense look worthless after a point. I thought it crossed the line from the no selling for dramatic effect to flat out no selling. Plus, getting Bob involved with that actual match was stupid too. The point of the feud in the first place was that Orton could hang with Taker. Granted, he'd had Bob help him out, but to get to the HIAC situation and have Bob get involved in the climax helped ruin it for me. Especially seeing as I felt that was part of what made it come off like Taker was just rolling through Orton.

I know there's more, but those are the two that stick out at me as the big stuff. The rest wasn't much better...

But asides from that match, I can't complain about Taker last year. I can understand people's frustration at his schedule. Way I see it though is if he can work like he did last year when he was around, as opposed to struggling to be passable at times in 04, i'll take it - Especially as it's prolonging his career.

As for Tomko, I honestly don't get it. I respect JIMMYismybestfriends opinion about the most on these boards (Obviously there's others), but i'm not too sure on that one. Basically for the reasons Hacky stated. I just can't see anything praise worthy or that the guy can do even somewhat well...

ALSO, I agree with him that Eddie's the best ever, if we're talking ring work. But as far as all round packages go it's got to be Austin.

Strictly sticking to ring work for the moment, i'd find it hard to really post a hard list for best ever. I know i'd have Eddie at number 1, with Benoit at number 2. Then it'd likely be Flair and Austin battling for number 3. Obviously, you'd have Billington, Steamboat and the like in there, but I don't have time this morning to sit down and really think about that...

Osi
February 6th, 2006, 2:57 PM
All Time Ring Work (based on what I've seen in the US):

Guerrero
Billington
Benoit
Austin
Flair
Steamboat
Vader
Pillman
Bigalow
Owen

Something like that I guess. Barry Windham strikes me as someone I should have included, but I haven't seen enough of him. Savage and Hennig were pretty awesome as well.

Hacksaw
February 6th, 2006, 3:02 PM
I still rate Benoit ahead of Eddie, though I admit it is sort of hard to get true perspective at this point. Ten years down, the way Eddie was able to control a crowd so easily may put him higher on the list, but at this point I really can't say.

I love Bam Bam, but I'm not sure about putting him in the top 10, ahead of guys like Bret Hart, Hennig, Malenko, Rude, Arn Anderson and Savage.

Osi
February 6th, 2006, 3:08 PM
Bret Hart's work really bores me to be honest. That may not be a reflection of his ability but I think his formulaic wrestling has left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

To be honest, I've only seen a couple of Rude matches. :$

Cactus Lem
February 6th, 2006, 3:28 PM
In all honesty I've always felt Ric Rude as an in-ring performer was a little overrated.

Although I won't deny he could control a crowd very well, with his heel in ring style, I found his matche's could drag at times, and he would sometimes use what looked like a BIG move, and it would lead to nowhere.

MyMortisha
February 6th, 2006, 7:09 PM
All this Undertaker love, its, well its inspired me.

Undertaker's Top 10 Matches

10. Undertaker vs. Ken Shamrock- Backlash 1999

-An odd choice I'll admit, but I still call it an absolutely brilliant match. During this period of time in the company it was well observed that Taker was becoming a lazy wrestler. He didn't seem to have that spring in his step, he wasn't busting out anything new. Hell, he wasn't even exciting to watch for most of 1999. I call it the "NWO Syndrome". When Hogan joined the NWO it became more about the group than the individual wrestler, therefore the individual wrestler's workrate drops. He's the focal point, but not in the ring.

But this match proved all that bunk wrong. Taker and Shammy put on a clinic. 'Taker's selling here proves one thing I've always felt about Taker; he can sell when he needs to. And its usually well above average. Shamrock works over 'Taker's leg the whole match. Taker sells it really well, it doesn't look like he can put any weight on it, and his offense suffers from it. His punches lack pepper and he can't hit any of his usual power moves. So Taker's forced to fight Shamrock's fire with his own fire. He breaks out some truly cool submissions (foreshadowing his MMA style as the ABA by about five years). In the end ‘Taker goes over, but he wrestles a BRILLIANT match in the process, and puts over Shamrock as a real star.

9. Undertaker vs. Kane- Wrestlemania 14

-This entry simply proves one point, not every match has to be the best-worked match ever. For all intents and purposes this was a simple brawl between two giants.

But the buildup and actual execution is what makes this match great. When Paul Bearer initially introduced Kane to the wrestling world, fans were shocked. The former dentist of the King was a true monster. After plowing his way through established superstars, Ahmed Johnson, Flash Funk, and Dude Love it was time for Kane to face The Undertaker.

Although the match was short (for a long building Wrestlemania match, anyway) it was sweet. This match was worked in a style we’d never seen Taker work before. He was facing a wrestler even he couldn’t dent. In many ways Taker was wrestling the mirror image of himself. He was wrestling someone who sat up the same way he did, attacked with the same style, and was completely unphased by what was being thrown at him. With Taker on the defense he was forced to bust out some surprising new moves. The plancha over the top, that sent him crashing through the Spanish table. Indeed, Kane looked invincible. In the end Taker made a very beleiveable comeback, and won with three Tombstones. A murder move in the WWF, no one had ever even kicked from one, and it took three to put Kane out.

In the end, even though he’d won, Taker put Kane over as a huge star. On par with even himself.

8. Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle- Survivor Series 2000

-Now I know a lot of people might disagree with this, but I haven’t enjoyed an Angle/’Taker match more than this.

While the work here wasn’t fantastic, the build was good and the story told was superlative. Previous to the match Angle had jumped Taker with a wrench, injuring his knee. ‘Taker had a weakness that Angle was going to exploit. Angle played the perfect dick heel here; cheating like a maniac. And again ‘Taker was forced into the “face in peril” role. Only this time it was more believable, he was “human” here, not the no-selling monster he was before. And he did a great job of beating down Kurt and playing the “pissed off, fed up, badass” that just wanted to stop dicking around and do the job. In the end Angle went over, due to interference from his identical brother Eric. Despite the finish, this match is ranked for the story, the execution and the way both men played their characters.

7. Undertaker vs. John Cena- Vengeance 2003

-People have called this the best match of Cena’s life. And I’m inclined to agree. Personally, I’ve always felt Undertaker should be putting over rising stars rather than beating them. This match is my exception. ‘Taker dominates for the beginning few minutes until Cena cheats and takes the advantage. ‘Taker does a superlative job of selling Cena’s notoriously weak offense and making it look KILLER. The end sequence makes great sense as well, Cena’s been beating the hell out of ‘Taker for nearly the entire match and stops to taunt. This costs him dearly, as Taker gets the Last Ride for the win.

Cena gets put over very nicely with this match, even through losing. Because he went toe-to-toe with Taker and held in there with him the entire time, not because he won.

6. Undertaker vs. Triple H- Wrestlemania 17

-I HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE Triple H. But even I’ve got to admit he and Undertaker simply clicked here. This is one of the BEST straight up brawls I’ve ever seen from two wrestlers. Some of the spots these two pulled off shocked me. The sledgehammer counter to the Last Ride, the chokelsam from the camera tower. Spectacular. Violent. And most importantly, fun. Aside from the work Hunter and Taker had also built in a metric ton of drama. Even if it didn’t come across this way in the buildup, it was obvious Taker had never faced someone on Hunter’s level at a Wrestlemania before. He’d beaten old-timers, the flavors of the month, and his own unestablished older brother, but never someone who could conceivably be on his level. In the end ‘Taker goes over. Unlike most of the other matches before this, Hunter wasn’t a wrestler who needed a “rub” from Undertaker. But he got one anyway.

Taker and Hunter never once slowed down here beating the high-holy Hell out of each other for a solid twenty minutes in one of the most underrated WM matches in history. And one of ‘Taker’s most underrated matches ever.

5. Undertaker vs. Ric Flair- Wrestlemania 18

-Its been said, that the best bag guys are the ones that don’t think/realize they’re doing anything wrong. This match was built around that very philosophy. Taker was carrying out McMahon’s dirty work, trying to bait old and out of shape Flair into a match by threatening his family and friends.

In the end it worked. Taker and Flair worked one of the most visceral, hard-hitting and well executed brawls I’ve ever seen. ‘Taker plays the perfect heel here. He’s not a dick, but he’s not the average “monster, *GROWL*, SNARL,” heel either. He’s a cocky badass who know he can take Flair. It doesn’t matter to him what Flair does or tries. He’s the younger man (not by much though J) and the bigger/stronger man. He’s in “game shape”, Flair simply isn’t.

While the work is more than adequate, the work is what puts this match over for me. Taker comes out cocky and dominating. It doesn’t take long for him to overtake Flair after Flair gets a brief offensive flurry. ‘Taker knocks Flair around a bit and even pulls him up out of a cover that should’ve been it. Eventually Taker gets over cocky, Flair takes over with some old-school tactics. In the end Taker is still the bigger, stronger, and tougher man. After a last ditch effort by an interfering Arn Anderson failed Taker pins Flair with the Tombstone when Flair simply can’t go anymore, and Taker still can.

4. Undertaker vs. “Stone Cold” Steve Austin- SummerSlam 1998

-I’ll preface this by saying this IS NOT a match centered around workrate. Instead, this match is a perfect example of a complete and total Attitude Era mainevent brawl.

Austin and Taker tear into each other. They brawl, they keep brawling, and eventually Austin pins Undertaker with a Stunner. Its THAT simple. But Undertaker really helps this match stand out, his legdrop from the top rope through the announce table is a move ingrained in my memory forever.

3. Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar- No Mercy 2002

-The second best Taker HIAC match, trailing only behind Michaels/Taker. The work here is nothing short of brilliant as Brock comes in with a distinct and well-executed plan. He works over Undertaker’s injured hand, he stomps on it, hits it with the belt, and even BITES AND TEARS at it. Throughout Taker is doing an amazing job of selling the injury. Every punch he throws causes him to grimace in pain. He’s out of his element now. He’s no longer the “striker” of the match, he’s injured, and his main offensive weapon is taken away. Now he’s Brock’s bitch. In the end Brock fights through an Undertaker offensive flurry, and hits him with the F5 for the win.

Here’s proof that ‘Taker doesn’t hold people down. This was a spectacular match, one well worth seeing. ‘Taker put Brock over as only he could, solidly and with authority.

2. Undertaker vs. Bret “The Hitman” Hart- One Night Only

-What can I say about this match that hasn’t been said before?

Its brilliant, long, hardfought, even, and Undertaker kept pace with Bret modifying his style to suit the match.

I can’t believe a match with a DQ ending turned out to be one of Undertaker’s best matches.

1. Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels- Hell In A Cell

-Again, what can I say about this classic match? Taker is the babyface here, and the crowd eats up absolutely everything he does with a big wooden spoon. The crowd DESPISES Michaels here. He’s the pitch perfect cocky heel, and he’s terrified.

In many ways this is more Undertaker’s match than it is Shawn’s. Shawn pinballs around for ‘Taker, but Taker always looks like he means business. He gets a solid fifteen to twenty minutes of straight offense. The crazy thing is, the crowd never seems to get bored. They pop for everything Taker does. He’s hugely over. Without a certain level of skill and precision Taker couldn’t possibly have the crowd in the palm of his hand the entire time. ‘Taker of course sells all of Shawn’s offense in the appropriate way. He knows when its time for the heel to take over and get on offense and he bumps for Shawn beautifully at all points, even taking a piledriver on the steps along with a few other relatively dangerous moves.

The finish also makes sense as well with Kane’s big debut and him costing ‘Taker the match. Its clear the only way Shawn was able to pull one out here was because of an unexpected outside force intervening. Its perfect booking that the crowd eats up. They wanted to see Shawn get his comeuppance, but now it clearly wasn’t happening.

And in the end, ‘Taker still comes out as the invincible babyface. He had Shawn reeling for nearly a half-hour only to have something unexpected stop him, its amazing booking.

Excellent match. Excellent booking. Excellent story. Excellent job from Michaels and Undertaker.

Brian M.
February 6th, 2006, 7:12 PM
Hmm, not sure why I haven't watched Taker/Hart ONO yet, despite having it on DVD.

Could be a good lead-in or follow-up to Raw tonight. :yes:

Cactus Lem
February 6th, 2006, 7:17 PM
Hmm, not sure why I haven't watched Taker/Hart ONO yet, despite having it on DVD.

Could be a good lead-in or follow-up to Raw tonight. :yes:

Do it. I was shocked and in total awe as to how good it was.

MyMortisha
February 6th, 2006, 7:41 PM
Top 5 Most Overrated Matches in WWF/E History

5. Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart- WrestleMania 12 Iron Man

4. Shawn Micaels vs. Kurt Angle- Vengeance 2005

3. The Elimination Chamber- Survivor Series 2002

2. Mankind vs. The Undertaker- WWF King of The Ring 1998

1. Triple H vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin- 3 Stages of Hell

Brian M.
February 6th, 2006, 7:43 PM
Great list Mortisha.

I'd put Batista/HHH HIAC over Hart/Michaels. But they're interchangable. It's amazing that two matches from the same PPV (Vengeance) are both so horribly overrated.

FaSho34
February 6th, 2006, 7:47 PM
Top 5 Most Overrated Matches in WWF/E History

5. Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart- WrestleMania 12 Iron Man

4. Shawn Micaels vs. Kurt Angle- Vengeance 2005

3. The Elimination Chamber- Survivor Series 2002

2. Mankind vs. The Undertaker- WWF King of The Ring 1998

1. Triple H vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin- 3 Stages of Hell

Dead on there

Stringer Bell
February 7th, 2006, 10:05 AM
Top 5 Most Overrated Matches in WWF/E History

5. Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart- WrestleMania 12 Iron Man

4. Shawn Micaels vs. Kurt Angle- Vengeance 2005

3. The Elimination Chamber- Survivor Series 2002

2. Mankind vs. The Undertaker- WWF King of The Ring 1998

1. Triple H vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin- 3 Stages of Hell

Lots of good picks, but I think there's stuff that's much more overrated that HBK/Angle at Vengeance. It wasn't their best match, but it was really good and close to the WM match, and I haven't heard of many people giving it more praise than that.

And as for HHH/SCSA 3 Stages... it may not be as good as people make it out to be, but I still though it was an oustanding match. I'd put Taker/Mandkin HIAC, Bret/HBK Ironman, or even one you left off, Austin/Rock WM17 (the most overrated match of all time in my eyes), in place of that one.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Austin/Rock and it certainly changed the wrestling world big-time. However, some people make it out to be one of the best thing's WWE's ever done (didn't John C. from the Oratory call it the #1 PPV match since 2000? Rubbish), and it's far from it. It doesn't hold up to the test of time well at all, and I can think of at least 5-10 matches since 2000 that were better.

Cactus Lem
February 7th, 2006, 12:39 PM
Great list Mortisha.

I'd put Batista/HHH HIAC over Hart/Michaels. But they're interchangable. It's amazing that two matches from the same PPV (Vengeance) are both so horribly overrated.

Who rates the Batista vs HHH HIAC? I swear I'm the only person on here who defends that match, and actually enjoyed it.

Also Mortisha, keep posting like you are at the moment. I just read the Taker list, and I thought it was very good. If I hadn't given out to much rep I'd give you some straight away.

Some Taker matche's I'd have put on though would have been the Angle match from SD in 2003, when Brock interferes, and from 97 his matche's with Vader and Austin. Many of the choices I totally agree with though, and it's funny when you look at the list to see how Taker did nothing significantly good ring work wise before 97.

Hacksaw
February 7th, 2006, 3:20 PM
Some Taker matche's I'd have put on though would have been the Angle match from SD in 2003, when Brock interferes, and from 97 his matche's with Vader and Austin. Many of the choices I totally agree with though, and it's funny when you look at the list to see how Taker did nothing significantly good ring work wise before 97.

I'd also like to point out the match Angle had with Taker just before Vengeance '02 (I believe it was on a Smackdown) where Taker went for the last ride, and Angle locked in a triange choke from the powerbomb position, and they had Taker tap at the same time Angle was pinned. Really enjoyable match.

And the three way that followed, Rock vs. Angle vs. Taker for the title at Vengeance should absolutely be on that list. Arguably the best triple threat in WWF history.

Cactus Lem
February 7th, 2006, 3:24 PM
I'd also like to point out the match Angle had with Taker just before Vengeance '02 (I believe it was on a Smackdown) where Taker went for the last ride, and Angle locked in a triange choke from the powerbomb position, and they had Taker tap at the same time Angle was pinned. Really enjoyable match.

And the three way that followed, Rock vs. Angle vs. Taker for the title at Vengeance should absolutely be on that list. Arguably the best triple threat in WWF history.

The Triple Threat is one of the most fun matche's I've ever watched without a doubt. It's basically a spot match, but it's not an over the top nonsensical spot match, it manages to tell a story still. Awesome match.

I've always wanted to see Taker vs Angle from before the PPV, unfortunatley I never have. Come to think of it, Angle and Taker always manage to have a good match whenever they are apired off againts each other. No Way Out has something to look foward to.

MyMortisha
February 7th, 2006, 6:22 PM
W
Also Mortisha, keep posting like you are at the moment. I just read the Taker list, and I thought it was very good. If I hadn't given out to much rep I'd give you some straight away.



Thanks Lemmy. :yes:

I'm thinking of doing a WrestleMania top-ten match list, the same way I did my Undertaker list. You can look for it in a couple days.

Cactus Lem
February 7th, 2006, 6:25 PM
Thanks Lemmy. :yes:

I'm thinking of doing a WrestleMania top-ten match list, the same way I did my Undertaker list. You can look for it in a couple days.

I eagerly await it.

Brian M.
February 7th, 2006, 6:32 PM
Who rates the Batista vs HHH HIAC? I swear I'm the only person on here who defends that match, and actually enjoyed it.


Meltzer gave it like ****1/2 and a lot of people point to that match to say Batista is better than Cena, or HHH is better than JBL.

Cactus Lem
February 7th, 2006, 6:39 PM
Meltzer gave it like ****1/2 and a lot of people point to that match to say Batista is better than Cena, or HHH is better than JBL.

Yeah I certainly think Meltzer overrated the match, but I really can't recall anyone else on here praising or defending the match other than me.

I rarley venture into TV/PPV so the praise it was recieving may have occured in there, so I just never saw it.

Just wondering can I gte your actualy opinion on the match Brian?

Brian M.
February 7th, 2006, 6:41 PM
I'd say it was like ***1/2. It certainly wasn't bad, but I don't think they fully took advantage of the Cell, and basically worked it like a Street Fight. Plus it didn't really tell a story. It was just hitting each other with weapons until one guy can't get up. Like I said, not bad by any means, but it could've been better.

Hacksaw
February 7th, 2006, 7:12 PM
Meltzer gave it like ****1/2

:lol:

That's on the ten-star scale rating, right?

Preposterous.

MyMortisha
February 7th, 2006, 7:15 PM
Just curious, what did Meltz give to Bossman/'Taker and Hunter/Nash in their HIAC matches

Brian M.
February 7th, 2006, 7:18 PM
I've no idea. I doubt anything over ***, since I don't recall seeing them on that list of his matches *** or over.

relentless
February 7th, 2006, 7:25 PM
Top 10 Overall Perfomers in WWE

1. Kurt Angle
2. Rey Mysterio
3. Ric Flair
4. Edge
5. Shawn Michaels
6. Chris Benoit
7. Carlito
8. Mickie James
9. Paul London
10. Randy Orton

Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork

1. Kurt Angle
2. Rey Mysterio
3. Edge
4. Ric Flair
5. Carlito
6. Chris Benoit
7. Shawn Michaels
8. Randy orton
9. Paul London
10. Mickie james

Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE

1. Vince Mcmahon
2. Edge
3. HHH
4. JBL
5. Kurt Angle
6. Shawn Michaels
7. Ric Flair
8. John Cena
9. Randy orton
10. Mickie James

Top 10 Most Entertaining Wrestlers in the ring... in WWE

1. Kurt Angle
2. Edge
3. Rey Mysterio
4. Chris Benoit
5. Paul London
6. Brian Kendrick
7. Kane
8. Fit Finlay
9. Jamie Noble
10. Shelton benjamin

Hacksaw
February 7th, 2006, 7:26 PM
Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork

1. Kurt Angle
2. Rey Mysterio
3. Edge
4. Ric Flair
5. Carlito
6. Chris Benoit
7. Shawn Michaels
8. Randy orton
9. Paul London
10. Mickie james

:lol:

No, Carlito and Edge aren't better than Chris Benoit. And no, you can't say that it's personal opinion.

Canucker
February 7th, 2006, 7:27 PM
Randy Snoreton over Finlay? FINLAY?!

MyMortisha
February 7th, 2006, 7:29 PM
I'm fairly certain Relentless is a massive Mickie James mark.

Hacksaw
February 7th, 2006, 7:30 PM
And I'm a Hacksaw Jim Duggan mark. Why don't I claim he's a better wrestler than Bret Hart?

Brian M.
February 7th, 2006, 7:32 PM
Carlito does one flippity floppity move and now he's better than Benoit? Yeah...

MyMortisha
February 7th, 2006, 7:32 PM
And I'm a Hacksaw Jim Duggan mark. Why don't I claim he's a better wrestler than Bret Hart?


I don't see what you're getting at.

I simply observed that she was on literally all of his lists.

relentless
February 7th, 2006, 7:39 PM
:lol:

No, Carlito and Edge aren't better than Chris Benoit. And no, you can't say that it's personal opinion.

Of late they have impressed me more. Or it could just be because Benoit is consistently good, and at times it is over-looked :dunno:

Ant in another thread you were "claiming" how Carlito is the best thing since sliced fucking bread. I wish you would just stick lipstick across your forehead to make up your mind. :)

relentless
February 7th, 2006, 7:41 PM
Randy Snoreton over Finlay? FINLAY?!

Dude, Orton has a high ring work ethic. If you don't think so then we must be watching different shows.

relentless
February 7th, 2006, 7:43 PM
I'm fairly certain Relentless is a massive Mickie James mark.

I think she is a very solid all round performer. A great addition to the diva ranks. :yesyes:

Canucker
February 7th, 2006, 7:43 PM
He's terrible. His constant sleepers are doing the job on his opponent and on me.

ANT
February 7th, 2006, 7:43 PM
Ant in another thread you were "claiming" how Carlito is the best thing since sliced fucking bread. I wish you would just stick lipstick across your forehead to make up your mind. :)
What?

I haven't even made a comment on your list.

And no, I haven't said that about Carlito.

Hacksaw
February 7th, 2006, 7:50 PM
I don't see what you're getting at.

I simply observed that she was on literally all of his lists.


My point is that how big a fan he is of someone should be irrelevent to his discussion of how highly he rates someone as a worker.

relentless
February 7th, 2006, 7:51 PM
What?

I haven't even made a comment on your list.

And no, I haven't said that about Carlito.

I get you and Brian M mixed up all the time.

I'm a man I will apologize for the case of mistaken identity.

You "insinuated" in the HHH/ Hbk thread Carlito is great.

MyMortisha
February 7th, 2006, 7:51 PM
My point is that how big a fan he is of someone should be irrelevent to his discussion of how highly he rates someone as a worker.


:dunno: There's no accounting for taste I guess.

relentless
February 7th, 2006, 7:53 PM
My point is that how big a fan he is of someone should be irrelevent to his discussion of how highly he rates someone as a worker.

Her positioning on my lists has nothing to do with whether I like her or not. The performances she has given recently are of a good standard, and her mic skills are at an impressive level too.

Brian M.
February 7th, 2006, 7:58 PM
Work of a good standard doesn't put you in the top 10.

Hacksaw
February 7th, 2006, 7:58 PM
First off, her mic skill has nothing to do with her wrestling skill, which was the list that I quoted.

Second, she may very well be the best female wrestler, along with Trish. But she's not the 10th best wrestler in the company. If you think she is, since that's so far out of the mainstream opinion, the burden of proof that she belongs there is in your court. Saying that "she's impressive" and "of a good standard" aren't going to cut it.

That's the problem with list threads. Nobody explains anything.

MyMortisha
February 7th, 2006, 8:00 PM
I know.

But in all fairness, she might rank about 20/25 as far as company wide goes.

Probably second if we were just ranking the Divas.

relentless
February 7th, 2006, 8:10 PM
First off, her mic skill has nothing to do with her wrestling skill, which was the list that I quoted.

Second, she may very well be the best female wrestler, along with Trish. But she's not the 10th best wrestler in the company. If you think she is, since that's so far out of the mainstream opinion, the burden of proof that she belongs there is in your court. Saying that "she's impressive" and "of a good standard" aren't going to cut it.

That's the problem with list threads. Nobody explains anything.

I never said her mic skills had fuck all to do with her wrestling skill.

"second off" I don't wear a fucking fleece like you shallow borg minded amoebas.

As for saying my opinions of her aren't going to cut it, says who?

The majority?

You?

You know it's funny, I don't remember dying and making you God :lol:

It's MY opinion, don't like it? Eat a dick and choke on it. :heart:

Brian M.
February 7th, 2006, 8:11 PM
You know, instead of being a complete asshole, you could try and back up your opinions. Sad to see you went the name calling route.

relentless
February 7th, 2006, 8:20 PM
You know, instead of being a complete asshole, you could try and back up your opinions. Sad to see you went the name calling route. :lol:

That is fucking so rich and hypocritical it leaves a nasty after-burn on my fingers. The majority of posters on this website have a "God complex" they think that what they say, who they like etc should be taken and followed as the fucking Gospel. Then someone with a different opinion comes along (like myself for example) and they revert to a "pack mentality" and try and bully the person who refuses to be assimilated. Well I'm sorry guys, but I march to the beat of my own drum and I have just as much right to an opinion as you all do. :D

Brian M.
February 7th, 2006, 8:24 PM
Yeah, and I'm asking you to back it up, as this is a discussion board. You can just keep laughing and making fun of us all you want, but that doesn't prove your point.

relentless
February 7th, 2006, 8:34 PM
Yeah, and I'm asking you to back it up, as this is a discussion board. You can just keep laughing and making fun of us all you want, but that doesn't prove your point.

Ok Genius, how do you suggest I do that huh? If you stopped and thought about maybe "wrestler A" has had more on air matches than Mickie james recently. How could you possibly compare their in-ring work rate? Personally I think she has worked incredibly hard in her matches since joining the RAW brand. Her New Years Resolution match with Trish was a high quality encounter, the tag matches she has been involved with on RAW she has always shown maxium effort and a willingness to learn and perfect her trade. Ok so the match at the RR was a little dissapointing but if Ashley was Trish or say Victoria do you think the match would have been as poor? Because I don't.

captainsoftrock
February 7th, 2006, 8:37 PM
Top 10 Overall Perfomers in WWE

10. Trish Stratus
9. Edge
8. JBL
7. Shelton Benjamin
6. Ric Flair
5. William Regal
4. Paul London
3. Brian Kendrick
2. Kurt Angle
1. Shawn Michaels

Top 10 Wrestlers in WWE based on Ringwork

10. Mysterio
9. Super Crazy
8. Noble
7. Psycosis
6. Benoit
5. Paul London
4. HHH
3. Kid Kash
2. Brian Kendrick
1. Michaels

Top 10 Mic-Workers in WWE


10. Cena
9. Carlito
8. Regal
7. Edge
6. Michaels
5. Kendrick
4. HHH
3. Vince
2. Ric Flair
1. JBL

Jmarquesw
February 7th, 2006, 9:03 PM
I hate Regal's mic work.He bores me on the mic.

Stringer Bell
February 7th, 2006, 9:09 PM
Ok Genius, how do you suggest I do that huh? If you stopped and thought about maybe "wrestler A" has had more on air matches than Mickie james recently. How could you possibly compare their in-ring work rate? Personally I think she has worked incredibly hard in her matches since joining the RAW brand. Her New Years Resolution match with Trish was a high quality encounter, the tag matches she has been involved with on RAW she has always shown maxium effort and a willingness to learn and perfect her trade. Ok so the match at the RR was a little dissapointing but if Ashley was Trish or say Victoria do you think the match would have been as poor? Because I don't.

You put Carlito and Edge over Benoit in terms of ring work. Regardless of the Mickie James thing, that alone was a major slip-up. Like Hacksaw said, that's not even a matter of opinion. I don't care how big of a mark for either you are, when it comes down to workrate, Benoit takes the F'ing cake.

MyMortisha
February 7th, 2006, 9:16 PM
So yeah, I'm dieing to do a top-ten Wrestlemania match list similar in format to my Undertaker list.

But then I realized, "damn there's a lot of really good Wrestlemania matches to choose from.

So here's my initial list. Nothing here is short of three stars.

*** Star Matches:

The British Bulldogs vs. The Dream Team- Wrestlemania 2

Jake "The Snake" Roberts vs. "The Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase- Wrestlemania 6

The Nasty Boys vs. The Hart Foundation- Wrestlemania 7

The Steiner Brothers vs. The Headshrinkers- Wrestlemania 9

Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel- Wrestlemania 11

The Undertaker vs. Diesel- Wrestlemania 12

Triple H vs. Owen Hart- Wrestlemania 14

Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho- Wrestlemania 2000

Diamond Dallas Page vs. Christian- Wrestlemania 18

Evolution vs. Rock 'N' Sock- Wrestlemania 20

Money In The Bank Ladder Match- Wrestlemania 21

**** Star Matches:

Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan- Wrestlemania 5

Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior- Wrestlemania 6

Hulk Hogan vs. Sargeant Slaughter- Wrestlemania 7

Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon- Wrestlemania 10

Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar- Wrestlemania 19

****1/2 to ***** Star Matches:

Randy Savage vs. Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat- Wrestlemania 3- *****

Bret Hart vs. Rowdy Roddy Piper- Wrestlemania 8- ****1/2

The Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage- Wrestlemania 7- *****

Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage- Wrestlemania 8- *****

Bret "The Hitman" Hart vs. Owen Hart- Wrestlemania 10- *****

Bret "The Hitman" Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin- Wrestlemania 13- *****

TLC 2- Wrestlemania 17- ****1/2

"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. The Rock- Wrestlemania 17- *****

Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels- Wrestlemania 19- *****

Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H- Wrestlemania 20- *****

Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle- Wrestlemania 21 *****

-So, from these matches I will attempt to ferret out the top ten best Wrestlemania matches of all time.

I can't promise you'll agree with me, but it should be entertaining.

captainsoftrock
February 7th, 2006, 9:17 PM
I hate Regal's mic work.He bores me on the mic.


I'll admit it's hot and cold. When he's on though, he's fantastic. I really enjoyed his stuff during the eugene/bischoff angle.

Canucker
February 7th, 2006, 9:20 PM
Hogan/Slaughter was 4 stars?

MyMortisha
February 7th, 2006, 9:23 PM
Hogan/Slaughter was 4 stars?


I thought the crowd heat and the actual in-ring work made it worth it.

Its not the best worked match ever, but what's there was perfectly done.

Cewsh
February 7th, 2006, 9:24 PM
That's what I was wondering about too.

Oh and Regal is pretty good on the mic, but vignettes are where he is a god.

Jmarquesw
February 7th, 2006, 9:25 PM
When it comes to mic work here are my top 10 favorite that are currently on the roster though not in order

1.Edge

2.Cena

3.JBL

4.Michaels

5.Carlito

6.Foley

7.Flair

8.Goldust

9.Kennedy

10.Simon Dean

Manicss
February 7th, 2006, 9:27 PM
Nothing from Wrestlemania 19 Mortisha? HBK v Y2J is definitely in the **** territory.

Great list though. And I loved the Undertaker one. Personally would have had Undertaker/Vader from Canadian Stampede in there.

captainsoftrock
February 7th, 2006, 9:29 PM
Good list, I forgot about Foley. I think Kennedy is way overrated in everything though. He's an Ok in-ring worker (his finisher is great), but the MR. KEEEEEENEEEDY thing got old real quick. To be in a rut so early in his career hints to me that he is a one trick poney. To be fair though, I'd have to seem him in a feud before I can completely judge.

Jmarquesw
February 7th, 2006, 9:37 PM
If Kennedy doesen't have the U.S strap around his waist by the end of the year or if he is traded to Raw and doesen't have the I.C title around his waist by year's end than that would suck ass.

MyMortisha
February 7th, 2006, 9:41 PM
Nothing from Wrestlemania 19 Mortisha? HBK v Y2J is definitely in the **** territory.

Great list though. And I loved the Undertaker one. Personally would have had Undertaker/Vader from Canadian Stampede in there.


Edited Shawn/Jericho, and Lesnar/Angle into the appropriate sections.

Actually, I haven't seen 'Taker/Vader from Canadian Stampede.

mth
February 7th, 2006, 9:44 PM
Good list, I forgot about Foley. I think Kennedy is way overrated in everything though. He's an Ok in-ring worker (his finisher is great), but the MR. KEEEEEENEEEDY thing got old real quick. To be in a rut so early in his career hints to me that he is a one trick poney. To be fair though, I'd have to seem him in a feud before I can completely judge.
You didn't see him on Byte This, did you? He was in top form and quite hilarious.
The guy has cut a few more promos beyond his standard ring entrance one, and he's been quite decent in all of them.
If you want to talk stuck in a rut, and one trick ponies, look no further than what they're doing with the guy in my avatar.

relentless
February 7th, 2006, 9:51 PM
You put Carlito and Edge over Benoit in terms of ring work. Regardless of the Mickie James thing, that alone was a major slip-up. Like Hacksaw said, that's not even a matter of opinion. I don't care how big of a mark for either you are, when it comes down to workrate, Benoit takes the F'ing cake.

Of late they have impressed me more. Or it could just be because Benoit is consistently good, and at times it is over-looked :dunno:

Before beavering away at your keyboard, I already explained why that could be a possible over-sight as stated above.

I much prefer Benoit to either Carlito or Edge just for the record.

Dynomite
February 7th, 2006, 9:57 PM
Just curious, what did Meltz give to Bossman/'Taker and Hunter/Nash in their HIAC matches

Bossman/'Taker: DUD

Hunter/Nash: ***1/4

Hunter/Cactus: ****1/2

Hunter/Jericho: ***3/4

It seems he rates any cell match over 15 minutes an automatic ***.

Stringer Bell
February 7th, 2006, 9:57 PM
I don't understand. What does Benoit being consistently good have anything to do with those guys being above him? Doesn't really matter. If they've impressed you more, I'm really sorry. Edge has been stinking up the ring on Raw with John Cena while Benoit has been carrying Orton to some of the most enjoyable matches of his young career. Makes a looooot of sense.


Mortisha, pretty damn good ratings :yes: Christian/DDP at *** though? It wasn't a bad match, I just thought other matches were just as good or better that should be on there.

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts in here, I think Austin/Rock at WM17 is one of the most overrated matches of all time. It was awesome at the time, but it hasn't stood the test of time very well at all. Just my opinion of course.

I don't remember Batista/HHH's HIAC getting ****1/2, that's absurd. Meltzer's so tough with his ratings, you'd think a match like that would have a hard time getting passed ***1/2. Just insanity. What did he give Jericho/HHH and HHH/Cactus?

Dynomite
February 7th, 2006, 10:02 PM
Just insanity. What did he give Jericho/HHH and HHH/Cactus?

Look at my post above. :yes:

Stringer Bell
February 7th, 2006, 10:18 PM
Look at my post above. :yes:

You edited that in after my post, fucker :p

But anyway, at least the Cactus match got the same rating. Personally, I thought it was much better, but meh..

As for the Jericho one only getting ***3/4 while Batista's is ****1/2... well, um... :wtf: Does he not remember/check what he gave older matches, or does he honestly think that it was that much better?

Hacksaw
February 7th, 2006, 11:25 PM
I never said her mic skills had fuck all to do with her wrestling skill.

"second off" I don't wear a fucking fleece like you shallow borg minded amoebas.

As for saying my opinions of her aren't going to cut it, says who?

The majority?

You?

You know it's funny, I don't remember dying and making you God :lol:

It's MY opinion, don't like it? Eat a dick and choke on it. :heart:

I ask for an explanation on why Mickie James was on of the 10 best wrestlers in the company, and I get this...

Yeah, this is my nominee for "overreaction of the year."

Cewsh
February 7th, 2006, 11:29 PM
How dare he?

Hacksaw died for your sins!

Chris
February 8th, 2006, 3:20 PM
I thought I might get in on the whole list craze. I really have no business making "best of all time" lists as I haven't seen enough to judge, so I thought I'd just make a Top ten best WWE matches of 2005 list. I've based it on a variety of factors, like match quality, feud, crowd, how memorable the match was, what it did for the participants, etc.

10 - Survivor Series: HHH vs Ric Flair

I could catch heat here for daring to put a HHH match in the top ten, but I just really enjoyed this match. We don't get to see big bloody brawls of this nature as often as we used to. Flair performed brilliantly; I really was impressed. He had that "never say die" attitude in the latter half of the match that can make a match compelling to watch. It was a good mix of brutal violence and the usual Flair comedy, and one of the few matches in 2005 where the "epic" style didn't detract from the enjoyment of the match. The Last Man Standing stipulation was also used fairly well, as they didn't have the referee counting to ten within the first 3 minutes of the bout. The match was focused on it being the end of the HHH/Flair feud, with both men going their separate ways.

9 - Smackdown April 14th: Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle

The best Guerrero/Angle match since their inital match at Wrestlemania 20, in my humble view. Thanks to injuries and other factors, I don't think we ever got to see Guerrero vs Angle at it's full potential. This came pretty damn close. It was a great battle between the two men.

8 - Smackdown February 10th: Kurt Angle vs Rey Mysterio

This was Angle and Mysterio's bout in Japan; quite underrated I feel. It was around the beginning of the period where Angle became a machine, having quality matches every month against a variety of wrestlers. The Japan crowd made for a nice change in atmosphere, and the match felt like a big main event. I'd be lying if I could said I could remember every part of the match, but it was a very good TV match.

7 - Wrestlemania 21: Money in the Bank Ladder match

This was a guilty pleasure - so much action and big spots galore. Shelton's performance was amazing, and the crowd respected him for it. He really made a name for himself in this match. You also had Chris Benoit's fantastic sell-job of the injured arm - this was during the time when Benoit's selling was absolutely fantastic (more so than his usual standard). He was extremely effective as the heart of the match; illustrating the punishment that you can receive in a ladder match. It was a nice contrast to the thrilling spots. The only criticism I have is that Edge could have done a bit more, as his win didn't really have the impact it could have had.

6 - Raw August 29th: Matt Hardy vs Edge

It's easy to put this on the list simply because it was what their Summerslam match should have been. But this was a damn good street fight, which played into the character's hatred for eachother very well. It's what we wanted to see all along - Matt and Edge just beating the crap out of eachother. It was good fun throughout. The dive off the stage has been done a gazillion times, but at least in this case, it fit the context of the feud - they wanted to hurt eachother as much as possible, even if meant sacrificing themselves. It left you wanting to see more.

5 - Raw August 22nd: Chris Jericho vs John Cena

This was the "You're Fired" match, which I found to be better than their Summerslam encounter. I think this match shows how spoiled we are, as you had Jericho and Cena fighting tooth-and-nail on free TV. The crowd was great, and the action really pulled you in. I particularly liked the way in which Cena sold the injured back - it took every ounce of strength to FU Jericho, and he really sold it as a desperate act. It conveyed the sense that Cena was fighting for his life, despite the stipulation of the match making the winner quite predictable.

4 - Backlash: Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin

What a PPV opener this was. This was a really, really good back-and-forth battle, with a truly split crowd throughout the match. Despite a lack of a real feud between the two (other than Jericho's impromtu song about Shelton), they really played up their characters well. You had Shelton trying to get in Jericho's head from the outset, constantly showing off his athleticism as he escaped the early chain wrestling. And you had Jericho firing back with his cockiness and his various counters to Shelton's moves. The match also had a number of crowd-pleasing spots, from the huge snap superplex to Jericho reversing the Dragon Whip into the Walls of Jericho. I think this match, along with the MITB, put Shelton on the map, and marked the beginning of Jericho's increased motivation after a rather dull 2004.

3 - New Year's Revolution: Elimination Chamber match

This was a fantastic match which has seemingly been forgotten by many. The crowd was electric the whole way through, and the 6 men gave it their all. There just wasn't a dull moment. You had Benoit and Jericho battling it out in the early stages, HHH and Edge playing their roles well and Batista looking very strong when he finally came out. This match is a blast to watch.

2 - Wrestlemania 21: Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels

This was the dream match of the year - the one that everyone will be talking about when they look back at 2005. I was tempted to give this the number 1 spot, but I really feel it ought to go Undertaker and Orton. Nevertheless, for two men that hadn't worked together before the match, this was quite an encounter. The atmosphere of Wrestlemania really elevated this match, as well as the "first time ever" label. The only criticism I have of this match is that things slow down a bit too much mid-way through - they have a nice start with HBK trying to outwrestle Angle, and the end has some nice spots and the dramatic ankle-lock sequence.

1 - Summerslam: Undertaker vs Randy Orton

Just edges out Angle/HBK. At first, I preferred their Wrestlemania 21 bout, but after recently rewatching Orton/Taker 2, this was the better quality match. Their Wrestlemania encounter had more emotional investment (due to Taker's streak), but the sheer quality of this match makes me rate it higher. Both men are on top form in this match, and we see more of the counter-wrestling that was so enjoyable in their WM 21 match.

I think the great thing about this match is how both men get a chance to dominate - Undertaker has the advantage at first, but then Orton really starts to fire back with his work on Taker's leg. It made both men look good. These two men have clicked very well all year around, which only made Armageddon more disappointing when their final match didn't live up to expectations.

2005 was a really great year for matches, and if I had a top 20, there would have been a lot of ties. There are certain matches which I think got a little overrated in the end. The HBK/Edge street fight, for example, was a fun match, but I think a match can sometimes be overrated simply because there's a a big blade-job. I'm certainly not accusing everyone of thinking that, but I do feel it had something to do with it. And while I think the Benoit/Orton series was good (one match in particular was very good - I can't remember which), I just think the action dragged in the arly portions of the matches. I'm not a fan of Orton's slow, methodical style as of late (though it can work well when called for).

Cactus Lem
February 8th, 2006, 3:42 PM
Good list Chris. I'm glad that you seemed to enjoy Orton vs Taker from Summerlsam and the Hardy vs Edge Street Fight as much as I did. Neither of those get to much praise, and they really both deserve it if you ask me.

The Taker vs Orton match I watched with my brother, and I really enjoyed it because I was able to teach him about ring psychology and storytelling when watching the match, and it helped us both get into it. Great performance by both men.

Hacksaw
February 8th, 2006, 3:44 PM
Good list Chris, though I'd definitely include Undertaker-Orton from Wrestlemania on there as well.

That's a list of some pretty good matches, but looking back, it was a really weak year overrall. Maybe two four star matches? I feel like there were a couple more matches that I really liked this year. Was Regal-Benoit from Velocity this year? If so, it belongs on the list, even if it wasn't on a major show.

Tempest
February 8th, 2006, 3:47 PM
I'd have put Regal/Benoit, Bradshaw/Taker and WM Taker/Orton on there

But eitherway, good read as always Chrisinator :yes:

Chris
February 8th, 2006, 3:50 PM
Good list Chris, though I'd definitely include Undertaker-Orton from Wrestlemania on there as well.

That's a list of some pretty good matches, but looking back, it was a really weak year overrall. Maybe two four star matches? I feel like there were a couple more matches that I really liked this year. Was Regal-Benoit from Velocity this year? If so, it belongs on the list, even if it wasn't on a major show.
I definitely left out a few - Undertaker vs JBL, Regal vs Benoit, JBL/Cena I Quit, Jericho vs Cena vs Christian, etc (as Tempest just said).

Didn't Regal and Benoit have a few matches this year? If so, then I only saw one of them. It was awfully similar to their match at the Brian Pillman show. Not really a criticism, but just something I noticed.

What would you say the two four star matches were?

Cactus Lem
February 8th, 2006, 3:55 PM
Matche's I'd rate at 4 stars and above this year

Elimination Chamber - NYR
6 Man Ladder Match - Wrestlemania
Angle vs HBK - Wrestlemania
Edge vs Hardy - Raw
Regal vs Benoit - Velocity

Hacksaw
February 8th, 2006, 3:56 PM
Orton-Taker at SS I'm pretty confident in slapping four stars on. Michaels-Angle, a bit less so. As much as it gets talked about being overrated, it was a fun match. It just gets hard to rate when so many people go on about it being a five star classic amongst the best ever.

Also, the feud bugged me, because as JAYD pointed out in the Michaels/Cena thread, they just repeated their spots, rather than building on them. Once you saw the first match, you saw them all, and I really think it took something away from it. Still, standing on its own, the match produced a lot of fun moments, and could probably hold up to the four star rating on a generous day.

Benoit-Regal was probably my MOTY in the WWE, solid four star+.

Tempest
February 8th, 2006, 3:56 PM
I'd say Eddie/Rey ladder match was better than Angle/Michaels to be honest. I'm surprised how overlooked it is...

Most certainly better than the Hardy/Edge encounters

Cactus Lem
February 8th, 2006, 4:04 PM
I really think the Hardy vs Edge Street Fight gest overlooked. Both men put so much effort in to the match, and I simply loved the story being told, you could feel the hatred. Everything that happened in the match made so much sense, and I just felt wrapped up in it.

Chris
February 8th, 2006, 4:08 PM
I definitely preferred it over the cage match. I'd need to see the cage match again to be sure, but I thought it was pretty standard apart from the big leg drop at the end.

I really liked the Elimination Chamber match. The first 2 benefitted from individual performances, mostly. In 2002, it was Jericho and RVD that really held the match together. In 2003, it was Jericho again, with Goldberg actually looking strong for once too. But at NYR, all 6 men held up their end of the match.

Plus, the crowd deserves merit for staying so hot, after so many blunders earlier in the night (not to mention a weak PPV card to begin with).

Cactus Lem
February 8th, 2006, 4:22 PM
I definitely preferred it over the cage match. I'd need to see the cage match again to be sure, but I thought it was pretty standard apart from the big leg drop at the end.

I really liked the Elimination Chamber match. The first 2 benefitted from individual performances, mostly. In 2002, it was Jericho and RVD that really held the match together. In 2003, it was Jericho again, with Goldberg actually looking strong for once too. But at NYR, all 6 men held up their end of the match.

Plus, the crowd deserves merit for staying so hot, after so many blunders earlier in the night (not to mention a weak PPV card to begin with).

I loved the match. Nothing about it was wrong. The stuff with Batista and HHH was done perfectly, Batista was booked as good as I've ever seen the WWE book anyone. Jericho and Benoit really put a lot of hard work in during the early stages of the match, and really set the framework for the rest of the match. The furthering of the Edge vs HBK storyline also made sense as well. Some beautiful spots throughout the match as well, Edge's elimination sticks out as one, as well as Batista Spinebustering Jericho onto Benoit.

MyMortisha
February 8th, 2006, 5:01 PM
Update (for those that care) instead of doing a top-ten match list for Wrestlemania I think I'll be doing a top-twenty instead.

No real particular reason, other than that ten is too restrictive. I've got some matches I think should make it that wouldn't make it with just ten spots.

MyMortisha
February 8th, 2006, 7:22 PM
The Top Twenty Wrestlemania Matches Of All Time

#20- Chris Jericho vs. Christian- Wrestlemania 20

-Frankly I'm surprised at the lack of love for this match. The IWC looks at a show like Wrestlemania 20, sees Chris Benoit win the title and totally overlook a forgotten three-star class match like this.

Its saddening. :blah:

I absolutely love the work in this match. Everything is done AMAZINGLY well. Chrisitian plays the little prick heel really well, the crowd HATES him. Jericho plays the confident face at a level we haven't seem him pull off in years. There's quite a few spots that play to this, as well. For example, Christian elevates Jericho to the apron turns around playing to the crowd in a cocky manner only to be spun around and tossed out by Jericho.

We also see both men pull out some new things from their respective aresnals. Jericho (who's in all fairness, often times a very "paint-by-numbers" wrestler) especially goes the extra mile with a wide variety of suplexes and submissions. Christian shows off some technical skills as well. He locks in a GORGEOUS Texas Cloverleaf, and pulls off a very nice elevated DDT. Its pretty obvious by a point that these two are just treading water, waiting for the inevitable Trish heel turn and the end of the match. But what they throw out there during this point is so crisp and smooth it doesn't drag for a minute. It would've been just as easy to throw some punches and call it a "match breaking down into a slobberknocker" but these two work nicely right until the end.

Trish's previously mentioned heel-turn is also very well pulled off. Its believable (to a point, at least). Jericho gets elbowed by her after she comes down to "attack" Christian and he tries to help her and she "mistakes" him for Christian. Its great booking all the way. Christian takes it with a handful of tights. Jericho comes out looking strong, Christian couldn't do it cleanly and simply took advantage of an unfortunate "miscommunication". He didn't come out looking all that "strong". And in all honesty, he shouldn't have anyway.

But that's not it, here comes the big moment; Trish bitch-slaps Jericho and walks out with Christian. Although it isn't the biggest shock in the world (a lot of people were expecting it to happen anyway) it was pulled off very well as Jericho pulls off the "emotionally distraught" reaction very nicely. And Trish solidifies her turn up by making out with Christian on the ramp.

Good work from all those involved. And a good way to start off a top-twenty list.

#19- Owen Hart vs. Triple H (yes, THAT Triple H :))- Wrestlemania 14

I'm not going to be the crazy one who says this is the best match of Hunter or Owen's careers, because it really isn't, but what I will say is that these two were just on fire at WM14. Something about this match just "clicked". Sure, the buildup was your average "DX interferes in babyface's matches, drastic measures are taken to stop that from happening" shit we've all seen before- but the actual in-ring product is what makes it all worthwhile.

Owen and Hunter go full-out, non-stop for twenty minutes hitting crisp offense and coming up with some nice chain wrestling sequences to top it off.
As an example, Triple H goes for a Pedigree, Owen slingshots him into the corner, Owen tries a rollup and Hunter shoots him off, but Owen falls back down into an "inadverdent" low blow all in about a minute. Its great fast paced ring-work that makes me miss the days Hunter was actually motivated.

Owen of course, gets to show off his technical skills here. It really isn't anything we haven't seen before, but its still solid. Owen also sells an ankle injury nicely, although the match isn't really focused on that.

The end is also booked very well (expect to see that phrase repeated A LOT as I go through this list, by the way) as Chyna throws powder in Sargeant Slaughter's eyes (who she'd been handcuffed to for the majority of the match) and then low blows Owen allowing Hunter to hit The Pedigree for the win. Normally I'd be a little upset with a finish like this, but in the context of the match- with all these drastic measures being made to stop Chyna's interference- it made sense for her to be the prevailing force in Hunter winning.

Frankly its saddening that, with all the young guys WWE has to work with now, we never see a match without any restholds like this one. Learning to work a match that isn't marred with chinlocks and rear-headlocks should be a priority, not something you pick up if you can, but if you don't its not a big deal.

Cactus Lem
February 9th, 2006, 9:00 AM
Owen vs HHH is a match I've wanted to see for ages. I watched it about 5 years ago and really can't remember it. Hard nothing but good things about it though.

Dr.Success
February 9th, 2006, 6:34 PM
Top Ten Ring Work:
10.Gregory Helms
9.MNM(I count them as one person)
8.Undertaker
7.Paul London
6.RVD
5.Shelton Benjamin
4.HBK
3.Beniot
2.Kurt Angle
1.Rey Mysterio

ANT
February 9th, 2006, 6:36 PM
9.MNM(I count them as one person)

How do you do that?

Brian M.
February 10th, 2006, 12:18 AM
Mercury is clearly better in the ring than Nitro, so you can't really count them as one.

Cactus Lem
February 10th, 2006, 6:40 AM
Mercury is clearly better in the ring than Nitro, so you can't really count them as one.

I wouldn't say it's that clear. When I watch MNM I watch them as a team, I never really think about them as singles wrestlers, and therefore I can't see that either is better than one another. It's the same with when the Steiners where a team, I really could never say who was a better wrestler becasue they teamed so well together and where so simmilar.